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Ken Sublett
(no login)
69.19.14.17

Re: First Colony Church of Christ annouces Instramental music for 3rd service

May 22 2008, 5:40 PM 

There is no attempt at good faith debate: the poster claims that they are godly men led by the Holy Spirit. I deny that because the NAME of the Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ the righteous." He cast out the musical minstrels "like dung" or like an actor is EXPLODED from the stage. He marked the MEN of that age as CHILDREN piping hoping to get others to sing and dance. He consigned them to the MARKETPLACE where Paul consigned the "diversities" of the three sects in Rome. It was prophesied and undoubtedly fulfilled that Jesus was musically mocked right up to the cross. Godly men simply do not let themselves be led into the deliberate sowing of discord and using what I AM CERTAIN is lying about every mention of an instrument and DRAGGING the flock back under the wolves of the cursed sacrificial system.

I see that the sermons have been BLOCKED but I can supply the rebuttal without hearing a word Ronnie intends to say. Because he has launched out on an evil trajectory, past events show that he will continue and make allowances for the deliberate discord in order to get his way. As in other events which I am aware of there is an ELDERESS at the helm.

I know the play book for all of the DIVERSIONS to musical instruments. We began by supplying some Biblical background and suggesting that Ronnie has never read the context of the examples he is going to use. These are all from the NACC operatives and there is nothing new since O.E.Payne's list of proof for the word PSALLO.

Because he did not LAY OUT the Rick Atchley material nor continue the series about, it seems that Ronnie needed to defend his credentials. Or maybe someone set him straight that neither he nor the elders have the authority to drive out the owners who have INVESTED in what they thought was a Church of Christ.

I don't see why anyone needs to consider it not "tender" enough to point out that Matthew utterly repudiates exactly what Ronnie is trying to do. If consistent with the other events the elders have been replaced by SHEPHERDS ready to lay on the same musical burden Jesus died to remove.

I felt compelled to supply some clear definitions of words in Matthew 7 and point out that Jesus was pointing to the Scribes and Pharisees. Because only those opposing him are charged with PASSING JUDGMENT I "feel" that there will--as usual--follow a Hegelian effort to silence sincere opposition by defining it as passing judgment. I am guessing but that is the usual PATTERNISM and part of navigating the winds of change: another slap at perverse performances in Ephesians 4 which LIMITES the role of the elder as the SOLE Pastor-Teacher of the flock: they are not to entertain the goats.

The "genre" concept should be explained to prove that there is no type of literature, in or our of chronological order which does not connect the musical instrument in a religious sense to Satan, making war, animal slaughter exorcism (which God DID NOT command), prostitutes or Sodomites. Even at bear bones the Bible being NOT METRICAL is one of those absolutes to MARK the "destruction of patriarchal religion by small acts of treachery."

Explaining Niceta Markus notes:

Or lyric poetry, which requires not a reader, but a chorus and a harp-accompaniment? They will respond that in these instances recitation has been established by custom.

In fact, behind the criticisms of the epic recital often lie issues about the performance of gender and social status.

In that regard, epic's position is parallel to that of rhetoric. Beginning with Aristotle's Rhetorica (1404a), critics of rhetorical performance have ascribed to lively delivery the same effect as that of acting. There is a persistent association between theatrics, bad rhetoric and effeminacy.


That is why Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites by pointing to rhetoricians, singers and instrument players.

His testimony is important as it formulates general expectations about epic performance while at the same time shows that epic can always slide into an effeminate mode of presentation.

Plato identified drama and music as demanding an effeminate style and the danger existed of "gender bleed" so that people BECAME what they performed. Aldus Huxley quoted by Lynn Anderson calls it "spiritual masturbation" and the Vineyard (aka wineskins) identifies it as seeking a sexual-like climax with the spirit. THAT is why masses flee.

On the other hand, God is a FATHER and not a mother and His WORD is a Son and not a daughter: you do not make music to a MALE god.

Epic's social image as a genre that glorifies male heroism has to be consistent with its mode of performance.

None of the Bible is metrical and cannot be sung tunefully even if your life depended on it. However, most people deliberately violate the direct command to use "that which is written with one MIND and one MOUTH."

For Dionysius Thrax, the voice pitched to perform elegy or lyric is inappropriate because of the incongruity it creates between the epic content and its performance.

"We shut ourselves up and write something grand--sometimes in verse, sometimes in prose--something that will take a vast amount of breath to pant out. This stuff you will some day read aloud to the public, combed, with a new toga, all in white, even with a birthday sardonyx gem on your finger; you shall read from a high chair having first lubricated your throat with a delicate wash, with an effeminate leer in your eye.


The Plague stopping animal slaughter by Hezekiah is what Rick Atchley etal use to say that GOD COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and WE SHOULD NOT BE DISOBEDIENT. This is the latest ploy of the NACC to label those who will not AFFIRM that they are CORRECT as ANTI-instrumental. The use of this new antiism is all of the authority you need to TAKE THEM DOWN by foul or fair. I can think of nothing more violent than a group of men closeting themselves and deciding to open the gate to the wolves.

This PROOF proves with ALL of the "proof texts" that it was David who commanded the INSTRUMENTAL part always under the king and COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY.




Payne insists that the Hebrew of 1 Chronicles 25:1 unambiguously identifies these leaders as military commanders, an interpretation favoured by several Bible translations. (Payne, p 423-4; NASB, NIV, NKJV, NRSV, Jerusalem Bible) If military commanders had a particular interest in the appointment of musicians, it suggests a strong link between music and warfare.

