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Park Hill Church of Christ changes name! Fort Worth, Tx.

March 4 2005 at 3:32 PM
Just Concerned with everyone Else  (no login)
from IP address 64.207.58.133

Now the Park Hill Church of Christ in Fort Worth, Tx. has become the "Park Hill Church-A Christ-Centered Fellowship"!Wonder where that came from? They went to recorded instrumental music then praise teams and now acapalla and a Prasie band! These folks came out of the Southside congregation about 8 years ago and look where they are now! What exactly is the Southside church spreading around?


    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 68.19.233.96 on Mar 5, 2005 4:16 PM


 
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AuthorReply
Saved by Grace
(no login)
66.169.97.142

Re: Park Hill Church of Christ changes name! Fort Worth, Tx.

March 6 2005, 2:50 PM 

From your message I cannot tell whether you are for Parkhill or against it? Have you even been there? This is a church that has freed itself from the baggage of "man-made" legalism and had chosen to focus on the fact that each of us can be saved by Grace. I get so frustrated by those of you that can't seem to grasp the concept that YOU have nothing to do with your salvation. You didn't earn it - You can't buy it - and you certainly can't get it by listening only to acappella music, taking communion every sunday, and making sure the top of the head actually got submerged. I invite you to come visit.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
68.116.150.140

What's your problem

March 7 2005, 8:05 PM 

We are just concerned about how this church has been taken over by folks like you. I am not closed minded or legalistic. They should have not abandoned the Biblical name and the biblical way to correctly worship. I understand they are letting anyone into fellowship without any tests of faith too..

 
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Jesse
(no login)
207.65.228.87

What's your problem

March 10 2005, 10:16 AM 

Sounds like the beginning of the end for this group of "Christians". It is so sad to see liberal, progressive, purpose-driven apostates destroying the Church of Christ. You are to be pitied and prayed for because you are blindly following corrupt leaders. Probably, someone that is involved has something to gain of a material nature. Book sales boom when another Church of any faith is suckered into this whirlwind. Apostasy is certainly condemned in the Scriptures so this cannot be called "judgemental".

The Hohenwald Church of Christ in Hohenwald, Tn began this downhill climb a few years ago, slowed down when their sneaky, perverted changes were discovered, reversed a little and now is gaining momentum again. One of the "younger" preachers of the congregation is now preaching in demominational churches while remaining active in the congregation. Wonder if it is the money? Sometimes a little extra cash is tempting.

There are so many churches that are now apostate and I don't quite understand what hope you have in light of the cost, both in loss of Godly, sincere christian men and women and in the loss of respect in your community.
Jesse

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
207.65.228.87

What's your problem

March 10 2005, 10:21 AM 

Sorry, What"s your problem. My reference should have been to anonymous. He/she is the one lacking a proper understanding of the scriptures.
Jesse

 
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Richard Logan
(no login)
66.76.8.42

correctly worship

September 30 2012, 1:30 PM 

Hey anonymous,
Why don't you give us all book chapter and verse for the correct scriptural way to worship? I bet you a dollar you can't show me. It's not in the bible at all. The whole 'scriptural" worship service we partake in today is nothing more than a man-made ceremony. There is no scriptural basis for the way we do worship. It's real easy to take bits and piece from the bible and conjure up something...that whole worship service is false. Your whole life should be in worship to the creator. That corporate worship service is nothing more than a time for us to fellowship with one another and to strengthen our bond with fellow Christians. It's no the be all an end all of our relationship with God. There is not one ritual we perform today that is in any way connected to what I've read in the bible. Your Christianity is a personal thing, not a collective thing. We are each going to answer for our sins, not as a congregation.
You need to get over the fact that we are not going to be saved or condemned by an authorized worship service. You go ahead and keep preaching your man made doctrine and I'll do my best to live a Christ like life. I can back up what I know to be true; it's in the bible in plain text and in black and white. Your worship service is nothing more than a "made-up" ceremony by someone who can't understand the concept of freedom from the law and it's rituals. You cannot show me your authorized worship service because it is not bible based. It took me along time to understand that, THANK GOD I finally figured that out.
The church of Christ isn't the only denomination that preaches these man made rules. It's interesting to note that there is not 15 cents worth of difference in the church of Christ and all the rest of the congregations that call themselves Christians. We are all bound together in a common faith and that is Christ Crucified for forgiveness of our sins. If a person preaches that they are my brother or sister in Christ. Anything else and then you need to read Romans the 14th chapter, it's about differences of opinion concerning what is good and holy. I could type the whole thing out, but you can go read it for yourself.

 
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Ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.64.238

Re: correctly worship

October 1 2012, 8:42 PM 

You are mostly right: Christ the Rock defined the qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the Wilderness both inclusively and exclusively.

INCLUSIVE of Rest, Reading and Rehearsing
EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing.

[linked image]

That never changed so that both Gentiles and Jews were wise unto salvation:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Since Christ forbids private interpretation which means further expounding, if someone wanted to REVISE the church to fit the pattern in their own minds, Paul has cut you off by DIRECT COMMANDS-- if you can read the text.

