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Texan
(no login)
66.76.8.42

RE: Let God Tell Us How to Worship

September 29 2012, 12:29 AM 

I challenge you to find me a "scriptural" worship service in the New Testament. It's not there, at least not how we do it. Read James 1:26-27 to understand what true religion is. Also, see Matt 25 about the folks that made it into heaven on judgement day. Not one word about any "authorized" worship service.

I was raised in the church of Christ; I know what it teaches. It is nothing more than another denomination of the Catholic church. The Communion we partake of is nothing more than a Catholic ceremony. If we did the Lord's Supper the correct way we'd be eating a meal and drinking wine. (with the alcohol still in it).

If the "authorized" worship service was important to salvation it would have been stated very clearly and leave no room for discussion. It's amazing that we argue about something that the bible barely mentions. There is just a lot of stuff it does talk about though. Stuff like how we are to conduct ourselves and how we are to treat our neighbors. How we are saved by grace. Those things are really hard for you old "hard-liners" to understand. I feel sorry for you, and I mean that sincerely. However, if you want to see a truly scriptural worship service, read 1 Cor 13 & 14. We might ought to be speaking in tounges and doing some phrophetizing like those folks did back then. Low and behold, we might even sing some solo's too when we meet. You guys leave out the part "if any man has a song, let him sing it". Now who's leaving out things?

Check out Romans 14 and see what it says about people having a difference of opinion about what is right and good! We are not saved or condemned by some ritual we do on Sunday morning. We are saved by grace, through faith. When we put on Christ it is not an act of submitting to some goofy set of rules about a "soul-saving" worship service. When we are baptized, we put on Christ and we strive to live as Christ would want us to live.

Finally, read 1 Thess 4:11-12...it goes something like this: Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, mind your own business, and work with your hands! Eccl 2 not sure what verse....Solomon said that there was nothing better for a man to do than to eat and drink and enjoy what his hands worked for. Sorry for the paraphrasing her...my bible is in the other room.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.121

Re: RE: Let God Tell Us How to Worship

September 29 2012, 12:31 PM 

Texan, you have posed several questions and I would like to spend some time and move the discussion to a new thread not connected to a given church.

Thanks

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
70.240.116.220

"PSALMS" - Understandest thou what thou readest?

May 5 2005, 9:00 AM 

"PSALMS" - Understandest thou what thou readest?


YOU GUYS HAVE REALLY GIVEN MEANING TO THESE 2 SCRIPTURES


1Co:1:19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1Co:1:20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?



This one goes out to all you out there who are trying your best to justify the use of the piano, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar, drums, flute, harp, saxophone, harmonic, pipe organ, kazoo, bagpipe, piccolo, violin, oboe (and whatever else you can come up with to play and entertain yourselves with);

(Including that guy who emailed me, here is your requested response)

This is for all you who are trying to stuff the right to play all musical instruments into one little teeny-weeny word;



PSALMS



Ok, here we go!

Re: Kimberly's response

Not one of you has addressed the definition of PSALMS. Look it up and let me know what you find and how you justify it.

You forgot part of the definition when you went on to explain this. Music can improve worship especially for those of us that cannot sing Music is also a universal language and when you have people in your congregation that are learning english, it informs and teaches to them as well.

You are so closed minded. On Sunday we did not use instruments due to reason other then yours, and it caused me to ponder. Not just anyone can get up there and play instruments, as well as not just anyone can afford them to learn on them. They are also big and cumbersome to carry at times. So maybe there were other reasons the early church did not mention the use of instruments as you seem to think, (Psalms are mentioned repeatedly but no one wants to address the definition) Maybe there was no mention because if God made it mandatory there would be many people who would feel left out because there was no one in there small church who could play. Come on people you are making this a salvation issue? Your language and the hatefulness in your hearts would concern me more if I were you.



Ok, let us look-up the definition of PSALMS;

Psalms - a sacred song or poem of praise, especially one in the Book of Psalms in the
Bible - Encarta Dictionary

Psalms - a book of the Bible made up of 150 poems and hymns to God, traditionally believed to have been written by King David: Encarta Dictionary


Nothing mentioned about any musical instruments in the definition found in this dictionary.

Now boys and girls, let us see how the word "PSALMS" is used in a sentence.



(And this time let us look at the verses VERY carefully.)




Eph:5:19: Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;



Speaking to yourselves in "PSALMS".



You know, I have heard a lot of musical instruments in my day, but I have NEVER
heard a musical instrument SPEAK to me, have you?

How can you come to the conclusion that this word "PSALMS" is defined as a musical instrument(s) in this passage?


Now let us look at the next verse;



Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in "PSALMS";.


Come to think of it, I have never known a harp or piano to TEACH me any thing either.


