I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?

This email was sent to the FCCC members mailing list on 4/25/08:

This Sunday I Start A Two Week Series Called “Music Matters” And We Will Ask For Your Feedback Next Sunday, May 4… I plan to talk very openly about our musical heritage in the churches of Christ (much of which is so very positive). We’ll bathe this discussion in the light of scripture and ask for your prayers. Last summer & fall, all the elders began to study, reflect, discuss and pray about asking the church to consider offering well-done, tasteful, live instrumentation in one of our worship services and if so, when should that service be offered. By “well-done” I mean a service where the instrumentation complements rather than overwhelms and where participatory singing remains a high value.

Bottom line: all the elders felt fine about allowing a service with live instrumentation (but only if well-done and only if a strong exclusively acappella presence continues in other services) and we’ve even talked about some possible specifics with one another and our deacons. However, the reality is we are not married to anything specific regarding dates and times. We have certainly given this some thought but nothing is set in stone. We are not even married to offering an instrumental service. But we are married to a clear and open process where we ask the entire church to consider the possibility of live instrumentation in one of the worship services of our church family. We ask you to consider this through a process of evaluating scripture, praying for God’s leading, considering one another, and providing feedback.

Specifically, on Sunday May 4 we will ask you to fill out a brief survey telling us your perspectives regarding “church music”. That survey will also be available on-line and here’s what it will do: it will help us know more accurately where we are as a church family and what you think. When it comes to even considering any kind of transition in our church culture, our elders will move slowly & gently and will provide time for study, evaluation, prayer and dialog. I’m looking forward to presenting these two messages and I hope you’ll be encouraged.

Is this the church?

Ronnie Norman is our Senior Minister. Ronnie's gifts of preaching and providing leadership to the church family continue to be a catalyst for effective ministry. Serving the church since 1985, Ronnie is the only Senior Minister in the history of First Colony..

http://www.firstcolonychurch.org/

Ronnie Norman has been a misguiding light from the beginning so there is no doubt that he has been warming the waters to boil the frogs.

They ALL read off the same script prepared for them by the NACC who has used them as Judas Goats. There is not a jot or tittle of truth in Rick Atchley's "white paper filled with black lies." My reviews of Rick Atchley are tentative but I have reviewed the REST of the ORIGINAL BAND who intended to RESTRUCTURE all churches of Christ but have had to settle with perverting their own congregation.

http://www.piney.com/Rick-Atchley-Music.html

Here is the best summary of the Old Testament reviewing Terry Rush:

http://www.piney.com/Terry.Rush.Review.html

There are TWO THREADS from Genesis to Revelation:

The PAGAN thread: The Israelits fell into musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. God turned them over to worship the starry host and IMPOSED the law to regulate them until the captivity and death sentence was carried out. ALL of the "proof texts" they use is to DRAG YOU back beyond the cross.

The SPIRITUAL thread: However, the Spirit OF Christ commanded the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness.
It was INCLUSIVE of resting (from Ronnies), reading and rehearsing the Word of God.
It was EXCLUSIVE by outlawing an assembly with "vocal or instrumental rejoicing.

That is because it was always a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE to quarantine the godly Isralites from the pagan clergy.
The Spirit OF Christ spoke ONLY through the prophets all of whom radically condemn musical instruments as MARKS of people who refused to listen to God. I suggest the BOAST of Senior Minister having first fired all of the vocational deacons and USED deaconesses, proves that the ELDERS have been intimidated into going along to get along.

IT IS ALL, 1OO% LYING TO GOD AND ABOUT GOD.

Because you will be listening to Rick Atchley's material you need to alert people to the fact that Rick is terminally ignorant about the context and story line he quotes or he INTENTIONALLY plans to lead you into the same Babylonianism the Israelites were cursed with especially in and around the temple.

Because the end-times promises a FEMALE and EFFEMINATE take over you should be aware that:

Revelation warns of the Mother of Harlots Revelation 17

1. SHE uses "lusted after fruits" as

2. Slick and lying preachers, singers and the same instruments Lucifer--the singing and harp playing prostitute--brought with him/her/itself into the garden of Eden.

3. John calls them SORCERERS (Revelation 18) as indeed ALL of the instrument terms are rooted in vileness and were never used except for MIND CONTROL.

Any Bible literate person knows the MARK and I doubt that this small band of merry men do not know that they are agents of a bad hostile takeover.

If you have any written material let me know: I will not reveal names

piney@piney.com

They will or have tried to intimidate you into silence: don't listen, it is YOUR property and YOUR church and human family they INTENTIONALLY intend to divide hoping they can fill your property with their own kind which always had ONE PERSONA. You are the PAYMASTER and the preacher is a HIRELING: exercise your rights and confront him. Do NOT flee: that is what they want the owners to do. Oppose Him, do mailings to the members, do NOT feed his face because there is no LAW OF GIVING for such vileness.

They have spent more than a decade ORGANIZING behind your backs: do not let them turn your school of the
Bible into a "theater for holy entertainment." Their condescending to an a capella assembly is NOT for long and because musical machines in the face of a Holy God was always vile, your whole property will be defiled. Let them if they have minimal human ethics GO and build their own property or meet with a Christian Church and see if THEY will tolerate an NON-MACHINE worship. Do it: this is YOUR chance to as WWYDWJ.

Refuting The Anti-Instrumental Doctrine of The Church of Christ


Many Churches of Christ have made the issue of instrumental music (IM) paramount, almost on a level equal to the Gospel. Yet the traditional teaching on this subject by most Churches of Christ is false doctrine, pure and simple! Space doesn’t permit a lengthy article that I wrote on the subject a few years ago, so here’s a condensed version.


Refuting the “No New Testament Authorization” Doctrine

The best way to know what the scriptures teach is to understand the original Greek language. The main scripture used to refute IM opposition is Ephesians 5:19. Consider this: the part of Ephesians 5:19 where Paul wrote: “…sing and make melody in your hearts…” can be misleading when read from the KJV. The original Greek says: “adontes kai psallontes”. Adontes means “singing”, then “kai” is a conjunction (also used in Acts 2:38 in “repent and [kai] be baptized”) meaning the joining of two separate actions. Obviously repenting and being baptized are not one and the same action, but two separate actions, which is also true in Ephesians 5:19: “singing” plus another action: “psallontes”, meaning to pluck a stringed instrument. By the way, it’s really stretching it to claim that the “plucking” here is plucking the heart strings, or the vocal chords. Therefore, the Christians in the first century, since they understood the original Greek language, would have read that as “Sing and pluck a stringed instrument”. (The MacArthur Study Bible also supports this understanding of this passage). But what do we do about the “in your hearts” part? Again, returning to the original Greek, it means to put your heart into those two actions. Now whether this is even referring to a worship assembly or not, whatever the case, they would have understood it to mean to do both actions as one praises God whether in private, personal worship, or in worship with others.


Refuting that the “Psalms Were Part of the Old Law" Doctrine

The Psalms may have been written while the Old Law was in effect, but they were not a part of the Law that was given to Moses (which was done away with). In Deuteronomy 31:24-26a, it says: “After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord: ‘Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God’…”.

The Old Law never commanded or suggested using instrumental music, yet David stated in the Psalms that it, along with dancing was among the ways people were to praise God. (See Psalm 150). Now think: as harsh as the Old Law was, if it had been something God would oppose, since He had not commanded it in The Law, you can bet your boots they would have been struck dead for doing an “unauthorized act of worship”, but they were not! Therefore, since the Psalms were not a part of The Old Law (Law of Moses) that was “nailed to the cross”, it’s obvious that even the first century disciples would not have considered it an act that would have ended. The use of instrumental music in praise to God would have come naturally to those believers since that’s what they had been familiar with. Since the burnt offerings and incense were a part of the Old Law, they would have known that those laws had been done away with. So the argument that “if someone is going to use instrumental music, then they have to have burnt offerings“, is faulty at best.

IF I were to "bet my boots" on anything I would "bet my boots" that the first christians KNEW that "making melody in your heart" did not mean to "pluck an instrument", it meant what it said "In your heart"(spiritual) not an instrument(physical). Why are we so intent to stretch the scriptures to try and satisify people.

Robert and Ken,

Clearly there are at least two sides to the issue of instrumental worship. One side says it is wrong and forbidden either directly or indirectly in the Bible. The other side disagrees and feels that it should be up to each congregation to decide whether or not to have some form of instrumental worship. Hopefully we can agree on that.

It seems clear that the First Colony Church of Christ is only exploring the idea of using instruments to quote the email sent to the entire congregation

"We have certainly given this some thought but nothing is set in stone. We are not even married to offering an instrumental service. But we are married to a clear and open process where we ask the entire church to consider the possibility of live instrumentation in one of the worship services of our church family."

Why would you, Robert, say "I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark."?

I read the same email you did. (The one that asked the deacons to keep from spreading the news) The reason is that the Elders wanted to share this with all of the church leaders and seek their questions and comments before it was discussed with the congregation as a whole. In a church body and in all walks of life, leaders sometimes choose to seek input before implementing changes. It makes sense to do that and it makes sense to ask that those who you told early to "sit" on that information until all decisions have been made. By the way, many of the original ideas and implementations were changed as a result of these leader meetings.

Another quote from the email,

"Specifically, on Sunday May 4 we will ask you to fill out a brief survey telling us your perspectives regarding “church music”. That survey will also be available on-line and here’s what it will do: it will help us know more accurately where we are as a church family and what you think."

It clearly appears that the Church leadership, including Ronnie Norman, is seeking input from the membership before a decision has been made. It goes directly against your comment about this taking place in "darkness."

Also Robert, you said that "The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service."

When did you decide that Ronnie is less dynamic than Rick? How did you decide this? What are you basing this on? Frankly, it just sounds mean! Rick's DVD series is being offered to the church members to provide additional information about the topic of instrumental music. It is not being done to shore-up Ronnie's inadequacies.

Ken, why would you say that, "Ronnie Norman has been a misguiding light from the beginning so there is no doubt that he has been warming the waters to boil the frogs."?

What do you mean? And what is your basis for this quote. How did you come to realize that "Ronnie Norman has been a misguiding light from the beginning....?" That is a very strong statement that would imply that he has had less than honorable intentions from his first days at First Colony. The email he sent to the congregation would suggest otherwise. If he were intentionally misguiding the congregation it would make little sense to give each and every member an opportunity to share their feelings. Seriously, how do you know what is in Ronnie's heart?

Ronnie and the other leaders have made it very clear to the congregation that they are seeking input from the church body. They have been very accessible and had literally hundreds of conversations with individual members about instrumental music. Thankfully the Eldership of this congregation has the wisdom to seek the input from its members.

I am thankful that we live in a time and place where both sides can voice its own opinion. But your attack on Ronnie seems to be unwarranted, unfair, and ignorant regarding this congregation's apporoach.

Charles

Charles,

Thank you for your response. I have been involved with what has happened at several churches, not all are Churches of Christ, and there are some very familiar similarities to what has happened at First Colony Church of Christ. What is happening is a programmed change. There are specific guidelines on how to make changes and when to “back off” the pace of the changes. If you are in the know you will know that specific aspects of the way we do ‘church’ has changed and some changes are still coming and will be rolled out as the congregation can accept the change. When Ronnie started sitting down to do his sermon last year (which is fine), was that due to his health condition or was that because of coaching from an external source? When the children’s classes started having Guitar players sing children’s songs to them while they were in Sunday school and the players quickly exit before the parents picked them up, (Are parents aware what is going on? I wasn’t) was that not a change that the community church has facilitated? If you are interested in what I am suggesting, read the article about what happened to Madison church of Christ. That article was posted in 2002 and the path that man describes is similar to the one First Colony is on.

What I am concerned with is the method and the time line, which suggest an agenda.
One question: How could 28 elders that grew up in the Church of Christ, several were very conservative, agree on overturning such historically controversial issues? This is where I believe the “darkness” exists. I see the Delphi technique being administered. As warm and friendly as surveys and polls of the congregation seem, they have a purpose. I will cut and paste a definition here: If your not familiar with what it is - it is a manipulative method used by Governments, Organizations and Unions to cause a ‘pre-selected outcome' at a meeting, event, or function. Its usage is also implemented in any on line instrument such as a chat room, forum or newsgroup that has 'Moderators.'
Here is how the Delphi technique works (and boy its effective). It is based upon the Hegelian Dialectic of creating ones own opposition in order to manipulate that opposition to a unified consensus. One exposing document from the Education Reporter accurately describes it:

In group settings, the Delphi Technique is an unethical method of achieving consensus on controversial topics. It requires well-trained professionals, known as "facilitators" or "change agents," who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against another to make a preordained viewpoint appear "sensible,” while making opposing views appear ridiculous.

I wish I could explain more, but I would like for you, to investigate it for yourself. A group about church growth has a form of the Delphi technique for it’s seminars on how to grow a church, which is not about Acts 2. When you read about this process many unnerving items will become evident, it was defined by the RAND corp. in the 60’s, but the Oracle of Delphi comes from the Greeks.

I guess you know that many subjects in science, Evolution, global warming and others are not based in fact but are determined through consensus surveys from the experts. Majority rule? A majority would not get on the Ark with Noah, A majority would not leave Sodom or Gomorrah, and a majority crucified Jesus. Be careful agreeing with the majority!

The email has been prolific with one more topic that has been stated by an elder, “our church will be more market driven”. Truly that would not trump a Faith driven church. Please once again Google “Market Driven Church”. A minister from a Bible church in Illinois described it best. I believe the minister’s last name is Gilley. I do not know if the elder is researching what he is saying about ‘market driven’ or if it just a buzz word that has no meaning to him.

Darkness! I think there has been some planning since 1999! Planning that has included deception of a lot of people. A lot of people at church are broken hearted and hurting and somehow changing the way we do a service helps! I think the Bible is speaking to First Colony church in Revelation 3:14. You know the riches people on the earth are not the people that have the most, but the people that need the least.

One last thing, I sat in the audience at Rick Atchley’s church for six years. He could inspire people to get out on a Sunday afternoon for weeks and help widows with their needs—and it was not a church program it was people doing what they felt they needed to do. It was not a habitat for humanity, it was people wanting to develop relationships with each other and work for good. I have witnessed his dynamic, change a great church and turn it downward into what it is now!

It is a fact that when they begin asking about whether we should add instruments knowing that it will deliberately sow discord and drive away a large fraction of the OWNERS, it is not moral, ethical or Godly. No one asks such a question without intending to do it at whatever the cost.

Most of the congregations set out on a deliberate Hegelian program as "Navigating the winds of change" or a living visual aid of how "to boil a frog" and keep it singing and clapping. It was always planned that it would take at least 10 years to soften up the group by deliberately using instruments with the children, the youth groups and then adding a "musical worship team" which is an even match between blasphemy and ignorance. What's to care if you INTEND to as they would say at Madison and elsewhere "to turn the church into a theater for holy entertainment." These are evil people seemingly working "lying wonders" and they will have to force out lots of the elders before they and be "100% in agreement." It is all a viper bite by the preacher who has demoted the elders into being his "shepherds."

These people have copied the steps out of Mein Kampf and even appeal to Machiavelli about why it takes so long and you must never give up to "steal a nation and become its Prince" or we might say Princess. I assure you that they are all reading off the script handed to them by the NACC and they have been groomed for the purpose: it is not a high compliment that these men are so easily seduced. I have reviewed the important books and lectures by these men and they all deliberately lie about every mention of an instrument in the Bible.

Furthermore, all of their PROOF TEXTS about PSALLO point to older males plucking the harp to seduce a "youth minister" who had been degendered (a cappella, a castrato).

The fatal flaw is that they do not recognize the TWO THREADS running through the Old Testament: the Monarchy which they use as authority was rank Gentile worship because Stephen and others make it clear that "God turned them over to worship the starry host because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. Then God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger as any Samuel reader could never miss.

At the same time, the SABBATH (rest) day was set aside as the Qahal, Synagogue or church in the wilderness. This defined the "school of the Bible" and EXCLUDED vocal and instrumental rejoicing which was reserved to signal movements or an attack of the enemy.

I will post some review of the false teachings about Ephesians 5 next. Stan is trying to cook your goose.

Stan Cook:The best way to know what the scriptures teach is to understand the original Greek language. The main scripture used to refute IM opposition is Ephesians 5:19. Consider this: the part of Ephesians 5:19 where Paul wrote: “…sing and make melody in your hearts…” can be misleading when read from the KJV. The original Greek says: “adontes kai psallontes”. Adontes means “singing”, then “kai” is a conjunction (also used in Acts 2:38 in “repent and [kai] be baptized”) meaning the joining of two separate actions. Obviously repenting and being baptized are not one and the same action, but two separate actions, which is also true in Ephesians 5:19: “singing” plus another action: “psallontes”, meaning to pluck a stringed instrument. By the way, it’s really stretching it to claim that the “plucking” here is plucking the heart strings, or the vocal chords. Therefore, the Christians in the first century, since they understood the original Greek language, would have read that as “Sing and pluck a stringed instrument”.

