I visited the Central Pointe "church of Christ" this past weekend for their building dedication, and I saw some things that I thought were contrary to how God says we ought to worship him. Some of the things I noticed were:

1.) Women (whom the preacher refers to as his "Angels") ushering, and serving on the collection.

2.) Praise Teams ("Praise Leaders")

3.) The preacher was said to have been "re-baptized", once they got their new church building.

I know this is not right in the Church of Christ. Has anyone else observed these things???

Central Pointe is on its way to being a denominational church. I guess the bigger the better is there philosophy. Whatever happen to saving souls? "Pastor" Dulin must have been re-baptized because we don't have pastors in the church of christ. I feel sorry for this church. They need much prayer. But, I din't know if that will even help.

Marie,

I drove seven hours just to attend the weekend of Praise and Thanksgiving at Central Pointe on July 2 and 3. I along with my singing group attended both services as did many people who traveled to Texas that weekend. Brother Dulin told all in attendance at the second worship service why he got rebaptized and gave scripture for his actions. Why does that bother you? Do you know that a couple of Apostles in the new testament also were rebaptized? Does that portion of the Bible offend you?

Before Central Pointe moved into their new building the fire marshall visted them on numerous occasions for being in violation. There were too many people in the building at one time. Even when they moved to having two morning services still, they were visited by the fire marshall because of over crowding. They went to a larger building. Why does that bother you?

You wrote "What about saving souls"? The mere fact that they outgrew their old building is an indication that they are bringing souls to Christ. God's word is being preached and the fruit bearing is evident. God is adding the increase and that seems to trouble you.
Why does Central Pointes' growth bother you?

As many others do, the congregation at central Pointe believes in praising God. Why do you feel sorry for them? God recieving the glory is something to shout about and rejoice over but you are troubled. Why??

You said that "they" need prayer but you doubt that prayer would help them. I am sorry that your prayer life is so fluid. I will pray for you.

The Bible specifically states that there is only one baptism now! ( Eph 4 )
Before there was the baptism of John, then the baptism of the Holy Ghost and with fire and water baptism. This baptism is the only one that remains according to scripture! Dulin has implemented false doctrine when this is done. This is critical in vitality of the holy scriptures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is Sin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Water baptism is for remission of one's sin.

They believe in praising God they way they want!
It's not about pleaseing you are us it's about pleaseing God you Idiot!
This is not a Burger King Church!

You're just and OLD BITTY!!! find me some scriptures about what was wrong with his services and them u can talk. As always GOD BLESS.

Each congregation of the "Church of Christ" is autonomous and under the spiritual direction of its'local Elders. It is not the Biblical responsibility of outsiders to judge whether this body of believers or any other is a "True and correct" Church of Christ. Churches of Christ will have variations in worship styles and program focus because of this independence. If you want that kind of oversight and control, you need to go join with a protestant group that has a central control governing body like the Methodists. Praise God for local control in Churches of Christ!

Thank you David for your wonderful response. What cowards Tee and Marie are. Why would you go to a website for the world to see how some people in the churches of Christ treat each other? Central Pointe' and any other congregation has a right to be who they are. Just like your church or temple, your leaders, whether they pastors, preacher or pope, outlines how your church will be organized and operated. We all have a choices in life. We choose to marry or be single. We choose churches because something there has drawing power. The Word changes the lives of men and women and if we will win the world we must preach Jesus Christ. When we teach Jesus Christ we bring the believer to the church. Dogma and criticism has diminished your listening audience. Jesus didn't walk in comdeming men and women to hell.
Maybe you didn't understand what "Angels" do in the Central Pointe church. I'm sure there are events that happen in your church that others are not pleased with. But to run to a website and air your displeasure with another church's worship service is unthinkable. Since you didn't say how they conducted their worship (you mentioned Praise Team and women passing collection basket). Women pass the collection basket every Sunday at my church and the communion trays too. See since I can't reach down to the end of the pew to get the trays from the one who passes them I have to get it "passed to me by women sitting next to me". So maybe that's what you mean. Some things are just plain unthoughtful. Since you seem to be a bible believer, did it ever occur to you to take your acquisations or your "dismay" with their concept of worship that offended you to the leaders of that congregation? If you didn't you've commited sin against your brothers? And those with whom you have an "aught" with, now have an "aught" with you. Don't let the devil sift you like wheat Tee & Marie. And Marie I hope no one ever stops praying for you. And if you really don't believe that God can change a situation through prayer, get out of religion. You are not an agent of God. You deny the power of God, that's a move of the anti-Christ.
People are dying everyday. Let's stop fighting each other and GET TO WORK FOR THE LORD!

David, you say it is "not the Biblical respon. of outsiders to judge this body of believers."
If that's the case then you probably need to get ready to edit out most of Paul's (the traveling missionary) epistles since he does that very thing! Have you read Romans or I Corinthians lately?! I'd call the apostle Paul a pretty good reference point for such behavior.

j.j............I am very aware of what the Apostle Paul did on his journeys and his work with churches. I am not sure you or anyone else alive today have his wisdom and divine direction. We have the scriptures to direct us today. We are talking about the Elders selected by a congregation of believers in Jesus Christ directing and leading an autonomous body according to the Bible. There are going to be areas of opinion (vs. Biblical absolutes) amoung Elders and the group of believers whom they are responsible. It is not your job or anyone else outside that body to pass judgement if they meet your "tests of Faith" other than those clearly taught in the Bible. Again I praise God for the independence of the Churches of Christ body of believers. We are not bound by the traditions and "higher ups" like most protestant bodies. If you don't "get it" then I am sorry for you and encourage further study of the Bible to understand this or again get in a Christian body that can dictate from a central council.

You spoke of elders, well they don't have any elders at the congregation, just deacons. (Per their website) So, who's setting the course?

David,

You were certainly right when you stated that each local congregation is autonomous of one another in the Church of Christ. I know that I couldn't go to another congregation and tell the leadership where their congregation's bank account should be set up, or how to set up their ministries (as long as they fall in line with God's word). BUT, when it comes to the way in which we are supposed to worship God, there is only ONE way! Let's not confuse autonomy, with "WORSHIP ANY WAY YOU FEEL IS RIGHT". To tell you the truth, God is not really concerned with OUR feelings. In His word (the Bible), God states the way in which HE wants us to worship HIM. There were no women serving on the collection table in the New Testament Church. The were no women ushering in the New Testament Church. There were no praise teams in the New Testament Church. So, why do we feel the need to change the way God wants us to worhsip HIM??? So, I do feel that I can say something when I visit another congragation in the Church of Christ, and their method of worship does not fall in line with the way in which God has stated that He should be worshipped. As humans, alot of our actions are based upon what we "feel" at the time. And I'm sorry to say, but when we stand before God on Judgement Day, He's not gonna ask us anything about how we "feel." He's going to judge us according to HIS WORD, and whether or not we've lived accordingly.

