Quail Springs Church of Christ in Oklahoma CityJune 22 2007 at 9:45 AM
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Hello, my name is ______ I am a member of Quail Springs Church of Christ in Oklahoma City. I have been reading through the extensive information provided on your website and find it very interesting. In particular, the changes that are occuring at our church in light of our minister and eldership announcing that we would be adding a instrumental worship service earlier this year. Since that time, we have signinficant discord in our church. Things that are happening here seem to mirror what happened at Richland Hills. I was wondering what the final result what at Richland Hills because, frankly, I am concerned about the future of our church. Thanks in advance - Member
Dear member, because Mark Henderson is your "leader" it comes as no surprise. He has been part of a small band of men whose relationship is closer than the blood of Jesus Christ. I have not had time to reveiw the RATIONALE but they are usinr Rick Atchley's three sermons as proof: not uncommon for this band to depend on one another and not the Lord.
I have reviewed Ricks sermons and his FODDER is hand fed from the NACC which has actively sought to RESTORE what Mark calls the ANTI-instrumental church of christ.
He deliberately lied about every Biblical statement and historical comment. The new MANTRA is that God actually COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC
so the EXTRA service is just a slick willy to run off the OWNERS and go fully instrumental like Max Lucado.
You have the duty to warn people tht your "shepherd" is really a WOLF as Paul warned in Acts 20 and the meaning of WOLF as related to MUSICAL worship is NOT very pretty.
I will fill in on some of the deliberatel lies which Mark has preached before God and man and point you to the NACC people who have provided the DOCUMENTARY proof which they are using to STEAL peaceable churches of Christ. You might begin with David Faust who has undoubtedly been there seeking UNITY like a WOLF seeks union with a lamb. You can begin here to see that the Temple like the law was a CURSE because of their fall into Musical Idolatry at Mount Sinai. The loud NOISE at the temple dedication MARKED god SHUTTING OFF access to Himself, the Word and the MERCY Seat. They were fully abandoned to the GENTILE or Babylonianism they LUSTED FOR.
Keep us informed: the property belongs to the MEMBERS and not to MARK HENDERSOON who is repeating the 100% lies of his bonded buddies and the ELDERS are NOT in charge.
Re: Quail Springs Church of Christ in Oklahoma City
|June 27 2007, 1:34 PM |
Contrary to their boasting, the only Churches of Christ which have been seduced by the NACC and their dupes have been those of the dupes themselves: self-deception is when you believe your own lies so strongly that you will betray a flock of lambs into the hands of WOLVES as Paul warned: Wolves and dogs are the MARKS of the CYNICS who used the howling style of "new tyle praise singing" from old style Babylon.
Secondly, most have follwed the Purpose Driven Cult and gotten the church into lots of debt which they are SUPPOSED to have taken care of before they OUT their hidden agenda.
Mark Henderson: The instrumental music issue is just one piece of a larger picture that has been coming together for leadership over the past several months. As we faced the reality of a gradually declining membership and sharply declining conversion statistics, our response was to say, The status quo is unacceptable. We dont know exactly what the future holds, but we do know that we will not keep doing what we have been doing and just hope for different results. Monte Stephens got his vision that we called Tearing Down Walls or Removing Barriers, and we started looking seriously at the things we do that create barriers between each other and that present barriers to people who are disconnected from church and from God.
We know that Monte got this from the MANTRA of Promise Keepers and most churches will have an AGENT of promise keepers steering the shift. The big lie is that by NOT USING INSTRUMENTS we are the SECTARIANS and are errecting BARRIERS so that people will not come to OUR venue.
In the Q&A session this began about showing "musical videos." Mark could not get any elder's help and DID his own research which came from the NACC writers all of whom we have reviewed and ALL use the same mantra and NONE of them have ever read the context or story line of the LIFTED LIES they use to deceive. We have told you also that ALL of the proof-texts about PSALLO are lies and that ALL of them speak of perverted males plucking the harp to seduce a "youth minister of the goddess."
When you begin innovating or improvising you prove to people that you have no eternal Biblical worth teaching. That is why when FAILURE results people "crack away" and fall back to the archaic superstitions: for instance the Peyote Cult on the frontier after the destruction native worship. Praise singing was always to appease or even threaten the "gods."
Of Ceremonial objects: On occasion, objects have been used to compel the sacred (or divine) realm to act or react in a way that is favourable to the participants of the ceremonies or to the persons or activities with which such rituals are concerned, or to prevent the transcendent realm from harming or endangering them.