If the truth be known, there are three actions. First, is SPEAKING and that is directed one to another. The Resources are the Inspired Text.

Both the singING and makING are in the HEART and directed to GOD. Stan wants to translate that as:

Singing and Playing a Harp IN your heart.

Now, Stan, that might be painful. IN the HEART is a PLACE as Johnn 4 makes certain and the action is secret and TO GOD and not FROM a performance crew TO the paying AUDIENCE who pay TOO MUCH to hear always silly sounding singers and poor players: better to steal CDs.

The OBJECT is to hold BIBLE CLASS so we teach, admonish, comfort with Scripture (Rom 15) and glorify God: no one can BE your mediator to "lead you into the presence of God." That smacks of the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place (podium) Claiming to be Christ Who died to get to be Mediator and "worship leader." Now, here is a little study of the words SPEAK which could have been Hebrew Cantillation which is not TUNEFUL but rhythmic prose.

SPEAK defines the style of presenting the Psalms which were NOT metrical.
Singing AND plucking the heart strings was directed TO GOD.
The parallel in Colossians 3 to deny the INSTRUMENT urge is to "Sing with GRACE in the heart." Both melody and grace were elements of the public teaching style. Psallo has absolutely NO musical content.





Let me say it again with all of the respect these people deserve: they are lying about God and to God because THEY have their own agenda which now allows them to LIE and CHEAT and STEAL and feel justified because "they have a higher use for YOUR property."

Ken, why would you say that, "Ronnie Norman has been a misguiding light from the beginning so there is no doubt that he has been warming the waters to boil the frogs."?

Ronnie's name has appeared grouped with all of those who set out with a well-stated agenda to restructure the Church of Christ.

The all use the same language and the same "navigating the winds of change" pattern. When they were beginning to STEAL the church at Oak Hills intending to confiscate the other churches as "daughter churches" they slicked a conservative eldership into letting them hold a how to do it effort. Of course, Lynn Anderson and family have been the dominant leaders in the Oak Hills switch. Here are a few notes where Lynn Anderson and Ronnie Norman etal were describing their SHEPHERDING MOVEMENT and Lynn Anderson makes it clear that it is patterned after Promise Keepers Shepherding which is the Old Cross Roads. That is why the IOCC has been taken into the college meetings and the Tulsa Soulstealing Workshop.

I would guess that Ronnie has a CORE LEADERSHIP IN EXILE just as they did at Madison and elsewhere which have been doing their thingy in dark places. Here is one that comes to mind.

http://www.piney.com/Anderson-Shepherds.html

All recorded history knows that when you want to COMMUNITY CHURCH or Commune your tribe nothing is more powerful than music to BIND the tribe to the DOMINANT LEADER.

No doubt about it: it fits the pattern. I probably have more which I have reviewed. To their utter shame, out of maybe 13,000 congregations they have STOLEN as far as I know the only DEFECTOS are those of the original band. Max follows Chris, Rick follows Max, Mark Henderson follows Rick and now Ronnie follows. Milton Jones who lied cheated and stole the church house of widows in Seattle I invested 18 years in may have been the first LEMMING off the shore.

Mr. Sublett,

I appreciate your knowledge of the bible and the spiritual matters that are affecting the Church. I would ask if you have any information about "church elders" and the role they play in the church, please direct or post it at this site.

If you have a chance, please go to the First Colony Church of Christ Web page and look at the elders page. The elders page will be found by selecting leadership and then selecting elders. There will be found the elders listed with their pictures. Next to the elders name there will be an asterisk, notice that the asterisk is not footnoted. I happen to know that the asterisk denote the directing elders and the rest are shepherding elders. Ronnie Norman is head of the eldership. Is this a pattern at the other corporate churchs or is this a characteristic of some other church denomination? I am curious as to why the eldership structure has been set this way. To me this structure would make politics part of the eldership, in that a discontented Shepherding elder would want to move to a loftier position as directing elder. I have asked an elder about this and I understood him to say, that it was a better way to run the church.

By the way will on that front page will be the members survey on the service. It ask members opinion about a Instumental Music service.

Thank you,

Robert

Note to Anonymous. Ronnie Norman is not head of the eldership. He is not even amoung the Directing Elders. He is one of the Shepherding Elders, who work directly with the deacons and staff. One of the Directing Elders serves as an Elder Chairman for their meeting and comunucations. The * is described in each entry and you are correct that it denotes one of the Directing Elders. For the most part, these are the godly men who have been elders the longest. As for this site, when I see "piney" or "sublett" I can count on that mening three things: He doesn't speak for God, for the congregation he is not a member of but still is attacking, or for the principles of the Restioration Movement. He is simply a divisive and meddlesome agitator.

Ray,

Thank you for your response! I appreciate you and other members who seek the truth in love. I grew up in the Church of Christ and I have never witnessed what is happening at First Colony. I have been at a Church of Christ where the minister started speaking in "tongues" and most of us just dismissed him. What I have not seen is the complete change of culture that we are experiencing. It is hard to believe that there has been a complete walk of faith, without outside sources consulting Ronnie and the elders through out these changes, which the congregation has been experiencing. I would point to the DVD produce with Rick Atchtley. Rick is a well known consultant, who has as much to say about what is happening, as Ken Sublett does. There has been meddling that the congregation has not been privileged to know, that the leadership has allowed and possibly engaged. If the information is true what Ken Sublett says Ronnie has been involved with, I am afraid we have had a snake in our midst. The Elders will have to answer to God for that, about the way they have been spending the monies the flock has been contributing to God’s work and they will answer for the direction they are taking this church. I am not judging them, God knows their hearts, and I do not. Yet I will invetigate until I find the truth. I can only pray their example leads us to a closer walk with him.

Robert

What Ken has to say is as far from the truth as the east is from the west. Just a glance as his piney.com website proves that there is very little in God's Kingdom and the churches of Christ that Ken approves of.

Ray,

Except for this website and piney.com, I would never have known who Ken was. At least he tries to answer quetions and I will respect him. I am searching for some answers, to some of the questions, I have about what is happening. I do not get answers from First Colony, in fact I get propaganda. I get why we need to do what we are doing from a DVD from a minister from another church. Friends of mine have approached elders about what is going on and they have been told that "maybe you should find some other place to worship". Why can't our elders be more forthcoming? Other than Ronnie have you heard one speak to the assembly about any of this? Even in those selected meetings, people were suppressed from speaking what was on their hearts. You have got to believe there is some deceit going on!

Robert

There is not deceipt at all. I have talked to many of the elders one-on-one. Most I have known for over 20 years. I have been very open about my opinions. They have been very open about theirs. The only deceipt I have ever seen is from Ken. He is not interested in truth. Ken is not intersted in what God has to say. Ken is only interested Ken, dividing one brother from another, stiriing up strife, and in promoting his propaganda and his slander of good Christian men and a strong and faithful Church of Christ.

Ray,

Ask Ronnie Norman when he decided to add instrumental music to the First Colony church and ask him how he went about convincing others it needed to be done. Also if we are an "independent non-denominational" church(as is stated on the outside of the bulletin we get each Sunday)why are we using the Community church teaching materials? Other ministers in Houston know exactly what is going on, because they attended the same seminars, and they know the extreme degree in which First Colony is taking the advice from these consultants. As for the elders, they cannot see where we have come from and where we are? Yes, the change has been extremely slow, but at this point, there should be a realization that we are not who we say we are!

By the way, do you know the people that have been involved in this changing experience have been taught to avoid public forums? I would be surprised if any of them would respond to this chat board with any explanations, other than just revealing observations!

Robert,

I have laready asked Ronnie and many of the elders. And I was told. It was not Ronnie's idea. It has been an idea that has been discussed by many for over 10 years. Ken has so many facts wrong that Ken is a joke. He is divisive and is not of God. The only reason I have come here is to try to set the record straight for those who have swallowed Ken's poison. Just look at Galatians and answer honestly which fruit describes Ken and which fruit describes First Colony:

Ken's fruit - The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

First Colony's fruit - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Ken's divisiveness has never led a soul to God. First Colony has led countless souls to God.

Yo may not agree with what Fist Colny has decided to do. I am not happy about it either. But I know these men and they are honest, truthful, starightforward, and serving God and Him only. Ken has none of these Christ-like traits.

Can you please give ma any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you

I am Kenneth Sublett, Hohenwald, Tn and served as a teacher, deacon and elder in Seattle and PROCURED Milton Jones.

In 1977 I lived in Seattle Washington and we established a goal to begin a campus ministry at UW. At that time we could identify about half a dozen members of the church of Christ out of maybe 35,000.

We shopped around and got a proposal from Milton Jones at who wanted to bring an exodus group to Seattle. We flew down and looked him over and it looked like a sure bet. We didn't know at the time that his master's education was at an instrumental college.

Milton was hired as a campus minister and as far as I could determine had no preaching skils: when he did from then onward there was no Biblical content. He began a course he had written called VANGUARD and little did we grasp that Milton may have been the first to adopt the infiltrate and divert method.

I left Seattle in 1980 having served as a deacon and then elder and moved back to Tennessee. His wife is a skilled musician and my teen daughters saw the lust to perform before we left. They came to Nashville and took back the skills of the ZOE group (Zoe being another name for Lucifer) and the material of Rubel Shelly and the Jubilee.

Milton defected to a small Christian Church school and slowly integrated them and their leaders into the Northwest Church of Christ.

While being on the teaching list at a large church I often had to explain Seattle to people who visited and were wowed out of their pants: they had removed the Lord's Table to give moving room for their Musical Worship Team. That sowed discord and I began to have lots of e-mails and two long distance visits. Since then I have provided RECOVERY teaching for the plague which spread to other churches but was soon smothered.

In 1997 I had my pages up and going to help many religious groups defend what is really a cult based on lying, cheating, threatening and stealing the church houses of widows. They later added instruments with the wife as Musical Worship Minister.

Milton claimed to have a deal he could not refuse and left Seattle but I am not sure that he wasn't asked to leave. I noticed that he had a friend in a church which seemed to fit his brand.

Like all of those trying to impose instruments on non-instrumental churches they hare hand fed by people out of the NACC who has written WHITE PAPERS used by the 10 or so churches they have stolen. They deliberately lie about all of the Bible and known historic literature.

Milton studied the old Crossroads movement and the new bandits led by Lynn Anderson is preaching a brand of SHEPHERDING which is identical to the Crossroads or ICOC cult.

You can bet that by the time you see the smoke there is lots of undergraound fires set by stealth.

Life members were not permitted to even discuss adding instruments and a deacon from about 1962 left for another congregation. They used a lawyer and told the members that they could be financially liable under the charge of being SECTARIAN if they did not change their historic bylaws outlawing instruments. They used a lawyer to rewrite it and probably did a forced, Moscow type vote to change it.

He agreed to DEFEND adding instruments but outlalwed anyone recording it: I got a poor copy anyway and have some old, rough notes proving that all of the lie by taking the CURSE of the Law and telling people that "God commanded instrumental praise for the church and we MUST NOT be disobedient."

http://www.piney.com/MailSerLucian.html

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro.html

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPsallo.html

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro2.html

These are rough and I will try to clean them up.
Feel free to e-mail me in confidence

Kenneth Sublett
blituri@hughes.net

I think you must have a leader who is a co-conspirator and you should act fast.

I have reviewed most of those who were manipulated by the NACC and they all use the same old data published by the Christian Church when they sected out of the Disciples from 1927 to 1971.

Here is how they turn the trick: This is so vile I have trouble believing that even Satan could pull it off without some real trouble in river city. But, Paul warned the Thessalonian church.

You will notice that Ministry Team is at the TOP.

Ronnie Norman is our Senior Minister. Ronnie's gifts of preaching and providing leadership to the church family continue to be a catalyst for effective ministry. Serving the church since 1985, Ronnie is the only Senior Minister in the history of First Colony. 1985 is about the time a small band of merry men concocted their plan and made masterful use of Machiavelli and Mein Kampf. Ronnie Norman's name has been spread far and wide as part of this notorious band.

Elders:

Ronnie Norman became a Directing elder in 2004

A nasty conflict of interest

Dates they became elders: 2007, 2005, 2001, 1992, 2007, 2007, *1996, 2005, 2007, *1987, 2007, 2005, *1991, 2007, 2001, 2007, ronnie 2004, 2005, 2005, 2005, *1991, 2007, *1991, 2005, 2005, 2005, 2007,

So ALL of the DIRECTING ELDER are Pre-Diversion.

You have a brand new CROP and THAT is part of the Purpose Driven scam.

Shepherding elders have been well defined by men like Rubel Shelly as SHEPHERDING THE MINISTER "who by training and charisma is best suited to be THE leader." By working with the deacons and staff you can see that you have been transistion from a Scriptural church of Christ where the elders are the TOTAL overseers and feeders of the flock who are named along with the deacons. This was charted by Rick Atchley using the PYRAMID because the NEW INSTITUTE is a virtual ziggurat or Tower of Babel where the agent of the gods sits up on top where the collection plate is located. The slaves sing and play instruments on their way to "lay by in store" being told that they will meet the gods or angels ascending and descending. The Mother of Harlots lives again.

Lynn Anderson used some slick willie pressure to get a very conservative eldership to permit him to hold

http://www.piney.com/Anderson-Shepherds.html

This was San Antonio June 19-21, 2003, so you can see that an OVERPOWERING crop of new elders undoubtedly infused by Ronnie Norman was just in time to "start boiling the frogs" because deception takes time and lots of planning. The SHEPHERDING elders will be the ones in contact and the old faithful elders have been KICKED UPSTAIRS.

I quote: "The first annual National Shepherd's Clinic will be held in San Antonio June 19-21, 2003 at Northside Church of Christ. Join me and hundreds of other church leaders for two rich days: Shepherding skills, Case studies from churches in transition, Moving from control to empowerment, Litigation-proofing your church....

and Transitioning your church.
Also Chris Seidman and Ronnie Norman presented strong keynote addresses.

In the Purpose Driven Cult "litigation" includes how to forge your bylaws so that when YOU steal the property the OWNERS cannot steal it back.

Transition n 1: the act of passing from one state or place to the next [syn: {passage}] 2: an event that results in a transformation [syn: {conversion}, {changeover}] 3: a change from one place or state or subject or stage to another 4: a musical passage moving from one key to another [syn: {modulation}] 5: a passage that connects a topic to one that follows
<color=red>"The sessions addressed Transitioning: Moving church leadership style from a Managing Board to a Shepherd's Circle of shepherding, mentoring and equipping. The agenda featured eight case studies from congregations at one stage or another along "Transition Trail" -- sharing both successes and difficulties.

Now you know that the old Managing Board has been usurped by a "Shepherd's Circle of Shepherding." Old Lynn lifts lots of stuff directly from Wicca or Witchcraft "patternism."

Lynn Anderson promotes the Promise Keepers Shepherding scheme which intends to turn the church into a Crossroads or IOCC movement with top-down domination.

I have a Web Page where I will continue to upgrade to prove that the hostile musical takeover is always the rise ot the effeminate or worse "providing a place in the mainstream for those who both amuse and repulse." This fits the patternism that most churches have become a feminist or effeminate ritual nothing like the MASCULINE school of the Bible Jesus died for to get these burden laders off your back.

http://www.piney.com/First.Colony.Norman.html

If I have lifted comments you had rather not get posted just let me know. I will also post any updates so we can see the Mother dragging the sheep off into the bushes.

PATTERNISM OF PERFIDITY.

2003 Teaching others by CASE STUDIES about how to TRANSISTION your church.
2004 Ronnie Norman gets to be a Directing Elder

These men undoubtedly OWE Ronnie for their position and THEY will direct the Staff and Elders:
What else is there to DIRECT.

Chris Seidman had turned the trick: they wrote a white paper filled with black lies and dared me to refute. I did.
Max Lucado had a VISION to remove CHRIST out of the way and ADD instruments: you understand just soft strings in maybe a class room. Lies. Wrote out his vision which parallels Chris Seidman which parallels the script handed to them by the NACC.
Rick Atchley--college roomie--went next. The Holy Spirit guarded, guided and directed to do his sermons: all lies and the same script.
Mark Henderson was the next one to get goosed: same lies with Atchley's CD."
Having figured the LOSSES as acceptable in
Ronnie Norman STACKS THE DECK and goes 2008

I can tell you one thing, this writer KNOWS that they are all lying and managed their lying wonders just like Revelation 17-18 details which happened several times in the Old Testament.