In Christian Love,
Tee

Tee,
Use what ever "christian principles" you are supposed to possess and stop putting this garbage on this website. I am baptist, yet I know what your religion teaches. I am a bible believer (not like the churches of Christ who stumble over everything and don't recognized truth when you see it) and we don't all agree over every issue, but we beleive in our church what the bible says in Matthew 18 and if you are sill confused about your religious duty then turn to Galatians 6:1 (are you spiritual Tee?) You seem to be big on "traditions" because you've not stated one scripture to back up what you believe. Stop being an agent of the devil and get the truth out to those who need Jesus. Stop hiding behind the website and get to work. Our church is growing because we are not condeming people to hell, but are trying to find out what in "hell" do they want? My buddies who've read this rhetoric are just laughing their heads off at the hypocracy of you and your religious belief. If I was a member of the church of Christ I would be so ashamed. Stick with the bible not with your traditions. Oh by the way, I used to be coc, but people like you made me leave.

I have avoided this site for somtime now once I saw Ken Sublett joined the discussion. He sows discord and confusion whenever he gets on one page. But I need to respond to Tee in that the Lord is going to "judge" us but through the HIS grace. He died for this and I praise Him daily that my sinful behavior will not be the only issue He looks at me. No earthly church will ever get it "all" right in every way. If that is your goal in life to find that church or specific congregation, you need to study the Word more carefully. The gathering of God's people in the next life will be when that perfect situation comes into existance. We will be judged in this life on who we say Jesus Christ is and did we serve others as He asked in scripture. Again, I praise God that I am in the Churches of Christ body and can experience the freedom each congregation has. We have no governing body other than our local Elders. I still say if you want that kind of regimated oversight, then go to the Methodist, Disciples of Christ, etc. Protestant bodies. I don't want some manmade authority from Nashville or Abilene telling my congregation what it can and can't do. The authority of the Bible is all we need. That is the real beauty of the Restoration Movement that we have so strayed from.

I AM MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IN DALLAS AND FIND SOME OF THESE COMMENTS "HUMOROUS". THE TRUTH IS THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO CHURCHES BECAUSE THEY ARE LOOKING TO BE ENTERTAINED OR FOR BRAGGING RIGHTS. THERE IS A TRUE WAY TO WORSHIP, THERE IS A TRUTH TO THE SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN BE BLINDED BY HIS/HER OWN AMBITIONS AND FORGET ABOUT GOD'S PURPOSE, WHICH IS TO PREACH AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST WITHOUT ADDING OR TAKING AWAY FROM THE BIBLE. IS THIS A CONGREGATION THAT HAS DETOURED FROM TRADITIONAL WORSHIP? WE AS MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST CAN LEARN MANY THINGS FROM OTHER DENOMINATIONS, SPECIFICALLY BEING MORE ACTIVE AND PRESENT IN OUR COMMUNITIES, NOT TO MENTION OUR OFFERINGS. HOWEVER, WE HAVE CANNOT ALLOW THE PRESENCE OF "SUPER CHURCHES" TO INFLUENCE OUR WAYS OF WORSHIP AND CAUSE US TO WORSHIP IN A WAY THAT IS NOT PLEASING AND RESPECTFUL TO GOD. WE SHOULD CONDUCT OURSELVES IN WORSHIP IN THE SAME MANNER WE WOULD CONDUCT OURSELVES INFRONT OF OUR PARENTS OR PEOPLE WE HOLD IN HIGH REGARDS. THAT IS WITH MUCH RESPECT!!!
A GREAT MISCONCEPTION FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IS THAT WE JUDGE OTHERS. THIS IS FAR FROM THE TRUTH. GOD IS VERY CLEAR WITH HIS LIKES AND DISLIKES. SO HOW IS IT JUDGING IF WE ARE BRINGING YOUR ATTENTION TO SOMETHING THE LORD HAS CLEARLY STATED HE IS DISPLEASED. FOR EXAMPLE, HOMOSEXUALITY. GOD WAS VERY CLEAR ON THIS ISSUE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, BUT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY HOMOSEXUALITY, MAN HAS DECIDED TO MAKE THIS A CONFUSING TOPIC. REMEMBER, DURING THIS TIME-TERMINOLOGY WAS DIFFER FROM NOW.
WHAT IS MY POINT? GOD IS VERY CLEAR WITH HIS LAWS AND EXPECTATIONS. OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF. A CHURCH WAS ESTABLISED WHEN JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS. WE SHOULD BE WORSHIPPING AND CONDUCTING SERVICE AND OUR LIVES ACCORDING TO THE NEW TESTAMENT.
AND TO MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH, STOP ALLOWING PREACHERS TO BECOME GREATER THAN THE MEMBERS OF THE CONGREGATION. THE GOSPEL HAS BECOME A MEANS OF MONEY RATHER THAN A MEANS OF MINISTERING.
SIGNED,
Evon

Evon and Tee,

Would you please give me scripture for having a song leader? Would you also show me where the Bible says that the singing in the worship hour must be lead by one man?

Would you please give me scripture for who should pass the basket, or communion trays? Will I be condemned if my congregation has communion before the sermon and your congregation has it after the sermon?

Would you please give me scripture for having Ushers in the church and also that Ushers must be men?

I understand your opinion and I even understand your need to call your opinion THE TRUTH, but can we let the Bible have the last word on these issues? Can you use the Bible to answer my questions?

Reasoner: Would you please give me scripture for having a song leader? Would you also show me where the Bible says that the singing in the worship hour must be lead by one man?

Well, it stands to reason that the LOGIC of MANY LEADERS REPLACING ONE LEADER doesn't fit. If the practices have been to use ONE song leader and you decide to add a CHOIR then you intend to deliberately sow discord for the "idolatry of talent." You intend to DEMOTE men who also have talent but perhaps not the right "gender sound" so that you UTTERLY DESTROY the body life. The OWNERS are the slaves and the "ministers" become the masters. Once this begins the goal is to silence Bible preaching and the PREACHER might have to wear a tutu.

All of this is FUELED by the false teaching that churches of Christ just follow our TRADITIONALISM. You should know that A Capella was named "after the pipe organ" to fit the Sistine Chapel where it was not permitted to use instruments in the face of the Pope where OFFICIAL MASS was held. A capella means the Popes CASTRATED French 'Musical worship team' he brought from France.

All known literature marks religious musicians as perverse and perverting. I am not accusing but much of the congregation sees the MARK and that is why up to half flee leaving their "invest-uh-ments with Guuudddeee-uh in the HANDS of them what stole the church house of widows. There is no musical term or name of instrument in the Bible which is not a POINTER to innocent FEMALE children, Satan, people slaughtering types of Jesus Christ always OUTSIDE of the type of the church of Christ, warriors (David), prostitutes or Sodomites. No exception.