If I ever come to the point where a harp, guitar, piano or ANY other instrument starts speaking to me and teaching me, I will immediately go and seek professional help.


Musical instruments do not speak to you (or at least I hope they donot) or teach people in your congregation the English language like you stated above, and they definitely can not edify you.


(If your musical instrument is speaking to you or teaching you English, you just let me know and I will send you some references so you can get psychological help.




Re: Kimberly's response

1Pe:4:11: If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And to those he gives the gift of talent to play a musical instrument. that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I do not have a good voice. In fact it is terrible. I also have no talent in playing a musical instrument. I do have a gift of dance and if I use it to glorify God .... if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:



God also gives different people the talent to play football, hockey, baseball, basketball, ping pong, Donkey Kong, and so on and so on. Just because God has blessed us with a talent it does not mean we are to use it in a worship service to him (and I left out sword-swallowing, you have got to have a lot of talent to do that. Hey snake-charming, now that requires a lot of talent too!)

Now you like to dance for God. Well, Janet Jackson is a very good dancer; hey, and so is Madonna; and there is Brittany, and J Lo, and Michael. Hey they are all very TALENTED and GIFTED. Maybe you can invite them for service I am sure they would love to dance too. But do not try to tell them how to dance for God. They kinda like to do things their own way, sorta like you. (On 2nd thought, do not invite Michael I think he might be tied-up.)




I am sorry that you do not have a good singing voice; just do the best that you can
and hopeful God will understand.





Re: Kimberly's response

I do have a gift of dance and if I use it to glorify God .... if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:



I guess you consider yourself as the "Dance Minister". (Your congregation will probably be looking for one of those in the near future the way things are going now. You had better get some practice in for you can be ready for the auditions. Hopeful Michael J. will choose not to show up or you just might lose out.



Re: Kimberly's response

So did your church magically appear or was it constructed by the hands of men?


Ac:17:24: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Ac:17:25: Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;


You think that the Church is a physical building; don't you?

1Co:3:16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Honey. the Church is not a physical building.

If it was a physical building then how can it salute someone?


Ro:16:16: Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

If it were a physically constructed building, then how can a building be edified.

1Co:14:12: Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

I guess here is an example of a Constructed building coming together in one place!


1Co:14:23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?


We as members of the body of Christ make up the Church (or the Church of Christ) spiritually. Our bodies are the temple of God (not made with hands). Remember that God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ro:12:5: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another
Col:1:24: Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Col:1:18: And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


That is one reason why Jesus said;

M't:18:20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There is no need for Christians to meet in a physical building in order to worship God because we worship him in spirit. You can meet outdoors, in a home, or even under a tent. It does not matter, as long as you are worshiping God in spirit and in truth.


Re: Kimberly's response

Well we have all been taught many different traditions sir, so if it is in your heart not to use instruments then by all means you should not. You should not judge those of us that see it differently.



2Th:2:15: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.


This letter was written to the Thessalonians. This letter is not referring to the traditions that were taught to you by your parents or grand parents or great-grand parents. We are instructed to follow the examples of early Christians like the Thessalonians.

I am not judging you. The word of God is judging you.


Re:
You forgot part of the definition when you went on to explain this. Music can improve worship especially for those of us that cannot sing Music is also a universal language and when you have people in your congregation that are learning english, it informs and teaches to them as well.



And all this time I thought people were learning from the words (lyrics) of the songs.

Let us have a show of hands,


How many of us have learned English words by listening to a guitar or piano solo?

How many of us have been INFORMED or TAUGHT the gospel from a musical instrument solo?



Re:
You are so closed minded. On Sunday we did not use instruments due to reason other then yours, and it caused me to ponder. Not just anyone can get up there and play instruments, as well as not just anyone can afford them to learn on them. They are also big and cumbersome to carry at times. So maybe there were other reasons the early church did not mention the use of instruments as you seem to think, (Psalms are mentioned repeatedly but no one wants to address the definition) Maybe there was no mention because if God made it mandatory there would be many people who would feel left out because there was no one in there small church who could play. Come on people you are making this a salvation issue? Your language and the hatefulness in your hearts would concern me more if I were you.

Also none has given me any bible reference to the use of tuning forks, individual communion cups, pews, alters, ect... that you seem to find ok in your worship but are not mentioned anywhere in the bible. Help me understand this.




2Tm:2:23: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes
2Tm:2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Tm:2:16: But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Tm:2:17: And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Tm:2:18: Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Tm:2:19: Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.



I am not too concerned about hurting your feelings at this point. When Christians attack the Word of God and the Church of Christ with the ferocity that I have seen in your situation, I will take the spiritual Sword that God has provided us with and cut those ungodly opinions and philosophies that I have seen written above to shreds.
Nothing personal,
But I must do my Christian duty.