Not, to worry too much: You can count Milton Jones who spread the same lies in Seattle and stole my best work, you can count I have listed and I have not heard the names of any others. So PURPOSE DRIVEN to divert 13,000 congregations they got a few Anti Christ Universities which will help HEAL the wounds and those churches the INTENTIONAL DIVERTERS have had to radicalize or be so ashamed that they would have to be premature in their Judas Maneuver.

You need to look closely at why this small group have been so bonded to follow one another in sequence and all knowing that they were lying TO God and ABOUT God. Those enablers will burn in the same toasters.

When Ronnie LECTURES please transcript or make a list of the PROOFS and the Passages he twists out of shape and I will respond.

Can you please give ma any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you

Here is why you NEED all of those BRAND NEW SHEPHERDS (probably not elders). Max Lucado hired a Discipling Minister. So, you already have the ticks fangs sunk deeply and lots of the resources have been already DIVERTED. They can still be litigated for stealing from you. The secret Guitar thing has not been accidental and I suggest you seek out a "Church in Exile" which has been planning how to do the CULT takeover. Lynn Anderson gives you reason for NEVER telling any of these new SHEPHERDS the time of day and you need to spread the word. They will love to get the dope on you and all such accountability groups insist that your secrets be tabulated and turned in to headquarters. Thereafter, if you dare even question them they will hurt you. Anyone willing to lie, cheat and steal your property, spiritual happiness, church family and literaly family connections. Rick Atchley let it be known that "you may have to choose between your family and instrumental music." The Stepford wives will also be ready to work on any wife whose husband begins to stand in their way.

Lynn Anderson: Accountability Group (no more than 3) What are some good questions to ask each time 2 or 3 of us men meet to hold each other accountable. What are the do's and don'ts of such a commitment...size limits...suggestions for such a commitment. If women want to do this, what accountability questions would be asked in this case? Your ideas and experiences and suggested resources please. We are ministers wanting to lead holy lives before our community in the hope that we may have opportunities to minister and teach.

Accountability Group (no more than 3) Maybe something I say about this can be of help.
I think we all know that accountability is an essential part of Christianity in that we are to help each other grow and become sharpened as iron sharpens iron.

Accountability questions need to be positive focused, direct, and geared toward motivating people to grow.

This type of accountability can be hard but it is where people really grow. Especially us ministers have a hard time admitting our faults for fear of discovery and losing our jobs and/or reputations. The end result is that many of us live double lives with secret sin being our second god that we worship when no one else is looking.

Obviously in some cases this deeper type of accountability is only appropriate within all male or all female groups.

Accountability groups only work when there is trust and openness. This may take a while to develop.

Give it time and START SLOW until you feel that your relationship can progress into these more INTIMATE areas.

Here's the list from Steve Farrar's "Point Man" (Promise Keepers)

1. Have you been with a woman this week in such a way that was inappropriate or could have looked to others that you were using poor judgment?

2. Have you been completely above reproach in all your financial dealings this week?

3. Have you exposed yourself to any explicit material this week?

4. Have you spent daily time in prayer and in the Scriptures this week?

5. Have you fulfilled the mandate of your calling this week?

6. Have you taken time off to be with your family this week?

7. Have you just lied to me?

Actually, Hope Network Ministries exists to coach, mentor and equip spiritual leaders. For that reason we do not use our web site to process doctrinal issues,

denominational peculiarities or personalities.

Rather we use this forum to encourage christian leaders, share ministry resources, coach and respond to questions regarding strategies, systems, skills etc. - things of this nature.

For most stable people this sounds so far out that you may be in DENIAL because your normal mind cannot grasp the depth of people able to work LYING WONDERS.

I wanted to comment on Ronnie’s sermon this past Sunday (5-4-2008). He took his sermon from Romans and specifically the section I wanted to speak to is in Romans 14. I do not believe that Paul was talking about people within the same Faith. I can almost say for certain that he was speaking of people with different Faiths. Those faiths included eastern religion that had practices far different than those practiced by the followers of Jesus. I believe that the people that congregated together were of like mind in how they should do “church”. For example, in Stafford, TX on Ave. E there is the most beautiful Hindu Temple. Hinduism believes that one can be of any religion, yet their faith is still Hindu. They can sit in any church and not violate their faith. Their religion is very open, their faith is very strong. If they were to be converted to a belief in Jesus, they would have a lot of adjusting in their hearts. Inside their temple is a statue/Idol which is tended to daily. They will change the robes on this statue at least every two days, food will be placed in front of it regularly and the windows and doors are opened and shut depending on weather and the light. I think Paul was saying to Christians, then and now, accept these people as souls that God cares for and do not belittle them, and keep your comments between you and God(vs. 22). We should minister to them in the love of Jesus. I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?

When Jesus called his faithful, he told them to leave everything and follow him. During Jesus time, knowing how to provide food on a daily basis would be important to a mass of people, like fishing for food would have been. He did not turn to his followers and say, my ministry could use a few your nets and boats for fishing to feed people. He did not say, this ability you have mastered, would make my ministry more appealing to people and bring more people to knowing God. Nothing like the messages that Ronnie has been teaching the congregation about the musical service that he believes needs to be implemented, so as to attract or satisfy people. No on the contrary! Jesus said leave everything, your fishing nets, boats, bait, everything and follow me in Faith! Could we not say, as we follow Jesus example, that we need nothing to be more appealing to others than our heart, the spirit within us, which is God’s gift to everyone! Now in love, who should we follow?

Robert,

I appreciate you givning your thoughts on Ronnie and Romans 14. I don't agree with your conclusions (it seems evident to me, and most all scholars, that Paul was talking about and to Christians and their differing beliefs on what Paul deemed to be non-essential matters), but at least your thougths were specific to Ronnie's sermon. This is unlike Ken's modus operandi, where he simply takes things he wrote years ago, and repackages them for each on his new conspiracy theories (see http://www.piney.com/BibRom14Text.html for evidence).

I will also add that no one who has listened to Ronnie's sermon from this last Sunday (May 18th) could ever conclude that Ronnie follows anything other than the Word of God, and that only.

I have personally witnessed the good at First Colony, how lives have been changed from serving self to serving God, and how God is using the leaders and members at First Colony for advancement of God's kingdom and His glory. And I personally witnessed how Ken is tearing down God's kingdom.

Robert, this is the usual mantra to prove that it gives THEM the right to bring THEIR doubtful disputations into the "school of the Bible" and YOU have no right to object. The fact is, Paul was consigning all of the SELF-speak and self composed non-Biblical sermons and songs to the MARKETPLACE along with all other defiling or polluting practices.

It simply is not possible to even hallucinate turning a Church of Christ into a musical worship center without being terminally ignorant or terminally evil. The cards are ALL stacked against the latter day upstarts but they put on their blinders and pretend that the radical associaton with Satan, warriors, sacrificial sacrificers, prostitutes and Sodomites does not exist.

I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?

What he is saying is that he wants to SPLIT the congregation so that his planned discorders can have their OWN church and drive many of the owners out into the cold. You are not speaking of a doctrinal problem you are speaking of the personification of evil.

It is abundantly clear that the GOAL is to go fully instrumental. They want to pollute the owners building with what they consider sinful and ANTI-Biblical and use psychological violence to keep them from RUNNING--but they will.

Those discipled in the Bible know that using MACHINES in the worship of a Holy God is universally condemned in the Bible and all of church history. It is always in the Bible a MARK of those telling God to: "Shut your face." If you are going to be DIVISIVE then Ronnie should do the minimally ethiical thing and go to a church already SERVING those who want to do "machine worship." It certainly shows that Ronnie is bound to get his way--spite of hell. Let him try to get the Baptist or Christian church to be so radically foolish.

They should have those opinions to themselves. They are NOT to be received in the church in order to accomodate their views. By teacing "that which is written" with one mind and one mouth in romans 15 the singers and instrument players could still practice their diet but they could NOT bring their charismatic MUSICAL practices into the ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible--ONLY.

In fact, Ronnie Norman and all of those who begin the GUILT TRIP do not have a remote clue that Paul was EXCLUDING the marketplace practices FROM the ekklesia or school of the Bible. Now, Ronnie wants to IMPOSE HIS doubtful disputations on the OWNERS and force the total assembly to MAKE USE of that which Paul OUTLAWED. You don't have to be bright to be a

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The three SECTS in Rome could be identified by where where they bought their food in the Agora or marketplace: The Orphics were bean eaters, the phythagorans had similar diet and the Dionysiacs were meat eaters and wine drinkers.

You IDENTIFIED them by their diet--mostly taken in the food stalls--but they were all highly addicted to singing and using musical instruments to AROUSE their feelings which Paul OUTLAWS for the ekklesia or School of the Bible in Romans 15.

The phythagorans: They had a large number of superstitious abstinences and dos and don'ts. They abstained from beans, did not break bread, did not eat from a whole loaf, and did not eat the heart (of their sacrifices). Example superstitions, such as not touching a white cock, not stepping over a crossbar, not stirring a fire with an iron, not plucking a garland etc. are too tedious to list here but can be seen in Burnet (ibid., p. 96).

There is no doubt this concept was entirely religious and selective. They also viewed music and astronomy as sister sciences. They used music to purge the soul and medicine to purge the body. Such methods of purifying the soul were familiar in the Orgia of the Korybantes and thus explains the Pythagorean interest in Harmonics (Burnet, pp. 97-98).

This is the PHARMAKIA or SORCERY in Revelation 18 speaking of singers, speakers and instrument players. Apollo or Apollyon who USED the muses as his musical worship team was the father of harmony, twanging the bowstring to send forth singing arrows, homosexual worship, thieves and liars. He claimed that MUSIC purged the Spirit through EXTERNAL MEANS.

Of the Dionysius meat eaters and wine drinkers.

Instruments, especially flutes and drums, were used to induce ecstasy, or frenzy, in the worshippers of certain deities. The devotees of Thracian Dionysus (Bacchus) engaged in orgies at night. Members of the society were seized with a divine madness as they danced to the music and would seize an animal who was believed to be the incarnation of the god, tear the body limb from limb, and eat it on the spot. By this sacred communion theyhoped to attain union with their god and themselves become Baccoi . There was a wave of Bacchic enthusiasm that swept Italy in 185 B.C. and created such a scandal that it was sternly repressed by the Roman senate." (Green, William M., The Church Fathers and Musical Instruments" unpublished paper, p. 32).

"Dionysus certainly roves more than the other gods; the traditional picture of him is not one of him sitting sedately on Olympus sipping nectar and listening to the Muses (9 females) sing.

Rather it is one of him roaming through the wilderness,
thrysus (a {shaking} reed bound with ivy and topped with a pine cone) in hand,

followed by bands of ecstatic women, his Bacchants, and spreading the art of cultivation of vines and of wine-making. Other gods may leave Olympus, but it is not habitual with them as it is with dionysus.

The CLERGY hoped that John the Baptist wore SOFT clothing but Jesus said he was not a SHAKEN REED: that is, he was not one of those homosexual, musical prophesiers who "bound the flesh and spirit together with homosexuality."

Here is a PICTURE of the Dionysiacs or "meat eaters and wine drinkers" Maybe this is a clue as to why they want to IMPOSE on decent people that which Paul outlawed in Romans 14 and Jesus outlawed when He cast out the musical minstrels like dung and consigned the "pipers, dancers and singers" to the MARKETPLACE:



This is why the hair stands up on the back of STRAIGHTS back and they FLEE Babylon. They may not realize that the MARK has been flashed but it is time for those with Spirit to not look back for their stolen property but run for their lives.

If Ronnie thinks Paul gave THESE people the permission to DOUBTFUL DISPUTE and bring on the REPROACHES he guards against then someone has a serious problem:

Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Psa. 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me

2781. cherpah, kher-paw´; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda:—rebuke, reproach(-fully), shame.

2778. haraph, khaw-raf´; a primitive root; to pull off, i.e. (by implication) to expose (as by stripping); specifically, to betroth (as if a surrender); figuratively, to carp at, i.e. defame; denominative (from 2779) to spend the winter:--betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.

There is doubt among early writers that Lucifer did Adam in by sodomy and promised to keep the same shameful act on Jesus. The literature and language of the Bible indicates that they MUSICALLY MOCKED Jesus to the Cross and sodomized Him.

The SELF pleasure specificially OUTLAWS all of the performing arts QUARANTINED to the marketplace which "create mental excitement" so that people can CARRY US AWAY which is the meaning of a HERETIC.

HERE IS WHAT IS OUTLAWED WHICH OUTLAWS RONNIE AND ALL OF HIS SHEPHERDING elders who, according to the Lynn Andersion DOGMA intends to "Strip the lambs of all of their secret thoughts

“Disputing” implies a questioning mind and suggests an arrogant attitude by those who assume they’re always right. Arguing with others in the body of Christ is disruptive. That’s why Paul spent the first part of chapter 2 on humility.

As alluded to above, in the NT, dialogismos is used mainly in an evil sense describing reasoning that is the outcome of self-will. Here it describes reasoning of the natural mind in independence of God. In (see note Romans 1:21) it denotes the false notions about God, entertained in opposition to the facts revealed concerning Him in nature. We see this in Matthew's use...

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts (dialogismos), murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (Mt 15:19-20)

More later but Paul is MARKING the people identified by their DIET in the marketplace as being EXCLUDED from the Ekklesia. The second major meaning of PSALLO identifies the polluted red rope used to DRIVE people from the Agora where the sold food, bodies, singing and playing instruments UP TO the PYNX (In Athens) to attend the EKKLESIA which was for VERBAL INSTRUCTION ONLY.

Therefore, as they usually TWIST Scripture, Romans 14-15 MARK Ronnie and his SHEPHERDING movement as NOT ABLE to participate up on the hill at the Ekklesia.

Ken: In this thread you did an excellence job of exposing the dark side of Ronnie Norman at First Colony, and the work of the other wolves feasting on the flock.
Charles: I hope Ken has helped you to wake up and try to stop Ronnie if you can. It sounds like he is to entrenched, your only option is to run.

To God be the Glory
Joe McKnight

Ken,

You continue to violate Paul's command about not judging other believers. For you to continually take worship that helps people in this day and time draw closer to God and twist it into something sexual and perverted, you just reveal your own perverse thinking. Your fruits reveal that you do not have the Spirit of Christ. Only one whose mind is carnal could take something as inspiring as a worship team singing "Our God Is An Awesome God" and see something sexual in it. You may not realize it, but every time you post one of your lengthy discourses on how "contemporary worship" is something sexual in nature, most objective readers can clearly see how much fleshly minded you are. I'm surprised you don't have a link to Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist on here, because it seems you have some things in common with him. Do you have any idea how many people view this site as spiritual pornography?

Looks like you know a lot about the subject of judging people! Do you know anything about the subject of loving people?

The only way to JUDGE people is to actively pass sentence on them: these false teachers do the JUDGING that what they hallucinate TRUMPS all of the Bible and known history. Lying cannot be excused by whining "you're another one." Peter warned you that evil people can PERVERT Paul's writings to their own destruction. I have told you the truth and you will find no Biblical or historical evidence that pagan religious musicians performed "priestly duties" and were always perverts. To their credit, not in the VILEST pagan temple could singers or musicians enter into the Holy Place (type of the church) in 2 Chronicles 29 which they lie about EVEN TO CLEAN OUT GARBAGE left over from pagan musical worship INSIDE of the closed spaces which is THE Abomination of Desolation.

Paul, like Jesus defined two venues: the MARKETPLACE where you might be shunned based on the food stalls. Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers along with all of the perverted religions to the marketplace. And he cast out the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG because they performed ONLY in the marketplaces and NEVER in the ekklesia or church. Flute-girl and prostitute is synonyms.

The ekklesia is DEFINED as for VERBAL instruction ONLY. Poetry and music is EXCLUDED by the word SPEAK because poets and musicians were RESTRICTED to writing MYTHS and never TRUE FACTS. You have fallen into what I accuse you of when you WORSHIP the team singing about a AWESOME God when it is AWEFUL GOD who intends to burn up all of the dogs and sorcerers. A TRUE church would let some manly person teach about an AWEFUL GOD who abandoned musical idolaters without blinking. Paul OUTLAWED discoursing anything doubtful from the "made up" poets and musicians.

Assuredly the Mother of Harlots using speakers, singers and instrumentalists as SORCERERS is an AWESOME GODDESS. But MY God is an AWFUL GOD who will burn you to a crisp for such a perverted approach. You just never even in vile paganism do THAT to a patriarchal god.

http://www.piney.com/MuAwesomeGod.html>

The priests were Khana-Baals. The end-time restoration of the Babylonian religion explains why the clergy are CONSUMING THEIR OWN flock as God pours out His wrath. They try to destroy the SEED OF CHRIST and SOW THE SEED OF THE SERPENT. See Hislop on the AWESOME cannabal eaters of FRUITS.

http://www.piney.com/Hisl71.html>

The history of S.U.N. worship now being urged to replace S.O.N. is the MARK and all of those "agents" were marked as sexually confused.

