Has anyone noticed or feel some of the "community church" influences at WHCOC?

The 'Crown financial' class is being taught, and the worship service now includes a "praise team"... the song leader was refered to as our "worship leader".

We were visiting, as they have moved into a new building, and were very surprised.

Ohhh no praise teams, worship leaders!.. How horrible..
How about spending your time saving the lost instead of worrying about what a church calls its staff.

Ohhh, Johnny,

Why do praise teams and worship leaders have to intrude and cause others in the church that doesn’t have them to worry about its staff?

What about spending your time with a denomination that already has praise teams (choirs) and worship leaders and where no one worries about what its staff is called? I am sure that its members will welcome you and make you feel you belong.

Donnie

That does sound like an excellent idea, since most CofC's are pretty issue-driven instead of spirit-driven. Instead I've found a CofC who is actually doing it right. I pray that the CofC's will continue to change and more souls are saved.

J. J. The DRIVING issue of ALL deliberate sowing of discord IS the "spirit."

Now, SPIRIT is not a WHOM unless you are speaking of His Incarnation and His name is "Jesus Christ the Righteous."

Other than when personified like Love or Faith or Grace (the brown-eyed Greek prostitute), SPIRIT is always a WHAT. It is NEUTER.

J.J. has a "spirit" issue means that he thinks that the discorder has THE Spirit inside of HIS carnal body and THAT is to pressure you into thinking that HE is really another INCARNATION.

The preacher has a NASTY spirit when you challenge him: that does not mean that he has a little fella named NASTY living inside of his body.

There be only ONE God and his name is Jehovah-Saves: He THINKS as father, He SPEAKS as Son or WORD and His BREATH (Spirit) propels His Word outward.

Jesus said MY WORDS are SPIRIT (John 6:63). Only in the Charismatic ISSUE of the Voodoo spirit (little man (spirit) in the big man (ME)) which goes along with the Voodoo MUSIC, has the Spirit as a ONE THIRD of a PECAN PIE heresy become an ISSSUE.

The Mind of Christ IS the Spirit and HE was competent to put SPIRIT (mind) into His Words. But ONLY when your read it as it has been taught does the SPIRIT speak and you can prophesy if you can say, as the oracle of God, 'Thus saith the Lord." There are no other SPEAKING roles in a "spiritual kingdom" which is WITHIN you. Oh Lord, there I go, now we gotta worry about a WHOLE KINGDOM (King, castle, warriors, dung heap) and EVERRYTHING inside of us.

If we quit blaspheming by firing the SON so we can now HEAR the spirit, there will be almost no ISSURS.

The difference in a LIBERAL is that he has MORE and more COSTLY issues. Accusing others for being ISSUE DRIVING is an ISSUE. no what i mean?

We have a problem " Houston"

Donnie what is your solution to the declining population of COC members of an intact COC that does not bring in new members to help the Church grow as economic issues force the Church to close its doors due to it can not pay the overhead to keep its doors open.

Since most old COC church memebers only cater to it's own members to stay comfortable.

You must have forgotten of never took Business Administration .

Less GRACE than I thought.

Here is what you are to do by the DIRECT COMMAND OF GOD. First, you FIRE your overhead. That will probably fix it.

Next, radicalize your WORSE SHUP services to conform to the command for the "church in the wilderness," what Jesus built, what Paul commanded and all of the churches PRACTICED until the pagan priests with their PhDuh as pagan priests came flocking in

That is, you CALL YOURSELF into assembly and turn it into a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE, quit telling them the lie about THE LAW OF GIVING and you will get more money and don't worry about numbers. The old building may already have been turned into a theater so we can make it into a topless bar.

Next, quit spreading the lie that all churches of Christ are DYING and people care only about themselves: some need to die or be pruned. The church was not built to be a SEEKER CENTER but a small, local school of the Bible where those who PROSPERED helped those who were DESTITUTE.

Well Ken you opened the door. Either you do not read the newspapers and read about the current economics " Cost Of Electricty,Water,Gas,Sewage, Heating and cooling," you must have and oil and gas well in your back yard" Maintence of the Building, just to mention a few little things that you seem to think we are in 100 AD where alot of churches were open fields, " We live in the year 2006 Ken " Where cost of everything has Risen , " WAKE UP GET A GRIP " this is the real world with economics in place

Just by your input you can only conclude get ride of the staff and the doors will stay open.

Ken you had better drive down the road and open your eyes and see the Name of COC being remove from the buildings , I have seen several where the parking lots were empty before now there are Christians filling the church.
" oh wait your term of Christian and the worlds term of a Christian disagree"

Ken we live in the here and now , not the past 2000 years ago ,
You by no means understand the economic tread of this country.

You just failed "ECONOMICS"

You have been busted , your only discource on this forum is your own interpretaions with a slanted view, yours only . At no time have you ever stated how to bring people into the Lords House. You have of course are trying to break up the chruches with your scare tactics .

Our campus group has taken all of your input from all of your postings , you have very little to say and not one answer.

The LORD'S HOUSE is an invisible kingdom: you cannot see it.

Does your campusses know the meaning of 'God is NOT worshipped in houses built by human hands.

How about "God is not worshipped by human HANDS." That means raising, clapping or swinging or swaying? Ever heard about that.

The direct COMMAND is that you give oxen nibbles to anyone honest enough to have a GO button. Jesus said GO and make disciples. That means STUDENTS and not RITUAL WORSHIPPERS. Then you move on and probabyl don't need a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT.

When you see names OOPSED it means that a hireling-changeling has been trained to INFILTRATE and DIVERT and lie, cheat and steal the church houses of widows and CONFISCATE them mostly by the so-called chirstian church which had the congenital defect of trying to confiscate peaceable churches and make them PAGAN theaters. It was a well planned effort by the UNITY MEETERS who USED some fools from churches of Christ to BETRAY churches.

The weeping widows have been BOOTED: ever hear of college kids PRAYING that the old people leave or we have us some early funerals.

Sooner the better: Jesus asked "shall He find faith when He returns?" No, almost none. The meaning of the holy whore in Revelation is to SEPARATE those with the mark of the BEAST and hold them in PUNISHMENT. As an Engineer and literate reader of the Towers of Babylon, music actually HURTS but induces a DRUG HIGH which those practicing the Lucifer (Zoe) principle can SELL as the "spirit" person.

Those MARKED by baptism and the Word will have been SEPARATED out by "fleeing Babylon" so they will not be LEFT BEHIND with those doing a trumpet quartet when the quiet voice sounds. I am QUITE CERTAIN that the magical music phenomena IS the trumpet blast. They didn't know anything during the FIRST ADVENT and no reason you should be any smarter in the NOW Advent.

Like the warning in Amos, Jesus will have BEEN HERE AND GONE and "will not pass this way again." I see those being ejected from their own property as ALREADY RAPTURED.

Why don't you start a COLLEGE KIDS thread and tell me how you know so much.

ECONOMICS: if you build a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT, LUCIFER (ZOE) WILL COME as "the singing and harp playing prostitute."

All you know is some bad proof texting from preachers and have never read the prophets who UNIVERSALLY associate music with Satan, prostitutes and perverts. That is ALSO the universal meaning among the GREEKS.

