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Anonymous
(no login)
64.123.189.137

Re: God's Word

September 8 2005, 10:37 PM 

Reasoner

I agree with you about Ken.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.39

Silence

September 9 2005, 11:27 AM 

What part of SILENT and SEDENTARY do you not understand?

 
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Evon
(no login)
192.112.2.60

Your Answer

September 15 2005, 10:09 AM 

Dear Reasoner,

The Truth is in reference to the word of God, not my opinion.

There is a battle in the Churches of Christ and it's about Traditionalism. How far can you go towards nontraditional worship and not go against the beliefs of the church? I don't think I commented directly on what was witnessed at Central Pointe.

My comments were very direct in telling us to read the Bible for ourselves and we will find the Truth. Now, after reading the Bible and your congregation isn't worshiping based on what you have read, then you should do what is best for you.

I am more concerned about the laziness in the church and the influence of super churches that is causing the Churches of Christ to no longer keep our beliefs and put the souls of its members in jeopardy. I don't care what is going on in other churches because if it feels wrong to me, I move my membership.

I also commented on members of the church placing the preacher on a pedastal. A preacher should be treated like another member of the congregation. My "opinion" is a preacher shouldn't be paid by the church to do what he is "called" or "chosen" to do. Preaching has become an occupation for some. And the members help create these kinds of preachers. We need to examine that. The love of money is the root to all evil. Because a preacher is of the flesh, he can develop a lust for money and conduct service to attract money---not souls!

Finally! NUMBERS DON'T MEAN NOTHING!!!

Just because a church has alot of members, active members, doesn't mean they are bearing good fruit. Look back in history and examine the churches with large numbers whose leaders were and still are living secret lives. They did alot of things for people, they had large numbers, traveled, led many to Christ and the preacher was doing wrong! What does that say about the messages he was teaching? Was he teaching those people right? What happened to those people?

We are old enough to ready with understanding and respond accordingly. Of course, no one will tell a preacher he is worshiping out of order. I mean let's be realistic.

I am curious to know what reason Bro Dulin gave for being rebaptised? And why did he wait until he got in the new building to do so?
If anyone knows, can you tell me?

Love,
Evon

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.21

Hitting the pin on the head!

September 15 2005, 1:06 PM 

Undoubtedly there have been times when hired hands--the meaning of HIRELING--did more good than DAMAGE. But, those days have passed. Preachers are actually being trained as Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators to go out and MANIPULATE the change.

When they UP THE ANTE and claim to be dominant it is time to crack some spiritual knee caps and get them an honest job or get them a ticket on the next ass heading north as they did in the early churches after two or three days to deliver what THEY KNEW that others DID NOT KNOW.

So, you should spread the word that THE LAW OF GIVING is a big fat lie and liars will burn in hell. Paul claimed that even the pressure of his presence during collection for the DESTITUTE and not one penney for the INSTITUTE would constitute extortion which he lumps with adultery.

Now, they have CRASHED THE CROSS by insisting on the LAW OF TITHING. That, a dominant pastor person and "praise singing" are MARKS of a Judaized institution. SO JUST SAY NO and you will have the Bible and all known history on your side. Here is my collection of absolute proof: Copy and MASS MAIL

http://www.piney.com/ChMinistry.html

    THE HIRED PASTOR.
    By T. R. Burnett

    I am a hired pastor,
    And ride the modern hob,
    I preach for stated salary,
    And stay upon the job.

    I set aside the bishops,
    And leave them in the lurch,
    What use is there for elders,
    When I preach TO THE CHURCH?

    The Lord said, "GO ye therefore,"
    That was the olden way,
    But by my new translation
    It simply means TO STAY!

    Paul once said to the elders,
    (My little soul to shock!)
    Down there at old Miletus,
    That they should "feed the flock."

    But Paul was an old fogy,
    Way back in eastern clime,
    And did not know the customs
    Of this great modern time.

    You now must have a preacher,
    (Please shout that long and loud!)
    In all the towns and cities,
    Or you can't draw the crowd.

    The Baptists have a pastor,
    The smartest in the land,
    Digressives have an organ,
    And play to beat the band.

    If you don't ape the fashions,
    You very soon will find
    That all the sects and parties
    Have left you far behind.

    You need not hurt your conscience
    With an un-Bible name,
    Just call him your EVANGELIST,
    I'll PASTOR just the same!

    When I was young and greener,
    I worked by the old plan,
    I knew the word evangelist
    Then meant a traveling man.

    I went forth with my message,
    God's power to save from sin,
    I SOUNDED OUT the gospel,
    But now I sound it IN!

