Now the Park Hill Church of Christ in Fort Worth, Tx. has become the "Park Hill Church-A Christ-Centered Fellowship"!Wonder where that came from? They went to recorded instrumental music then praise teams and now acapalla and a Prasie band! These folks came out of the Southside congregation about 8 years ago and look where they are now! What exactly is the Southside church spreading around?

From your message I cannot tell whether you are for Parkhill or against it? Have you even been there? This is a church that has freed itself from the baggage of "man-made" legalism and had chosen to focus on the fact that each of us can be saved by Grace. I get so frustrated by those of you that can't seem to grasp the concept that YOU have nothing to do with your salvation. You didn't earn it - You can't buy it - and you certainly can't get it by listening only to acappella music, taking communion every sunday, and making sure the top of the head actually got submerged. I invite you to come visit.

We are just concerned about how this church has been taken over by folks like you. I am not closed minded or legalistic. They should have not abandoned the Biblical name and the biblical way to correctly worship. I understand they are letting anyone into fellowship without any tests of faith too..

Sounds like the beginning of the end for this group of "Christians". It is so sad to see liberal, progressive, purpose-driven apostates destroying the Church of Christ. You are to be pitied and prayed for because you are blindly following corrupt leaders. Probably, someone that is involved has something to gain of a material nature. Book sales boom when another Church of any faith is suckered into this whirlwind. Apostasy is certainly condemned in the Scriptures so this cannot be called "judgemental".

The Hohenwald Church of Christ in Hohenwald, Tn began this downhill climb a few years ago, slowed down when their sneaky, perverted changes were discovered, reversed a little and now is gaining momentum again. One of the "younger" preachers of the congregation is now preaching in demominational churches while remaining active in the congregation. Wonder if it is the money? Sometimes a little extra cash is tempting.

There are so many churches that are now apostate and I don't quite understand what hope you have in light of the cost, both in loss of Godly, sincere christian men and women and in the loss of respect in your community.
Jesse

Sorry, What"s your problem. My reference should have been to anonymous. He/she is the one lacking a proper understanding of the scriptures.
Jesse

You are a sad case of "feel good" church...need to get back into the Word brother! I will visit there next Sunday and see exactly what is going on but I think I already know!

as opposed to a "feel bad" church? I'll take the feel good church.

If you worship in spirit and TRUTH you will not "feel bad" but righteous through Christ who instructed how to worship correctly. Who are you worshipping (?) Mr./Mrs. "Feel Good"? Get back into the Word and learn how to correct your wayward ways.

Anonymous
How in the world can you discern whay I believe from the statement "as opposed to a "feel bad" church? I'll take the feel good church." How does that statement make my ways wayward? Whew!

Ok I went to this church today (you invited me) and some Holy Spirit "expert" was teaching the adult class on the Holy Spirit. Said he was an attorney and former Highland CofC (Abilene) preacher many years ago...Chalk... I think. Very articulate guy and knows the scripture well but I had never heard that the Spirit leads us to do all that! The worship service used a "praise BAND" and acapella singing with a praise group miked up front. Some people clapping and twirling around and yelling praise words! Is this type of stuff going on EVERYWHERE???? The lesson was very Biblical..on the entry of Jesus to Jerusalem for the final time. Lord's supper was very Biblical. And the people there seemed to be happy and joyful and truly full of worship. I think I will give it another try next week but I hope some leaders at this place will come to their senses and get back to the correct and true, bible based worship.

I am really glad you visited Park Hill and took notes. I just wanted to invite you back and request that you get to know some of the folks that worship there. You might be surprised how many likable people are there. We love visitors and would welcome you back in a heartbeat, just give us a chance to get to know you. We admit that we don't have all the answers and never will but we are doing our best to create a forum for people to meet the Father face to face and have their lives changed by his work.
Please introduce yourself to the youth minister at Park Hill, I bet your conversations could be lively!
I will look for you on Sunday! God bless you as you continue to seek His will in your life!

If you have nothing to do with your own salvation then, conversely, the lost really have nothing to do with their unsaved state - they're not really responsible since "who can stand against God?" This entire line of reasoning falls right in line with the popular secular view of the day which says our mistakes are actually the fault of someone else. Imagine if that someone else is GOD!

The reformed theology must logically conclude that God must be the originator of sin, since he is responsible for everything. Think it through, friend. It is not "the most God-honoring theology", as advertised.

It appears someone never took a logic class. You cannot argue the converse of a statement. It is not true. Which is the point you were making. But its irrelevent. A converse by definition can be true, but does not have to be. Perhaps taking a course in mathmatical logic would aid your cause in making informed, intelligent Biblical arguments.

For those in our fellowship who have obviously been taught only one side of the 'saved by grace' - without the understanding of 'saved by grace through faith' concept -, please invest a few dollars and a few days with this book: Chosen But Free, A Balanced View of Divine Election (Bethany House, 2001) Incidentally the author isn't C of C, and this isn't some old book from the 1950's.
On page 24 he gets right to the point, referring to extreme Calvinism: "...here is the unmistakable conclusion: both Lucifer and Adam sinned because God gave them the desire to sin...(p.25) What is more, if evil actions have no cause, then no one can be held responsible for them. But both good moral reason and Scripture inform us that free creatures are held morally responsible for their choices."
(p.48)...extreme Calvinism...involves a denial of human free choise, which is supported by both Scripture and good reason. Second, 'irrestible grace' on the unwilling is a violation of free choice. ...Third, (it) leads logically to a denial of God's omnibenevolence (all-lovingness) (see I John 4:16 and John 3:16) In fact, if God is one indivisible being without any parts, as classical Calvinists believe, then his love extends to ALL of his essence, not just part of it. Hence, God cannot be partly loving."

Please read some of the other side, brothers, before you purchase this misleading 'package deal.' It's not 'all glory to God' when it makes God the originator of sin and inconsistent with what he reveals about himself in the Word.

Brother..Sounds like you have some serious issues with the Biblical way to worship and with salvation.A through study of the Word will correct your "community church" view of the important issues. You are being mislead at this CofC that has left the faith and adopted this PurposeDriven slop that has perverted the Truth at this place. I suggest you contact a man GROUNDED IN THE WORD...several good Churches of Christ in the FW area....and let him correct and teach you the Way in love.

I was just wondering if you had ever talked to the preacher at Park Hill Church, A Christ-Centered Fellowship, you might be delighted at his background and his heart for the autonymous body that meets there!
Just a suggestion from a concerned member!

Go ahead and depart from the Bible ways. Just do whatever you want to do.
It doesn't bother me to be called a "legalist." I would much rather be accused of following God's Word on judgement day than to have the Rubel Shelly mindset that the Bible just needs to be skimmed over for the main ideas and the rest is up to you. I believe it is written in detail for a reason -- God intended us to follow it just like a recipe. If you want to make dressing on Thanksgiving, go ahead and add a can of turnip greens to the recipe and triple the amount of sage. Serve it to a Medieval King and see if your head doesn't go to the chopping block!!!!

It is not remotely possible to deliberately REMOVE the name of Christ without being ashamed of the name. The church of Christ is:

Ekklesia (g1577) ek-klay-see'-ah; from a comp. of 1537 and a der. of 2564; a calling out, i.e. (concr.) a popular meeting, espec. a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.


Ek meaning out of and:

Kaleo (g2564) kal-eh'-o; akin to the base of 2753; to "call" (prop. aloud, but used in a variety of applications, dir. or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur-) name (was [called]).

Jesus was speaking of the Apostles but stating a general principle that the assembly is to GIVE HEED and to affirm with one mind and one mouth "that which is written." Then He promsied:

For where two or three are gathered together in MY NAME, there am I in the midst of them. Matt 18:20

IF you are not gathered in HIS name then HE will NOT be there: too bad, too sad but they have DISinvited Him as proven by THE MINISTRY which repudiates Christ's sole teaching role through spoken Scripture

Gathered is:

Sunago (g4863) soon-ag'-o; from 4862 and 71; to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; spec. to entertain (hospitably): - / accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.

To be the CALLED or the ELECT means that we are invited to assembly or synagogue with Christ. The body or Ekklesia or church which gathers or synagogues is the church or synagogue of Christ:

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Col 3:15

Let the word of Christ [Spirit or "that which is written"] dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Col 3:16

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. Col.3:17

It is a fact that those who refuse to have the name of God in their mind have no intention of speaking the WORD OF CHRIST. Therefore, in the name of common decency it is good that they remove His Name.

The BODY of Christ is the church: therefore, the body must assembly in the name of the HEAD of the body: the church of Christ:

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col.1:18

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:23

If you DENY Christ by removing HIS title the HE promises to DENY you. My studied opinion is that removing the name is a MARK that Christ has taken the initiative, removed the candlestick and therefore supernaturally REMOVED His Name. Remember that He sends strong DELUSIONS to the deluded to make them feel SUPERIOR at having removed His name.

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. Matt 10:32

But whosoever shall DENY ME before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matt 10:33

Again, removing the name is wicked hands beng MANIPULATED by Christ to VERIFY to the community that He has DENIED THEM and taken away their ACCESS.

It hurts when we see people deliberately removing the name of Christ so that they can INFILTRATE into people's minds without openly revealing ANY devotion to Christ. Because the world is hostile to the name of Jesus Christ those who seek to build temples are treacherous thinking that they can 'save more souls' while trying to fool the contributors. That is why they will STEAL from a widow's welfare check.

However, this is just the way it is: the majority will be lost and the saved will be a tiny remnant. However, God will not punish people until they are confirmed in their belief. Therefore, we are witnessing God's agents sorting people out according to the MARK they have received. Watching "good old" blind people stumbling into the ditch hurts but part of the glory of God is that the faithful will watch and judge those who are being moved beyond redemption.

They want to make peace with the world to guard themselves against persecution:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34

THEY are changing their name to MAKE PEACE with the Baptists. At the same time the Baptists are changing their names to MAKE PEACE with anyone with a widow's mite which was ACCEPTED by the priesthood just as Jesus was promising to DISMANTLE the den of thieves and house of merchandise stone by stone. I suggest that attempting to FIND FRIENDS in all of the wrong places MAY be the meaning of crying out for the MOUNTAINS to hide them from the WRATH they know they have coming.

In all of the churches--from most religious groups--where people rejoice in being deceived, the result will be the break up of friendships and even marriages. We know that it happens and the changlings conspire to get wives to divorce their husbands to remove his discording influence.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Matt 10:35

And a mans foes shall be they of his own household. Matt 10:36

He that loveth father or mother more than me is NOT WORTHY of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

I know of a church where an elder loved his delinquent son more that Christ and all of His Body. You will remember that Paul told the Corinthians "Your assemblies do more harm than good." One problem was that they forgot that only CHRIST died for them. The SECRET is don't give them any more of your money and thus sin against the DESTITUTE to whom Jesus gave the ONLY right to our pension money. They will steal it and laugh behind your backs.

Paul said that the faithful will have to SEEK (worship) God OUTSIDE the city or camp. That is out where Christ suffers reproaches and the faithful WILL BE persecuted. Therefore, don't believe the psychological violence that you OWN them the rust off one red penny. Spread the word: there is NO LAW OF TITHING and NO LAW OF GIVING other than those WHO PROSPERED are to help those who ARE DESTITUTE. You will be sinning if YOU divert your ALMS from the poor to support some wimpy guy who believes that a certificte from ACU as what Carroll Osburn calls "Propets, Chanellers and Facilitators" to LIE about Scripture because assuredly they neither love nor know the Word as it has been taught. They have been LEARNED as rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and msicians whom the Greek world knew as SORCERERS and therefore PARASITES. If you QUIT feeding them the dishonest traffickers will get a job selling used computers and the honest evangelist can be called back. FREEDOM in Christ means FREEDOM FROM what is happening in institutions which ARE NOT churches of Christ.

Ken

Ken, if you are suggesting what I think you are suggesting you might want to come on by and give Park Hill Church, A Christ-Centered Fellowship a visit like our friend "anonymous" did. We would love to read your barometer on the situation there too! Plus, we just love having visitors because most of the people who visit Park Hill end up becoming a part of the family. Come on by and see us before you make any more rash judgements about whether God is at work through the body at Park Hill. I don't even know you and I already love you! (-:

What, exactly, is your point? Are you on this web page asking questions about the Park Hill Church because you are genuinely seeking to save lost people in the Fort Worth area or do you have another intent? Are you engaging in this ongoing conversation for the good of someone, yourself, a brother or sister, or do you seek out those who are seeking the Father in a way that you are not comfortable with so that you may exploit their "intentions" in worship and sit in judgement of their motives? If you are out to draw someone closer to the Father by bringing attention to the things going on at Park Hill, then I applaud your efforts and I pray that God bless you as you work for His kingdom. However, if you are out to create dissension amongst the brotherhood in the city of Fort Worth and the metroplex I would beg you as a brother in Christ to consider your ways carefully. "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." (Titus 3:9-11)
Our motives should always be driven out of a love for Christ and a love for His creation. We have one call that is simple, plain and to the point. To seek and save those who are lost! The Park Hill family has seen some 12 hungry souls come to a knowledge of Christ over the last few months and those same souls have commited their lives to him through confession, repentance and baptism. They in-turn have brought approximately 7 new families into contact with the saving message of Jesus because of their young faith. Park Hill is growing and very much alive because of the hand of our Father who is drawing lost souls to himself through the interaction of the family at Park Hill wherever they go. Through the schools, Aledo High School, Southwest Christian School, Arlington Heights High to name a few and through the companies and businesses where our body works and interacts on a daily basis.
Now, please brother, I emplore you. If you have something good, encouraging, uplifting, true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy to say then let it be heard and if you don't then please keep your mouth (keyboard, mouse) quite.
If you seek to show Christ through this situation, let me remind you that love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails! Be Christ in this situation. Stop slinging mud on the face of Christ that is revealing itself in a powerful way through the body at Park Hill and effectively meeting the needs of the lost in this city.

A lot of good things/happenings are being said about the Pope of Rome this week but it doesn't make it correct Biblically. Just because you use extracted "proof texts" to support your positions does not make it Biblically correct. You must be opposed (and corrected) in love with your error. Get with a Bible-knowledgeable person...grounded in the Faith and learn how to worship and teach Biblically.

anonymous, you obviously know the infallable truth about God's word and the only and correct ways to worship and I am an ignorant youth who is truly seeking to know how to reach out to God through worship, so would you please be willing to share with me what I have done wrong and how I might make myself right before my Father? I know it will take a "well-grounded" man who is knowledgable of scripture and I am honestly seeking to do what is right so please respond and let me know what I can do to be more biblical in my worship. Please don't judge me yet, I am still learning! Thanks for caring enough to respond!

It is better and more Bibically correct for "anonymous" to expose error and get you and others back on the Narrow Way than to take any credit for myself. I can see you and others are having to think and struggle with the error that is occuring at this place and move from the "feel good" way you have apparantly bought into. Are you just another community type church now? Sadly it appears so...What have you done with the candlestick?

I am amazed at the boldness of some of you people. Actually the lack of it. It is very easy to say horrible things in reguards to something you obviously know nothing about and remain anonymous. Rest assured your secret judgement is known by One who knows all and with whom ultimately is the only One who matters.

I would like to thank you for your comments because I believe God will use this web page to bring more people to Park Hill and give them an opportunity to see Gods love first hand. So go ahead and speak your mind behind the curtain of anonymity. Those that speak the truth are not afraid to show their face and use their name.

I want to thank John David Myers for his incredible responce to the ignorant messages posted on this page, he truly is a representative of what The Park Hill Body represents and we are ever so grateful for him and his family and the work they do.

below are a few of the letters I have recieved from parents who my children have brought to Park Hill. Let me share these with you

Dear Kimberly,

I wanted to write and let you know how much of a positive influence Jon Myers and Park Hill Church has in Katie’s life. Katie, being a typical 16 year old, is busy with all aspects of her life at this time. She is very determined to do things on her own and not be influenced by our thoughts or direction. Since she began going to Park Hill Church last year she has found a place and people she feels very comfortable and at ease with. She began just going to Wednesday night youth meetings but now doesn’t want to miss Sunday services or Wednesday nights. Jon and Amy have made Katie feel she is a part of Park Hill Church, where she wants to go and wants to learn more of the Word of God.

At such an impressionable time in Katie’s life, I am very happy that she has found someone like Jon Myers who gives her positive guidance not only in her spiritual growth, but everyday life in general. She feels very safe and at ease talking with Jon and Amy. I am very happy she found Park Hill Church and grateful to Jon for what he has brought to Katie’s life. I would also like to thank Joe, Mike and you for introducing her to Jon and the people at Park Hill.

Sincerely,


Becky

Kimberly,

I want to let you know how glad I am that Mike has gotten Tyler involved in Park Hill Church. I asked Tyler why he didn't want to go to our church anymore and he said it was because he liked the youth group much better at Park Hill. He said the youth minister, John Myers, teaches about God and the bible at a level he can understand. John makes it interesting. It was a battle to get Tyler to go to church on Sundays before, but now that he attends Park Hill he wants to go on Wednesdays as well.

I know that a good teacher makes his students want to learn more. Recently Tyler asked if I would buy him a new bible. Of course, I was thrilled to do so, and even more thrilled when I 'caught' him reading it. I know that John Myers is the reason for his interest in learning and following the word of God.

Please let John know how much the our family appreciates him!

