Greenwood Park CofC Bowling Green Ky.January 29 2005 at 6:54 AM
|slipping away (no login)|
from IP address 18.104.22.168
Strange things that I read about on this site are starting here.The changes seem to be very fast.Help! May God destroy us for our apostasy.
|January 29 2005, 2:17 PM |
I looked at your web pages and read some of the "articles." Of course, it was the usual vacuity. That and philosophical "preaching" sets you up just as Amos and Isaiah warned Israel.
There are some MARKS you may want to watch out for related to cults and THE CHURCH GROWTH heresy. These can come on you UNSUSPECTING because increasingly shepherding systems use the Promise Keepers INFILTRATE and DIVERT. Because the system has intentionally put everyone into a COMA, you wake up AFTER the tanks have over run the Polish horse warriors in a blitzkreg.
One link is for CHURCH GROWTH which is HERESY and a denial of the work of God in Christ.
One of our returning guys wrote an article favorable of the Purpose Driven "CULT" and I notice that they have a Purpose driven CULT article on tap. You can plant and water but when you HIRE PROFESSIONALS (Youth, Involvement, Campus) to FORCE the increase you are off the deep end and you will never recover. DON'T GIVE THEM ANY MONEY. Our prodigal split the church and drove off more than a third of the church and the REST are uneasy. You will see "music, baptism diminished, bad mouthing those that FEED them and the heresy that the work of the church is WORSHIP." That, of course gives employment to their bonding buddies known throughout history as SORCERERS (fake) and therefore PARASITES. DON'T FEED THEM.
The next FLASHING RED LIGHT is Joe Beam's Family Dynamics.
Joe Claims for his book what God claims for HIS book. Joe CHARGES for his. Joe is also featured in the Grace Centered Magazine. There is no exception to the rule that they ridicule non-instrumental churches of Christ and promote the NEW STYLE which was young even when Nimrod used it at the Towers of Babbling.
The next one is Hope Network Ministries
Lynn Anderson promotes the old Discipling Dilema which is the Shepherding movement of Promise keepers. This is where small groups are discipled and you have to discuss and confess your financial and sexual dealings through the week. If you LUST with the secretary you will be DEALT with.
This will link you to Max Lucado's DISCIPLING program and Rubel Shelly's similar rhetoric.
You must watch out for the ENTERTAINERS who want to musically "bring you into the presence of God." Because all of the CHANGE PREACHERS can do nothing but Lie (and use Grace to cover up) about MUSIC AS WORSHIP, they will not tell you that there is no exception to the rule that such "performance worship" has always been a sexual thingy and homosexual urges. I can prove it.
There IS no law of SINGING or LAW OF GIVING: so, you have SNIFFED something and you need to try to identify it. Any radical changes are the effort to, as lynn Anderson proposes, DRIVE YOU TO THE BRINK. If they get opposition they will PULL BACK momentarily but give it a try. It took Lynn Anderson about 11 years before he could FORCE singing during the Lord's Supper.
Feel free to e-mail me or post what you are SEEING so we can better tell you what to watch for. Have you had the ZOE GROUP YET?
You are right!
|February 5 2005, 6:39 AM |
It all started during the lords supper on sunday morning.A screen with pictures like the passion came on and a solo was sung by a woman.This caused a concern and some families even got up and left.I wish the entire group had got up and walked out,but we are to week in the faith.
I also find out we recomend Hope Network,Family Dynamics,and Church center for growth,and we also have home groups.I am so blind to all the bad things.I do know our elders know what is going on here and I fear they would like our local group to charge into false things. I wish Wayne Coats were 50 years younger and standing right in the middle leading us to glory! God bless all of you in battle for the Lords side on this site.
God bless and hold you all up in what is right.
Confessing your sins
|February 8 2005, 11:22 AM |
I take from what you said Ken about "confessing your sins one to another", you are not a fan of the letter of James.
Re: Confessing your sins
|February 8 2005, 12:43 PM |
Often as not, the member will be required by a signed covenant to participate in so-called "accountability" groups. Here, they will confess all their sins to an accountability leader or partner. Is this Biblical? NO, but the "change agent" can justify it with their "new" Bible.