Yes, I have noticed the change. They seem to be testing the bounds. They go a little far one week and obviously get push back from some members and throttle it back just enough. Let the members settle just a little bit and then push forward with the movement even farther the next time. Slowly but steadily changing the dynamics of the Church of Christ into a "purpose driven" church.

The process identified by Lynn Anderson who learned from Machiavelli, Hitler and Hegel is called "prayerful brinkmanship." You PUSH to the brink hard enough not to get caught or fired. You retreat and give it another lung but you NEVER GIVE UP.

Lynn Anderson:"In segment two, the tempo of the class shifted abruptly into celebrative praise and worship, with contemporary songs projected on a screen in colorful graphics. Readings, prayers, and singing clustered around a single theme. The worship team led directly from one song to the next without interruption,

intentionally moving the tone and content of worship in a specific direction,
gathering the congregation into the momentum of the experience.
A few songs included clapping and one or two worshipers actually 'lifted holy hands.'
The beaming expressions of the worship leaders spread to the class members.

"Several short Scripture readings moved quickly from one reader to the next, climaxing in a congregational responsive reading.... The feeler/creative right-brainers were transported while thinker/analytical left-brainers rolled their eyes, and their body language said, 'Oh, please! Give me a break!"

The CLIMAX word is not accidental. The Vineyard lady who fuels all of the NEW STYLE MUSIC FROM OLD STYLE BABYLON suggests that what you are producing is a sexual like climax with GOD. The FACES prove it. All of the pagan religions had women musicians serve as THE HAREM OF THE GODS. They were actually engaging in sexuality with the "gods" but it was really the AGENT or MUSIC LEADER who was USING you to get his jollies by watching you move in HARMONY which was the goal of all pagan musical worship. The Greeks called it an aural and visual orgasm. The black Voodoo claimed that the spirits would not come until they had been called down. Amazingly, the boast that the MUSIC THINGIES can "lead you into the presence of the gods."

Church theologians note that when males PERFORMED they were "drunk or perverts."

Neo-Paganism: "Praise Offerings most often consist of songs and poems, preferably original, designed to have the maximum emotional impact. We have also had ritual drama performances and storytellings, as well as ritual dances.

"Pacing is absolutely critical here, because this is the main "power raising" for your ceremony . The folks who plan to offer Praise should show their material to everyone during rehearsals, or at least to the presiding clergy beforehand,

so that the best possible performance order be worked out ahead of time.

Then people can be called upon to offer their Praises in such an order as to generate the greatest possible amount of energy.

You are being MIND ALTERED like the WORST kind of CULT using Witchcraft and VOODOO which fuels all of the snake handling, charismatic music.

See more Lynn Anderson http://www.piney.com/WinAnderson.html

See some Witchcraft and Voodoo from the Emerging Church being pushed at Tulsa this week.
http://www.piney.com/Spectacle.Worship.2.html

See the Voodoo connection http://www.piney.com/RmHymns.html
http://www.piney.com/RmHymns.html

I agree with Grace. Doing good works out of fear is not true trust and faith in God. Genuine faith says "I have complete trust in my all loving and all powerful God and Father and I desire to do His will". False faith says "I'm unsure if God is all loving and all powerful but I in my power and strength can make up for God's shortcomings". False faith does not trust in God's righteousness but has faith in self righteousness. Of course we are all self righteous at various times throughout our lives. Our goal as Paul stated is to continue on the journey to becoming more and more like Christ. This is the work we do out of a genuine faith and love for God. If we are motivated by fear then our work is in vain because the faith is missing. There is no love in fear. True faith will produce loving obedience. We take up our cross daily. We are compelled to love our God because He first loved us. Sincere faith compels us to honor and glorify our Lord.

I agree that West is changing slowly. Other members have addressed this as well.I did attend West for a long time, but I noticed the changes on a slow basis. I have seen other Church of Christ congregations change as well to the point they dropped the name of the church or left the building to join other denominations to become a community church. Or they had splits where the liberals stayed and the consevatives left or the other way around. I see them heading in that direction. Needless to say we left. We love each and every Christian at West, but we are sad to see such a strong and vital church be influenced by the outside world of other religions just to bring people to the Lord. Also, to address the fact that some parents of teens are staying just because their kids like it there. Someone told me that if you feel in your heart strongly something is wrong, than you as parents need to decide for your kids how they should be brought up in the church and stop making "I am staying because my kids like it here, but if they didn't we would not be here" an excuse for staying. You either like what is going on in the Church and want to stay, or you tell your kids the truth of how you feel, and tell them you made the decision to leave, and attend somewhere where you feel that the kids will be influenced the way you want them raised in the church. This statement was the biggest influence in our change of congregations.

Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myslef a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in it's blesings.

How would Paul, who wrote the above words in I Corinthians 9, reposnd to the attitude, "It is sad to see the church being influenced by others just to bring people to the Lord." Isn't that what disciples are called to do? Bring people to the Lord? May God grant us all grace as we serve him more.

Too bad that you have been suckered into the becoming all things.

Paul commanded Timothy to WORK and to practice the Agape. That would mean that you work like other honest people when they are working. Then, as a MINISTER you sponsor the morning meal as day laborers go out to find work.

Paul left a PATTERN that others should follow: if they will not work neither shall they eat.

Paul was NOT speaking of sponsoring a THEATRICAL PERFORMANCE to suck in the seekers. Paul would work alongside a laborer to be able to teach them. He would suffer capture and ship wreck to preach baptism to the Jews in Jerusalem and on board ship.

"Alfred Martin introduces this section of Scripture with extremely accurate insight when he says,

"This paragraph has been widely misunderstood and misapplied,

as though Paul were endorsing partaking of other men's sins in order to make a good impression on them."

"It is a fact that many leaders of today's megachurch growth movement and many leaders of parachurch evangelistic organizations use this portion of Scripture to support their philosophy that
"One must become like the unsaved in order to reach the unsaved for Christ."

"However, Martin emphasizes that instead of embracing this attitude, "Paul was saying that he had tried to work with people on their own level and to give as little offense as possible in order to procure a hearing for the Gospel." Paul certainly did not become a law unto himself, nor did he pretend to act or live like the unsaved in an effort to evangelize them. The issue here concerns the amount of offense inflicted upon those who know not Christ.

Here is some Shelly Heresy:

http://www.piney.com/AllThingsShelly.html

This will lead you to several sectons to prove that a TRUE evangelist is identified as a suffering servant and not a theatrial performer in sermon and song. This is the END TIME Babylon Harlot religion of Revelation 18 where you become ALL THINGS to the masses but only a tiny REMNANT will be saved. They will be OUTSIDE the camp or masses suffering reproaches with Jesus. Jesus will not be there where they LIE about worshiping God but are engaged in "the idolatry of talent." This is the Lucifer Principle or the ZOE principle.

While you are ENABLING able bodied parasites and SAVE A FEW SOULS, the world will grow from about 6 billion to 10 billion probably in your lifetime. Shouldn't you pray that God will give you a GO BUTTON?