Eileen


Does this sound like the work of an evil ministry, or is this the purpose of the church, to bring the lost to know God? I am proud to say that my family belongs to this incredible body of people and thank God they are a nonjudgemental group of loving caring praying approachable and spirit field believers. I invite you to join us on Sunday and see for your self first hand. Or are you afraid Park Hill is really what you are looking for but would be judged by your family and Church of Christ piers? Fortunate for me I know that God and God alone is my judge and it is not my business to tell someone else where they stand in the eyes of God.

Kimberly Hardick

I just want to say a hearty AMEN! to what you had to say Kimberly. There is but one judge and he is the only one who truly knows the heart of an individual or the heart of a group of people who meet in His name and worship him in Spirit and in Truth.
I wish Mr. Anonymous would share his true identity with us because you are right, it is really easy to judge someone over the computer because there is no face to put with the name. Why would someone keep himself shrouded in secrecy if he is really a "concerned member" of Christ's body.
I think I remember correctly (I could be wrong, because I don't know the Bible very well) that there was a certain group of people that Jesus detested when he walked the face of the earth. A group of people that he even referred to as a "brood of vipers". A group of people that made it their business to go about wearing their felactories proudly, dressing themselves in the nicest of clothes and making sure that the bottoms of their robes were completly coverd with tassels, not because they wanted to please God or draw the lost to Christ but because they wanted everyone to look at them and think "wow, those guys must really have it all together and never do anything wrong" all-the-while thinking horribly judgemental thoughts, pointing fingers at the "common folk" who were just fumbling their way through their spiritual journey and enforcing rules that were never intended to be rules in the first place.
I get the feeling (just between me and you) that this website smacks of some modern-day Pharisee-ical views. I sure wish I knew who "anonymous" was so that we could talk about this like men, I mean face to face or even if we didn't talk, maybe he could just introduce me to someone who is really knowledgeable about scripture.
Evidently in a forum like this it is not legal to just pop-off with 'scriptural proof texts that prove my points' about the necessity for love in all situations, so from now on I won't direct my scripture references to "anonymous" but rather to you or some of my other brothers and sisters in Christ that worship at Park Hill Church, A Christ-Centered Fellowshp.
I would like to leave you with this, Kimberly, "The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. Each one of you should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. If anyone speaks (types), he should do it as one who is speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength that God provides, so that in ALL THINGS God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
I love you Kimberly and look forward to your response!

Yes, sister, preach on: if the CHANGLINGS have stung you like the Locusts (musical performers) then you can stand in the HOLY PLACE pretty soon. Remember that the Holy Place was a carnal type of the body or church of Christ. No singer, musician or preacher could enter without being executed. The Holy Place was the synagogue (beginning in the wilderness) for the PEOPLE'S CONGREGATION while the CLERGY slaughtered tens of thousands of types of Christ trying to get peace and cleansing. The people were commanded NOT to use music as if one NEEDED to command that singing and instruments NOT be used when Christ the Spirit was speaking.

"Park Hill Church-A Christ-Centered Fellowship"

That IS NOT THE TRUTH. Any CHRIST-CENTEREDS would gracefully leave the church of Christ to its owners who HONOR its HEAD and BODY and go build an HONEST diversity church.

You are not CHRIST-Centered because you are parroting those who detest the name of Christ and believe and Claim that there is nothing left but SEVEN FACTS ABOUT JESUS. The Shellyites are now PARTNERING with God to get a NEW set of Scripture because "OUR CULTURE HAS CHANGED" (Wow, hasn't everyones!!). There is no other LEGALISTIC PATTERNISM to which the church can point. The result is to make them SECTARIAN because they sow discord among peacable churches.

Carroll D. Osburn might have given you ACUs DEGREE to go out and be "Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators" to CHANGE peacable churches of Christ but GOD IN CHRIST DID NOT.

Your misleaders KNOWS that the CIRCLE WILL BE BROKEN if he doesn't walk in THEIR paths. But, as prophesied the LITTLE HORNS have had their time with the king and they are CRACKING away.

Christ didn't SEND you to "do anything to SAVE MORE SOULS." Jesus died to build HIS ekklesia or synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. He ordained that the ONLY Pastor-Teachers are the eldlers who are "already laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching" who are HONEST and loyal enough to TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT.

Paul spoke of the assembling or gathering using a form of the Greek word SYNAGOGUE. There was never any praise service in the Jewish synagogue or Qahal or "church in the wilderness" because it was OUTLAWED and no Jew ever dreamed of MUSIC as part of the SCHOOL until 1815 where the LIBERALS also tried to steal the synagogue in Germany.

He sent EVANGELISTS out into the world and Paul would MARK the many at Corinth and Thessalonica by saying if they WILL NOT GO then NEITHER SHALL THEY EAT. HONEST evangelists get FED only when they THRESH or PLOW. YOU are seeking HUMAN GLORY and the BEST way to get SEEKERS driven your way is to REPUDIATE the name of Jesus Christ or Jehovah- Saves as the visible ANOINTED of God:

Eph 3:1 FOR this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known UNTO ME the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words;

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when YE read, YE may understand MY knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

What is that PREDESTINATED mystery?

That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the SAME BODY, and partakers of his promise IN Christ BY the gospel: Eph 3:6

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Eph 3:7

The BODY is called the Church of Christ or "the church of God IN Christ." Removing the name intends to SPIT in the face of God and His people by taking the authority to take the REPROACH-BRINGING name off THEIR property. As I have noted, this is not a FREE WILL thing but an identifying MARK that Jesus Christ has ALREADY removed the Menorah or Spirits of Knowledge. Jesus said that DOCTORS OF THE LAW take away the key to knowledge because THAT- by definition-is what Scripture Lawyers do.

GRACE is not unlimited forgiveness for unlimited sins. Rather, GRACE means POWER.

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this GRACE given,

that I should preach among the Gentiles the UNSEARCHABLE RICHES of Christ;

Eph 3:9 And to make all men SEE what is the FELLOWSHIP of the MYSTERY, which from the beginning of the world

hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

In First Corinthians Paul noted that Christ is NOT just Jesus of Nazareth but

Christ is the WISDOM of God
Christ is the GLORY of God

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit OF wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Ep.1:17

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1Co.1:24

God in Christ or the CHRIST OF GOD is never separated FROM God. The GODhead is Father, Son and Spirit. THEY are not three separated Beings:

but if I were, it would be an absolutely correct judgment in every respect, for I have WITH ME the Father who sent me. Jn.8:16LIV

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me HATH SEEN the FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Jn.14:9

Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the FATHER is WITH me. Jn.16:32

God the THOUGHT spoke to God the SON and the SON spoke the THOUGHT. That is why the Living Word delivered the Spoken Word. The SPIRIT is that between FATHER and SON and when the Son speaks the WORDS this proves that the SON has been given the SPIRIT without measure.

Those who REFUSE to speak the WORDS of Christ do not speak the SPIRIT of God because Jesus said "My WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE." (John 6:63)

Jesus said that those WHO SPEAK ON THEIR OWN are the sons of the DEVIL.

CHRIST is God Who came in a visible form because NO ONE has access to the invisible, separted Spirit "person" by Whom you get the RIGHT to steal the church houses of widows. Notice, that The FAMILY of God must honor the NAME (singular) of God:

Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the kind that was shown us by Jesus Christ,

Phil 2:6 who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God,

Phil 2:7 but laid aside his mighty POWER and GLORY, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men.

Phil 2:8 And he humbled himself even further, going so far as actually to die a criminal's death on a cross.

Phil 2:9 Yet it was because of this that God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name which is above every other name,

Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus very knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

God's INVISIBLE power is made known ONLY through Christ.

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places MIGHT BE KNOWN by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: Eph 3:11


For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 2 Cor 10:3

(For the weapons [lifeless instruments] of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 2 Cor 10:4

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Cor 10:5

MUSIC or pleasuring through singing is the CONNECTED word which is directly connected to the Greek HERESY. This means that people use emotional excitement to exalt themselve so the DEMAGOGUE can carry them away for his own USES. See the absolute MARK connecting MUSIC ot HERESY. That is what Scripture says from the beginning when the serpent was a Musical Enchanter or Enchantress who wholly seduced Eve in the way a bride is seduce just before the husband gets to her. That is why CAIN (a musical note) is OF THAT WICKED ONE.

http://www.piney.com/Heresy.Music.html

The NAME (singular) of Jesus Christ bears all of the authority of Father, Son and Spirit. Peter baptized into the NAME of Jesus Christ. Christ added baptized believers to HIS church. All of church history claimes the name of CHURCH OF CHRIST. When people SPIT it out so they can be SELF-CENTERED then you must see this as the SPIRIT of Christ removing His candlestick which represents the SEVEN SPIRITS all related to forms of wisdom and knowledge brught ONLY through the Word of Christ.

A mediator in song or sermon intends to STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE claiming to Be God. Look at the CENTER next Sunday and see who is AT THE CENTER.

No HOLY spirit led ANY church to denounce the Name of Christ to which the OWNERS of the property were loyal when THEY BOUTHT the building and unfortunately BOUGHT the preacher who has no role to play in the "fellowship" and no honest claim to pay to INFILTRATE and DIVERT.

It is true that APPOLO HAS LANDED. Apollo is Abaddon or Apollyon the FATHER of the seeker centers. He is the father of the "twanging bow to send the singing arrows, musical harmony, thieves and liars." If you grasp John you know that CIRCE or church is the holy whore. The MUSES or Locusts with Scorpion stings are the MUSES or the musical worship team of Satan himself. Time is short and what happened to the king/queen of Tyre and literal Babylon is HAPPENING in a church close to you: but time is short when you see the SIGNS and MUST HAVE the mark to participate.

Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

The Craftsmen or TECHNE (Koresh in Hebrew) are the THEATER BUILDERS AND STAGE MANAGERS. The milstone is perforated and has the same meaning as the FLUTE where the same Hebrew word means 'play the flute, steal your property, pollute and prostitute." The GRINDERS were concubines or prostitutes.

Sure, you can COLLECT all of those with the MUSICAL MARK (Cain is from a musical note) at one place but that is only for EASY segregation because those MARKED by the Word and Baptism will have FLED from Babylon. A Cappella, you knows is a LEGALISTIC, PATTERNIST loophole to USE instrumental music using PEOPLE as instruments: it is called ORGANUM. And A Cappella speaks only of the Pope's castrated Musical Worship Team. They PLAYED in the Sistine chapel because even in 1911 it was still UNLAWFUL to use instruments in the presence of the Pope or CHRIST.

Ken

I just hope that Myers and Hardick will listen to you. You tell the Bible Truth in Bible Ways! These "feel good" folks have been mislead to believe almost anything. It is just more of that "Purpose Driven" stuff and "community church" watered down teaching. We need to help folks but not mislead them. As I always say "Bible ways for Bible Beliven People".

I gave it my best shot! I wanted to give you an opportunity to come to me face to face and talk to me about this stuff like a man, but you have opted, instead, to keep the comfort of your anonymity and side with a man who is truly bent on creating dissension.

I wish it could have worked out differently. I was hoping to get to meet you through this process and learn how to grow together but I see that that will never happen.

I will not post on this website anymore becuase it is obvious that the reason for the website is not what it claims to be. In my opinion, this space is controlled by the devil. He has convinced a few of you that it is "biblical" to come on here under the shroud of anonymity and post hateful and judgemental thoughts about brothers who are doing there best to make it in this messed up world.

Your unwillingness to come to me face to face is proof that you are not genuinely interested in the truth about this matter yet but only interested in placing judgment on folks that you won't even take an opportunity to get to know!

That is not the heart of Christ and for this reason, I know that this place is not for concerned members, but rather angry members. Angry members who are unwilling to put aside their anger for the sake of expressing the same love that has been shown to them through the grace and mercy of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

God be with you as you jouney down this path! I pray that he will heal you of your judgmental hearts and through the power of the Holy Spirit, indwell in you a new heart full of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfullness and self-controll because in this world there is nothing that stands against them.

I offer the invitation to you again. Please feel free to return to Park Hill Church, A Christ-Centered Fellowship at any time. You are always welcomed and will receive acceptance and a place to heal if you so choose. We meet at 9:30am on Sunday mornings for Bible study. We begin worship at around 10:45am. On Wednesday evenings we meet at the building at 5:30 for dinner and fellowship with Bible study to follow at 7:00pm.

May God grant you peace, anonymous!

Ken, I am praying for your heart!

Moderator, I am praying for yours as well!

God bless you all!

In Him,

Jon Myers

Lord I hate that "I will pray for you." Such a slick, cowardly way of expressing superiority and then running for cover.

I am quite sure that Anonymous knows enough to know that if you will steal his church and DELIBERATELY sow discord and offend MANY, he would not DARE risk it all by speaking face to face. I think you guys would hurt him real bad: because of the LAW it might just be the loss of income.

Where I live the evil women love to spread lies and blame others for the similar problems they CAUSED. Fortunately, I don't DEPEND on the alpha male or I would be like other long-term employees.

I have flooded the internet and the forum with ABSOLUTE PROOF that when people turn MUSICAL it is the MARK of a perverted and hostile take over to turn "school of the Bible" into "a theater for holy entertainment." There is NOTHING you can find in the Bible or history which does not POINT the LOCUSTS (musical performers) under Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon OUT. That is why the singy-clappy, cutesy-pies just make the hair on the back of spiritual people's head stand up and they RUN without knowing why.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=150389&messageid=1112554164&lp=1113251166

I say that you SLANDER with the obligatory PHARISEE charge and CANNOT define it. Well, Jesus condemned the SECTARIAN Scribes, Pharisees and Hypocrites. The Greek world defines all of these as performing the role of SORCERY and because they performed no useful role it identifies the ALL as parasites. Hypocrites wer ACTORS in song or sermon. Are YOU on the DOLE?


Ken

Ken..You need to lighten up on this fellow Jonathan. I would never reject prayers on my behalf or make light of someone doing that. While we do have the Truth and need to correct him and others, we must do it in love and realize the Lord will help us expose, reprove and rebuke their error. I thought Jonathan wanted to "learn" but now he just signs off never to return again...How sad but we will keep trying...

I am very concerned after visiting this church about what is going on there. They are very much into the Holy Spirit moving differently in each of us. The change agents have really got into this place.

Please define the word PHARISEE so we can begin on a thus saith the Lord.

Ken

Just a couple of "should-be-obvious" observations.


Why on earth is the name change the name of this thread? I checked out their website http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=34934 and the name change is not the big problem to talk about. At least they aren't pretending to be like any other church of Christ, when they obviously are not. I realize we usually like to cloud the actual scriptural issues with ones that just make us uncomfortable, but let's try to stay on point here.

The first post mentions Southside. Do you have any idea if this group left Southside to make a directional change? If so, I wouldn't lump Southside into this whole thing.



For you that do attend Park Hill, could you explain the timeline and theology of the move from non-instrumental to instrumental? Also, are there any other teachings that are traditionally associated with the churches of Christ that you have moved away from? What do you practice when it comes to women's role, church leadership (elders & deacons), communion, etc.?

Thanks in advance for the insight.

To B ...What spurred your interest in this situation/ place? The point is what happened here is going on all over and we are sounding the warning bell to others true to the church to know what to look for when they are being taken over.

First, I think the warning bell has been sounded. Again and again and again.

Second, according to their website, at least one of these posters seems to be part of a pretty influential family at this church. If he is willing to be candid, we might get some actual insight into the process that brought them to this point.

Third, unlike some folks here, I would find it more interesting to hear what the people who are actually involved in the situation have to say, than to hear how some one can connect it over 6 degrees of separation to Zoe and something sexual.


Maybe if we listen, we can actually learn something (and still disagree with it if we think it's wrong).

Yes, check out their website and see the links to Edward Fudge and Rubel Shelly messages on it! Are you blind?

I think that what Paul was trying to say in Romans 16:16 was "greet each other with a holy kiss. The called out of Christ greet you." and not "this is what you should put on your sign out front."

Other "biblical" names.
The Way Acts 9:2
The Church at ...Acts 8:1
The Church of God 1 Corinthians 1:2
The Church of the ...... 1 Thessalonians 1:1
God's Household 1 Timothy 3:15
The Church of the Living God 1 Timothy 3:15
The Church of the Firstborn Hebrews 12:23
The Body of Christ 1 Corinthians 12:27
The Church in ....... Revelation 2:8

So let's quit getting bent out of shape when the sign gets changed.

btw, what has happened to the holy kiss?

Check Romans 16:16 and see what you get for the Truth

He that is PUZZLED let him be PUZZLED still: Puzzled missed MANY more proofs that the church is the church of CHRIST. It is his body so if you call it THE CHURCH you fail to do all in HIS Name. The holy whore of Babylon is CIRCE and she used music and magical inchantments and drugs to SEEK new members.,

They also called Jesus Beel-zebul:: So, how about naming YOUR church the Church of Baal. We will name the preacher Lord of Flies. How about we call your wife Jezebel?

Jesus is the Christ of God. That is, Christ is God IN the PERSON of a human because He deals with humans in a human dimension. Nevertheless, the CHRIST of God sent HIMSELF just as he is sent as ARM or ROCK. Therefore, to be answer the invitation (electons) one must put their total confidence in Christ as the SON or WORD or visible expression of the invisible God. If you are ashamed of the name--even if others give it a bad name--then you have had your FOUNDATION flooded away. In fact, there can BE NO work of Christ in the world which does not seem contemptible in the eyes of the world:

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Matt 16:15

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matt 16:16

He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ OF God. Lu.9:20

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matt 16:17

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matt 16:18

With the eunuch nothing could HINDER him asking for baptism after hearing the PROPHECY of Christ would be the inability to make that confession. With Cornelius, hs PRAISE of God made perfectly clear in the language of the Jews meant that no one could PREVENT his baptism. Christ is not the CENTER: Christ is THE body and He is the Living head of the body. If you put Him AT THE CENTER or the so called CORE GOSPEL that means that ALL OF THE REST belongs to me. It is a CODE WORD.