NIV-Therefore CONFESS YOUR SINS to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
NASB-Therefore, CONFESS YOUR SINS to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
CEV-If you have SINNED, you should TELL EACH OTHER WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. Then you can pray for one another and be healed. The prayer of an innocent person is powerful, and it can help a lot.
These versions support confessions to a priest. Now, look at what the KJV says:
KJV-CONFESS YOUR FAULTS one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
One word here makes a big difference. Faults and sins are not the same. The modern bibles lead me to believe that confession to "man" is required rather than to God and Him alone.
Re: Confessing your sins
|February 9 2005, 7:19 AM |
None of the text say nothing about confessing to a priest. That is you inserting something that is not there. That is a distorting of all of the texts. We are to be transparent with each. Any person who does this on a regular basis will tell you the tremendous freeing they feel by following the scripture based method. I think God had a great plan all along. Those that try to hide their faults or sins(really the same in this context) are only trying to be something they are not, and their pride is standing in the way of spiritual growth.
Confessing is not a CONfessional. See the diff?
|February 8 2005, 2:26 PM |
Let's make a parable:
Leader A gets found with the wrong lady in a nightclub. Well! We can tolerate six-pack Joe with LUCKY STRIKE worn in his left shirt pocket and even of a deacon with alcohol on his Sunday morning breath but LUST--if caught--is too hot to handle.
So, he goes to the Sunday morning ANONYMOUS CONFESSIONAL and has a note read: "IF I have offended anyone then I am sorry." That is type A confessional.
Type B is is where leader A gets caught and works it out with his wife as the ONE offended. If I said the "S" word in front of a fellow worker then I might try confessing to my friend whom I have offended. However, again the generic is "IF I have said the "S" word this week I want to say that I am sorry is the confession of choice.
Now, Type C as noted below, is a CULT practice where a "secret plant" who has been FACTORY TRAINED but pretends that he is one of the "guys" meets each Sabbath morn to ask Joe: "Joe, have you had any lustful thoughts about your secretary this week?" Joe says NO knowing that the secretary dressed so that he COULD NOT avoid lust (like a stand-up, preside-over Sister-singer or ambivalent males exercising Paul's AUTHORITY which is authentia both erotic and murderous.) The VIPER ADEPT known as friendly confessor secret advisor never breath a word type, literally threaten as in a REAL LIFE example: "Joe, if you don't confess to lust I am going to beat the hell out of you." So, Joe confesses and Viper Adept writes that down on Joe's STONE TABLET to be used IF Joe in the future REFUSES to perform enough WORKS to satisfy the MASTER ADEPT back in Denver. Ask anyone ever involved in the Cross Roads or International Church of Christ or the Promise Keeper's SHEPHERDING plan after they realized that soft-speak will not build a CULT, community church meaning a COMMUNE. You do know that the Tulsa group has always been strongly Cross roady and ACU has tried to bundly with the International Church of Christ. Rubel Shelly and John York has such a Jesus Proposal which must have been fleeced from some web site.
Lynn Anderson SPECIFICIALLY alludes to the Promise Keepers DISCIPLING or SHEPHERDING and specificially mentions exercising control over people's THOUGHTS. They seem to be SPRING LOADED toward ferreting out SECRET DIRT about sexual thoughts or money problems. These can be USED in future thought control.
James speaks ONLY of the OFFENDER confessing to the OFFENDED right there on the spot and DOES NOT promote a PUBLIC CONFESSIONAL. Erasmus wrote a lot about how the preaching monks played the CONFIDENTIAL CONFESSOR role but he knew that when ANYONE gets mad or does not get his way the PUBLIC will hear the DIRT in the next sermon couched in words which will not get himself killed but everyone knows the guilty party.