I am not upset or nor will I judge, but I am sorry that you misunderstood what it was I was trying to say to another member at West. I said other outside world religions. I grew up all my life in the Church, and it was striving well enough without the influences such as praise teams, which is another word for choir. When I was growing up the whole congregation would sing. It mattered not who could sing well or not. The sound of music filled the building with the voices of the Church as we were instructed to sing, which is making melodies in our hearts. We all participated and noone was singled out. Also, the Elders made it a rule that no instruments of any kind was to enter the building what so ever.This was to insure that no instrumental music never got started within the worship services.We are to follow the teachings of the New Testament, and the First Century Church never used instruments in their worship. Therfore we are to do the same, no instruments in worship.As far as the Old Testament goes.Amos 5:18-27 and Amos 6:1-14.Amos 5:21 "I hate, I despise your religious feasts; I cannot stand your assemblies." Amos 5:23 "Away with the noise of your songs!I will not listen to the music of your harps." Amos 6:1 "Woe to you who are complacent in Zion, and to you who feel secure on Mount Samaria, you notable men of the foremost nation, to whom the people of Israel come!" Amos 6:5 " You strum away on your harps like David and improvise on musical instruments." So if they were put down for this, and other acts that seem to be slowly coming into our worship in this age, and time, would it not be the same message to us today? What I really am saying is that a lot of members were not raised in the church, and lot of new churches today are being lead by members that were not raised in the Church, so a lot of other outside influences from other religions, are coming into the church.They are members that have been usually raised in other religions, and they come in sometimes with their preconceived ideas of how the Church is, and how it should be by their standards, which is usually based on their upbringing, but not always God's own standards.Three times in the Bible it says do not add or subtract from the word of God. If we add instruments to worship would we not be adding to the Bible when we do not follow the instructions given to the First Century Church? Then we become complacent to allow it to happen, rather than making a stand against it. I am not saying however that small groups are bad. We need them during wedding,special programs outside of worship, and sometimes funerals, since it is hard to gather the whole congregation for this. But during times of worship when we are all instucted to sing, why only a select few? Some people might just stop singing all together thinking well they selected good singers to sing so they must think I am not good enough to sing, so there is no reason to anymore, and then more and more people around you start relying on them rather then singing as God commanded them to do.Hebrews 2:11-12 "Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.He says,"I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.""(No mention of instrumental music) Then they are not thinking about worshipping they are thinking other things.So again people become complacent. When we come complacent and allow the influences to continue then we loose ourselves, and the Church looses sight of its main goal " The Truth!"We are all disciples and we should be looking to bring people to God but we should set them straight as to the true teachings of Christ and the writing of the First Century Church, not someone's preconcieved ideas.We are there to worship God and all His Glory not to entertain ourselves and others. Why take that chance? West said they would never allow instruments in worship. I hope not. Other churches who started with simple things like these praise teams have moved up to allowing instruments in worship.Then moving up to changing their standards by which are not God's standards. His should always come first.

West Houston COC update-
We still do not have a playground for the kids- in $12m campus that we
have been in almost 18 months....

We now have a "worship" minister that is on staff (salaried position)
and the usual "auditions" to be on the praise team have begun. We are
now being shown video clips with full instrumental music soundtracks as
lead-in bits to communion.

We've added an 8ft tall Crucifix to the center of the stage in the
auditorium.

According to the pewback- we have 150 some new members, but attendance
is pretty much hovering just below 1000 for both services combined for
quite some time now. It may be that with a large family, there are
always a certain number of people that will be gone each week."

Soon, they will start serving donuts and coffee in the foyer before service.

I bet some will confuse this with communion---A very slippery slope.

Shirley, I thought you were attending that CoC that's kind of pentacostal--I think they judge too.

You said:

the song leader was refered to as our "worship leader".

Isn't he, though? If he isn't a leader, then could a woman get up there are start the songs? And if you considering singing to be worship, then being the "sing leader" is the same as being the "worship leader," is it not?

It's all in the semantics.

[Ken, please do not get started on my singing comment; let other people have their own conversations for once.]

Jessica-
I saw some other posts you have submitted- so where do attend school?

My alma mater in Arkansas has changed by leaps and bounds over the years since i attended college..... Not sure if my kids will be "allowed" to go there if things keep "progressing" like they seem to be.

Gee, could that be Harding?

Wasn't that school named after Warren Harding?

The church should be for the "community."

If I wanted exclusivity, I would go to the country club brunch on Sunday morning instead.

I just don't like judgmental people. If I wanted that, I could still go to the Baptist church. I really feel the judgment there.

betty- you ate a closet Baptist- you just won't admit it. How was brunch last Sunday at the "club"?

I did not “ate” a Baptist. I’m not a cannibal.

The food at the club was okay, but I prefer the casseroles at the potluck dinners instead.

How you durrin.

Betty, I knew you were forsaking the assembly--we missed you.

You need to send that casserole recipe to me.

All of the false preachercators use the same FALSE DOGMA spread by the christian church writers. There is not a SINGLE instance in, say, the major collection by Tom Burgess and regurgitated by others which does not deliberately lie about the Bible and all of the Greek literature they dredge up while bottom fishing. What they do NOT quote is the CONTEXT which proves that all of the AUTHORITY is in the context of older males PLUCKING the harp as a way to invite and seduce young men as "youth ministers" who already had their hair PLUCKED for the powerful binding of flesh and spirity together in sodomy: that which they tried and may have performed on Jesus.

We are reviewing all of Rick Atchley's PROOF TEXT as authority to massively sow discord and make HIS church into a laughingstock. That is the RESULT of boasting about being a MEGA-CHURCH and accepting worship: just like the king of Babylon God puts you in hell to burn and rot on a bed of maggots along with the harps and still-breathing harpists. I have pictures.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/177121/

Contrary to "god's annointeds" my divine presence welcomes any comment.

Ken,

Gee, you're so judgmental.

Take a nerve pill before you stroke-out.

Let me know what church you attend so that I can strike it from my list to attend.

By the way, what kind of job do you have to sit around and post on this message board during all periods in a day? It must be some sort of government job.

Betty

"... seeing it is but the third hour of the day."

There was a question earlier about “why is this posted here?”

http://www.network54.com/Forum/177121/

Answer: When a congregation goes with the Community/Charismatic/Church-Growth-Movements “flow” as approved by the ELDERS…. When a congregation begins using instrumental music in the assembly—at the expense of splintering churches of Christ—in order to appease and have fellowship with the Christian Churches on their terms, as approved by the ELDERS…. Then, the link provided by Ken is correct and appropriate.

After all, the initial post stated “community church,” “praise team,” and “worship leader.” These are clear evidences of the culture-driven trends that leaders of a congregation are embracing. As you already know, it is the link to the Richland Hills forum. If it weren’t for that being a separate forum, RHCC would be one of those churches listed here—no doubt.

BTW, the elders and their faulty and erroneous decisions have much to do with problems and issues confronting congregations. See how ignorance of what the Holy Scripture really teaches, specifies and directs leads to such decisions? I think it is good to provide links to other sources for relevant information and issues being discussed.

------------------------

Betty,

You said earlier, too, you “just don’t like judgmental people” and used the word “judge” in another post. Do you consider people expressing their opinions as being judgmental? And what about when you express your own opinions?

Ken is a retired engineer who has been wisely spending much of his time doing researches on various issues, especially those that are confronting the church. Likewise, it would be a well-spent time reading the information he has constantly provided for us. He has done an excellent job of exposing the errors of some of the “leaders” and elders who make decisions for congregations they serve. He has the scriptures and historical evidences on his side.