This is the same ROCK which provided the water of the Word. He is the anointed (Christ) as the seven spirits or lamps on the Menorah. If you take the NAME off you take the BRANCH out and the lights are gone.

PUZZLED: The Way Acts 9:2

Church is discipline or school: the WAY of Christ is the CHURCH of Christ

And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this WAY, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. Acts 9:2

Jesus saith unto him, I am the WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jn.14:6

For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the WAY of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mt.3:3

For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my WAYS which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church. 1Co.4:17

The WAY is the church of body or school of Christ

PUZZLED: The Church at ...Acts 8:1

AND Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was AT Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1

"AT" is not a name: Only God who shed His "blood" purchased the church. Christ only built one. Therefore anytime the word is used of a faithful congregation a CHURCH is the church of Christ. Removing the NAME is what all did to keep from being martyrs. If someone else brings reproach on the name of Christ--even accusing Christians of being cannabals--you don't DENY Christ even when the tigers are chewing your bones. Shame.

Today as I was watching the sunset, I began praising God for the beauty He created. Last week while traveling, seeing the ocean and the beautiful scenery I praised God. As the wind blows thru my hair as I am in my own backyard, I feel the presence of God. I am even in praise when I am teaching my work out class or taking one at the gym, ever so grateful that I am able to move and do these things. When I feel joy I believe it comes from above. I am in coversation and praise so many times thru out the day and it dawned on me. There is no Church of Christ written above my home, at the beach or any of the many places I feel Gods blessings and His presence. What a shame that the name on a building dictates whether you are in Gods presence or able to worship Him. You are missing out on so much time conversing and thanking and praising. I can even feel his presence in my home listening to music, He is with me all the time. In restaurants, stores and my car. I feel so blessed that I am not restricted on when and where My Lord and Savior makes His presence known to me. What a shame for you as you are missing out on some quality time. You spend what, a few hours in your CHURCH OF CHRIST building. My church of Christ is my daily walk, My church of Christ is my home and my time wih my family and friends. And for any Christian to say "I hate when people say I will pray for you," I really wonder where your heart and your intentions are. I thank God that we do not have believers like that at Park Hill Church, A Christ Centered fellowship. For I believe a man who would rebuke the prayers of another would not be availabe to pray for me. And that is one of the many things you can count on at Park Hill Church. It obviously is not the place for you, however if you walked in our doors today we would still embrace you with Gods love because that is the kind of folks we are. Nonjudgemental, loving caring Christians doing our best to Glorify God.

My prayers too are with you, even if you do not want them.

In His Holy Name
Kimberly Hardick

Kimberly,
Thank you so much for the words you expressed above. I praise God for people like and I pray that you have blessed day and week. Thank you again for bringing some hope and kindness to this hateful website!

Shane

Is this the Shane who just sent me an e-mail with more hate than I have had in a month

He claims that he is a STUDENT PASTOR. Hey, Shane, you cannot go to school be be and ELDER as the ONLY pastor-teacher orgained by God to FEED the sheep with the Word of God and NOT construct some silly, paganistic, legalistic WORSHIP SERVICES.

The "pastors" or elders did not HAVE a pulpit. They were pointed out because they were ALREADY laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching. Then, Shaney, you just have to AGE IN THE WOOD for a long time to become a Pastor or elder.

There ARE NO SADDLES on a faithful church or synagogue or school of Christ. Paull commanded that the ONLY pastors or elders "teach that which has been taught." To Timothy he commanded to "give attendance to the public reading or the Word" and to the doctrine contained therein and to admonishing that they observe what they read. They ate the Lord's supper--minus any singy-clappy praise songs, whistling or clapping by the STUDENTS. They looked around for anyone who was DESTITUTE and IF anyone had prospered THEN they gave it to the hands of the DESTITUTE. There is no command, example or inference for a collection plate to feed an able bodied man who must GO and preach what has been preached or "neither shall he eat."

Shane is mad because this forum intends to get all of the parasites with Phds who do not WANT to hear any Bible discussed and who will NOT preach the Word OFF the backs of widows and honest, hard working people who cannot affort to buy medicine for sick children while you do Dunkin Donuts with the Clergy Class.

If I manufactured Buggy Whips and someone tried to fire me then I might get mad also. I worked for the Railroad while attending college: they called it FEATHERBEDDING.

Ken

Ken,
First things first: Learn to type and use spell check. Wait....did they have computers in Jesus time? Bet not!

Second, thank you for you words on this website. I want you to know that I do not agree with you in any way, but I respect you. I want a generous orthodoxy that allows me to love those who do not love me. I was mean and hateful in my email and for that I ask for forgiveness. I believe Satan is alive and well on this website and I was sucked into the trap. Please Mr. Sublett, remember that God is love and love will always win. I hope you have great life and I will see you in heaven with the Pope, Baptists, and anyone else that calls on the name of Jesus

In Him,
Shaney

There is only one meaning to CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.

That is you REQUEST a clear conscience or consiousness or a CO-perception ONLY at the time and place of water baptism. The Pope has never called on the name of the Lord: He IS the Lord. Didn't you know that.

If you are going to study to become a GRANDFATHER then you might quite hating the Word and those who teach it without sweating one drop about that little pagan hour on Sunday.

The Bible defines baptism as Calling on the Name of the Lord: the Greek literature proves the meaning. Ala Max Lucado you even mistranslate the NIV and claim that you just call God: "Father." He says that A pledge of a good conscience means that we are saved when we might just look up into the sky and say: Ahhh! Then you MIGHT be baptized to PLEDGE to be a good boy. No one has anything to PLEDGE with God. That would be the ultimate LEGALISM.

The NIV translates the word as a PLEDGE only once out of 10 times and guess where it popped up: 1 Peter 3:21. In all other translations they are honest enough to know that the word means ASK OR REQUEST that God give us A holy spirit or A good consiousness or A heart sprinkled FROM and evil consciousness: all related to water baptism.

You guys have slipped radically beyond the presumed Calvinistic FAITH ONLY which Calvin and Luther reject. Now, you JUST SAY "DADDY." I was in Seattle when Bill Gates was a nerd. He used to attend our Board Meetings. I think I will return to Seattle and call Bill Gates: "Daddy." I could have had a billion or two of that if I hadn't given a year after retirement to the church. Know what, after I left the Jubilee-Zoe types lied, cheated and stole the church houses of widows and drove them out into the cold. You and Maxey think that CALLING is ok but that has NO reference to the Historical Christianity and the Bible. It is PURE MAX or WAX.

Here is a tidbit and I will feed you some more data on the meaning of CALLING on God: He elects or invites or calls through the Gospel. We call back and REQUEST what he has offered free of charge.

http://www.piney.com/BapCalling.html

At going on 75 and having spend many years as an elder I KNOW that you cannot attend classes to get maturity.

By the way, did you notice the Pope's hats along with the Cardinals (hinges of the church): well, it is a FISH HEAD. The Pope is from sucking in paganism the Priest of Dagon.



When the Dagonites made Samson SPORT you wont believe what they DID to him. The same word means Musical Idolatry as "the Rose up to Play" and the same word defines David's Dirty Dance with music. This is also a picture of EA a second incarnation of Lamech in Babylon. He is the patron god of music. Ea (Inanna, ZOE) got him drunk and stole the POWERS of the eldership, making instrumental music, navigating the seven gates of hell and sexual perversion. There is NO other MARK for music AS worship.

You might have noticed that the YOUTH flocked to the Pope because he REFUSED to make the church and its music in the IMAGE of Rock and Roll which is VOODOO. They will spit Max and Rubel out like a bug and honor those who do not STARVE them to death for the Water of the Word BY the use of wine, women and song. Take another look at Amos 5.

Ken

Ken,

I was baptized by my father in a Church of Christ at the age of 16. I like to clap and praise God with instruments. I also work as a minister in the Churches of Chirst and attend camp with Max's Church Oak Hills. Am I still going to heaven? Does God love me? Shoot me straight!

Shaney

I asked three adult daughters and one wife if they ever wanted to "sing, dance and and clap." They all said NO! Not even the women in my life ever fell into such effeminate antics.

Sure, you can rise up to PLAY in David's VILE ritual if you want but the Israelite also ROSE up to PLAY at Mount Sinai and got slapped in the face with LEAGALISM to regulate a nation sentenced to WORSHIP LIKE THE NATIONS. There is nothing more ancient, pagan superstition, leagalistic and polluting than the "musical prophesiers" who were the world's OLDEST profession. In the modern world there is nothing more legalistic and sectarianizing than to HELP god prop up the skies.

However, when you force your performance onto other people then this is the Lucifer or ZOE principle: you are seeking to BLEED OFF WORSHIP for yourself. The king/queeny of Tyre was indwelled by Lucifer (who is given some hope by Max Lucao who pictures him struggling with God to keep Jesus as a VIAL OF LIGHT from entering Mary. Pure pagan gnosticism of which ZOE is the mark an mother harlot.

At TYRE she is called the "singing and harp playing prostitute." It seems that HE wanted to be remembered as a MALE.

As the king/queeny of Babylon he/she went into hell with his/her harps and harpists to rot on a bed of maggots.

I can tell you that Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels as one CASTS OUT DUNG because the minstrels were prostitutes and under the regulation of the cemetary and dung heep people.

I can tell you that this CAST OUT is used of Lucifer and means to "play the flute, steal other people's grapes, pollute or prostitute."

I can tell you that Satan or Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon who is the ALREADY FALLEN star has probably turned the MUSES or LOCUSTS or musical performers LOOSE on the world to SEPARATE people with different Marks.

I can tell you that these people spoken in symbols in Revelation 18:22 will go back into hell with the Harlot Worship leader.

I can tell you that there is no exception in the literature which would distinguish you from the prostitutes and Sodomites who loved to hang around pagan temples. That is why people RUN or as at Mount Sinal laught AT you more than laugh WITH you.

I can tell you that if you hang around people who turn the Word of God into FICTION you will be under the same DILUSION. In Hebrew that WRATH is identified when God sends "buffoons" to delude the blind.

I can tell you that Max invented His INSPIRED TEXT for instrumental music probably from a VISION. However, it is quite identical to the Farmer's Branch White paper full of white lies sent to me to prove that I could not repudiate it. They LIED about every musical word and name of instrument in the Bible.

Here is Max's rationale which is his PROOF for what he intended to do all along by JUST having soft strings in another room somewhere. You know the meaning of INFILTRATE and DIVERT?

http://www.piney.com/Oak.Hills.Music.html

Here is the FACTS which MARKS you as something you MIGHT not be or want to be OUTED.

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Music.html

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-MusicB.html

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Nagan.html

http://www.piney.com/Farmers-Branch-Experiment.html

If you can repudiate the Bible from Lucifer, to the SERPENT in the garden of Eden, to all of the Old Testament examples, to the acted parables of Jesus, to the direct commands of Paul, to Revelation 18:22, to ALL of church theologians, to ALL of denominational founders and to the MAJORITY of the world's worshipers ang feel superior the who am I to question you.

God must be giving YOU visions along with Max to fly in the face of ALL history with no more connection of MUSIC to the Christian SYNAGOGUE or school of the bible than to ritual sodomy right there in the temple.

And yet, I can see why you would rather hang yourself on Max Lucado's throne than on Jesus Cross. Lots of people do that and find that they have no place in faithful churches of Christ and not even the denominations will trust you when you INFILTRATE and DIVERT to steal the church houses of weeping widows.

Eat, drink and make Mary.

Ken

Play musical instruments to praise God, and do it skillfully - Psalm 33:2-3, 43:4, 71:22, 92:3, 149:3, 150:3-5

Praise him with dancing - Psalm 150:3, 30:11, 149:3
Lift up your hands to Him - Psalm 63:4

Be creative in your praise (write or sing God a NEW song, not always the same old one) - Psalm 33:3, 149:1

2Sam. 6:3 They set the ark of God on a new cart and brought it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab, were guiding the new cart 4with the ark of God on it, and Ahio was walking in front of it. 5David and the whole house of Israel were celebrating with all their might before the LORD, with songs and with harps, lyres, tambourines, sistrums and cymbals.


1Kgs. 1:39 Zadok the priest took the horn of oil from the sacred tent and anointed Solomon. Then they sounded the trumpet and all the people shouted, "Long live King Solomon!" 40And all the people went up after him, playing flutes and rejoicing greatly, so that the ground shook with the sound.

1Kgs. 10:11 (Hiram's ships brought gold from Ophir; and from there they brought great cargoes of almugwood and precious stones. 12The king used the almugwood to make supports for the temple of the LORD and for the royal palace, and to make harps and lyres for the musicians. So much almugwood has never been imported or seen since that day.)

2Kgs. 3:14 Elisha said, "As surely as the LORD Almighty lives, whom I serve, if I did not have respect for the presence of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, I would not look at you or even notice you. 15But now bring me a harpist." While the harpist was playing, the hand of the LORD came upon Elisha 16and he said, "This is what the LORD says: Make this valley full of ditches. 17For this is what the LORD says: You will see neither wind nor rain, yet this valley will be filled with water, and you, your cattle and your other animals will drink. 18This is an easy thing in the eyes of the LORD; he will also hand Moab over to you.

1Chr. 9:33 Those who were musicians, heads of Levite families, stayed in the rooms of the temple and were exempt from other duties because they were responsible for the work day and night. 34All these were heads of Levite families, chiefs as listed in their genealogy, and they lived in Jerusalem.

1Chr. 13:7 They moved the ark of God from Abinadab's house on a new cart, with Uzzah and Ahio guiding it. 8David and all the Israelites were celebrating with all their might before God, with songs and with harps, lyres, tambourines, cymbals and trumpets.

1Chr. 15:15 And the Levites carried the ark of God with the poles on their shoulders, as Moses had commanded in accordance with the word of the LORD. 16David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals. 17So the Levites appointed Heman son of Joel; from his brothers, Asaph son of Berekiah; and from their brothers the Merarites, Ethan son of Kushaiah; 18and with them their brothers next in rank: Zechariah, Jaaziel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Unni, Eliab, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattithiah, Eliphelehu, Mikneiah, Obed-edom and Jeiel, the gatekeepers. 19The musicians Heman, Asaph and Ethan were to sound the bronze cymbals; 20Zechariah, Aziel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Unni, Eliab, Maaseiah and Benaiah were to play the lyres according to alamoth, 21and Mattithiah, Eliphelehu, Mikneiah, Obed-edom, Jeiel and Azaziah were to play the harps, directing according to sheminith. 22Kenaniah the head Levite was in charge of the singing; that was his responsibility because he was skillful at it.

1Chr. 15:25 So David and the elders of Israel and the commanders of units of a thousand went to bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD from the house of Obed-edom, with rejoicing. 26Because God had helped the Levites who were carrying the ark of the covenant of the LORD, seven bulls and seven rams were sacrificed. 27Now David was clothed in a robe of fine linen, as were all the Levites who were carrying the ark, and as were the singers, and Kenaniah, who was in charge of the singing of the choirs. David also wore a linen ephod. 28So all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the LORD with shouts, with the sounding of rams' horns and trumpets, and of cymbals, and the playing of lyres and harps. 29As the ark of the covenant of the LORD was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David dancing and celebrating, she despised him in her heart.

1Chr. 16:4 He appointed some of the Levites to minister before the ark of the LORD, to make petition, to give thanks, and to praise the LORD, the God of Israel: 5Asaph was the chief, Zechariah second, then Jeiel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Mattithiah, Eliab, Benaiah, Obed-edom and Jeiel. They were to play the lyres and harps, Asaph was to sound the cymbals, 6and Benaiah and Jahaziel the priests were to blow the trumpets regularly before the ark of the covenant of God.


1Chr. 23:4 David said, "Of these, twenty-four thousand are to supervise the work of the temple of the LORD and six thousand are to be officials and judges. 5Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose."

1Chr. 25:1 David, together with the commanders of the army, set apart some of the sons of Asaph, Heman and Jeduthun for the ministry of prophesying, accompanied by harps, lyres and cymbals. Here is the list of the men who performed this service: 2From the sons of Asaph: Zaccur, Joseph, Nethaniah and Asarelah. The sons of Asaph were under the supervision of Asaph, who prophesied under the king's supervision. 3As for Jeduthun, from his sons: Gedaliah, Zeri, Jeshaiah, Shimei, Hashabiah and Mattithiah, six in all, under the supervision of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied, using the harp in thanking and praising the LORD. 4As for Heman, from his sons: Bukkiah, Mattaniah, Uzziel, Shubael and Jerimoth; Hananiah, Hanani, Eliathah, Giddalti and Romamti-ezer; Joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir and Mahazioth. 5All these were sons of Heman the king's seer. They were given him through the promises of God to exalt him. God gave Heman fourteen sons and three daughters. 6All these men were under the supervision of their fathers for the music of the temple of the LORD, with cymbals, lyres and harps, for the ministry at the house of God.

2Chr. 5:12 All the Levites who were musicians --Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun and their sons and relatives --stood on the east side of the altar, dressed in fine linen and playing cymbals, harps and lyres. They were accompanied by 120 priests sounding trumpets. 13The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang: "He is good; his love endures forever." Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud, 14and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God.
2Chr. 7:5 And King Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty-two thousand head of cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the people dedicated the temple of God. 6The priests took their positions, as did the Levites with the LORD's musical instruments, which King David had made for praising the LORD and which were used when he gave thanks, saying, "His love endures forever." Opposite the Levites, the priests blew their trumpets, and all the Israelites were standing.

