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Steve B.
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June 20 2012, 2:43 PM 

How can people who claim to know and follow our Lord Jesus Christ be filled with so much hate in their attitude? To be honest, it sounds like a bunch of children arguing over who has the strongest dad! If First Colony thinks this "aid" can bring more people to Christ, then let God be the judge. We argue more over things the Bible does not even address!

First Colony and all churches of Christ are independent. The eldership of that congregation decides what that church will do. No one outside that church has any authority to tell them what to do. This is denominationalism at its best or worse, whichever way you want to look at it. If you think it is wrong to sing with instruments, then DON'T DO IT. Leave other people alone.

Also, airing all this dirty laundry on the internet can certainly not be a positive testimony for our Lord. Follow your grandmother's advice and "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Do you really believe that Ronnie Norman, etc., is going to change all churches of Christ into instrumental music churches? Are we dillusional?

We argue over instrumental music not being scriptural and then turn around and slander our brother, and get involved in "foolish arguments." I don't see anyone quoting those scriptures. If you have strong convictions about these things, the Bible says, "Keep them to yourself and God." The ones I see causing division are the ones showing a lack of love for their brother.

I think that all of us should be ashamed of ourselves who wear the name of Christ. From reading this, I would never become a member of a Church of Christ because these comments are far from being a church Christ builds. I believe Satan is the author of this "stuff." Just like the Pharisees, we can't see past the end of our nose...

We should be in prayer over our attitudes.

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Ken Sublett
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First Colony INVADING peaceful territory.

May 7 2008, 10:19 PM 

Here is how they turn the trick: This is so vile I have trouble believing that even Satan could pull it off without some real trouble in river city. But, Paul warned the Thessalonian church.

You will notice that Ministry Team is at the TOP.

Ronnie Norman is our Senior Minister. Ronnie's gifts of preaching and providing leadership to the church family continue to be a catalyst for effective ministry. Serving the church since 1985, Ronnie is the only Senior Minister in the history of First Colony. 1985 is about the time a small band of merry men concocted their plan and made masterful use of Machiavelli and Mein Kampf. Ronnie Norman's name has been spread far and wide as part of this notorious band.


Ronnie Norman became a Directing elder in 2004

A nasty conflict of interest

Dates they became elders: 2007, 2005, 2001, 1992, 2007, 2007, *1996, 2005, 2007, *1987, 2007, 2005, *1991, 2007, 2001, 2007, ronnie 2004, 2005, 2005, 2005, *1991, 2007, *1991, 2005, 2005, 2005, 2007,

So ALL of the DIRECTING ELDER are Pre-Diversion.

You have a brand new CROP and THAT is part of the Purpose Driven scam.

Shepherding elders have been well defined by men like Rubel Shelly as SHEPHERDING THE MINISTER "who by training and charisma is best suited to be THE leader." By working with the deacons and staff you can see that you have been transistion from a Scriptural church of Christ where the elders are the TOTAL overseers and feeders of the flock who are named along with the deacons. This was charted by Rick Atchley using the PYRAMID because the NEW INSTITUTE is a virtual ziggurat or Tower of Babel where the agent of the gods sits up on top where the collection plate is located. The slaves sing and play instruments on their way to "lay by in store" being told that they will meet the gods or angels ascending and descending. The Mother of Harlots lives again.

Lynn Anderson used some slick willie pressure to get a very conservative eldership to permit him to hold

This was San Antonio June 19-21, 2003, so you can see that an OVERPOWERING crop of new elders undoubtedly infused by Ronnie Norman was just in time to "start boiling the frogs" because deception takes time and lots of planning. The SHEPHERDING elders will be the ones in contact and the old faithful elders have been KICKED UPSTAIRS.

I quote: "The first annual National Shepherd's Clinic will be held in San Antonio June 19-21, 2003 at Northside Church of Christ. Join me and hundreds of other church leaders for two rich days: Shepherding skills, Case studies from churches in transition, Moving from control to empowerment, Litigation-proofing your church....
    and Transitioning your church.
    Also Chris Seidman and Ronnie Norman presented strong keynote addresses.
In the Purpose Driven Cult "litigation" includes how to forge your bylaws so that when YOU steal the property the OWNERS cannot steal it back.

Transition n 1: the act of passing from one state or place to the next [syn: {passage}] 2: an event that results in a transformation [syn: {conversion}, {changeover}] 3: a change from one place or state or subject or stage to another 4: a musical passage moving from one key to another [syn: {modulation}] 5: a passage that connects a topic to one that follows
<color=red>"The sessions addressed Transitioning: Moving church leadership style from a Managing Board to a Shepherd's Circle of shepherding, mentoring and equipping. The agenda featured eight case studies from congregations at one stage or another along "Transition Trail" -- sharing both successes and difficulties.

Now you know that the old Managing Board has been usurped by a "Shepherd's Circle of Shepherding." Old Lynn lifts lots of stuff directly from Wicca or Witchcraft "patternism."

Lynn Anderson promotes the Promise Keepers Shepherding scheme which intends to turn the church into a Crossroads or IOCC movement with top-down domination.