These objects thus can be MEDIATORY devices to contact the divine world,
as, for example, the drums of shamans (religious personages with healing and psychic-transformation powers).
Conversely, they can be mediatory devices used by a god or other supernatural being to relate to man in the profane realm.
They may also be used to ensure that a CHIEFor sovereign of a tribe or nation achieves,
and is recognized to have, the status of divinity in cultic or community ceremonies.
Of such a nature may be phallic cults.
Because Paul's unique word means to GIVE HEED to God through HIS Words "as written" and it is impossible to GIVE ATTENTION to the musical performers (Jesus called hypocrites) there is NO INTENTION of doing anything but give attention to the TRIBAL LEADER using the musicians as SORCERERS (Rev 18).
The FOUNDATION of the "musical worship team" which Mark has used to gradually CONDITION you not to jump when you are attacked, was articulated by Rubel Shelly as able to "help LEAD you into the presence of God."
That means that they are standing in the holy place (of church architecture) CLAIMING to be God by claiming to be THE MEDIATOR between you (mortal) and God. That is blasphemy and unforgiveable.
H. Bamford Parks in Of Gods and Men noting that the "laded burden" Jesus died to remove was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ceremonial." This anxiety can be like a drug high and therefore desirable but not productive
"The development both of religion and of the arts can be traced back in a continuous line to the hunting era. The group ritual of the primeval tribesmen were the origin not only of all religious ceremonial, but also of the drama and of poetry and music, while magic gave birth to the visual arts." (Parkes, Henry Bamford, On Gods and Men, p. 30).
When people remove CHRIST and INFILTRATE "Community" or "Family" you can read Rubel Shelly and John York to "deny that individuals have the right to read, interpret or speak the Word outside of the COMMUNITY interpretation." That means that Mark as your HIRELING has become MASTER and had decided what YOU will do as heresy--and PAY HIM TOO.
That is why words like musica, magica, cantus and exegetice
are all defined as magical devices to control the "gods" or to extract more money out of the superstitious. Paul warned that women not raise ARMS but men raise PALMS to prevent the outbreak of WRATH meanign ORGE. While this musical ORGY is an outburst AT God and is really CURSING HIM for your own failures, the event is called "prophesying" and is a way to RELIEVE the wrath AGAINST the "senior pastor."
"Awed by the mysteries of his own spirit no less than by those of nature, primitive man was likely to attribute to divine influence any abnormal emotional state, whether above or below the usual level. Medicine men customarily went into states of trance in which they were believed to be in communication with the gods, [Singers and musicians as sorcerers Rev 18]Part Two to review Mark Henderson's heresy.
and many tribes supposed lunatics and SEXUAL DEVIANTS to be divinely possessed.
"When tribes grew too large for effective co-operation (and inbred), they often became subdivided into smaller kinship groups (clans, sibs, gentes) which continued to regard each other as close allies. Government was exercised by individual chieftains assisted by councils of elders" (p. 26).
"In this fashion evey common tribal interest--the recurrence of the seasons, the increase of the food supply, successful hunting--was likely to become embodied in some regularly repeated ceremony, which usually included group dancing, singing, and feasting.
Besides enabling men to express, and thereby to allay, ANGER and ANXIETY, such ceremonies also promoted tribal UNITY and strengthened the loyalty of the individual to TRIBAL TRADITION,
for the emotional excitement they aroused had the effect of breaking down the barriers between individuals and thus fusing all tribesmen into a collective whole. Meanwhile, whole systems of magical devices were gradually elaborated." (Parkes, p. 29)
Mark twists Everett Ferguson to have Jesus say that instruments in worship were not an issue. We have looked at the word PLAY which was the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai which marked Israel's fall from Grace. Jesus consigned the Musical Minstrels to the DUNG HEAP and identified the SECTARIAN JEWS as Children (PLAYING) and consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace along with the sellers of young boys and radishes.
Consistent with this, in part three we will prove that MARK will never find an exception to the rule that religious MUSICIANS marks prostitutes or sodomites. That is why Paul made worship in the PLACE of the human spirit because the DOGS were outside: these were CYNICS identified by the wailing form of singing you can hear in any church perverted with a musical worship team.
NARNIA? Will Lucifer (Zoe) Triumph over LOGOS?
|June 29 2007, 1:10 PM |
When the Madison Church of Christ began infiltrating and diverting a
peaceable church into a theater for holy entertainment, they called
their children's classes CANAAN LAND. They regularly sang their
children off to Canaan land.
