Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?......Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Main Index  
Ken Sublett
(no login)

The legalistic PATTERNISM for music isa DEATH SENTENCE with no appeal.

September 6 2009, 6:01 PM 

The "authority" people use for using any form of music in the "school of the Bible" is David and the Levites. What most preachers missed is that it was because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai that God abandoned the NATIONAL system to the tribe of LEVI and the SPIRITUAL PEOPLE attended The Church of Christ in the wilderness QUARANTINED from what was pagan and evil

Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.
Gen. 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly,
......mine honour, be not thou united:
......for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
Gen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel:
......I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

It is a fact that after the last blasphemy which brought on the conditional sentence at Mount Sinai was carried out, was by David. David had sinned so that he could not go to the designated place of the Tabernacle. Rather than kill David, God gave him a Jebusite High Place where he built an ALTERNATIVE tabernacle. He was now 100% one of those kings God gave in His anger. Samuel records God's abandonment of the national system to a NATIONAL (Canaanite, Egyptian, Babylonian etal) Civil-Military-Clergy complex to carry out the captivity and death sentence. This was not irrational because the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai caused God to ABANDON the Civil-Military-Clergy over to worship the starry host. Christ PRESERVED the Spiritual Thread from that with the Church of Christ which was to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word of God and was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing. THAT is the patternism of Christ and that never changed.

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR of your god Remphan,
......figures which ye made to worship them:
......and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

That is where the Babylon mother of harlots resurfaces in the END TIME using "lusted after fruits" or performing the roles of women as speakers, singers and instrument players John called SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world.

Stephen (Acts 7 you missed in sermons, songs and classes) says that:

God gave (by Grace) David a TENT which permitted the "worship of the starry host"
But, David built God a HOUSE
But, God does not LIVE IN nor is worshipped in houses built by human hands: God is worshipped IN the place of the human spirit which ALL forms of "music" intends to shut down so that you watch THE EFFEMINATE performance and therefore worship THEM.

David was the king of the Civil-Military-Clergy complex worshiping the STARS and SERPENTS: Christ in the prophets (for the Spiritual thread) calls the robbers and parasites. Not surprising since God WARNED the elders when they demanded a SENIOR PASTOR to rule them it would be terminal.

"David succeeded in transferring the traditions of the Confederacy to Jerusalem: the Ark, the Tabernacle, the priesthood. But in this change something happened to the character of 'Israel,' to the structure of the community.

No longer was Israel, the people of God, bound together on the basis of covenant allegiance to Yahweh at the central sanctuary;

Israel was now bound together politically, on the basis of a contract between king and people (II Sam. 5:3). As citizens of the state, the people of Israel owed allegiance to a king who could take a census, exact forced labor, and require submission to his power...

As Israel became a state modeled after other oriental monarchies, more and more she lost her distinctive character and faced the danger of being swallowed up in the power struggle and cultural stream of the Near East." (Anderson, p. 188)

That is repeated in the TURF BATTLES by preachers and elders which makes church--like the monarchy--a 100% political institute with no connection to the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness where Christ OUTLAWED vocal or instrumental rejoicing.

"There is incontrovertible archaeological evidence for the antiquity of the musical guilds themselves. The Phoenicians (Canaanites) outshone their contemporaries in music, and the Israelites were early influenced by them.

......Musical guilds of the Hebrews may be traced back in some instances, old Canaanite families whose designations, such as Hemen the Ezrahite (I Chron. 2:6),
......became a part of later Hebrew family names." (Unger, Merril, Archaeology and the Old Testament, Zondervan, P. 216-7)

"The trained musicians which eventually appear around the time of David and Solomon mark a distinctive change in the history of Jewish music. Before this time much of the music was made by women." (Zondervan Pict., Music p. 313).

"In an inscription from Cyprus, in one from Rhodes and in several from around the district of Carthage, [The Source of Molech Worship]

there are references to important personages who bear the title Mqm'lm which we can translate as AROUSERS of the god.'" (de Vaux, Roland, The Bible and the Ancient Near East, Doubleday, p. 247).

"We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain LEVITES, called me'oreim, 'AROUSERS,' sang (every morning?) this verse from "Ps 44:23: "Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever." The Talmud tells us that John Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom." (Roland de Vaux, p. 247).