I have a Web Page where I will continue to upgrade to prove that the hostile musical takeover is always the rise ot the effeminate or worse "providing a place in the mainstream for those who both amuse and repulse." This fits the patternism that most churches have become a feminist or effeminate ritual nothing like the MASCULINE school of the Bible Jesus died for to get these burden laders off your back.

If I have lifted comments you had rather not get posted just let me know. I will also post any updates so we can see the Mother dragging the sheep off into the bushes.


2003 Teaching others by CASE STUDIES about how to TRANSISTION your church.
2004 Ronnie Norman gets to be a Directing Elder
    These men undoubtedly OWE Ronnie for their position and THEY will direct the Staff and Elders:
    What else is there to DIRECT.
Chris Seidman had turned the trick: they wrote a white paper filled with black lies and dared me to refute. I did.
Max Lucado had a VISION to remove CHRIST out of the way and ADD instruments: you understand just soft strings in maybe a class room. Lies. Wrote out his vision which parallels Chris Seidman which parallels the script handed to them by the NACC.
Rick Atchley--college roomie--went next. The Holy Spirit guarded, guided and directed to do his sermons: all lies and the same script.
Mark Henderson was the next one to get goosed: same lies with Atchley's CD."
Having figured the LOSSES as acceptable in
Ronnie Norman STACKS THE DECK and goes 2008

I can tell you one thing, this writer KNOWS that they are all lying and managed their lying wonders just like Revelation 17-18 details which happened several times in the Old Testament.

Not, to worry too much: You can count Milton Jones who spread the same lies in Seattle and stole my best work, you can count I have listed and I have not heard the names of any others. So PURPOSE DRIVEN to divert 13,000 congregations they got a few Anti Christ Universities which will help HEAL the wounds and those churches the INTENTIONAL DIVERTERS have had to radicalize or be so ashamed that they would have to be premature in their Judas Maneuver.

You need to look closely at why this small group have been so bonded to follow one another in sequence and all knowing that they were lying TO God and ABOUT God. Those enablers will burn in the same toasters.

When Ronnie LECTURES please transcript or make a list of the PROOFS and the Passages he twists out of shape and I will respond.

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Milton Jones

February 1 2009, 6:19 AM 

Can you please give ma any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you

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KEN Sublett
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No DOLE, no motive to LIE!

May 8 2008, 11:03 PM 

Here is why you NEED all of those BRAND NEW SHEPHERDS (probably not elders). Max Lucado hired a Discipling Minister. So, you already have the ticks fangs sunk deeply and lots of the resources have been already DIVERTED. They can still be litigated for stealing from you. The secret Guitar thing has not been accidental and I suggest you seek out a "Church in Exile" which has been planning how to do the CULT takeover. Lynn Anderson gives you reason for NEVER telling any of these new SHEPHERDS the time of day and you need to spread the word. They will love to get the dope on you and all such accountability groups insist that your secrets be tabulated and turned in to headquarters. Thereafter, if you dare even question them they will hurt you. Anyone willing to lie, cheat and steal your property, spiritual happiness, church family and literaly family connections. Rick Atchley let it be known that "you may have to choose between your family and instrumental music." The Stepford wives will also be ready to work on any wife whose husband begins to stand in their way.

Lynn Anderson: Accountability Group (no more than 3) What are some good questions to ask each time 2 or 3 of us men meet to hold each other accountable. What are the do's and don'ts of such a commitment...size limits...suggestions for such a commitment. If women want to do this, what accountability questions would be asked in this case? Your ideas and experiences and suggested resources please. We are ministers wanting to lead holy lives before our community in the hope that we may have opportunities to minister and teach.

Accountability Group (no more than 3) Maybe something I say about this can be of help.
I think we all know that accountability is an essential part of Christianity in that we are to help each other grow and become sharpened as iron sharpens iron.

Accountability questions need to be positive focused, direct, and geared toward motivating people to grow.

This type of accountability can be hard but it is where people really grow. Especially us ministers have a hard time admitting our faults for fear of discovery and losing our jobs and/or reputations. The end result is that many of us live double lives with secret sin being our second god that we worship when no one else is looking.

Obviously in some cases this deeper type of accountability is only appropriate within all male or all female groups.

Accountability groups only work when there is trust and openness. This may take a while to develop.

Give it time and START SLOW until you feel that your relationship can progress into these more INTIMATE areas.

Here's the list from Steve Farrar's "Point Man" (Promise Keepers)

1. Have you been with a woman this week in such a way that was inappropriate or could have looked to others that you were using poor judgment?

2. Have you been completely above reproach in all your financial dealings this week?

3. Have you exposed yourself to any explicit material this week?

4. Have you spent daily time in prayer and in the Scriptures this week?

5. Have you fulfilled the mandate of your calling this week?

6. Have you taken time off to be with your family this week?

7. Have you just lied to me?

Actually, Hope Network Ministries exists to coach, mentor and equip spiritual leaders. For that reason we do not use our web site to process doctrinal issues,

denominational peculiarities or personalities.