    To keep the church converted,
    And free from every fear,
    I draw a handsome salary,
    One thousand plunks a year!

    Farewell, ye old bush arbors,
    Ye once had your reward,
    Beneath your kindly shelter
    I used to "trust the Lord."

    But God is now insolvent,
    In city, town, and ville,
    A church goes his security
    For my big gospel bill!

    Ho, all LOCATED preachers,
    (That sound a bit absurd!)
    We'll show those old apostles
    How we SOUND IN the word!

    Good-by, ye Bible model,
    Farewell, ye ancient plea,
    Sing loud, ye hired preacher,
    "Nearer, my JOB, to thee!"

 
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Open Heart
(no login)
70.128.184.68

Are you a true questioner?

September 15 2005, 11:38 PM 

Your message was filled with your beliefs and that's ok and please do not be offended if I take a position. But I had to ask these questions of you first.
Why would you ask a question about someone (christian)and you haven't asked that question personally? Are you ashamed of what you believe? Are you questioning someone's baptism? Is it for the good of the person who was rebaptized? Was it an answer to a good conscience? Do you follow scripture as you say you do? Has his rededication to God hindered the church from growing? Has this act injured what you believe? If you and many of the writers on this website were truly interested or "concerned" about what's going on in another vineyard of the Lord, shouldn't you take your "concerns/questions" directly to the source?
Did you die for another's sins? Do you hold the salvation of each man at your fingertip?
Let me stand on the Word of God. That's my position. When you stand on God's Word....now can we get you to go and make disciples...

 
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Reasoner
(no login)
205.188.116.72

RE: Your Answer

September 17 2005, 10:18 PM 

Evon,

You stated that the truth is in reference to the word of God and it is not your opinion. Evon, God's word is truth. (John 17:17)
Again, I ask of you to give me book, chapter, and verse for what you call the truth concerning "some people, some christians, and some churches." If you cannot prove what you say from God's Word, then what you are speaking is your truth and your own opinion. God's word speaks for itself.

You said that you don't think you commented directly on what was witnessed at Central Pointe. Maybe you didn't know that the subject matter of this particular thread is Central Pointe Church of Christ Duncanville Texas. All of the responding post dealt with the same subject matter. Did you access the page entitled Central Pointe Church of Christ by mistake? Did you respond to the post talking about Central Pointe Church of Christ by mistake? Why didn't you start a new thread and share your personal views and your personal truths about whatever was on your mind since you say you were not commenting on Central Pointe?

You asked if anyone who knew the reason why Brother Dulin, the minister at Central Pointe, was rebaptised to write and tell YOU the reason for HIS actions. Do you not know that you should go to him directly concerning this matter since you are so greatly troubled by his actions. (Matthew 18:15, Luke 17:3-4, Galatians 6:1, James 5:19-20) How can one who is not directly commenting on Central Poine be so concerned about what the minister does?

 
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Evon
(no login)
192.112.2.60

Re: RE: Your Answer

September 29 2005, 9:42 AM 

I know where I posted my opinions, under CPCC forum.

Since I haven't attended CP and witnessed for myself what others have, I am not in a position to comment directly on what happened. After reading the messages posted to this page, I chose to give my opinion.

I know directly the circumstances of Central Pointe's origination and chose not to involve the details in this discussion. Instead I replied with what I thought is wrong in the Church of Christ in general. I didn't attack Central Pointe but questioned how far is too far in NON-TRADITIONAL worship. Which may or may not be happening at this location. Central Pointe may not be the only congregation having Non-Traditional worship however, it's the only forum that I saw.

Again, I am not attacking any church specifically. I can only say that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......IT'S A DUCK! So that this comment isn't taken out of context, TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, GOD'S WORD ISN'T CONFUSING, READ YOUR BIBLE, KNOW WHAT SIGNS TO LOOK FOR TO LET YOU KNOW YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE. AND IF YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE, LEAVE! If you are comfortable addressing the minister or congregation with your reasons, do so. If not, dont.

Sorry, for not providing you with scripture. I am not interested in a battle of the scriptures, that isn't my objective. I am encouraging Christians to read, think and react to what you have read. I think it is more important to address our weakness rather than attack each other.

If I have made a direct comment to CPCC, then let me correct myself. That isn't my intention. I would hate to think the only comments welcome on this site are those that belittle and attack the subject and those who are responding.

P.S. I still think all of this is based on traditional worship versus non-traditional and how far is too far from the doctrine.