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. disceptationibus cogitationum

Forbidden:

Cogitatio a thinking, considering, deliberating; thought, reflection, meditation (in good prose, and very freq.).
A. Concr., a thought, opinion, judgment; a resolution, design. plan, project:
phrontides sophterai):
ista cogitatio de triumpho, thought as an intellectual power, the ability of thinking, power or faculty of thought, the reasoning power

Forbidden:

sophos , , on, A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s.
trained in speaking all the resources that I have, wisdom overmuch is no wisdom II. of things, cleverly devised, wise, nomos [1449a] [1] so is the Margites to our comedies.

sophia , music and singing, tekhn kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, in divination, cunning, shrewdness, craft.


Because Church is a School of "that which is written." Nothing can change the ONE PIECE PATTERN because God knew that none of us are smart enough to modernize the church by COMMANDING what it FORBIDS..

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

aedfcto , loquitur ad aedificationem, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 3; 14, 26.ad aedificationem Ecclesiae, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 12; ib. Eph. 4, 12.
Speaking is in "whispering or conversational tones." Logos is the opposite of music, poetry or rhetoric (sermonizing.

deliramenta, id. Am. 2, 2, 64: quas tu mulieres quos tu parasitos loquere, id. Men. 2, 2, 47:


The Campbell's affirmed:

Church: A School of Christ
Worship: Reading and Musing the Word.

Unfortunately, since even congregational singing in the ACappella or ORGANUM meaning after the Pipe Organ, and do not sing that which is written, the effect of instruments and complex harmony has the same effect of Making the Lambs dumb before the slaughter.

The Restoration had the same ideal as that of John Calvin who called for A Restoration of the Church of Christ which allowed non of the performing arts and crafts Christ in Ezekiel 33 marked as of the hypocrites.

 
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Richard Logan
(no login)
66.76.8.42

re: Correctly Worship

October 1 2012, 9:42 PM 

Mr. Sublett,
I actually mostly agree with lots of things you say. I must also admit that it has taken me a while to decipher some of the things you talk about, but I know I can agree with you more than disagree.
I read another post of your's over on the Madison page, about hirelings and such, and I have to agree with you whole heartedly about that. Jesus did pay it all, and church shouldn't cost us a fortune. I've always believed that the individual person was better at taking care of their own money than someone else. I don't put a lot in the offering plate on Sunday, but I do give money away to people in need, when I can afford to. I liked your particular post about confessing sins, and to whom we ought to be confessing to.
Where you and I wouldn't agree is in the singing. I am a singer, and I can promise you that I'm not a homosexual. Anyone that knows me would laugh at the thought of that. I'm a song leader at a fairly large congregation (500+) and I don't get paid a dime to do it. I have a real job where I earn my money. In fact, I would never take a dime of money for the ability that God gave me to lead singing. I wouldn't attend a congregation that hired a worship leader (whatever that means).
I've been in a service with Keith Lancaster before and he isn't any better than a lot of un-paid song leader's I've listened too. I like Keith, but don't agree that he should be paid to sing at church (I told him this to his face). I actually sang on one of his congregation CD's several years ago. There are way to many people out there who'd do it for free and do just as well as Keith. I think some churches have gone too far and are more into putting on a show; that's not me though. When I lead singing, it comes from my heart, and I'd like to believe if it ever became more about me impressing people, and not singing praise to God, that I'd quit leading singing.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.64.238

Re: re: Correctly Worship

October 2 2012, 5:28 PM 

Where you and I wouldn't agree is in the singing. I am a singer, and I can promise you that I'm not a homosexual. Anyone that knows me would laugh at the thought of that. I'm a song leader at a fairly large congregation (500+) and I don't get paid a dime to do it. I have a real job where I earn my money. In fact, I would never take a dime of money for the ability that God gave me to lead singing. I wouldn't attend a congregation that hired a worship leader (whatever that means).

I wasn't speaking of song leaders but so called "worship leaders with their CCM." Lots of people affirm that the new praizy songs are written so that instruments are almost demanded and that leads to literal instruments.

I would be happy to see someone grasp that Romans 15 is another one of those "not musical" commands to speak that which is written for our learning. If you listen to some of the old fashioned Baptist or Holiness preachers you will hear someone who can SING THE TEXT but not in the "tuneful sense."

After all, the command is to TEACH one another and I would rather listen to the Biblical text than to sentimental poetry.

Either "worship teams" or instruments have a way of silencing the congregational singing and making it a show.


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
71.8.113.38

Jello faith

March 18 2005, 11:04 PM 

You are a sad case of "feel good" church...need to get back into the Word brother! I will visit there next Sunday and see exactly what is going on but I think I already know!

 
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anonymous
(no login)
67.141.173.182

Re: Jello faith

April 4 2005, 2:38 PM 

as opposed to a "feel bad" church? I'll take the feel good church.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
71.8.113.38

Only worship to Feel Good?

