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Rick
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.32.211.190

Urgent Need for Information re: Milton Jones

February 1 2009, 1:02 PM 

The request has been made in response to each of the following messages by Ken Sublett:

----------------------------------------------
Ken Sublett
First Colony INVADING peaceful territory
May 7 2008, 10:19 PM 

Here is how they turn the trick: This is so vile I have trouble believing that even Satan could pull it off without some real trouble in river city. But, Paul warned the Thessalonian church. [... ... ...]

----------------------------------------------
Ken Sublett
Ronnie Norman part of the Band!
May 5 2008, 10:11 PM 

Ken, why would you say that, "Ronnie Norman has been a misguiding light from the beginning so there is no doubt that he has been warming the waters to boil the frogs."?

Ronnie's name has appeared grouped with all of those who set out with a well-stated agenda to restructure the Church of Christ. [... ... ...]

----------------------------------------------
Ken Sublett
Review of First Sermon: 2 Chron 3
May 27 2008, 10:59 PM 

I got around to listening to Ronnie's first sermon where he gives some of his proof texts. The first part is a pretty judgmental putdown of why the Church of Christ DIVIDED and ADDED. It is a lack of Bible and Restoration history to assume that The Church of Christ was ever a PART of the Disciples denomination. [... ... ...]

----------------------------------------------

FROM: Rick
SUBJECT: Milton Jones
February 1 2009, 6:19 AM 

Can you please give me any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Why is this query here?

February 2 2009, 7:09 AM 

Brother Milton Jones is not at First Colony. Identify what congregation you and Brother Jone are at, identify just "who" is having the problems (a tiny number, or a large majority) and then start a new thread. Stick with facts and not sinful innuendo and divisiveness.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
207.65.229.114

Why here?

February 2 2009, 10:29 PM 

Milton Jones is one of Ronnie Norman's legalistic, sectarian patternists to authorize lying, cheating and strealing the church houses of widows JUST to impose ceremonial legalism as the CURSE imposed on Israel BECAUSE of musical idolatry.

Milton Jones has carried his "cell groups" to another church which has begun to smell the smoke after the house is about burned down. Because I went to Texas to PROCURE Milton Jones I have sent an e-mail.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Like I said...

February 3 2009, 10:59 AM 

Ken, stick with facts and not your usual sinful innuendo and divisiveness. If someone has a complaint about Brother Milton Jones, start a new thread

 
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Jimmy P Wren
(no login)
96.18.127.28

Ray may be wrong!

December 25 2009, 9:00 PM 

Ray writes that the contribution hasn't gone done at The Colony Church in Sugar Land TX. Ray should give his source and amounts if he wishes to convince anyone.

The sources that I use show a contribution of over $6,000,000 in 2006; a little over $5,500,000 in 2007; and right at $5,000,000 in 2008.

I don't have the numbers for 2009 but if Ray claims an increase then let him provide the source and the amount.

You can verify the numbers that I use at the link:

http://www.ecfa.org/MemberProfile.aspx?ID=19150

In Christ,
Jimmy

 
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Ray
(no login)
76.254.126.221

Jimmy is mixing apples and oranges

December 26 2009, 2:25 PM 

The conversation Jimmy references is over a year old. It was a discussion on weekly contributions, which continued to be above the budget until the economic downturn. 2008 finished with contributions ABOVE the budget. 2009 contributions are at the present only ONE week behind the 2009 budget. The ECFA figures Jimmy references include ALL contributions - both weekly tithes and the THREE year building funds promised by its members. SInce this program is winding down, it would be expected that contributions to the building fund would wind down, too. The ECFA website does not separate the weekly contributions from the building contributions, but combines a steady cash flow with the planned decreasing cash flow. BTW, First Colony Church of Christ is one of the only churches of Christ with the integrity to be honored by the EFCA. Let's see how much integrity the false teacher "piney" and his followers have.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
96.18.127.28

Contribution Drops; One Worship Service is dropped...

December 26 2009, 4:29 PM 

As IM is announced and becomes a part of The Colony the contribution drops. This cannot be denied.

Colony Church

In Christ,
Jimmy

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Ray and Tithing: and the Levitical Priesthood?

