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Rochester Church of Christ announces satellite church

February 4 2008 at 11:56 AM
Tim Grahl  (Login tgrahl)
from IP address

The Rochester Church of Christ has announced the foundation of a "satellite" church, overseen by the leadership of the Rochester Church of Christ. This new "church" is called the Christ Church: Macomb and will feature, according to the website , "a blend of instrumental and acappella music" and "A DVD captured from services at Rochester Church of Christ."

How long will it be before the Rochester Church of Christ is fully "changed" and renamed to Christ Church: Rochester??

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Stan Cook
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Rochester Church

February 24 2008, 5:16 AM 

So what, if they want to be called "Christ Church"? That's just as scriptural as "Church of Christ". It just goes to show that Churches of Christ are not autonomous when people make an issue over something of that nature. It also proves that "Church of Christ" is an official title or a brand name. The title "Church of Christ" has become denominationalized. Do you really think that the Christians in the first century had signs outside the places where they met with "Church of Christ" on them?

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Tim Grahl
(Login tgrahl)

Not just the name

February 26 2008, 11:05 AM 


There is more at stake here than just a name change. There is the issue of the elders being over 2 different churches and obviously the issue of instrumental music. These two issues, as well as the name change, are a large step toward denominationalism.

The name, indicating the ownership of the church is VERY important. You also seem to have a misunderstanding of the use of the term "church of Christ". This is not a name given to a building, this is a name given to the disciples of Christ that have been added to His body. Just as the word Christian does not apply to catholics or lutherans, the church of Christ is reserved only for those who are part of His body and remain faithful to the New Testament. You cannot "join" the church of Christ, you are added to the "body" by baptism.

The church of Christ is THE church established by Christ. It is NOT a denomination. It is also the ONLY church founded by Christ and the only church or body that is referred to in the New Testament. If you are not a part of the body (the church of Christ) you are part of a man-made denomination.

When the name "church of Christ" is on a building, you can be fairly confident that the members (congregation) that meets there is a PART of the body of Christ. Although each denomination of the church of Christ is autonomous, they are all members of the ONE body, ONE church established by Christ.

Do not confuse the man-made names of churches (denominations) with the ONE church established by Christ.

The name IS important. The church of Christ is THE body of Christ, made up of members who have been added to the church. You will NOT read about the Catholic church in the Bible, you will NOT read about the Lutheran church in the Bible and you will not read about the denomination called Christ Church in the Bible either.

If the name were not important, then we would not have found it mentioned in the scriptures.

"Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you." Romans 16:16

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Ken Sublett
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Means under the MOTHER CHURCH from Lucado who diverted his church

February 25 2008, 11:17 AM 

The satellite church is from following behind Max Lucado too closely: it is a way to build new "chicks" for what Max calls the MOTHER CHURCH. They intend to use the people's money to establish INSTRUMENTAL churches although they throw the a capellas a few gnawed bones. That is fitting because the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17) uses the "lusted after fruits (Amos etal) as slick speakers, singers and instrument players. John in Revelation 18 called them sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world. That points back to Lucifer (Zoe mother of the gods) who is called the "singing and harp playing prostitute." There is no recorded history which does not mark this as a hostile takeover of gender-bleeds if you read.

Patrick Mead at Rochester Church of Christ in his first sermon on God and Instrumental Music sifts through the Old Testament for passages that use an instrument of any kind. This tends to flood the mind with the notion that the Bible is filled with direct commands to use instrumental music to worship God. Here is my first review of Patrick Meads DITTO HEAD of the NACC handouts.

Patrick's sermon # 2 has been reviewed in part by clicking here.

This intentionally just picks up on the obvious uses of instruments (machines for deceiving or controlling) none of which are used in the spiritual worship of the "citizens" of Israel. All of the "proof texts" lifted from the NACC's lexicon prove that the preacher has NEVER read either the context or story line.

On the contrary, these are all marks of Satan (Lucifer, Zoe), making war, sending signals, exorcism, prostitutes and Sodomites. The proof-texts--intentionally ignoring the context and story line--are MARKS of a national, Civil-Priestly state to which God abandoned Israel because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. [Acts 7 and many clear statements)

On the other hand, the Bible is flooded with LOUD warnings beginning with Genesis where the "serpent" is defined as a musical enchanter(ess) who is bisexual and able to wholly seduce Eve in a sexual way says Paul and able for Adam to "eat of the tallest tree in Eden" whom the prophets identify as the Assyrians. The FRUITS are not apples.

Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute in Eden: Ezekiel 28
Assyrians in Eden: Ezekiel 31

In the middle of the Bible and throughout, Amos lumps the female-controlled players of musical instrumets with the "basket of summer FRUITS." These are defined as the DOGS or CATAMITES Paul warned about in our worship. They caused the people to hunger and thirst for the Word of God until they died or went into captivity with the females led away with fishhooks in their nose.