No Bible reader could reach any other conclusion and that proves that the shepherds are making war on the flock. If they THINK that the Holy Spirit is giving them DIRECT GUIDANCE then they need to back off and understand that the "spirit" is NOT a holy spirit.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 72.154.208.112 on Jun 2, 2008 4:02 AM


 
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Ray
(no login)
99.165.162.229

Correcting Ken again

May 23 2008, 12:21 PM 

First, an accurate comment by Ken when he said, "There is no attempt at good faith debate." Amen, Ken. You have yet to make any attempt at a good faith effort at debating the indisputable fact of God's good work among the good people and Godly leaders at First Colony Church of Christ.

Now for the corections.

Ken said, "I see that the sermons have been BLOCKED." This is UNTRUE. I just went to the website and listend to the May 18th sermon on-line. You are trying and failing again to deceive the body of Christ.

Ken said, "the poster claims that they are godly men led by the Holy Spirit. I deny that because the NAME of the Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ the righteous."" Again this is a deception, Ken, because you cannot deny the Godly character and Godly spirit of people you have never known. You do not know Ronnie. You do not know the Godly men who are the elders at First Colony. You do not know the Godly Christians who are the staff and other ministers. You do not know the Godly men who are the deacons. You do not know the Godly people who make up the membership at First Colony. You are not part of the body of Christ at First Colony Church of Christ. You are not of the flock of Jesus at First Colony Church of Christ. You do not know the fruit of the Holy Spirit that permeates and flows through First Colony Church of Christ.

You are an outsider.

Come down to First Colony Church of Christ. Sit down and talk with one of the elders. Get to know the body of Christ that meets at First Colony Church of Christ.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.154.244.244

Text of Email Sent to FCCC Members—Reviewed

May 23 2008, 3:27 PM 

This is copied from the response to the initial post of this thread:

    SUBJECT: Text of email sent to FCCC members [April 27 2008, 8:37 PM]

    This email was sent to the FCCC members mailing list on 4/25/08:

      This Sunday I Start A Two Week Series Called “Music Matters” And We Will Ask For Your Feedback Next Sunday, May 4… I plan to talk very openly about our musical heritage in the churches of Christ (much of which is so very positive). We’ll bathe this discussion in the light of scripture and ask for your prayers. Last summer & fall, all the elders began to study, reflect, discuss and pray about asking the church to consider offering well-done, tasteful, live instrumentation in one of our worship services and if so, when should that service be offered. By “well-done” I mean a service where the instrumentation complements rather than overwhelms and where participatory singing remains a high value.

      Bottom line: all the elders felt fine about allowing a service with live instrumentation (but only if well-done and only if a strong exclusively acappella presence continues in other services) and we’ve even talked about some possible specifics with one another and our deacons. However, the reality is we are not married to anything specific regarding dates and times. We have certainly given this some thought but nothing is set in stone. We are not even married to offering an instrumental service. But we are married to a clear and open process where we ask the entire church to consider the possibility of live instrumentation in one of the worship services of our church family. We ask you to consider this through a process of evaluating scripture, praying for God’s leading, considering one another, and providing feedback.

      Specifically, on Sunday May 4 we will ask you to fill out a brief survey telling us your perspectives regarding “church music”. That survey will also be available on-line and here’s what it will do: it will help us know more accurately where we are as a church family and what you think. When it comes to even considering any kind of transition in our church culture, our elders will move slowly & gently and will provide time for study, evaluation, prayer and dialog. I’m looking forward to presenting these two messages and I hope you’ll be encouraged.

    _________________________

Ray, you said, “Come down to First Colony Church of Christ. Sit down and talk with one of the elders. Get to know the body of Christ that meets at First Colony Church of Christ.”

Due to distance, perhaps, and travel expenses involved in such a visit, I find this to be an alternative, i.e., a review of the email that was sent to our brothers and sisters in Christ at First Colony. I say “brethren” because, in many cases of attempts to transition or change not only certain activities and practices but also beliefs and teachings of the church at a particular location, the “brethren” are NOT at fault. More often than not, members leave as a result of changes because of questionable decisions on the part of the leadership.

I’m interested in the details and have many questions related to the text of the email. But before we go any further, I would like for you to take time to update us or educate us as to what has happened since the time that the message was sent to the members. It’s been a few weeks since, and I feel that you now have some valuable information regarding the results of the “brief survey.” It would be of tremendous help, if you could provide the contents of the brief survey.

Thanks!

Donnie

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
69.19.14.24

Re: Text of Email Sent to FCCC Members—Reviewed

May 23 2008, 6:58 PM 

The podcast is available again.

The point was that the "leaders" made the decision to sow musical discord WITHOUT any debate. The survey as simple simons know is to lead you into accepting the preordained outcome. They do not intend to entertain any DEBATE and one suspects that their agent is pushing the standard fodder to disqualify one from knowing what the Bible universally says about "instruments" UNLESS they "know the heart" of those who are Purpose Driven to lie about all of the Bible. Otherwise, the self proclained scholar would debate the issue here. This forum speaks for those in that church who know with certainty that they had better not question the shepherds about the wolves slinking around. I deny that they are godly men because they would never agree to be SHEPHERDS of a Shepherding Scheme to make cultic control better. It is not remotely possible that they are both APT and ready to impose what all of church scholarship rejects.

There is NOTHING in the heart of elders undoubtedly under bondage to one CLAIMING Biblical authority which can TRUMP the clear Biblical commands. In Amos, they could not use women and music in their worship AS LONG as they had a "good mental attitude" any more than a man and his son could USE the same temple prostitute if they had a SPIRITUAL HEART.

The BIG proof text that God COMMANDED US TO DO INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE (whaever that be) is 2 Chronicles 29 and "We should not be disobedient" means that it is now SINFUL if you do NOT use "machines for doing hard work" in the Church of Christ.