Rather we use this forum to encourage christian leaders, share ministry resources, coach and respond to questions regarding strategies, systems, skills etc. - things of this nature.

For most stable people this sounds so far out that you may be in DENIAL because your normal mind cannot grasp the depth of people able to work LYING WONDERS.

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(Login rleallen)

Ronnie's Sermon 5-4-2008

May 10 2008, 12:52 PM 

I wanted to comment on Ronnie’s sermon this past Sunday (5-4-2008). He took his sermon from Romans and specifically the section I wanted to speak to is in Romans 14. I do not believe that Paul was talking about people within the same Faith. I can almost say for certain that he was speaking of people with different Faiths. Those faiths included eastern religion that had practices far different than those practiced by the followers of Jesus. I believe that the people that congregated together were of like mind in how they should do “church”. For example, in Stafford, TX on Ave. E there is the most beautiful Hindu Temple. Hinduism believes that one can be of any religion, yet their faith is still Hindu. They can sit in any church and not violate their faith. Their religion is very open, their faith is very strong. If they were to be converted to a belief in Jesus, they would have a lot of adjusting in their hearts. Inside their temple is a statue/Idol which is tended to daily. They will change the robes on this statue at least every two days, food will be placed in front of it regularly and the windows and doors are opened and shut depending on weather and the light. I think Paul was saying to Christians, then and now, accept these people as souls that God cares for and do not belittle them, and keep your comments between you and God(vs. 22). We should minister to them in the love of Jesus. I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?

When Jesus called his faithful, he told them to leave everything and follow him. During Jesus time, knowing how to provide food on a daily basis would be important to a mass of people, like fishing for food would have been. He did not turn to his followers and say, my ministry could use a few your nets and boats for fishing to feed people. He did not say, this ability you have mastered, would make my ministry more appealing to people and bring more people to knowing God. Nothing like the messages that Ronnie has been teaching the congregation about the musical service that he believes needs to be implemented, so as to attract or satisfy people. No on the contrary! Jesus said leave everything, your fishing nets, boats, bait, everything and follow me in Faith! Could we not say, as we follow Jesus example, that we need nothing to be more appealing to others than our heart, the spirit within us, which is God’s gift to everyone! Now in love, who should we follow?

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Ronnie's Sermon 5-4-2008

May 19 2008, 11:07 AM 


I appreciate you givning your thoughts on Ronnie and Romans 14. I don't agree with your conclusions (it seems evident to me, and most all scholars, that Paul was talking about and to Christians and their differing beliefs on what Paul deemed to be non-essential matters), but at least your thougths were specific to Ronnie's sermon. This is unlike Ken's modus operandi, where he simply takes things he wrote years ago, and repackages them for each on his new conspiracy theories (see for evidence).

I will also add that no one who has listened to Ronnie's sermon from this last Sunday (May 18th) could ever conclude that Ronnie follows anything other than the Word of God, and that only.

I have personally witnessed the good at First Colony, how lives have been changed from serving self to serving God, and how God is using the leaders and members at First Colony for advancement of God's kingdom and His glory. And I personally witnessed how Ken is tearing down God's kingdom.

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Ken Sublett
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Bringing the POLLUTED Marketplace into the EKKLESIA

May 10 2008, 5:24 PM 

Robert, this is the usual mantra to prove that it gives THEM the right to bring THEIR doubtful disputations into the "school of the Bible" and YOU have no right to object. The fact is, Paul was consigning all of the SELF-speak and self composed non-Biblical sermons and songs to the MARKETPLACE along with all other defiling or polluting practices.

It simply is not possible to even hallucinate turning a Church of Christ into a musical worship center without being terminally ignorant or terminally evil. The cards are ALL stacked against the latter day upstarts but they put on their blinders and pretend that the radical associaton with Satan, warriors, sacrificial sacrificers, prostitutes and Sodomites does not exist.

I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?

What he is saying is that he wants to SPLIT the congregation so that his planned discorders can have their OWN church and drive many of the owners out into the cold. You are not speaking of a doctrinal problem you are speaking of the personification of evil.

It is abundantly clear that the GOAL is to go fully instrumental. They want to pollute the owners building with what they consider sinful and ANTI-Biblical and use psychological violence to keep them from RUNNING--but they will.

Those discipled in the Bible know that using MACHINES in the worship of a Holy God is universally condemned in the Bible and all of church history. It is always in the Bible a MARK of those telling God to: "Shut your face." If you are going to be DIVISIVE then Ronnie should do the minimally ethiical thing and go to a church already SERVING those who want to do "machine worship." It certainly shows that Ronnie is bound to get his way--spite of hell. Let him try to get the Baptist or Christian church to be so radically foolish.

They should have those opinions to themselves. They are NOT to be received in the church in order to accomodate their views. By teacing "that which is written" with one mind and one mouth in romans 15 the singers and instrument players could still practice their diet but they could NOT bring their charismatic MUSICAL practices into the ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--ONLY.