2Chr. 9:10 (The men of Hiram and the men of Solomon brought gold from Ophir; they also brought algumwood and precious stones. 11The king used the algumwood to make steps for the temple of the LORD and for the royal palace, and to make harps and lyres for the musicians. Nothing like them had ever been seen in Judah.)

2Chr. 15:14 They took an oath to the LORD with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns. 15All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the LORD gave them rest on every side
2Chr. 20:20 Early in the morning they left for the Desert of Tekoa. As they set out, Jehoshaphat stood and said, "Listen to me, Judah and people of Jerusalem! Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful." 21After consulting the people, Jehoshaphat appointed men to sing to the LORD and to praise him for the splendor of his holiness as they went out at the head of the army, saying: "Give thanks to the LORD, for his love endures forever." 22As they began to sing and praise, the LORD set ambushes against the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir who were invading Judah, and they were defeated. . . . 27Then, led by Jehoshaphat, all the men of Judah and Jerusalem returned joyfully to Jerusalem, for the LORD had given them cause to rejoice over their enemies. 28They entered Jerusalem and went to the temple of the LORD with harps and lutes and trumpets. 29The fear of God came upon all the kingdoms of the countries when they heard how the LORD had fought against the enemies of Israel.

2Chr. 23:12 When Athaliah heard the noise of the people running and cheering the king, she went to them at the temple of the LORD. 13She looked, and there was the king, standing by his pillar at the entrance. The officers and the trumpeters were beside the king, and all the people of the land were rejoicing and blowing trumpets, and singers with musical instruments were leading the praises. . . . 18Jehoiada placed the oversight of the temple of the LORD in the hands of the priests, who were Levites, to whom David had made assignments in the temple, to present the burnt offerings of the LORD as written in the Law of Moses, with rejoicing and singing, as David had ordered.

2Chr. 29:25 He stationed the Levites in the temple of the LORD with cymbals, harps and lyres in the way prescribed by David and Gad the king's seer and Nathan the prophet; this was commanded by the LORD through his prophets. 26So the Levites stood ready with David's instruments, and the priests with their trumpets. 27Hezekiah gave the order to sacrifice the burnt offering on the altar. As the offering began, singing to the LORD began also, accompanied by trumpets and the instruments of David king of Israel. 28The whole assembly bowed in worship, while the singers sang and the trumpeters played. All this continued until the sacrifice of the burnt offering was completed. 29When the offerings were finished, the king and everyone present with him knelt down and worshiped. 30King Hezekiah and his officials ordered the Levites to praise the LORD with the words of David and of Asaph the seer. So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshiped.

2Chr. 30:21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem celebrated the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days with great rejoicing, while the Levites and priests sang to the LORD every day, accompanied by the LORD's instruments of praise. 22Hezekiah spoke encouragingly to all the Levites, who showed good understanding of the service of the LORD. For the seven days they ate their assigned portion and offered fellowship offerings and praised the LORD, the God of their fathers.

2Chr. 31:2 Hezekiah assigned the priests and Levites to divisions --each of them according to their duties as priests or Levites --to offer burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, to minister, to give thanks and to sing praises at the gates of the LORD's dwelling. 3The king contributed from his own possessions for the morning and evening burnt offerings and for the burnt offerings on the Sabbaths, New Moons and appointed feasts as written in the Law of the LORD.


Neh. 12:8 The Levites were Jeshua, Binnui, Kadmiel, Sherebiah, Judah, and also Mattaniah, who, together with his associates, was in charge of the songs of thanksgiving. . . .
27At the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem, the Levites were sought out from where they lived and were brought to Jerusalem to celebrate joyfully the dedication with songs of thanksgiving and with the music of cymbals, harps and lyres. 28The singers also were brought together from the region around Jerusalem --from the villages of the Netophathites, 29from Beth Gilgal, and from the area of Geba and Azmaveth, for the singers had built villages for themselves around Jerusalem. 30When the priests and Levites had purified themselves ceremonially, they purified the people, the gates and the wall.
31I had the leaders of Judah go up on top of the wall. I also assigned two large choirs to give thanks. One was to proceed on top of the wall to the right, toward the Dung Gate. 32Hoshaiah and half the leaders of Judah followed them, 33along with Azariah, Ezra, Meshullam, 34Judah, Benjamin, Shemaiah, Jeremiah, 35as well as some priests with trumpets, and also Zechariah son of Jonathan, the son of Shemaiah, the son of Mattaniah, the son of Micaiah, the son of Zaccur, the son of Asaph, 36and his associates --Shemaiah, Azarel, Milalai, Gilalai, Maai, Nethanel, Judah and Hanani --with musical instruments [prescribed by] David the man of God. Ezra the scribe led the procession. 37At the Fountain Gate they continued directly up the steps of the City of David on the ascent to the wall and passed above the house of David to the Water Gate on the east.
38The second choir proceeded in the opposite direction. I followed them on top of the wall, together with half the people --past the Tower of the Ovens to the Broad Wall, 39over the Gate of Ephraim, the Jeshanah Gate, the Fish Gate, the Tower of Hananel and the Tower of the Hundred, as far as the Sheep Gate. At the Gate of the Guard they stopped.
40The two choirs that gave thanks then took their places in the house of God; so did I, together with half the officials, 41as well as the priests --Eliakim, Maaseiah, Miniamin, Micaiah, Elioenai, Zechariah and Hananiah with their trumpets-- 42and also Maaseiah, Shemaiah, Eleazar, Uzzi, Jehohanan, Malkijah, Elam and Ezer. The choirs sang under the direction of Jezrahiah. 43And on that day they offered great sacrifices, rejoicing because God had given them great joy. The women and children also rejoiced. The sound of rejoicing in Jerusalem could be heard far away.
44At that time men were appointed to be in charge of the storerooms for the contributions, firstfruits and tithes. From the fields around the towns they were to bring into the storerooms the portions required by the Law for the priests and the Levites, for Judah was pleased with the ministering priests and Levites. 45They performed the service of their God and the service of purification, as did also the singers and gatekeepers, according to the commands of David and his son Solomon. 46For long ago, in the days of David and Asaph, there had been directors for the singers and for the songs of praise and thanksgiving to God. 47So in the days of Zerubbabel and of Nehemiah, all Israel contributed the daily portions for the singers and gatekeepers. They also set aside the portion for the other Levites, and the Levites set aside the portion for the descendants of Aaron.

Job 21:11 They send forth their children as a flock; their little ones dance about. 12They sing to the music of tambourine and harp; they make merry to the sound of the flute. 13They spend their years in prosperity and go down to the grave in peace.
Ps. 33:1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him. 2Praise the LORD with the harp; make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre. 3Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy. 4For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.

Ps. 45:7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. 8All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad. 9Daughters of kings are among your honored women; at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir. . . . 17I will perpetuate your memory through all generations; therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever.

Ps. 47:0 For the director of music. Of the Sons of Korah. A psalm. 1Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy. 2How awesome is the LORD Most High, the great King over all the earth! 3He subdued nations under us, peoples under our feet. 4He chose our inheritance for us, the pride of Jacob, whom he loved. Selah 5God has ascended amid shouts of joy, the LORD amid the sounding of trumpets. 6Sing praises to God, sing praises; sing praises to our King, sing praises. 7For God is the King of all the earth; sing to him a psalm of praise. 8God reigns over the nations; God is seated on his holy throne. 9The nobles of the nations assemble as the people of the God of Abraham, for the kings of the earth belong to God; he is greatly exalted.

Ps. 61:0 For the director of music. With stringed instruments. Of David. 1Hear my cry, O God; listen to my prayer. 2From the ends of the earth I call to you, I call as my heart grows faint; lead me to the rock that is higher than I. 3For you have been my refuge, a strong tower against the foe. 4I long to dwell in your tent forever and take refuge in the shelter of your wings. Selah 5For you have heard my vows, O God; you have given me the heritage of those who fear your name. 6Increase the days of the king's life, his years for many generations. 7May he be enthroned in God's presence forever; appoint your love and faithfulness to protect him. 8Then will I ever sing praise to your name and fulfill my vows day after day.

Ps. 67:0 For the director of music. With stringed instruments. A psalm. A song. 1May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, Selah 2that your ways may be known on earth, your salvation among all nations. 3May the peoples praise you, O God; may all the peoples praise you. 4May the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you rule the peoples justly and guide the nations of the earth. Selah 5May the peoples praise you, O God; may all the peoples praise you. 6Then the land will yield its harvest, and God, our God, will bless us. 7God will bless us, and all the ends of the earth will fear him

Ps. 71:21 You will increase my honor and comfort me once again. 22I will praise you with the harp for your faithfulness, O my God; I will sing praise to you with the lyre, O Holy One of Israel. 23My lips will shout for joy when I sing praise to you-- I, whom you have redeemed. 24My tongue will tell of your righteous acts all day long, for those who wanted to harm me have been put to shame and confusion.

Ps. 81:0 For the director of music. According to gittith. Of Asaph. 1Sing for joy to God our strength; shout aloud to the God of Jacob! 2Begin the music, strike the tambourine, play the melodious harp and lyre. 3Sound the ram's horn at the New Moon, and when the moon is full, on the day of our Feast; 4this is a decree for Israel, an ordinance of the God of Jacob.

Ps. 98:0 A psalm. 1Sing to the LORD a new song, for he has done marvelous things; his right hand and his holy arm have worked salvation for him. 2The LORD has made his salvation known and revealed his righteousness to the nations. 3He has remembered his love and his faithfulness to the house of Israel; all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God. 4Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth, burst into jubilant song with music; 5make music to the LORD with the harp, with the harp and the sound of singing, 6with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn-- shout for joy before the LORD, the King. 7Let the sea resound, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it. 8Let the rivers clap their hands, let the mountains sing together for joy; 9let them sing before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity.

Ps. 100:1 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth. 2Worship the LORD with gladness; come before him with joyful songs. 3Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture.

Ps. 101:0 Of David. A psalm. 1I will sing of your love and justice; to you, O LORD, I will sing praise. 2I will be careful to lead a blameless life-- when will you come to me? I will walk in my house with blameless heart.

Ps. 104:11 They give water to all the beasts of the field; the wild donkeys quench their thirst. 12The birds of the air nest by the waters; they sing among the branches. 13He waters the mountains from his upper chambers; the earth is satisfied by the fruit of his work.

Ps. 104:31 May the glory of the LORD endure forever; may the LORD rejoice in his works-- 32he who looks at the earth, and it trembles, who touches the mountains, and they smoke. 33I will sing to the LORD all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. 34May my meditation be pleasing to him, as I rejoice in the LORD.

Ps. 105:1 Give thanks to the LORD, call on his name; make known among the nations what he has done. 2Sing to him, sing praise to him; tell of all his wonderful acts. 3Glory in his holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

Ps. 106:11 The waters covered their adversaries; not one of them survived. 12Then they believed his promises and sang his praise. 13But they soon forgot what he had done and did not wait for his counsel.

Ps. 107:21 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men. 22Let them sacrifice thank offerings and tell of his works with songs of joy. 23Others went out on the sea in ships; they were merchants on the mighty waters. . . . 43Whoever is wise, let him heed these things and consider the great love of the LORD.

Ps. 108:0 A song. A psalm of David. 1My heart is steadfast, O God; I will sing and make music with all my soul. 2Awake, harp and lyre! I will awaken the dawn. 3I will praise you, O LORD, among the nations; I will sing of you among the peoples. 4For great is your love, higher than the heavens; your faithfulness reaches to the skies.

Ps. 147:6 The LORD sustains the humble but casts the wicked to the ground. 7Sing to the LORD with thanksgiving; make music to our God on the harp. 8He covers the sky with clouds; he supplies the earth with rain and makes grass grow on the hills.

Ps. 149:1 Praise the LORD. Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise in the assembly of the saints. 2Let Israel rejoice in their Maker; let the people of Zion be glad in their King. 3Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp. 4For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation. 5Let the saints rejoice in this honor and sing for joy on their beds.
Ps. 150:1 Praise the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens. 2Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness. 3Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, 4praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute, 5praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals. 6Let everything that has breath praise the LORD. Praise the LORD.

Isa. 38:18 For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness. 19The living, the living --they praise you, as I am doing today; fathers tell their children about your faithfulness. 20The LORD will save me, and we will sing with stringed instruments all the days of our lives in the temple of the LORD.
Hab. 3:17 Though the fig tree does not bud and there are no grapes on the vines, though the olive crop fails and the fields produce no food, though there are no sheep in the pen and no cattle in the stalls, 18yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will be joyful in God my Savior. 19The Sovereign LORD is my strength; he makes my feet like the feet of a deer, he enables me to go on the heights. For the director of music. On my stringed instruments.

1Cor. 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Kim: It must be WONDERFUL to be totally Old Testament illiterate.

I have discussed ALL of those passages here and on my site.

http://www.piney.com/MuIndex2.html

Lets begin by saying that the Israelites rose up to PLAY which was MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai. Because they rejected God's grace He saw this as their prayer to return to Egyptian worship where God lumps EGYPT, SINAI, HAGAR, JERUSALEM, BABYLON, ASSYRIA AND SODOM.

Stephen and the WHOLE Old Testament tells us that God TURNED THEM OVER TO WORSHIP the STARRY HOST. That includes Chiun or Molech or Saturn whose Chaldee number is 666. When the ELDERS fired God and demanded a king LIKE THE NATIONS God understood that it meant so we can WORSHIP like the nations.

Eze.20:32 You say, "We want to be like the nations, like the peoples of the world, who serve wood and stone." But what you have in mind will never happen.

The last straw was God giving them a king to carry out the CAPTIVITY and DEATH sentence imposed at Mount Sinai but delayed. The kings would have to slaughter the natives whereas God could have driven them out with wasps. The Levitical warrior musicians made NOISE and not music. They played to drive the enemy into panic with the PSALMS. ALL of the instrumental Psalms are BOAST OR TAUNT songs: My God can destroy your gods. David truly believed that God was IN the Ark. One of the CURSES was that the king would take the girls for his OWN household and the young boys to make musical instruments and 'run before chariots.'

The Levitical Warrior Musicians were under the KING and the COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY.

Those TRAFFICKING in music are actually WARING against God when they take David's PANIC SONGS and force them into church. As Amos 5-8 and Isaiah 5 proves the music was to make them WORD IGNORANT so that the enemy could carry them away. The Greek word SINGING (externally) is related to CARRYING YOU AWAY for their own uses: this word is HERESY. MUSIC in many passages proves that it is the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE or the ZOE principle to BLEED OFF worship for the performers and to keep the FLOCK totally ignorant. That is why you should also SLAUGHTER types of God in Christ to be consistent.

http://www.piney.com/First.Samuel.Eight.html

It is also a fact that the SACRIFICIAL MUSICIAN'S service was HARD BONDAGE with the word much like Abaddon or Apollyon because--in type--they were killing God to gain momentary relief. However, not in the VILEST pagan temple (Jezebel's) could singers or musicians enter into the Holy Places. In Jerusalem the Holy Place was a type of the church of Christ where we must accept the sacrifice of Christ--our High Priest--and let Him wash us before we can ENTER into the type of the church. The musicians made loud NOISE to enable the priests to slaughter, smell blood, dung, burning flesh and more. However, any singer or musician who entered into the CARNAL TYPE of the church of Christ would be EXECUTED right then and there.

It was prophesied that Judas would musically MOCK Jesus (Psalm 41) and would fail. However, the Dead Sea Version says that the Levitical warrior musicians MUSICALLY MOCKED Jesus. When Jesus actually TRIUMPHED OVER them the word means that they would be turned over to the TRIUMPH of song and dance of the perverted Dionysus choral which they TRIED to force Jesus into to BOW before BAAL. The Abomination of Desolation took music and sexuality right into the Holy Place (church). If you do THAT you are fulfilling prophecy.

Music is the MARK of the BEAST. Zoe is known as the "Beast and female instructing principle." The CREATION story is treated as a parable to define the VOID and EMPTY state at the Flood and the Red Sea, the LOSS of Israel:

Jer 4:18 Your own conduct and actions have brought this upon you. This is your punishment. How bitter it is! How it pierces to the heart!"

Jer 4:19 Oh, my anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain. Oh, the agony of my heart! My heart pounds within me, I cannot keep silent. For I have heard the sound of the trumpet; I have heard the battle cry.

Jer 4:20 Disaster follows disaster; the whole land lies in ruins. In an instant my tents are destroyed, my shelter in a moment.

Jer 4:21 How long must I see the battle standard and hear the sound of the trumpet?

Jer 4:22 My people are fools; they do not know me. They are senseless children; they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil; they know not how to do good."

This is where you are and you FOLLOW the leaders who are more "apt to chase a coon than apt to teach you the Bible." Using BATTLE and WARRIOR music is using the POLLUTED Pagan WORSHIP music where the musical prostitute intends to STEAL your minds so they can pick the pockets of old widows.

When you bring MUSIC into the church as synagogue or Holy Place devoted ONLY to reading the Word and prayer, you fall LOWER than any pagan priest or priestess who were male and female prostitutes. That is a fact and that is why Revelation 18:22 says that you will go BACK into hell with Satan or the Babylon Prostitute worship.

Rev 18:22 The music [DEVIL's Muses or Locusts] of harpists [=sorcerers or parasites]and musicians, flute players [=play flute, pollute, prostitues] and trumpeters [Battle signals], will never be heard in you again. No workman of any TRADE [Techne=theater builders, stage managers] will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone [Grinders=prostitutes] will never be heard in you again.