So, you see, the Levites cursed by their father, were the PRIESTS offering sacrifices to MOLOCH: especially in Tyre and Jerusalem whose temple was built by the same architect. Just AFTER Hezekiah's plague stopping BURNT OFFERING where the INSTRUMENTS were played and which GOD DID NOT COMMAND, the burning of infants was restoredd.

[linked image]

The Levites cannot be used as authority for "musical worship teams": Christ reserved that as a MARK. They were an old guild and that is why Molech worship or burning infants to the beat of all kinds of loud singing and playing instruments was common in Jerusalem. In Isaiah 30 Christ in Spirit uses this Molech worship as a PATTERNISM of the MARKS and SOUNDS of God driving His old Assyrian/Egytian enemies into HELL. The PROOF that God is carrying out the final judgment causing all of the squirming and clapping will be be SINGING and playing wind, string and percussion instruments. Isaiah 30. This is repeated for the end time (now) when the church of the Babylon mother of Harlots (Inanna, Lucifer, Zoe) (Rev 17) uses lusted after fruits (same ones in Amos) as SELF-speakers, singers and instrument players whom John calls SORCERERS. Those with the DOGS (Cynic howlers), liars and are also destined to the Lake of Fire. We are to see the Lying Wonders of deluded people before Jesus returns as a MARK and SOUND to flee Babylon.

If you care enough to quit singing and clapping and become A School of Christ through the Bible, you will discover that the GUILD NAMES, the names of the instruments, the term prophesying, the dress, the dance and the style of singing (falsetto or a cappella or CCM) were all done PLAYING THE PART OF WOMEN.

"Before the establishment of the kingdom under Saul, it was the women who, as in every young civilization, played a major part in the performance of music. Such figures as Miriam, Deborah, Jephtha's daughter, and the women hailing the young hero David have become almost archetypes of female musicians. Characteristic of all these cases is the familiar picture of a female chorus, dancing and singing, accompanied by frenzied drum-beating [hand clapping]. This is the scene known to the entire Near East, and not even the severe rule of Islam could wholly suppress this age-old practice." (Int Dict of the Bible, Music, p. 457).

Including the Levites who "performed the role of women", the Babylonian Tablets, all of the contemporaneous literature, the Classics and church fathers PROVE that when you turn from SPEAK or SAY to SING or PLAY it is both the mark and producer of the effeminate. The Zoe Group had to bring in an expert to assure them that the Platonic Fallacy was not true.

SO, it is a fact that the Ark Moving slaughter and Vileness was the MARK of the first use in the MONARCHY used by almost all people who impose any kind of performance music. The FIRST folly was in trying to involve EVERYONE who could get there. In the second fearful ATTEMPT only those connected with the Civil-Military-Clergy and their camp followers who were involved. It was PERMITTED only because it was the role of the old LEVI tribe already abandoned to worship the starry host. AFTER God has removed His candlestick (seven spirits of Divine knowledge) THEN you are in fact COMMANDED to impose worship teams with or without instruments: you have lost your right to choose.

David as a King to carry out the worship of the Starry Host did not follow the Law of Moses intended to protect the weak from the strong but ENSLAVED the weak and stole their property and gave it to his MINISTERY TEAM including the Levites where in the Greek sacrificial system they were called PARASITES.

Yes, instruments or any musical form is DIRECTLY COMMANDED for any church which has replaced the TEACHER with sermonizers and "made the lambs dumb before the slaughter" which was THE purpose of EXORCISM noise in the killing of innocent animals to eat their flesh and to fleece the dumb. In fact, you probably DO NOT HAVE ANY CHOICE in the matter just as the Israelites were ABANDONED to worship the starry hosts. These stars always carried the meaning of performing STARS.

Since a musical instrument is a "machine for doing hard work mostly in making war and creating the shock and awe of religious rituals" (Outlawed by Jesus as the laded burden) is the ONLY meaning of LEGALISM<.b> in the Greek literature. That was always teaching the LAWS of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) by the muses or musicians in Revelation 18 identified as dirty adulteresses and SORCERS who burn in hell. That is why LEGALISTS always point the gun in the wrong direction.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

ALL literate people grasped: NO INSTRUMENTS in CHURCH.