The fact is that ONE LEADER was called "the first heresy largely pervading the church." The APPROVED EXAMPLE of Jesus was that they simply repeated or cantillated a BIBLICAL psalm. If you obey the command of Jesus everyone will KNOW the Biblical text and you will not need a hand waver. Most gender-secure song leaders think of themselves as song STARTERS and not the performers.

The DIRECT COMMAND of Paul was that we not PLEASURE which word directly relates to arousal singing which was always perverted and perverting. THEN we can speak using ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH and glorify God by speaking THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. EVERYONE knows that a non-charismatic (non perverted or non-theatrical) song leader is NOT going to induce charismatic ecstasy. EVERYONE Knows that the close harmony of a TRAINED choir deliberately induces ECSTASY which is called MADNESS. People intend to PLEASURE the paying audience and that violated the DIRECT COMMAND of Paul who defined the SYNAGOGUE in Romans 15 as a way to prevent the DISCORD when everyone follows their PREFERENCES.

Therefore, based on the INTENT of the TEAM and the RESULT of the team singing, you violate a DIRECT COMMAND of Paul in at least four ways:

1. You INTEND to pleasure the people to lift them up or AROUSE them where SINGING was the best way to induce ecstasy. The word is related to HERESY. Paul said that Jesus would not do it: therefore, it is anti-Christian. Those who used the performing arts to arouse were doing heresy and they were called DEMAGOGUES. Bad foundation to build deliberate discord so you can be seen and admired.

2. You INTEND to ignore the approved example of Jesus in "hymning" or "grieving out" a Psalm, the direct commands of Paul to use ONE MIND and ONE VOICE and use THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN.

3. You INTEND to glorify the "idolatry of talent" and use that which the singy-clappy guys have composed to TRUMP the songs of Christ the Spirit.

4. You INTEND to deliberately sow discord because the SYNAGOGUE Jesus built and Paul defined would CREATE UNITY which is the meaning of UNISON SINGING.

The fact is that Paul defines singing which is the ODE which is the synagogue form of SPEAKING. The word ODE further defines PSALMOS as "in the form of cantillation." That was not truly music. How do I know? Because we know that "melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century." The end-time singers or MUSES are the LOCUSTS John warned us about: they have scorpion stingers in their tails and the PLEASURING is really PUNISHING THE SPIRIT.

The PURPOSE was to teach ONE ANOTHER the inspired Bible text: no one saw SINGING or the use of anything but the BIBLICAL TEXT which Paul commanded for over 350 years.

The more PERFORMERS of Twila Paris you have, the FURTHER REMOVED you are into violating the approved example and direct command of Paul and the UNIVERSALLY UNDERSTOOD view of the early church.

At least the traditional, 2,000 year old practice outside of the Catholic Presenter does not DELIBERATELY SOW DISCORD. To use "THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST IT" is by definition LEGALISTIC and for the purpose of SOWING DISCORD which IS defined as a terminal sin.

Reasoner: Would you please give me scripture for who should pass the basket, or communion trays? Will I be condemned if my congregation has communion before the sermon and your congregation has it after the sermon?

They didn't PASS the basket, remember. Paul said that giving was free will and NOT a law. If they treacherous elders did not use THE LAW OF TITHING or THE LAW OF GIVING they could not USE women because they would LOOSE their enablers. That means that YOU cannot have the widow's food money or the children's health care money to PAY you to perform and lie that it is WORSHIP. That is the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE (or Zoe) which is called TRAFFICKING.

Paul COMMANDED that the women be silent, do not speak, do not teach. That also includes being SEDENTARY. To the literate that is a LAW AGAINST women passing the baskets or acting as ATTENDANTS or BUSTLING about.

The AUTHORITY word Paul used is AUTHENTIA. That means both erotic and murderous. If you USE women in a PERFORMANCE or non-sedentary role you KNOW BEFORE hand that you will SOW DISCORD and go against most of church history. You know that to EXPOSE your wives and daughters is to INVITE men to GIVE HEED to their beauty or ugliness or body parts so that YOU KNOW that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to give heed to Jesus Christ. The idea of being COVERED in the church would demand that a MALE husband or father would shield them from the staring eyes. Common LUSTING especially male-maie, female-male and male-female seems NORMAL but it is perverted.

Having non-sedentary, preside over women DOES violate a direct command of PAUL and a universal LAW OF LUST known by anyone with a IQ as long as their shoe lace.

Reasoner: Would you please give me scripture for having Ushers in the church and also that Ushers must be men?

See above: a DIRECT COMMAND that the women be sedentary and silent. If ushers DELIBERATELY SOWED DISCORD then maybe we should attract "attendees" bright enough to seat themselves. You CANNOT DO synagogue of Christ where He teaches the "twos and threes" if you NEED an usher.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 1 Tim 2:11

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1Ti.2:12

Esuchia (g2271) hay-soo-khee'-ah; fem. of 2272; (as noun) STILLNESS, i.e. desistance from BUSTLE or language: - quietness, silence.

Bustle is: poipnuo, bustle about, of ATTENDANTS, make haste and sweep the house, labouring for the sake of me

Esuchios (g2272) hay-soo'-khee-os; a prol. form of a comp. prob. of a der. of the base of 1476 and perh. 2192; prop. keeping one's SEAT (sedentary), i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing): - peaceable, quiet.

Hedraios (g1476) hed-rah'-yos; from a der. of hezomai , (to sit); sedentary, i.e. (by impl.) immovable: - settled, stedfast


Yes, wimpy burger, she can breath and sing but NOT clap because that means to VOMIT.


3. with Verbs, hêsuchian agein to keep quiet, be at rest, keep silent, Hdt., attic:--so hêsuchian echein Hdt., attic

Euripides, Alcestis uses it: What means this stillness before the palace? Why is the house of Admetus wrapped in silence?

Sigaô, keep silence, used by Hom. only in imper. siga, hush! BE STILL!

If women are highly VISIBLE they are violating the direct commandments of Paul, the common sense of all of church history and the minimal consideration for the USED women and for the males who WILL BY DEFINITION be attracted to the females and NOT to be grieving with Jesus. And don't try to fool us: they speak about USING women because they KNOW that they will suck in the cash.

The concept of a PRAISE RITUAL with music is one of the most ancient, tribalistic, superstitious, ignorant and legalistic acts known to human history. The prophesier or musical agent was the OLDEST profession because it combined doing musical and literal sexuality with the gods whose agents were very often other males. The PERSONA has never changed.

Those who USE women are using the old Changeling-Hireling GRADUALISM called "navigating the winds of change." Once the people get adjusted or the OWNERS run for their lives the MISLEADERS have every intention of PROMOTING women to be deaconesses, elders and "ministry leaders" after the vocational deacons are fired. It's all prophesied.