December 26 2009, 4:32 PM 

Ray,

  • Where did the "weekly tithes" come from? Did you forget about the Levites or the Levitical priesthood?
  • Combined contributions? If so, then, you should be able to tell us the approximate building contributions and subtract the difference to come up with the approximate weekly contributions.
  • The Madison congregation has had similar financial issues to that of First Colony. Madison, however, due to dwindling membership during the upheaval, realistically and purposely lowered its weekly budget by several thousand dollars. It still is having difficulty meeting its already lowered weekly budget, but it is able to identify its regular weekly contributions from all other financial stats.
  • So, who are the other "only churches of Christ with the integrity to be honored by the EFCA"?
  • "Piney" is not a church. But Piney is very capable of presenting facts from his extensive and incomparable researches. He is also very capable of exposing the errors in the ACQUIRED doctrines and teachings [from denominational neighbors] of change agents in the brotherhood. All that does not make Piney a false teacher. Instead, the integrity of the change agents who are causing division in the church is what's questionable.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
72.171.0.140

Poutings from Piny Pontificating Plenty.

December 26 2009, 8:30 PM 

Piney has no vested interest, no income and nothing to sell except links to some good research data. Therefore, If you pounce on Piney you will probably drive him into into three pots of coffee each day up from 2. And you will also discover that I was pretty much forced into action after my second GIFT FROM THE LORD got swiped by the musicators or almost swiped with a grand leap forward from about 350 very happy members to less than 200 and having to sell property to pay their bills.

And also, be advised that Jesus put the burden on me to dig out why EVERYONE thinks that music is to replace the "school (only) of the Bible (only) when Christ in Spirit marked the serpent in the garden of eden as a musical enchanter(ess) and "a singing and harp-playing prostitute" all the way up to Revelation 17 where the end-time Babylon mother of harlots uses the "lusted after FRUITS" (same as in Amos) as rhetoricians, singers and instrument players. John calls them SORCERY with a word which is verified by modern medicine that music enchants (all Greek resources agree) by inducing a POISON or drug high. Circe, the prostitute in John's message hidden from most preachers, identifies the CIRCUS and after charming lost sailors turned them into SWINE and made them grunt for more hand-kneeded dung patty cakes. Ummm! sounds like lying sermons?

And finally, Jesus didn't give me any burden to worry about whether anyone was deterred from stealing the church house of widows. After all Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites by naming slick speakers, singers and instrument players. The AUDIENCE is also named as hypocrites because they are attracted only by the entertainment or maybe to watch God zap a lying preacher right there in the "Holy Place" for using musicians to "bring you into the presence of God."

Now, this gives me another chance to link my quicky review of Ronnies sermon gleefully provided by the NACC and some handholding during their goal to GATHER several thousand congregations. Hey, as I always say, why BUILD a church when you can INFILTRATE and just plain STEAL IT. Now, it is well documented throughout the Bible that dogs (old style praise singers howling for a mate), sorcerers (musicians says John and all known literature) and LIARS will go into the lake of fire SPECIFICIALLY PREPARED for God's enemies. The SOUNDS of God already driving them into hell is the Wind, String and Percussion instruments Lucifer (ZOE) brought into the garden of Eden.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html


And to prove BEYOND DOUBT that whatever this church is now it is built upon the foundation of LYING about God and to God and cheating the owners out of the property. Lying, stealing, sorcery (music), dogs (praise singers) all go to the PREPARED PLACE for a now-preparing people--as we type.

http://www.piney.com/First.Colony.Norman.html

But, if Piney is NOT a liar they HAVE caught on to the fact that they have been caught in a BEAR TRAP and according to the Bible and The Book of Enoch, the music is the PROOF that they have fallen and will NEVER get up. So, eat, drink and make mary, I always say.

Now, if Jimmy will document the Richland Hills congregation with their leap from 6,400 to less that 4,000 and with similar budget problems. If you can STEAL a church house from widows the least you can do is keep up the payments on stolen merchandise. If God catches you with a widow's purse in your teeth, you are a gonner.