The Grand Inquisitor, Fyodor Dostoyevsky

http://www.piney.com/PrDostoy.html>

Ronnie Norman WARNS about NOT JUDGING but the same PERSONA of the hypocrites Jesus warns against is clear to anyone who can read the whole chapter in context.

JUDGE not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1. Ronnie Norman of First Colony Church of Christ is manipulating a Church of Christ into using instrumental music. He will use Old Testament "snippets" which speak if musical instruments to claim that God COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and consistent with those who went before him claim that we would be DISOBEDIENT if we did not use instruments. However, all of the Old Testament mention of instruments identify the serpent in the garden of Eden as a Musical Enchater(ess), Lucifer called that "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden, musical loss of grace at Mount Sinai, IMPOSED animal slaughter with exorcism noise--never called music, panic-driving warrior Levites, prostitutes and Sodomites.

In last week's sermon:

Ronnie speaks of a non-chronological Old Testament and defines the different genres of literature. However, in ALL of those types we see warrior instruments as part of a Gentile-like temple as a curse and MOST of the Prophets--speaking by the Spirit OF Christ--radically condemning instruments as the MARK of people who had refused to listen to the Word and therefore went into captivity. As Ronnie Norman says that Nehemiah should be the last book in the Old Testament, it is interesting that he denies that the King-Clergy-Temple system was by God's command but was imposed because of their sins. He concludes that they were all robbers and PARASITES who stole their inheritance.

Ronnie claims to "Know the Bible pretty well" and claims the Holy Spirit as revealing truth in the black text on white paper and it seems like the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) is often tardy in revealing the coded message. This is consistent with others who have IMPOSED musical instruments claiming visions, audible voices or the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They implicate the Spirit of Christ in lying about all of the proof texts.

The end of the sermon praises the ministry staff by saying that they had studied Matthew 7 about DO NOT JUDGE. I would guess that enough deliberate discord has been sown that people are judging his Holy Spirit revelation as NOT the fact. Therefore, here are some rough notes to prove that this NOT JUDGING points directly to the SECTARIANS as Scribes and Pharisees: he calls THEM hypocrites and Jesus will MARK them as hypocrites by OUTING performance speakers, singers and instrument players. Jesus identified Ezekiel as being seen as NOTHING MORE than perverted performers for a wage.

http://www.piney.com/Matthew7.html

If I planned to deliberately lie, as did his misleaders, about the Bible and claiming that he is led by the Holy Spirit, as they did, is well beyond redemption.

I studied this issue in some detail 24 years ago and reached what I believed to be a sound resolution. I am not professionally trained as a theologian, so that conclusion was based on a reading of readily available English translations of the Bible, specifically the Revised Standard Version, New Amereican Standard Bible, and New International Version, supplemented by some of the early debates on the subject among restoration movement leaders and several other sources. I realized that my conclusions differed from some people whose opinions I valued and respected and who had devoted more time to a study of the issue than had I. I knew that my conclusions were not infallible, but I also recognized that many men with more training and blessed with greater native intelligence and a more spiritual inclination than I differed among themselves on the issue. Those were men who had unquestionable respect for the scriptures and a love for the Lord. That recognition reaffirmed my conclusion that the issue was not as clearly addressed in the New Testament as we would have liked. I believe that God knows how to write a rule book, as evidenced by the specificity of Leviticus, and that his New Testament followers did not deliberately seek to hide the truth from we later followers. So, my conclusion was that the issue was worhty of debate and discussion, but that the discussion should properly be viewed as an inhouse debate among fellow believers, not an argument between sons of God and sons of Satan. I beleived then, and do now, that the Spirit that authored Leviticus would not leave us with any unclarity on a "salvation issue."

I visited this site at the suggestion of someone close to me to see if there were some aspects of the issue being raised that I had not considered 24 years ago and that I should think about. I was disappointed by much of what I read, which seemed to cross the line from good faith debate to anger and hatred. I believe the writers are all men of faith who seek the truth, but the tone of the writings does not seem to be reasonably calculated to either convince those of a different opinion or to draw anyone to Christ. I for one would appreciate a rational discussion of the issue that is based upon a reading of the scriptures as preserved in the English language. I am not comfortable placing my faith in any one man's interpretation of the Greek, because I have read different interpetations of the most applicable texts by men who had significant training in Biblical languages. Since I do not have training in the Biblical languages and have no opportunity to acquire that training from anyone who spoke it or wrote it during the time of Christ and his apostles, I am more comfortable accepting definitions that have been vetted by many scholars of different backgrounds, such as contained in the versions mentioned above.

I appreciate you providing this forum for discussion and I will visit this site again to see if the discussion has progressed in a way that will enlighten me to mistakes in my reasoning or that will raise concerns that I did not think about years ago. However, if the discussion continues to move in the direction of hatred and villification, I believe that the opportunity for members to discuss current issues afforded by this forum will be wasted and will not serve to enlighten or educate any interested party but will merely become another avenue to express anger and bitterness.

My daughter tells me that I cannot speak without sounding like I am lecturing, so I apologize if this sounds like a lecture. I simply believe that the "unity" movement that is and was the American Restoration Movement has witnesses so much strife and discord in the last 110 years that it has lost much of its ability to spread the truth of the Gospel. It would be a pleasant change to see the swords laid down when we enter the temple and a discussion held without name calling, condemnation of motivaions, or immediate threats of splitting congregations. Our movement has not recovered its vitality from the early blood letting. I hope and pray that the manner in which we resolve our inhouse disputes may become a witness to the world around us of the Spirit of Truth and Grace that is so clearly demonstrated in the scriptures. Thank you for the opportunity to express my concern.

Ken has deliberately misled this audience about Ronnie's sermon last Sunday (May 18, 2008). I was there at 2 of the three services (including the one that was recorded). Ronnie's sermon was NOT on Matthew 7. PERIOD. His sermon was on reading the Bible every day, relying only on the Bible for God's guidance, and what can happen when one does not rely only on God's written word. The sermon context and theme was that we have to not only know the Bible through reading it every day, we have to live what we read every day. As an example of reading and studying the Bible every day, Ronnie mentioned the staff has a daily Bible study including memory work. Friday's assignment was Matthew 7. That is the context of how Matthew 7 was included in the sermon. Do not let Ken mislead you. He does not know Ronnie, he does not know the good Godly men that our elders, he does not know our members, and he does not know the Fruit of the Holy Sprit that is seen in the lives of First Colony Church of Christ members and leaders. And he cannot even listen to a recorded sermon and give you accurate information.

There is no attempt at good faith debate: the poster claims that they are godly men led by the Holy Spirit. I deny that because the NAME of the Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ the righteous." He cast out the musical minstrels "like dung" or like an actor is EXPLODED from the stage. He marked the MEN of that age as CHILDREN piping hoping to get others to sing and dance. He consigned them to the MARKETPLACE where Paul consigned the "diversities" of the three sects in Rome. It was prophesied and undoubtedly fulfilled that Jesus was musically mocked right up to the cross. Godly men simply do not let themselves be led into the deliberate sowing of discord and using what I AM CERTAIN is lying about every mention of an instrument and DRAGGING the flock back under the wolves of the cursed sacrificial system.

I see that the sermons have been BLOCKED but I can supply the rebuttal without hearing a word Ronnie intends to say. Because he has launched out on an evil trajectory, past events show that he will continue and make allowances for the deliberate discord in order to get his way. As in other events which I am aware of there is an ELDERESS at the helm.

I know the play book for all of the DIVERSIONS to musical instruments. We began by supplying some Biblical background and suggesting that Ronnie has never read the context of the examples he is going to use. These are all from the NACC operatives and there is nothing new since O.E.Payne's list of proof for the word PSALLO.

Because he did not LAY OUT the Rick Atchley material nor continue the series about, it seems that Ronnie needed to defend his credentials. Or maybe someone set him straight that neither he nor the elders have the authority to drive out the owners who have INVESTED in what they thought was a Church of Christ.

I don't see why anyone needs to consider it not "tender" enough to point out that Matthew utterly repudiates exactly what Ronnie is trying to do. If consistent with the other events the elders have been replaced by SHEPHERDS ready to lay on the same musical burden Jesus died to remove.

I felt compelled to supply some clear definitions of words in Matthew 7 and point out that Jesus was pointing to the Scribes and Pharisees. Because only those opposing him are charged with PASSING JUDGMENT I "feel" that there will--as usual--follow a Hegelian effort to silence sincere opposition by defining it as passing judgment. I am guessing but that is the usual PATTERNISM and part of navigating the winds of change: another slap at perverse performances in Ephesians 4 which LIMITES the role of the elder as the SOLE Pastor-Teacher of the flock: they are not to entertain the goats.

The "genre" concept should be explained to prove that there is no type of literature, in or our of chronological order which does not connect the musical instrument in a religious sense to Satan, making war, animal slaughter exorcism (which God DID NOT command), prostitutes or Sodomites. Even at bear bones the Bible being NOT METRICAL is one of those absolutes to MARK the "destruction of patriarchal religion by small acts of treachery."

Explaining Niceta Markus notes:

Or lyric poetry, which requires not a reader, but a chorus and a harp-accompaniment? They will respond that in these instances recitation has been established by custom.

In fact, behind the criticisms of the epic recital often lie issues about the performance of gender and social status.

In that regard, epic's position is parallel to that of rhetoric. Beginning with Aristotle's Rhetorica (1404a), critics of rhetorical performance have ascribed to lively delivery the same effect as that of acting. There is a persistent association between theatrics, bad rhetoric and effeminacy.

That is why Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites by pointing to rhetoricians, singers and instrument players.

His testimony is important as it formulates general expectations about epic performance while at the same time shows that epic can always slide into an effeminate mode of presentation.

Plato identified drama and music as demanding an effeminate style and the danger existed of "gender bleed" so that people BECAME what they performed. Aldus Huxley quoted by Lynn Anderson calls it "spiritual masturbation" and the Vineyard (aka wineskins) identifies it as seeking a sexual-like climax with the spirit. THAT is why masses flee.

On the other hand, God is a FATHER and not a mother and His WORD is a Son and not a daughter: you do not make music to a MALE god.

Epic's social image as a genre that glorifies male heroism has to be consistent with its mode of performance.

None of the Bible is metrical and cannot be sung tunefully even if your life depended on it. However, most people deliberately violate the direct command to use "that which is written with one MIND and one MOUTH."

For Dionysius Thrax, the voice pitched to perform elegy or lyric is inappropriate because of the incongruity it creates between the epic content and its performance.

"We shut ourselves up and write something grand--sometimes in verse, sometimes in prose--something that will take a vast amount of breath to pant out. This stuff you will some day read aloud to the public, combed, with a new toga, all in white, even with a birthday sardonyx gem on your finger; you shall read from a high chair having first lubricated your throat with a delicate wash, with an effeminate leer in your eye.

The Plague stopping animal slaughter by Hezekiah is what Rick Atchley etal use to say that GOD COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and WE SHOULD NOT BE DISOBEDIENT. This is the latest ploy of the NACC to label those who will not AFFIRM that they are CORRECT as ANTI-instrumental. The use of this new antiism is all of the authority you need to TAKE THEM DOWN by foul or fair. I can think of nothing more violent than a group of men closeting themselves and deciding to open the gate to the wolves.

This PROOF proves with ALL of the "proof texts" that it was David who commanded the INSTRUMENTAL part always under the king and COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY.



Payne insists that the Hebrew of 1 Chronicles 25:1 unambiguously identifies these leaders as military commanders, an interpretation favoured by several Bible translations. (Payne, p 423-4; NASB, NIV, NKJV, NRSV, Jerusalem Bible) If military commanders had a particular interest in the appointment of musicians, it suggests a strong link between music and warfare.

No Bible reader could reach any other conclusion and that proves that the shepherds are making war on the flock. If they THINK that the Holy Spirit is giving them DIRECT GUIDANCE then they need to back off and understand that the "spirit" is NOT a holy spirit.

First, an accurate comment by Ken when he said, "There is no attempt at good faith debate." Amen, Ken. You have yet to make any attempt at a good faith effort at debating the indisputable fact of God's good work among the good people and Godly leaders at First Colony Church of Christ.

Now for the corections.

Ken said, "I see that the sermons have been BLOCKED." This is UNTRUE. I just went to the website and listend to the May 18th sermon on-line. You are trying and failing again to deceive the body of Christ.

Ken said, "the poster claims that they are godly men led by the Holy Spirit. I deny that because the NAME of the Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ the righteous."" Again this is a deception, Ken, because you cannot deny the Godly character and Godly spirit of people you have never known. You do not know Ronnie. You do not know the Godly men who are the elders at First Colony. You do not know the Godly Christians who are the staff and other ministers. You do not know the Godly men who are the deacons. You do not know the Godly people who make up the membership at First Colony. You are not part of the body of Christ at First Colony Church of Christ. You are not of the flock of Jesus at First Colony Church of Christ. You do not know the fruit of the Holy Spirit that permeates and flows through First Colony Church of Christ.

You are an outsider.

Come down to First Colony Church of Christ. Sit down and talk with one of the elders. Get to know the body of Christ that meets at First Colony Church of Christ.

The podcast is available again.

The point was that the "leaders" made the decision to sow musical discord WITHOUT any debate. The survey as simple simons know is to lead you into accepting the preordained outcome. They do not intend to entertain any DEBATE and one suspects that their agent is pushing the standard fodder to disqualify one from knowing what the Bible universally says about "instruments" UNLESS they "know the heart" of those who are Purpose Driven to lie about all of the Bible. Otherwise, the self proclained scholar would debate the issue here. This forum speaks for those in that church who know with certainty that they had better not question the shepherds about the wolves slinking around. I deny that they are godly men because they would never agree to be SHEPHERDS of a Shepherding Scheme to make cultic control better. It is not remotely possible that they are both APT and ready to impose what all of church scholarship rejects.

There is NOTHING in the heart of elders undoubtedly under bondage to one CLAIMING Biblical authority which can TRUMP the clear Biblical commands. In Amos, they could not use women and music in their worship AS LONG as they had a "good mental attitude" any more than a man and his son could USE the same temple prostitute if they had a SPIRITUAL HEART.

The BIG proof text that God COMMANDED US TO DO INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE (whaever that be) is 2 Chronicles 29 and "We should not be disobedient" means that it is now SINFUL if you do NOT use "machines for doing hard work" in the Church of Christ.

The previous table proves that they do not honestly read the passage which ALWAYS attributes the "musical" instruments to David. David was a king and kings were chosen to carry out the captivity and death sentence imposed BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

The people or congregation are NEVER the general population but the kingly-priestly operatives operating a NATIONAL system which God imposed when the ELDERS made the fatal flaw of hiring a SENIOR PASTOR. The Kings were not the worship leaders nor did they prescribe worship: they did what all pagan kings did. However, not in the vilest pagan temple could the military musicians or the priestly trumpet blowers enter into the Holy Places or "come NEAR" the sacred things. Therefore, any PATTERNISM would keep them outside in the parking lot.

2Chr. 7:4 Then the king and all the people offered sacrifices before the LORD.
2Chr. 7:5 And king Solomon offered a sacrifice

of twenty and two thousand oxen, and
an hundred and twenty thousand sheep:
so the king and all the people dedicated the house of God.

2Chr. 7:6
And the priests waited on their offices:

the Levites also with instruments of musick of the LORD,
which David the king had made to praise the LORD,
because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry;

and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.

SOUNDED DOES NOT MUSIC MAKE: never from Genesis to Revelation other than from Satan.

Even if you could find a DIRECT COMMANDE for the King and commanders of the army to USE the "levitical warrior musicians' to LEAD the worship--and you imposed it--you would be moving the group BACK beyond the cross and under a CURSED "national" or pagan sacrificial system. God never commanded sacrifices not "enjoyed them." Once they had fallen into the "worship of the starry host" God QUARANTINED them behind walls which EXCLUDED the common people.

There is nothing in the SCHOLARLY data base for training preachers which would hint that the best Bible or Hebrew or Greek person would know what is going on in the Bible. The "approach" is not able to read whole contexts within the long story line of the Old Testament. Rather, no one seems capable of being willing to put their SOULS on the crap table and demand that a thousand or so follow the leader, without lifting proof texts or even the raw ASSERTIONS that the verse says what is asserted. Because that is the SYSTEM you cannot depend on those prepared to pontificate for yout souls.

Again, I want to tell you that THERE IS NO LAW OF GIVING and those who are willing to gamble your soul on one throw of the dice need to KNOW that even if there was an OFFICE called preacher it is UNFUNDED. That makes its funding dishonest and the only way to keep the boat from sinking is to not PRETEND to go from begger to master just because people are so simple that they will give you both their coat and cloak. But, woe upon those who TAKE and then betray.