The previous table proves that they do not honestly read the passage which ALWAYS attributes the "musical" instruments to David. David was a king and kings were chosen to carry out the captivity and death sentence imposed BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

The people or congregation are NEVER the general population but the kingly-priestly operatives operating a NATIONAL system which God imposed when the ELDERS made the fatal flaw of hiring a SENIOR PASTOR. The Kings were not the worship leaders nor did they prescribe worship: they did what all pagan kings did. However, not in the vilest pagan temple could the military musicians or the priestly trumpet blowers enter into the Holy Places or "come NEAR" the sacred things. Therefore, any PATTERNISM would keep them outside in the parking lot.

2Chr. 7:4 Then the king and all the people offered sacrifices before the LORD.
2Chr. 7:5 And king Solomon offered a sacrifice
    of twenty and two thousand oxen, and
    an hundred and twenty thousand sheep:
    so the king and all the people dedicated the house of God.
2Chr. 7:6
And the priests waited on their offices:
    the Levites also with instruments of musick of the LORD,
    which David the king had made to praise the LORD,
    because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry;
and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.

SOUNDED DOES NOT MUSIC MAKE: never from Genesis to Revelation other than from Satan.

Even if you could find a DIRECT COMMANDE for the King and commanders of the army to USE the "levitical warrior musicians' to LEAD the worship--and you imposed it--you would be moving the group BACK beyond the cross and under a CURSED "national" or pagan sacrificial system. God never commanded sacrifices not "enjoyed them." Once they had fallen into the "worship of the starry host" God QUARANTINED them behind walls which EXCLUDED the common people.

There is nothing in the SCHOLARLY data base for training preachers which would hint that the best Bible or Hebrew or Greek person would know what is going on in the Bible. The "approach" is not able to read whole contexts within the long story line of the Old Testament. Rather, no one seems capable of being willing to put their SOULS on the crap table and demand that a thousand or so follow the leader, without lifting proof texts or even the raw ASSERTIONS that the verse says what is asserted. Because that is the SYSTEM you cannot depend on those prepared to pontificate for yout souls.

Again, I want to tell you that THERE IS NO LAW OF GIVING and those who are willing to gamble your soul on one throw of the dice need to KNOW that even if there was an OFFICE called preacher it is UNFUNDED. That makes its funding dishonest and the only way to keep the boat from sinking is to not PRETEND to go from begger to master just because people are so simple that they will give you both their coat and cloak. But, woe upon those who TAKE and then betray.

God sent me with all of the authority I need or this forum needs which never responds unless some lamb is being fleeced and dares to bleat. Why should the members have to find a forum.

 
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Ray
(no login)
80.13.160.104

Text of Email Sent to FCCC Members—Reviewed

May 24 2008, 1:32 PM 

Thank you for your note, Donnie.

One of the elders spoke to the deacons this week and said the survey results wi be released soon. Many members had questions, and the elders want to first answer every question as part of the survey results. I have been persoally called by one of the elders about my questions, and I have sat down and visited with another for about two hours.

My point to this forum is that Ken does not know what he is talking about when he attacks fellow believers whome he does not know and, by all indication, has no intention to get to know. Christ said we can know a person's charcter by their fruit. I have personally seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in these elders, in Ronnie, and in this Church. I have persobally seen God working through Ronnie, the elders, and many of the members at First Colony to turn hearts from serving self to serving Jesus and being baptised into His name. Ken has never taken the time to. He makes one misleading statement after another. I have no choice but to conclude that he is either lying, or he doesn't care to find out the truth.

I will share what I can when it is available.

 
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Josh
(no login)
216.39.201.59

To My Family at First Colony Church of Christ...

May 30 2008, 6:24 PM 

Let me encourage all of my FCCC family members to NOT send or post any more in-house information to this site (letters, e-mails, surveys, etc.) for 3 reasons:

1. It’s obvious that Ken and those who have an issue with our elders’ decision will not accept anything you have to say.

2. Rather, they will use what you pass along from our leaders to continue maligning the character of our Elders and gossiping about our church family.

3. Those letters are addressed to FCCC church members. If Ken and others wish to receive the information, then they are welcome place membership at FCCC. If they are (for whatever reason) unwilling to be a part of this body, then, frankly, they should not have a say in our church family’s business.

Some will suggest that this proves our church has something to hide. Not at all. Rather, it is clear that we will not be able to agree on this issue. While I wish we could agree to disagree, it is clear that continuing to debate or provide more FCCC in-house information will only allow mean-spirited individuals an excuse to continue their unfounded attacks on our church family.

TO FC MEMBERS & FAMILY MEMBERS: If you are an FC member or related an FC member and have questions or concerns, then please feel free to contact the church and they will be happy to talk with you or have an elder contact you personally. But please do not participate in maligning the church family of which you or one of your family members is a part. Again, the church's goal isn't to hide things, but to discuss them in a God-honoring fashion. Talk to the church, not about the church.

ONE LAST THING: Ken, while I look forward to giving you a hug in heaven, let me ask you a question. Why are you wasting your time with people like us who you obviously view as lost (and won’t change their position) instead of dedicating that energy to reaching out to those in YOUR community who don’t know Jesus and you can bless? You are obviously passionate about the Lord. Why not use that passion constructively?

I look forward to seeing you all at FCCC this Sunday morning as we worship the risen savior, Jesus Christ!

God Bless,

Josh

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
72.54.195.146

Letter from First Colony about the results of the Survey

June 1 2008, 1:41 PM 

Dear Member,

The elders appreciate our congregation’s response to the recent survey regarding the instrumental service your church leadership is exploring. As we mentioned earlier, this survey was not a “vote” but a simple means designed to provide some feedback. We would like to update you with the results of the survey which are as follows.