September 16 2009, 4:42 PM 


I am surprised that so few of the Kingdom of Christ or the Church of Christ were SHAKEN when they heard the final SHAKING (musical sounds). It may be that those who have been Shellyed into believing that the "church is ONLY about worship" and have rushed to buy the New Style Song books or who have USED musical worship teams to claim the role of Mediators, include a much larger part of the kingdom which HAS been shaken and therefore REMOVED. The ELECT are identified as NOT being able to be SHAKEN.

Heb. 12:28 Therefore, receiving a kingdom that cant be shaken,
......let us have grace, through which we serve God acceptably, with reverence and awe,
Heb. 12:29 for our God is a consuming fire.

They are also MARKED by ignorance of the Nadab and Abihu pattern which makes them laugh and laugh.

One of the hate crime used by many of those being "turned over to worship the starry host" is that the Church of Christ inherited its ANTI-instrument "legalistic, sectarian, patternist hypocritic practice" of not BEGINNING to do what it had NEVER done from the Puritans who of course were influenced by John Calvin and the free thinkers opposed to a SECTOR of the Church of England.

Calvin like all historic scholars understood the difference between the TABERNACLE in one location and the SYNAGOGUE in all small gatherings and the Temple under the Monarchy whom God had "turned over to worship the starry host." All of this SECT were of Levi and Jacob had warned people NOT to attend the assemblies of the tribe of Levi.

John L. Girardeau Instrumental Music in Worship

The General Argument from Scripture

The elements of worship in the Mosaic dispensation were of two kinds:

(1.) The generic or essential.... Without here raising the question whether synagogues had an existence prior to the Babylonian exile, one would risk little in taking the ground that, during all the time of the church's development in the past,

God's people had been accustomed to meet on Sabbath days for engagement in these essential parts of divine worship. The patriarchal dispensation being left out of account, in which, however, every sentiment of piety and reverence, the original institution of the seventh day as one of rest, and the acquaintance of the Israelites with the law of the Sabbath before the promulgation of the Sinaitic law, render it highly probable that such a practice was maintained, a few reasons will be intimated in favor of its maintenance during the period of the Jewish economy:

First, The fourth commandment made the sacred observance of every Sabbath day obligatory. It is not reasonable to suppose that the law contemplated the merely individual and private keeping holy of the day.

Secondly, The Israelites, during their sojourn in the wilderness, were accustomed to worship every Sabbath day in mass at the tabernacle. It was accessible from every part of the encampment which was around it on every side. The proof of this is given in Lev. 23:3: "Six days Shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation."

After the musical fall from Grace the STRANGERS including Israelites NOT of the tribe of Levi would be killed if they came close to any holy things. Even though the Levites made no "musical" noise, they too would be executed if they came close to any holy part of the Tabernacle.

While people assume that people did other social things at the "church in the wilderness" the Holy Convocation part of their assembly was very restricted to instruction as was the church as ekklesia. For one thing, they did not play instruments on the Sabbath (until they were abandoned) because that would constitute WORK. The Levites polluted the Sabbath with instrumental noise because they had been abandoned by God

[linked image]

The prescriptive usage of meeting for worship on every Sabbath was thus established during their forty years' pilgrimage in: the desert. In all that time during which they held weekly assemblies, let it also be observed, they knew nothing of instrumental music. It is altogether unreasonable to suppose that this habit, ingrained into them in the early period of their national existence and consecrated by innumerable sacred and splendid associations, would have ceased to be influential after their wanderings had ceased and they had been permanently located in the land of rest.

Such an innovation upon their customs could only have occurred in consequence either of a divine command enforcing the change, or of a serious defection from their religious principles. We know that neither of these causes operated to produce the supposed revolution in their habits of worship. Upon their settlement in Canaan, they were of course dispersed in consequence of their tribal distribution throughout the length and breadth of the country from Dan to Beersheba,

......and, as the tabernacle was necessarily at any particular time confined to one spot, it was not accessible to congregations representing all Israel, except upon the occasions of the prescribed national festivals. What, then, were they doing on all the other Sabbaths of the year in their cities and towns, villages and rural neighborhoods? It cannot be supposed that on those Sabbaths they never met for worship. This consideration is mightily enhanced by the fact that only the males of Israel were enjoined to attend the great annual festivals.

Another Presbyterian, John Calvin understood that the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness was for those in their own communities.