The people BELIEVE that they can lead the "worshipers" into the presence of the gods, appease, threaten, feed and most often perform sexuality with the "gods" through the god's agents. Singers were ALWAYS known as the "harem of the gods." The word PSALLO from which the Ph.Duhs get their authority is UNIVERSALLY pointing in the literature to disturbed males trying to groom young boys who were the "ministers or priests of the Goddess" such as Zoe.

I rejoice that I am no longer in bondage. That I have a new and better convenant with Christ Jesus. Also that I do have some freedom in Christ. The very same topics that have taken place on this web-site are the very reasons we have lost focus on bringing souls to Christ. We spend more time and effort on un-scriptual, unsupporting legalistic hold- backs such as song leaders and clapping and if a female can walk someone to their seat or not. If the Preacher can be called Minister, Preacher or Paster. Sounds like we are still on milk instead of meat. Still going over these issues when we should be past this and teaching others. This is a sad commentary for the Body of Christ. I can not beleive that you had the nerve to try and USE scriptures, which were all taken out of context, to try and support that foolish teaching. While your defining and breaking down words, look up the word praise, rejoice and gladdness of heart. From your studies have you really came up with the conclusion that God wants your worship with no emotion at all? We know that we will be judge according to the word of God, notby emotion that is a given. Where in the world did you get, that good singing will make such negative condemnation to the soul. In your worship are you constanly watching to make sure no one makes a wronge move? Don't you know you have been made free from such a worship.

To my sisters that came so far to visit the Central Point Church of Christ, did you share these concerns with the body there at Centeral Point? Did you say anything to your brother Dulin concerning worship ?
If you felt they were in error did you try to help anyone ? Of course you didn't. Its been said, silence is consent. Or did you run back to your home congregations telling what you saw. Then proceed to type your opinions onto this web-site. Examine yourselfs, I beleive this has placed you in a sinful state.

For the Mark of Zoe brother, If we, the Body of Christ were to follow your methodicial way of teaching, which is not the Lords. The women would be sitting in the back of the buildings during worship completly covered from head to foot. Condemn for saying "Amen" or making any other sounds during worship. Men like this is why the Church Of Christ has now become the smallest growing body, but the largest comdeming, but claiming to be spirtual one. That would try and have us to beleive we have no freedom in Christ Jesus. Still bound by custom and tradition, be ever so careful before you say Central Point Church Of Christ is in error. After using all the big words and trying to define all the text it seems you really have not studied at all. I will continue to pray for you.

I have also visited Central Pointe or as they refer to themselves "The Pointe", and found the worhip service pleasing. Yes, I did notice the Men on stage singing(Praise Team) and had no problems as long as those men were leading the congregational singing and they did. The church Allendisplays all of the words to the songs on screens for those who don't know them. I talked with my Bro Rodney Dulin, he asked me for feedback on the worship service and the only thing I had a concern or a caution with, was to continue to teach from the pulpit the importance of each persons worship to god and the responsibility to join the congregational singing. For those who will say so yes I saw the sisters escorting people to their seats. I searched a looking for the scriptures that addressed ushers in the bible and could not find any, so I definately can't get hung up on that one.

Yes, each congregation will have slightly different styles of worship and the beuaty of it all is if your at a church and don't like or agree with it you're totally free to leave. Like some of you have mentioned if you have an issue with one of our Brothers or Sisters the bible teachs us how to deal with them. If we have not done that then we probably should not be posting negative comments on the worldwide web.

Ken,

After reading your lengthy response, you still failed to answer any of my questions using God's Word.

Reasoner

I agree with you about Ken.

What part of SILENT and SEDENTARY do you not understand?

Dear Reasoner,

The Truth is in reference to the word of God, not my opinion.

There is a battle in the Churches of Christ and it's about Traditionalism. How far can you go towards nontraditional worship and not go against the beliefs of the church? I don't think I commented directly on what was witnessed at Central Pointe.

My comments were very direct in telling us to read the Bible for ourselves and we will find the Truth. Now, after reading the Bible and your congregation isn't worshiping based on what you have read, then you should do what is best for you.

I am more concerned about the laziness in the church and the influence of super churches that is causing the Churches of Christ to no longer keep our beliefs and put the souls of its members in jeopardy. I don't care what is going on in other churches because if it feels wrong to me, I move my membership.

I also commented on members of the church placing the preacher on a pedastal. A preacher should be treated like another member of the congregation. My "opinion" is a preacher shouldn't be paid by the church to do what he is "called" or "chosen" to do. Preaching has become an occupation for some. And the members help create these kinds of preachers. We need to examine that. The love of money is the root to all evil. Because a preacher is of the flesh, he can develop a lust for money and conduct service to attract money---not souls!

Finally! NUMBERS DON'T MEAN NOTHING!!!

Just because a church has alot of members, active members, doesn't mean they are bearing good fruit. Look back in history and examine the churches with large numbers whose leaders were and still are living secret lives. They did alot of things for people, they had large numbers, traveled, led many to Christ and the preacher was doing wrong! What does that say about the messages he was teaching? Was he teaching those people right? What happened to those people?

We are old enough to ready with understanding and respond accordingly. Of course, no one will tell a preacher he is worshiping out of order. I mean let's be realistic.

I am curious to know what reason Bro Dulin gave for being rebaptised? And why did he wait until he got in the new building to do so?
If anyone knows, can you tell me?

Love,
Evon

Undoubtedly there have been times when hired hands--the meaning of HIRELING--did more good than DAMAGE. But, those days have passed. Preachers are actually being trained as Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators to go out and MANIPULATE the change.

When they UP THE ANTE and claim to be dominant it is time to crack some spiritual knee caps and get them an honest job or get them a ticket on the next ass heading north as they did in the early churches after two or three days to deliver what THEY KNEW that others DID NOT KNOW.

So, you should spread the word that THE LAW OF GIVING is a big fat lie and liars will burn in hell. Paul claimed that even the pressure of his presence during collection for the DESTITUTE and not one penney for the INSTITUTE would constitute extortion which he lumps with adultery.

Now, they have CRASHED THE CROSS by insisting on the LAW OF TITHING. That, a dominant pastor person and "praise singing" are MARKS of a Judaized institution. SO JUST SAY NO and you will have the Bible and all known history on your side. Here is my collection of absolute proof: Copy and MASS MAIL

http://www.piney.com/ChMinistry.html

THE HIRED PASTOR.
By T. R. Burnett

I am a hired pastor,
And ride the modern hob,
I preach for stated salary,
And stay upon the job.

I set aside the bishops,
And leave them in the lurch,
What use is there for elders,
When I preach TO THE CHURCH?