Much Love to All!!!!!!!!
Evon

 
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CPCC Member
(no login)
64.12.117.6

State the Facts

September 9 2005, 8:56 AM 

I attend the Central Pointe Church of Christ and have since it's inception. Yes, we do have women ushers, yes, we do praise the Lord as we are commanded to do, however, I have never seen women taking up the collection. If you are going to state something with the implication that it is factual, you should make sure that what you're stating is true. In your study of scripture, do you not clearly read where lying is contrary to the word of God and where liers will go?

It is so unfortunate that we can't take the scripture and look at it as it was written and not try to impose our traditions and personal beliefs on to others to make them binding.

Instead of you saying that you don't think prayer will help our congregation, you need to turn those thoughts to yourself and pray for your understanding and discernment of scripture.

We will pray for you.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.19

Let's pretend?

September 9 2005, 6:19 PM 

Let's pretend that I am Biblically illiterate--a common assumption.

Now, you want me to attend your church and I have never heard that the Lord wants me to engage in a PRAISE RITUAL. You also want me to pay for the experience.

How would you convince me that you are speaking of the assembly of Christ?

 
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Stop it!
(no login)
70.128.184.68

Let's pretend

September 10 2005, 11:58 AM 

Ken,
From the aforementioned writings it's obvious that you are either a bible professor or one who is learned in biblical history, and probably the reason this website exists. Whatever the case may be Ken, speaking the truth in love is not your strong point. You words are vile and demeaning. The Christ I serve was direct, but never intending to denigrate anyone's character, but to bring them into the knowledge of what He wanted his followers to know about his mission and to share that with entire world (great commission). So what are the personal attacks about? Obviously you posses a demon. I would be afraid to ask you to share Jesus with anyone. I think you would give them one of your good old "tongue lashings" about what they believe and would never convince them that you love the Lord. Try some kindness when you speak, some people aren't as mature in the Lord, as maybe you are. Remember, there are others who are seeking truth, not dogma, not nasty words and inuendos and trying to belittle the reader or seeker.
I went to the Central Pointe' church on Sunday. I'm from Atlanta. I've never seen such a wonderful body of believers. My friend shared this website with me and I asked them would it be alright if I responded. The great commission said to go into all the world and guess what they are doing it like the book says. They even had 17 baptisms. Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing? It seems so stupid to me to be fighting about "ushers" and "praise leaders" and other things that bring unity to the body. But this website doesn't. We don't have any churches of Christ in Atlanta getting out there doing the will of God in this venue. Hungup on hangups, we're sill fighting about marriage and divorce and I'm 56 now. How long will we stumble over that?
And they (Central Pointe') fed about 150 persons after worship (some Hurricane survivors)and they are teaching the word my brother.
So let's STOP IT! Get on with saving souls as directed by scripture. And that incredible remark about the women keeping silent. Which church do you know operates without women? NONE that's right Ken you have the magic number.
I heard they started with 30 Ken. How many souls have you led to Christ and who do you preach for right now?

Stay faithful to Christ every reader and continue to do what's right Central Pointe' no matter which DEVIL comes at you cause I see they are everywhere. Seeking whom they may devour. Right Ken?

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.86

Stop it! Sounds like a CULT to me!

September 10 2005, 10:00 PM 

Let's pretend?

Let's pretend that I am Biblically illiterate--a common assumption.

Now, you want me to attend your church and I have never heard that the Lord wants me to engage in a PRAISE RITUAL. You also want to chase out the OWNERS so you can turn the SCHOOL OF CHRIST into a THEATER FOR "HOLY" ENTERTAINMENT. You don't know that the superstitious PRAISE word of David means to MAKE YOURSELF VILE. The prophets of Jezebel and of Asherah did PRAISE SERVICES.

How would you convince me that you are speaking of the assembly of Christ?

Jews, Muslims and atheists took care of people. People who don't use SUPERSTITIOUS PRAISE singing feed the poor. The church is a school of the Bible to feed the POOR IN SPIRIT because the enemy is not physical hunger: all of the failures in the Bible resulted from spiritual ignorance. The kingdom of Christ does not consist of FOOD AND DRINK: that is what you DID NOT DO during Wuurshup-uh time, right?

If you don't have the LORD AND HIS WORD with you then attack the person. You justification for deliberately sowing discord want hold water.

All kinds of ritualizing or musicating is CEREMONIAL LEGALISM: it didn't feed a single person.

 
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Stop It!
(no login)
70.128.184.68

When Will You Answer?

September 12 2005, 9:18 PM 

Well Ken you keep venting your beliefs and not found trying to answer simple questions with a biblical answer. Not your interpretation of scripture. You're sounding more and more like Satan with each quip.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.5

Will you QUESTION?