 
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Ray
(no login)
166.205.11.253

Jimmy's deliberately misleads

December 27 2009, 8:58 AM 

As I said before, the stats Jimmy quotes are accurate BUT he deliberately misleads in that he ignores the whole story. The contributions he lists include weekly contributions (which are up by 10% over 2008) AND contributions to the building program which ends this year. So of course contributions overall WILL decrease when the building fund winds down. But the weekly contributions have increased. Can Jimmy prove otherwise? Jimmy also deceives in that he only mentions one service being eliminated but does mention why. The why is that we moved into a larger facility and no longer needed three services. Our attendance over two services is slightly larger than it was for three. Donnie, I don't expect you to birve the facts since you follow a deceiver who is not accountable to any eldership. Like the Gnostics of old, he promotes his own knowledge and not the Christ. He avoids the truth and the facts because he fears the light. And if Jimmy wants to see the details of the contributions, let him or you go to First Colony and ask for the details.

 
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Ray
(no login)
76.254.126.221

Further proof that Jimmy is a deceiver

December 27 2009, 2:48 PM 

I am looking at the contributions and budget for weekly contributions for 2008 and 2009 for First Colony Church of Christ:

Budget for 2008 = $3.01 million
actual exceeded budget by 5%

Budget for 2009 = $3.06 million
actual is 1/2 of 1% behind, but one week remains in the year

IOW, weekly contributions are almost exactly the same at the end of 2009 as they were in 2008, and that in spite of a severe recession.

Why the difference between the ECFA and the weekly? The building fund contributions!!! This program began in 2006 with significant one time contributions, and the remainder donated over the remaining 3 years (ending earlier this year). Hence, as the contributions to the building fund reached maturity, they trailed off.

BUT the weekly contributions increased.

Jimmy's deception is akin to someone paying off a mortgage and being accused of no longer paying for their house, or having less money to pay anything because their cash outlays have decreased.

But do not let the facts confuse those whose goal is only to deceive.

 
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Ray
(no login)
76.254.126.221

Further proof that Ken is a false teacher

December 27 2009, 3:00 PM 

1. He clearly distorts the Word of God for his own deceptions (example - claiming that God did not authorized instruments in the old testament).

2. He is not accountable to any eldership or spiritual leadership

3. He elevate his teaching above the clear teachings in the Word of God, and above the teachings of anyone who disagrees with him

4. He treats with disdain God's children with whom he disagrees with.

5. He spews hearsay and gossip and slander, and refuses to list links to the actual words or audio of those he slanders so anyone can test his accusations for themselves

Bottom line test for discernment - Who does Ken honor? His own teachings and his own learning, or Jesus as the Anointed One, the Christ?

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
72.171.0.149

Re: Further proof that Ken is a false teacher

December 27 2009, 9:27 PM 

Doesn't matter how much money you build on the FOUNDATION of those you have deliberately discorded and offended. The more you GROW the more you GLOW. Anyone who says that God commanded "instrumental music" as a form of worship under the law is clearly terminally ignorant or terminally evil. Jesus cast the musical minstrels "like dung" and consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace along with all of the other peddling of human flesh and radishes.

The PROOF that they CORRUPT the Word is in the definition of "selling learning at retail" like any other huckster. Honest preachers by definition of Jesus will be despised and rejected by the masses.

1. He clearly distorts the Word of God for his own deceptions (example - claiming that God did not authorized instruments in the old testament).

You will remember from Ronnie's sermons that Israel rose up to play at Mount Sinai. I am sure that he told you that was MUSICAL IDOLATRY. Maybe you missed him telling you that.

As a result God turned them over to worship the Starry Host: you remember he told you about that when he preached on Acts 7 and lots of Psalms and prophets.

God put the tribe of LEVI in charge of the "Worship of the Stars" serpents and fire because Jacob had cursed the tribe and warned you NOT to attend their assemblies. The godly people attended the Church of Christ in the wilderness where vocal and instrumental rejoicing was outlawed. THAT is a direct command which the Jews never violated until the year 1815.

So, we conclude that even if you can claim that God COMMANDED the use of "instrumental music during congregational worship" you would have Him COMMANDING or Turning you over to worship the Stars, Fires and serpents. That is what He does when He sends strong deluslions to CONFIRM you in your delusions.