The Lord said, "GO ye therefore,"
That was the olden way,
But by my new translation
It simply means TO STAY!

Paul once said to the elders,
(My little soul to shock!)
Down there at old Miletus,
That they should "feed the flock."

But Paul was an old fogy,
Way back in eastern clime,
And did not know the customs
Of this great modern time.

You now must have a preacher,
(Please shout that long and loud!)
In all the towns and cities,
Or you can't draw the crowd.

The Baptists have a pastor,
The smartest in the land,
Digressives have an organ,
And play to beat the band.

If you don't ape the fashions,
You very soon will find
That all the sects and parties
Have left you far behind.

You need not hurt your conscience
With an un-Bible name,
Just call him your EVANGELIST,
I'll PASTOR just the same!

When I was young and greener,
I worked by the old plan,
I knew the word evangelist
Then meant a traveling man.

I went forth with my message,
God's power to save from sin,
I SOUNDED OUT the gospel,
But now I sound it IN!

To keep the church converted,
And free from every fear,
I draw a handsome salary,
One thousand plunks a year!

Farewell, ye old bush arbors,
Ye once had your reward,
Beneath your kindly shelter
I used to "trust the Lord."

But God is now insolvent,
In city, town, and ville,
A church goes his security
For my big gospel bill!

Ho, all LOCATED preachers,
(That sound a bit absurd!)
We'll show those old apostles
How we SOUND IN the word!

Good-by, ye Bible model,
Farewell, ye ancient plea,
Sing loud, ye hired preacher,
"Nearer, my JOB, to thee!"

Your message was filled with your beliefs and that's ok and please do not be offended if I take a position. But I had to ask these questions of you first.
Why would you ask a question about someone (christian)and you haven't asked that question personally? Are you ashamed of what you believe? Are you questioning someone's baptism? Is it for the good of the person who was rebaptized? Was it an answer to a good conscience? Do you follow scripture as you say you do? Has his rededication to God hindered the church from growing? Has this act injured what you believe? If you and many of the writers on this website were truly interested or "concerned" about what's going on in another vineyard of the Lord, shouldn't you take your "concerns/questions" directly to the source?
Did you die for another's sins? Do you hold the salvation of each man at your fingertip?
Let me stand on the Word of God. That's my position. When you stand on God's Word....now can we get you to go and make disciples...

Evon,

You stated that the truth is in reference to the word of God and it is not your opinion. Evon, God's word is truth. (John 17:17)
Again, I ask of you to give me book, chapter, and verse for what you call the truth concerning "some people, some christians, and some churches." If you cannot prove what you say from God's Word, then what you are speaking is your truth and your own opinion. God's word speaks for itself.

You said that you don't think you commented directly on what was witnessed at Central Pointe. Maybe you didn't know that the subject matter of this particular thread is Central Pointe Church of Christ Duncanville Texas. All of the responding post dealt with the same subject matter. Did you access the page entitled Central Pointe Church of Christ by mistake? Did you respond to the post talking about Central Pointe Church of Christ by mistake? Why didn't you start a new thread and share your personal views and your personal truths about whatever was on your mind since you say you were not commenting on Central Pointe?

You asked if anyone who knew the reason why Brother Dulin, the minister at Central Pointe, was rebaptised to write and tell YOU the reason for HIS actions. Do you not know that you should go to him directly concerning this matter since you are so greatly troubled by his actions. (Matthew 18:15, Luke 17:3-4, Galatians 6:1, James 5:19-20) How can one who is not directly commenting on Central Poine be so concerned about what the minister does?

I know where I posted my opinions, under CPCC forum.

Since I haven't attended CP and witnessed for myself what others have, I am not in a position to comment directly on what happened. After reading the messages posted to this page, I chose to give my opinion.

I know directly the circumstances of Central Pointe's origination and chose not to involve the details in this discussion. Instead I replied with what I thought is wrong in the Church of Christ in general. I didn't attack Central Pointe but questioned how far is too far in NON-TRADITIONAL worship. Which may or may not be happening at this location. Central Pointe may not be the only congregation having Non-Traditional worship however, it's the only forum that I saw.

Again, I am not attacking any church specifically. I can only say that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......IT'S A DUCK! So that this comment isn't taken out of context, TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, GOD'S WORD ISN'T CONFUSING, READ YOUR BIBLE, KNOW WHAT SIGNS TO LOOK FOR TO LET YOU KNOW YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE. AND IF YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE, LEAVE! If you are comfortable addressing the minister or congregation with your reasons, do so. If not, dont.

Sorry, for not providing you with scripture. I am not interested in a battle of the scriptures, that isn't my objective. I am encouraging Christians to read, think and react to what you have read. I think it is more important to address our weakness rather than attack each other.

If I have made a direct comment to CPCC, then let me correct myself. That isn't my intention. I would hate to think the only comments welcome on this site are those that belittle and attack the subject and those who are responding.

P.S. I still think all of this is based on traditional worship versus non-traditional and how far is too far from the doctrine.

Much Love to All!!!!!!!!
Evon

I attend the Central Pointe Church of Christ and have since it's inception. Yes, we do have women ushers, yes, we do praise the Lord as we are commanded to do, however, I have never seen women taking up the collection. If you are going to state something with the implication that it is factual, you should make sure that what you're stating is true. In your study of scripture, do you not clearly read where lying is contrary to the word of God and where liers will go?

It is so unfortunate that we can't take the scripture and look at it as it was written and not try to impose our traditions and personal beliefs on to others to make them binding.

Instead of you saying that you don't think prayer will help our congregation, you need to turn those thoughts to yourself and pray for your understanding and discernment of scripture.

We will pray for you.

Let's pretend that I am Biblically illiterate--a common assumption.

Now, you want me to attend your church and I have never heard that the Lord wants me to engage in a PRAISE RITUAL. You also want me to pay for the experience.

How would you convince me that you are speaking of the assembly of Christ?

Ken,
From the aforementioned writings it's obvious that you are either a bible professor or one who is learned in biblical history, and probably the reason this website exists. Whatever the case may be Ken, speaking the truth in love is not your strong point. You words are vile and demeaning. The Christ I serve was direct, but never intending to denigrate anyone's character, but to bring them into the knowledge of what He wanted his followers to know about his mission and to share that with entire world (great commission). So what are the personal attacks about? Obviously you posses a demon. I would be afraid to ask you to share Jesus with anyone. I think you would give them one of your good old "tongue lashings" about what they believe and would never convince them that you love the Lord. Try some kindness when you speak, some people aren't as mature in the Lord, as maybe you are. Remember, there are others who are seeking truth, not dogma, not nasty words and inuendos and trying to belittle the reader or seeker.
I went to the Central Pointe' church on Sunday. I'm from Atlanta. I've never seen such a wonderful body of believers. My friend shared this website with me and I asked them would it be alright if I responded. The great commission said to go into all the world and guess what they are doing it like the book says. They even had 17 baptisms. Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing? It seems so stupid to me to be fighting about "ushers" and "praise leaders" and other things that bring unity to the body. But this website doesn't. We don't have any churches of Christ in Atlanta getting out there doing the will of God in this venue. Hungup on hangups, we're sill fighting about marriage and divorce and I'm 56 now. How long will we stumble over that?
And they (Central Pointe') fed about 150 persons after worship (some Hurricane survivors)and they are teaching the word my brother.
So let's STOP IT! Get on with saving souls as directed by scripture. And that incredible remark about the women keeping silent. Which church do you know operates without women? NONE that's right Ken you have the magic number.
I heard they started with 30 Ken. How many souls have you led to Christ and who do you preach for right now?