In fact, Ronnie Norman and all of those who begin the GUILT TRIP do not have a remote clue that Paul was EXCLUDING the marketplace practices FROM the ekklesia or school of the Bible. Now, Ronnie wants to IMPOSE HIS doubtful disputations on the OWNERS and force the total assembly to MAKE USE of that which Paul OUTLAWED. You don't have to be bright to be a

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The three SECTS in Rome could be identified by where where they bought their food in the Agora or marketplace: The Orphics were bean eaters, the phythagorans had similar diet and the Dionysiacs were meat eaters and wine drinkers.

You IDENTIFIED them by their diet--mostly taken in the food stalls--but they were all highly addicted to singing and using musical instruments to AROUSE their feelings which Paul OUTLAWS for the ekklesia or School of the Bible in Romans 15.

The phythagorans: They had a large number of superstitious abstinences and dos and don'ts. They abstained from beans, did not break bread, did not eat from a whole loaf, and did not eat the heart (of their sacrifices). Example superstitions, such as not touching a white cock, not stepping over a crossbar, not stirring a fire with an iron, not plucking a garland etc. are too tedious to list here but can be seen in Burnet (ibid., p. 96).

There is no doubt this concept was entirely religious and selective. They also viewed music and astronomy as sister sciences. They used music to purge the soul and medicine to purge the body. Such methods of purifying the soul were familiar in the Orgia of the Korybantes and thus explains the Pythagorean interest in Harmonics (Burnet, pp. 97-98).

This is the PHARMAKIA or SORCERY in Revelation 18 speaking of singers, speakers and instrument players. Apollo or Apollyon who USED the muses as his musical worship team was the father of harmony, twanging the bowstring to send forth singing arrows, homosexual worship, thieves and liars. He claimed that MUSIC purged the Spirit through EXTERNAL MEANS.

Of the Dionysius meat eaters and wine drinkers.

Instruments, especially flutes and drums, were used to induce ecstasy, or frenzy, in the worshippers of certain deities. The devotees of Thracian Dionysus (Bacchus) engaged in orgies at night. Members of the society were seized with a divine madness as they danced to the music and would seize an animal who was believed to be the incarnation of the god, tear the body limb from limb, and eat it on the spot. By this sacred communion theyhoped to attain union with their god and themselves become Baccoi . There was a wave of Bacchic enthusiasm that swept Italy in 185 B.C. and created such a scandal that it was sternly repressed by the Roman senate." (Green, William M., The Church Fathers and Musical Instruments" unpublished paper, p. 32).

"Dionysus certainly roves more than the other gods; the traditional picture of him is not one of him sitting sedately on Olympus sipping nectar and listening to the Muses (9 females) sing.

Rather it is one of him roaming through the wilderness,
thrysus (a {shaking} reed bound with ivy and topped with a pine cone) in hand,

followed by bands of ecstatic women, his Bacchants, and spreading the art of cultivation of vines and of wine-making. Other gods may leave Olympus, but it is not habitual with them as it is with dionysus.

The CLERGY hoped that John the Baptist wore SOFT clothing but Jesus said he was not a SHAKEN REED: that is, he was not one of those homosexual, musical prophesiers who "bound the flesh and spirit together with homosexuality."

Here is a PICTURE of the Dionysiacs or "meat eaters and wine drinkers" Maybe this is a clue as to why they want to IMPOSE on decent people that which Paul outlawed in Romans 14 and Jesus outlawed when He cast out the musical minstrels like dung and consigned the "pipers, dancers and singers" to the MARKETPLACE:

This is why the hair stands up on the back of STRAIGHTS back and they FLEE Babylon. They may not realize that the MARK has been flashed but it is time for those with Spirit to not look back for their stolen property but run for their lives.

If Ronnie thinks Paul gave THESE people the permission to DOUBTFUL DISPUTE and bring on the REPROACHES he guards against then someone has a serious problem:

Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Psa. 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me

2781. cherpah, kher-paw´; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda:—rebuke, reproach(-fully), shame.

2778. haraph, khaw-raf´; a primitive root; to pull off, i.e. (by implication) to expose (as by stripping); specifically, to betroth (as if a surrender); figuratively, to carp at, i.e. defame; denominative (from 2779) to spend the winter:--betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.

There is doubt among early writers that Lucifer did Adam in by sodomy and promised to keep the same shameful act on Jesus. The literature and language of the Bible indicates that they MUSICALLY MOCKED Jesus to the Cross and sodomized Him.

The SELF pleasure specificially OUTLAWS all of the performing arts QUARANTINED to the marketplace which "create mental excitement" so that people can CARRY US AWAY which is the meaning of a HERETIC.

HERE IS WHAT IS OUTLAWED WHICH OUTLAWS RONNIE AND ALL OF HIS SHEPHERDING elders who, according to the Lynn Andersion DOGMA intends to "Strip the lambs of all of their secret thoughts

“Disputing” implies a questioning mind and suggests an arrogant attitude by those who assume they’re always right. Arguing with others in the body of Christ is disruptive. That’s why Paul spent the first part of chapter 2 on humility.