Now, the only real PROOF Ronnie and the smal sect of FIRE WORSHIPERS have is in 2 Chronicles 29. I am sure that Ray has read the whole chapter and concluded that GOD commanded the instruments of the Levites under the king and commanders of the army. Well, back to reading 101 (I disdain liars and sorcerers (musicians says John)). Let's take a quick take which I will expound in the morning.

After the Sin offerings for Judah, the king and the temple--which Christ in Jeremiah, Isaiah etal said were NOT commanded when He saved them from Egypt by Grace and they repaid Him with musical worship of a BULL.

HEZEKIAH THE KING DECIDED TO MAKE A GOAT SACRIFICE FOR ISRAEL WHICH HAD FALLEN TOTALLY INTO IDOLATRY. As the KING he had the right to use the cursed Levites any way he wished.

2 Chronicles 29:26 The Levites stood with the instruments of David,
......and the priests with the trumpets.

......Steteruntque stand as opposed to sitting, to stand firm, stuck fast.
......Of military to stand in the ranks or under arms
......Senentes To hold, keep, have in the hand,
......Remember that the Levites were under the KING and COMMANDERS of the army.

2 Chronicles 29:27 Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering on the altar.
......When the burnt offering began,
......the song of Yahweh began also, and the trumpets,
......together with the instruments of David king of Israel.

You see, the INSTRUMENTS were always DAVID'S instrument because he was the KING and not a worship leader.

2 Chronicles 29:28 All the assembly worshiped, adorante
and the singers sang,


When the Levites were to PROPHESY with instruments the word means SORCERY. The word for SINGERS has the same sorcery meaning.

When they sang

Sang is Canto III. In the lang. of religion, as v. n. or a., to use enchantments, charms, incantations, to enchant, to charm, Verg. E. 8, 71 Exorcise by magic . Ignis strike up the fires Incentor, o-ris, m. [id.] , one who sets the tune or begins to sing, a precentor, singer

and the trumpeters sounded; all this continued
......until the burnt offering was finished. [holocaust]


later I will tell you that the BURNT OFFERINGS were derived from EGYPT where the Levites were an old musical cult who made NOISE while the infants were BURNT to Molech.

The Burnt Offering was NOT commanded by God: it was part of being ABANDONED to worship the STARS, FIRE and SERPENTS.

So you have UNWITTINGLY begun the WARRIOR'S NOISE (never called music) to LIGHT THE FIRES. You even BOAST ABOUT it. There has been a bunch of people including ACU professors who are CALLING DOWN GOD'S HOLY FIRES.

Christ said in Isaiah 30 that when you HEAR the sounds of wind, string and percussion instruments it MEANS that God is already driving you into hell. John calls the speakers, singers and instrument players SORCERERS (as well as fruits) and Sorcerers are also destined to the Lake of Fire.

You have built your foundation on LIES and the imposing of SUN and FIRE worship. Both Lucado and Shelly addressed when they originally brought the fires from the NACC handlers.

 
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Jimmy Wren <font color=white>
(no login)
65.69.152.133

Ray, stop the dialog and give some facts.

December 27 2009, 9:37 PM 

Ray put up some numbers to back your claims. I have put up the declining contribution numbers going back 3 years and by the way the contribution is broken down - all of the giving is not lumped into one sum as you stated earlier.

Why don't you provide the numbers for 2004 - 5? Why not provide the numbers for 2009?

We will also be discussing the decline in attendance numbers shortly. This is your opportunity to get the jump and put up your own numbers. Why not go first?

In Christ,
Jimmy

 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Jimmy has the facts but continues to deceive

December 28 2009, 7:08 AM 

The numbers I have readily available for 2008 and 2009 were posted on December 27th. They prove that Jimmy is trying to deceive by mixing apples (increasing weekly contributions) with oranges (paying off a building program).

All one has to do is visit First Colony or ask the office for the numbers and the facts will be made available. Followers of Christ will seek the truth and the facts ans wil not continue in the sin of hearsay and deception.