Of course we all know that when Israel rose up to PLAY in musical
idolatry which always leads to sexual stimulation, God turned them over
to worship the starry hosts in Canaan. Canaan was turned from the
PROMISED LAND into the KILLING FIELDS until Israel and Judah could be
dispersed and killed.
Quail Springs has concocked a program called NARNIA. Of course,
we also know that this is the FULFILLMENT of the failed LUCIFER
triumphing over LOGOS or the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Max Lucado in Cosmic Christmas
holds out hope for Lucifer and Rubel Shelly''s baptising
Santa promotes the change from thinking of the S.O.N. God into thinking
of the S.U.N. God who is Apollo or Apollyon and the Muses (Sorcerers)
Why would a church FOCUS on diverting the minds of the children AWAY
from Jesus Christ toward ANYTHING which will fill their minds: this is
the meaning of the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE.
See the story of how MYTH is often used to identify this Lion of the Tribe of Judah as SATAN.
Quail Springs! Shooting the Doves?
|February 4 2008, 11:02 AM |
See more on the Madison Thread:
When the decision to add instruments to their worship was made, Henderson reveals that a full third of their congregation felt obliged to leave and worship elsewhere. So in their desire to be relevant and appealing to sinners, they drove away 350 of God's children. Such is the story in virtually every church where change agents have gained control and imposed their unscriptural agenda. The change agents' call for unity rings hollow when we see them sowing discord and causing division on every hand. We remind them that God hates him that soweth discord among brethren (Prov. 6:16-19).
The LOSS OF MEMBERS is often the reason giving form adding musical instruments (machines for doing hard work). However, it might be better to look to the leadership and the preacher especially if he is either terminally ignorant or terminally evil. Mark has been one of the "merry band of men" making unity under the oversight of the NACC people who have lied about every musical passage in the Bible and recorded history.
The fact is that the purpose driven cult MAKES ALLOWANCE for losing a large part of their congregation whiich they lust to replace with the singy-clappy gender confused breed.
Mark has simply repeated the SHEET handed to Max lucado, Rick Atchley, Terry Rush and others: I am quite certain that they have never read either the context or the story line.
While this is heavy RAW MEAT which implicates music as the MARK of a gender confused leadership at best and a Satanic fulfilment of Revelation 17 - 18 at its worst.
Quail Springs Church of Christ
Mark Henderson, Quail Springs Church of Christ
Mark Henderson Instrumental Music in the New Testament
The remaining problem is that MOST of the non-instrumental preachers do not know or have much interest beyond "the law of singing" and the "gopher wood" patter (which is valid). They will spew you out if you try to explain that when Amos spoke of a man and his son going in to the same temple prostitute and using musical instruments was NOT just a "bad mental attitude." None of the once-Christian colleges are compent to teach the Bible. So blame the "conservatives" for leaving the congregation so naked that only 350 flee for their lives. In recorded history anyone who came into a community wanting to sing and play and be paid was in effect "tarred and feathered." Too bad there is no manliness left .
As noted, any church which has allowed the very effeminate notion of a "musical worship team" to lead you into the presence of God is subconsiously or UNconsioulsy "boiling the frog" and repeating what all pagan music meant: to lead you into a sexual like climax with the "gods." So says Carol Wimber of the Vineyard aka New Wineskins.
Is there NO honor or minimal common decency that men would set out intentiionally to "steal the church houses of widows?"
Sex, Sex, Sex
|February 24 2008, 5:08 AM |
It's been a very, very long time since I've posted here, but, after coming back to this site and seeing these comments, I just couldn't remain silent.
Why do you continually bring sex into your discussions about contemporary worship? If people are sexually stimulated by instruments in worship, then their hearts are not in the right place. Maybe that's your problem. Just maybe you couldn't worship with instrumental music because it would "turn you on". I don't believe this is a problem for most spiritually minded Christians. Brother, why don't you search your own heart rather than assuming that others are controlled by their flesh?
This whole forum is really sad. What's even more sad is that having this on the web for the whole world to see is bringing reproach on the church and "sowing discord among brethren". Each congregation of the Church of Christ is supposed to be autonomous, but the idea of autonomy in the Churches of Christ is a big joke. The Churches of Christ have less autonomy than congregations in the Southern Baptist Convention and many other denominations. And, it's forums like this, CFTF, and other watchdog media that destroys the possibility of autonomy.