You have MOVED yourself to the LEGALISTIC side of the CROSS and MUSIC is the MARK. That is why you are still trying to slay your Lost Savior.

Ken

Ken, your name calling and hate filled words make it evident that your message is not of God.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I love worship, I love the instruments and I love FEELING Gods presence with me. I love the people I worship with and those that share their God given talent of being able to play musical instuments. I love watching my son when the teens lead worship and he is given an opportunity to use his gift from God to Glorify God as well as to bless those that hear him. You may pick and choose scripture that backs your side of the story, just as I.
It seems to me that Jesus never says not to use instruments in worship, it is simply not addressed in the New testament. Probably because worship comes from the heart and that is what is important.
As children we lived our lives based on shoulds and should nots told to us by our parents. As Christians do we stay childlike in our walk by doing what another man interprits to be the way? There are so many different beliefs, religions and ideas as well as diferent interpritations to the Bible. I am strong in my faith and my beliefs, but I also know that it may not be the same for everyone. But is it my job to condemn them to hell because of it. No. Should I judge your salvtion because you do not

Play musical instruments to praise God, and do it skillfully - Psalm 33:2-3, 43:4, 71:22, 92:3, 149:3, 150:3-5

Praise him with dancing - Psalm 150:3, 30:11, 149:3
Lift up your hands to Him - Psalm 63:4

etc......
so you speak all your babble. I find it to be quite entertaining and it has actually gotten me to study areas of the word that I may not have study. My heart and my conscious are good and I will continue to praise God with clapping and waving of my hands, and expressing my love and praise to Him in a way that expresses the same joy and excitement you feel when you watch a football game or your children playing.

God is good all the time and all the time God is good!

Quoting those passages just proves my point. I suggest that you get a lamb and call it JESUS and slit its throat, skin it, gut it, smell the blood, smell the dung, smell the burning flesh and THEN you will see what you are doing with your proof texts when I AM CERTAIN that you have never read the chapters much less the context connected to the RISING UP to Play at Mount Sinai which was musical idolatry involving singing, clapping, playing instruments and PLAYING sexually. For that God abandoned the nation to worship the STARRY HOSTS which includes Saturn who is Chaldee 666. What you see in the Old Testament is a nation being led by hand-selected kings to carry out the captivity and death sentence. They will be led into captivity and ETERNAL BURNING to the beat of instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

The MUSIC-sexuality-homosexuality connection is as old as the towers of Babylon. Modern science concurs: you are just inducing into yourself and others a SEXUAL feeling induced by the sounds and body worship. For about half of the audience you FLAUNT yourself before you produce endorphins (morphine overdose) which induces FIGHT or FLIGHT. When the musical idolaters PERFORMED at Mount Sinai they THOUGHT that they were worshiping. However, God said that others would see them as a LAUGHINGSTOCK.

That is why Jerusalem is called SODOM and when the Harlot Worship leader goes back into hell she will carry all of her THEATRICAL PERFORMERS.

Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

All religious singers and musicians were known as the HAREM OF THE GODS. When they PERFORMED they were involved in ritual prostitution with the gods THROUGH his "agents." Your misleaders are USING you to sell religion with sex. Hope you don't CHARGE!

Have a happy RIDE as you TRAFFICK yourself like Lucifer who is ZOE.

Colossians 3:16-17 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

James 5:13 "Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms."

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Ephesians 5:19 "speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;"

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kind-ness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (Col. 3:11-16).

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. (Eph. 5:18-21).


What exactly are Psalms I said to myself, so I did a little research and look what I found to be the definition of psalms.

Psalm (Greek - PSALMOS) has a meaning of singing with instrumental accompaniment.

"Song, psalm: to stringed instrument" (Karl Feyerabend, Ph.D., Greek-English Dictionary, Mc Kay co., 1918).
Song accompanied by a stringed instrument, psalm" (A Glossary of Later Latin to 600 A.D., by A. Souter, Oxford, Clarendon Press). Psallo: (verb) "I play on
the harp (or other stringed instrument;" psalmos (noun), "a psalm, that is a song of praise, etc., to God, with an accompaniment on the harp," (A. Souter, A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New Testament, Oxford, Clarendon Press).


Psalm "Sung to the accompaniment of stringed instruments" (Harper’s Bible Dictionary, p. 589).

Psalm"In Hebrew and Greek the root meaning is to play instrumental music, and then to sing to musical accompaniment" (A. Coken, Ph.D., Psalm, Soncino Press, p. 10).

"Psalm is properly a ‘song with musical accompaniment’" (Eph., Feign-Kinsman Dictionary of the Bible, p. 441).

""PSALMOS, a translation of the Hebrew specific term MIZMOR, meaning, ‘a song set to stringed instruments’" (John Franklin, A Guidebook to the Biblical Literature, Ginn & Co., N.Y., p. 433).

"PSALMOS, a translation of the Hebrew specific term MIZMOR, meaning, ‘a song set to stringed instruments’" (John Franklin, A Guidebook to the Biblical Literature, Ginn & Co., N.Y., p. 433).

Psalm "Signifies, first, the action of playing any harp-like instrument, then the music thus produced, and finally the song sung to the accompaniment of a harp-like instrument" (Ency. Dictionary of the Bible, McGraaw-Hill, N.Y., p. 1954).

The ‘psalm’ (Eph. 5:19) may be understood in general as ‘a sacred song chanted to the accompaniment of instrumental music’" (Alvah Harvey, D.D., LL.D., Ephesians, Philadelphia, 1887).

Psalm "It is used of a song as accompanied by any instrument, not merely stringed instruments" (James Stewart Perowne, Old Testament Revision Committee, Psalms).

Psalm "A jubilant song of praise to accompaniment of music...applicable to any piece designed to be sung to a musical accompaniment" (Encyclopedia Biblica, p. 3921).

Psalm "The leading idea of psalm is a musical accompaniment." (Thayer’s Addition, Grimm/Wilke’s Greek-English Lexicon, p. 637).

Psalm "to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang, to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument, to play a stringed instrument". This definition is attributed to Aristotle around 384 B.C.


psalm
noun


1. A sacred song, especially one from the Book of Psalms in the Old Testament.

Thesaurus: hymn, canticle, sacred song, paean.
Etymology: 10c: from Latin psalmus, from Greek psalmos a song sung to a harp, from psallein to play the harp.



A psalm (Hebrew and Greek words) was a poem of set structure to be sung to the accompaniment of stringed instruments" (Catholic Ency., p. 534).
B) Hymn (Greek - HUMNOS) means singing a praise to God.
C) Song (Greek - ODE) means a general word for a song, whether accompanied or unaccompanied, whether of praise or on any subject



It seems to me that if God had indeed changed his mind about the use of instruments in worship He would have been a little more direct in telling us so. He gave us many words in the old testament on the use of instruments why then were we never commanded not to. The use of the word Psalms or Psalmos obviously did not need any further description of the use of instruments because it was already covered in the Old Testament. You give many examples of the Harlet and the Harp and many other less honorable people that were associated with certain instruments, but I ask you. who did Jesus associate himself with. Mary Magdeline was no angel. I believe she to was a Harlet. So what are you really saying sir.

Now i take this a step further and find these references in Revelation. I am sure there are more but these are 2 I will share.

Revelation 14:2-3 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 15:2-3 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Now you may argue but that occurs in heaven. And I would say and your point being?

Our father who art in Heaven, hollowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the Kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever.
Amen

I also wonder where in the scriptures exactly it says that song books, tuning forks, individual communion cups, wafers, um what else dos the Church of Christ use in worship that may not be specifically mentioned in the Bible. I think you are the one that has fallen into the legalism of a denomination that has instilled upon you rules of man.


I read your words and feel like the same could be said back to you. I hope that you are not a true reflection of your denomination. It frightens me to think that there are people like you who call themselfs Christian yet have so much hate and anger in them. I believe you are making a mockery of C of C and which I do not believe to right. I have no problem with open honest dialogu but ahlf of the garbage you write does not even make sence.

God be with your soul and I believe he will use this page to glorify Him and not for whatever your purpose is. It obviously is not to share Gods love with anyone.

Annonymous I am glad you came back to visit. I am sorry I did not get an opportunity to visit with you. I am by no means a bible scolar and do not profess to be one. I am a child of God honestly seeking out His will for me. I hope you will come back and stay for service and get to know us a bit better. We are ultimately seeking the same thing, to serve and love God with all our hearts and bring others to know of His love and Grace.

God didn't NEED to change His Mind because YOU cannot find ONE EXAMPLE in the Bible involving "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." I told you that Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels from His healing presence as one CASTS OUT DUNG because the musicians such as flute-girls were under the control of the person who regulated PRACTICES and PRICES, the cemetary and the DUNG HEAP.

Sorry, Kim but you are pulling verses out of context: you need to read the whole story. But singing, clapping and playing instruments along with performance preaching INTENDS to silence the WORD of God: that is the meaning of many instrumental passages.

Psallo means to PLUCK with the fingers and NOT WITH A PLECTRUM. It applies only to PLUCKED bow strings or lyre strings: both done by our Abaddon or Apollyon who was, like Lucifer, always equipped with both war and music devices.

ONE writer first used PSALLO to mean pluck the harp string meaning to YANK. Therefore, there is NO dictionary for PSALLO: you have to go to the original literature. Your writers HAVE NOT investigated the literature I HAVE and I have posted the important stuff. You cannot use PSALLO to play a guitar with a pick, blow a flute (to pollute or prostitute), beat a drum or cymbal. The word LITERALLY OUTLAWS and is a DIRECT COMMAND against MAKING MUSIC.

NO Hebrew or Greek word means to PLAY A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. If you are singing then ALL Bible passages identify three things:

1. The word sing often means that it CAN be played. By definition a SONG is metrical and can be played.

2. You need the word PLUCK or PLAY: this COULD mean pluck a bow string, pluck a harp string, pluck a hair off the head, pluck a chalk line or pluck a hair which was REQUIRED by the male instrumentalists as PRETEND females.

3. Finally, you need to define THE TYPE OF INSTRUMENT if you are going to pluck a harp string which made more noise than music. Melody would be about three or four notes in a sequence and PROHIBITS harmony. EXAMPLE of melody. Note that verse 16 DEFINES singing AS A PROSTITUTE:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre [Lucifer=Zoe] shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Isa 23:15

WHICH GOES: Take an 1. harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; 2. make sweet MELODY, 3. SING many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isa 23:16

There is NO example in the published Greek Literature which uses PSALLO to mean PLUCK as in plucking harp strings which does not DIRECTLY connect it to a homosexual grooming a young boy. Philip chided Alexander the Great saying that no respectable man should be able to PSALLO the harp so well. That is because it was reserved for prostitutes or sodomites in religious festivals.

The resulting SOUND is a TWANGING or sound which with the BOW intended to GRIND YOU INTO BITS: that is the BASE meaning of Psallo. It has the same BASE meaning of the SOP Jesus hand ground for Judas and SIGNALED that Satan would come into him. It WAS prophesied that Judas would try to silence Jesus with MUSIC!

SEE WHY PAUL COMMANDED THAT THE MELODY BE IN THE HEART. If he had wanted to included a harp he would have used the word PSALMODIA which I can assure you no college professor writing "dictionaries" would know about.

Aristotle noted that when people run out of productive work, pride often causes them to turn to music.

Moreover the flute is not a moralizing but rather an exciting influence, so that it ought to be used for occasions of the kind at which attendance has the effect of purification [charismatic madness by Apollo or Abaddon] rather than INSTRUCTIONS


Chalal (h2490) to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge"); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute): defile, * break, defile, take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute,slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

David's PRAISE word gave rise to the word LUCIFER who was CAST AS PROFANE out of heaven and wholly seduced Eve in the garden of Eden with HER pipes and tabrets.

And let us add that the flute happens to possess the additional property telling against its use in education that playing it prevents the employment of speech. Hence former ages rightly rejected its use by the young and the free, although at first they had employed it.

For as they came to have more leisure because of their wealth and grew more high-spirited and valorous, both at a still earlier date and because after the Persian Wars they were filled with pride as a result of their achievements

A wealthy citizen (choregus) who undertook the duty of equipping and training a chorus for a religious celebration (especially the production of a drama at Athens)

usually had an assistant of LOWER station to supply the instrumental music. [Note: When the Jews in 1815 added the first instruments to compete with the Christians, they quite naturally hired Gentile musicians]

Women who were public singers and players were universally prostitutes. It is well document that MALES who did so were DRUNK or EFFEMINATE. That has always been the PERSONA and reputation of public musicians.

GREGORY OF NYSSA (died c394)

8 . Now since man is a rational [spiritual] animal,

the instrument of his body must be made suitable for the use of REASON;

as you may see musicians producing their music according to the form of their instruments,
and not piping with harps nor harping upon flutes,


so it must needs be that the organization of these instruments of OURS should be adapted for reason,

that when struck by the VOCAL ORGANS it might be able to sound properly for the use of WORDS. [Paul commanded SPEAK]


2. And as some skilled musician, who may have been deprived by some affection of his own voice, and yet wish to make his skill known,

might MAKE MELODY with VOICES of others,
and publish his art by the aid of flutes or of the lyre,


so also the HUMAN MIND [spirit] being a discoverer of all sorts of conceptions, seeing that it is unable, by the mere soul, to reveal to those who hear by bodily senses the motions of its understanding, touches, [plucks] like some skillful composer,

these animated instruments, and makes known its hidden thoughts by means of the sound produced upon them.

If you will remember Psalm 150: the INSTRUMENTS were only those which HAD BREATH.
God gave us the HARPS OF GOD so that we can OFFER the sacrifice of the fruit of the LIPS. This writer and PAUL defines the PSALLOING or MAKING MELODY with the voice and in the HEART.

You are seeking justification for what you are doing 'SPITE OF HELL but you repudiate the Bible and ALL of church history. The early introduction of instruments DID NOT accompany instrumental music because EVERYONE knew better.

Ken,

If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!

If God is love and you are one with God, then where is the love, Ken?

I have never read such ugly and hateful things in all my life! And from a man who claims to be a concerned member of Christ's body? I am almost ashamed to call myself a Christian if your treatment of these folks is a reflection of Christ. I don't care if you agree or disagree with the people on this page. You should never have said some of the things I have read here today! If I were your mother, I would hold you down and wash your mouth out with soap! That is what happened to me when I said mean and hurtful things to others. You should be ashamed!

I think that should just about sum up what I have to say to you!

BE NICE!!

This is not a "be bad" ..."be nice" issue. We are talking about CONCERN for a congregation of the Lord's Church that has been overrun and taken over with the "community church" and "purpose driven" mess. There is a "narrow" gate and a "wide" gate and we have got to expose all this error happening here and elsewhere. I am calling on the troops of the Lord to visit this place and expose error and those who are promoting it! Where are you! It is time to stand up!

I am in the business of telling people the facts: If you want to make love then go watch the singy-clappy girls next Sunday. JUST LOVOOVEEE is just a LIEEEEE.

There is only SELF LOVE when performance preachers and THEATRICAL PERFORMERS ACT UP right there in the "Holy Place."

If you were my mother I probably would EAT her soap: made of pig lard and lie. My mother would know enough not to tolerate one of her three girls PERFORMING PUBLICALLY and pretending to lead the worshipers into the presence of God. As an organist and guitar player my mother could not abide the music AS WORSHIP in my dad's Methodist church and returned to be a Campbellite where LOVE

Musical instruments WERE idols and Homes of The Gods: Even David tried to AWAKEN his lyre so that he could awaken the dawn.

Hab 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

Hab 2:20 But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

The preachers make fun of Adab and Abihu but Paul referred to rejecting God's commandments:

Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

If there is NO EXCEPTION to the rule that singers and instrumentalists in religion were ALWAYS pretending to be THE HAREM OF THE GODS" then it is LOVE to warn the audience because the PERFORMERS have been marked based on the Book of Enoch. When you accept worship as the king/queen of Babylon who went into hell to rot on a bed of maggots and be consumed with his/her harps and harpists" then WORMS or MAGGOTS will consume you.

Ken

What gutter is your mind in that you can manage to twist a person's worship into something sexual? Am I understanding what you are trying to imply correctly?....Are you calling me a prostitute if I choose to clap along with a song?

None of Biblical hand clapping has to do with "worship in praise to God."

Caphaq (h5606) saw-fak'; or saphaq (1 Kings 20:10; Job 27:23; Isa. 2:6), saw-fak'; a prim. root; to clap the hands (in token of compact, derision, grief, indignation or punishment); by impl. of satisfaction, to be enough; by impl. of excess, to vomit: - clap, smite, strike, suffice, wallow

And Balaks anger was kindled against Balaam, and he smote his hands together: and Balak said unto Balaam, I called thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast altogether blessed them these three times. Nu.24:10

Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place. Jb.27:23


For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God. Jb.34:37


Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers. Is.2:6


Make ye him drunken; for he magnified himself against the Lord: Moab also shall wallow in his vomit, and he also shall be in derision. Je.48:26


All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? Lam.2:15


And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Re.11:8

Connected to Rising Up To Play in Musical Idolatry:

And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. Ex.32:6


Cachaq (h6711) tsaw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh outright (in merriment or scorn); by impl. to sport: - laugh, mock, play, make sport.