As alluded to above, in the NT, dialogismos is used mainly in an evil sense describing reasoning that is the outcome of self-will. Here it describes reasoning of the natural mind in independence of God. In (see note Romans 1:21) it denotes the false notions about God, entertained in opposition to the facts revealed concerning Him in nature. We see this in Matthew's use...

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts (dialogismos), murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (Mt 15:19-20)

More later but Paul is MARKING the people identified by their DIET in the marketplace as being EXCLUDED from the Ekklesia. The second major meaning of PSALLO identifies the polluted red rope used to DRIVE people from the Agora where the sold food, bodies, singing and playing instruments UP TO the PYNX (In Athens) to attend the EKKLESIA which was for VERBAL INSTRUCTION ONLY.

Therefore, as they usually TWIST Scripture, Romans 14-15 MARK Ronnie and his SHEPHERDING movement as NOT ABLE to participate up on the hill at the Ekklesia.

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Jun 2, 2008 4:35 AM

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at'a boy Ken

May 11 2008, 9:19 AM 

Ken: In this thread you did an excellence job of exposing the dark side of Ronnie Norman at First Colony, and the work of the other wolves feasting on the flock.
Charles: I hope Ken has helped you to wake up and try to stop Ronnie if you can. It sounds like he is to entrenched, your only option is to run.

To God be the Glory
Joe McKnight

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O. Chambers
(Login sb6783)


June 22 2012, 3:58 PM 

"Judge not, that you be not judged" (Matthew 7:1). Jesus's instructions with regard to judging others is very simply put, "DON'T." The average Christian is the most piercingly critical individual known. Criticism is one of the ordinary activities of people, but in the spiritual realm nothing is accomplished by it. The effect of criticism is the dividing up the strengths of the one being criticized.

The Holy Spirit is the only one in the proper position to criticize, and He alone is able to show what is wrong without hurting and wounding. It is impossible to enter into fellowship with God when you are in a critical mood. Criticism serves to make you harsh, vindictive, and cruel, and leaves you with the soothing and flattering idea that you are somehow superior to others. Jesus says that as His disciple you should cultivate a temperament that is never critical. This will not happen quickly, but must be developed over a span of time. You must constantly beware of anything that causes you to think of yourself as a superior person.

There is no escaping the penetrating search of my life by Jesus. If I see the little speck in your eye, it means that I have a plank in my own (see 7:3-5). Every wrong thing that I see in you, God finds in me. Every time I judge, I condemn myself (See Romans 2:17-24). Stop having a measuring stick for other people. There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every peron's situation. The first thing God does is to give us a thorough spiritual cleaning. After that, there is no possibility of pride remaining in us. I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


June 22 2012, 7:49 PM 

Congratulations, most of us have not reached that level yet.

Are we to understand that your judgment is that no one should post the Biblical text to refute those who intentionally lie, cheat and steal the church house of widows and honest workers so that he can have the joy of worshiping (giving heed) to people who violate the commanded resource--that which is written for our learning--and deny all of the Bible which commands that we SPEAK that Word of Christ so that we can edify or EDUCATE people with the free water of the word?

1Cor. 14:9 So likewise ye,
.....except ye utter by the tongue
.....words easy to be understood, shall it be known what is spoken?
.....for ye shall speak into the air.

sermo , nis, m. 2. sero, qs. serta, conserta oratio, I. a speaking or talking with any one; talk, conversation, discourse: Of prose as opposed to poetry:

On the other hand, those who SPEAK into the air are identified by the word:

1. To speak out, to say, tell, talk about, mention, utter, name:
quas tu mulieres quos tu parasitos loquere,mollia discordi strepitu virgulta loquuntur, make womanish, render effeminate as a term of reproach, a woman, i. e. a coward, poltroon:

There is a lot of laughing at the persona of the new rhetoricians and "musical worship ministers" (a blasphemy of the Spirit OF Christ in theprophets)

All religious musicians were called PARASITES: That's what Christ said in the prophets of the Scribes and Pharisees. Jesus called them hypocrites which in Ezekiel 33 names self-preachers, singers and instrument players. Why would that be judgmental?

parastus literallly one who eats with another; hence,
Hence, parasitus Phoebi, a player, actor
II. In partic., in a bad sense, one who, by flattery and buffoonery, manages to live at another's expense, a sponger, toad-eater, parasite

Since there is no role or dole for preachers who attempt to collect people rather than just preaching the gospel AS IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT, wouldn't you say that one who deliberately chases away the lambs so that he can exult in what has always been an evil persona is a PARASITE.