Heb:4:12: For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I must follow the examples that Paul was inspired to write:

Eph:6:10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph:6:14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph:6:15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph:6:18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph:6:19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph:6:20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


Let us recap the biblical facts, again:

1. God does not need, want, or even value our opinions on how to worship him. We are instructed to hear his beloved Son.
2. If we are to speak, let us speak as the oracles of God.
3. We are to continue steadfastly in the doctrine and tradition of the early Christians.
4. God is not to be worshipped with the hands of men.
5. God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
6. We are instructed to teach and admonish one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
7. All things should be done for the edification of the Church.
8. Mechanical Instruments can not edify anyone.
9. We are not commanded to follow the worship examples of an Old Testament Church; there never was one.


We should let God tell us how to worship God.

If you have any problems with these biblical facts then complain to God about them; I have only presented the facts so that the sincere in heart would be able to read and understand the truth. To all you who do not want to know the truth, who only want to have their own way with God's Church, I will pray for you.

Ga:1:9: As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Ga:1:11: But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.



Again, I will leave you with the WORDS OF KING JESUS.


Lu:4:4: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


In Jesus'name.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.80

Yeth, understandeth very welleth!

May 5 2005, 11:07 AM 

seekingtopleaseGodonly:

You said that so perfectly and in such good humor that I have decided to steal it and put my name on it.

Thanks, Ken

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.207.58.133

But We Need The Truth at This Place

May 5 2005, 4:45 PM 

But how can we recapture and put the Truth back into this congregation as well as many others that are being taken over by "community church" and "purpose-driven" deception? Obviously this is a problem all over the Bible-belt from what I read on this web-site. We need some of you bright people to come up with a common sense "how-to" stop this "junk" in it's tracks once it starts invading a congregation. Can you help us?!!!!!

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
152.163.100.68

Re: "PSALMS" - Understandest thou what thou readest?

May 5 2005, 7:20 PM 

Thank you for answering and so sorry you took offense. Still confused but that is ok. I really do wonder why Park Hill is being so cruelly attacked. The church of christ has been removed from the name and so has the association with Cofc. Seems a mute point for this web page to spend so much time on. But it has provided me with some amusement and I have studied scripture that I may have missed. I guess we will see in the end, I am just greatful that I am not bogged down by so much hate and mean spiritedness.

I will continue to live with the Joy of the Lord and pray that someday you too will find that peace and joy. With Him all things are possible.

God Bless and see you in the end.

Kimberly

Good news for you, I am done visitng with you on this. It has been intereting to say the least.

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
69.151.244.12

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

May 15 2005, 1:24 AM 

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

There are some who are asking for help on what to do when they suspect that their congregation is being taken over by the change artists.


First let me say that there is no easy answer. This situation is being carried out by a group of people in high places. The efforts and tactics of this organization seem to give meaning to these following verses:



Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.



Here are some things that we as Christians can do to fight the good fight of faith in this situation.


1. Pray

Pray for your congregation and all bodies of Christ that are facing this evil effort to overtake the Lord's Church. Pray that the Word of God will prevail therein. Also pray for guidance from above that God may lead us in the way that we should go.

1Th:5:17: Pray without ceasing.
1Pe:3:12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2Th:3:1: Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:


2. Study

We must study so that we will not be fooled by the subtle and deceptive ways of Satan; We must understand that Satan has attacked the Word of God from the beginning in his efforts to lead us away from God. By changing his Word(adding and subtracting from it) and enticing us with the vanities and pleasures of this world, Satan lures us into sin and disobedience.

Ge:3:1: Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Ge:3:2: And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Ge:3:3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Ge:3:4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Remember Satan is a liar, and those who are leading the efforts to take over Christ's Church are liars. Like in the passage above in many instances Satan begins with small changes (he only added one additional word to what God had said, the word not) and then builds upon these changes.

God cannot lie. When you find lies in these modern bibles (such as in M'r:1:2) than you know they are not of God. We must have the pure Word of God or we will be led astray. Utilize The Ultimate Bible Test (http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=187120&messageid=1114318811)
to prove the whether are not a modern bible is of God. God has provided us a way to test the spirits, whether they be of God or whether they be of a deceiver and/or an antichrist. You will see that these modern bibles cannot pass this test because they are not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

We must learn of him to be able to teach others of him, and in order to truly learn of him we must begin we his true Word.



2Tm:2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ac:17:11: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



We must study and study often so that we will be ready to answer and to defend the Lord's Church.

There are many, many web sites that are available to learn about the history of the Word of God.