You guys are DOING IT in the Holy Place: a death sentence under the Law
|February 25 2008, 10:57 AM |
Stan Cook Why do you continually bring sex into your discussions about contemporary worship? If people are sexually stimulated by instruments in worship, then their hearts are not in the right place.
The authority Paul outlawed is AUTHENTIA which was the erotic and murderous authority of the Mad Women of Corinth and most churches "just out of paganism." It is IMPOSSIBLE for males to sing and do their thingies without attracting SOME males and many women. They just make males puke. It is not possible to let a woman "preside over" or "do discourse" as long as she uses a "tune" without forcing MOST males to pay attention (worship) her instead of God whose WORDS they are commanded to speak one to another. Why do you want to put stumbling blocks in front of people? Romans 14 speaks of foods which identify all of the practices in the marketplace. In Romans 15 he outlaws SELF pleasuring which RADICALLY OUTLAWS all of the performing or hypocritic arts. Give consideration for the WEAK says Paul or you commit an unforgiveable sin with a HIGH HAND.
Furthermore, the Spirit OF Christ ordained the Qahal or synagogue or church in the wilderness as "a school of the bible" and EXCLUDED both vocal and instrumental rejoicing. What Simple Simon wants to play like children when Jesus comes to be our teacher when the "senior males--unlikely to get worshipped" teaches that which HAS been taught.
Stan Cook This whole forum is really sad. What's even more sad is that having this on the web for the whole world to see is bringing reproach on the church and "sowing discord among brethren".
This is flat out dishonest: those who IMPOSE musical performance KNOW that they are going to sow discord and allow for the loss of many of their members so they can make other people's property "A theater forholy entertainment." The guilt clause is really down and dirty by trying to blame those SHOT in the heart for bleeding on the singers "dancing slippers."
The only ones bringing reproach are the ones who deliberately LIE about every Biblical passage and known history to provide "a place in the mainstream for those who both seduce and repulse." That is why they LEAVE your foul churches in droves and national publications are used by the discorders to get publicity for their RADICAL DEPARTURE from the purposes of those who founded and paid for your church. We call that STEALING on this here forum.
Won't work: I know that you use "psychological violence" hoping to intimidate the CHURCH OWNERS so that they do not cause the PROBLEM. I cannot think of how one could be more dishonest and deceptive. The watching world blames YOU GUYS and know that they are deliberately lying TO GOD and ABOUT GOD. Most elders do not know the Biblical facts and this forum and others have limited your HOSTILE TAKEOVER to only those Judas Goats who planned to restructure the WHOLE church of Christ. If you have half a dozen out of over 13,000 then you are defending the LOOSERS and I can feel your pain from which the Word of God promises no recovery.
Rubel Shelly speaking for a revival of such worship wants a Musical Worship Facilitator (manipulator) to:
Work with the worship planning committee, the preaching minister and worship presentation groups (music, drama and technical) to facilitate group worship experiences which will help bring worshipers into the presence of God.
In paganism that was always an intimate "knowing" of God in a sexual way.
He also features the exhilarating feeling of new wine. Sorry, but the religious music-sexual connect is absolute from the garden of Eden when Lucifer called "the singing and harp playing prostitute" wholly seduced Eve in a sexual sense according to Paul as a new bride may have intentionally gone bad. As the king/queen of Tyre HE is a prostitute but he wants to be remembered as a male. Here is the Vineyard "mother" who gave birth to most of the "new style praise song books" in the most conservative churches: the GOAL is a sexual-like climax with the spirit. See whether I am the pervert or maybe we should question the accuser:
The New Wineskins is a direct copy of the Greek drama presented by Euripides in the Bacchae.
"And Euripides does likewise, in his Bacchae, citing the Lydian usages at the same time with those of Phrygia, because of their similarity:
But ye who left Mt. Tmolus (Sardis was on this mt.), fortress of Lydia, revel-band of mine, women whom I brought from the land of barbarians as my assistants and travelling companions [whores],
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 1 Corinthians 14:10
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 1 Corinthians 14:11
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 1 Corinthians 14:23
Paul connected tongues or "glossa" with instruments of warfare, theater and sorcery. "Mad" means driven mad by the gods. History knows of the MAD WOMEN in Corinth identified as the uncovered prophesiers in 1 Cor 11:5. They used "authentia" authority which was both erotic and murderous. It includes "enthusiasm or inspired frenzy" which is an outbreak of passion or "erotike." As a Charismatic outbreak GRACE may be a code word for "favors granted to a man."