I guess it would be OK for you to call that judgmental—in your sense of the word.

Donnie

Now, Betty B., Judgment is what happens when you lie, cheat and steal the church house of widows to PROCURE a "venue for theatrical performance." Judgment means that you EXECUTE A SENTENCE.

Telling liars that they are liars is RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT: all of the prophets spoke agains pagan music and Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrel girls LIKE DUNG. Only males who were drunk or perverts could be enticed to do THAT. If they do not speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN then Jesus says that they are SONS OF THE DEVIL. Peter warned people to save themselves FROM that crooked generation. Now, this sppeaks of the charismatic, musical and always perverted agents of Zeus and Dionysus who was the ANTICIPATED Messiah.

People who collect your money under false pretenses and then DIVERT it to their SECRET, DECADE OLD AGENDA, we call those JUDGES. If they did not wear the MASK OF RELIGION we would send them to the big rock pile. GOD HAS PREPARED TOPHETH OR HELL SPECIFICIALLY FOR THE MUSICAL AGENTS AND ALL THEY CAN SEDUCE (Isa 30) John called them agents of the Mother of Harlots performing SORCERY. Now, was that nice, John?

Now, in a few days I will reach the majestic age of 76 and the computer keeps me from spitting and whittling and watching the girls at the court house.

I say to you that MOST preachers who have no ROLE not FUNDING are passing judgment by, in the words of Jesus, "taking away the key to knowledge."

Now, I live in the high forest land of Hohenwald, Tennessee. I used to attend a little dead church in the high woods. But, health and 'randy' singers forced me to RETIRE from RELIGIONISM. After being a believer since about 1942, I finally found the blessed SILENCE which is demanded when JESUS speaks and became a DISCIPLE. Jesus promises to meet with the TWOS AND THREES,

I always knew but was too CULTIFIED to admit it for fear of the hell thingy CREATED for those who forsake the sasembly, do not observe the Law of Giving and who question God's annointed who just graduated from Anti Christ University with a STACK of sermon outlines but never having read the Bible.

So, I confirmed the belief that most of the Laidity always believed but was too fearful to ask:

There is NO LAW OF PREACHING: Jesus READ, Paul DIALOGED, commanded Timothy to READ and that is what happened until preachers came streaming in after Constantine to get on the DOLE. Peter identified the CORRUPTERS OF THE WORD which means 'selling learning at RETAIL" and also means 'adultery.'

Therefore, there is no ACT OF LISTENING to a sermon.

There is NO LAW OF GIVING: Jesus paid it all and Paul denied that it was a law and said that even his PRESENCE would be an EXTORTING influence and that would place him with FORNICATORS. ALL honest history confirms it. So, there is no FUNDING for false preachers, singers,actors, instrumentalists, about $50,000 to convert your "bible school" into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT. Therefore, they have to ROB widows and hard working HONEST people of their health care and food money. As God warned the Elders, the kings [senior pastors] will TAKE your tithe and make MINISTRIES for all of his cronnies and crooniettes.

There is NO LAW OF SANGING: The ekklesia EXCLUDES it and Paul EXCLUDED it with the word SPEAK which with a PhDuh from Anti Christ U you translate as MAKE MUSIC. That was added abut the time preachers were added as pagan priests flocked to the "pig trough" close to the year 400. It sowed discord then and they began to violate other DIRECT COMMANDS by composing their own songs and sermons.

Why do YOU defend those who are lying, cheating and stealing church houses and DELIBERATELY SOWING MASSIVE DISCORD? Are not THEY the judges? I just tell the TRUTH and right now I know of NO OTHER SOURCE in the brotherhood or sisterhood to learn anything above Gopher Wood 101. I will shortly post some Psalm 45 LIE DETECTORS and prove that singing and instruments means WORKS and all history knows that music to appease the "gods" is the olddest, most superstituious and always perverted occupation.

I can think of no better use of my retirement (in a 115 acre Paradise, just east of Hohenwald) than to do an EXORCISM on the preaching, giving and SANGING demon which lots of e-mail from all over the world thanks me for DEPROAGRAMMING THEN from. I assure you that if I saw a young woman being raped in the middle of the street I would rish my life. I see MOST people being musically DIVERTED to keep them AWAY from the life-giving Word which needs no professional MEDIATORS in Song or Sermon or perverted and perverting music.

Now, how about joining me on the STREET CORNER so YOUR first 65 years will not be WASTED.

It takes NO NERVOUS energy to fight VIPERS: why don't YOU take one of the 100% lies about music and ALL of God's word and read the whole chapter to see iffin they don't ALWAYS lie to sermonize and cultify.

Did YOU know from songs or sermons that the Monarchy was a CURSE permitted by God when they rose up in MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai and LOST ALL GRACE? Then, how can you say that people are humanoid when the LUST to restore people to a CURSE. Can YOU give a good reason why they do that? No one could BE that ignorant so what IS the motive?

If THEY can pop out about a hundred lies in a short sermon it will take LOTS of energy to READ the text and tell all of thsoe with EYES and EARS the truth: Jesus sent ME into all of the world to preach the gospel and I began in Hohenwald and ALL of the churches which quite miraculously decided that MUSIC is a direct command and anyway WE DON'T CARE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. Isn't that the SUPERNATURAL thingy John warned about when he called singers, musicans and ALL religious operatives SORCERERS and proof that the CANDLES have been removed.

Ken,

Per your quote:

"What they do NOT quote is the CONTEXT which proves that all of the AUTHORITY is in the context of older males PLUCKING the harp as a way to invite and seduce young men as "youth ministers" who already had their hair PLUCKED for the powerful binding of flesh and spirity together in sodomy: that which they tried and may have performed on Jesus."

Are you suggesting that Jesus was sodomized?

Shirley

The view of many early writers is that the REPROACHES Jesus would suffer was indeed sodomy and forced during the musical mocking better defined in the Dead Sea Scroll translation of Psalm 41 which prophesied that Judas would not triumph-over Jesus. The Judas Bag was always attached to a flute case and shown in many flute player vase paintings as drunk and nude. This was not a PURSE but a case for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments: the word blow the flute also translates steal your inheeritance, pollute and prostitute.

Paul outlawed the SELF-pleasing in romans 15 to enable the "synagogue" and warned about the reproaches prophesied by Jesus.

I cannot prove that but that has always been the end goal of the 'wineskin' religion of Dionysus: alluding to the Jews as 'children in the marketplace' forcing people to lament (ouch) and dance as initiation is well documented. Jesus refused otherwise He could have been the Jew's anticipated DIONYSUS as their Messiah(also well documented) and operating in the Temple as the Abomination of Desolation.

My statement had to do with ALL of the musical proponents PROOF TEXT to prove that the word PSALLO or MELODY in the NOT singing Passages DEMANDS instrumental "praise." That word was never used by any literate person until the year 1878 when the Disciples tried to justify their carpet bagging forced effort to introduce the organ in ALL of the churches AND sign all of the kiddies up as LIFE MEMEBERS.