Stay faithful to Christ every reader and continue to do what's right Central Pointe' no matter which DEVIL comes at you cause I see they are everywhere. Seeking whom they may devour. Right Ken?

Let's pretend?

Let's pretend that I am Biblically illiterate--a common assumption.

Now, you want me to attend your church and I have never heard that the Lord wants me to engage in a PRAISE RITUAL. You also want to chase out the OWNERS so you can turn the SCHOOL OF CHRIST into a THEATER FOR "HOLY" ENTERTAINMENT. You don't know that the superstitious PRAISE word of David means to MAKE YOURSELF VILE. The prophets of Jezebel and of Asherah did PRAISE SERVICES.

How would you convince me that you are speaking of the assembly of Christ?

Jews, Muslims and atheists took care of people. People who don't use SUPERSTITIOUS PRAISE singing feed the poor. The church is a school of the Bible to feed the POOR IN SPIRIT because the enemy is not physical hunger: all of the failures in the Bible resulted from spiritual ignorance. The kingdom of Christ does not consist of FOOD AND DRINK: that is what you DID NOT DO during Wuurshup-uh time, right?

If you don't have the LORD AND HIS WORD with you then attack the person. You justification for deliberately sowing discord want hold water.

All kinds of ritualizing or musicating is CEREMONIAL LEGALISM: it didn't feed a single person.

Well Ken you keep venting your beliefs and not found trying to answer simple questions with a biblical answer. Not your interpretation of scripture. You're sounding more and more like Satan with each quip.

ALL of the deliberate sowing of discord in the last decade in churches of Christ has been by professional musicians or "musicating" type preachers who are so DOGMATICALLY CERTAIN that God wants a PRAISE SERVICE or RITUAL that it is worth driving weeping widows out into the cold and DISCORDING most of the people who will not be DRIVEN OUT of their own homes.

I simply want someone to tell me where we got the idea that the ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible should be to RITUALIZE by singing PRAISE songs which are not the Bible and using a form which is not Biblical and for the purpose which is the most ancient, legalistic, patternist superstition known to ancient cave dwellers and hunters and gatherers.

Do you have any reasons which you feel are worth deliberately sowing discord? Who convinced you that this was NOT a sign of the end times and WHAT is their reasons? Surely, everyone must have a good reason before breaking the kneecaps of widows with a baseball bat. I want YOU to try to understand why you beleive what you believe and WHO convinced you.

Stop beating a dead horse with your rhetoric. Give me scripture. Stop It asked you and now I want to know the same thing. You've stated what you believe, now give me scripture. Not what you've read in someone's book or by some man-made dogma. Scripture! Do you believe scripture? Oh maybe you're righting other churches who you've deemed are wrong on this website. Well when you have time please answer.
And that crack about being a "cult". Maybe you need to take another look at who's sounding cultish Ken.

I had hoped that before afflicting people with the Praise Craze which is one of the oldest, most legalistic, patternists, superstitious rituals known to mankind which probably MOST of the congregation FEELS as a sick feeling in the stomach, someone would have checked into the meaning of Praise as a RITUAL. All history knows that the lostness of tribalism saw the need to DO praise rituals to appease, seduce or even threaten the "gods" that if they didn't produce more (members) they would take their worship elsewhere. Most tribalists believed that without their PRAISE the gods would give up and fail.

First, you should grasp that Jesus did not promise to build a worship center or praise center but an ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible. This was left virtually unchanged from the synagogue which He endorsed. The First days of festivals and always the seventh days were not called days of worship but of REST. They were to hold a HOLY CONVOCATION which means to READ or REHEARSE the Word of God from copies or memory.

Praise in a spiritual sense means to TELL THE STORY OF GOD and Paul commanded that we use the words of God.

The PRAISE of David meant to "make self vile" with singing, playing instruments, dancing and stripping off your clothes. This PRAISE word is the source of the word LUCIFER who is ZOE. ALL of the instrumental Psalms are WARRIOR'S CHANT and God authorized the trumpets to send signals or terrorize the enemy. ALL music works because it creates the same ENDORPHINS as being terrorized by a saber toothed tiger would produce. The impulses are FIGHT, FLIGHT or SEXUALITY. All of these drug-highs are well known to damage the body just as a runner damages their body before they get the RUNNER'S HIGH.

After the nation of Israel had fallen from grace because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, ALL of the evidence including Stephen who enraged the clergy was that the music was a prayer and God TURNED THEM OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST. That is the ONLY authority you have for ANY music concept which always marked paganism.

God defined the ASSEMBLY which is a word for the synagogue and was what Stephen called "the church in the wilderness." When they assembled it was only for instructions and the church did not change anything but add the Lord's Supper. It did not add singing, preaching or giving money. Numbers 10:7 OUTLAWS the triumph or alarm which means "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord." Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to PANIC Jesus using the Clergy Warrior musicians to come for Jesus. I'm sorry if you have been too busy doing singy-clappy to notice that and no preacher is prepared to teach you.

The word PLEASURE was a sexual impulse to LIFT PEOPLE UP in mental anxiety which Jesus died to remove. The method was an exciting form of SINGING which was known as SORCERY. The purpose was HERESY which was to carry you away for the DEMAGOGUE'S own uses. Jesus EXAMPLED never being caught in a pagan arousal ritual and Paul directly commanded that we NOT do it. Otherwise, the diversity in Romans 14 could not be healed. It seems that someone is taking a united church and turning it BACKWARD to Romans 14.

Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. (education) Rom 15: 2

For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Rom 15: 3

Pleasuring is produced in the Greek texts by Demagogues who LIFT YOU UP with PRAISE SINGING in order to CARRY YOU AWAY for his own USES which means HERESY.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Rom 15: 4

You remember that Paul never commanded SINGING but SPEAKING one to another to TEACH and ADMONISH one another. All of the resources Paul defined are inspired by the Spirit of Christ.