There were 752 responses to this group of questions:

1. My Preference is instrumental and I would attend the instrumental ervice-9.2%
2. I enjoy both a cappella and instrumental and would attend either.-53.6%
3. My preference is a cappella but I can allow an instrumental option for others.-28.4%
4. My choice is a cappella and I do not believe that an instrumental option should be allowed-8.8%

Not everyone indicated a time or start date preference, but of those 658 respondents who indicated a time preference, the survey reflected that if we were to have an instrumental service, 57.4% indicated that the IM service should be the 11:00 service. Also, of the 568 respondents that indicated a start date, 67.0% indicated the IM service should begin in the fall of 2008.

Your elders will now begin a period of prayer and contemplation, and we call upon you to also pray for the elders in making the best decision for our church family. We anticipate communicating more with you regarding this topic by late summer.

If you have not had a chance to hear the teachings of Ronnie Norman or Rick Atchley, then we ask you to call the church office and request these presentations. They will be mailed to you at no cost.

We thank you again for your good spirit, prayers and support. May our God continue to bless us as we aim to please Him in all things.

In Christ,

For your elders
Lacy Spears, Chairman

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
66.82.9.75

Re: First Colony Church of Christ annouces Instramental music for 3rd service

May 24 2008, 4:27 PM 

My point to this forum is that Ken does not know what he is talking about when he attacks fellow believers whome he does not know and, by all indication, has no intention to get to know. Christ said we can know a person's charcter by their fruit. I have personally seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in these elders, in Ronnie, and in this Church. I have persobally seen God working through Ronnie, the elders, and many of the members at First Colony to turn hearts from serving self to serving Jesus and being baptised into His name. Ken has never taken the time to. He makes one misleading statement after another. I have no choice but to conclude that he is either lying, or he doesn't care to find out the truth.

I pointed out that it is RONNIE who I am certain has bamboozled some elders who does not intend to DEBATE. As in all of the patternism of his small band of preachers he told you what you should believe BEFORE the survey was taken. Furthermore, elders do not get themselves into taking a poll when the Bible is filled and church history agrees that religious music is the MARK of no spiritual act or person in recorded history.

There is nothing you can see and no minds to be read which trumps the Bible and the planned deliberate sowing of discord. If Ronnie reads off the script of Rick he is spoon fed by the NACC who turned so many coats that they gave up the "unity forums" after 25 years of sowing discord. If you could CONVERT all of the people in Texas it would not change a dot or t of the Bible and all of church history and universally DIVISIVENESS by those who imposed music. You must not judge yourself by yourself. If Ronnie repeats Rick and the other PURPOSE DRIVEN SMALL TEAM then he is lying about every Biblical passage and church history. How could you support the deliberate sowing of discord to drive many owners (1/3 at Quail Springs) OUT of their church home and destroy families. Your ONLY part of God's plan is to PLANT and WATER and music has always been a legalistic way to speed up God's plans.







Tell people that Ken is a liar when he tells you that Jesus cast out the musical minstrels meaning "like dung" before he began His work.

Tell people that Ken lied when he quoted that Jesus called the MEN of that generation just CHILDREN piping in the marketplace trying to make people sing and dance?

Tell people that Ken is a liar for quoting John identifying as SORCERERS the end-time mother of harlots using "lusted after fruits" as rhetoricians, singers, instrument players and craftsmen meaning "theater builders and stage managers."

Then tell people why there is such a well-prepared "boiling the frog" lust to IMPOSE instruments on a church known NOT to have fallen into that trap for 2,000 years? Wouldn't your people have more credibility if they had NOT collected a flock as a Church of Christ and then turning it into a venue for what Jesus identified as hypocrites. Even now, wouldn't your protestations be more logical if they decided that they needed to leave WITHOUT taking the church with them.

I am sorry but the only way to read spirits is by their actions and they are absolutely misinformed or not spiritual. In any case, an elder HAS the duty NOT to take on what is now COMMAND AUTHORITY as brain surgeron without lots of training. I hope you will read the long material: when people squirt a drop of black acid into a glass of white milk you cannot restore it without LOTS of prayer and study. You cannot be an enabler without being guilty. I think the only thing the elders can do is to honorably resign and restudy: you need a preacher who does expository Bible study which will prevent you from being a mega church.

I am not a preacher and not on the dole so I have no conflict of interest other than to support those who have gone through an affliction of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS since the NACC using a few preachers decided that we should UNIFY by adding instruments or SHUT OUR MOUTHS about opposing it.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 72.154.208.112 on Jun 2, 2008 3:56 AM


 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Not defending friends as much as defending the truth and the Church

May 27 2008, 3:40 AM 

Ken,

You judge what you do not know. You judge what you only can guess at. You cannot comprehend that your arguments do not have support from the scriptures, and those you oppose know this. You cannot comprehend that good Christians and Godly men and leaders read the same scriptures and serve God in a righteous way that may differ from you. You cannot accept that you are wrong about many things at First Colony, even when one who knows the truth places the truth before you very eyes. There has been no poll at First Colony to determine what to do. There has been a survey to measure feedback from the congregation, and that feedback so far has been overwhelming supportive of the Godly men who lead First Colony.

You method of attack is the same at all the congregations you oppose. You iseargiments you write years ago and simply repackage them when you target a congregation to attack. You attack only the preacher by name because he is a "public" figure. The elders names are known but you do not attack them by name. Could it be that this is your slick way to avoid slander? You assume that all of these congregations you oppose is because of some smooth talikng preacher has led all of the elders and members astray.

And when you get tired of First Colony, you will turn your attention on another congregation to meddle with and attempt to sow division.

You are a sad person, and you are in a great need of mercy and grace.