God sent me with all of the authority I need or this forum needs which never responds unless some lamb is being fleeced and dares to bleat. Why should the members have to find a forum.

Thank you for your note, Donnie.

One of the elders spoke to the deacons this week and said the survey results wi be released soon. Many members had questions, and the elders want to first answer every question as part of the survey results. I have been persoally called by one of the elders about my questions, and I have sat down and visited with another for about two hours.

My point to this forum is that Ken does not know what he is talking about when he attacks fellow believers whome he does not know and, by all indication, has no intention to get to know. Christ said we can know a person's charcter by their fruit. I have personally seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in these elders, in Ronnie, and in this Church. I have persobally seen God working through Ronnie, the elders, and many of the members at First Colony to turn hearts from serving self to serving Jesus and being baptised into His name. Ken has never taken the time to. He makes one misleading statement after another. I have no choice but to conclude that he is either lying, or he doesn't care to find out the truth.

I will share what I can when it is available.

Let me encourage all of my FCCC family members to NOT send or post any more in-house information to this site (letters, e-mails, surveys, etc.) for 3 reasons:

1. It’s obvious that Ken and those who have an issue with our elders’ decision will not accept anything you have to say.

2. Rather, they will use what you pass along from our leaders to continue maligning the character of our Elders and gossiping about our church family.

3. Those letters are addressed to FCCC church members. If Ken and others wish to receive the information, then they are welcome place membership at FCCC. If they are (for whatever reason) unwilling to be a part of this body, then, frankly, they should not have a say in our church family’s business.

Some will suggest that this proves our church has something to hide. Not at all. Rather, it is clear that we will not be able to agree on this issue. While I wish we could agree to disagree, it is clear that continuing to debate or provide more FCCC in-house information will only allow mean-spirited individuals an excuse to continue their unfounded attacks on our church family.

TO FC MEMBERS & FAMILY MEMBERS: If you are an FC member or related an FC member and have questions or concerns, then please feel free to contact the church and they will be happy to talk with you or have an elder contact you personally. But please do not participate in maligning the church family of which you or one of your family members is a part. Again, the church's goal isn't to hide things, but to discuss them in a God-honoring fashion. Talk to the church, not about the church.

ONE LAST THING: Ken, while I look forward to giving you a hug in heaven, let me ask you a question. Why are you wasting your time with people like us who you obviously view as lost (and won’t change their position) instead of dedicating that energy to reaching out to those in YOUR community who don’t know Jesus and you can bless? You are obviously passionate about the Lord. Why not use that passion constructively?

I look forward to seeing you all at FCCC this Sunday morning as we worship the risen savior, Jesus Christ!

God Bless,

Josh

Dear Member,

The elders appreciate our congregation’s response to the recent survey regarding the instrumental service your church leadership is exploring. As we mentioned earlier, this survey was not a “vote” but a simple means designed to provide some feedback. We would like to update you with the results of the survey which are as follows.


There were 752 responses to this group of questions:

1. My Preference is instrumental and I would attend the instrumental ervice-9.2%
2. I enjoy both a cappella and instrumental and would attend either.-53.6%
3. My preference is a cappella but I can allow an instrumental option for others.-28.4%
4. My choice is a cappella and I do not believe that an instrumental option should be allowed-8.8%

Not everyone indicated a time or start date preference, but of those 658 respondents who indicated a time preference, the survey reflected that if we were to have an instrumental service, 57.4% indicated that the IM service should be the 11:00 service. Also, of the 568 respondents that indicated a start date, 67.0% indicated the IM service should begin in the fall of 2008.

Your elders will now begin a period of prayer and contemplation, and we call upon you to also pray for the elders in making the best decision for our church family. We anticipate communicating more with you regarding this topic by late summer.

If you have not had a chance to hear the teachings of Ronnie Norman or Rick Atchley, then we ask you to call the church office and request these presentations. They will be mailed to you at no cost.

We thank you again for your good spirit, prayers and support. May our God continue to bless us as we aim to please Him in all things.

In Christ,

For your elders
Lacy Spears, Chairman

My point to this forum is that Ken does not know what he is talking about when he attacks fellow believers whome he does not know and, by all indication, has no intention to get to know. Christ said we can know a person's charcter by their fruit. I have personally seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in these elders, in Ronnie, and in this Church. I have persobally seen God working through Ronnie, the elders, and many of the members at First Colony to turn hearts from serving self to serving Jesus and being baptised into His name. Ken has never taken the time to. He makes one misleading statement after another. I have no choice but to conclude that he is either lying, or he doesn't care to find out the truth.

I pointed out that it is RONNIE who I am certain has bamboozled some elders who does not intend to DEBATE. As in all of the patternism of his small band of preachers he told you what you should believe BEFORE the survey was taken. Furthermore, elders do not get themselves into taking a poll when the Bible is filled and church history agrees that religious music is the MARK of no spiritual act or person in recorded history.

There is nothing you can see and no minds to be read which trumps the Bible and the planned deliberate sowing of discord. If Ronnie reads off the script of Rick he is spoon fed by the NACC who turned so many coats that they gave up the "unity forums" after 25 years of sowing discord. If you could CONVERT all of the people in Texas it would not change a dot or t of the Bible and all of church history and universally DIVISIVENESS by those who imposed music. You must not judge yourself by yourself. If Ronnie repeats Rick and the other PURPOSE DRIVEN SMALL TEAM then he is lying about every Biblical passage and church history. How could you support the deliberate sowing of discord to drive many owners (1/3 at Quail Springs) OUT of their church home and destroy families. Your ONLY part of God's plan is to PLANT and WATER and music has always been a legalistic way to speed up God's plans.







Tell people that Ken is a liar when he tells you that Jesus cast out the musical minstrels meaning "like dung" before he began His work.

Tell people that Ken lied when he quoted that Jesus called the MEN of that generation just CHILDREN piping in the marketplace trying to make people sing and dance?

Tell people that Ken is a liar for quoting John identifying as SORCERERS the end-time mother of harlots using "lusted after fruits" as rhetoricians, singers, instrument players and craftsmen meaning "theater builders and stage managers."

Then tell people why there is such a well-prepared "boiling the frog" lust to IMPOSE instruments on a church known NOT to have fallen into that trap for 2,000 years? Wouldn't your people have more credibility if they had NOT collected a flock as a Church of Christ and then turning it into a venue for what Jesus identified as hypocrites. Even now, wouldn't your protestations be more logical if they decided that they needed to leave WITHOUT taking the church with them.

I am sorry but the only way to read spirits is by their actions and they are absolutely misinformed or not spiritual. In any case, an elder HAS the duty NOT to take on what is now COMMAND AUTHORITY as brain surgeron without lots of training. I hope you will read the long material: when people squirt a drop of black acid into a glass of white milk you cannot restore it without LOTS of prayer and study. You cannot be an enabler without being guilty. I think the only thing the elders can do is to honorably resign and restudy: you need a preacher who does expository Bible study which will prevent you from being a mega church.

I am not a preacher and not on the dole so I have no conflict of interest other than to support those who have gone through an affliction of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS since the NACC using a few preachers decided that we should UNIFY by adding instruments or SHUT OUR MOUTHS about opposing it.

Ken,

You judge what you do not know. You judge what you only can guess at. You cannot comprehend that your arguments do not have support from the scriptures, and those you oppose know this. You cannot comprehend that good Christians and Godly men and leaders read the same scriptures and serve God in a righteous way that may differ from you. You cannot accept that you are wrong about many things at First Colony, even when one who knows the truth places the truth before you very eyes. There has been no poll at First Colony to determine what to do. There has been a survey to measure feedback from the congregation, and that feedback so far has been overwhelming supportive of the Godly men who lead First Colony.

You method of attack is the same at all the congregations you oppose. You iseargiments you write years ago and simply repackage them when you target a congregation to attack. You attack only the preacher by name because he is a "public" figure. The elders names are known but you do not attack them by name. Could it be that this is your slick way to avoid slander? You assume that all of these congregations you oppose is because of some smooth talikng preacher has led all of the elders and members astray.

And when you get tired of First Colony, you will turn your attention on another congregation to meddle with and attempt to sow division.

You are a sad person, and you are in a great need of mercy and grace.

You are in my prayers that God will soften your heart, forgive you for being a devisive person, and show you more mercy than you have ever shown congregations and preachers you oppose.

Because I quote the Bible and universal Classical, Church Fathers, denominational scholars and the universal sowing of musical discord you will have to EXCUSE me if I do not spend man years digging it up all over again when some SILENCED member cries out for help. There is only a small band of the original intenders so my work has been limited EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been WORKING this diversion for more than a decade. A look-alike in Texas is under a lawsuit from a member demanding his contributions plus expenses back. I would think that any person who gave under the ploy of being A Church of Christ (defacto not instrumental) and then was forced to leave would be lining up for a class-action. However, I am sure that the expansion, finances and legal documents have been taken care of. I hear you doing psychological violence? No, no one you know has ever read the context or story line they are using to impose spiritual affliction on you. Sounds like you are going to let FRIENDSHIPS trump the BIBLE and the weeping widows who will be forced out into the cold.

Here is the end-time prophecy which is identical to the beginning time when "lucifer was the singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden:

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [seed pickers]

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

So, since that is what John promised you it seems like you are ready to put your sou on the preachers rigged crap table

Here is one I just did since part of the MANTRA is that the Church Fathers had no objections to the use of Instrumental music. That is strange because they all opposed it and linked it to the universal effeminate worship of Israel after they were abandoned to "worship like the starry hosts."

Here is what Arnobius wrote c 4th century. Because you will never find a single exception to what I have said, I would worry a whole lot that ready for Y2K a very small band of people had the DRIVEN PURPOSE to restructure all Churches of Christ.






I assure you that you will find NO exception: if you want to blame the SHOT person for bleeding on your DANCING SLIPPERS then that also is a BAD MARK. Why is it that I and ALL recorded history you or any scholar will ever find are WRONG and those with a conflict of interest are suddenly RIGHT. They will claim that as postmoderns they are, in the words of Shelly, "working out their own salvation" by taking liberties with the sifted Bible to write THEMSELVES into a more powerful than Jesus.

I got around to listening to Ronnie's first sermon where he gives some of his proof texts. The first part is a pretty judgmental putdown of why the Church of Christ DIVIDED and ADDED. It is a lack of Bible and Restoration history to assume that The Church of Christ was ever a PART of the Disciples denomination. Those who met and agreed to do some things together in 1932 included only those preachers represented. Any ability to work on things like missions was destroyed in 1848-49 when the Baptist "converts" began to build a denominational SOCIETY. The final blow was in 1959 when the Christian Churches began to DIVIDE their own congregations by imposing the ORGAN. At first only the ORGAN would be allowed to AID the singing much like a pitchpipe. Those stealing the church in Newbern, TN solemnly promised the Judge that it was ONLY and aid but the Judge saw through that. They further said that IF the organ (only the organ) was ever used AS WORSHIP then it would be sinful.

The Church of Christ denied the Disciples claim that they BELONGED to them in the 1906 census count. The Disciples already had a full blown TOP DOWN denomination defined and published (I have a copy of the goals c. 1908.

The Christian church Ronnie thinks we DIVIDED FROM did not sect out until the NACC was formed in 1927: they were still part of the DISCIPLES until from about the 1968 restructure to maybe 1971. That was when they began to claim that WE sected out of them and they began very divisive efforts to peel off a few dupes. They finally stopped their Unity Meetings after 25 years with utter failure to capture more than a handful of men already CONVERTED to go instrumental. Ronnie admits to the slow "boil the frog" by a long incubation period of instruments in other VENUES. If (the will) go instrumental they will go SLOW. That is the old gradualism they have conspired to use. IF they believed their own teaching they would NOT try to slip up on you.

I will review some other parts of his first musical sermon but I have put together some 2 Chronicles 5 which Ronnie and others use to show that God must have been in charismatic ecstasy when he heard those 120 horns all blown in unison and with ONE SOUND. One note doeth not music make. The KABOD or DARKNESS was proof that God would NO LONGER be available down on Zion around David's tent. The preacher problem is that bonded buddies pour out all of those tidbits without even caring about the message because there was no training in the Old Testament or any Bible beyond the "dry husk of the sweet onion."

Pity that someone with a teaching persona has wasted it on trying to drag you back under the curse of the Monarchy which God IMPOSED to carry out the captivity and death sentence.

This will show up on my pages early in the morning minus proof reading. And, you guessed it, when I quote the evidence it will look EXACTLY like it did refuting Milton Jones (stole my old church), Chris Seidman, Max Lucado, Rick Atchley, Mark Henderson and MOST of the Christian Church false teachers such as Tom Burges, David Faust and all of the others who REPEAT what O.E.Payne compiled about a century ago.

http://www.piney.com/2.Chronicles.5.html

Not to boast, but you will not find this information anywhere else: I have about 20 man years in it and I nor anyone else will find any religious MUSIC which is not the mark and cause of effeminacy. We have too much already.

"Not to boast, but you will not find this information anywhere else"

There is a reason why we will not find this information anywhere else.

Can you please give ma any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you

You never do the "vote" until you have your conclusion guaranteed. We are not to worry too much, God gives us the right to rejoice when those who shed the blood of the Prophets (by the voice of the Spirit of Christ) as the "kings set over us" are God-sentenced to carry out their destruction to the beat of instrumental noises. The words of their mouth will burn them up.

We don't know who was qualified to vote but it looks like half didn't participate. The young probably gives them the authority to destroy the happiness of their parents while teling them "get over it or get out."





[Page adjusted]

Lucifer (Zoe) is called the singing and harp playing prostitute. In the Gnostic literature which really begins in Babylon 3,000 years before Moses, ZOE is called the "Beast and female instructing principle."

The Mother Goddess is marked as a beast and SHE marks the "lusted after fruits" with the urge to expose themselves in the holy places where it is claimed that they can call down the gods: in paganism this was always for a "knowing" or sexual encounter with the gods. That is why originally females were happy to be musical "harem of the gods."

Only after David and the kingdom had been abandoned to worship the starry host did males begin to PERFORM religious music: among the Jews the psaltery marked the prostitute, the singing was falsetto and their style was alamoth or like the virgin girls.

In the end time the Mother of Harlots is well defined in the Classics and used by John to WARN that they should not TAKE THE MARK: The book of Enoch and other commentaries prove that when you have been MARKED by associating musical madness with the Holy Spirit you have fallen and you will never get back up. That is why CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE.

I have collected some ways you can see and hear the MARKS of those trying to "engrave" the music of the "holy whores" upon your spirit:

http://www.piney.com/Mark.Beast.Colony.html

The NACC use the writings of Plutarch to justify imposing instruments (machines) into peacable churches but ALL of thes proof texts are MARKED as perverted males:

Plutarch of Chaeronea held that the God of the Jews was none other than Dionysos. "First the time and character of the greatest, most sacred holiday of the Jews clearly befit Dionysos. When they celebrate their so-called Fast, at the height of the vintage, they set out tables of all sorts of fruit under tents and huts plaited for the most part of vines and ivy.

They call the first of the two days Tabernacles. A few days later they celebrate another festival, this time identified with Bacchos not through obscure hints but plainly called by his name, a festival that is a sort of 'Procession of Branches' or 'Thyrsos Procession' in which they enter the Temple each carrying a thyrsos.

What they do after entering we do not know, but it is probable that the rite is a Bacchic revelry, for in fact they use little trumpets to invoke their God as do the Argives at their Dionysia.

Others of them advance playing harps; these players are called in their language Levites, either from 'Lysios' or better, from 'Euois.'

Hislop and most scholars agree.

http://www.piney.com/His75.html

No wonder that it came at last to be firmly believed that the Messiah, on whom the hopes of the world depended, was Himself the "seed of the serpent"! This was manifestly the case in Greece; for the current story there came to be,

that the first Bacchus was brought forth in consequence of a connexion on the part of his mother with the father of the gods, in the form of a "speckled snake." *

* OVID, Metam. So deeply was the idea of "the seed of the serpent" being the great World-king imprinted (marked) on the Pagan mind, that when a man set up to be a god upon earth, it was held essential to establish his title to that character,

that he prove himself to be the "serpent's seed."

Thus, when Alexander the Great claimed divine honours, it is well known that his mother Olympias, declared that he was not sprung from King Philip, her husband, but from Jupiter, in the form of a serpent. In like manner, says the authoress of Rome in the 19th Century, the Roman emperor,

"Augustus, pretended that he was the son of Apollo, and that the god had assumed the form of a serpent for the purpose of giving him birth."

Maybe that is why the NACC appeal to Alexender to prove that psallo means to PLAY AN INSTRUMENT. Well, it does not it just meant to "pluck" and his father was disgusted that Alexander could PLUCK so skillfully knowing the eternal MARK of seducing a young man--a youth minister of the mother goddess.