Were the women, the mothers of Israel, the trainers of children and youth, left destitute of all public worship? The supposition cannot be entertained. Provision must have been made for their engagement in the stated public worship of their God.

John L. Girardeau Instrumental Music in Worship

Moses received the mode of constructing the tabernacle and the order of its worship by divine revelation. "See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount." It will be admitted that the instructions thus divinely given descended to the most minute detailsóthe sort of fabrics and skins to be used, and their diverse colors, the pins, the ouches and the taches, the ablutions, the vestments and the actions of the officiating priests and Levites, the ingredients of the holy ointment and the incense, the parts, the arrangements, the instruments of worship, to everything connected with the tabernacle these specific directions referred.
......Of course, if God had intended instrumental music to be employed, it would have been included in these particular directions; the instruments would have been specified for its performance, and regulations enjoined for its use.

What, now, are the facts? No directions are given respecting instruments of musid. Two instruments of sound are provided for, but they were of such a character as to make it impracticable to use them ordinarily as accompaniments of the voice in singing. The record is: "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps." "And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, thou shalt blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies. Also in the days of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt-offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace-offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the Lord your God."

The blowing of these trumpets as a signal for marching, or for going to war, had certainly nothing to do with worship, neither did the call of the congregation to assemble belong to the performance of worship, any more than a church bell now, the ringing of which ceases when the services begin.

There is nothing to show that the blowing of the trumpets, on festival days and at the beginning of months, over the offerings was accompanied by singing on the part of priests and Levites. There is no mention of that fact, and Jewish tradition opposes the supposition.

Moreover, it is almost certain that the blowing of trumpets on such occasions was a representative act performed by the priests, and that consequently it was not accompanied by the singing of the congregation. It is true that there is one recorded exception (2 Chron. 5:12, 13) which occurred, however, when the tabernacle had given way to the temple

This was when God gave David a Jebusite or pagan High Place because he was too afraid of God to go to the original Tabernacle. However, it was Solomon who moved up to Moriah and built a Temple whereas God had only promised David a Tabernacle or Tent.

At the dedication of the latter edifice, the priests blew the trumpets at the same time that the Levites sang and played upon instruments of music, as "to make one sound"
......but it is evident that on that great occasion of rejoicing,
......what was aimed at was not musical harmony,
......but a powerful crash of jubilant sound.

We are shut up to the conclusion that there was nothing in the tabernacle-worship, as ordered by Moses, which could be justly characterized as instrumental music.

This absence of instrumental music from the services of the tabernacle continued not only during the wanderings of the Israelites in the desert, but after their entrance into the promised land, throughout the protracted period of the Judges, the reign of Saul, and a part of David's.

When God "gave them kings in His anger" He promised that the kings would carry out the captivity and death penalty imposed when because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God sentenced them to return to BEYOND BABYLON. If you conclude that God commanded the animal slaughter with exorcism noise it is the PATTERNISM for those who have been abandoned to walk in their own ways which ALWAYS lusts for idols and idolatry.

No one denied that prior to the Disciple Sectarians which split the Disciples / Christian churches by imposing instruments based on the LAW OF SILENCE. Those known as The Church of Christ were never JOINED to the Disciples at any time other than agreeing to work jointly on projects. That ended--as the Disciples confessed--when the Millerites spooked them into believing that THEY had to save all of the Jews to ENABLE the return of Jesus in 1843. The name Millenniel Harbinger intended to EXPOSE all of the various theories. After cutting off assoiation by their missionary society it turned out that the JEWS didn't want to be saved and Jesus didn't return in 1843. The Jubilee heresy was based on the same need to JOIN everyone to enable Jesus to return Y2K.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Re: Maury Hills a Church of Christ

October 7 2009, 7:54 PM 

One would think that if a preacher had ever read Stephen's sermons denouncing the temple and the whole system; and the fact that it was because of their REJOICING or PLAY in musical idolatry that God turned them over to worship the STARRY HOST, they would never go to sleep until they found out the MYSTERY Jesus claimed had been hidden from the foundationof the world from the clergy.

For the readers, this is known as SABAZIANISM and any reader of the Bible of note understands that the MONARCHY was God's ABANDONMENT to something identical to BABYLONIANISM: older illustrations of the temple show a ZIGGURAT or a tower of Babylon.