CHURCH is an ekklesia or synagogue or SCHOOL of the Bible: it has NO other role other than that of the ekklesia or any society which looked after its members. The CHURCH or EKKLESIA had no KING SET OVER US or a STANDING ARMY: the ekklesia met to hear the evidence and make judgment about the evidence. Then when an ASSEMBLY disbands after the Amen it has no ORGANIZATIONAL role until the next called meeting. While the SOCIAL GOSPEL seems appealing to those who no longer believe that Christ can FULFILL His will, it cannot be done without compromising the TEACHING of "that which has been taught" by the elders who are the ONLY, non-professional Pastor-Teachers of the local congregation. This was exactly Martin Luther and John Calvin's plea in their own RESTORATION movement.
This means that to be a TRUE church of Christ, the assembly has no structure or mandate to fabricate mind control cults. It assuredly has no FINANCES to hire a Discipling Minister as has Max Lucado. In the synagogue where Jesus READ the pulpit was to hold up the BIBLE: in cults the pulpit holds up the PULPIT minister. See the difference?
When the people assemble TO BE TAUGHT the STAFF INFECTION needs to keep their dirty, mercinary hands off trying to exercise control over their lives or PLANNING events to keep them from getting bored. I read Charisma Magazine in the doctors office this morning and people are AROUSED to this very fact and are simply OPTING out. I want to give them aid and comfort because Paul said that if we want to MEET Jesus we will have to go OUTSIDE THE CAMP. Furthermore, my commission is to tell them to quit listening to the SCAM about the LAW OF TITHING or the LAW OF GIVING. These new cults like to accuse non-instrumentalists of being LEGALISTS but THEY truly repudiate the notion that JESUS PAID IT ALL.
These GUILT loads are exactly the LADED BURDEN Jesud Christ died to remove to give us REST. REST is a highly-dedicated word in the Greek meaning among other things: Stop the preaching, stop the singing, stop the music, just STOP IT and 'let My people go.'
As long as the ACU guy promotes training "Prophets. Chanellers and Facilitators" to go out and MAKE the needed changes to peacable churches of Christ then I suggest that you spend your money on your family because THE LAW OF GIVING has no conscience if it deprives you of education or health care which makes you worse than an infidel. The same ENCHANTER or SOOTHSAYER endorses the feminist theology which depends on 'secret little acts of TREASON.'
If THEY have no need to KNOW then YOU have no God-planned need to tell them ANYTHING: I mean as in NOTHING! There is NO "spiritual" medicinal value in CONFESSING that you almost "fell in love with that beautiful black singer dancer---until your daughters chimed in: "Daaaduh! Heezzuh a Guuyyyuh!"
If you need confession on a therepeudic level then THAT is the Job of God in Christ and HE will not tattle on you. AND He will NOT send you a BILL!
Re: Confessing is not a CONfessional. See the diff?
|February 9 2005, 7:23 AM |
You seem to do alot reading between the lines where nothing is written. Could it be that it is your motives that need reviewing instead of those you condemn?
WHY we should not GET TRANSPARENT
|February 9 2005, 11:18 AM |
I didn't FEEL THE NEED for authority to respond
when I read the post: I have been permitted to TEACH "without a WAGE" from day one of this forum. I am the UNpaid Minister of Confession of the SINS of the "prophets, chanellers and facilitators" the ACU guy boasts about as he endorses feminist theology of "little acts of treason" to turn the church into a tribe of Gay Troubadors.
I looked at the POSTED problem church and saw the MARKS.
I explained--free of charge--some of the FRIENDS OF THE FAMILY who are all notorious rather than famous and directed you to what your "leaders" are leading you into.
YOU chimed in and suggested that I might not believe in JAMES.
I took that--naturally--to mean that YOU thought that James preached what I just REFUTED. You further speak of TRANSPARENCY. You were informed that these were FAULTS and not whether you thought the secretary was cute or that you SPENT too much for the new computer which was NONE OF THE BUSINESS of a Minister of Meddling or a "song leader" at $88,000.00 a year.
I didn't THINK that I was reading ANYTHING which was not made clear to all.
I warned--or should have--that those who CHARGE to be Father Confessors (that WAS the subject, remember?) will ALWAYS turn on you with gnashing teeth if you CROSS them.