That is why Jesus, John and Peter called them a RACE OF VIPERS or a CROOKED GENERATION.

Skolios A. curved, bent (opp. orthos, euthus) muthos
III. skolion, to, intestine, splanchana kai nephron kai skolion

Muthos used with tragoidia, mimesis, poetes etc. Latin fabula II. In partic. (freq. and class.), a fictitious narrative, a tale, story; 1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play;

Which is OUTLAWED for all TRUTH WRITERS.

Donnie, you have madequite a few erroneous assumptions about First Colony. Is it the Christ-like thing to make assumptions about what you have not asked? The answer is no, it is not the Christ-like thing to do. From the beginning of First Colony, it has been the goal to have approximately 1 elder per 100 members. Graned, there is not specific Biblial statement for this, it is not without Biblical example, e.g. the 100 sheep, the centurion.

Second, you erroneously stated, "Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural."

The message on the website on baptism is very clear and goes well beyond your error.

The FCCC website also states on baptism, "baptism is clearly commanded as part of the process of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. '...God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, ‘Brothers, what shall we do?’ Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:36-38"

The same explanation of baptism also states, "When one submits to be baptized as an expression of faith and out of love for God, God fully
and completely forgives that individual’s sins and adds that person to His church. The change in relationship with God does not come because we merit or deserve it. It is God’s power, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, that works the salvation of man. God only requires that we submit in trusting obedience. 'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.' Ephesians 2:8-9"

First Colony's teachings of baptism and its relation to faith, forgiveness of sins, becoming one with Christ is entirely consistent with both the scriptures and the Churches of Christ.

Nothing has been hidden or disguised, as you accuse. The leaders at First Colony and the website HAVE made the message plain and scriptural.

That is the problem with this slanderous forum - it makes accusations without seeking the whole truth, or getting to know at all those who are being accused.

"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." ~ J. Edgar Hoover

Shepherd means to "feed" the flock: Peter commanded that the elders are the only pastor-teachers. They are limited to "teach that which has been taught" and Jesus denied that even the apostles had command authority." Therefore, the elders have usurped the role of Jesus and the whole body.

Shepherding elders were chosen as a SEPARATE class and because the FLOW CHART has Ronnie Norman as facilitator of change for a long period and the LAUNCH date was at a Shepherding conference as Lynn Anderson as the Chief Shephard, I think you have something going on more like a cult than an ekklesia or school of the Bible. The ekklesia like the Synagogue met weekly for BIBLE STUDY ONLY and there is no MANDATE to go beyond that and ASSUREDLY no funding because there is NO Law of Laying By in Store: that would be, like music, rank legalism and attempt to silence the LAMBS.

Here is the Shepherding Movement as the ONLY rational for Shepherding Elders.

1. Have you been with a woman this week in such a way that was inappropriate
or could have looked to others that you were using poor judgment?
2. Have you been completely above reproach in all your financial dealings this week?
3. Have you exposed yourself to any explicit material this week?
4. Have you spent daily time in prayer and in the Scriptures this week?
5. Have you fulfilled the mandate of your calling this week?
6. Have you taken time off to be with your family this week?
7. Have you just lied to me?

Shepherding leads the flock to FOOD ONLY: they protect the flock from dogs and wolves (Acts 20 the mark of the Cynics). Music makes the "sounds of rushing waters" and that would be an intention to frighten or intimidate the flock: defining why all music terms speak of inducing the "spiritual anxiety" Jesus died to remove or the "self-pleasure" Paul outlawed for what he always calls a SYNAGOGUE; The synagogue outlawed both vocal and instrumental rejoicing. Music is the mark of SILENCING THE LAMB OF GOD which is proven by the nature of the sermons and both resource and presentaiton method of music.

MYTHS means "to shut the EYES and MOUTH." Music (noise) in all sacrificial systems intended to SHUT THE MOUTH of the victime while they perpetuated VIOLENCE against the innocent lusting that the SCAPE GOAT would carry away their own sins.

Acts 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this,
He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
and like a lamb dumb before his shearer,
so opened he not his mouth:

He WAS and IS our scapegoat: THAT IS THE MARK OF THE MUSICIANS.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Is. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed.

Wounded is

H2490 châlal
khaw-lal' (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485 ) to play (the flute): defile,break, defile, X eat (as common things), take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.



This is applied to LUCIFER being cast as profane out of heaven. She/he/it was in the garden of Eden as a singing and harp playing prostitute. As connected to Tyre, she used music to steal other people's property and to 'steal souls' into slaver.

Is. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth. Isa 53:7

A version of Psalm 41 and others understood the language. That Judas would not triumph over Jesus means that his attempt would fail at "making vocal and instrumental rejoicing" always a warrior concept intending to intimidate the enemy. The IMPOSING of instrumental music as First Colony is a "spite of hell" intention to TRIUMPH OVER the masses of the church which has repudiated him and the other small band of deliberate discorders. Like Judas, the triumph will be short and the only redemption is at the end of a rope until your body rots and splashes on the ground. The Judas Bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments: always marking the music and the reproaches against Jesus which meant to EXPOSE HIS PUDENDA.



DSS: "In the Hymns of Thanksgiving in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
we are confronted with a number of references to music which are,
as in some Pauline passages, mere rhetorical device;

They roared abuse of me
To the Play of the lyre
And in mocking-songs
uttered their sneers (ch. V)

And Jeremiah showed:

.\I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation. Jer 15:17

Zaam (h2195) zah'-am; from 2194; strictly froth at the mouth, i. e. (fig.) fury (espec. of God's displeasure with sin): - angry, indignation, rage.

Alaz (h5937) aw-laz'; a prim. root; to jump for joy, i. e. exult: - be joyful, rejoice, triumph.

I assure you that NOTHING causes you to be MARKED than imposing music when it is radically repudiated from genesis to Revelation" and in the literature. John says that the Mother of Harlots has taken over (look to see who is rope puller) who uses "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers, musicians and techne (theater builders and stage managers) whom John calls SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world. How do you intend to TRUMP 100% of the Bible and church history and AFFIRM a few "fallen angels" who magically showed up in all Bible based churches working lying wonders.

If the Church of Christ as the ELECT (invited and added to the ekklesia as school of the Bible ONLY) would ALMOST fall under the huge effort, I am encouraged that I think you have about 7 out of over the intended `13,000 congregations which REFUSED to be marked.

The Books of Adam and Eve tell the same story as The Book of Enoch which is quoted at least 128 times in the New Testament specificially MARKING a musical sect as the ones for whom God will come in judgement: the MARK and CAUSE of the fall was into Satan's Music and perversion. Religious music has always been a real or virtual attack.

http://www.piney.com/MuGenun2.html

Here is the GRADUAL process even as Ronnie has confessed to a slow boil by using instruments in "other venues" and conditioning the CHILDREN to go all the way: 20 years will get the job done. Of the Children of Seth:

They heard
They wondered
They came
They stood
They looked
The were gradually won over
Genun was given power to accelerate the seduction process
The Sethites continued a divided allegiance
They fell into temptation
They began to hallucinate
They lusted
They fell from grace
They tried to repent but could not
They were sentenced to captivity
They served as a warning or pattern.

If you ENABLE the MARKING you are a MARKER. Sorry, but there is not a shred of information which refutes that so people have taken ZERO and perverted it into the APPROVED TEXT. Doesn't that make you shudder. The persona of the Sunday sermon "dazzled" me.

I have posted a quick review of Revelation 5 which is used by Ronnie Norman and a few others to justify an intention to introduce musical machines knowing that it will sow discord and offend many of these "little ones" who thought that they were joint owners.

http://www.piney.com/Revelation.5.html

Just a quick study by anyone interested in the MESSAGE of Revelation 5 would easily understand that it is repudiating literal musical instruments.

The problem: no human has the ability to unloose the SEALS put on all of God's word to keep the unworthy from understanding. That being the case they easily MARK themselves as the enemies of the Word to anyone who cares even a little bit.

Only the Holy Spirit whose name is "Jesus Christ the Righteous" can unseal what He gave through the Apostles to mark as false teachers those elders who do not "teach that which has been taught."

The word HOLDING or HAVING harps never means PLAYING a literal harp: that would be rank legalism and virtual insanity if you want to unlock the mysteries.

The word means that they POSSESS A holy spirit or a clear conscience and can understand the Words which are spoken. Those who cannot, for instance, read the word SPEAK and it comes out as MAKE MUSIC.

That holy personal spirit vibrates in sympathy with the Spirit of Christ which He said was in His words.

The OTHER meaning of HOLDING speaks of making a clanging noise with literal instruments. The purpose is to SET AN AMBUSH to steal the spirits

[520] But when they were come to the place where it seemed good unto them to set their ambush, in a river-bed where was a watering-place for all herds alike, there they sate them down, clothed about with flaming bronze. Thereafter were two scouts set by them apart from the host, waiting till they should have sight of the sheep and sleek cattle.

[525] And these came presently, and two herdsmen followed with them playing upon pipes; and of the guile wist they not at all.

Instruments under the Levitical Warrior musicians included SETTING AMBUSH:

Ray,

You brought up 3 issues in response to my earlier post regarding “the survey and the FCCC website:

• The accusation that it is NOT “Christ-like,” e.g., to question the congregation’s eldership’s goals and objectives for the church—one of which is already obvious: restructuring the body of Christ in the locality. An example of this is the “experimentation”—let’s see, not necessarily what God authorizes, but what some members would like to experience with the use of inanimate and lifeless musical machines in the assembly. Why that process is considered restructuring? Because it has not been there in the congregation and in the brotherhood all along; the New Testament teaches to “let the word of Christ dwell in us richly, teaching and admonishing one another” in singing. Apparently, the musical machines are incapable of “teaching and adnominishing.”
  
  Currently, the leadership is having its members experience the “Boiling Frog Syndrome.” The illustration of the point “that moving too recklessly and aggressively may leave one with an empty pot, but traversing a steadier course of more gradual change is much more likely to bring about the desired result.” To further simplify:
  
  
  ”The frog’s body temperature follows its surroundings. If you put the frog directly in boiling water, it will sense the heat immediately and jump out. But when you heat the water slowly, the frog keeps adjusting to the rising temperature. When the heat is too much for the frog to take, it is too late. The frog collapses and dies.”
  
  
  Ray, you can avoid the pervasive issue all you want, but you should know that the brotherhood is keenly noticing the directives coming from Rick Atchley, Max Lucado, Ronnie Norman, et al.
  
  
• You claim that I “erroneously stated” the following:
  
  
  Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.
  
  
  So, mentioning what the “Baptists believe and teach” is repulsive to you? Sorry, but you probably should have learned by now that when a Baptist or the FCCC website says that “baptism is clearly commanded as part of the process of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior,” non-members would automatically perceive that one is SAVED (sins are forgiven) when he “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Savior.”
  
  Ray, the site’s text that I quoted in particular needs to be revised and to reflect what the New Testament teaches about baptism. The particular text also needs to reflect whatever and wherever else the website teaches about baptism that agrees with the New Testament. Remember when I said, “ If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.” Simply, that baptism is designed FOR or UNTO [for, so that, in order that, to, TOWARD] the forgiveness of sins in the Savior’s blood. It is not good enough to state that baptism is by immersion and is commanded (which the Baptist and other faiths teach also) without appending the truth that it is for the purpose of having sins remitted in His blood (and the Baptist and other faiths do not teach such purpose).
  
  Ray, in case you’re still confused as to which particular text regarding baptism I’ve been referring to, please follow this link: (a) NEW TO FCCC, then (b) MEMBERSHIP. The middle paragraph states [with emphases by d.c.]:
  
  
  We ask of our members only what scripture asks of church members: faith in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior, love for one another, a willingness to follow Christ’s teachings, and Christian baptism (Matthew 28:18-20). At First Colony, we practice baptism by immersion and if you have never been immersed in baptism as a believer before, you will get the opportunity to do so.
  
  
  This message is addressed to those who are “new to FCCC.” And just what is “Christian baptism” when the Scripture teaches that one is baptized in order to become a Christian? Is “love for one another” a requisite to “Christian baptism”? Is baptism subsequent to one’s being already a Christian? Plus, in that text, the purpose of baptism is not specified to someone new [including someone from another faith] to FCCC—that is UNTO the forgiveness of sins.
  
  
• With regard to the eldership, you were comparing apples and oranges. You missed my point completely. My point was not about the church’s “goal to have approximately 1 elder per 100 members.” It does not matter how many elders are/have been appointed. My point was simply about the “trend”—that almost 70% of the total number of elders has been chosen in the last 3 years, especially since Ronnie Norman was the first of the 70% to use the “office of a bishop.” Your own “centurion” concept does not compute in this regard.
  
  

Alright, you haven’t made comments about the survey. You haven’t justified the purpose or reason for the survey and why the leadership is even making an attempt to experiment with something that they should—of all folks—KNOW and be fully AWARE is POTENTIALLY RISKY, CONTROVERSIAL and DIVISIVE.

Donnie, you continue to either ignore what is on FCCC's website on baptism (even when I pointed out the clear Biblical teachings on baptism from the website), or willfully misrepresent what FCCC teaches. Josh in his post was quite correct - those who control this website are not interested in the truth but only in their opinions. If you truly wanted the truth, you would pesonally contact any of the ministers or elders by phone or face-to-face visit and ask questions to your heart's content. But you have made it plainly clear that that the truth is not what you are interested in

My thoughts on the survey. A little surpised - that roughtly an equal number are either all for or all against using instruments. What is not surprising is that overwhelmingly over 80% believe in what the scriptures teach - instruments are NOT a salvation issue.

In all of your posturing, you managed to get one thing correct - this is potentially risky and controversial issue (not risky nor controversial from a Biblical foundation, but from a human interpretation and emotional foundation). Which is why the elders have progressed so slowly, cautiously, wisely, and biblically on the matter.

From this point on, I will check back from time to time and see how quickly you and Ken will tire of FCCC and direct your attacks to another innocent congregation. I will not post again until you have proven your honesty and good faith through direct, voice (persnal visit or phone call) contact with the ministers and elders at First Colony, and made an honest Christian attempt to get to know them. When you prove you are acting in Christian honesty and good faith through such a personal contact with the leaders at First Colony, then the discussion might have a basis to continue. Until then, Ken's 100% track record of producing bad fruit will be plain for all to see, along with your unwavering support of his venom.

God bless you and be merciful to you and give you peace.

Lynn Anderson claims to tell people how to NAVIGATE the winds of change but in fact he has been the major blower of a hot wind from the East. He claims that he got his "Change Agent" material from a commercial change agent specialists. If an employer PAYS you to manufacture a product then he has the right to try to make you work more effectively. However, the workers pay the preacher to be BIBLE TEACHER ONLY and he gets no right to MANIPULATE you into being more productive knowing that his WAGE is often a "percentage of the take" or depends on how many contributers to the UNLAWFUL collection plate to fund an UNLAWFUL staff infection.

It comes as no surprise that Lynn Anderson and Ronnie Norman have been working together to NAVIGATE a church into being a pagan worship center. The verbal boast is that they have used gradualism knowing that something vile and violent can be both sold and FORCED. The pity is that all of those intending to RESTRUCTURE all churches of Christ have grown WITHOUT instruments. Isn't it to be wondered why they feel the need for MUSIC to make them grow?

Argue all you will, the Bible is twisted from Genesis to Revelation along with all of church history to turn the universal "music is violence to shut the mouth of the sacrificial victim" into God's direct command to DO IT TO YOU. Here are some notes from Lynn Anderson and the witchcraft parallels:

www.piney.com/WinAnderson.html

www.piney.com/WinAnderson2.html






This other fact of history proves that music is the MARK of an institute which is in a FAILURE MODE but because of the CLOSED system the contributors do not know the facts. I would ask real loud! Getting in over your head is normally made WORSE when you chase off the older members.

[... page size adjusted ]

For your information the Church of Christ has existed under that name in every period of Church history. It was the Church of Christ much later called catholic who "added music because it was common to all pagan cults." However, none was so vile as to use the organ to accompany singing which was quickly taken over by clergy precenters or a "worship team" which is called "the oldesty heresy largely pervading the church." The fact that from Genesis to Revelation and by all historic scholars music is considered Satanic because it silences the voice and direct commands of Jesus, proves that those now adding instruments are THE EXCEPTION to the rule. Adding music proves that people do not know that Jesus continued the "church in the wilderness" as synagogue or school of the Bible: it excluded both vocal and instrumental "rejoicing."

ALL assemblies of the common people was ONLY for instruction and you don't MAKE MUSIC and BREAK DOWN WALLS when as the Spirit OF Christ the synagogue was to QUARANTINE the assembly FROM the pagan, musical rituals from Babylon.