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O. Chambers
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June 23 2012, 3:42 PM 

Yes, JESUS has that right to judge, I don't. Jesus has the right to call people hypocrites, vipers, etc., because he knows EVERY detail of every person's heart. He never gave me that ability nor gave me that job to do. We can warn people OUT OF LOVE, what the Bible teaches, but God is ultimately going to make the decision on someone's eternal destiny. I do not see a spirit of love toward brethren on this site. It is hateful, name-calling, condemning, and frankly un-Christ-like. When someone is called a "false-teacher" it should be done in tears and regret and with a humble, God-fearing attitude. I don't need to quote scripture, you know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry, but I do not believe Jesus came to establish a "system" like this. "While I was STILL a sinner, he died for me!" Now that I am his child, he is not so quick to write me off as people seem to be on here. How can someone say, 'ad a boy' to these heartbreaking things, like we get some kind of sick pleasure out of condemning. What's wrong with us? WE need to wake up and repent for ungodly things coming out of our mouths. I pray God will have mercy on all of us.

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Kenneth Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


June 23 2012, 3:58 PM 

I don't have the slightest interest in "what's in their heart" when their hands are swift to evil. Yes, we are to judge vipers and resist them. Here is the direct command:

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season,
.....out of season; reprove, rebuke,
.....exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Preach eleminates all of the hypocritic arts and crafts including inventing your own songs and sermons:

kruss , Att. kruk-tt , Dor. ka_russ : to be a herald, officiate as herald

prae-dco B 3. to preach the gospel (eccl. Lat.): evangelium, Vulg. Matt. 4, 23: baptismum, id. Marc. 1, 4; absol., id. Matt. 4, 17 et saep

Greek Reprove:
Elegkh , Od.21.424, disgrace, put to shame, muthon e. treat a speech with contempt, Il.9.522; e. tina put one to shame, Od. 21.424.
II. cross-examine, question, Hdt.2.115, Pl.Ap.18d, c. acc. et inf., accuse one of doing, E.Alc.1058:Pass., to be convicted, Hdt.1.24,117;
2. test, bring to the proof, andrn aretan pagkrats elegkhei alatheia
4. refute, confute, tina or ti, Pl.Grg.470c, al., D.28.2, Luc.Nigr.4:Pass., Pl.Tht.162a; khrusos klidas elegkhei proves that they avail not,
b. put right, correct, prove by a reductio ad impossibile,
5. get the better of, stratian kutati e. Pi.P.11.49, cf. D.P.750, Him.Or.1.16.
6. expose, tina lrounta Pl.Tht.171d, cf. X.Mem.1.7.2, M.Ant.1.17; betray a weakness, Democr.222.
7. decide a dispute, ana meson tn duo LXX Ge. 31.37.

Judging is IMPOSING something onto people and telling them to "get over it or get out." Remember that PREACHER is not included in Ephesians 4 and the teachers of the flock are the elders as pastor-teachers.

There is no DOLE for a preacher who breaks other people's hearts so he can get aroused over effeminate praise teams. Corrupting the word is "selling learning at retail" meaning adultery.

Time is short: don't turn coward. The just love or judging mantra is really psychological violence trying deny everyone's right to GO into all the world beginning at First Colony.

I have begun a response to another challenge that 1 Corinthians 14 may permit music.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point. Paul's warning is the ANTITHESIS to the pagan worship which is absolute marked by all word definitions and observation of effeminate or worse people who are fulfilling Revelation 17-18.

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June 24 2012, 10:30 AM 

Which would we be? This reminds me of:

I thank you God that I am not other men. I sing a cappella, attend church Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and Wednesday night. I take the Lord's Supper every Sunday.

Have mercy on me God, a sinner.

You see, God is concerned about what is in a person's heart. I pray God will open your eyes to the truth.

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Ken Sublett
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Review of Norman's Sermon on Romans 14. Sad.

May 11 2008, 10:43 PM 

With all due respect I can find no evidence that most preachers using Romans 14 and STRETCHING it have any knowledge about the background to the conflict between the church and the CULTURE." Certain MORAL practices such as one's DIET which distinguished them in the marketplace and their observance of certain days did not disqualify them from friendship and ekklesia (church) attendance. After all, a true Church of Christ is an ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--only--and with the Campbells this narrow definition allowed people of all PREFERENCES to attend.

However, beyond the MORAL and ETHICAL preferences, all of the sects in Rome were superstitious and highly addicted to "worship" where female (or effeminate) musicians aroused themselves and the "audience" to such a high pitch of sexual impulses" that it contributed to the destruction of society: this led the Roman Government to restrict the size of the assemblies and to daylight hours. They sold this musical enchantment John called sorcery as proof that they deserved the pay for bringing the gods down.

None of the worship PREFERENCES were allowed to "open a peep" when they came to the ekklesia for instruction in the Bible in order to make their weak faith stronger. To think that Romans 14 is the authority to DESTROY the peace and let the DOUBTFUL DISPUTERS take over the church seems truly beyond redemption.

After listening to Ronnie Norman's sermon I have posted a further review of Romans 14 to include some background.>

Rather than accepting the assistance of the musical minstrel PREFERENCE He tossed them out "more or less violently" as one ejects dung. He consigned these same Dionysiacs part of the Abomination of Desolation as pipers, singers and dancers BACK to the marketplace where all pollutions belonged. The claim to be Market Driving is troubling. I will clean up these notes in time but I just heard the sermon yesterday.