"Dionysus will not compel women  to be modest in regard to Aphrodite ZOE, but in nature [modesty dwells always] you must look for that. For she who is modest will not be corrupted in Bacchic revelry. Do you see? You rejoice whenever many people are at your gates...
but by divine dispensation and possession; just as the Corybantian worshippers are keenly sensible of that strain alone which belongs to the god whose possession is on them, and have plenty of gestures and phrases for that tune, but do not heed any other.
And a third kind of possession and madness comes from the Muses. This takes hold upon a gentle and pure soul, arouses it and inspires it to songs and other poetry,
The word SPEAK is defined as the "opposite of poetry and music" because people put their LIES to melody to deceiveP: that is what you are defending.
Rev. 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:uplift the tambourines native to Phrygian cities, inventions of mine and mother Rhea. [ZOE]
Rev. 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev. 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev. 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev. 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians [Muses=adulteresses], and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev. 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
And again, happy he who, blest man, initiated in the mystic rites, is pure in his life, . . . who, preserving the righteous orgies of the great mother Cybele, and brandishing the thyrsus on high, and wreathed with ivy, doth worship Dionysus.
Come, ye Bacchae, come, ye Bacchae, bringing down (double entendre) Bromius, (boisterous one) god the child of god, out of the Phrygian mountains into the broad highways of Greece.
"For decades African Americans had used the term rock and roll as a euphemism for sex, and Presley's music oozed sexuality. Presley was hardly the only artist who embodied this attitude, but he was clearly a catalyst in the merger of black and white culture into something far bigger and more complex than both. The Britannica
The history of rock and roll is a history of infamy, a parade of perversion--illicit sex, drugs, rebellion against authority, and violence--in both the purveyors and consumers of it.
I mention that because my old church was stolen from the owners so they could to ROCK AND ROLL for their "third" service which always mean WE GONNA DO IT ALL DAY SUNDAY.
In the words of Rubel Shelly: "Come Holy Spirit, come, make us truly new creatures in Christ"
The watching world has had it POWERFULLY confirmed that The Church of Christ which always existed under that name ALWAYS rejected "machines for doing hard work" and for inducing sexual impulses INTENDS to make the teaching more certain. The result is that MANY others are reconsidering music: I get mail. The Apostolic Constitutions of The Church of Christ confirmed in about the year 200 that musicians were lumped with sodomites and were not permitted in the church until they repented. BUT, not in ALMOST ALL Churches of Christ. You guys tossed the skunk into the Church of Christ as Goats used by the NACC and they have abandoned their UNITY FORUMS because the seduction rate didn't pay off.
The sad part is that the Bible and many contemporaneous commentaries such as The Book of Enoch make it clear that once you have FALLEN yu will never get up and therefore we WARN trying to pull people out of the fires of Hell prepared for musical seducers and seducees (Isaiah 30)
You "musicators" are failures!
Reply To Ken's Post
|February 26 2008, 5:28 AM |
Before I get to the main point, I want to post here a part of another post I made at the Rochester forum.
After over twenty-five years in the ministry and having to return to our hometown, we now worship with my home congregation. This congregation is known for it's conservative stance and our elders would never consider bringing in instrumental music or "contemporary worship" styles. However, after years of serious study, I no longer personally believe instrumental music is wrong. Now, would I make that an issue where we worship and attempt to divide the church? Never! I respect the authority of the elders here, and also enjoy a good relationship with our preacher, who is a graduate of the Memphis School of Preaching. I don't believe that it's right for leaders (elders and preachers) to make decisions that are divisive to the church which runs-off members who have invested their lives into building up a congregation. Having said that, since each congregation is autonomous, that is up to the elders of that church to make that decision. Neither you, I, this forum, some publication, another congregation or elders from other congregations have any business in sticking our noses into their business. Right or wrong, the leaders of the congregations that are making dramatic changes will answer to God for their decisions. If someone else who knows them and loves them feels that they are going down the wrong path, it's up to them to talk with them personally and not in public forums such as this.