Here are some links for educational study purposes on the history of the King James Translation (again these are only for educational purposes, I do not endorse any doctrinal statements of these sites):

Modern Bibles weaken God's Promise to Preserve His Word
http://aliveinchrist040801.tripod.com/nopreserv.htm

Your Bible questions answered.
http://www.chick.com/search/searchask/questionans.asp

ABOUT THE KING JAMES PAGES
http://www.holybible.com/resources/about_kjv.htm

Why should I use the King James translation?
http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/ans001.asp

INTRODUCTION TO THE TRANSLATION
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/transtoc.htm#toc

A Brief History of the King James Bible
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html

The King James Controversy:
A Biblical View
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/king.htm

"SPIRITUAL DECEPTION IN THE HIGHEST"
http://www.concernedmembers.com/spiritualdeception.htm

ANOTHER BIBLE ~ ANOTHER GOSPEL
http://watch.pair.com/another.html

Bible Version Issue
http://www.biblebelievers.com/BibleVersions.html

THE AV 1611: Purified Seven Times (interesting)
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance5.html

The New King James Counterfeit
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html


3. Teach

2Tm:2:24: And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;



Print or copy information that you think will be useful and discuss it with others who are seeking to please God.


4. Fight

1Tm:6:11: But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Tm:6:12: Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.


Stand up for Jesus. Utilize this site and any other means that you find appropriate to get the word out to as many as possible.

This corruption in the Church cannot survive unless it has the perverted modern versions such as the NIV, NASB, NKJV, and others to back-up its deceptive practices. This site is a powerful tool that can be utilized to inform the masses. Tell members of your congregation about this site and invite as many as possible to join in the discussions.


5. Preach

Preach the Word of God. Encourage others to stand up for God's Word and(his) Church. Rebuke those who continue to error in doctrine.

2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Jas:4:7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas:4:8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Eph:6:10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph:6:14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph:6:15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph:6:18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph:6:19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph:6:20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


6. Shine

Be a good example to others who are in your situation by letting your light so shine before men.

M't:5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
M't:5:15: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
M't:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

7. Do all in name of the Lord.

Never forget who we are fighting for; we can not fight this battle alone. We must enlist the powers from above and do all in the name of the Lord.

Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col:3:17: And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.




May God bless you all.

In Jesus name.


 
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David
(no login)
64.207.58.133

Re: Men and brethren, what shall we do?

July 30 2005, 9:17 AM 

Who are "these group of people in high places" that you refer to?

 
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Anonymous
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
69.151.250.151

Let us see the true love of Jesus!

May 22 2005, 10:09 PM 

Let us see the true love of Jesus!

There are some who think that Christians should not strongly defend the Church? They are quick to ask, "where is the love?" or they struggle to "Jesus in all of it", when Christians boldly defend the Church.

Well let us see the true love of Jesus?


Jesus loved Peter enough to correct him sternly when Peter was in error, even though he was only to trying to do a good deed. But Jesus called Peter Satan!

Was this a show of LOVE?

We must understand that sometimes what appears to be a good idea to us may not be within the will of God. This is why it is so important to study God's inspired Word so that we will know exactly what he wants us to do. (And I am not referring those corrupted modern version bibles that are confusing people by the millions. Those are not God's inspired Word.):

M'r:8:31: And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
M'r:8:32: And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
M'r:8:33: But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.


Satan will sometimes fool us by making something that is so contrary to the will of God seem to be such a great idea. So great that we will fight against those who are trying to correct us because we have become so spiritually blind. Then when that person has to resort to using a stern rebuke, we struggle to see Jesus in all of it. When we are spiritually blind it is very hard to see Jesus because we are walking in spiritual darkness.

Remember Jesus is LOVE!

So when you ask, "Where is the love?", please be able to know and understand what love is.

Now let us look at another example of the LOVE of Jesus;

M'r:11:15: And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
M'r:11:16: And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
M'r:11:17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
M'r:11:18: And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.


We see here in this situation that Jesus has walked in on those who were supposed to be taking care of the Temple. What did Jesus do? Did he go in and fall down on his knees and beg them to stop disobeying God's Word? What did he do?

He cast them out of the place and overthrew their tables!

Is this an example of loving one another?

What would Jesus do if he was to physically walk into your church service today? How would he reply to some of the post on this site if he was to log in and read some of things I have read?

If you are going to speak for Jesus you need to learn of him first. You need to learn his ways.

M't:11:29: Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

It is not a sin to be angry and sternly rebuke someone, especially when their words are being read by so many.

The Bible says:

Eph:4:26: Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

It also says:

1Tm:5:19: Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
1Tm:5:20: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Tm:5:21: I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Ti:1:10: For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Ti:1:11: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Ti:1:12: One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Ti:1:13: This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Ti:2:15: These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.


As I read some of the stuff being posted on this site, I feel like Jesus must have felt when he went into the temple and begin to overthrow the tables. There are a lot of tables that need to be overthrown on this site.

Yes, Jesus is Love, but the love of Jesus goes deeper than some of us understand at this point.