You are in my prayers that God will soften your heart, forgive you for being a devisive person, and show you more mercy than you have ever shown congregations and preachers you oppose.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
66.82.9.100

Re: Not defending friends as much as defending the truth and the Church

May 27 2008, 5:32 PM 

Because I quote the Bible and universal Classical, Church Fathers, denominational scholars and the universal sowing of musical discord you will have to EXCUSE me if I do not spend man years digging it up all over again when some SILENCED member cries out for help. There is only a small band of the original intenders so my work has been limited EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been WORKING this diversion for more than a decade. A look-alike in Texas is under a lawsuit from a member demanding his contributions plus expenses back. I would think that any person who gave under the ploy of being A Church of Christ (defacto not instrumental) and then was forced to leave would be lining up for a class-action. However, I am sure that the expansion, finances and legal documents have been taken care of. I hear you doing psychological violence? No, no one you know has ever read the context or story line they are using to impose spiritual affliction on you. Sounds like you are going to let FRIENDSHIPS trump the BIBLE and the weeping widows who will be forced out into the cold.

Here is the end-time prophecy which is identical to the beginning time when "lucifer was the singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden:
    Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [seed pickers]

    And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

    Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

So, since that is what John promised you it seems like you are ready to put your sou on the preachers rigged crap table

Here is one I just did since part of the MANTRA is that the Church Fathers had no objections to the use of Instrumental music. That is strange because they all opposed it and linked it to the universal effeminate worship of Israel after they were abandoned to "worship like the starry hosts."

Here is what Arnobius wrote c 4th century. Because you will never find a single exception to what I have said, I would worry a whole lot that ready for Y2K a very small band of people had the DRIVEN PURPOSE to restructure all Churches of Christ.






I assure you that you will find NO exception: if you want to blame the SHOT person for bleeding on your DANCING SLIPPERS then that also is a BAD MARK. Why is it that I and ALL recorded history you or any scholar will ever find are WRONG and those with a conflict of interest are suddenly RIGHT. They will claim that as postmoderns they are, in the words of Shelly, "working out their own salvation" by taking liberties with the sifted Bible to write THEMSELVES into a more powerful than Jesus.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 72.154.208.112 on Jun 2, 2008 3:52 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
66.82.9.100

Review of First Sermon: 2 Chron 3

May 27 2008, 10:59 PM 

I got around to listening to Ronnie's first sermon where he gives some of his proof texts. The first part is a pretty judgmental putdown of why the Church of Christ DIVIDED and ADDED. It is a lack of Bible and Restoration history to assume that The Church of Christ was ever a PART of the Disciples denomination. Those who met and agreed to do some things together in 1932 included only those preachers represented. Any ability to work on things like missions was destroyed in 1848-49 when the Baptist "converts" began to build a denominational SOCIETY. The final blow was in 1959 when the Christian Churches began to DIVIDE their own congregations by imposing the ORGAN. At first only the ORGAN would be allowed to AID the singing much like a pitchpipe. Those stealing the church in Newbern, TN solemnly promised the Judge that it was ONLY and aid but the Judge saw through that. They further said that IF the organ (only the organ) was ever used AS WORSHIP then it would be sinful.

The Church of Christ denied the Disciples claim that they BELONGED to them in the 1906 census count. The Disciples already had a full blown TOP DOWN denomination defined and published (I have a copy of the goals c. 1908.

The Christian church Ronnie thinks we DIVIDED FROM did not sect out until the NACC was formed in 1927: they were still part of the DISCIPLES until from about the 1968 restructure to maybe 1971. That was when they began to claim that WE sected out of them and they began very divisive efforts to peel off a few dupes. They finally stopped their Unity Meetings after 25 years with utter failure to capture more than a handful of men already CONVERTED to go instrumental. Ronnie admits to the slow "boil the frog" by a long incubation period of instruments in other VENUES. If (the will) go instrumental they will go SLOW. That is the old gradualism they have conspired to use. IF they believed their own teaching they would NOT try to slip up on you.

I will review some other parts of his first musical sermon but I have put together some 2 Chronicles 5 which Ronnie and others use to show that God must have been in charismatic ecstasy when he heard those 120 horns all blown in unison and with ONE SOUND. One note doeth not music make. The KABOD or DARKNESS was proof that God would NO LONGER be available down on Zion around David's tent. The preacher problem is that bonded buddies pour out all of those tidbits without even caring about the message because there was no training in the Old Testament or any Bible beyond the "dry husk of the sweet onion."

Pity that someone with a teaching persona has wasted it on trying to drag you back under the curse of the Monarchy which God IMPOSED to carry out the captivity and death sentence.

This will show up on my pages early in the morning minus proof reading. And, you guessed it, when I quote the evidence it will look EXACTLY like it did refuting Milton Jones (stole my old church), Chris Seidman, Max Lucado, Rick Atchley, Mark Henderson and MOST of the Christian Church false teachers such as Tom Burges, David Faust and all of the others who REPEAT what O.E.Payne compiled about a century ago.

http://www.piney.com/2.Chronicles.5.html

Not to boast, but you will not find this information anywhere else: I have about 20 man years in it and I nor anyone else will find any religious MUSIC which is not the mark and cause of effeminacy. We have too much already.

 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Self-explanatory

May 29 2008, 3:52 AM 

"Not to boast, but you will not find this information anywhere else"

There is a reason why we will not find this information anywhere else.

 
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Rick
(no login)
208.180.101.172

Milton Jones

February 1 2009, 6:20 AM 

Can you please give ma any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.154.208.112

"Letter from First Colony about the results of the Survey"

June 2 2008, 3:41 AM 

Copied Post Submitted Above By:

    Anonymous
    72.54.195.146

    Message Title: Letter from First Colony about the results of the Survey
    Date: June 1 2008, 1:41 PM


      _________________________________

      Dear Member,

      The elders appreciate our congregation’s response to the recent survey regarding the instrumental service your church leadership is exploring. As we mentioned earlier, this survey was not a “vote” but a simple means designed to provide some feedback. We would like to update you with the results of the survey which are as follows.