Those who do not follow Christ will slander and deceive and will refuse to seek out the facts from the source.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.36

Re: First Colony Church of Christ annouces Instramental music for 3rd service

December 28 2009, 10:57 AM 

I am sure that you remember Ronnie's two presentations on MUSIC MATERS: I listened and took notes but I notice that they have removed access to them. Maybe you can listen to them. In addition you listened to Rick Atchley's going throught all of the bare mentions of instruments from the Lynn Anderson family random but fairly complete collection. Rick, in turn was tutored by David Faust running around preaching UNITY but taking the opportunity to press the NACC collection of proof texts. I have posted direct quotations from all of them but they all derive from the NACC's effort to INCREASE the number of their congregation. I don't expect you to read them but I will post for those ABLE to back away from the DIRECT FULFILLMENT of prophecy.

HERE is what you can never learn at a LIBERAL ARTS college training actors and musicians to take over pulpits. If you miss this point then you cannot be a disciple of Christ who preached all of the songs and sermons. You will remember that it was because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai that God closed their eyes and ears: they would not be able to read black text on brown paper until they converted or were baptized into Christ (2 Cor 3). So, you are following the blind, following the blind Jews.

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel,
......A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren,
......like unto me; him shall ye hear. [the only meaning of assembly]
Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness
......with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina,
......and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:39 To whom our fathers would not obey,
but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
Acts 7:40 Saying unto Aaron,
......Make us gods to go before us [back to Egypt]:
......for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days,
......and offered sacrifice unto the idol,
......and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.


"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

This "rising up to play" involved eating, drinking, nakedness and musical worship. The goddess, Hathor, is the best candidate for the Mother Goddess of the Mount Sinai idolatry. Here priestessess or prophetesses were highly trained with musical instruments, cultic songs and be able to join in the religious dance.

"Music and drugs were co-consiprators in religious ecstasy. They may have used some product of the sycamore fig which both intoxicated and induced an altered state of consciousness. The ergo of barley was well known.

"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (End of Quasten Click to see Music and the Feminine connection)


That is why the Babylon mother of harlots (Rev 17) uses "lusted after fruits" (Rev 18) were slick speakers, singers and instrument players. John called them sorcerers and Jesus called the hypocrites.

What you can never learn while you are a clapping and a sanging!

Acts 7:42 Then God turned,
......and gave them up [g3860 cast out, put in prison]
......to worship the host of heaven;


When Rick Atchley says that 2 Chronicles 29 was interpreted by some "spirit" as God commanding instrumental praise and we must not disobey." GOD is forcing him to tell you that the cursed Levites as a milita power (the discipling elders) are taking over to make a BURNT OFFERING or Holocaust which is the absolute PROOF that they were worshiping the Starry Host. Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon in Revelation is the HAVING FALLEN star who has unleashed the LOCUSTS which is the code word for the MUSES as his 'musical worship team" known as dirty adulteresses--working for the mother of harlots says John.

The HOLOCAUST was offered to Molech because THAT is the "god" they worshipped in the wilderness and called the calf their GOD. So, don't be fooled when they MAKE EXORCISM NOISES to a "god" but not the God of Abraham.

http://www.piney.com/DeaconessElders.html

Furthermore, the Purpose Driven Cult defined by several on the internet DEMANDS that you get the new property ready and in good financial conditon BEFORE you tell people that you are "diverting the money they gave to the lord." Then, you must reorganize and rewrite the bylaws so the OWNERS cannot steal it back from you.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.17

Re: First Colony Church of Christ annouces Instramental music for 3rd service

January 6 2010, 6:09 PM 

I have upgraded my review of Ronnie Norman's selling of Rick Atchley's and the NACC's false teachings about ALL of the Bible and recorded history. Why would people deliberately teach something they KNOW contradicts the clear Biblical statements and the historical understanding of those statements? Because THEY know that SOME of you will not KNOW that they have been subjected to the FROG BOILING experience called "Navigating the Winds of Change." Again, anyone who had ever read Ephesians 4 would know that Paul OUTLAWS the forms of DECEPTIVE WINDS identified by the HYPOCRITIC ARTS before he defines the Church as to teach the Word as ithas been taught.

I have gone beyond the proof texts which any Bible reader will know are opposed ot the truth and the MARK of being "abandoned to worship the starry hosts." For instance, IF someone performed miraculous signs and wonders to ALMOST deceive the ELECT Paul called LYING WONDERS how do you know that you are not hearing and seeing the absolute definition of LYING WONDERS. All poets and musicians were known to lie and therefore "set their lies to melodies to deceive the simple minded." "Gentlemen" says our resource will not fall for it.