You see the love of Jesus in this instance can be compared to the love of a mother or father who must not spare the rod in order not to spoil the child.


Proverb:13:24: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
Proverb:23:13: Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Proverb:23:14: Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.



If we do not try to correct someone who is heading down a path of destruction, even if we know that this person will hate us for correcting them, can we truly say that we love them.

If you really love someone, than you will try to stop them from destroying themselves, even if they will hate you for doing it.

Just because we live under the Grace of God that does not mean that we can do whatever the heck we want to do in his Church!

That idea is just plain stupid!

There are some of us that actually think that the details of worshiping God" are not important. If you are of this belief than I would advise you to search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life.

If you want to do whatever you want in Christ's church then you just go right ahead. But I want you to know that you will have to answer for what you do in the End.

Joh:5:38: And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh:5:39: Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


I love the Church of Christ; I am not trying to be hateful, but sometimes the truth will hurt.

Sometimes it takes more than kind words.

Jesus said:
Lu:6:46: And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?.
M't:7:21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
M't:7:22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
M't:7:23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Joh:14:15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh:14:23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


This is the true Love of Jesus. He does not always spare the rod!

I will follow King Jesus.

Will you?


In Jesus name.


 
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Tough Love
(no login)
64.207.58.133

Must Stand Strong!

May 23 2005, 10:01 AM 

An earthly parents love for their child includes discipline and correction (along with love and grace too). If a child is using drugs (ie.instrumantal music, purpose driven church,so-called praise music,clapping,jumping around, other "drugs" that have come into this body of Christ) then the parent must practice "tough love" and not beat around the bush and hope the child gets off drugs. That is what alot of us are doing....hoping we can get rid of the "drugs" invading our churches and really DOING NOTHING to stop this destruction! Where are the soldiers? I see very few anywhere!

 
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seekingtopleaseGodonly
(Login seekingtopleaseGodonly)
70.240.90.36

Re: David

August 2 2005, 10:50 PM 

What Group of people?

Here is a passage taken from a link on this web site (CM): The Unholy Alliance - Christianity & The NOW.


I have only posted a small portion of the passage. Click on the link in order to read the rest of it.


http://www.rense.com/general20/unholy.htm


Council of 56 of the Religious Roundtable
Another Moon associated group is called the 'Council of 56 of the Religious Roundtable'. This group is made up of many of the same members from Rev. Moons' CNP and CRF organizations. It marries leading Moon associated evangelicals to the CIA, the Council for Foreign relations, the Trilateral Commission and Freemasonry. CFR, and TLC are closely tied to the Bilderberg group.


The list of members of the Council of 56 of the Religious Roundtable can be found here http://www.pir.org/gw/rrt.txt

GroupWatch was compiled by
The Interhemispheric Resource Center,
Box 4506,
Albuquerque, NM 87196.
http://www.irc-online.org/


GroupWatch files are available at http://www.pir.org/gw/Group:
Religious Roundtable File Name: rrt.txt
Last Updated: 4/93



Unity: A One World Religion?
In light of the ties between nearly all Christian "evangelicals" with Rev. Moon, the CIA, the Council for Foreign Relations, the Trilateral commission, the Bush family and Bush Sr's "New World Order", is it any wonder that after the September 11th tragedy, Billy Graham prayed in the name of God, AND ALLAH, as dignitaries from many faiths were gathered before him? This prayer was broadcast the world over. His call was for religious cooperation and 'unity of all faiths,' the trump of Rev. Moon.

Franklin Graham's (son of world renowned evangelist Rev. Billy Graham, and heir to the very lucrative and influential Billy Graham Evangelistic Ministries) answer to a question by NBC's Tom Brokaw, ..."it's very important that all the faiths, all the denominations are coming together, cooperating together, working together; it is a wonderful testimony to the spirit of America, and the dedication of the American people."

Moon also owns the Washington Times, THE conservative voice of the nation. Though this establishment should have gone under several years ago, Moon pours multi-millions of dollars annually into this paper. He also owns the publication "Insight". He indeed owns many businesses and operates in media of several nations worldwide.


Conclusion
What do Rev. Moon, leading Christian evangelicals and the American government have in common? And, just what does this have to do with the "New World Order," as (re)coined by George Bush Sr.? There can be no doubt that these dark elements of government, industry, banking, and intelligence are leading us into their new world order, and their influence has been extended to nearly every Christian in the world through these leading evangelicals who claim to represent Christ. Perhaps this Rev. Moon quote from August 4th 1996 may give us a little more "insight"...

"Americans who continue to maintain their privacy and extreme individualism are foolish people... The world will reject Americans who continue to be so foolish. Once you have this great power of love, which is big enough to swallow entire America, there may be some individuals who complain inside your stomach. However, they will be digested."