The Bible ends with the Mother of harlots (Revelation 17) using the "lusted after FRUITS" as speakers, singers and instrumentalists identified by John as sorcerers (Revelation 18) who HAD deceived the whole world.
Why is this important in reviewing the RESOURCES hand fed by the NACC to a few preachers and THEIR repeating the material almost word-for-word?

It is because Jesus told the Apostles why He would not even preach the clear gospel to the clergy of Scribes and Pharisees whom He called hypocrites. Jesus pointed to Isaiah and Ezekiel who identify the HYPOCRITES as speakers, singers and instrument players along with anyone who would go out and listen to them to be entertained.

Jesus said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World FROM those He also called Doctors of the Law who "Take away the KEY to knowledge." They, being blind, will lead the blind and charge you an unlawful wage for doing it.

Why do people hide the dozens of bright lights warning about instruments as a MARK of rejecting God under a bushel of isolated verses none of which defines collective worship?

We have responded to Stan Cook who seems to be an AGENT of some kind on the Quail Springs Thread:

They PLANNED to "burn down" churches and rebuild on the ashes if necessary in order to steal the church house of widows. Because they have Judas Goated only a few churches of those ORIGINAL PLANNERS ONLY out of about 13,500 they are feeling really nasty and blaming those who were shot in the heart for getting healed.

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Stan Cook
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Ken, Here You Go Again

February 26 2008, 4:18 AM 

Here you go again bringing sexuality into people's worship. You didn't respond to my comment about a group having to wear the "title" "Church of Christ", because you can't. You just ramble on with your babbling about stuff that makes absolutely no sense. Others have pointed this out over and over again. By the way, our family worships with a very conservative congregation whose elders would not ever consider bringing in instrumental music. But that's what's so wonderful about autonomy. Elders of congregations can lead churches to the best of their abilty and, right or wrong, they will answer to God for their decisions. Most elders know the Word, and even when they make decisions that other congregations don't agree on, that's between them and God.

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Jimmy Joe
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Good Job

February 27 2008, 12:15 AM 

Congratulations Mr. Cook as you have deciphered Mr. Sublett as have most readers to this site. By reading Mr. Sublett's post you have been introduced to a new division of sexuality. We've all heard of heterosexual, homosexual, a-sexual, bi-sexual and now the newest division the music-sexual. If you live to be a hundred there is always something new to learn.

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Re: Means under the MOTHER CHURCH from Lucado who diverted his church

August 11 2008, 2:34 AM 

Borrrrrrrrrrrring, this sycophant loves to spew nonsense about how if you like instrumental music you must be gay. His laughable treatment of text and history continues to make me laugh to the point of tears. Perhaps one day people like Ken Sublet will receive an epiphany, one that will cure his ignorance towards anything factual. People such as this Ken Sublet are the reason Christianity is dying throughout the world, because those who have risen above the ignorance that so heavily plagued this world now point to them as proof that Christianity is nothing but an excuse for the dumb to run to for protection. So, Ken, Thank you for again embarrassing my religion, and thank you again for providing an argument for billions as to why Christianity is falling to the wayside, especially the Church of Christ. When will we learn that the real issue is not who is gay because they like to worship with a guitar, or how wrong others are because they were not born into a tradition that we somewhere along the line decided was the end all be all, but concern ourselves with the true message of Jesus. Caring for the poor, the sick, the hungry, the widows, and the fringe people. I am not a fan of Rochester CofC, not in the slightest, but at least some of them are attempting to do just that. Ken, as I have said before; Grow up, we no longer live in a society where the protestant white male is king, its time for us to use our brains when it comes to Jesus, I know that this may be a new concept

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Ken: Seek Help

August 27 2009, 8:57 PM 

I think you suffer from schizophrenia, or some other mental instability. Someone definitely has a problem, when every time, they point towards sex being the catalyst or culprit. A guitar or a drum has never made me react sexually. I feel no arousal when a keyboard is playing. You are border-line obsessive. Is there an underlying problem. Do you need to go forward. I picture everything that you post on this site, written all over the walls of your bedroom. Get help.

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Ken Sublett
(no login)

I already take pills for all of my glands.

August 28 2009, 8:55 PM 

Sorry to dissappoint you but at 79ish I think all women are boys with long hair and I don't care for boys with long hair especially doing falsetto while standing in the holy place claiming to be Jesus Christ by telling you that they can lead you into the presence of God. Sorry bout that but all of those were gender bent and Paul hoped their knife slipped.

As for as my house it is a 4,000 house in the deep woods, plain vanilla with most of the walls still bare except some family paintings, sketches and engravings from our old Seattle engravings days when they all became available. One wife, one dog, one cat and not close to being ready to go listen to effeminate preaching and singing which has NOTHING to do with the Church Christ ordained.

I keep looking for something to give you some hope but if making me the goate (cappella) go right ahead but you will never find any recorded history which does not connect males doing music as "performing the woman's role.