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Jun 2, 2008 4:29 AM

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Dr. Stanley Cook
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Romans 14

May 12 2008, 3:11 PM 


You continue to violate Paul's command about not judging other believers. For you to continually take worship that helps people in this day and time draw closer to God and twist it into something sexual and perverted, you just reveal your own perverse thinking. Your fruits reveal that you do not have the Spirit of Christ. Only one whose mind is carnal could take something as inspiring as a worship team singing "Our God Is An Awesome God" and see something sexual in it. You may not realize it, but every time you post one of your lengthy discourses on how "contemporary worship" is something sexual in nature, most objective readers can clearly see how much fleshly minded you are. I'm surprised you don't have a link to Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist on here, because it seems you have some things in common with him. Do you have any idea how many people view this site as spiritual pornography?

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Re: Romans 14

May 12 2008, 9:21 PM 

Looks like you know a lot about the subject of judging people! Do you know anything about the subject of loving people?

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Ken Sublett
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They why are YOU DOING what Paul identifies as OUTLAWED.

May 17 2008, 11:11 PM 

The only way to JUDGE people is to actively pass sentence on them: these false teachers do the JUDGING that what they hallucinate TRUMPS all of the Bible and known history. Lying cannot be excused by whining "you're another one." Peter warned you that evil people can PERVERT Paul's writings to their own destruction. I have told you the truth and you will find no Biblical or historical evidence that pagan religious musicians performed "priestly duties" and were always perverts. To their credit, not in the VILEST pagan temple could singers or musicians enter into the Holy Place (type of the church) in 2 Chronicles 29 which they lie about EVEN TO CLEAN OUT GARBAGE left over from pagan musical worship INSIDE of the closed spaces which is THE Abomination of Desolation.

Paul, like Jesus defined two venues: the MARKETPLACE where you might be shunned based on the food stalls. Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers along with all of the perverted religions to the marketplace. And he cast out the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG because they performed ONLY in the marketplaces and NEVER in the ekklesia or church. Flute-girl and prostitute is synonyms.

The ekklesia is DEFINED as for VERBAL instruction ONLY. Poetry and music is EXCLUDED by the word SPEAK because poets and musicians were RESTRICTED to writing MYTHS and never TRUE FACTS. You have fallen into what I accuse you of when you WORSHIP the team singing about a AWESOME God when it is AWEFUL GOD who intends to burn up all of the dogs and sorcerers. A TRUE church would let some manly person teach about an AWEFUL GOD who abandoned musical idolaters without blinking. Paul OUTLAWED discoursing anything doubtful from the "made up" poets and musicians.

Assuredly the Mother of Harlots using speakers, singers and instrumentalists as SORCERERS is an AWESOME GODDESS. But MY God is an AWFUL GOD who will burn you to a crisp for such a perverted approach. You just never even in vile paganism do THAT to a patriarchal god.>

The priests were Khana-Baals. The end-time restoration of the Babylonian religion explains why the clergy are CONSUMING THEIR OWN flock as God pours out His wrath. They try to destroy the SEED OF CHRIST and SOW THE SEED OF THE SERPENT. See Hislop on the AWESOME cannabal eaters of FRUITS.>

The history of S.U.N. worship now being urged to replace S.O.N. is the MARK and all of those "agents" were marked as sexually confused.

The Grand Inquisitor, Fyodor Dostoyevsky>

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Jun 2, 2008 4:33 AM

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Ken Sublett
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Ronnie Norman: Matthew 7 and NOT JUDGING.

May 21 2008, 2:36 PM 

Ronnie Norman WARNS about NOT JUDGING but the same PERSONA of the hypocrites Jesus warns against is clear to anyone who can read the whole chapter in context.

JUDGE not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1. Ronnie Norman of First Colony Church of Christ is manipulating a Church of Christ into using instrumental music. He will use Old Testament "snippets" which speak if musical instruments to claim that God COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and consistent with those who went before him claim that we would be DISOBEDIENT if we did not use instruments. However, all of the Old Testament mention of instruments identify the serpent in the garden of Eden as a Musical Enchater(ess), Lucifer called that "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden, musical loss of grace at Mount Sinai, IMPOSED animal slaughter with exorcism noise--never called music, panic-driving warrior Levites, prostitutes and Sodomites.

In last week's sermon:

Ronnie speaks of a non-chronological Old Testament and defines the different genres of literature. However, in ALL of those types we see warrior instruments as part of a Gentile-like temple as a curse and MOST of the Prophets--speaking by the Spirit OF Christ--radically condemning instruments as the MARK of people who had refused to listen to the Word and therefore went into captivity. As Ronnie Norman says that Nehemiah should be the last book in the Old Testament, it is interesting that he denies that the King-Clergy-Temple system was by God's command but was imposed because of their sins. He concludes that they were all robbers and PARASITES who stole their inheritance.

Ronnie claims to "Know the Bible pretty well" and claims the Holy Spirit as revealing truth in the black text on white paper and it seems like the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) is often tardy in revealing the coded message. This is consistent with others who have IMPOSED musical instruments claiming visions, audible voices or the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They implicate the Spirit of Christ in lying about all of the proof texts.