Could this be the 'falling away' of the Church so often preached by these same evangelicals? The great 'apostasy' which will, in the last days render much of the Christian Church faithless to their original calling and subject to the manipulation, will and prophesied plans of the 'Antichrist'?



Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.



In Jesus Name




 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.207.58.133

Done and Gone!

July 25 2006, 5:01 PM 

This church has gone totally away from the truth and we got out of there. Sad another CofC has fallen by the wayside....

 
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Todd Andrew Robinson
(no login)
162.58.0.60

Why?

August 3 2006, 1:09 PM 

This truly breaks my heart. Ken Sublett, you seem to be a man filled with hatred with a legion of hateful followers. Why must people treat one another like this? We of the church of Christ have confused doctrine and tradition with the Word of God. For some terrible reason we do not seem to believe that God extends grace to those who do not see our traditions as the Truth. We take pride in knowing the "Truth" and don't care to share it with anyone else. Why are we so hateful and self righteous? When did the church become a country club?
Also, I noticed some hatefuls remarks directed towards the Catholic church. You only say these things because you are unable to view the church of Christ as the denomination it has become. The church of Christ as it is has far more in common with the Catholic church than people care to admit.
Why do so many of you post anonymously? What do you have to hide if you are indeed proclaiming the Truth?
This is my first and last post. This site truly disgusts me. I do not care to visit it again.

 
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Chris Muller
(no login)
66.169.98.131

Fast Forward to 2012

February 8 2012, 6:33 PM 

I couldnt help notice how much time was wasted on fighting other Christians verses fighting the true enemy. If you dont like a particular group of Christians, simply walk away. Let His Holy Spirit guide you and guide others. There are many different ways to express your love to God through worship, some more comfortable to you than others. I know a friend that worships to God singing without utilization of instruments. I respect that, but that doesnt work for me. I love to hear horns and strings when I worship to God. My Christian friend respects that, but that doesnt work for him. We may never worship to God together anytime soon, however, this does not stop us praying together, studying together or our mutual belief that Jesus died on the cross for us 2012 years ago. We are both in agreement that whoever believes that Jesus died for them and accepts that Jesus is Lord would be granted access to Heaven for all eternity. When Jesus Died, He fulfilled the Old Law. To some, traditional belief is law. It is only by His Grace that we are given access to Heaven; to worship god for all eternity; not by traditional belief or law. To be a Christian is to be Christ Like. Would it hurt to show some grace towards other Christians, no matter what traditions they follow? The biggest battle anyone has to face is the battle of their own mind. The true battle is not of flesh, but a fierce spiritual battle. You can't see or hear these spiritual battles with your natural eyes or natural ears. Reading God word is important, but spending time with God praying and worshiping Him in your own way is more important. The closer you get to God, His Holy Spirit will reviling more and more truth all around. Although we are no longer accountable for following the Old Law, keep in mind there are consequences for all devious and cruel acts. There are also much blessings for those whom follow His path; inline with the direction of the Holy Spirit. Some may call this God's Favor. When you talk to God, ask Him for wisdom, guidance, and peace. And remember, no matter how bad life gets, never stop believing in Him.

On another note, I grew up as a Catholic since the 1960s and converted to Assembly of God in the late 1980s. I have been attending Nondenominational Churches since the 1990s. My family and I now go to Park Hill Church and love it there!! The praise and worship is perfect and the Holy Spirit moves without restriction. The "Church" are all wonderful people all with a common heart to sever God. Pastor David Myers and family are all wonderful Christians. They are doing more for the community than any other church in the area. Just last week, we ministered to over 100 homeless in Fort Worth by providing them food and Godly encouragement. What have you and your "Church" done for God lately?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.53

Christ outlawed vocal and instrumental rejoicing for the Church of Christ in the Wildernes

February 8 2012, 9:37 PM 


1. Jacob warned people NOT to attend the assemblies of the tribe of Levi.
2. The Levites volunteered to execute 3000 of their brethren because of musical idolatry at Mount
3. Sinai.
4. God then commanded the Levites to "stand in ranks" to execute any godly Jew who came near or into any holy place: these had not been commanded but imposed by God.
5. Saul, the first king Prophesied with the Philistines as a mark that God had abandoned Israel to the human kings to destroy them.
6. Saul would prophesy with psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:
7. To prophesy with musical instruments is The Hithpa'el of nb', in the ancient texts, refers to ecstasy and delirium rather than to the emission of a 'prophecy'." (de Vaux, Roland, The Bible and the Ancient Near East, p. 243 Doubleday prphta and prphtes , ae, m., = prophts, I. a foreteller, soothsayer,