ALL of the specific literature pointed too and documented by Tom Burgess has been ditto headed by ALL of the changelings as their authority to deliberately sow discord. However, just as ALL of the proof texts adduced by Rich Atchley on the Richland forum are not even quotations but RAW ASSERTIONS twist the context which proves that the temple worship was pagan ASTRIAL WORSHIP because that is what the Musical Idolatry of the trinity at Sinai and what Stephen etal say God TURNED THEM OVER TO. So, when you see MUSIC in the sacrificial system you see the worship identified by gods such as saturn whose Chaldee number is 666. I wouldn't expect you to learn that from sermonizing and versifying OR with a PhDuh in Bible.

Being a nosey type wondering how the DISCORDERS see all of that authority when ALL of it repudiates them, I have posted all of the Greek literature and included the CONTEXT which is ALWAYS prostitutes or Sodomites seducing a young boy for pederasty which has been the UNIVERSAL persona of all religious priesthoods. Philip chided Alexander the Great for PLUCKING the harp so well knowing that he had his eye on a certain boy. NOW why do you think that ALL of the PROOF texts people anxious to do the terminal sin of SOWING DISCORD point to Sodomites. That is why Jesus COMMANDED and Paul insisted that a Christian worship IN THE SPIRIT which is a PLACE opposed to a HOUSE or a MOUNTAIN. He said that was because, OUTSIDE there be DOGS and CONCISION: these were the Cynics whos style of singing was, like the wolf, to attract a mate. When you see males singing, clapping and body worshiping AND the paying audiience move in SYMPHONY you have the meaning of the male symposium.

If YOUR preacher is suggesting that INSTRUMENTS or Worship Teams are acceptable you can take it from me and ALL KNOWN HISTORY that he is deliberately lying about every musical term and name of instrument in the Bible and has a PROBLEM. If this is being pushed by the Worship Minister (a blasphemy) thenhe should read the Madison tread and all others because the MUSICIANS intend to set the elders and preachers down and turn the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE into a "theater for holy entertainment." You need to call the GENDER POLICE.

As for enginering: I have a BS in Electronics Engineering which I reeceived before there WAS A FIELD known as electronics. I designed, invented and supervised some very complex military thingies before I went commercial in the sonar and industrial control manufacturing. Yes, I can still change a light bulb. At that time if you held ONE BYTE of storage in your hand it would burn you up. Old people knew things from old and THEY BE NOT DEAD while the youngersters learn what they learn. I have made a speciality of the MUSIC AS WORSHIP HERESY and I have collected ALL of the important documents including clay tablets 2,000 years old when Moses was born and NO VIPER MUSICIAN will ever find a JOT or TITTLE which does not MARK them as Peterr says A CROOKED GENERATION and John called VIPERS and refused to baptize them. The bible clearly claims (if you believe people like Jesus) that Satan has always had HIS SEED and being smart he will always have them in UNLAWFUL PULPITS sucking in UNLAWFUL CONTRIBUTIONS to convert people to HIS realm: Yes, Lucifer was the "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden and the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17) USES speakers, singers, musicians, religious teknokrats and the MILSTONE speaksof prostitutes and John *Rev 18) says they are SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world.

That is why the HAVE to make raw assertions WITHOUT ever having read the chapter or the context to try to TRUMP all biblical and historical evidence against them. Why do they do that? Because they have conditioned you to believe that they are Godly men and YOU, paraphrasing Paul are those "fools who love to be fooled."

Will HE find faith when He returns? No, almost none. But fools can be seduced into CHURCH GROWTH when if they ever know the are hiding it: Jesus will be OUTSIDE suffering the reproaches of those INSIDE the mass meetings. He invites the twos and threes to "come REST and learn of me." The REST word means "stop the preaching, stop the singing, stop the singing." Why do you do it: Paul says that fools love to be fooled. The EKKLESIA or school of Christ through the Bible (as it has been taught) is so tiny that I am quite sure that you will NOT be able to find it on Sunday Morning.

THEY ARE ALL LIARS: not PROPHETS but PROFITS. Adulterers, says Peter, because the SELL LEARNING AT RETAIL, HAWK IT ALL ABOUT, PROSTITUE.

There is NO role of preacher other than expository.
There is no Law of Giving
There is NO law of singing.
When you get A holy spirit you will be able to read SPEAK and not translate MAKE MUSIC.

Good luck:if you FINANCE a false teacher you ARE a false teacher. He has NOT legitimate role eating at the widows table and because church is a Testesterone Free Zone no one will do a thing about it.

I don't bear a burden for those who hear it and ignore it: my task is to witness to a deaf church and don't look for any help from the "conservatives" they are hiding out of fear.

What kind of engineer? Choo-Choo train or the kind that makes blueprints?

I guess that doesn't really matter.

Merry Christmas to you--unless your CofC does not allow you to do that as it is not in the scriptures. I think it may be some sort of Roman/Pagan celebration.

Betty

Ha, no candlelight services either.. I'm guessing the scriptures are silent on the mix of candles and singing.
One good note.. a church down the road from West Houston (First Colony CofC) is doing an instrumental service this year. I'm sure this will stir up some issue-driven folks.

No, not silent: Jesus CAST OUT the Musical Minstrels like DUNG and declared Himself the LIGHT OF THE WORLD. Sorry, you missed that during Sermonizing and Versifying: both the MARKS of the Mother Goddess.

I rejoice when I see those LIGHTING UP CANDLES: what else can you do when music is the MARKER of SORCERERS and of Jesus removing HIS Canldesticks all of which give KNOWLEDGE (John in Revelation 17 defines the Mother of Harlots and John 18 proves the lusting after FRUITS where fruits have always been fruits even of the the musicators in Amos. MOST of what is done as "Ceremonial Legalism" is a thinly-disguised Satan worship hiding under the name of CHRIST who died to OUTLAW everything you HIRED A HAND to lead you into last Sunday.

Zimrah (h2172) zim-raw'; from 2167; a musical piece or song to be accompanied by an instrument: - melody, psalm.
Zimrah (h2173) zim-raw'; from 2167; pruned (i. e. choice) fruit: - best fruit.

THUS hath the Lord God shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit. Amos 8:1

And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more. Amos 8:2

A basket:

Keluwb (h3619) kel-oob'; from the same as 3611; a bird-trap (as furnished with a clap-stick or treadle to spring it); hence a basket (as resembling a wicker cage): - basket, cage.

As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. Je.5:27

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

Jesus commanded and Paul defined worship in the PLACE of a holy spirit because OUTSIDE there be DOGS and CONCISION. These were the CYNICS whose "singing" style attracted those of LIKE PRECIOUS FAITH. That is what is going on when the singy-clappy PERFORMS and the women and a FEW choice males begin a SYMPHONY: moving together. Sure, Carol Wimber and all paganism says that is producing a "sexual like climactic experience with the spirits." The Egyptians were less touchy they called it a visual and oral ORGASM with the gods: also literal for a price. There is no law against BELLY DANCERS so I would get some of those on the STAFF INFECTION to produce UNITY among the sister-hoods.