Teaching is not SANGING but speaking to one another with Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs which are ALL the inspired text. The word SING is ODE and means to speak and it further defines PSALMOS as in "Hebrew Cantillation." That is why Paul said SPEAK to one another and not SING to one another..

Didaskalia (g1319) did-as-kal-ee'-ah; from 1320; instruction (the function or the information): - doctrine, learning, teaching.

The direct command to Timothy was:

Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 1 Tim 4:13

Attendance is a "worship" word meaning to hold the mind to.

Disciples are MADE by baptizing and teaching what Jesus taught and revealed through the apostles. Every school boy who aspired to be a DISCIPLE of a master tentmaker could comprehend that.

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Rom 15: 5

Jesus did not try to AROUSE spiritual excitement. If He had done so He COULD NOT be a Teacher of SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE.

That ye may with one MIND and one MOUTH glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15: 6

PRAISE means to tell the story of God and only God knows how. Paul defined the way to GLORIFY God which is by speaking HIS Words. If we "sang" Twila Paris then we WORSHIP Twila Paris.

That defines the ekklesia or synagogue which solves the diversity problem in Romans 14, BOTH of which had a music for PLEASURING practice.

Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Rom 15:7

SINGING as an act as opposed to teaching was introduced in the year 373 and unity has been destroyed every time people want to MUSICATE.

The NEW STYLE PRAISE SINGING from the OLD STYLE Towers of Babylon INTENDS to sow discord to drive the old people out into the cold so they can attract body worshipers: Pleasuring is still called heresy. I sense some GLORIFYING in being able to sow discord?

I seldom read this site anymore. Honestly I can't stomach the antagonism, the harrassment, and the generally demeaning and judgemental nature displayed by the main contributors. However, I happend to be on today and noticed this thread regarding Central Pointe and Reginald Dulin and felt compelled to write.

Though Brother Dulin needs absolutely no defense, since his work speaks for itself, I must say that having known of him and his family, who are staunch members of the church of Christ in Winston-Salem, NC, where I lived for 11 years, I can say without a doubt that most of the accusations presented here, if any, are completely exaggerated. Listen to the member from CPCC who wrote in. She corrected some misinformation that had been given earlier.

Better than that, call Brother Dulin. He'll be most happy to talk with anyone. And as to his rebaptism and reasons for it, quite plainly IT IS NONE OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS! LET IT GO!

People, read your bibles. Don't give a whole lot of credence to this sight. And, certainly don't let it replace the time you would normally spend with family or your personal time with the Lord.

I have visited central point on several occasions i have never seen any women or so called angles seving in collection or any other capacity other than ushering and welcoming guest at the doors plus if you can sho me were it is written that a lady can not welcome people into the house of god I will kindly keep quiet.We are ther to worship god.

I have attended Church of Christ worship services where women served communion, passed the collection plate and read announcements. Who allowed them to do it? The open minded church leaders allowed it. These women are not being disobedient.

Anyway, what does that have to with you worshipping GOD? A new day is coming in the Church of Christ all over the world. Once all these old pioneer ministers die off watch things really change FOR THE BETTER. AMEN!!!!

Sorry Donnie, but I've attended RH many times, as recently as this past weekend, and have never witnessed women serving communion there...other than to pass the tray to the person seated next to them on the pew. Unless that counts as "serving communion", which I guess it could in some twisted way, your statement is simply false. Have you visited there and witnessed it, or only "heard" about it?

There is only ONE congregation I've ever been to (I visit a few around the country, with work and other travels) that I've witnessed women serving communion, and they were doing it in conjunction with and under the leadership of their husbands.

Thank you for the benefit of the doubt regarding women serving communion at RH. Drives me UP THE WALL when people comment about things based on what they've "heard" or otherwise have no personal experience with or about.

In keeping with that, I am not a member at RH, even though I visit periodically, hence I cannot make an informed observation about the "special servant" issue, or how and why the eldership there took those actions. I have not heard any of their teaching on the issue, nor was I around for the circumstances at the time.

My "guess" (and it is JUST that...a "guess") is that "special servant" at RH translates into what many congregations would call a "ministry leader" (informally) or "chair" (formally) of some sort of ministry committee, which I've observed in many congregations to be functionally equivalent to a "deacon"... i.e. "Benevolence Committee", "Education Committee", "Outreach Ministry", etc. Again, just a guess, NOT a statement of fact as to the situation at RH.

I will comment, however, that I have great difficulty in viewing a deacon's role (or an elder's or minister's role for that matter) as an "office", as you put it, as if a political position to which one aspires. These are roles of service and leadership, rooted in relationships and concern for the church and the community of the lost. To put the term "office" on these roles does an injustice to the responsibilities of the individuals who fulfill those duties.

Lastly, I did not "fail" to mention the congregation I spoke of that had women participating in the serving of communion. I deliberately did not mention it b/c I do not want that congregation to become "marked" in this forum. I believe this forum does MUCH more harm to the church that it does good (another topic for another day), and I do not want to encumber this congregation, which continues to reach lost souls in an otherwise very secular part of the country.

What I meant by "in conjunction with and under the leadership of their husbands” is that MEN lead the prayers for each element of communion (as well as the other aspects of the worship assembly), and that husband and wife teams share the responsibility of passing the plates to their assigned sections. So, whereas in most congregations, two men may be paired up to pass the communion elements to a section of the congregation, this duty is fulfilled by a man and his wife together serving a section of the congregation.

Quite a beautiful means of a husband and wife being able to serve together, in my opinion, especially in the current culture of so many couples (even couples IN THE CHURCH) living emotionally and spiritually distant from each other. And as I mentioned, this the ONE and ONLY congregation in which I've ever observed this.

The objection to Christian sisters serving communion is man-made "Church of Christ" tradition and only that. When some of you guys make a law saying that "it's wrong", you are "speaking where the Bible HAS NOT spoken", thus you become the "liberal" for taking such liberties with God's Word. Women who serve communion are not speaking and not leading. Is it not called SERVING communion???

i am a member here and have been since day #1 .I was raised in the CHURCH OF christ all of my life and i have not witnessed any of the things that you are implying nothing has been added or taken away from the book. There is nothiong wrong with having ushers in the church Show me were in the Bible it is written that you can not have Ushers in the church the women here DO NOT server on the collection that is a lie.If you dis like our way of worship DONT COME BACK....

I just read..with interest, your comments regarding a church you recently visited. The most astonishing thing to me was your final statement..I know this is not right in the Church of Christ. This has been my issue all along. We judge things by "the church of Christ" and NOT by the Bible. See what the Bible says. If someone feels a need to be baptized again, more power to them. I would NEVER want to stand in the way of someone seeing a need to make that decision, especially if they made it at a young age and felt compelled to do it again.