8. This would TURN Saul into another man which means in Latin to pervert:

vrus Of animal sperm or semen, A. A poisonous liquid, poison, venom, virus (syn. venenum).
B. An offensive odor, stench, futile virus linguae, Sil. 11, 560: mentis

mto , be forced to leave, be driven from, (b). To differ, be different: c. To change for the worse; pass., of wine, to spoil, turn, adulterated, Plin. 12, 25, 54, § 122. D. To forsake, abandon, leave: mutare, derelinquere,

D-rlinquo , lqui, lictum, 3, v. a. I. In the class. lang., to forsake wholly, to abandon, desert castra, Liv. 39, 50, 5;

Castro , I. To deprive of generative power (both of male and female), to emasculate, castrate, geld. Make effeminate
B. Trop., to enervate, debilitate: castrata res publica morte Africani, weakened (a vulgar figure, acc. to Cic. de Or. 3, 41, 164; Quint. 8, 6, 15)


9. David and the COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY dedicated the Levites to PROPHESY withthe same instruments. To dedicate means that they--Levites and modern imitators--have no inheritance.>d-dco , A. Relig. t. t., to dedicate, consecrate, set apart a thing to a deity or deified person

Gal. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, et him be accursed.

-Anathêma , /, (anatithmi) A. that which is set up: hence, like agalma sing, play, dance, orchestra, votive offering set up in a temple 3. of a slave in a temple, a. poles devoted to this service by the city, E.Ion310.Cf. anathema.

Anathema is anything so sacrificed or devoted to the Lord and could not be redeemed (Num. 18:14; Lev. 27:28, 29); and hence the idea of exterminating was connected with the word. The Hebrew verb (haram) is frequently used of the extermination of idolatrous nations.


Like modern preachers and "worship teams" (blasphemy claiming to be Jesus Christ) who USE the Jacob-Cursed and Anathemated Levites as their "patternism they are slaves of demon worship (abandoned to worship the starry host at Mount Sinai) and they just FLEECE the lambs as Jesus defined the Scribes and Pharisees as Hypocrites and as speakers, singers and instrument players by Christ in Ezekiel 33."

H622 âsaph aw-saf' A primitive root; to gather for any purpose; hence to receive, take away, that is, remove (destroy, leave behind, put up, restore, etc.):--assemble, bring, consume, destroy, fetch, gather (in, together, up again), X generally, get (him), lose, put all together, receive, recover [another from leprosy], (be) rereward, X surely, take (away, into, up), X utterly, withdraw.

10. In all Biblical instances those who tried to silence the Word of God were "cast alive into the Lake of Fire." In Revelation 18 the speakers, singers and instrument players are UNDER control of the Babylon Mother of harlots.

They serve as "lusted after FRUITS" and John calls them SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world.
They, too, will be Cast Alive into the Lake of Fire.

11. ANY ONE who tells you that you can worship a Spirit God by stirring up the flesh violating all of the direct commands of God in Christis a liar and blasphemer.

12. No one can find any connection with music and the GODLY people God quarantined in the Church of Christ in the wilderness or remote inference that Christ ordained ONLY A school for DISCIPLES where any music is EVER used. They have no intention of "using one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning." They have no intention of letting Jesus Christ THE HOLY SPIRIT getting a word in edgewise. Isaiah 33 and 1 Corinthians 1 proves that there will be no PODIUMS or TAKING OF SHEKELS in the Church of Christ.

13. All recorded history says that the DEVIL is the source of religious music: Christ called Tyre "Lucifer as the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden." All history says that al musical singers are the HAREM OF THE GODS.

Never listen to a preacher who fabricates his own message: they don't have to be Bible students if they are good actors these days.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.141.53 on Feb 8, 2012 9:40 PM


 
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Anonymous
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209.193.57.229

Re: Christ outlawed vocal and instrumental rejoicing for the Church of Christ in the Wildernes

February 11 2012, 9:58 PM 

"Never listen to a preacher who fabricates his own message: they don't have to be Bible students if they are good actors these days."

Sounds like you need to follow your own advice, Ken.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.128.27

Synagogue

February 11 2012, 10:32 PM 

Perhaps you didn't know that Christ the Rock ordained The Church of Christ in the wilderness as Qahal or synagogue: Stephen called it the Ekklesia.

That was both INCLUSIVE and EXCLUSIVE. That never changed even as the Synagogue was more widespread after the RETURN. "There was no praise service in the synagogue" and it never happened until 1815

God sent Jesus of Nazareth to annul the Law which was always the enemy of the godly people quarantined from the temple.