Repeating what they did to Jesus as they REPROACHED him in the Prophecy where oppression is SINGING. Psalm 41 defines the TRIUMPH (often not pretty) by Judas which means "singing and playing loud instruments" to drive him into estrus.
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly [multitude, swarm] of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16

Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Is.56:11

And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy. Je.15:3

Now, ALL that you see, smell, hear of feel INTEND to "take away the key to knowledge." That is what Jesus said that "doctors of the Law DO." That is their JOB and your job is to feed the "lazy asses" so that they don't have to become "ploughing oxen." (John
Calvin. That is why the CROOKED GENRATION (Skolion singers) were PREDESTINATED to do. I have been saved FROM that generation of Vipers and don't worry too much about heaven just yet.

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Seems there WON'T be any AUDITION for the singers, clappers, players (bad word) who do their ballet in the HOLY PLACES claiming that they ARE God by claiming to lead you into the PRESENCE of God. That was why all musical religionism was homosexual because sodomy "bound the body and spirit together."

That is why those having been feminized--along with almost ALL religionism which Jesus came to destroy--will do anything their little bodies can do as TRICKS to keep you from seeing the ONLY LIGHT. Jesus PUT OUT the lighting of lamps rituals which came from BABYLON along with the false passover and many other things: but the musicators CANNOT afford to let you become Bible and history literate. Like my dog, they got a good things and YOU are fools enough to feed them when early churches or even pagan communities would have "myrred and cottoned them" which is something like "tar and feather." I suggest that the once-males in the churches have a relationship with preacherlings thicker than the blood of Jesus: Navigators survey and all priesthoods prove it.

Most of us who still read the "olden" Bible--the band of merry men claim got obsoleted by their postmodern theology -- (which began as a college prank) where when you move at the speed of LIGHT you cannot measure the location of a sub-atomic particle without changing its speed. Therefore, one of Einstein's big laughs was when philosophers (Shelly etal) decided that you cannot know ANYTHING about the Bible. However, they say, 'IF you pay me then I can locate the NEW PATTERNISM to fit our CHANGED culture.' I always laugh and cry and scream: "Don't that culture THINGY always change." Only in these end times has that given EMPLOYMENT for men who love to sing, clap, hold hands in the dark and then light them candles." All of the Bible and especially Revelation gives a detailed PATTERNISM of the Mother of Harlot's "Circe" where John identified the speakers, singers and musicians as SORCERERS who deceived THE WHOLE WORLD. The very next verse shows that when they are silenced the CANDLES will have been removed. Lighting up candles is a MARK.



The seven-branched candlestick, often called a "menorah," is used by Christians to represent the Holy Spirit and its seven gifts: wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, fear of the Lord, and delight in the Lord. Any singer or musician who came into the Holy Place--typical of the Church of Christ--would be executed just like Nadab and Abihu for coming as far as the Incense Altar.

Those not have reached the SPEED OF LIGHT from watching brother singers do their "body worship" will note that these are NOT seven little fellas small enough to fit into you. Why, they even RESTED UPON Jesus symbolized by a DOVE and Jesus was identified as a SON of a FATHER which repudiated the Mother Goddess (Zoe, etal) whose Logos is a DAUGHTER. But, ALL of the spoken and acted parables were to fool the fools nevertheless bright enough to sell altered Bible to fleece the Widows throught the UNLAWFUL "law of giving." Peter called them adulterers or CORRUPTERS of the word who, with their 7 candle-power are nevertheless bright enough to SELL LEARNING AT RETAIL.

Now, the hireling-changelings with NO FUNDING and therefore PHARISEES, Scribes and Hypocrites (speakers, singers, musicians, actors) are MARKS: when God pours out His Wrath, he sends you jesters, buffoons and actors. As long as they are smarter than their ENABLERS they have permission to SOW DISCORD. Not to worry, from the Bible they were NOT really ekklesia or synagogues or schools of the Bible.

In Pagan processions: "these were usually followed by the principal YOUTH of the place, in white linen vestments or surplices, singing hymns in honour of the gods whose festivals they were celebrating, accompanied by crowds of all sorts that were initiated in the same religion, all with flambeaux or wax-candles in their hands."

Lactantius who defines TRUE worship as in the human SPIRIT also noted:

Now, so thoroughly and exclusively PAGAN was this custom of lighting up lamps and CANDLES in daylight, that we find Christian writers, such as Lactantius, in the fourth century, exposing the absurdity of the practice,
and deriding the Romans "for lighting up candles to God,
as if He lived in the dark."

For, as we showed in the second book. the soul is concerned with heaven, the body with the earth. They who neglect the goods of the soul, and seek those of the body, are engaged with darkness and death, which belong to the earth and to the body, because life and light are from heaven; and they who are without this, by serving the body, are far removed from the understanding of divine things. The same blindness everywhere oppresses the wretched men; for as they know not who is the true God, so they know not what constitutes true worship.

While engaging in church MEANING Circe the Mother of Harlots they CLAIM that it is just foreplay: to attract the moths fatally attracted to candles. However, ANYTHING you do beyond that which Paul clearly defined as SYNAGOGUE to attract or to affect changes in the minds of people is defined as SORCERY: and doing SORCERY is beyond redemption and that is why the MENORAH has been picked up by Jesus in His ONE AND ONLY meeting with you.

The Catholic Encyclopedia CONFIRMS it: they BOAST about being PAGAN and YOU just lap it up. That is why if you use singers and musicians you are UNDER the Mother of Harlots and the "ecumenical movement" intends to ADD instruments so that we can QUALIFY. The candles are also the MARKS. Rick Atchley plans to CURE the division which the instrumentalists caused by ADDING instruments and USING as proof text Greek literature which MARKS perverted males plucking the harp to seduce the young boys, by ADDING instruments and SOWING discord among those who PAY HIS BILLS.
"Candles, Catholic Encyclopedia; CONFESSION time by the Catholics who NEVER stooped to singing AND playing the organ as "congregational worship."

The word candle (candela, from candeo, to burn) was introduced into the English language as an ecclesiastical term, probably as early as the eighth century. It was known in classical times and denoted any kind of taper in which a wick, not uncommonly made of a strip of papyrus, was encased in wax or animal fat.

We need not shrink from admitting that CANDLES, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and in the rites paid to the DEAD. [Defined by Amos and Isaiah]

But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendour of religious ceremonial.Jesus DIED to remove that

We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like MUSIC, LIGHTS, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments, etc. were not identified with any idolatrous cult in particular; they were COMMON TO ALMOST ALL CULTS.

Hislop notes: and remember that BECAUSE of Musical Idolatry at Mount Sinai God "turned tem over to worship the heavenly host" (Acts 7 in the "obsolete" Bible etc., etc.). It is certain that false teachers and musicians ARE predestinated fallen stars:

Astêr , ho, gen. EROS: Seirios a. Hes.Op.417 ; a. Arktouros the chief star in the constellation, ib.565, etc.; shooting star or meteor, 2. flame, light, fire, II. metaph. of illustrious persons, etc., phanerôtaton aster' Athênas E.Hipp.1122 (lyr.); Mousaôn astera kai Charitôn

Mousaôn astera kai Charitôn

Chara or Grace was a prostitute goddess: the Muses were the prostitute "musicians" and other "liberal arts" operatives working for pagan religions. They are the "musicians" in Revelation 18:22 and John connects them to the Harlot Religion and calls them sorcerers. "Prophesiers" were singers and musicians.