Because I write TOO MUCH but not as much as a kilo-buck SERMON, you CONFIRM why I warn EVERYONE not to be TRANSPARENT to ANYONE who has no need to KNOW. "Tell it to Jesus, Alone" because SOMEONE is going to take regular DIALOG (which is the meaning of 'preaching') and GNASH as follows. You respond to friendly information which is WELL DOCUMENTED and boasted about with:
You seem to do alot reading between the lines where nothing is written. Could it be that it is your motives that need reviewing instead of those you condemn?
I DON'T PLAY the "but they have GOOD MOTIVES" pshchological violence: it is the ACTIONS which MAY be on its way to a GREAT LEAP FORWARD where Madison got caught SPREAD-EAGLED before the BLITZE KREG had been consumated. They GREW from about 3,000 (counting 325 in jail) to about 1,700 [counting 325 jailed]and if the LINKS define the LEADERSHIP your treasurer needs to look for another source of FLEECE.
Because I will NOT SUBMIT to cult-like control I guess I FAILED to get the FAMILTY authority to speak what I know to be the TRUTH. You do know that the Family of Gods (plural) or Community Church is defined by Shelly as a COMMUNE. NO individual has the RIGHT to read, interpret or SPEAK without the CONSENT of the COMMUNITY. I am NOT yet a CULTY so you have to fogive my taking the LIBERTY Jesus gave me to TEST THE SPIRIT and "go into all the world beginning in Kentucky." No whut i mean?
Rubel Shelly and John York: Just as identity in Christ is always COMMUNITY identity,
our reading of Scripture becomes a COMMUNITY READING as well. While we still have access to reading as individuals,
we stop asking, "What does this mean to me?"--as though there is such an isolated meaning. Instead we have a GROUP MENTALITY that asks, "What does this mean to US?"
Pick one of the following: Do I believe that Max Lucado got a VISION to add instrumental music and take CHRIST off the church sign? Do I believe in Lynn Anderson's HOPE through DISCIPLING or SHEPHERDING? Do I believe that Joe Beam's book can do what God says for HIS book? Do I believe that Rubel Shelly got NEW GLASSES (remember Joseph Smith as "peep stone Joe?) to get a NEW VISION for the church? Do I believe in LU (aka DL collete, aka DL university) John Mark Hicks (a leader in sanging teams) claim that the Lord's Supper should be celebrated as a SACRIFICIAL MEAL where God eats with us as we JUBILATE? Do I believe in Max Lucado's, Lynn Anderson's and Rubel Shelly's SHEPHERDING THROUGH DISCIPLING? If NOT then WHY does your CHURCH LEADERS endorse them and why are the LAMBS beginning to feel their FLEECE being PLUCKED and their BONES being CRAUNCHED when the SHEPHERDS are supposed to FEED the lambs and an HONEST minister obeys Paul's DIRECT COMMAND to Timothy the evangelist to WORK to support the HUNGRY as the MEANING of MINISTER which does not mean PAID MASTER.
Until I lie, cheat and steal about THE LAW OF TITHING or THE LAW OF GIVING to support those WHOM JESUS said 'take away the key to knowledge' YOU have no right to question my MOTIVES. THAT is why MY CONFESSION--made public about the PONZI SCHEMES fueling the NEW churches of Christ--was MADE knowing that SOMEONE probably on the dole--riding TANDEM on the backs of widows and welfare people--would TURN and bite.
See WHUT I MEAN? Huh? NOW, confession time: are YOU fleeching the lambs and craunching their bones? WHICH ones of the HERESIES you LINK to are the HIDDEN AGENDA with the proclaimed WARNING that you have to INFILTRATE and DIVERT until you are in a good financial position THEN you can spring it on the suckers that the property they INVESTED IN is PLANNED to become a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT. I sense that you have been GORED but you still have time to UNMOUNT the weeping WIDOWS if you are presently RIDING.