1 Chr 15:27 And David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, and all the Levites that bare the ark, and the singers, and Chenaniah the master of the song with the singers:

Stola a woman's upper garment, or stole, as with the Greeks, worn by any one: squalid saeptus stol, Dress of a voluptuary, a cithern-plaer, noble woman, The priests of Isis [at Mount Sinai], Diana goddess of Light and the Moon

You WILL remember that because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God turned the Levi tribe over to worship the starry host and all of the descriptions of them point to "performing the woman's role." Jesus came to shut down matriarchal worship as being owned as the SON of a FATHER rather than a DAUGHTER of a MOTHER (Zoe, Sophia etc.).

[linked image]
[linked image]

Sorry, but trying to TURN THE TRICK won't help those who blaspheme by doing music when Jesus comes to be out teacher.

Here is the patternism commanded by Christ for the Church of Christ in the wilderness:

Acts 15:21 For Moses
of old time hath
in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

If they are doing more than that they have seduced you as a paying patron.

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Ken Sublett
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John Mark Hicks teaching heresy at Rochester

November 9 2008, 6:36 PM 

John Mark Hicks gathers with an ecumenical group at Rochester University under the present oversight of Rubel Shelly. Having come close to failure by not attracting faithful students, this effort seems to have spread into the "broader evangelical" world to find students. To that end, John Mark Hicks repeats his raw assertions about Alexander Campbell's Christian System and other Restoration documents. One supposes that if a few Churches of Christ can fall into the trap of a FAMILY OF GODS none of whom has full Deity, that too will help. We will quote a Mormon blog to say that the WWCOG has dropped their opposition to trinitarianism in order to be accepted by the Evangelical movement.

I have done a quick review and where Hicks makes raw assertions I have tracked down most of his quotes. It is very clear that while Alexander Campbell and all of His religious heritage rejected the Catholic Trinity, Hicks excerpts "scholarly" to make Campbell a TRUE TRINITARIAN.

Our task will be to quote TRUE HISTORY and prove that the postmodern view among the scholars gives itself the LIBERTY to take the old fragments of Scripture and History and REWRITE it into an emerging dogma.

Trinity as âNecessaryâ Fact in Alexander Campbellâs âChristian System of Facts"

If you read those false assertions marked John Mark Hicks you can just skip the quotations from the Bible and the REAL Alexander Campbell if it is too long. this will link you to many other Restoration Movement papers to show that those universities once faithful to their founders have fallen into a totally corrupt form of ancient Babylonianism.

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Answer to God

November 14 2008, 9:21 PM 

Ken will have to answer to God one day on why he slandered faithful brothers of the Lord's Church, and as to why he attacked the body of Christ.



There is a colossal difference between attacking the body of Christ and repudiating the teachings of change agents operating in the body of Christ. The latter Ken does; the former he does not.

I would not consider John Mark Hicks and Rubel Shelly faithful brothers of the Lord's church until they return to the basics and fundamentals of Christ's teachings concerning His church or kingdom -- as they once did -- prior to becoming disciples of church transformation or restructuring. The church that belongs to Christ deserves and needs neither.

Hicks and Shelly "will have to answer to God one day ... 'for slandering [His church].'"

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Nov 15, 2008 6:28 PM

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Editorial comments not necessary except out of fear

November 16 2008, 2:50 PM 

No, Donnie. Ken has done nothing good for the Kingdom of God, nor anything to give glory to our Lord. His "ministry" is solely to tear down what Jesus gave his life to build up. Ken is free to diagreewith anyone he wishes, but such freedom does not give him the right to tear down the bride of Christ nor to slander his fellow believers.

Dr. Shelly and Dr. Hicks have done much to give glory to God and to build up his church.

The very fact that you must edit my post with your comments indicates the fear of a post that exposes Ken for what he really is.

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Ken Sublett
(no login)

C. Leonard at Rochester

December 4 2008, 4:18 PM 

I have done a quick review of C. Leonard Allen's take on the TRINITY as necessary because the Godhead had COMMUNITY within THEMselves. Of course, he uses other "doctors of the law" to define this new community of persons which is a radical departure from the classical trinity which proves that any communing was between God who as father THOUGHT and His breath expelled wordS which became His Son. Indeed, communing within oneself is a common practice of all well developed humans.

This is a one day review and rough:

Proves that you don't need the Bible to be a Bible scholar:

1Tim. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: [hypocrite of Scribes and Pharisees
Jesus identified as speakers, singers and instrument players.]
1Tim. 1:6 From which some having swerved have tu
understanding neither what they say,
nor whereof they affirm.

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and
vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped,
who subvert whole houses,teaching things which they ought not,
for filthy lucres sake.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Female Preacher on Instrumental Music

July 30 2011, 9:30 PM 

Does anyone know the name of the female preacher defending the use of Instrumental Music at Rochester. I discovered that I have four sermons and have listened to part of the first one.

I am always shocked that I am not remotely surprise that women can be as ignorant of the Bible as men. She is going through the same list of examples under the sacrificial system.

She sounds very prideful that she is so bright: how did she miss the fact that God turned them over to worship the starry host BECAUSE of musical idolatry.

The evil thread being promoted by a few is exactly the rise of the Babylonian Mother of Harlots Revelation 17-18.


YOU can send it e-mail.

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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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