September 13 2005, 9:51 AM 

ALL of the deliberate sowing of discord in the last decade in churches of Christ has been by professional musicians or "musicating" type preachers who are so DOGMATICALLY CERTAIN that God wants a PRAISE SERVICE or RITUAL that it is worth driving weeping widows out into the cold and DISCORDING most of the people who will not be DRIVEN OUT of their own homes.

I simply want someone to tell me where we got the idea that the ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible should be to RITUALIZE by singing PRAISE songs which are not the Bible and using a form which is not Biblical and for the purpose which is the most ancient, legalistic, patternist superstition known to ancient cave dwellers and hunters and gatherers.

Do you have any reasons which you feel are worth deliberately sowing discord? Who convinced you that this was NOT a sign of the end times and WHAT is their reasons? Surely, everyone must have a good reason before breaking the kneecaps of widows with a baseball bat. I want YOU to try to understand why you beleive what you believe and WHO convinced you.

 
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Care Taker
(no login)
70.247.103.226

Answer the questions brother

September 13 2005, 6:36 PM 

Stop beating a dead horse with your rhetoric. Give me scripture. Stop It asked you and now I want to know the same thing. You've stated what you believe, now give me scripture. Not what you've read in someone's book or by some man-made dogma. Scripture! Do you believe scripture? Oh maybe you're righting other churches who you've deemed are wrong on this website. Well when you have time please answer.
And that crack about being a "cult". Maybe you need to take another look at who's sounding cultish Ken.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.5

Re: Answer the questions brother

September 13 2005, 9:35 PM 

I had hoped that before afflicting people with the Praise Craze which is one of the oldest, most legalistic, patternists, superstitious rituals known to mankind which probably MOST of the congregation FEELS as a sick feeling in the stomach, someone would have checked into the meaning of Praise as a RITUAL. All history knows that the lostness of tribalism saw the need to DO praise rituals to appease, seduce or even threaten the "gods" that if they didn't produce more (members) they would take their worship elsewhere. Most tribalists believed that without their PRAISE the gods would give up and fail.

First, you should grasp that Jesus did not promise to build a worship center or praise center but an ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible. This was left virtually unchanged from the synagogue which He endorsed. The First days of festivals and always the seventh days were not called days of worship but of REST. They were to hold a HOLY CONVOCATION which means to READ or REHEARSE the Word of God from copies or memory.

Praise in a spiritual sense means to TELL THE STORY OF GOD and Paul commanded that we use the words of God.

The PRAISE of David meant to "make self vile" with singing, playing instruments, dancing and stripping off your clothes. This PRAISE word is the source of the word LUCIFER who is ZOE. ALL of the instrumental Psalms are WARRIOR'S CHANT and God authorized the trumpets to send signals or terrorize the enemy. ALL music works because it creates the same ENDORPHINS as being terrorized by a saber toothed tiger would produce. The impulses are FIGHT, FLIGHT or SEXUALITY. All of these drug-highs are well known to damage the body just as a runner damages their body before they get the RUNNER'S HIGH.

After the nation of Israel had fallen from grace because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, ALL of the evidence including Stephen who enraged the clergy was that the music was a prayer and God TURNED THEM OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST. That is the ONLY authority you have for ANY music concept which always marked paganism.

God defined the ASSEMBLY which is a word for the synagogue and was what Stephen called "the church in the wilderness." When they assembled it was only for instructions and the church did not change anything but add the Lord's Supper. It did not add singing, preaching or giving money. Numbers 10:7 OUTLAWS the triumph or alarm which means "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord." Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to PANIC Jesus using the Clergy Warrior musicians to come for Jesus. I'm sorry if you have been too busy doing singy-clappy to notice that and no preacher is prepared to teach you.

The word PLEASURE was a sexual impulse to LIFT PEOPLE UP in mental anxiety which Jesus died to remove. The method was an exciting form of SINGING which was known as SORCERY. The purpose was HERESY which was to carry you away for the DEMAGOGUE'S own uses. Jesus EXAMPLED never being caught in a pagan arousal ritual and Paul directly commanded that we NOT do it. Otherwise, the diversity in Romans 14 could not be healed. It seems that someone is taking a united church and turning it BACKWARD to Romans 14.

Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. (education) Rom 15: 2
    For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Rom 15: 3
Pleasuring is produced in the Greek texts by Demagogues who LIFT YOU UP with PRAISE SINGING in order to CARRY YOU AWAY for his own USES which means HERESY.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Rom 15: 4

You remember that Paul never commanded SINGING but SPEAKING one to another to TEACH and ADMONISH one another. All of the resources Paul defined are inspired by the Spirit of Christ.