2Th. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
......whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
......with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
......because they received not the love of the truth,
......that they might be saved.
2Th. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
......that they should believe a lie:
2Th. 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
......but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


At no time in church history has so many (numerically) lies been told by so few who were PURPOSE DRIVEN to restructure Churches of Christ into instrumental churches. It is simply NOT possible to see MUSIC as part of the School of the Bible of Christ without performing some supernatural signs and wonders.

Lying Wonders: hierourg-ia , hê,
Pindar, Olympian 1
Muthos 2. fiction (OPPOSITE logos, historic truth), Pi.O.1.29 [logic, thinking, reasoning, reflection)

......Logos is opposite to poetry,
......opposite to PATHOS or one's personal experience.
......opposite of arousing passion, emotional style or treatment.
......opposite to Melos, musical member, melody of an instrument.


Example in the literate literature:

Rhetoric 1.1. Further, in dealing with certain persons, even if we possessed the most accurate scientific knowledge,
we should not find it easy to persuade them by the employment of such knowledge.
For scientific discourse is concerned with instruction,
but in the case of such persons instruction is impossible;


Pindar Olympian 1 But if, my heart, you wish to sing of contests,
[5] look no further for any star warmer than the sun, shining by day through the lonely sky, and let us not proclaim any contest greater than Olympia. From there glorious song enfolds the wisdom of poets, so that they loudly sing [10] the son of Cronus, when they arrive at the rich and blessed hearth of Hieron,

[12] who wields the scepter of law in Sicily of many flocks,
......reaping every excellence at its peak, and is glorified
[15] by the choicest music, which we men often play around his hospitable table.
......Yes, there are many marvels,
......and yet I suppose the speech of mortals beyond the true account can be deceptive,
......stories adorned with embroidered lies;
[30] and Grace, who fashions all gentle things for men,
......confers esteem and often contrives to make believable the unbelievable.

SPEAK is defined inclusive of a conversational style: it is definned EXCLUSIVE of rhetoric, poetry or music which is the MARK of those conceiving to deceive.

I will respond to any question confidentially.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.26

Lying Wonders to ROB TEMPLES.

January 12 2010, 8:32 PM 

Lying Wonders:Teratourg-eô, A. WORK wonders, pseudôsti Sch.Pi.I.7(6).13. Lying is pseudes

Plato warned that when people INTRODUCE A NEW STYLE OF MUSIC you should worry because they intend to INTRODUCE A NEW SET OF LAWS. In Plato's Laws 10 he wrote the TEXT BOOK on how to rob a temple. This is much like Machiavelli the change agents appeal to to warn that CHANGE was slow because "the people have the Law on their side."

884a] Of the rest, the most grave are the licentious and outrageous acts of the young; and outrages offend most gravely when they are directed against sacred things, and they are especially grave when they are directed against objects which are public as well as holy, or partially public, as being shared in by the members of a tribe or other similar community. As to temple-robbing, whether done by open violence or secretly,

[885b] it has been already stated summarily what the punishment should be... For as it is, this and such as this is the account of them we hear from those who are reputed the best of poets [poiêtôn], orators [rhêtorôn], seers [Mantis, oida], priests [hieros], and thousands upon thousands of others;
......and consequently most of us, instead of seeking to avoid wrong-doing,
......do the wrong and then try to make it good.


Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: in Isaiah but especially in Ezekiel 33 Christ identified them as entertaining speakers, singers and instrument players.

Lying wonders think that they can make music (sorcery says John) and appease God or make the performers look appealing:

[10.[909b] or open to bribes, despise men, charming the souls of many of the living, and claiming that they charm the souls of the dead,
......and promising to persuade the gods by bewitching them,
......as it were, with sacrifices, prayers and incantations,
......and who try thus to wreck utterly not only individuals,
......but whole families [Oikia household] and States for the sake of money,--
......if any of these men be pronounced guilty, the court shall order him to be imprisoned according to law in the mid-country jail,


This has the same meaning as the curse of the Sacrificial system where the PATTERNISM for exorcising music is found. This was a SKIA or shadow or "wholly eronneous system" and a covenant with death. This is defined by the marzeah in Amos which is also dismissed out of hand.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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