Their EVIL PARENTHESIS would last until Jesus came to DESTROY it and defined by Paul when the Jews converted to Christ (being baptized) so they could read BLACK text on BROWN paper. If God turned them over to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST and NAMES them one by one, then whatever they call their GOD it is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They called the GOLDEN CALF their god.

Shame, shame, shame that people would peddle their craft--"The craftiest craft of all" says Alexander Campbell--when they don't even know the PLOT of the story. John calls all of the CRAFTSMEN including false preachers, singers and instrument players SORCERIERS.All of the church of Christ preachers are still failing to understand the story line. Because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, God turned the nation--under the tribe of Levi--to worship the starry host.

When the elders FIRED God and demanded a "senior pastor" as a king set over us, God understood that they wanted to WORSHIP like the nations. The nations or GOYIM would be your Babylonians, Canaanites, Egyptians and Greeks: exactly what God ABANDONED them to because of musical idolatry.

God promised that the KINGS would rob then, enslave them and carry out the captivity and death sentence. I would suggest that you read read:


From the time that Israel REJECTED GOD, He gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger after the kings had driven the people into slavery and spiritual death from failure to teach the Word of God.

The LEVITES were an old Egyptian cult connected with Molech worship in Egypt: that is why they burned infants in Jerusalem to the loud noise of instruments.

Because the priesthood was the ssme as other nations, the PRIESTS were male but they PERFORMED THE ROLE OF WOMEN. A cappella is performing the role of women by castrated singers. The style is till effeminate.

Before David this musical performance in Israel was that of FEMALES ONLY. For instance ALL of the elements of the priests robe were derived from feminine dress as with "pastors" and "choir" members. Here is the picture of the Ephod which was a Babylonian vulva

Before we preach that God commanded David to command instrumental music AS WORSHIP, I would begin to read the text as it is written.

1 Chr 15:27 And David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, and all the Levites that bare the ark, and the singers, and Chenaniah the master of the song with the singers:

Stola a woman's upper garment, or stole, as with the Greeks, worn by any one: squalid saeptus stol, Dress of a voluptuary, a CITHERN player, The priests of Isis [at Mount Sinai], Diana goddess of Light and the Moon.

"Its (pipe = to love passionately) was apparently a secular instrument and is never listed in the temple orchestra; only in Ps. 150:4 it is mentioned in a religious (but not ritual) function. Its ethos was not blameless at all, as we see from Genesis Rabbah 50:

'The angels said to Lot: 'There are players of the pipe (organ) in the country, hence it ought to be destroyed'." Its rabbinical identification with the aboda, the flute of the notorious Syrian bayaderes, emphasizes the erotic element which already the Hebrew name suggests." (Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 460, Abingdon).

"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria/b>. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with this harp.

The golden calf represented, Osiris, ISIS and Horus (father, mother and infant son0

Muliebris I.of or belonging to a woman, womanly, female, feminine. A. = pudenda muliebria, to let one's self be used as a woman

2.Of the Jewish priests, Vulg. 2 Macc. 3, 15.--

Luke 20:[46] "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk in long robes [stole], and love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts; [47] who devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers: these will receive greater condemnation."

Jesus marked the SCRIBES as HYPOCRITES (performers) by making His own prophecy more certain where He MARKS rhetoricians, singers and instrument players. The word HYPOCRITE exactly means speakers, singers, instrument players, dancers or actors.

Carthage was the mother of Molech worshipped in Jerusalem. The Levites learned the TRICKS of their trade in Egypt.

Speaking of a statue.

Cicero: of a sign of bondage: It was placed at Segesta on a very lofty pedestal, on which was cut in large letters the name of Publius Africanus; and a statement was also engraved that he had restored it after having taken Carthage. It was worshipped by the citizens; it was visited by all strangers; when I was quaestor it was the very first thing, they showed me. It was a very large and tall statue with a flowing robe, but in spite of its large size it gave the idea of the age and dress of a virgin; her arrows hung from her shoulder, in her left hand she carried her bow, her right hand held a burning torch.

The singing style of the Levites was FALSETTO or "as a damsel" or as a virgin.