April 6 2005, 7:20 PM 

If you worship in spirit and TRUTH you will not "feel bad" but righteous through Christ who instructed how to worship correctly. Who are you worshipping (?) Mr./Mrs. "Feel Good"? Get back into the Word and learn how to correct your wayward ways.

 
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Puzzled
(no login)
67.140.116.81

feel good church

April 13 2005, 3:58 PM 

Anonymous
How in the world can you discern whay I believe from the statement "as opposed to a "feel bad" church? I'll take the feel good church." How does that statement make my ways wayward? Whew!

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
71.8.113.38

Visited

March 20 2005, 6:29 PM 

Ok I went to this church today (you invited me) and some Holy Spirit "expert" was teaching the adult class on the Holy Spirit. Said he was an attorney and former Highland CofC (Abilene) preacher many years ago...Chalk... I think. Very articulate guy and knows the scripture well but I had never heard that the Spirit leads us to do all that! The worship service used a "praise BAND" and acapella singing with a praise group miked up front. Some people clapping and twirling around and yelling praise words! Is this type of stuff going on EVERYWHERE???? The lesson was very Biblical..on the entry of Jesus to Jerusalem for the final time. Lord's supper was very Biblical. And the people there seemed to be happy and joyful and truly full of worship. I think I will give it another try next week but I hope some leaders at this place will come to their senses and get back to the correct and true, bible based worship.

 
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Jonathan David Myers
(no login)
152.163.100.68

Glad you visited...........

April 8 2005, 2:17 AM 

I am really glad you visited Park Hill and took notes. I just wanted to invite you back and request that you get to know some of the folks that worship there. You might be surprised how many likable people are there. We love visitors and would welcome you back in a heartbeat, just give us a chance to get to know you. We admit that we don't have all the answers and never will but we are doing our best to create a forum for people to meet the Father face to face and have their lives changed by his work.
Please introduce yourself to the youth minister at Park Hill, I bet your conversations could be lively!
I will look for you on Sunday! God bless you as you continue to seek His will in your life!

 
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R.A.M.
(no login)
68.19.255.232

(response to the initial response at top of this section)

March 24 2005, 8:03 PM 

If you have nothing to do with your own salvation then, conversely, the lost really have nothing to do with their unsaved state - they're not really responsible since "who can stand against God?" This entire line of reasoning falls right in line with the popular secular view of the day which says our mistakes are actually the fault of someone else. Imagine if that someone else is GOD!

The reformed theology must logically conclude that God must be the originator of sin, since he is responsible for everything. Think it through, friend. It is not "the most God-honoring theology", as advertised.

 
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Andrew
(no login)
71.91.126.230

Logic...

August 4 2006, 10:11 AM 

It appears someone never took a logic class. You cannot argue the converse of a statement. It is not true. Which is the point you were making. But its irrelevent. A converse by definition can be true, but does not have to be. Perhaps taking a course in mathmatical logic would aid your cause in making informed, intelligent Biblical arguments.

 
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Randall T.
(no login)
68.19.255.161

Chosen But Free, by Norman Geisler

April 1 2005, 6:19 PM 

For those in our fellowship who have obviously been taught only one side of the 'saved by grace' - without the understanding of 'saved by grace through faith' concept -, please invest a few dollars and a few days with this book: Chosen But Free, A Balanced View of Divine Election (Bethany House, 2001) Incidentally the author isn't C of C, and this isn't some old book from the 1950's.
On page 24 he gets right to the point, referring to extreme Calvinism: "...here is the unmistakable conclusion: both Lucifer and Adam sinned because God gave them the desire to sin...(p.25) What is more, if evil actions have no cause, then no one can be held responsible for them. But both good moral reason and Scripture inform us that free creatures are held morally responsible for their choices."
(p.48)...extreme Calvinism...involves a denial of human free choise, which is supported by both Scripture and good reason. Second, 'irrestible grace' on the unwilling is a violation of free choice. ...Third, (it) leads logically to a denial of God's omnibenevolence (all-lovingness) (see I John 4:16 and John 3:16) In fact, if God is one indivisible being without any parts, as classical Calvinists believe, then his love extends to ALL of his essence, not just part of it. Hence, God cannot be partly loving."

Please read some of the other side, brothers, before you purchase this misleading 'package deal.' It's not 'all glory to God' when it makes God the originator of sin and inconsistent with what he reveals about himself in the Word.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.207.58.133

You Have Issues

April 4 2005, 2:15 PM 

Brother..Sounds like you have some serious issues with the Biblical way to worship and with salvation.A through study of the Word will correct your "community church" view of the important issues. You are being mislead at this CofC that has left the faith and adopted this PurposeDriven slop that has perverted the Truth at this place. I suggest you contact a man GROUNDED IN THE WORD...several good Churches of Christ in the FW area....and let him correct and teach you the Way in love.

 
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Jonathan David Myers
(no login)
152.163.100.68

A Man grounded in the word..........

April 8 2005, 2:22 AM 

I was just wondering if you had ever talked to the preacher at Park Hill Church, A Christ-Centered Fellowship, you might be delighted at his background and his heart for the autonymous body that meets there!
Just a suggestion from a concerned member!

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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