      There were 752 responses to this group of questions:

      1. My Preference is instrumental and I would attend the instrumental service. - 9.2%
      2. I enjoy both a cappella and instrumental and would attend either. - 53.6%
      3. My preference is a cappella but I can allow an instrumental option for others. - 28.4%
      4. My choice is a cappella and I do not believe that an instrumental option should be allowed. - 8.8%

      Not everyone indicated a time or start date preference, but of those 658 respondents who indicated a time preference, the survey reflected that if we were to have an instrumental service, 57.4% indicated that the IM service should be the 11:00 service. Also, of the 568 respondents that indicated a start date, 67.0% indicated the IM service should begin in the fall of 2008.

      Your elders will now begin a period of prayer and contemplation, and we call upon you to also pray for the elders in making the best decision for our church family. We anticipate communicating more with you regarding this topic by late summer.

      If you have not had a chance to hear the teachings of Ronnie Norman or Rick Atchley, then we ask you to call the church office and request these presentations. They will be mailed to you at no cost.

      We thank you again for your good spirit, prayers and support. May our God continue to bless us as we aim to please Him in all things.

      In Christ,

      For your elders
      Lacy Spears, Chairman


      _________________________________

 
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Ken Subletts
(no login)
69.19.14.32

The meaning of PREDESTINATED.

June 2 2008, 10:36 AM 

You never do the "vote" until you have your conclusion guaranteed. We are not to worry too much, God gives us the right to rejoice when those who shed the blood of the Prophets (by the voice of the Spirit of Christ) as the "kings set over us" are God-sentenced to carry out their destruction to the beat of instrumental noises. The words of their mouth will burn them up.

We don't know who was qualified to vote but it looks like half didn't participate. The young probably gives them the authority to destroy the happiness of their parents while teling them "get over it or get out."





[Page adjusted]


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 72.150.107.147 on Jun 3, 2008 9:35 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
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66.82.9.100

Posted some Marks of the Beast

June 2 2008, 1:15 PM 

Lucifer (Zoe) is called the singing and harp playing prostitute. In the Gnostic literature which really begins in Babylon 3,000 years before Moses, ZOE is called the "Beast and female instructing principle."

The Mother Goddess is marked as a beast and SHE marks the "lusted after fruits" with the urge to expose themselves in the holy places where it is claimed that they can call down the gods: in paganism this was always for a "knowing" or sexual encounter with the gods. That is why originally females were happy to be musical "harem of the gods."

Only after David and the kingdom had been abandoned to worship the starry host did males begin to PERFORM religious music: among the Jews the psaltery marked the prostitute, the singing was falsetto and their style was alamoth or like the virgin girls.

In the end time the Mother of Harlots is well defined in the Classics and used by John to WARN that they should not TAKE THE MARK: The book of Enoch and other commentaries prove that when you have been MARKED by associating musical madness with the Holy Spirit you have fallen and you will never get back up. That is why CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE.

I have collected some ways you can see and hear the MARKS of those trying to "engrave" the music of the "holy whores" upon your spirit:

http://www.piney.com/Mark.Beast.Colony.html

The NACC use the writings of Plutarch to justify imposing instruments (machines) into peacable churches but ALL of thes proof texts are MARKED as perverted males:

Plutarch of Chaeronea held that the God of the Jews was none other than Dionysos. "First the time and character of the greatest, most sacred holiday of the Jews clearly befit Dionysos. When they celebrate their so-called Fast, at the height of the vintage, they set out tables of all sorts of fruit under tents and huts plaited for the most part of vines and ivy.

They call the first of the two days Tabernacles. A few days later they celebrate another festival, this time identified with Bacchos not through obscure hints but plainly called by his name, a festival that is a sort of 'Procession of Branches' or 'Thyrsos Procession' in which they enter the Temple each carrying a thyrsos.

What they do after entering we do not know, but it is probable that the rite is a Bacchic revelry, for in fact they use little trumpets to invoke their God as do the Argives at their Dionysia.

Others of them advance playing harps; these players are called in their language Levites, either from 'Lysios' or better, from 'Euois.'


Hislop and most scholars agree.

http://www.piney.com/His75.html

No wonder that it came at last to be firmly believed that the Messiah, on whom the hopes of the world depended, was Himself the "seed of the serpent"! This was manifestly the case in Greece; for the current story there came to be,

that the first Bacchus was brought forth in consequence of a connexion on the part of his mother with the father of the gods, in the form of a "speckled snake." *

* OVID, Metam. So deeply was the idea of "the seed of the serpent" being the great World-king imprinted (marked) on the Pagan mind, that when a man set up to be a god upon earth, it was held essential to establish his title to that character,

that he prove himself to be the "serpent's seed."

Thus, when Alexander the Great claimed divine honours, it is well known that his mother Olympias, declared that he was not sprung from King Philip, her husband, but from Jupiter, in the form of a serpent. In like manner, says the authoress of Rome in the 19th Century, the Roman emperor,

"Augustus, pretended that he was the son of Apollo, and that the god had assumed the form of a serpent for the purpose of giving him birth."


Maybe that is why the NACC appeal to Alexender to prove that psallo means to PLAY AN INSTRUMENT. Well, it does not it just meant to "pluck" and his father was disgusted that Alexander could PLUCK so skillfully knowing the eternal MARK of seducing a young man--a youth minister of the mother goddess.

That is why Jesus, John and Peter called them a RACE OF VIPERS or a CROOKED GENERATION.

Skolios A. curved, bent (opp. orthos, euthus) muthos
III. skolion, to, intestine, splanchana kai nephron kai skolion

Muthos used with tragoidia, mimesis, poetes etc. Latin fabula II. In partic. (freq. and class.), a fictitious narrative, a tale, story; 1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play;


Which is OUTLAWED for all TRUTH WRITERS.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.156.8.135

The Survey and the FCCC Website

June 4 2008, 1:29 PM 

This is my first time to access the First Colony Church’s website. And I think that the following observations are worth noting:

  • Featured on the home page is the following text: “AN INDEPENDENT, NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH.” While there’s nothing wrong with the text itself and with the word “independent” in the expression, I personally become suspicious in the context that churches of Christ are already autonomous and non-denominational. Rather than the church being described as a body of New Testament believers and as a body that belongs to Christ, the expression strongly suggests “open fellowship” with those of other faiths, as well “independence” and a not-so-desirable association with other congregations in our brotherhood.