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Plato Protagoras [347c] But if he does not mind, let us talk no more of poems and verses, but consider the points on which I questioned you at first, Protagoras, and on which I should be glad to reach, with your help, a conclusion. For it seems to me that arguing about poetry is comparable to the wine-parties of common market-folk. These people, owing to their inability to carry on a familiar conversation over their wine by means of their own voices and discussions [347d] such is their lack of education--put a premium on flute-girls by hiring the extraneous voice of the flute at a high price, and carry on their intercourse by means of its utterance

One of them was SATURN whose Chaldee number is 666. Saturn is also the mark of the Sabazianism or Astriel Deity which supplied the GODS for the Temple worship.
If Saturn [666], or Kronos, was, as we have seen reason to believe, Phoroneus, "The emancipator," the "temporary emancipation" of the slaves at his festival was exactly in keeping with his supposed character. (Sabbath)

This was precisely the way in which, according to Berosus, the drunken festival of the month Thebeth, answering to our December, in other words, the festival of Bacchus, was celebrated in Babylon.

"It was the custom," says he, "during the five days it lasted, for masters to be in subjection to their servants, and one of them ruled the house, clothed in a purple garment like a king."
This "purple-robed" servant was called "Zoganes," the "Man of SPORT and wantonness," and answered exactly to the "Lord of Misrule," that in the dark ages, was chosen in all Popish countries to head the revels of Christmas. The wassailling bowl of Christmas had its precise counterpart in the

"Drunken festival" of Babylon; and many of the other observances still kept up among ourselves at Christmas came from the very same quarter.
The candles, in some parts of England, lighted on Christmas-eve, and used so long as the festive season lasts, were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honour to him: for it was one of the distinguishing peculiarities [MARKS] of his worship to have lighted wax-candles on his altars.

That is why the Levitical Warrior Musicians and the clergy tried to INITIATE Jesus Christ by PIPING to force him to sing and dance the Dionysus shuffle. If He would "bow to Baal" THEY would initiate him and THEY would not MURDER Him. Jesus refused to bow and proved that He was NOT the New Wineskin god they HOPED would be MESSIAH. NOW, they are repeating the PATTERNISM because THEY claim that if they can make the kingdom GROW AND DEVELOP it will make it POSSIBLE for Jesus to have his second advent--without FAILING this time. It all fits the Biblical PATTERNISM and the fools PAY them to make them into a laughingstock. Be assured that neither the Christian churches or churches of Christ have anything but contempt for preachers who would BETRAY their employers. Nevertheless, the "christian" church has done a masterful job of USING them as dupes.

Alexander Hislop associates the candles with the worship of Nimrod at the Tower of Babel and of devil worship.

http://www.piney.com/His55.html

See Arnobius Plea for the Christians

http://www.piney.com/FatAthenPleaChr.html

That there was some occult "Mystery," as is here declared, couched under the "wax-candles," in the original system of idolatry, from which Rome derived its ritual, may be well believed, when it is observed with what unanimity nations the most remote have agreed to use wax-candles in their sacred rites. Among the Tungusians, near the Lake Baikal in Siberia, "wax-tapers are placed before the Burchans" the gods or idols of that country.
In the Molucca Islands, wax-tapers are used in the worship of Nito, or Devil, whom these islanders adore. "Twenty or thirty persons having assembled," says Hurd,

"they summon the Nito,
by beating a small consecrated drum,

whilst two or more of the company light up wax-tapers,
and pronounce several mysterious words,
which they consider as able to conjure him up."

In the worship of Ceylon, the use of wax-candles is an indispensable requisite. "In Ceylon," says the same author, "some devotees, who are not priests, erect chapels for themselves, but in each of them they are obliged to have an image of Buddha, and light up tapers or wax-candles before it, and adorn it with flowers." A practice thus so general must have come from some primeval source, and must have originally had some mystic reason at the bottom of it.

The wax-candle was, in fact, a hieroglyphic, like so many other things which we have already seen,and was intended to exhibit the Babylonian god in one of the essential characters of the Great Mediator.
That means that it is a MARK of the Beast of Babylon coming to a church near you.

The classic reader may remember that one of the gods of primeval antiquity was called Ouranos, * that is, "The Enlightener." (Lucifer who came equipped with pipes and tabrets) * For Aor or our, "light," and an, "to act upon" or produce, the same as our English particle en, "to make." Ouranos, then, is "The Enlightener." This Ouranos is, by Sanchuniathon, the Phoenician, called the son of Elioun--i.e., as he himself, or Philo-Byblius, interprets the name, "The Most High." (SANCH) Ouranos, in the physical sense, is "The Shiner"; and by Hesychius it is made equivalent to Kronos, which also has the same meaning, for Krn, the verb from which it comes, signifies either "to put forth horns," or "to send forth rays of light"; and, therefore, while the epithet Kronos, or "The Horned One," had primarily reference to the physical power of Nimrod as a "mighty" king; when that king was deified, and made "Lord of Heaven," that name, Kronos, was still applied to him in his new character as "The Shiner or Lightgiver."

The BEAST in Revelation is defined as PAN the perverted goat-man and you DO know that the gragedy songs are GOAT SONGS and are named after CAPELLA the STAR. That is why a capella never meant congregational singing but identified the perverted singers the Pope brought with him from France to PERFORM in the Sistine chapel because it was UNLAWFUL for the Pope's Mass (the true national worship) us use instruments. The HORNS are defined as MUSICAL HORNS after the pan pipe. Each gives the little "pimple on the plains to MOUNT UP and become a mountain kingdom" and thus Armageddon: a Polemic war of words.

If the MINORITY are right then you had better listen because Jesus invited the TWOS AND THREES to REST and "come learn of me." If you are being sucked into mass movements and YOU connect MUSIC to spiritual WORSHIP then The Book of Enoch says that you have FALLEN and will never get up because "the light of the Word was not in you" and you do not have the testesterone to make it in the SPIRIT dimension RIGHT HEAR AMONG US says Paul.

Don't expect the CONSERVATIVES to be my friend either: they are just now mounting an attack on MUSIC using the Gopher Wood weapon of choice and STILL think that Amos was just condemning a BAD MENTAL ATTITUDE and that God COMMANDED musical worship under the Law but CHANGED His mind.

NONE of them will tell you the truth: I just have and I never pass the unlawful collection plate.

So basically burning candles in church means worshipping Satan. Wow. You issue-driven anti-progressives can have Ken, I don't want any of that.

I have been reading this blog for a while now, there are some scary things happening at other COC's in the Houston area. Tomball has either split or fallen apart, I have heard rumblings (nothing substantiated)of changes (instrumental service on saturday)at First Colony in southwest Houston, and now our Youth Minister has taken a sabatical and will not return.

The Worship Minister is new, our preacher will be a "Dr." as soon as he defends his thesis at ACU, I am afraid we are going to need to be VIGILANT,OBSERVANT, and STUDY STUDY STUDY ( we should be these things ALL of the time)

Betty- I love your sense of humor!

Ken,

Do you worship at a Church of Christ?