Teaching is not SANGING but speaking to one another with Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs which are ALL the inspired text. The word SING is ODE and means to speak and it further defines PSALMOS as in "Hebrew Cantillation." That is why Paul said SPEAK to one another and not SING to one another..
    Didaskalia (g1319) did-as-kal-ee'-ah; from 1320; instruction (the function or the information): - doctrine, learning, teaching.

    The direct command to Timothy was:

    Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 1 Tim 4:13

    Attendance is a "worship" word meaning to hold the mind to.
Disciples are MADE by baptizing and teaching what Jesus taught and revealed through the apostles. Every school boy who aspired to be a DISCIPLE of a master tentmaker could comprehend that.

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Rom 15: 5

Jesus did not try to AROUSE spiritual excitement. If He had done so He COULD NOT be a Teacher of SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE.

That ye may with one MIND and one MOUTH glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15: 6

PRAISE means to tell the story of God and only God knows how. Paul defined the way to GLORIFY God which is by speaking HIS Words. If we "sang" Twila Paris then we WORSHIP Twila Paris.

That defines the ekklesia or synagogue which solves the diversity problem in Romans 14, BOTH of which had a music for PLEASURING practice.

Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Rom 15:7

SINGING as an act as opposed to teaching was introduced in the year 373 and unity has been destroyed every time people want to MUSICATE.

The NEW STYLE PRAISE SINGING from the OLD STYLE Towers of Babylon INTENDS to sow discord to drive the old people out into the cold so they can attract body worshipers: Pleasuring is still called heresy. I sense some GLORIFYING in being able to sow discord?

 
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James
(no login)
69.205.134.202

Reginald Dulin and Central Pointe Church of Christ

September 19 2005, 8:20 AM 

I seldom read this site anymore. Honestly I can't stomach the antagonism, the harrassment, and the generally demeaning and judgemental nature displayed by the main contributors. However, I happend to be on today and noticed this thread regarding Central Pointe and Reginald Dulin and felt compelled to write.

Though Brother Dulin needs absolutely no defense, since his work speaks for itself, I must say that having known of him and his family, who are staunch members of the church of Christ in Winston-Salem, NC, where I lived for 11 years, I can say without a doubt that most of the accusations presented here, if any, are completely exaggerated. Listen to the member from CPCC who wrote in. She corrected some misinformation that had been given earlier.

Better than that, call Brother Dulin. He'll be most happy to talk with anyone. And as to his rebaptism and reasons for it, quite plainly IT IS NONE OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS! LET IT GO!

People, read your bibles. Don't give a whole lot of credence to this sight. And, certainly don't let it replace the time you would normally spend with family or your personal time with the Lord.

 
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q
(no login)
71.8.120.155

speak of what you know not heard

September 25 2006, 11:50 AM 

I have visited central point on several occasions i have never seen any women or so called angles seving in collection or any other capacity other than ushering and welcoming guest at the doors plus if you can sho me were it is written that a lady can not welcome people into the house of god I will kindly keep quiet.We are ther to worship god.

 
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Sherrylyn Steward
(no login)
71.249.130.32

Church of Christ Worship Service

March 14 2008, 2:23 PM 

I have attended Church of Christ worship services where women served communion, passed the collection plate and read announcements. Who allowed them to do it? The open minded church leaders allowed it. These women are not being disobedient.

Anyway, what does that have to with you worshipping GOD? A new day is coming in the Church of Christ all over the world. Once all these old pioneer ministers die off watch things really change FOR THE BETTER. AMEN!!!!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.150.119.123

Once all these old pioneer ministers die off

March 14 2008, 9:12 PM 

You're wishing for these old pioneer ministers to die soon?

There are only a few -- very few -- churches of Christ that allow women to serve the Communion, such as Richland Hills and Woodmont Hills.

If what you're wishing for the time ["a new day"] to come when "deaconesses" or women are in leadership role, you may have a very long waiting period. No, not in your lifetime.

So, are you a member of Central Pointe?

 
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An Observer
(no login)
68.94.15.69

Women Serving Communion at RH?

March 18 2008, 4:57 PM 

Sorry Donnie, but I've attended RH many times, as recently as this past weekend, and have never witnessed women serving communion there...other than to pass the tray to the person seated next to them on the pew. Unless that counts as "serving communion", which I guess it could in some twisted way, your statement is simply false. Have you visited there and witnessed it, or only "heard" about it?

There is only ONE congregation I've ever been to (I visit a few around the country, with work and other travels) that I've witnessed women serving communion, and they were doing it in conjunction with and under the leadership of their husbands.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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