After putting that down, Jesus now The Holy Spirit is king and High Priest over His church or Kingdom. Baptism makes the difference because it asks for A holy spirit or A good conscience so you can READ the word and UNDERSTAND it when it is spoken without changes.

http://www.piney.com/Synagogue1.html

John Calvin understood that and called for A RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST.

http://www.piney.com/Calvin.Numbers.10.html

If you listen to self-speak sermons by sons of the Devil says Jesus or listen to effeminate praise singing--the world's OLDEST superstitious rofession--intending to keep God from failing--again--then you are bowing to baal and I solemnly warn you that you can't find a Church of Christ tomorrow.

All early scholars knew that and the Campbells MOMENTARILY restored

Church is A School of Christ
Worship is Reading and Musing the Word (in the heart)

That lasted until withing my memory but in these last days Jesus would ask "Shall He find faith when He returns?" The answer is almost none.


 
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Brian Cade
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132.79.9.16

Re: Synagogue

February 12 2012, 6:57 PM 

"Eat, drink and make Mary.

Ken"

Seriously?

 
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ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.65.87

Wine, Women and Sex: that's charismatic religion

February 12 2012, 7:31 PM 

The phrase "eat, drink, and be merry" was part of a religious ritual common throughout the region--

"The traditional founder of Tarsus was Sardanapalus, who was worshipped, along with Semiramis, with licentious rites which resembled those of the Feast of Tabernacles. Paul had probably witnessed this feastival, and had seen, at the neighboring town of Anchiale, the statue of Sardanapalus, represented as snapping his fingers, and with the inscription upon the pedestal, 'Eat, drink, enjoy thyself. The rest is nothing." (Vincent, p. 278)

Such a man also was Sardanapalus, whom some call the son of Anacyndaraxes, others, of Anabaraxares. Well, Arbaces, a Mede by birth, and one of the generals of his realm, entered into an intrigue with a eunuch named Sparameizes to obtain a view of Sardanapalus, and the king reluctantly giving his consent, an audience was permitted him; when the Mede entered he saw the king with his face covered with white lead and bejewelled like a woman, combing purple wool in the company of his concubines and sitting among them with knees uplifted, his eyebrows blackened, wearing a woman's dress and having his beard shaved close and his face rubbed with pumice (he was even whiter than milk, and his eyelids were painted), and when he looked upon Arbaces he rolled the whites of his eyes; most authorities, including also Duris, record that Arbaces, outraged to think that such a person should be their king, stabbed him to death

from: The Egyptian Way of Death, Mummies and the Cult of the Immortal, Ànge-Pierre Leca, Translated by Louise Asmal, Doubleday, 1981 (1979) (1976 French).

'But although death was very important to the Egyptians, life was considered to be more desirable. One sage of the period advised: "Enjoy your days. Delight your nose with balm and sweet perfume, offer lotus garlands to your wife to adorn her arms and neck. Let her whom you cherish be seated at your side, and let singing and music delight your ears. Cast care from you; think only of your pleasure until the day comes to enter into a world where silence reigns....For you must understand that no-one can take his worldly goods with him, and no-one has ever returned after his departure." The worst fear though was that the corpse might be destroyed, which would also destroy its chance of eternal life. "Die not a second time" was written hopefully at the bottom of some coffins.' [xvii].

Clement of alexandria Out of Church.

"Such ought those who are consecrated to Christ appear, and frame themselves in their whole life, as they fashion themselves in the church for the sake of gravity; and to be, not to seem such-so meek, so pious, so loving. But now I know not how people change their fashions and manners with the place. As they say that polypi, assimilated to the rocks to which they adhere, are in colour such as they; so, laying aside the inspiration of the assembly, after their departure from it, they become like others with whom they associate. Nay, in laying aside the artificial mask of solemnity, they are proved to be what they secretly were.

"After having paid reverence to the discourse about God, they leave within [the church] what they have heard. And outside they foolishly amuse themselves with impious playing, and amatory quavering, occupied with flute-playing, and dancing, and intoxication, and all kinds of trash.

"They who sing thus, and sing in response, are those who before hymned immortality,-found at last wicked and wickedly singing this most pernicious palinode (ode to retract their church song),

"Let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die."

"But not to-morrow in truth, but already, are these dead to God; burying their dead, that is, sinking themselves down to death. The apostle very firmly assails them. "Be not deceived; neither adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers," and whatever else he adds to these, "shall inherit the kingdom of God."

 
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AM
(no login)
151.213.181.62

Re: Christ outlawed vocal and instrumental rejoicing for the Church of Christ in the Wildernes

March 3 2012, 7:54 AM 

The best difference with between Ken and the Preachers that fabricate their own message, is that Ken does not pass around a collection plate to cover his salary.

Church of Christ ministers have become a joke to what Jesus was all about. They truly side more with extorting the knowledge of Jesus, much like Judas.

Show me One church of Christ that serves people, the youth, the singles, the worship, the children, out of just pure love, without any involvement of a salaried employee. You can not.

You comment and advice to and about Ken is worthless.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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