The end of the sermon praises the ministry staff by saying that they had studied Matthew 7 about DO NOT JUDGE. I would guess that enough deliberate discord has been sown that people are judging his Holy Spirit revelation as NOT the fact. Therefore, here are some rough notes to prove that this NOT JUDGING points directly to the SECTARIANS as Scribes and Pharisees: he calls THEM hypocrites and Jesus will MARK them as hypocrites by OUTING performance speakers, singers and instrument players. Jesus identified Ezekiel as being seen as NOTHING MORE than perverted performers for a wage.

If I planned to deliberately lie, as did his misleaders, about the Bible and claiming that he is led by the Holy Spirit, as they did, is well beyond redemption.

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Ronnie Norman: Matthew 7 and Non Judging

May 22 2008, 12:16 AM 

I studied this issue in some detail 24 years ago and reached what I believed to be a sound resolution. I am not professionally trained as a theologian, so that conclusion was based on a reading of readily available English translations of the Bible, specifically the Revised Standard Version, New Amereican Standard Bible, and New International Version, supplemented by some of the early debates on the subject among restoration movement leaders and several other sources. I realized that my conclusions differed from some people whose opinions I valued and respected and who had devoted more time to a study of the issue than had I. I knew that my conclusions were not infallible, but I also recognized that many men with more training and blessed with greater native intelligence and a more spiritual inclination than I differed among themselves on the issue. Those were men who had unquestionable respect for the scriptures and a love for the Lord. That recognition reaffirmed my conclusion that the issue was not as clearly addressed in the New Testament as we would have liked. I believe that God knows how to write a rule book, as evidenced by the specificity of Leviticus, and that his New Testament followers did not deliberately seek to hide the truth from we later followers. So, my conclusion was that the issue was worhty of debate and discussion, but that the discussion should properly be viewed as an inhouse debate among fellow believers, not an argument between sons of God and sons of Satan. I beleived then, and do now, that the Spirit that authored Leviticus would not leave us with any unclarity on a "salvation issue."

I visited this site at the suggestion of someone close to me to see if there were some aspects of the issue being raised that I had not considered 24 years ago and that I should think about. I was disappointed by much of what I read, which seemed to cross the line from good faith debate to anger and hatred. I believe the writers are all men of faith who seek the truth, but the tone of the writings does not seem to be reasonably calculated to either convince those of a different opinion or to draw anyone to Christ. I for one would appreciate a rational discussion of the issue that is based upon a reading of the scriptures as preserved in the English language. I am not comfortable placing my faith in any one man's interpretation of the Greek, because I have read different interpetations of the most applicable texts by men who had significant training in Biblical languages. Since I do not have training in the Biblical languages and have no opportunity to acquire that training from anyone who spoke it or wrote it during the time of Christ and his apostles, I am more comfortable accepting definitions that have been vetted by many scholars of different backgrounds, such as contained in the versions mentioned above.

I appreciate you providing this forum for discussion and I will visit this site again to see if the discussion has progressed in a way that will enlighten me to mistakes in my reasoning or that will raise concerns that I did not think about years ago. However, if the discussion continues to move in the direction of hatred and villification, I believe that the opportunity for members to discuss current issues afforded by this forum will be wasted and will not serve to enlighten or educate any interested party but will merely become another avenue to express anger and bitterness.

My daughter tells me that I cannot speak without sounding like I am lecturing, so I apologize if this sounds like a lecture. I simply believe that the "unity" movement that is and was the American Restoration Movement has witnesses so much strife and discord in the last 110 years that it has lost much of its ability to spread the truth of the Gospel. It would be a pleasant change to see the swords laid down when we enter the temple and a discussion held without name calling, condemnation of motivaions, or immediate threats of splitting congregations. Our movement has not recovered its vitality from the early blood letting. I hope and pray that the manner in which we resolve our inhouse disputes may become a witness to the world around us of the Spirit of Truth and Grace that is so clearly demonstrated in the scriptures. Thank you for the opportunity to express my concern.

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Matthew 7 and NOT JUDGING.

May 22 2008, 11:46 AM 

Ken has deliberately misled this audience about Ronnie's sermon last Sunday (May 18, 2008). I was there at 2 of the three services (including the one that was recorded). Ronnie's sermon was NOT on Matthew 7. PERIOD. His sermon was on reading the Bible every day, relying only on the Bible for God's guidance, and what can happen when one does not rely only on God's written word. The sermon context and theme was that we have to not only know the Bible through reading it every day, we have to live what we read every day. As an example of reading and studying the Bible every day, Ronnie mentioned the staff has a daily Bible study including memory work. Friday's assignment was Matthew 7. That is the context of how Matthew 7 was included in the sermon. Do not let Ken mislead you. He does not know Ronnie, he does not know the good Godly men that our elders, he does not know our members, and he does not know the Fruit of the Holy Sprit that is seen in the lives of First Colony Church of Christ members and leaders. And he cannot even listen to a recorded sermon and give you accurate information.

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