Now, to answer one of the thoughts you mentioned in your reply to my post, let me first quote you:
"It is IMPOSSIBLE for males to sing and do their thingies without attracting SOME males and many women. They just make males puke. It is not possible to let a woman 'preside over' or 'do discourse' as long as she uses a 'tune' without forcing MOST males to pay attention (worship) her instead of God whose WORDS they are commanded to speak one to another. Why do you want to put stumbling blocks in front of people? Romans 14 speaks of foods which identify all of the practices in the marketplace. In Romans 15 he outlaws SELF pleasuring which RADICALLY OUTLAWS all of the performing or hypocritic arts. Give consideration for the WEAK says Paul or you commit an unforgiveable sin with a HIGH HAND".
Ken, why do you continually bring the ideas of lust and sexuality into your discussions of contemporary worship styles? We've been at events where the groups: "Zoe", "Hallal" and other "Praise Teams" have been before the congregation singing and not once observed anything remotely sexually suggestive. Have you observed them singing? If you have not, then why are you speaking as if you know what goes on? If you have, were you sexually stimulated by either the women or the men? If so, that says something about your heart, brother.
The only times we've observed anything inappropriate was with two song leaders in conservative congregations. In fact, I didn't even notice it, until a few women made some comments. In both cases, the song leaders were wearing pants that were too tight. In one case, after it was pointed out to me, I decided to notice for myself and yes, there was a problem. The guy who was leading was in his late twenties and wearing tight (very tight) jeans and a tight t-shirt style of shirt. Not wanting to be provocative here, but yet to make my point, the young man's clothes left almost nothing to the imagination. He worked out and was in shape, so it could well have incited some lustful thoughts among some females. I had a personal talk with the brother, was considerate in the manner in which I spoke to him, and as a result, he never dressed that way again when he directed the singing. Notice that this had nothing to do with "contemporary worship" styles, rather, personal discretion. There was one incident apart from the worship that was not very modest. I was supposed to pick him up one morning to go to breakfast. On this particular day, I was to drop my wife off at work after we picked this brother up at his home. She wanted to speak to his wife about something when we stopped by their house, so she told me she would go to the door. She got a surprise when he came to the door in his jockey briefs (not realizing it was her). Of course, he immediately apologized, and also later apologized to me about the incident. I later had another talk with him about modesty and he has since done better.
Anyway, having said all that, we have a greater problem with modesty in general which has nothing to do with worship styles, so "contemporary worship" should not even be a consideration here.
PSALLO is a clear MARK ;-)
|March 27 2008, 12:10 PM |
Mark Henderson, Rick Atchley, Max Lucado etal:
1. The Psallo/Law of Exclusion argument This is a very complicated argument that I address in some detail in the paper, but even there, I only scratch the surface. A lot of trees have died to advance this argument over the years, but here is the gist of it. A form of the Greek verb psallo is used in Ephesians 5:19 where the NIV translates it make music, and the argument is that, in the New Testament era, the word literally meant to sing without instruments. It just means sing; it doesnt mean sing and play.
It doesn't even take a small limb to quote the Bible and all known evidence.
The problem is that the evidence doesnt support the idea that word ever meant to sing without instruments. In fact, the same word is used in the Septuagint, the first Christians Bible, to refer to the playing of stringed instruments, so its hard to imagine that the Holy Spirit would take a word from their Scriptures that means to play an instrument and use that same word to let them know not to play instruments
The fact is PSALLO simply means to tourch or smite and like the words in english says nothing about playing in instrument. In english if you say "smit the strings of the harp" you still say absolutely nothing about making music. If you say "smite the strings and make melody" you still have only a "series of single tones" and that does not make music. Because "melody" as tunefullness belongs to the 19th century and harmony always meant UNISON and came to mean NON-unison after the year 1200 there is nothing 'musical' in the entire Bible or early church history: God called it noise and literature calls it sorcery (Rev 18) or perversion.
The deeper you get the worse it smells: can you think of any reason why we and many other churches would see al massive outbreak of "lying wonders"?
As a Graduate of Ministry and 25 years in full and part time ministry, You have reminded me of what is most important. My eyes are open. I grew up in a church of 350 people in a small town. The preacher and elders successfully grew that church from 350 all the way down to 85 members in just 20 short years. 10 years later, that church ceases to exist. They sold their building to the "heathen" baptists and disbanded completely. Their leadsership was exactly like yours. Start with a negative position (are you ever for anything?) and then string a whole lot of scripture together that has nothing to do with each other, throw in some junior high translation on words and phrases only found by others espousing your opinion.