Miqra (h4744) mik-raw'; from 7121; something called out, i. e. a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the place); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. Ne.8:8

And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. Is.4:5



Here is what is outlawed because all such sounds create PANIC:

Ruwa (h7321) roo-ah'; a prim. root; to mar (espec. by breaking); fig. to split the ears (with sound), i. e. shout for alarm or joy: - blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, make a joyful noise, smart, shout (for joy), sound an alarm, triumph.

The synangogue which existed as the Church of Christ even in the wilderness since it was established by the Spirit of Christ never had "a praise service." Just direct command and common sense when the ONLY rationale is to teach.

Now, Ronnie Norman has spent two decades collecting a church under the name of the Church of Christ. By claiming to be consistent with that "restoration" and consistent with direct commands by Paul and hsitoric practices they defined CHURCH as "a school of Christ" and WORSHIP as "reading and musing the Word of God."

In Romans that direct command is to speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. Where they were afflicted with singing (a sorcery word) Paul commanded that they use one mind and one mouth and use "that which is written" to teach, glorify God who wrote it, comfort with scripture and KEEP THE UNITY. Where they were afflicted with "prophesiers" which defines singing and playing instruments to bring on "excitement" Peter commanded that they use THE PROPHETS until "the day star arises in their heart."

Denominations including the Christian church BUILT the wall by adding instruments (legal machines) and those who REFUSED to ADD that which they had never used for 1850 years did not change. That was based on the universal documentary evidence that MUSIC is actually the MARK of someone trying to silence the Word of God. Isaiah 5 isa good example of people who turned their religious meetings FROM the Word to "wine, women and music" they INVITED God to BREAK DOWN THE WALLS and the massses who swarmed in are called the BEAST. They will repay--have repayed--your wanting to tear down what God built by, as in Isaiah 5, eating up all of your GRAPES.

Someone has convinced you to do EXACTLY what the Spirit of Christ commanded you NOT to do. The SABBATH meant REST. Jesus removed the laded burden (music) to give us rest and the word is PAUO. Isaiah 55 prophesied Messiah and the FREE waer of the Word. In Isaiah 58 the Spirit OF Christ defines the nature of the Christian REST. The INSTRUMENTS are always a warning or MARK:

Is. 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Note the description of a hypocrite: Jesus pointed to Ezekiel 33 to include slick speakers, singers and instrument players.

Is. 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Is. 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
Is. 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Is. 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Is. 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Is. 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Is. 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Is. 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Is. 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Is. 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Is. 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

Is. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure [music in Rom 15] on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him,
not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Is. 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

THERE ARE TWO THREADS one leading to destruction under the Kings and Clergy.
The other SPIRITUAL thread is ONLY defined by the prophets by the Spirit OF Christ.

I cannot tell you why Ronnie Norman has chosen the THREAD that led israel into destruction when the ENEMY breaks down the walls (whatever you think). I can tell you that the examples he used and those used by his associates turn ALL of the "instrument passages" into very bad lies. What should be troubling is that ALL of those proof texts to used PSALLO for the first time in 1878 as AUTHORITY for instruments ALL point to older males plucking their harps to seduce younger males.

It sounds like you have had no trouble attracting the INSTRUMENTALISTS without instruments? Ronnie boasts about NOT teaching the position of the movement he CLAIMS to attract faithful members of the Church of Chrsit forever. He also boasts about USING instruments in other venues. Someone suggested that they did that stealth-like in the Bible classes?

Whatever we think about people, to a TRUE DISCIPLE OF CHRIST that will never let it trump the Word of Christ: and Jesus called the religious and musical performers the HYPOCRITES. The MEANING of a hypocrite is a slick speaker and music maker.

We have told you the absolute truth and WE become the ScapeGoat. Personal bonding should never come between one and Christ and His Words: He cast out the musical minstrels like dung.

FC201: The Maturity Class
Prerequisite: FC101
FC201 is Step 2 in First Colony's Spiritual Life track. During our 5 weeks together, we will focus on the four basic habits every Christian needs to grow to spiritual maturity: time in God's word, prayer, tithing and fellowship. Class takes place at the building on Sunday mornings at 9:45 a.m.

Doesn't this sound like indoctrination? I can tell you flat out that any person who claims to be a Christian and teaches TITHING is lying and trying to cheat those they are supposed to MINISTER TO.

The TITHE was like Income Tax. A tithe is 1/10 of the INCREASE or PROFIT which was RENT paid only by those who had received (from the tribe) a FREE farm, flock or orchard: this would probably include a house. IF you were LOANED one of those farms then YOU paid a tithe on your INCREASE. Furthermore, you paid it only YEARLY. Amos condemnes Israel for their often tithings (stealing from the poor to serve the rich)

Furthermore, you paid to the TRIBE of Levi 1/10 of your INCREASE only 3 out of a 7 year cycle.

This was FOOD ONLY to provide the FOOD ONLY to the tribe of Levi who took care of many civil services including warfare.

The Tribe gave the priests only 1/10 of this FOOD ONLY to be consumed when on a rotating basis as the TEMPLE ONLY because they could not leave the premises.

3 other tithes were shared with the poor but not paid to the tribe of Levi. There was NO tithe on the 7th year because there was no PROFIT that year.

That means that to supply FOOD ONLY to the priests and animals for sacrifice you paid 1/10 of the 3/7ths of the INCREASE of the food only to the work of SACRIFICING for the NATIONAL government.

If you were a shoe maker then you bought the leather and YOU suppled the labor and you kept ALL of the profit and never tithed from WAGES.

No Jew paid the tithe OUTSIDE of Canaan and modern Jews involved in FOOD PRODUCTION may or not give or burn 1% of their food only because there is NO LEVITICAL PRIESTHOODS living AT the temple where they need food when ON DUTY ONLY.

There is NO LAW of giving for Christians because "Jesus paid it all." There is NO Law of Giving for the Church of Christ. When you LAY BY HIM you LAY BY HIM or by yourself so that YOU have to give ALMS ONLY to those who ask. There is no LAW because Paul said that it was NOT a command.

Therefore, YOU have been taken captive and are Slaves of the WatchTower.

http://www.piney.com/LayByInStore.html

No church in history every passed the plate:

NIV: On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 1 Corinthians 16:2NIV

NAS: On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come. 1 Corinthians 16:2NAS

NKJV: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. 1 Corinthians16:2

NEV: Every Sunday each of you is to put aside and keep by him a sum in proportion to his gains, so that there may be no collecting when I come. (New English Bible New Testament).

Neander: But Paul, if we examine his language closely, says no more than this: that every one should lay by in his own house on the first day of the week, whatever he was able to save.

This certainly might mean, that every one should bring with him the sum he had saved to the meeting of the church, that thus the individual contributions might be collected together, and be ready for Paul as soon as he came.

But this would be making a gratuitous supposition, not at all required by the connexion of the passage.

We may fairly understand the whole passage to mean, that every one on the first day of the week should lay aside what he could spare, so that when Paul came, every one might be prepared with the total of the sum laid by, and then by pulling the sums together, the collection of the whole church would be at once made." Dr. Augustus Neander, in his "History of the Training and Planting of the Christian Church,"

Jesus commanded ALMS from out hand to the hand of the poor: Alms are not obligations:

Didache 1:5 Give to every one that asketh of thee, and ask not again;
for the Father wishes that from his own gifts there should be given to all.
Blessed is he who giveth according to the commandment, for he is free from guilt;
but woe unto him that receiveth.
For if a man receive being in need, he shall be free from guilt;

but he who receiveth when not in need, shall pay a penalty as to why he received and for what purpose; and when he is in tribulation he shall be examined concerning the things that he has done, and shall not depart thence until he has paid the last farthing.

Didache 1:6 For of a truth it has been said on these matters, let thy almsgiving abide in thy hands until thou knowest to whom thou hast given.

Part of the WELLFARE MENTALITY is that if you out of a free heart give and give and give and support the elders without grumbling and growling the time WILL come when they understand your liberality as WEAKNESS and jump on you like wolves and fleece you, eat your flesh and craunch your bones." Your "joint tenure" then becomes a FULL BLOWN CULT and you may have been so flattered that you are unable to resist.

The fact still remains: when Paul warned about the elders becoming WOLVES he was pointing directly to some unseen influence which is not pretty but shameful.

http://www.piney.com/Acts.20.Wolves.html

The Letter from the First Colony Church of Christ Elder Chairman recommended hearing the teachings of Rich Atchley and Ronnie Norman. What exactly is being recommended to know about the teaching of these two men? There is a very revealing situation in which Mr. Atchley shows to all his inner being. An excerpt from a sermon presented by Rick Atchley is in an article by Dr. Evan’s which is attached below. Dr. Evans makes Godly points through out this article concerning the lesson presented by Rick Atchley.
Rick Atchley has divided the Richland Hills congregation into IM and non IM services, he has separated his liberal views from the conservative view (basically chased those members off) and has tried to drive a wedge between black and white members of the churches of Christ. Rick Atchley may speak of unity in a passionate sermon, yet there is a wake of chaos in everything he has done. And the elders hold this man as the pattern for the future of the First Colony church of Christ?


UNDOING RACISM”: A DOCTRINAL CHANGE-AGENT PLOY!
By Jack Evans, Sr.
To understand and appreciate this treatise on the above subject, one must be familiar with the Internet and written dialogue between this writer and Rich Atchley, minister of the North Richland Hills Church of Christ, which is a suburb of Fort Worth, Texas. The dialogue was precipitated when, on January 28, 2004, Rick Atchley preached a sermon at his congregation titled “Reconciliation to Reckon With,” in which he stated that it was his dream to pursue racial reconciliation with “the African-American community in Tarrant County,” the county in which his congregation is located. This “dream” would be a noble idea, were it not wrapped in a shroud of subliminal condescension and blatant racism itself, as well as that of using the idea as a ploy to denigrate the New Testament church as revealed in the Bible and recruit as many young African-American “insurgents” to assist him through his own concoction of a “Da Vinci Code.” And sadly enough, there are a few, very few, African-American young men who, unwittingly, maybe, have made themselves available to be used by this man whose ultimate purpose is to change the doctrine of the body of Christ. And to further scrutinize the full scope of this dichotomy between Rick Atchley and this writer, go to www.jackevansonline.com. ; You will note in reading that dialogue that this writer, after giving a critical review or exposé, dated March 19, 2004, of Rick’s sermon of January 28 of that year, issued the invitation to him to have a public dialogue regarding the doctrinal tenets on which we differ, but he never accepted that invitation.
While stating in his sermon that his “dream” was that of “reconciliation” of the white and African-American people, which is sociology, ninety-five percent of his “dream” sermon was on how African-American churches of Christ differ from some white American churches of Christ in religious belief, which is theology. This writer wonders if Rick knows the difference. It is not that we differ in sociology, the equality of all human beings, based on a correct understanding of the U.S. Constitution; it is in the realm of theology, the immutable, absolute authority of Jesus Christ, where our differences come. One must embrace the correct theology first, and the sociology will automatically be resolved (Gal. 3:26-29). Therefore, Rick and his pied-piper followers, white and black, should concentrate in their forthcoming “retreat” on theology, which includes acceptance of the doctrine of Christ as revealed in the New Testament (Rom. 6:17-18; 2 Tim. 1:13; Jude 3). But it appears that they have a semantical problem with the word RECONCILE. This word means “to reunite” or “to bring together again.” Thus African-American and Anglo-Americans cannot be reconciled through man-made means, because they have never been conciliated on a racial basis. They have never been united on the basis of racial equality in this nation, and never will be, on the basis of man-made means. The only hope of true reconciliation is that all men be first reconciled TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST (2 Cor. 5:16-20; Eph. 2:16; Col. 3:15). And all of this is done in the one New Testament church, which is that “church-of-Christ-only-going-to-heaven-teaching” (1 Cor. 15:24-28; 2 Cor. 5:1-7; 1 Thess. 4:16-17), so strongly condemned by Rick Atchley in his “Reconciliation to Reckon With” sermon. To refresh your and Rick’s memory, I offer the following excerpts, verbatim, from Rick’s sermon:
Here’s my dream. The truth of the matter is, historically in churches of Christ our African-American congregations have struggled with a lot of the legalism and sectarianism that some of us knew growing up. THEY STILL DO. AFRICAN-AMERICAN CHURCHES STILL OFTEN PREACH ‘THE-CHURCH-OF-CHRIST-IS-THE-ONLY-ONE-GOING-TO-HEAVEN’ kind of sermons. IT GRIEVES ME TO SAY THAT, BUT IT IS TRUE. Here’s what grieves me more: the reason that’s true is because for decades the Christian schools of churches of Christ denied African-American young men to come study. THE PREACHERS IN THOSE CHURCHES DIDN’T GET GOOD THEOLOGICAL TRAINING. It was in my own lifetime that that changed. I remember when I first started preaching, a lot of the young black men that graduated from ACU with Bible degrees would come see me and say, ‘We don’t know what to do. We’ve learned to preach GRACE; the black churches won’t hire us, and the white churches won’t even talk to us. WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO?’ In Atlanta I got canceled by a black church. They said they wanted me to come because they had heard about people we were winning to Christ. And then the preacher called me up and said, ‘I hear you have a praise team. I hear you believe that people besides the church of Christ can go to heaven.’ And he canceled me, not because he wasn’t willing to listen, but because he was afraid of what his preaching peers would say. AND THIS IS THE CULTURE IN AFRICAN-AMERICAN CHURCHES FOR YEARS...BUT; THERE’S A NEW GENERATION OF YOUNG, AFRICAN-AMERICAN PREACHERS THAT WANT TO BREAK FREE FROM THAT. They have started meeting. They formed their own retreat. They are getting together. And they need encouragement; because in black churches of Christ if you stand up and preach some of the things that we have been preaching in this pulpit for thirty years, you can still get into a lot of trouble. They need encouragement. So, I am going to their next retreat to encourage them. And I am going to invite them to come in 2005 here to this church and be encouraged and know that they have a future. And when this church models to our fellowship that we believe that there can be a new day of freedom and grace, that explodes in African-American churches across America, it will make a statement that needs to be made.
You will note in the above diatribe about something that he least understands, Rick, in “a great white father” mode, states that he was going to help the “new generation of Young African-American preachers...break free from that,” not elucidating on what “that” meant. Was he speaking about their culture or their preaching the scripture? He also said that he was going to invite these young African-American preachers (some of whom are as old as he is or older) to come to his church in 2005 for a “retreat,” and to let them know that they have “a future.” What kind of “future” can Rick Atchley assure for these young men in the church of Christ? This would be analogous to Colonel Sanders’ assuring the chickens of a future. This writer considers this “retreat” as a socio-religious retreat from truth. Its primary, subtle purpose is to try to make inroads into the African-American churches of Christ with a false doctrine about “Christians in all denominations,” under the guise of “grace,” not mentioning that “grace and truth” are inseparable (John 1:17). But “they shall not pass!”
This “retreat” is scheduled to convene on August 26-27 at the North Richland Hills Church of Christ, hosted by Rick, one of the most virulent leaders of the change of doctrine (apostasy) in the churches of Christ, armed with the false teachings of Max Lucado, Rubel Shelley, and others of their doctrinal persuasion. And to make their purpose more palatable, this activity is titled “New Wineskins Retreat 2005,” which shows their misunderstanding of the new wineskins principle in the Bible referencing Old Testament and New Testament teachings. This writer, therefore, refers to the modern day “new wineskins” group simply as the “new coonskins,” both white and black. For Jesus was not dealing with human chronology in Matthew 9:17 in reference to “wineskins.” It is also this writer’s belief that some of these young African-American ministers have been caught up in this doctrinal change movement unaware of the real purpose of Rick and the other change agents with whom they are aligning themselves. It is hoped that such young men will soon realize this ploy and quickly disassociate themselves from those apostate change agents who are literally misusing some of them under the fallacious term of “progressive element of the churches of Christ.” If such young African-American men continue in doctrinal digression with the change agents, after ample admonition, they, too, must be “marked” and withdrawn from for teaching false doctrine and heresy (Rom. 16:17-18; Titus 3:10-11; 2 Thess. 3:6). For those young men are, unknowingly, limiting their ministry in the church of Christ, which concerns this writer, personally.
To further advance and disguise their true motives, and make them more acceptable to African-American young men unaware of their real purpose, the change agents are using the theme for this retreat this year, “Undoing Racism,” which any minority person wants to see done. And one would be prompted to ask, what is wrong with that theme? The answer is, nothing; it is a good theme. But Rick said at the beginning of his sermon on Reconciliation, that “...one area I mentioned was with the African-American community in Tarrant County.” To do that, all Rick needs to do, having several thousand white members huddled together in the North Richland Hills congregation, an area with very few African-Americans living there, is to take maybe two thousand of his white members and go into the African-American community in Fort Worth, where the majority of the African-Americans live in Tarrant County, and bring them to Christ. And then some of them, maybe even Rick himself, could just move into that community (as well as into the Hispanic sections) and worship there with them, permanently, in a truly integrated church setting. Why must the minority race always acquiesce to the will and way of the majority race? The prominent question is, what has the ninety-eight percent white congregation of the North Richland Hills Church of Christ done to undo racism in the American community of Tarrant County in the last forty years, besides inviting a few “safe” African-American people over for membership in a “gilded cage.” With the exception of possibly one or two, even the African-American churches in Tarrant County know very little about the North Richland Hills Church of Christ, let alone anything about Rick Atchley, who seemingly has the “great white father complex.”
There is an eerie resemblance of the tactics of the white doctrinal change-agent leaders in churches of Christ and those moral change-agent leaders of the gay lifestyle in America. The similarity is this: the “gay rights” leaders try to connect the Civil Rights movement to the “gay rights and same sex marriages” movement in this country, when the two movements have no relationship whatever. Homosexuality is not a civil right; it is a perverted, moral wrong. Similarly, the doctrinal change agent leaders in churches of Christ try to connect their apostate teachings to racial equality, as has always been right there in the Bible. The apostates of today, unlike the old-line racists in this country of the 1800s and early 1900s, will use the Bible to “undo racism,” but will not use the Bible to “undo” denominationalism. “Consistency, thou art a jewel!” And like the “gay rights” leaders, who use the derogatory epithets like “homophobics” and “gay bashers,” the change agents among churches of Christ use epithets like “legalists, patternists, conservatives, sectarianism and ‘old-line church of Christism’,” just to name a few. But such ungodly tactics will not deter people who still believe the Bible and hold fast to its mandates in morality and doctrine (2 Tim. 1:13; 2:19; Titus 2:11-13).
In conclusion, since a part of the mission statement of the “new wineskins” is to preserve “...an open atmosphere conducive for honest dialogue and strategic planning,” this writer requests to have such a public dialogue with Rick Atchley and any of this group, not on “racism,” which we have “talked to death,” and on which the Bible is very clear in condemning, but on the “principles” of the doctrine of Christ (Heb. 6:1) on which we disagree (Acts 15:1-2, 24). This writer awaits a response from Rick Atchley and/or anyone who supports his doctrinal stance.