In the new HOSTILE TAKEOVERS the preacher relegates the shepherds to shepherding the MINISTERS whom Shelly says have the RIGHT to lead the church. The preacher is a HIRELING (if he is hired) and the RESPONSIBILITY rests squarely on the backs of the elders NOT to turn the preacher and a collected STAFF INFECTION to run rough shod over them. As Shelly abdicates the preaching role and turns to training PREACHERS he confesses that the elders put up with a lot as he wrestled with his CHANGE of theology. No one has the right to collect a wage as he radically changes a church of Christ into a Christian church or a Baptist church. There will be LESS hurt for the elders if they take the BULL by the horns and toss him out--quickly now!
What to do now?
|May 2 2005, 9:46 PM |
I do not think I am up for the battle that is starting.Is it best just to leave quietly?
Read this please, even you Ken!
|May 4 2005, 10:09 AM |
Please don't feel like you have to leave. I understand the frustration. Please do not allow people on this site to have a negative influence on you. You have to look at the life of Jesus not just the words of a some of the windbags on this site. Jesus was God's son and lead an amazing life. Are the things going on at your church against God or against your tradition. I undersand that I do not have the words or the time to write as much as Mr. Sublett. He will no doubt respond to this, but I must plead my case! Please before you leave your church go and talk with the elders. Have an open mind. Then if you still do not think that you can worship there then please feel free to leave. God will bless you in both places I am sure. I also ask that you do not use this website as barometer for the pulse of the Church. We have a great heritage and I hope that we continue down the path towards God. But I am not sure that this website and some of it more frequent guest are helping the church down that path. I think we will all benefit from a little less bashing and more care and concern. Remember the greatest commandment? Read through some of the post here and ask yourself if that is what God wanted when he created his church. Do these churches think and act as Jesus? How many homosexuals, tax collectors, and prostitutes do you find in church? Is that not who Jesus spent most of his time with? Lets work on that issuse before we bicker about musical instruments, praise teams, and women's role. Lets make sure we are feeding the homeless, taking care of the widows, helping the orphans before we fight over tradition. I think once we get our attitudes right with God, we will begin to see HIS church flourish and the rest will fall away. So please don't leave! God needs you to carry the flame of love to the people we have shut the doors on. He needs you think outside the box and realize that there are people out there that need Him and he has choosen you to carry His name to them. I hope this finds each of you well and God bless!
Ken read? Are YOU the guilty party?
|May 4 2005, 10:46 AM |
I THOUGHT that it was SOMETHING in the person's CHURCH! Didn't know that it was ME lying, cheating and stealing the church house to turn it into "a theater for holy entertainment?"
That is the old GUILT CLAUSE begun by Adam.
Clement of Alexandria: Pedagogue 1
For as the mirror is not evil to an ugly man because it shows him what like he is; and as the physician is not evil to the sick man because he tells him of his fever,-for the physician is not the cause of the fever, but only points out the fever;-so neither is He, that reproves, ill-disposed towards him who is diseased in soul.
For He does not put the transgressions on him, but only shows the sins which are there; in order to turn him away from similar practices. So God is good on His own account, and just also on ours, and He is just because He is good.
And His justice is shown to us by His own Word from there from above, whence the Father was.
For before He became Creator He was God; He was good. And therefore He wished to be Creator and Father.
And the nature of all that love was the source of righteousness-the cause, too, of His lighting up His sun, and sending down His own Son. And He first announced the good righteousness that is from heaven, when He said,
"No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; nor the Father, but the Son." [Luke x. 22]
This mutual and reciprocal knowledge is the symbol of primeval justice. Then justice came down to men both in the letter and in the body, in the Word and in the law, constraining humanity to saving repentance; for it was good. But do you not obey God? Then blame yourself, who drag to yourself the judge.
If you DO decide to leave you might tell smitty that KEN didn't drive you out of your own church. Furthermore, you should do your duty and tell the whole membership that the CLERGY is a big lie and the LAW OF GIVING is stealing food from your child's plate so the GUILTY can ride on your back and drive you up the wall with the universal image of perverted religionism. No, Jesus didn't have a ministry to the homosexuals: He CAST OUT more or less violently the MUSICAL MINSTRELS as one EJECTS DUNG. People are not always AWARE of what is happening but they get the urge to come out of Babylon.
|May 4 2005, 11:53 AM |
I expected more from you Ken! I want this person to know that they are loved and that they need to be open minded. Thats all. Sometime I wonder where you come up with some of the stuff you write. Thanks for the reply and I have no doubt that you are right in your proof texting!