  • The website lists 26 elders who have served each of the following years [ordered by seniority]:

      1987*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1991*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1991*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1991*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1992 . . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1996*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      2001 . . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      2001 . . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      2004 . . . . . 2005


    Does the asterisk (*) signify “retiring” or “being replaced”—does anyone know?

    Accordingly, “Ronnie Norman became an elder in 2004 [emph. d.c.]. He and his wife Martha have two grown children, Ronnie also serves as Senior Minister at First Colony....” Isn’t Ronnie Norman, with similar teachings to Rick Atchley’s regarding the use of inanimate, lifeless musical machines in the assembly, a controversial figure in the current scheme of things?

  • The congregation with that number of elders (26) appears to be large. (The Madison, TN congregation had 15 elders when there were 3000 in attendance regularly in the past.) When 18 of the 26 men [with the others being old-timers] have been designated as elders ONLY in the last 3 years, including Ronnie Norman, isn’t there in the history of this church something or things that may be contributing to the latest attempt at restructuring the body of Christ at this location? In addition, let’s take into consideration the Charismatic and culture-driven Church Growth Movements and their influences and effects in certain congregations in RECENT YEARS.

  • Just as the Baptist Church DOES NOT teach that being “buried with Christ in baptism” is a requisite to the forgiveness of sins and to being added to the Lord’s body, the church’s website appears to reflect the same belief:

      “We ask of our members only what scripture asks of church members: faith in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior, love for one another, a willingness to follow Christ’s teachings, and Christian baptism (Matthew 28:18-20). At First Colony, we practice baptism by immersion and if you have never been immersed in baptism as a believer before, you will get the opportunity to do so.” (Same teaching by Max Lucado of the Oak Hills Church [formerly “of Christ”]; cf. the OHC website.)

    Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.

Just thoughts and observations that may be taken into consideration as we further analyze the “expected” results of the survey as the one above.

Please NOTE that the above message is not intended to question the faith of our brothers and sisters in Christ at First Colony. Rather, it is an expression of our concerns whither the leaders are going with the attempt to tamper with or alter or improvise God’s directives for the church at First Colony.

 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

FCCC Website

June 5 2008, 7:27 AM 

Donnie, you have madequite a few erroneous assumptions about First Colony. Is it the Christ-like thing to make assumptions about what you have not asked? The answer is no, it is not the Christ-like thing to do. From the beginning of First Colony, it has been the goal to have approximately 1 elder per 100 members. Graned, there is not specific Biblial statement for this, it is not without Biblical example, e.g. the 100 sheep, the centurion.

Second, you erroneously stated, "Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural."

The message on the website on baptism is very clear and goes well beyond your error.

The FCCC website also states on baptism, "baptism is clearly commanded as part of the process of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. '...God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, ‘Brothers, what shall we do?’ Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:36-38"

The same explanation of baptism also states, "When one submits to be baptized as an expression of faith and out of love for God, God fully
and completely forgives that individual’s sins and adds that person to His church. The change in relationship with God does not come because we merit or deserve it. It is God’s power, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, that works the salvation of man. God only requires that we submit in trusting obedience. 'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.' Ephesians 2:8-9"

First Colony's teachings of baptism and its relation to faith, forgiveness of sins, becoming one with Christ is entirely consistent with both the scriptures and the Churches of Christ.

Nothing has been hidden or disguised, as you accuse. The leaders at First Colony and the website HAVE made the message plain and scriptural.

That is the problem with this slanderous forum - it makes accusations without seeking the whole truth, or getting to know at all those who are being accused.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
66.82.9.75

Re: First Colony Church of Christ annouces Instrumental music for 3rd service

June 5 2008, 1:28 PM 

"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." ~ J. Edgar Hoover

Shepherd means to "feed" the flock: Peter commanded that the elders are the only pastor-teachers. They are limited to "teach that which has been taught" and Jesus denied that even the apostles had command authority." Therefore, the elders have usurped the role of Jesus and the whole body.

Shepherding elders were chosen as a SEPARATE class and because the FLOW CHART has Ronnie Norman as facilitator of change for a long period and the LAUNCH date was at a Shepherding conference as Lynn Anderson as the Chief Shephard, I think you have something going on more like a cult than an ekklesia or school of the Bible. The ekklesia like the Synagogue met weekly for BIBLE STUDY ONLY and there is no MANDATE to go beyond that and ASSUREDLY no funding because there is NO Law of Laying By in Store: that would be, like music, rank legalism and attempt to silence the LAMBS.

Here is the Shepherding Movement as the ONLY rational for Shepherding Elders.

1. Have you been with a woman this week in such a way that was inappropriate
or could have looked to others that you were using poor judgment?
2. Have you been completely above reproach in all your financial dealings this week?
3. Have you exposed yourself to any explicit material this week?
4. Have you spent daily time in prayer and in the Scriptures this week?
5. Have you fulfilled the mandate of your calling this week?
6. Have you taken time off to be with your family this week?
7. Have you just lied to me?


Shepherding leads the flock to FOOD ONLY: they protect the flock from dogs and wolves (Acts 20 the mark of the Cynics). Music makes the "sounds of rushing waters" and that would be an intention to frighten or intimidate the flock: defining why all music terms speak of inducing the "spiritual anxiety" Jesus died to remove or the "self-pleasure" Paul outlawed for what he always calls a SYNAGOGUE; The synagogue outlawed both vocal and instrumental rejoicing. Music is the mark of SILENCING THE LAMB OF GOD which is proven by the nature of the sermons and both resource and presentaiton method of music.