The traditionalists among us will never believe that the Richland Hills' and First Colony's of the world came to their current beliefs through good old fashioned Bible study. They believe that the only way churches like that could come to those beliefs is through "wolves in sheep's clothing." I don't know about you, but in the churches of Christ that I grew up in, we were taught that every Christian had the responsibility to read and study the Bible for themselves. We don't let the Pope tell us what it says. We don't let some preacher tell us what it says. I don't know how many times Acts 17:11 was quoted from the pulpit, telling us that "these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" (notice that I used the King James Version for this scripture. I believe in becoming all things to all men, that I might by all means save some!). I was taught to read and study the Bible for myself. When I did, as I continue to do to this day, I began to see that the churches of Christ I grew up in didn't tell me the whole story. When I read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I began to see that the actions and attitudes of my fellowship, which claimed to have the truth, lined up more with the Pharisees and teachers of the law than with Jesus Christ. The Pharisees' doctrine allowed them to focus on doctrinal correctness while treating others with contempt and downright ugliness. It still does, and it is repulsive. Jesus said in Matthew 23:25-26, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and of excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." If we look good on the outside but are rotting on the inside, what good is it? If we claim to have the truth yet treat brethren like dirt, what's the point? While searching for verses for a one on one Bible study to lead someone to Christ, I came across John 17:3, where Jesus prays, "Now this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." This brought to mind another verse I had heard preached many times, where Jesus said in Matthew 7:23, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Jesus is saying that I can do all kinds of religious things, but if I don't know Him, it's all a waste of time. When we profess to possess the truth, and yet treat one another with contempt, we can't say with a straight face that we know Him. In fact, it is those traditionalists among us who are wolves in sheep's clothing. They are the ones working alongside the evil one to steal, kill, and destroy our people with legalism and judgment. It was Jesus who came that we "might have life, and have it more abundantly" (John 10:10). Richland Hills and First Colony are reaching so many people because they are offering life, plain and simple. Our traditional, legalistic churches continue to shrink, not because people can't handle the truth, but because they can't handle the lies of those who claim to have the truth, but use it as an excuse to steal, kill, and destroy the life that Jesus came to bring. The legalists among us are literally choking the life out of our people. Many who grew up in churches of Christ are like me. We did as we were taught. We are reading and studying the Bible for ourselves. As a result, we will no longer side with the Pharisees and teachers of the law. We're going to side with Jesus, wherever that leads us.

I'm not disrespecting the flow of argument, it's just the same argument is made time after time, instance after instance on thread after thread with passion from other sides. So please don't think I'm changing the subject to avoid jumping in. I can get both sides looking through years of commentary here.

I used to live in Houston and was a member at Westbury when some members living in Sugarland started First Colony. I have lost track of it's impact, size and growth over the past 20 years, especially as compared to where the church of Christ stands at other Houston congregations. Houston, being a city of 7 million or so, as well as Dallas, should and probably are stand out cities of opportunity within the brotherhood.

My question is what is the current membership of First Colony? Approximately how many baptisms a year are you having? Is it still growing and was the decision in part an effort to keep some members who were vocal?

And finally, even tho it's probably none of my business, how has the overall membership reacted and handled this? Is the only arguing on this website, or is the leadership being called to put out fires:has the 3rd service been accepted overall or is it an isolated group.

With the fact that several bodies have gone this direction we might assume more are considering it and I'm taken that each time this comes up, the transition seem less heated and more accepted. I'm not trying to set this up for continual judging of this body but only as a curiosity of where the body is going.
Thank you, if anybody at First Colony is still reading these posts and wants to respond.

The music service will begin the first of Feb. 2008. We are dropping the third service and going to two services. There seems to be several families leaving the 25th of January, unless there is a change. Alot of people have quit giving their contribution and are looking for good christian work to make a yearly contribution. I think there is alot of just bitter people sitting in the pews just unhappy with all that is going on but do nothing, like leaving or otherwise. Several Elders have voiced their opposition to the changes, but there is not a movement to do anything. Elders called each family to see if they were having a problem, but the elders that called did not know the families they were talking to, so there was not much of a response. Many people are at first colony because of the nice building. Some of the elders are very cold and make great businessmen, but not the best elders. And the minister looks like he has aged tremendously. In a nut shell that is our church.

I think you mean 2009. The switch to two service has nothing to do with the inclusion of instruments for the latter service. The new facility will be sufficiently large enough to onlyu requires two services, and the elders made the decision to move to only two sooner rather than wait until reuired to later. There may be some leaving - I know of one who is considering it. However, except for that one family, all those I know who do not prefer the Instrumental Service are switching to the first, acapella service (myself included). Your "information" about the contributions is not substantiated by the records - we are running way ahead of the budget. So if some contribution are dropping off, they are more than being made up by others.

I am not sure where anonymous got their information on the elders from. I know every single elder personally, some very well. The decision on IM was unanimous. All of the elders are very Godly men, and many were elders elsewhere before they came to First Colony (BTW - has our moderator taken the time to personally contact even one elder at Frist Colony?). None of the elders are "cold business men" so I suspect "anonymous" just doesn't get along with too many. And the elders do listen to the voices of the congregation - an announcement was made several months ago regarding one activity at First Colony, and because of congregational feedback was recently decided against persuing (and no - if you are not a member, it is none of your business what the annoncement was about). "Anonymous" many think they are descibing First Colony in a "nut shell" but I propose that their nut shell is cracked and not representative at all of FCCC.

From our local newspaper.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/6191730.html

Even those who do not follow Christ may read the story of how a Church of Christ acts as the Body of Christ, and thus give glory to God.

That's wonderful: it does help if you can do ethnic cleansing and get a new batch of people to give the money?
However, I personally gave more than that to my local congregation before I caught on to the fact that all of the expansion was to NORMANIZE the church and divert the money.

My guess is that the mission church will be PAGANIZED by adding instruments? Or at least the heresy of a Praise Team?

You are still enabling a man and HIS elders who have lied about every "music" passage in the Bible and done EXACTLY what is defined as the EVIL THREAD of the King, kingdom, priests and Levitical (Dionysus) musicians.

At the same time Bible 101a would prove to the honest that the SPIRITUAL THREAD by the Spirit of Christ through the PROPHETS quite clearly and most of the Bible in PARABLES to fool the fools (Matt 13).

The fact in the Bible, the Book of Enoch and most recorded history is that MUSIC is the MARK which tells God to "shut your face." In Revelation 17 this is the MARK of the returning Babylon mother of harlots, using the lusted after fruits, as speakers, singers and instrument players John called SORCERERS. That probably means that once you have appropriated the guilt by being an ENABLER you will never be able to read BLACK text on BROWN paper again.

I have just done another RETAKE of King Solomon's Temple which the Rormanites use for authority -- for the worship of the starry hosts (Stars have always meant entertainers)

This will prove that by falling from grace and back under the TEMPLE THREAD you have manifested the Babylon Harlot and boasted about it to the watching world.

http://www.piney.com/KingSolomonsTemple.html

As an outake I have done Revelation 22 where the Alpha and Omega does another of MANY comparisons between the PAGAN THREAD and the EKKLESIA which is a school of the Words of God in Christ--ONLY.

http://www.piney.com/Revelation.22.html

This is a rough cut but you can click on the PRE PREACHER evidence so that even if, as in Enoch, you have fallen and will never get back up, you will have been warned.

The LOCUSTS in the Book of Revelation are the MUSES of Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon the SERVCE of the Levites as did John in Revelation warned you about. As the SORCERERS the Locusts (musicians) have the driven purpose to DRIVE OUT the faithful members with the name of Christ on their forehead from those MARKED or STUNG by the muses with their scorpion tails. Therefore, if the Bible has any meaning then the music was the WAY OF ESCAPE for the faithful and the unfaithful will sing, clap and rejoice in the musical captivity--music DOES sting the soul as a all of history knew. Therefore, while youare waiting for "bus" you might want to read The Lies which you have swallowed like a juicy worm: as kids we used Dough Ball$ to catch the $UCKER$.

http://www.piney.com/First.Colony.Norman.html

Sad, Sad that bitter Wail (praise song), too late but lost. In the words of John Calvin and the musical disturbers, a heresy has no "statute of limitations" so some things cannot be erased by time or money.

Which action declares the the Christian, spirit filled life? Ken's attacks on a gift to God, or the humble and selfless donation and service of the Ugandan church and of First Colony Church of Christ?

I agree the readers should appreciate the wonderful gift of $21.96. What a wonderful expression of Christianity! The readers should also know that the first colony church is spending 9 million on facilities for comfort, which includes a bell tower(?). The amount spent on these facilities could feed the entire nation of Uganda for quite a while. Yet the group Ray states time and time again that, they are on the right track and are so much more loving than most, is building a monument for what, the hungry, God or the uncomfortble? Ray your comments are so sactimonious, are your comments an example of the people at first colony?

Anonymous, since you have the same IP address as the poster who got so much wrong about the spirit of the members, the type of people the elders are, Ronnie's appearance, and the budget - you tell us. We know it will be wrong.

History makes it clear that there has been a long frog boiling effort to shift out the church of Christ people and shift in those who will bow when the leader pipes. Nevertheless, it seems you must have had a large number leave when the die was cast.

Therefore, would it be too much to ask what has happened to the numbers since the great falling away? Most churches have no problems posting their attendance and contribution. That would be nice of someone.

I have done some additions to my post on Ronnie Norman: the first review was just to discuss the Shepherding Movement led by Lynn Anderson which is the Old Crossroads or IOCC system of mind and body control.

I listened to Ronnie's 'sermon' and took notes and have responded to just a few as todays response to the NACC proof text.

http://www.piney.com/First.Colony.Norman.html

I found some good stuff that fits Revelation 17 and the mother harlot of Babylon who uses the lusted after fruits as speakers, singers and instrument players called sorcerers (Rev 18) which John says have their place in the lake of fire along with the liars. I thought it interesting that since the curse of the Law was Dionysus worship that

"dionysus's worship is thus established by the simple means of killing the opposition. It has been suggested that every tragic hero who suffers and dies on stage at the Dionysia, the great dramatic festival at Athens (of the South?), is in fact dionysus himself, being killed."

In the Eleusian mysteries, the wine was not noted for its alcohol but for drugs perhaps from fermented barley or from mushrooms used to bring on the exhilaration. Of the priest, it is said that:

"As he performed the service, he intoned ancient chants in a falsetto voice, for his role in the Mystery was asexual, a male who had sacrificed his gender to the Great Goddess.

The Levites (Levius or Dionysus ministers) also sang in a falsetto style (a cappella), and their instruments, dress and performance style was effeminate.

I have added some material to the Nadab and Abihu episode which ignorant people love to make fun of but as a result of their doing about 5 things not commanded they were burned up and God IMPOSED the scapegoat or the worship of Azazel or the devil who TAUGHT mankind how to make music and all of their friends-male and female.

http://www.piney.com/Nadab-Abihu.html

Why doubt it: because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God turned them over to worship the starry host (Acts 7) and the cursed Temple was dedicated to the worship of the stars according to Amos and the rest of the PROPHETS: the Scribes Ronnie is trusting in do NOT speak for the spiritual side by the Spirit of Christ. So, you have like the Israelites fallen from Grace and the MARK is to find a SCAPEGOAT or A Cappellas or Sorcerers in Revelation 18:23. I am not sure why they are so happy clappy being USED as a sacrifice to Azazel to try to cover for the rest of the congregation.

Sure would like some numbers? Thanks. In the PURPOSE DRIVEN CULT you are allowed to lose up to one half of the owners because MUSIC will attract the masses.

I am not aware of the actual attendance numbers, but am aware of how all three services are attended. Two of the three are packed. The second (the one being discontinued) meets the same time as the Bible classes and only appears to fill 1/2 the auditorium. Bottom line - our attendance has no noticable decline in the past year, and actually appears to be greater. Contributions? We finished the year way over budget. IOW, if no one had contributed 1 cent in the last two weeks of the year, we still would have finished within budget. Our members/owners were asked to consider increasing their contributions 2009, and they overwhelming met that request in pledges.

That is right - the same "owners" you claim are leaving and losing out have re-upped for the coming year and plan on exceeding what they did in 2008.

Note to anonymous - your numbers are not surprisingly off. If all that was contributed by the members/owners for the building instead went to Uganda for food, the result would be each person in Uganda would have one meal paid for only one day. Period. So which is better - feeding one person one meal, or bringing in the lost in your local community everyday for years?

The request has been made in response to each of the following messages by Ken Sublett:

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Ken Sublett
First Colony INVADING peaceful territory May 7 2008, 10:19 PM 

Here is how they turn the trick: This is so vile I have trouble believing that even Satan could pull it off without some real trouble in river city. But, Paul warned the Thessalonian church. [... ... ...]

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Ken Sublett
Ronnie Norman part of the Band! May 5 2008, 10:11 PM 

Ken, why would you say that, "Ronnie Norman has been a misguiding light from the beginning so there is no doubt that he has been warming the waters to boil the frogs."?

Ronnie's name has appeared grouped with all of those who set out with a well-stated agenda to restructure the Church of Christ. [... ... ...]

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Ken Sublett
Review of First Sermon: 2 Chron 3 May 27 2008, 10:59 PM 

I got around to listening to Ronnie's first sermon where he gives some of his proof texts. The first part is a pretty judgmental putdown of why the Church of Christ DIVIDED and ADDED. It is a lack of Bible and Restoration history to assume that The Church of Christ was ever a PART of the Disciples denomination. [... ... ...]

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FROM: Rick
SUBJECT: Milton Jones
February 1 2009, 6:19 AM 

Can you please give me any information you can share about Milton Jones but please give me facts to back it up. He is now our preacher and we are having problems and I would like to know more about him. Thank you.

Brother Milton Jones is not at First Colony. Identify what congregation you and Brother Jone are at, identify just "who" is having the problems (a tiny number, or a large majority) and then start a new thread. Stick with facts and not sinful innuendo and divisiveness.

Milton Jones is one of Ronnie Norman's legalistic, sectarian patternists to authorize lying, cheating and strealing the church houses of widows JUST to impose ceremonial legalism as the CURSE imposed on Israel BECAUSE of musical idolatry.

Milton Jones has carried his "cell groups" to another church which has begun to smell the smoke after the house is about burned down. Because I went to Texas to PROCURE Milton Jones I have sent an e-mail.

Ken, stick with facts and not your usual sinful innuendo and divisiveness. If someone has a complaint about Brother Milton Jones, start a new thread