And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport (h7832) . And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport (h6711) : and they set him between the pillars. Jud.16:25


Sachaq (h7832) saw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh (in pleasure or detraction); by impl. to play: - deride, have in derision, laugh, make merry, mock (-er), play, rejoice, (laugh to) scorn, be in (make) sport.


And David and all the house of Israel played (h7832) before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. 2S.6:5


Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 1 Co.10:7

This is certainly not talking about praise or worship nor in the context of music. You will notice that David stripped off with the following girls and claimed that he was honored in their eyes and he would make himself even more vile. His praise meant to make a fool of himself with the girls.

100% Image: judge yourself.



Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels (always men or perverted males) as one FLINGS OUT DUNG. Just as Lucifer (Zoe) was CAST AS PROFANE OUT OF HEAVEN with a word meaning to "play the flute, steal other's inheritance, pollute or prostitute."

Worship means to GIVE HEED TO. All theatrical performers say WATCH ME and if female you are violating Paul's direct command against exercising AUTHORITY which is AUTHENTIA which is erotic and murderous. SILENT in church also means SEDENTARY or you INTEND to display yourself. It is self-evident.

That is why you DRIVE OUT the spiritually mature INTENTIONALLY.

You can't deny the OT passages when it comes to instrumental music but use them for your hand-clapping arguments.

I'm a firm believer in a capella singing, but I think your connection of everything to Lucifer, Zoe and something sexual is nonsensical.

There is just one way: the same OLD TESTAMENT use of music is condemned for the same reason that HAND CLAPPING was condemned: both are MARKS of people who HISS and BOO God's word off the state.

There is NO connection between MUSIC and WORSHIP which has ALWAYS been in the human mind or spirit. Literally it means to fall on your face. The people's congregation was PUT OUT of the precincts which were SACRED to the temple state when the LOUD music was to SIGNAL them to fall on their face even outside the gates. The music was also called SERVICE which means HARD BONDAGE. They served the PRIESTS and not God. They made a great crashing noise--not music--to help the priests survive the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent LAMBS which were substitutes for GOD.

The church in the wilderness or Qahal or synagogue was the ONLY assembly of the people. The purpose was for INSTRUCTION. Therefore, God OUTLAWED the triumph over which was playing intruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord. This was NOT worship but the warrior's BATTLE CRY as seen in ALL of the instrumental psalms.

Hand clapping was a sign of DERISION because it MOCKED the looser rather than applauded the winner. That message continued into the Greek language. That has NEVER changed and neither has the MEANING of music as a MARK of a polluted religionism repudiating worship in the NEW PLACE of the human spirit.

I can use the Old Testament to INFORM me as to why Jesus "cast out the musical minstrels" more or less violently as one EJECTS DUNG. I can use ANIMAL SACRIFICES to prove just why Jesus ejected the musical minstrels. I can use the king/queen of Tyre as a model of LUCIFER the "singing and harp playing prostitute" who wholly seduced Eve. I can hear Paul call that a SEXUAL seduction and she did not EAT an apple from the MIDST of the Assyrian as the TALLEST TREE in Eden. I can read that CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE and hear the New Testament say that "Cain was OF that evil one."

Get the point: the Old Testament is CHAPTER ONE which defines the FAILURE always MARKED by musical seduction as FOR MY LEARNING so that I don't RISE UP TO PLAY (1 Cor 10) where Paul points to MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai.

I can read Psalm 41 and hear God prophesy that JUDAS would try to DEFEAT Jesus with the same ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER which God OUTLAWED for the synagogue. This was so profound an instruction that the synagogue existed from the wilderness onward and NEVER sunk to singing or playing instruments when they were LISTENING to the words of a Holy God. That changed in 1815 by a liberal German Rabbi who sowed discord BEFORE it happened by the SECTARIAN and LEGALISTIC Stoneites.

Being marginally as smart as an earthworm, these EXAMPLES help me not make the SAME mistake. Applause STILL brings shame on all of those in second and third place. Even those who cannot peddle songs or sermons are APPLAUDED in heaven when we are baptized INTO Christ.

Ken

I am so confused as to how you know when to refer to what is written in the old testament and when it is not applicable. It is to confusing and I do not believe that God is a God of confusion. The Devil is the master behind confusion. I throw my hands up as I am not a Bible scholar and most Christians I know are not bible scholars. I Believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and that there is a higher power who ultimately is the final judge and knows where my heart is, also the forgivenses of my sins thru the blood of Christ and knowing that God loves me and meets me where I am about sums it up for me. You are taking way to much out of context and adding your own interpritation where it suits your cause. Unless you have sat face to face whith God and He has told you all of this I think you are a fraud and giving christianity a bad wrap. But you will in the end meet your maker and have to explain your design. I am so glad I m not in your shoes.

for in all things we are more than conquerers through Him who loved us.
for I am sure that neither death, nor life, not angels, nor principalities, nor things present, not things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8 verses 37 - 39.

Instrumental music in the Church? Let God tell us how to worship God!

God’s Word makes it plain and simple on how God requires us to worship him.

The first thing that you must know when it comes to the subject of God, and what is appropriate in our worship service to God, is that your opinion means absolutely nothing in the eyes of God. Peter tried to give his opinion once on how God’s business should be conducted but then God himself spoke out and set the record straight on who we should be listening to if we want to please God:


M't:17:4: Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias;

M't:17:5: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.


If you are going to speak on the subject of what God would have us do, you would be wise to back it up with book, chapter and verse; use God’s word. If not, it would be best to just keep your worthless opinions to yourself:


1Pe:4:11: If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

That could not be stated any clearer; could it?

Be very careful how you handle God’s business. We are not the authority on how things should be done.

We can only follow instructions and the examples of the early Christians.

Ac:2:41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac:2:42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers
2Th:2:15: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Eph:4:14: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1Tm:4:1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


Now that we got that fact established, let us see how musical instruments fit into God’s instructions for worship.


(There is not even one example of an early Chistian using a mechanical instrument in a worship service to God for us to follow. This ommission of mechanical instruments in early Church worship service did not occur by accident or mistake. God does not make mistakes. If it would have been included as an example to all Christians to follow then it would have contradicted the next bible fact.)


God is not to be worshiped with hands.


Ac:17:24: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Ac:17:25: Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

And before you start using your feet, toes, knees, elbows, or some other creative way to play musical instruments in order to worship God, just keep in mind that Jesus said: "God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."


Joh:4:23: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


This question goes out to those who are sincerely seeking to please God. It is not addressed to those of you who do not love and respect the Word of God. It is not addressed to those who could not care less about how God has instructed us to worship him, and are more concerned with the self gratification they get from being entertained. It is not addressed to those who only seek fame and praise from the audience of the Church. No, this question is not for you if you are in the later categories, because you are not spiritually ready for it. (You can decide which category you are in.)

This question is for those who only want to "get it right" when it comes to God; It is for those of us who want to be ready when we stand before the Lord in the Day of Judgment.

The question is:

If God is not to be worshiped with "men’s hands" (and the key word is worshiped),and if God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth, can a Christian justify playing a guitar, piano, or any other instrument in order to worship God???


Heb:13:15: By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Eph:5:19: Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Heb:2:12: Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Let all things be done for the edification of the saints.

1Co:14:26: How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


Some people think that playing an instrument for the church would edify the members of the church just as much as singing, preaching, and praying.

It is biblically impossible for the plucking or playing of a mechanical instrument to edify a Christian on the level of singing, preaching or praying. A mechanical instrument can appeal to the carnal side of man/woman but can never be considered spiritual edification.

The Greek words for edify (edify means ‘to make understand or enlighten; inform, educate, instruct, improve; teach’) are Oikodomeo/Oikodome and they are defined as the systematic building, constructing, and confirming of someone or something.

On a spiritual level, when a person is edified they are educated, instructed, and enlightened by another person through the preached word, song, prayer, or kind word of encouragement. When a person edifies another they build them up or make them feel replenished spiritually.

A mechanical instrument cannot sing, preach, or pray, therefore it cannot edify anyone on a spiritual level. Many men and women have been built up (edified) through the preached Word, song, and prayer. We have no earthly New Testament example of any Christian in the Bible being spiritually edified through a mechanical instrument.

Last but not least, there was no Old Testament Church for us to follow the examples of and we are not under the Law of Moses. Christ nailed that law to the Cross.

Col:2:13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col:2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So there you have it.

Let’s recap the biblical facts:

1. God does not need, want, or even value our opinions on how to worship him. We are instructed to hear his beloved Son.
2. If we are to speak, let us speak as the oracles of God.
3. We are to continue steadfastly in the doctrine and tradition of the early Christians.
4. God is not to be worshipped with the hands of men.
5. God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
6. We are instructed to teach and admonish one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
7. All things should be done for the edification of the Church.
8. Mechanical Instruments can not edify anyone.
9. We are not commanded to follow the worship examples of an Old Testament Church; there never was one.

We should let God tell us how to worship God.

Lu:4:4: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Any questions?




In Jesus'name.

1Pe:4:11: If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


And to those he gives the gift of talent to play a musical instrument . that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I do not have a good voice. In fact it is terrible. I also have no talent in playing a musical instrument. I do have a gift of dance and if I use it to glorify God .... if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:


Using your references.


2Th:2:15: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Well we have all been taught many different traditions sir, so if it is in your heart not to use instruments then by all means you should not. You should not judge those of us that see it differently.

So did your church magically appear or was it constructed by the hands of men?
Ac:17:24: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands

Not one of you has addressed the definition of Psalms. Look it up and let me know what you find and how you justify it.

Let all things be done unto edifying.
The Greek words for edify (edify means ‘to make understand or enlighten; inform, educate, instruct, improve; teach’) are Oikodomeo/Oikodome and they are defined as the systematic building, constructing, and confirming of someone or something.


You forgot part of the definition when you went on to explain this. Music can improve worship especially for those of us that cannot sing Music is also a universal language and when you have people in your congregation that are learning english, it informs and teaches to them as well.

You are so closed minded. On Sunday we did not use instruments due to reason other then yours, and it caused me to ponder. Not just anyone can get up there and play instruments, as well as not just anyone can afford them to learn on them. They are also big and cumbersome to carry at times. So maybe there were other reasons the early church did not mention the use of instruments as you seem to think, (Psalms are mentioned repeatedly but no one wants to address the definition) Maybe there was no mention because if God made it mandatory there would be many people who would feel left out because there was no one in there small church who could play. Come on people you are making this a salvation issue? Your language and the hatefulness in your hearts would concern me more if I were you.

Also none has given me any bible reference to the use of tuning forks, individual communion cups, pews, alters, ect... that you seem to find ok in your worship but are not mentioned anywhere in the bible. Help me understand this.

Also no one has addressed the definition of the word Psalms found thru out the new testament.
You are picking and choosing and even omitting yet critiizing others and even condemning them to hell for it.

Matter of fact nothing has been addressed from my earlier letter .


My God is an awesome God

Kimberly

Hello, brothers and sisters. I'm going through similar persecution at my church in Tecumseh, MI so I hope you don't mind if I interject.
The greek definition of the word psalm is psalmos meaning "song sung to the harp". Psalmos is also the derivative of the Greek word "psallein" which means "to pluck play the harp."
Our God encouraged this in Eph 5:19 and Col 4:16

I love you and pray for you all and look forward to the day we will meet. God bless.

Luke 6:36-39

It is so interesting (and sad) how legalists put God in THEIR BOX and fight all the time to keep him in there. God is capable of doing and accepting whatever He so chooses. I do believe the Bible tells us how we get to God through Jesus Christ only but all these opinions expressed in these "proof text" e-mails are nothing more than people's opinions about this and that. The Bible tells us to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. Those are "heart" issues not "legal do it my way or else" issues. We now see dimly in the mirror but we shall see clearly once we are with Him. Is this Park Hill fellowship worshiping and serving God in Spirit and in Truth? That is the question to answer......

Amen!

Yes at Park Hill we are worshiping and serving God in Spirit and in Truth.

152.163.100.68 wrote: God in a box: Yes at Park Hill we are worshiping and serving God in Spirit and in Truth.

While you are stroking your pleasure centers the word was coined by Philo: Paul called it madness, Philo dubbed it Enthus O Mania. External singing and melody creates the mental anxiety Jesus died to REMOVE as the burden the clergy laded on the "payers" and used them like pack animals.

The woman at the Well spoke of worship in PLACES. Jesus responded that the time was and has ALWAYS been that once you have been set free you worship God in the PLACE of your own HUMAN spirit. Being excited is defined as "intoxicated without wine" or "intoxicated on ignorance." In truth means the WORD of God. Paul defined worship ONLY in terms of the synagogue which read and spoke the WORD of Christ which IS Spirit and Life. Paul confirmed that the converted Jews now worshipped in the PLACE of their own spirit as opposed to IN THE FLESH which you are doing:

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Ph.3:3

The reason for keeping worship EXCLUSIVELY in the SPIRIT and devoted to teaching the Word "as it has been taught" is that OUTSIDE are the roaming professional rhetoricians, sophists, singers and musicians who, in the Greek literature, are 100% prostitutes or Sodomites believing that homosexuality bound the FLESH and SPIRIT together.

Beware of DOGS, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision Ph 3:2

The SECTARIAN Hypocrites were ACTORS: they were rhetoricians, SOPHISts, singers, musicians and techne (theater builders and stage managers) and prostitutes. All of these performed SORCERY and because they were all troublemakers they are universally identified as PARASITES. A guitarIST is equated to a PARASITE. The early church of Christ in the Apostolic Constitutions refused to have professional musicians as church members unless they repented and "brought forth fruits of repentance."

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Re.21:8

For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and IDOLATERS, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Re.22:15

There is NO EXCEPTION that religious musicians were IDOLATERS and usually were or used DOGS as priests or "ministers of the gods." Any preacher or professional who claims that God authorizes and DOES NOT UNIVERSALLY CONDEMN making music while pretending to speak for Him are LIARS and SOUL murderers:

They will all go back into hell with Apollyon whose MUSES are defined as the LOCUSTS:

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Re 18:22

Ken

It is interesting how you pick and choose what to answer and what to avoid. Again I ask how do you define Psalms? It is thoughout the new testament but you keep avoiding giving any answer.

Your worship is IN THE BODY and specificially in your pleasure centers. While stimulating one another you FELL VICTIM to preachers who cannot grasp that DAVID thought that God was in the box: the Ark of the Covenant. Therefore, his worship around 'God' was with singing, playing instruments, dancing and undoubtedly MAKING HIMSELF vile as the meaning of his PRAISE WORD.

"Erotic dance was a sacred ritual in ancient Egypt, common in fertility rituals and sex magick. The most famous was the erotic dance of the priestesses of Het Heret [whom the Greeks called Hathor], but also common in the temples of Bast, Aset [Isis], and Nuit.

This was what Miriam did.

The meaning of 'Eve' [ZOE} is disputed. Hawwah is explained in Genesis III. 20 as 'mother of all living'; but this may well be a Hebraicized form of the divine name Heba, hebat, Khebat or Khiba. The goddess, wife of the Hittite Storm-god, is shown riding a lion in a rock-sculpture at Hattrusas--which equates her with Anath-- and appears as a form of ishtar in Hurrian texts.

She was worshipped at Jerusalem (see 27.2). Her Greek name was Hebe, Heracles's goddess-wife.

The word PSALLO means PLUCK: it is inclusive you can only PLUCK WITH YOUR FINGERS. he very definition is EXCLUSIVE, you CANNOT strum or PLUCK WITH A GUITAR PICK. You cannnot blow a flute, beat a drom, play an organ or a piano without VIOLATING Paul's DIRECT COMMAND for the assemply which is NOT pagan worship but a school ofthe Bible.

The word PSALMOS means a song: a song can be read, recited, sung or sung with an instrument. The Psalms were POEMS and "singing" was the limited range of the normal inflection of the human voice. The word ODE is also a song and further defines PSALMOS as a form of HEBREW CANTILLATION. Cantillation are MARKS showing how to CHANT the sacred text including prose. They are way to give accent or commentary on the text: it is NOT musical in the slightest.

Paul put the traditional singing AND melody in the PLACE of the human heart." That is because BOTH were used to sexually arouse people into PLEASURING which was outlawed for the synagogue or church." PSALLO in the external sense pointed directly to the homosexual "ministers of the gods" in pagan religions: it speaks of WARFAR and has NO musical content unless you tell someone to PLUCK a harp string."

If you want to command singing with musical accompaniment, the Bible UNIVERSALLY tells you how to do it. (1) You use a word SING (which can be played), (2) you use the word PLUCK or PLAY, and (3) you ALWAYS define the instrument to be plucked. Psallo would NEVER be used to define blowing a wind or percussion instrument.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an HARLOT. Isa 23:15

In a religious sense, only HARLOTS PLUCKED the harp: David was a shepherd sent to further drive Saul into insanity to make a fool of him:

Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Is.23:16

That is why Jesus spoke in examples and ACTIONS by CASTING OUT the musical minstrels like one EJECTS DUNG. That is because Psalm 41 prophesied that Satan would use people like JUDAS to triumph over and STEAL THE CREDIT by the use of playing instruments and "making a joyful noise before the Lord." The ignorant and superstitious would expect the charismatic (meaning sexual and homosexual) minstrels to have the POWER to bring the gods up or bring them down to do their legalistic WORK. God as WORD came with WORDS as meaning SPIRIT WITHOUT LIMIT specificially to JUDGE the world who believed that SPIRIT was CAUGHT at the sexual and homosexual MUSICAL rituals intended to SELL you the presence of the gods PROVEN by sexual feelings. That would SIFT OUT those who were OF TRUTH from those marked WITH EMOTIONS.