MYTHS means "to shut the EYES and MOUTH." Music (noise) in all sacrificial systems intended to SHUT THE MOUTH of the victime while they perpetuated VIOLENCE against the innocent lusting that the SCAPE GOAT would carry away their own sins.

Acts 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this,
He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
and like a lamb dumb before his shearer,
so opened he not his mouth:


He WAS and IS our scapegoat: THAT IS THE MARK OF THE MUSICIANS.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Is. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed.


Wounded is

H2490 châlal
khaw-lal' (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485 ) to play (the flute): defile,break, defile, X eat (as common things), take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.




This is applied to LUCIFER being cast as profane out of heaven. She/he/it was in the garden of Eden as a singing and harp playing prostitute. As connected to Tyre, she used music to steal other people's property and to 'steal souls' into slaver.

Is. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth. Isa 53:7


A version of Psalm 41 and others understood the language. That Judas would not triumph over Jesus means that his attempt would fail at "making vocal and instrumental rejoicing" always a warrior concept intending to intimidate the enemy. The IMPOSING of instrumental music as First Colony is a "spite of hell" intention to TRIUMPH OVER the masses of the church which has repudiated him and the other small band of deliberate discorders. Like Judas, the triumph will be short and the only redemption is at the end of a rope until your body rots and splashes on the ground. The Judas Bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments: always marking the music and the reproaches against Jesus which meant to EXPOSE HIS PUDENDA.



DSS: "In the Hymns of Thanksgiving in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
we are confronted with a number of references to music which are,
as in some Pauline passages, mere rhetorical device;

They roared abuse of me
To the Play of the lyre
And in mocking-songs
uttered their sneers (ch. V)


And Jeremiah showed:

.\I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation. Jer 15:17

Zaam (h2195) zah'-am; from 2194; strictly froth at the mouth, i. e. (fig.) fury (espec. of God's displeasure with sin): - angry, indignation, rage.

Alaz (h5937) aw-laz'; a prim. root; to jump for joy, i. e. exult: - be joyful, rejoice, triumph.


I assure you that NOTHING causes you to be MARKED than imposing music when it is radically repudiated from genesis to Revelation" and in the literature. John says that the Mother of Harlots has taken over (look to see who is rope puller) who uses "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers, musicians and techne (theater builders and stage managers) whom John calls SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world. How do you intend to TRUMP 100% of the Bible and church history and AFFIRM a few "fallen angels" who magically showed up in all Bible based churches working lying wonders.

If the Church of Christ as the ELECT (invited and added to the ekklesia as school of the Bible ONLY) would ALMOST fall under the huge effort, I am encouraged that I think you have about 7 out of over the intended `13,000 congregations which REFUSED to be marked.

The Books of Adam and Eve tell the same story as The Book of Enoch which is quoted at least 128 times in the New Testament specificially MARKING a musical sect as the ones for whom God will come in judgement: the MARK and CAUSE of the fall was into Satan's Music and perversion. Religious music has always been a real or virtual attack.

http://www.piney.com/MuGenun2.html

Here is the GRADUAL process even as Ronnie has confessed to a slow boil by using instruments in "other venues" and conditioning the CHILDREN to go all the way: 20 years will get the job done. Of the Children of Seth:

They heard
They wondered
They came
They stood
They looked
The were gradually won over
Genun was given power to accelerate the seduction process
The Sethites continued a divided allegiance
They fell into temptation
They began to hallucinate
They lusted
They fell from grace
They tried to repent but could not
They were sentenced to captivity
They served as a warning or pattern.

If you ENABLE the MARKING you are a MARKER. Sorry, but there is not a shred of information which refutes that so people have taken ZERO and perverted it into the APPROVED TEXT. Doesn't that make you shudder. The persona of the Sunday sermon "dazzled" me.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
66.82.9.75

Revelation 5: literal harps are the MARK of Satan!

June 5 2008, 10:22 PM 

I have posted a quick review of Revelation 5 which is used by Ronnie Norman and a few others to justify an intention to introduce musical machines knowing that it will sow discord and offend many of these "little ones" who thought that they were joint owners.

http://www.piney.com/Revelation.5.html

Just a quick study by anyone interested in the MESSAGE of Revelation 5 would easily understand that it is repudiating literal musical instruments.

The problem: no human has the ability to unloose the SEALS put on all of God's word to keep the unworthy from understanding. That being the case they easily MARK themselves as the enemies of the Word to anyone who cares even a little bit.

Only the Holy Spirit whose name is "Jesus Christ the Righteous" can unseal what He gave through the Apostles to mark as false teachers those elders who do not "teach that which has been taught."

The word HOLDING or HAVING harps never means PLAYING a literal harp: that would be rank legalism and virtual insanity if you want to unlock the mysteries.

The word means that they POSSESS A holy spirit or a clear conscience and can understand the Words which are spoken. Those who cannot, for instance, read the word SPEAK and it comes out as MAKE MUSIC.

That holy personal spirit vibrates in sympathy with the Spirit of Christ which He said was in His words.

The OTHER meaning of HOLDING speaks of making a clanging noise with literal instruments. The purpose is to SET AN AMBUSH to steal the spirits

[520] But when they were come to the place where it seemed good unto them to set their ambush, in a river-bed where was a watering-place for all herds alike, there they sate them down, clothed about with flaming bronze. Thereafter were two scouts set by them apart from the host, waiting till they should have sight of the sheep and sleek cattle.

[525] And these came presently, and two herdsmen followed with them playing upon pipes; and of the guile wist they not at all.


Instruments under the Levitical Warrior musicians included SETTING AMBUSH:

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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