Oh yeah back to my open eyes train of thought. Our church who years ago freed ourselves from the bondage of your kind of thought has not struggled with that since. Yes we still have issues because we are all sinners. Thank you for reminding me how evil and ungodly your unloving legalistic teachings really are. By the grace of God I am reminded of one more thing he has freed me from.... People who are so shallow to think that in 2000 yers of christian history, that they are the only ones who were smart enough to figure it all out. Not only that but that can take great pride in pointing out how all of us got it wrong. Remind me again... Who did Jesus call a bunch of snakes? Those who wanted to know him but seemed to have everything wrong or those who knew they had it right and anyone who opposed their way should be dealt with... (hint the second group killed him)
|April 18 2008, 4:34 PM |
Did you just get out of insane asylum and stumble across a computer?
I just came across this head scratcher of a website and I couldn't help but notice that at least 75% of the material is posted by you, and 100% of your material is completely illegible.
What are all of you so upset about? How does it hurt you if an independent congregation uses musical instruments? Last time I checked this is a free country and you can go somewhere that doesn't use them.
This behavior is shameful.
Re: Ken's Writings
|April 19 2008, 1:00 PM |
I think you should be challenged. It appears that you are 100% uninformedproven by your 0% comprehension of what Ken has researched from literature and history in conjunction with what the Bible has already provided. In other words, the Bible is the source of original information, and history is there as evidence that those biblical revelations are true and accurate.
I would not be surprised to know if theres not another human being in this world who has amassed this wealth of invaluable researched information and data regarding music, musical idolatry and musical instruments. Just let us know as soon as you know of another individual on earth that has more in-depth knowledge and understanding of these subject matters.
As far as being upset is concerned, you are the one who is upset by the fact that the independent congregation you speak of has been found out. That congregation is independent alright and it should have no business associating itself with the name of Christ; but this website will continue to inform the brotherhood if there are other congregations who have succumbed to the desire of independence as well.
The behavior of this independent congregation is shameful to the 99.925% of the congregations of the church of Christ. These congregations do not allow the participation of lifeless and inanimate musical machines in their assemblies.
Re: Ken's Writings
|April 22 2008, 5:27 PM |
While 99.925% of the Churches of Christ may not allow lifeless instruments into their worship, 100% of these that I have visited allow lifeless inanimate so-called christians into there assemblies.
How can we expect to bring people to Christ, when all they see is supposed "christians" making a mockery of the faith? This website is full of legalistic members who are not interested in bringing people to Christ; all they are interested in is running others into the ground because they don't agree with every legalistic idea they have. There is no love in their hearts,for if there was they would be on there knees praying for forgiveness for the things they say on this website. Just becuase you write the words down,and don't say them out loud doesn't mean God doesn't know you said them. You WILL be judged on the postings from this website. I will pray for you all.
Will someone report?
|June 25 2008, 9:21 AM |
It appears that Oak Hill's grand scheme boasting of their improved growth patterns has fallen flat: according to most reports the original owners and "investors" had already been driven out by the time the instruments hit tht "holy places." As a result the giving stopped their growth and the cash flow which is never made up by the butterflies looking for the best "music venue" who do not have money and would not giveit to untrustworthy people if they had it.
Richland Hills seems to still be below their "boasted of" attendance of 6,400 which had slipped to about 4,500 when the instruments were added for Sabbath Worship only. That slipped to about 3,500 and has recovereed abit.
Quail Springs confessed to a rapid walkout of 300 of their 900 and they went from the planned Sabbath Music to Sunday: it would be interesting if someone reported on the attendance on the two services and the relative contributions. This is important because all of the reports have shown that the infiltrated churches have not grown like the "traditional" churches.
|July 1 2008, 1:58 AM |
What do you care what is happening at Oak Hills? They removed the name "church of Christ" from their sign 5 years ago. It is no longer a church of Christ in your sense of the term. What is it with your morbid infatuation with this church and your desire to see it fail? Oh yeah, that's you expressing your "christian" love and concern.
|June 25 2008, 11:54 AM |
Yes, at one level I apologize for my writing. I simply do not have the time to turn it into an amusing story, song or sermon. However, I suspect that most people are being defrauded by the modern view of sermons and singing.
However, I don't write for public consumption because it takes lots of time to digest.
That is why most of my material quotes the Bible (as Donnie noted and that might be strange) and also links to the best lexicons and to the ancient texts. Because we do not have absolute definitions of words, it is important to see how they were used in context.