I am going to give you a rest and PROVE to any literate Bible student that Paul INCLUDED speaking or cantillation and EXCLUDED or made UNLAWFUL the form of charismatic "music" you want to make which has NO biblical basis and points 100% to perverted leadership.

Ken

Chris, why don't you slaughter innocent animals to which the Levitical Warrior Musicians were attached: only in Canaan, only in Judah, only in Jerusalem, only AT the temple.

Always in the court yard slaughter pens and burning altar and dung heeps. NEVER in the Holy Place as a type of the Body of Christ where the furniture spoke of the SYNAGOGUE which the officials repudiated. At the same time the PEOPLE'S congregation never sang, never played, never danced and never killed innocent animals: in fact God OUTLAWED in for the Qahal or synagogue or "church in the wilderness.'

Any singer or musician who entered the type of the CHURCH OF CHRIST would have been instantly EXECUTED by his brethren Levites.

Your MUSIC which the Bible calls NOISE in MOCKING and imitating the death of Christ on the Cross just as your Levitical PATTERNISTS did as prophesied and fulfilled. If you have FORCED your slimy bodies into the HOLY PLACE where worship must be REVERENT and with GODLY FEAR you have MARKED yourself and God makes a promise to you:

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:29

Revelation 18 promises that the AGENTS of the Holy Whore of Babylon will all go back into hell with her. As the king/queen of Babylon "to rest on a bed of MAGGOTS along with his/her harps and harpists" as a TYPE of HELL which was "Solomon's music grove" where they burned babies to a musical beat to GET A MESSAGE FROM HELL.

Paul used the word SPEAK, TEACH and ADMONISH which and used words like PSALLO and PSALMOS and ODE which BY THEIR DEFINITION define HEBREW CANTILLATION which is SPEAKING or READING with a small range of notes or natural inflections of the human voice. IF you cannot hear then you cannot HEAR what the people doing SYNAGOGUE heard and what ALL of the church fathers understood and what ALL of the denominational founders heard and what ALL of the denominations in the USA prior to the hostile takeover of AWAKENINGS and VOODOO music in the 1800s heard CLEARLY.

In 1 Cor 13 Paul compared LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS (or Carnal Weapons) to WITCHCRAFT with a hi-tek FAMILIAR SPIRIT or empty wineskin as an echo chamber to get a message from the "gods" or to the SOUNDING BRASS echo chamber which was used as an AMPLIFIER to frighten the enemy into panic. That is the base meaning of PSALLO. Psallo has the BASE meaning of:

Psocho (g5597) pso'-kho; prol. from the same base as 5567; to triturate, i.e. (by anal.) to rub out (kernels from husks with the fingers or hand): - rub.

TRITURATE means to Grind into a FINE POWDER. That was the intention of ALL musical instruments. That included the flute-girls meaning prostitutes who SEDUCED the customers in Corinth to steal their TITHES AND OFFERINGS before they could return home with food for the children.

Psalmos means a SONG. There is NO DEFINITION of "a song played with a harp." You would have to use THREE words: (1) sing, (2) PLUCK and (3) define WHAT is to be plucked.

Otherwise, instrumentalists get their AUTHORITY from the foot of the old towers of babbling where Nimrod had his own Musical Worship Team "to generate morals through external means."

Psalmos EXCLUDES music by INCLUDING cantillation or speaking. It hsas the same meaning as our SONG. When we say "sing us a song" we do NOT mean "with a banjo." and IF we want to ADD the banjo then we must say SING us a SONG and PLAY (pluck) the BANJO. Still can't get it, huh."

Furthermore, Peter warning you about Paul and simplistic treatment of his "scriptures"--hit the ANTI- music theme from so many directions that only those WISHING to ignore the word could handle it with dishonesty. First, look at the word for SONG which is an ODE which excludes instruments and includes SPEAK except in those Greek resources which use Psallo to identify the usual PLUCKING on the harp. We have told you that EVERY example used to prove that Psallo INCLUDES plucking follows the same procedure: you MUST tell people what to PLUCK or they might yank out your hair. In addition, ALL of this plucking of the strings is in the context of homosexual grooming of a young boy where priests ALWAYS had their "youth ministers of the gods."

Psalmos (g5568) psal-mos'; from 5567; a set piece of music,
i.e. a sacred ode
accompanied with
the VOICE,
harp
or other instrument;

a "psalm"); collect. the book of the Psalms: - psalm. Comp. 5603.

Twila Paris or Fanny Crosby or the Voodoo groups who originated "GOSPEL singing" DO NOT write a SACRED ODE.

When the word PSALMOS or SONG is to be sung the HUMAN VOICE is always the FIRST INSTRUMENT OF CHOICE unless you specify OTHERWISE. A BARE-BONES PSALMOS is an ODE and odes EXCLUDES instruments and excludes SINGING in our sense of the word.

Ode (g5603) o-day'; from 103; a chant or "ode" the gen. term for any words sung; while 5215 denotes espec. a religious metrical composition,
and 5568 (psalmos) still more spec. a Heb. CANTILLATION): - song.

Therefore, when you ODE the Psalms or inspired Bible Text you CANNOT have an instrument. If you can't grasp the INTERNAL melody or Grace and insist on using a HARP then Peter's warning is for YOU.

If you again ODE you have to shut your machine's MOUTH.

Using PSALLO we have shown you you can ONLY PLUCK strings which means to yank the string and suddenly LET GO to twang or LEAVE A MARK. That is because Apollo or Abaddon is the FATHER of musical melody and always plucked his BOW and his LYRE in the same event.

Because you rest the deliberate sowing of discord on PSALLO, you cannot STRUM or use a PICK. You cannot blow a flute (meaning to pollute or prostitute) you cannot beat on the cymbal which is a SYMBOL of the LOCUSTS in Hebrew.

According to the Britannica "Melody as TUNEFULNESS belongs to the 19th century." Even then, melody DEMANDS a series of SINGLE TONES and would OUTLAW harmony.

You see, the definition of an ODE makes it CLEAR that PSALMOS is a HEBREW CANTILLATION. You cannot SING and CANTILLATE at the same time any more than you can WALK and RUN at the same time.

By the pale moon light you can SEE that Paul used the word SPEAK. That means speak as in speak.

The SPEAKING was one to another to TEACH: you cannot SPEAK with your guitar pick or by body worship. Paul called them LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS which means CARNAL WEAPONS. You cannot battle principalities and powers in high places who BROUGHT you music to DIVERT you from God's Word by the use of INSTRUMENTS which all authorities admit are claimed to connect to the Devil or Lucifer "the singing and harp playing prostitute.'

The purpose as in the SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST where He invites the twos and threes to "come learn of me" was to SPEAK, to TEACH and to ADMONISH.


There was a LAW against "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord" when you ASSEMBLED which was only for instructions, to read or rehearse the Word.

In Romans 15 PLEASURING (charismatic) is outlawed because the assembly was to GLORIFY GOD using one MIND and one MOUTH and speaking "that which is written." Those songs and sermons were written by the Spirit of Christ.

That is the meaning of ODEING or SPEAKING which was always UNISON until witchcraft and voodoo got into "gospel music" in the 19th century AWAKENINGS which were quite identical to devil worship in Iraq.

Paul warned in Ephesians 5 "don't get drunk with wine." That was a POINTY word which points to the Greek gatherings where one got FLUTED or PIPED down with wine: music and wine make a successful BUSINESS.

"But perhaps nothing was more characteristic of the mystery religions than what they called ecstasy. Believers in the mystery religions sought to cultivate a magical, sensuous communion with the divine. They would do almost anything to get themselves into a semiconscious, hallucinatory, hypnotic, or orgiastic spell in which they believed they were sensually in contact with deity. Some used wine to assist in the euphoric experience, as Paul implied in Ephesians 5:18. Whether from literal intoxication or emotional exhilaration, when worshipers fell into a state of euphoria, it was as if they had been drugged. They assumed they were in contact with God. (MacArthur, John, Charismatic Chaos, p. 164. Zondervan)

This EMOTIONAL drunkeness was not from just drinking wine as people don't drink wine without MUSIC to take more money from the customer. The word Paul used is used to mean to PIPE DOWN or FLUTE DOWN with wine. Because the wine was often fairly mind, the INTOXICATION was defined as spiritual intoxication with passion and pride.

If you ODE the PSALMS Paul has told the AWAKE people that the MODE is not MUSICAL but is COMMANDED to be CANTILLATION. Cantillation is simply raising the pitch of the voice and stretching out the syllables with the normal inflection of SPEAK in order to make your voice heard by a crowd. There was no charismatic SINGING and no INSTRUMENTS in the synagogue or School of the Bible. They spoke the word, Jesus SPOKE the Word, Paul SPOKE the Word and DIRECTLY COMMANDED that we SPEAK the Word.

We have shown you that the MUSICAL words Paul EXCLUDED by INCLUDING the human voice and heart as the INSTRUMENT speak of the homosexual wine and music festivals. They also specificially INCLUDE the form of HEBREW CANTILLATION and that EXCLUDES a Musical worship Team of strange guys promising to LEAD YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD. They produce intoxication in fact, this was often seen as DRUNK ON IGNORANCE.

Ken

I also wonder where in the scriptures exactly it says that song books, tuning forks, individual communion cups, wafers, um what else dos the Church of Christ use in worship that may not be specifically mentioned in the Bible. Are these not aids for worship? I know we will never be on the same page I am just curious and trying to understand. I have no desire to change your thinking because it is mute but please answer.

I also wonder where in the scriptures exactly it says that song books, tuning forks, individual communion cups, wafers, um what else dos the Church of Christ use in worship that may not be specifically mentioned in the Bible. Are these not aids for worship? I know we will never be on the same page I am just curious and trying to understand. I have no desire to change your thinking because it is mute but please answer.

If ALL churches VIOLATED all of the commands, examples and inferences in the Bible that WOULD NOT remove the direct command that Paul commands a style called CANTILLATION which was no more musical than the preacher's sermon. The marks were for emphaisis as I like to overuse BOLD to stess what I think is the important points.

That would not give a jot or tittle of authority for a MUSICAL PERFORMANCE when Jesus promises to come and be our Teacher through the Word. Jesus SPOKE, Paul commanded speaking. When you speak or read the black text on white paper you are less tempted to make it musical and therefore put your lies to a melody to deceive.

That would not remove the fact that Psallo means to PLUCK and is a warfare word related to the BOW used to grind the literal heart into bits by shooting arrows.

That would not remove the fact that ALL of the examples which connect PLUCKING to the HARP implicate male or female prostitutes GOOMING their next victim.

There are several DIRECT COMMANDS outlawing the SONG BOOK as surely as it would outlaw a POPULAR newly inspired BIBLE. Romans 15 demands NO PLEASURING and then speaking with ONE MIND and ONE VOICE and using THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN as the only way to glorify God. If God INCLUDES the songs and sermons written by the Spirit of Christ (1 Pe 1:11, 2 cor 3; Rev 19:10) then that EXCLUDES the blue book. Not until the mid fourth century did SINGING become a regular ACT OF WORSHIP and whe know who and where and why it was introduced. Many churches still use a PSALTER which is a metrical version of the Biblical Psalms which are sung with a little square sequence because the DIRECT COMMAND was to TEACH and LEARN. However, if you add the BLUE BOOK and sow discord with the GOLD BOOK SECTARIANS that DOES NOT change the fact that PSALLO or MELODY spoke to perverted religionists. That does not change the fact that sermonizing and singing and music INTENDS to showcase the performers standing in the holy place and a calculated intention of SILENCING the voice of God.

As for CUPS: the word CUP means CONTENT. At Passover and all other times people had their OWN DRINKING cups: they did not pass and sip:

Lu.22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

Diamerizo (g1266) dee-am-er-id'-zo; from 1223 and 3307; to partition thoroughly (lit. in distribution, fig. in dissension): - cloven, divide, part.

Part does not mean sip. So. At any rate, whether one or individual cups the drinking is not changed. If they spiked the grape juice with Christian Brother's Cummunion wine then it would NOT meet the requirements. Or if they added cookies! Get the point.

However, there is NO MUSIC as worship concept in the entire Bible. The command is to teach and admonish which means PREACH. If you DO MUSIC when the preacher is performing then it is NO LONGER the same thing.

Paul had an INCLUSIVE WORSHIP word at the ASSEMBLY or GATHERING which was always a form of the Greek word SYNAGOGUE. That INCLUSIVE act of worship was to GIVE HEED to the Word of Christ (that which is written) as the ONLY way to GLORIFY God (Romans 15). If the TEAM makes music with Twila Paris then you are violating two direct commands of Paul and REFUSING to give Glory to God by using HIS songs and sermons. Therefore, SPEAKING excludes modern SINGING which did not exist: "Melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century." "That which is written" excludes that which is NOT written. All early churches understood that and this is why singing as an ACT of liturgy had to wait for another 300 or more years.

Eating the Lord's Supper was ADDED to the SYNAGOGUE and there was NO PRAISE SERVICE in the Synagogue or other ACTS other than praying stated Biblical prayers. That is because at the GATHERINGS which was "the church in the wilderness" the ALARM which was "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord was FORBIDDEN." That was because that was the WARRIOR'S PANIC SONG intended to drive the enemy into cowardice. That may be why LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS and CARNAL WEAPONS are from the same concept.

The sowing of discord evaporates when you grasp that church is NOT a pagan worship center but A SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE where Jesus Christ in Spirit invites us to COME LEARN OF ME but only when we SPEAK as the oracle of God meaning speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN or inspired. Then, if you want to MINISTER you can do that with any give you have as a talent. However, the notion that God needs TRAINED SPEAKERS or musicians to AID the worship is contrary to the letter or spirit of the Word. It is in fact, both sectarian and legalistic.

Ken

I have visited this place and they have strayed from NT worship! They may have the Spirit but Truth in worship has left them. All this hand-clapping, twirling around, yelling out-loud to the preacher, praise band goes on there. Where are the Truth warriors there? Why are you not correcting these wayward folks?

"PSALMS" - Understandest thou what thou readest?


YOU GUYS HAVE REALLY GIVEN MEANING TO THESE 2 SCRIPTURES


1Co:1:19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1Co:1:20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


This one goes out to all you out there who are trying your best to justify the use of the piano, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar, drums, flute, harp, saxophone, harmonic, pipe organ, kazoo, bagpipe, piccolo, violin, oboe (and whatever else you can come up with to play and entertain yourselves with);

(Including that guy who emailed me, here is your requested response)

This is for all you who are trying to stuff the right to play all musical instruments into one little teeny-weeny word;



PSALMS



Ok, here we go!

Re: Kimberly's response

Not one of you has addressed the definition of PSALMS. Look it up and let me know what you find and how you justify it.

You forgot part of the definition when you went on to explain this. Music can improve worship especially for those of us that cannot sing Music is also a universal language and when you have people in your congregation that are learning english, it informs and teaches to them as well.

You are so closed minded. On Sunday we did not use instruments due to reason other then yours, and it caused me to ponder. Not just anyone can get up there and play instruments, as well as not just anyone can afford them to learn on them. They are also big and cumbersome to carry at times. So maybe there were other reasons the early church did not mention the use of instruments as you seem to think, (Psalms are mentioned repeatedly but no one wants to address the definition) Maybe there was no mention because if God made it mandatory there would be many people who would feel left out because there was no one in there small church who could play. Come on people you are making this a salvation issue? Your language and the hatefulness in your hearts would concern me more if I were you.


Ok, let us look-up the definition of PSALMS;

Psalms - a sacred song or poem of praise, especially one in the Book of Psalms in the
Bible - Encarta Dictionary

Psalms - a book of the Bible made up of 150 poems and hymns to God, traditionally believed to have been written by King David: Encarta Dictionary

Nothing mentioned about any musical instruments in the definition found in this dictionary.

Now boys and girls, let us see how the word "PSALMS" is used in a sentence.



(And this time let us look at the verses VERY carefully.)



Eph:5:19: Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;



Speaking to yourselves in "PSALMS".



You know, I have heard a lot of musical instruments in my day, but I have NEVER
heard a musical instrument SPEAK to me, have you?

How can you come to the conclusion that this word "PSALMS" is defined as a musical instrument(s) in this passage?


Now let us look at the next verse;


Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in "PSALMS";.


Come to think of it, I have never known a harp or piano to TEACH me any thing either.


If I ever come to the point where a harp, guitar, piano or ANY other instrument starts speaking to me and teaching me, I will immediately go and seek professional help.


Musical instruments do not speak to you (or at least I hope they donot) or teach people in your congregation the English language like you stated above, and they definitely can not edify you.


(If your musical instrument is speaking to you or teaching you English, you just let me know and I will send you some references so you can get psychological help.



Re: Kimberly's response

1Pe:4:11: If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And to those he gives the gift of talent to play a musical instrument. that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I do not have a good voice. In fact it is terrible. I also have no talent in playing a musical instrument. I do have a gift of dance and if I use it to glorify God .... if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:


God also gives different people the talent to play football, hockey, baseball, basketball, ping pong, Donkey Kong, and so on and so on. Just because God has blessed us with a talent it does not mean we are to use it in a worship service to him (and I left out sword-swallowing, you have got to have a lot of talent to do that. Hey snake-charming, now that requires a lot of talent too!)

Now you like to dance for God. Well, Janet Jackson is a very good dancer; hey, and so is Madonna; and there is Brittany, and J Lo, and Michael. Hey they are all very TALENTED and GIFTED. Maybe you can invite them for service I am sure they would love to dance too. But do not try to tell them how to dance for God. They kinda like to do things their own way, sorta like you. (On 2nd thought, do not invite Michael I think he might be tied-up.)