Praise teams. IF a church chooses to have a praise team..that's their business. You may be asking..where's the biblical authority for such? I couldn't agree mre. And where is your's for church buildings?? song books?? church bulletins?? etc...and on and on and on it goes. We oppose what we "want" to oppose..and "stand firm" on things we've always done in the church. It's really quite amusing.


Tim Hall
Huntsville, Alabama

Women (whom the preacher refers to as his "Angels") ushering, and serving on the collection.

2.) Praise Teams ("Praise Leaders")

3.) The preacher was said to have been "re-baptized", once they got their new church building.

I know this is not right in the Church of Christ. Has anyone else observed these things???

Re: Astonished at choice of words

Tim,

"Choice of words," I agree, can lead someone else to misunderstand or misinterpret or take some explanation out of context. But I believe that the writer of the initial post intended to say, "this is not right by what the church believes the Holy Scripture does or does not teach."

In the case of "rebaptism," we read of such instances in the book of Acts. What was the reason then? Is it for the same reason that one needs to be baptized AGAIN? Overall, this is a very delicate religious matter or issue to deal with. Several factors need to be taken into consideration regarding this "practice." Understanding God's design and purpose for an individual to be "BURIED WITH CHRIST IN BAPTISM unto [toward] the FORGIVENESS OF SINS in His blood" is paramount to feeling compelled or have "the need" to be baptized "for the remission of sins" AGAIN. [BTW, this would make a good topic for discussion, perhaps, in a separate thread.]

In regard to "praise teams," it is not sufficient to simply say, "if a church chooses to have a praise team." If you're not aware of what's been going on in the brotherhood, the use of the "praise team" or a ["Baptist"] CHOIR has wreaked havoc in the church as what the Madison, TN congregation experienced in the early part of this decade. Half of its membership left. Heard of this congregation, haven't you?

It's illogical to make a comparison between "praise teams" [comprised of breathing men and women CO-LEADING] and INANIMATE OBJECTS as the song books, church buildings, church bulletins, etc.

The "praise team" concept is a major issue in churches of Christ. Is there a need for a CHOIR for attendants to listen to or to do the singing for/to the congregation? Is the CHOIR/Praise Team to supplant congregational singing? Is it to impress our denominational friends and neighbors? Why does the "Praise Team" consist of elite singers? Why is the ENTIRE CONGREGATION not considered the praise team?

The elders of each congregation must be very careful in considering the implementation of programs and practices. If the purpose is to be just like "the other nations," then, it is the wrong objective. Why implement something or anything that is controversial, unnecessary and divisive?

The word PRAISE in the Bible means most often to "make yourself vile" or drive yourself into madness. "Praise" singing is one of the oldest, most superstitious legalisms known to mankind. The DRIVEN PURPOSE was to come to the aid of the gods or THREATEN them that you might take your business elsewhere. Such praise singers were always emotionally or sexually abnormal.

Second Chronicles Chapter 5 is used to say that God commanded instrumental praise and we must not disobey God's direct command. This is based on the belief that the Levitical Warriors under the King and Commanders of the Army constitutes a legalistic patternism for restoring their role in non - instrumental churches of Christ. Because of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God turned them over to worship the starry host. The Levites who were identified with the Sabbath and Dionysus in Egypt, were literally given as a SACRIFICIAL OFFERING for all of the rest of the nation. They became in fact scapegoats.

Their task even with Jesus was to "make the lambs silent before the slaughter." Music or mystery was always to impose silence on the victim. It needs no proving that when the TEAM is performing effeminate songs JESUS must be silent. Church is a school of the Bible and decent people do not do childish praise singing when Jesus comes to be our ONLY teacher when the elders "teach that which has been taught."

Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments [Sword or Musical]
of cruelty are in their habitations.
Gen. 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret;
unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united:
for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall

In fact, the Spiritual were outlawed from the Sacrificial system and attended synagogue to rest, read and rehearse the Word of God: just what Jesus exampled and Paul commanded and the church practiced before singing was IMPOSED in the year 373.

"Dan," he says, "shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse-heels, so that his rider shall fall backwards (i.e., he will teach candidates black magic) .

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way,
an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels,
so that his rider shall fall backward.

When Peter says "save yourselves from this CROOKED race" and John and Jesus called them a "race of vipers" the text clearly point to the symposium where they "got drunk on wine" or were "fluted down with wine" as they performed their skolion songs.

Biteth is: 5391. nashak, naw-shak´; a primitive root; to strike with a sting (as a serpent); figuratively, to oppress with interest on a loan: bite, lend upon usury.

This is the bite of the same "serpent" in the garden of Eden:

5175. nachash, naw-khawsh´; from 5172; a snake (from its hiss):--serpent.
5172. nachash, naw-khash´; a primitive root; properly, to hiss, i.e. whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate: certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) x enchantment, learn by experience, x indeed, diligently observe.

Nachuwsh (h5153) naw-khoosh'; appar. pass. part. of 5172 (perh. in the sense of ringing, i. e. bell-metal; or from the red color of the throat of a serpent [5175, as denom.] when hissing); coppery, i. e. (fig.) hard: - of brass.

Nechiylah (h5155) nekh-ee-law'; prob. denom. from 2485; a flute: - [plur.] Nehiloth.
Chaliyl (h2485) khaw-leel'; from 2490; a flute (as perforated):
Dan and the Temple Builder

2Chr. 2:13 And now I have sent a cunning man, endued with understanding,
of Huram my fathers,
2Chr. 2:14 The son of a woman of the daughters of Dan [Naphtali 1Ki 7:14], and his father was a man of Tyre, skilful to work in gold, and in silver, in brass, in iron, in stone, and in timber, in purple, in blue, and in fine linen, and in crimson; also to grave any manner of graving, and to find out every device which shall be put to him, with thy cunning men, and with the cunning men of my lord David thy father.

In fact God promised David a TENT, but Solomon built Him a house, but God is not worshipped in houses built by human hands or by the works of human hands.

Therefore, you have to HALLUCINATE any concept of a CLERGY TEAM performing praise songs FOR the rest claiming to be able to lead them into the presence of God. They CLAIM to be God in Christ and they DO stand in the holy place as typified by the Holy Place in the pagan temple. Any singer or instrument playere who went into the type of the Church of Christ would be executed.

ALL music terms and names of instruments points to "fruits" and "sorcerers" performing for the mother of harlots (Rev 17-18)

I have posted some rough notes where JESUS shows the contrast between the assembly where HE sends people with HIS words in contrast to the DOGS and SORCERERS.

http://www.piney.com/Revelation.22.html

I have also posted a review of Second Chronicles Chapter Five which is the AUTHORITY for false teachers to impose instruments knowing that they are sowing discord and inviting the OWNERS to get over it or get out.

http://www.piney.com/SecondChroniclesFive.html

Everyone has the direct command to test the spirits and help people being robbed of their church building, church family and even being told that "you might have to choose between instruments and your family."