Betty

No, Betty, my health kinda broke about 1997 when I suddenly realized that the money being fleeced for classrooms and extras expanded into a GYMNASIUM: you know the kind they built as part of the Abomination of Desolation. The gym was for the YOUTH but the youth and their families repudiated the leadership because they saw the drift and left: Gym, youth minister NO YOUTH. The Purpose Driven Cult (one trained at ACU) sees the loss of half of the "owners" as suitable losses ONCE they get the new building built and then SUDDENLY Out the agenda which was NOT similar ot the church of Christ over 100 years old. Like Madison the got caught before they could leave with the loot.

I left in 1997 and got my site on the air full force in 1998 and went through some near misses with my health: partly brought on by the stresses of the OLD conservative group which fell into the PRAZE SANGANG which drove lots away.

Several years later after a leap from about 340 to less than 200 the people began grilling the elders: they had imported a ACU type who did not believe baptism was required, had no problems with instrumental music and that was the big HIDDEN AGENDA of the elders. Lots of letters were written by life-time members and the basic response was that they had to be open to the church of God "in order to save more souls." All of the UNIFYING is at the expense of the owners. One elder said he didn't care what the Bible said. Anyway, with the antics gagging the whole community the other churches tried ot meet with the 'town' elders but they allowed that they couldn't be "questioned" by the rural elders and preachers.

All of this happened (as I suspicioned in 1997) without me knowing about it until I was asked to post some of the letters and the elders WHITE PAPER filled with black lies. No one can get their authority for Musical Worship Teams (a legal end run around the LAW) or instruments withot MARKING themselves ignorant of the nature of the EKKLESIA Jesus died to LIFT THEM OFF OUR BACKS. The word REST as used in the Greek literatre is almost a dedicated word meaning "stop the speaking, stop the singing, stop the music" which really meant STOP THE PANIC.

Nor, can any preacher, elder or Phd in Bible, Theology or Greek claim a JOT OR TITTLE of authority from the "music" passages without lying about each and every one. They may NOT be criminals needing to do some hard time on a rock pile: I am quite certain that because most have rejected the Bible as "shot away" by our postmodern CULTURE (sermonizing and versifying proves it), they have once TASTED the Word and rejected it. Hebrews 6 makes that an unforgivable sin. Paul also promises them STRONG DELUSIONS that they believe their own lie and be damned. Beyond my understanding, God has no grace for the BLIND who can be led astray by the Blind. I think that means that they were NEVER a Disciple however many times they were baptized. Because they refused to DISCIPLE to Christ without a preacher or singer MEDIATOR they have starved to death for loss of the Word and they are led into Captivity. Both Amos 5-9 and Isaiah 5 proves that "singing and instruments in the religious" meetings destroyed their Spirit. In Isaiah 5 when God sings HIS SONG you had better watch out because HE is breaking down the walls to His "vineyard" and letting the BEAST PEOPLE in to eat up your inheritance.

With my two sites I worship all day and into the night because Jesus never promised to be with and teach more than the twos and threes who COME OUTSIDE the groups and suffer reproach with Him. I don't intend to ever subject myself to the otrage of SERMONS picked that day from a stack of sermon outlines: you can listen 60 years and still know nothing. I don't expect to expose my nerves to the SANGING from "Hollywood, Dollywood and the Grand Ole Opera" and--musicologist insist--from Voodoo. It violates the COMMAND to SPEAK one to another. It violated the direct command to use "that which is written." It violates the command not to SELF PLEASE which is to arouse mental excitement (Rom 15) which LADED BURDEN Jesus died free us. I don't ever expect to plunk my once-significant TAX in the collection plate because THERE IS NO LAW OF GIVING and the only Biblical example and early church proof is to give to the POOR which word means DESTITUTE as in "street people." It violates the pattern of the EKKLESIA used by Jesus and spoken by Paul in Hebrews to ASSemble yourselves and when you DISSassemble yourself the INSTITUE goes out like a candle snuffed out. The staff was the elected for the year CONTACT MAN and people had the lIBERTY to go about their own lives.

Paul's ONLY worship words mean to GIVE HEED or "give attendance to the public reading of the word, to exhorting the keeping of that read portion and defining any doctrinal content." Paul never PREACHED until midnight but he DIALOGED or COMMUNED: that which you do in a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. That was the teaching of the Campbells. So just WHERE in or religionism or christianism USA would one possibly find an EKKLESIA: I know of not one. Orthodox come the closest.

I want someone to PROVE that these TROUBLING preachers and elders have any hope of salvation or that one of them grasps the meaning of EKKLESIA as SYNAGOGUE as SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE which their group does everything in their powers to PREVENT.

I know the Richland stuff is RAW DATA but anyone desiring PROTECTION from the WOLVES had better get literate because the SUDDEN surge of INFILTRATING and DIVERTING seems to me the fulfilfllment of the Lying Wonders Apollyon and His Muses (Locusts) are supposed to bring on us. Why would John define THEM perfectly unless he was inspired? John says that they are agents of the Mother of Harlots and are therefore SORCERERS. How can anyone TRUMP the connection with these PERFORMERS with SORCERERS? That is why Revelation speaks of measuring the 'TEMPLE' and counting the worshipers: that means FEW WILL BE SAVED so COME OUT OF BABYLON.

Ken,

It would be okay to meet with a couple/three people and discuss/read/meditate about the scriptures and call that a worship/church service. That would be a change from the typical CofC service that contains the following:

Welcome
Song
Song
Scripture Reading
Prayer
Song
Sermon
Song of Invitation
Lord's Supper/Communion/Eucharist
Offering
Song
Prayer
Luby's Cafeteria


Betty Butterfield

You forgot to put the song numbers, those are very important. Unless.. the church is using powerpoint, which for some reason is a double standard, since PowerPoint isn't mentioned in scripture but are being used! One of many inconsistencies I love about the CofC. Wake up people!

J.J. I just used my infallible ISP locator: I typed yours in and it said:

"We don't have a clue." I love it.

J.J. In the Approved examples, direct commands, NECESSARY inferences and historic affirmation, most of us have our own song books and they differ. Therefore, in the One True Church--probably NOT yet in your town--we don't use PAGE NUMBERS but Book, Chapter and Verse.

You remember before snapse-removal-101aaa we heard Jesus stand up to READ and then decently sit down: they said "we sing the hallel the way a schoolboy recites the Hallel." And Paul said use "that which is written" or "Scripture" in Romans 15. Spirit or Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs (all inspired) in Ephesians 5. And The WORD OF CHRIST or Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs--all the inspired text in Galatians. Jesus closed the loop so that only wolves can get out by saying MY WORD is SPIRIT and LIFE. Paul writes the SAME PARALLEL many more times without using the word SINGING or MELODY because those are WORKS-RELATED meaning LEGALISM when done TO your body. How did you miss what those early, ignorant people knew for about 400 years and what Calvin RESTORED and Campbell DEstored because he had so song book to sell.

You have to be CAREFULLY TAUGHT by colleges STEALING YOUR INHERITANCE to have missed that universal truth which lasted until hirelings came out of the "sumps of prelatal pride." That was about the time that Whitefield MARRIED theater and witchcraft together and called it religion. Stone repeated that in BOURBON county, KY.

Powerpoint was a good CRAFT until the musicators discovered that they could give away the song books so the oldsters cannot read the words and the PERFORMERS (Jesus called them Hypocrites) can invent their own effeminate "praise ditties" and TAX you for "sex, lies and video tapes."

Is silence golden?