Is someone DREDGED up the Greek word PSALLO as late as 1878 to try to justify dividing the Disciples (later Christian Churches) to justify the use of music AS worship. At the time the Disciples told a judge that the organ (only) was a aid to singing much like a pitchpipe and IF it was used AS worship then it would be SINFUL. Therefore, the fathers of the Disciples passed radical judgment on later generations who use other instruments and AS worship.
Paul put the melody in the PLACE of the heart so that should settle the issue. However, the word PSALLO is never in any other literature been translated as melody or "tunefulness." The word has its major use identifying Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) who was the father of twanging bows to send singing arrows into the literal heart. He is also the father of musical melody, homosexual worship, thieves and liars. Therefore, the word primarily points to making war or to "shooting love arrows." All of the literature quoted by the instrumentalists to prove their point about plucking also identifies older males plucking their harp as a way to seduce a young male..
By posting those blue links you can go to the original source and do your OWN THINKING. It is a medical and cultural fact that most of our generation has been mentally disabled so that they lack the energy or ability to dig into anything beyond sound bytes. The same false preachers who disabled you now claim that YOU are not able to read complex thoughts and therefore YOU need to pay THEM to teach everything in sound, sight and motion. That should insult you.
The postmodern heresy, the deep meditation and a flood of "worship teams" at Lipscomb this year is truly shocking:
Rubel Shelly claims to have new spectacles to get a NEW VISION for the church but it is an old vision from WICCA:
"If this seems overstated, consider the thesis put forth by Leonard Shlain in his 1999 book The Alphabet Versus the Goddess: the Conflict Between Word and Image:
> Goddess worship, feminine values, and women's power depend on the ubiquity of the image.
> God worship, masculine values, and men's domination of women are bound to the written word.
Word and image, like masculine and feminine, are complementary opposites.
Whenever a culture elevates the written word at the expense of the image patriarchy dominates. [Then we can also assume that when a culture elevates the image at the expense of the written word, matriarchy dominates-as in Hillary Clinton and Janet Reno and Donna Shalala and female Supreme Court justices ad infinitum.] (Qtd. on page 6 of the June 1999 The Quality Paperback Book Review.)
"As an obviously agnostic and feminist (and possibly pagan) "scholar," Shlain fails to grasp the true significance of his discovery that (in the words of the June 1999 The Quality Paperback Book Review),
"the very act of reading an alphabet reinforce[s] the brain's left hemisphere
(linear, abstract, predominantly masculine)
at the expense of the right (holistic, concrete, visual, feminine)."
"It's hardly surprising, then, that in our culture literacy and morality decreased and goddess worship increased following a rising emphasis on images (picture magazines and books; television; viewscreens; video games; computer icons), or that antichrist will employ an image to further enslave people in the tribulation.
Nor is it surprising that there was no success in any "women's movements" until Great Britain and America both abandoned the AV 1611 in favor of counterfeit "bibles", nor can there be any ecumenical success unless men abandon the AV 1611 in favor of the words of a "woman" (Rev. 17-18).... Those who abandon the true masculine words of God will inevitablygive themselves over to "profane and old wives' fables" (1 Tim. 4:6-7). Daryl Coates
|July 3 2008, 4:37 PM |
CDG, as a member of Oak Hills since 1982 and one that has toiled many, many hours to try to build up what has now been taken down, I DO care what has happened at Oak Hills! Additionally, it takes someone with the intellect of Ken to put the history of this congregation in biblical perspective.
None of Ken's information is contrived on his part. I would suspect that much of it comes from many emails exchanged over the years between the two of us. He speaks with my PERSONAL knowledge of events. Now, any more questions?
|March 20 2009, 11:50 AM |
What did you guys do to Mark Henderson?
Where did he go?
|March 23 2009, 9:57 PM |
It is shameful that this site even exists. It is nothing but a gossip forum for "Christians." And no, Ken, we do not need your posts to be presented in some entertaining and "fun" way. It would just be helpful if it was presented logically and clearly. I am a fairly educated guy, but I think most people see what I see: A bunch of different colors and caps locks with nonsense rambling about sexual perversion and music. Sorry, but I do not know of anyone who has been turned on by singing a hymn in church, whether it be acappela or instrumental. I really hope that people who are looking for true peace and deliverance in Jesus Christ do not stumble on this website. The power of the gospel is not found in legalistic ramblings, but in the cross of Christ. Law has never been able to change the heart of man, only Christ can do that.
Re: Mark Henderson
|August 25 2009, 11:46 PM |
He resigned as our minister.