I am sorry that you do not have a good singing voice; just do the best that you can
and hopeful God will understand.




Re: Kimberly's response

I do have a gift of dance and if I use it to glorify God .... if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:


I guess you consider yourself as the "Dance Minister". (Your congregation will probably be looking for one of those in the near future the way things are going now. You had better get some practice in for you can be ready for the auditions. Hopeful Michael J. will choose not to show up or you just might lose out.



Re: Kimberly's response

So did your church magically appear or was it constructed by the hands of men?

Ac:17:24: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Ac:17:25: Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

You think that the Church is a physical building; don't you?

1Co:3:16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Honey. the Church is not a physical building.

If it was a physical building then how can it salute someone?

Ro:16:16: Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

If it were a physically constructed building, then how can a building be edified.

1Co:14:12: Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

I guess here is an example of a Constructed building coming together in one place!


1Co:14:23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?


We as members of the body of Christ make up the Church (or the Church of Christ) spiritually. Our bodies are the temple of God (not made with hands). Remember that God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ro:12:5: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another
Col:1:24: Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Col:1:18: And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

That is one reason why Jesus said;

M't:18:20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There is no need for Christians to meet in a physical building in order to worship God because we worship him in spirit. You can meet outdoors, in a home, or even under a tent. It does not matter, as long as you are worshiping God in spirit and in truth.


Re: Kimberly's response

Well we have all been taught many different traditions sir, so if it is in your heart not to use instruments then by all means you should not. You should not judge those of us that see it differently.


2Th:2:15: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.


This letter was written to the Thessalonians. This letter is not referring to the traditions that were taught to you by your parents or grand parents or great-grand parents. We are instructed to follow the examples of early Christians like the Thessalonians.

I am not judging you. The word of God is judging you.

Re:
You forgot part of the definition when you went on to explain this. Music can improve worship especially for those of us that cannot sing Music is also a universal language and when you have people in your congregation that are learning english, it informs and teaches to them as well.


And all this time I thought people were learning from the words (lyrics) of the songs.

Let us have a show of hands,


How many of us have learned English words by listening to a guitar or piano solo?

How many of us have been INFORMED or TAUGHT the gospel from a musical instrument solo?


Re:
You are so closed minded. On Sunday we did not use instruments due to reason other then yours, and it caused me to ponder. Not just anyone can get up there and play instruments, as well as not just anyone can afford them to learn on them. They are also big and cumbersome to carry at times. So maybe there were other reasons the early church did not mention the use of instruments as you seem to think, (Psalms are mentioned repeatedly but no one wants to address the definition) Maybe there was no mention because if God made it mandatory there would be many people who would feel left out because there was no one in there small church who could play. Come on people you are making this a salvation issue? Your language and the hatefulness in your hearts would concern me more if I were you.

Also none has given me any bible reference to the use of tuning forks, individual communion cups, pews, alters, ect... that you seem to find ok in your worship but are not mentioned anywhere in the bible. Help me understand this.



2Tm:2:23: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes
2Tm:2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Tm:2:16: But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Tm:2:17: And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Tm:2:18: Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Tm:2:19: Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


I am not too concerned about hurting your feelings at this point. When Christians attack the Word of God and the Church of Christ with the ferocity that I have seen in your situation, I will take the spiritual Sword that God has provided us with and cut those ungodly opinions and philosophies that I have seen written above to shreds.
Nothing personal,
But I must do my Christian duty.



Heb:4:12: For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I must follow the examples that Paul was inspired to write:

Eph:6:10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph:6:14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph:6:15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph:6:18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph:6:19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph:6:20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Let us recap the biblical facts, again:

1. God does not need, want, or even value our opinions on how to worship him. We are instructed to hear his beloved Son.
2. If we are to speak, let us speak as the oracles of God.
3. We are to continue steadfastly in the doctrine and tradition of the early Christians.
4. God is not to be worshipped with the hands of men.
5. God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
6. We are instructed to teach and admonish one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
7. All things should be done for the edification of the Church.
8. Mechanical Instruments can not edify anyone.
9. We are not commanded to follow the worship examples of an Old Testament Church; there never was one.

We should let God tell us how to worship God.

If you have any problems with these biblical facts then complain to God about them; I have only presented the facts so that the sincere in heart would be able to read and understand the truth. To all you who do not want to know the truth, who only want to have their own way with God's Church, I will pray for you.

Ga:1:9: As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Ga:1:11: But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.


Again, I will leave you with the WORDS OF KING JESUS.


Lu:4:4: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


In Jesus'name.

seekingtopleaseGodonly:

You said that so perfectly and in such good humor that I have decided to steal it and put my name on it.

Thanks, Ken

But how can we recapture and put the Truth back into this congregation as well as many others that are being taken over by "community church" and "purpose-driven" deception? Obviously this is a problem all over the Bible-belt from what I read on this web-site. We need some of you bright people to come up with a common sense "how-to" stop this "junk" in it's tracks once it starts invading a congregation. Can you help us?!!!!!

Thank you for answering and so sorry you took offense. Still confused but that is ok. I really do wonder why Park Hill is being so cruelly attacked. The church of christ has been removed from the name and so has the association with Cofc. Seems a mute point for this web page to spend so much time on. But it has provided me with some amusement and I have studied scripture that I may have missed. I guess we will see in the end, I am just greatful that I am not bogged down by so much hate and mean spiritedness.

I will continue to live with the Joy of the Lord and pray that someday you too will find that peace and joy. With Him all things are possible.

God Bless and see you in the end.

Kimberly

Good news for you, I am done visitng with you on this. It has been intereting to say the least.

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

There are some who are asking for help on what to do when they suspect that their congregation is being taken over by the change artists.


First let me say that there is no easy answer. This situation is being carried out by a group of people in high places. The efforts and tactics of this organization seem to give meaning to these following verses:



Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


Here are some things that we as Christians can do to fight the good fight of faith in this situation.


1. Pray

Pray for your congregation and all bodies of Christ that are facing this evil effort to overtake the Lord's Church. Pray that the Word of God will prevail therein. Also pray for guidance from above that God may lead us in the way that we should go.

1Th:5:17: Pray without ceasing.
1Pe:3:12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2Th:3:1: Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2. Study

We must study so that we will not be fooled by the subtle and deceptive ways of Satan; We must understand that Satan has attacked the Word of God from the beginning in his efforts to lead us away from God. By changing his Word(adding and subtracting from it) and enticing us with the vanities and pleasures of this world, Satan lures us into sin and disobedience.

Ge:3:1: Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Ge:3:2: And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Ge:3:3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Ge:3:4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Remember Satan is a liar, and those who are leading the efforts to take over Christ's Church are liars. Like in the passage above in many instances Satan begins with small changes (he only added one additional word to what God had said, the word not) and then builds upon these changes.

God cannot lie. When you find lies in these modern bibles (such as in M'r:1:2) than you know they are not of God. We must have the pure Word of God or we will be led astray. Utilize The Ultimate Bible Test (http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=187120&messageid=1114318811)
to prove the whether are not a modern bible is of God. God has provided us a way to test the spirits, whether they be of God or whether they be of a deceiver and/or an antichrist. You will see that these modern bibles cannot pass this test because they are not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

We must learn of him to be able to teach others of him, and in order to truly learn of him we must begin we his true Word.



2Tm:2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ac:17:11: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


We must study and study often so that we will be ready to answer and to defend the Lord's Church.

There are many, many web sites that are available to learn about the history of the Word of God.


Here are some links for educational study purposes on the history of the King James Translation (again these are only for educational purposes, I do not endorse any doctrinal statements of these sites):

Modern Bibles weaken God's Promise to Preserve His Word
http://aliveinchrist040801.tripod.com/nopreserv.htm

Your Bible questions answered.
http://www.chick.com/search/searchask/questionans.asp

ABOUT THE KING JAMES PAGES
http://www.holybible.com/resources/about_kjv.htm

Why should I use the King James translation?
http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/ans001.asp

INTRODUCTION TO THE TRANSLATION
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/transtoc.htm#toc

A Brief History of the King James Bible
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html

The King James Controversy:
A Biblical View
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/king.htm

"SPIRITUAL DECEPTION IN THE HIGHEST"
http://www.concernedmembers.com/spiritualdeception.htm

ANOTHER BIBLE ~ ANOTHER GOSPEL
http://watch.pair.com/another.html

Bible Version Issue
http://www.biblebelievers.com/BibleVersions.html

THE AV 1611: Purified Seven Times (interesting)
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance5.html

The New King James Counterfeit
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html


3. Teach

2Tm:2:24: And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


Print or copy information that you think will be useful and discuss it with others who are seeking to please God.


4. Fight

1Tm:6:11: But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Tm:6:12: Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Stand up for Jesus. Utilize this site and any other means that you find appropriate to get the word out to as many as possible.

This corruption in the Church cannot survive unless it has the perverted modern versions such as the NIV, NASB, NKJV, and others to back-up its deceptive practices. This site is a powerful tool that can be utilized to inform the masses. Tell members of your congregation about this site and invite as many as possible to join in the discussions.


5. Preach

Preach the Word of God. Encourage others to stand up for God's Word and(his) Church. Rebuke those who continue to error in doctrine.

2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Jas:4:7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas:4:8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Eph:6:10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph:6:14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph:6:15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph:6:18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph:6:19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph:6:20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

6. Shine

Be a good example to others who are in your situation by letting your light so shine before men.

M't:5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
M't:5:15: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
M't:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

7. Do all in name of the Lord.

Never forget who we are fighting for; we can not fight this battle alone. We must enlist the powers from above and do all in the name of the Lord.

Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col:3:17: And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.



May God bless you all.

In Jesus name.

Who are "these group of people in high places" that you refer to?

Let us see the true love of Jesus!

There are some who think that Christians should not strongly defend the Church? They are quick to ask, "where is the love?" or they struggle to "Jesus in all of it", when Christians boldly defend the Church.

Well let us see the true love of Jesus?

Jesus loved Peter enough to correct him sternly when Peter was in error, even though he was only to trying to do a good deed. But Jesus called Peter Satan!

Was this a show of LOVE?

We must understand that sometimes what appears to be a good idea to us may not be within the will of God. This is why it is so important to study God's inspired Word so that we will know exactly what he wants us to do. (And I am not referring those corrupted modern version bibles that are confusing people by the millions. Those are not God's inspired Word.):

M'r:8:31: And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
M'r:8:32: And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
M'r:8:33: But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Satan will sometimes fool us by making something that is so contrary to the will of God seem to be such a great idea. So great that we will fight against those who are trying to correct us because we have become so spiritually blind. Then when that person has to resort to using a stern rebuke, we struggle to see Jesus in all of it. When we are spiritually blind it is very hard to see Jesus because we are walking in spiritual darkness.

Remember Jesus is LOVE!

So when you ask, "Where is the love?", please be able to know and understand what love is.

Now let us look at another example of the LOVE of Jesus;

M'r:11:15: And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
M'r:11:16: And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
M'r:11:17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
M'r:11:18: And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

We see here in this situation that Jesus has walked in on those who were supposed to be taking care of the Temple. What did Jesus do? Did he go in and fall down on his knees and beg them to stop disobeying God's Word? What did he do?

He cast them out of the place and overthrew their tables!

Is this an example of loving one another?

What would Jesus do if he was to physically walk into your church service today? How would he reply to some of the post on this site if he was to log in and read some of things I have read?

If you are going to speak for Jesus you need to learn of him first. You need to learn his ways.

M't:11:29: Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

It is not a sin to be angry and sternly rebuke someone, especially when their words are being read by so many.

The Bible says:

Eph:4:26: Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

It also says:

1Tm:5:19: Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
1Tm:5:20: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Tm:5:21: I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Ti:1:10: For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Ti:1:11: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Ti:1:12: One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Ti:1:13: This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Ti:2:15: These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

As I read some of the stuff being posted on this site, I feel like Jesus must have felt when he went into the temple and begin to overthrow the tables. There are a lot of tables that need to be overthrown on this site.

Yes, Jesus is Love, but the love of Jesus goes deeper than some of us understand at this point.

You see the love of Jesus in this instance can be compared to the love of a mother or father who must not spare the rod in order not to spoil the child.


Proverb:13:24: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
Proverb:23:13: Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Proverb:23:14: Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.


If we do not try to correct someone who is heading down a path of destruction, even if we know that this person will hate us for correcting them, can we truly say that we love them.

If you really love someone, than you will try to stop them from destroying themselves, even if they will hate you for doing it.

Just because we live under the Grace of God that does not mean that we can do whatever the heck we want to do in his Church!

That idea is just plain stupid!

There are some of us that actually think that the details of worshiping God" are not important. If you are of this belief than I would advise you to search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life.

If you want to do whatever you want in Christ's church then you just go right ahead. But I want you to know that you will have to answer for what you do in the End.

Joh:5:38: And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh:5:39: Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I love the Church of Christ; I am not trying to be hateful, but sometimes the truth will hurt.

Sometimes it takes more than kind words.

Jesus said:
Lu:6:46: And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?.
M't:7:21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
M't:7:22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
M't:7:23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Joh:14:15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh:14:23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

This is the true Love of Jesus. He does not always spare the rod!

I will follow King Jesus.

Will you?

In Jesus name.

An earthly parents love for their child includes discipline and correction (along with love and grace too). If a child is using drugs (ie.instrumantal music, purpose driven church,so-called praise music,clapping,jumping around, other "drugs" that have come into this body of Christ) then the parent must practice "tough love" and not beat around the bush and hope the child gets off drugs. That is what alot of us are doing....hoping we can get rid of the "drugs" invading our churches and really DOING NOTHING to stop this destruction! Where are the soldiers? I see very few anywhere!

What Group of people?

Here is a passage taken from a link on this web site (CM): The Unholy Alliance - Christianity & The NOW.


I have only posted a small portion of the passage. Click on the link in order to read the rest of it.

http://www.rense.com/general20/unholy.htm


Council of 56 of the Religious Roundtable
Another Moon associated group is called the 'Council of 56 of the Religious Roundtable'. This group is made up of many of the same members from Rev. Moons' CNP and CRF organizations. It marries leading Moon associated evangelicals to the CIA, the Council for Foreign relations, the Trilateral Commission and Freemasonry. CFR, and TLC are closely tied to the Bilderberg group.

The list of members of the Council of 56 of the Religious Roundtable can be found here http://www.pir.org/gw/rrt.txt

GroupWatch was compiled by
The Interhemispheric Resource Center,
Box 4506,
Albuquerque, NM 87196.
http://www.irc-online.org/


GroupWatch files are available at http://www.pir.org/gw/Group:
Religious Roundtable File Name: rrt.txt
Last Updated: 4/93



Unity: A One World Religion?
In light of the ties between nearly all Christian "evangelicals" with Rev. Moon, the CIA, the Council for Foreign Relations, the Trilateral commission, the Bush family and Bush Sr's "New World Order", is it any wonder that after the September 11th tragedy, Billy Graham prayed in the name of God, AND ALLAH, as dignitaries from many faiths were gathered before him? This prayer was broadcast the world over. His call was for religious cooperation and 'unity of all faiths,' the trump of Rev. Moon.

Franklin Graham's (son of world renowned evangelist Rev. Billy Graham, and heir to the very lucrative and influential Billy Graham Evangelistic Ministries) answer to a question by NBC's Tom Brokaw, ..."it's very important that all the faiths, all the denominations are coming together, cooperating together, working together; it is a wonderful testimony to the spirit of America, and the dedication of the American people."

Moon also owns the Washington Times, THE conservative voice of the nation. Though this establishment should have gone under several years ago, Moon pours multi-millions of dollars annually into this paper. He also owns the publication "Insight". He indeed owns many businesses and operates in media of several nations worldwide.


Conclusion
What do Rev. Moon, leading Christian evangelicals and the American government have in common? And, just what does this have to do with the "New World Order," as (re)coined by George Bush Sr.? There can be no doubt that these dark elements of government, industry, banking, and intelligence are leading us into their new world order, and their influence has been extended to nearly every Christian in the world through these leading evangelicals who claim to represent Christ. Perhaps this Rev. Moon quote from August 4th 1996 may give us a little more "insight"...

"Americans who continue to maintain their privacy and extreme individualism are foolish people... The world will reject Americans who continue to be so foolish. Once you have this great power of love, which is big enough to swallow entire America, there may be some individuals who complain inside your stomach. However, they will be digested."

Could this be the 'falling away' of the Church so often preached by these same evangelicals? The great 'apostasy' which will, in the last days render much of the Christian Church faithless to their original calling and subject to the manipulation, will and prophesied plans of the 'Antichrist'?


Eph:6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


In Jesus Name

This church has gone totally away from the truth and we got out of there. Sad another CofC has fallen by the wayside....

This truly breaks my heart. Ken Sublett, you seem to be a man filled with hatred with a legion of hateful followers. Why must people treat one another like this? We of the church of Christ have confused doctrine and tradition with the Word of God. For some terrible reason we do not seem to believe that God extends grace to those who do not see our traditions as the Truth. We take pride in knowing the "Truth" and don't care to share it with anyone else. Why are we so hateful and self righteous? When did the church become a country club?
Also, I noticed some hatefuls remarks directed towards the Catholic church. You only say these things because you are unable to view the church of Christ as the denomination it has become. The church of Christ as it is has far more in common with the Catholic church than people care to admit.
Why do so many of you post anonymously? What do you have to hide if you are indeed proclaiming the Truth?
This is my first and last post. This site truly disgusts me. I do not care to visit it again.