Well, Well, Well
|May 4 2005, 12:22 PM |
Man you need to check what you say! Jesus did have a ministry to homosexuals, tax collectors, and prostitutes. He loved the unloveable. Read your bible, dude! Jesus is love. He never uses the language that you are using to show people error. Everything you write is filled with hate, why? Please understand you are turning so many people off of Christianity that I have to say something. Paul never speaks the way you speak to people, why do you do this?
2 Cor 5:16-6:1
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
We have a mission: to be ambassadors for the message of reconciliation. That does not mean we are sent to judge the acts of churches and people that we do not even know. "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them." How can you count the sin of men and churches if God is not even counting them. Ken, give me your theology of grace and how it applies to YOU (Just you, Ken Sublett, you, yourself, and you. Because in the end you are the one who has to answer for you right?) in your life.
Re: Read this please, even you Ken!
|May 4 2005, 4:05 PM |
While it's true that we are commanded to spread the Gospel to the lost and in a loving manner...we also must share the Gospel without adding to or taking away from the Authority...The Bible.
As far as being open-minded...the Old Testament...our history book and glimpse into God's nature as Christians ...is full of examples of what happened to the children of Israel when they were open-minded. God punished them.
okay let me say this
|May 5 2005, 10:27 AM |
How well are you doing sharing the gospel to the lost? Answer truthfully, because God will ask on the special day and you can't lie then!
|May 5 2005, 10:57 AM |
There is NOTHING I do or do Not DO which alters the Word of God one jot or tittle:
1 old man with 1 computer and the cost of the preacher's DUNKIN DONUT bill bonding with other dawdlers and working more hours than YOU, reports from March CONTACTS FOR CHRIST with untold EXORCISMS from music driving people crazy and the TITHING and LAYING BY IN STORE demon to my credit. They say, thank you, thank you thank you for TEACHING that REST means stop the preaching, stop the singing, stop the music, stop the polemical WARFARE, stop the stealing of widow's welfare check." "Now," they say, "I can REST without the weekly scolding and SPIRIT ABRADING and GUILT TRIP."
Piney.com Month of March 2005
Visits 94336Piney-2.com Month of March 2005 These are different files about 300-500k long
Page hits 338023
Average pages read per visitor 3.58
Page hits 89821
Jesus DIDN'T SEND me to BAPTIZE but preach the GOSPEL which means fundamentally: "Come to me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give your rest." And of the twos and threes--don't need staff infection-come learn of ME." THAT is the meaning of GOSPEL: freedom from pagan cultic religionism. If you baptize them BECAUSE they are already saved or to JOIN the church then you are doing mortal damage. My job is to make disciples so you guys can go to the weekly boyling show and tell.
The elders lied to the members
|March 24 2008, 3:08 PM |
The Elders fired the pulpit minister the other day. They announced to the church that he had decided to retire. There was no goodbye party or fairwell dinner. Just a severence package (and I am sure that there is a non competition clause attatched.)
Mr. Brummit at taught there for over 30 years and was still one of the few church leaders that I respected from Greenwood Park. I find it funny that the one week after firing Bill, the church had a sink hole swallow up part of the building. Maybe the Devil is coming up after the elders. They should not have lied to the congregation. They should have said that they did not like the conservative message that had been in Bill's messages the last few months.
Greenwood Park Church of Christ Bowling Green Ky
|January 5 2009, 10:29 AM |
In response to this message. Bill Brumit was a great man and a great preacher. The elders announced that they asked Bill to step down and half of the church did not fall in a sink hole. It was the over hang where you drop people off so they dont get wet walking into the back entrance. I think if you make comments on this site they should be truthful and not exaggerated.
|September 5 2012, 11:45 PM |
Sink hole? Where did you get your facts? There definitely no sink that swallowed up the building. LOL