Greek: Meiyl [4598] upper outer garment. From Maal [4603] cover up, act covertly, treacherous [4600 emasculate] 4604 treachery, transgression,

H4603 mâal maw-al' A primitive root; properly to cover up; used only figuratively to act covertly, that is, treacherously:transgress, (commit, do a) tresspass (-ing)

[linked image]

Why do you suppose that in view of John's prophecy of the Babylon mother of harlots that the persona of the "lusted after fruits" (Rev 18) has INVADED the church as performance preachers (actors), singers and instrument players? And if John MARKED them and called the SORCERERS why is there such a rush to give them cover.

You know, this doesn't matter: all of the recorded evidence is that people are hard-wired when they have spiritual worship connected to the sexual stimuli of music which induces an addictive drug.

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Musicators IMPOSE what Jesus REMOVED

October 19 2009, 4:24 PM 

Those who lie about all of the instrument terms in the Bible and recorded history say that in some way God TOLD them that they should deliberately sow discord by restoring the CURSE of the sacrificial system totally abandoned to paganism BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

If you don't know the meaning of ekklesia / synagogue it is pretty clear that you cannot BE one of those.

If you don't know the difference between being a DISCIPLE of what Christ commanded to be taught, and a ceremonial legalist then you CANNOT now be such a disciple.

You don't get to land on the Moon without knowing what is a NASA ASTRONAUT school. Nor, can you land on the moon by skipping class and attending the local musical.

No one ever suggested a role for MUSIC in the Church of Christ established in the wilderness without not KNOWING what happened, who then used the legalistic, doomed PATTERNISM of the Tribe of Levi.

Unless you have more immunity than the tribe of Levi whom Jacob had warned "do not attend their assemblies" you might consider yourself a spiritually dead man. If you have lied to impose and to drive away the owners the MARK will never burn off.

Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren;
......instruments [apparatus, psaltery, weapon]
......of cruelty are in their habitations. [stabbings, a pot or furnace]
Gen. 49:6 O my soul,
......come not thou into their secret;
......unto their assembly, mine honour, not thou united:
......for in their anger they slew a man,
......and in their selfwill [delight] they digged down a wall.

The mantra of Promise Keepers who purposed to "come into their assembly" was Tear Down The Walls!

Gen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce;
......and their wrath, for it was cruel:
......I will divide them in Jacob,
......and scatter them in Israel.

Looking far into the future for the spiritual priesthood.

Gen. 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy fathers children shall bow down before thee.

in Numbers when Korah and 250 of the famous or men of renown decided that they should have a part in the sacrificial system which God had laded on to the Tribe of Levi. As the ultimate way of repudiating famous men who want to be religious leaders Moses tells us their motive.

Num. 16:15 And Moses was very wroth, and said unto the LORD,
......Respect not thou their offering:
......I have not taken one ass from them,
......neither have I hurt one of them.

God's righteousness was to consume them in a moment: they were gathered before the Taberncle andthe went down into a pit and it closed over them. This caused the people to plead for mercy and an offering was made by Aaron to stop the plague. The "budding rod" miracle was to confirm that only Aaron and the Levites were ordained by God.


Num. 17:12 And the children of Israel spake unto Moses, saying,
......Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish.
Num. 17:13 Whosoever cometh any thing near unto the tabernacle of the LORD shall die:
......shall we be consumed with dying?

The tribe of Levi had been cursed by their father and WE were warned NOT to attend their assemblies. The Church was set up to QUARANTINE all civillians FROM their slaughter where they USED instruments for the BURNT OFFERINGS which Christ said HAD NOT BEEN COMMANDED.

Not in Jerusalem or the vilest pagan temple could singers or instrument players come NEAR the holy place or thing.

In Numbers 18 God confirmed that the honor the famous people was really being the sin bearers for the nation.

Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron,
......Thou and thy sons and thy fathers house with thee
......shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: [a sancturary whether for Jehovah or idols]
......and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.
......[Kahan, an old pagan priesthood]


If you miss the point that God turned the Levi tribe over to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST, and your preacher says that the Spirit "told him to impose that" God has provided a way of ESCAPE and not authority for the new class of Priests and Levites

H5771 âvôn âvôn aw-vone', aw-vone' From H5753; perversity, that is, (moral) evil:--fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

[linked image]

H5753 âvâh aw-vaw' A primitive root; to crook, literally or figuratively:--do amiss, bow down, make crooked, commit iniquity, pervert, (do) perverse (-ly), trouble, X turn, do wickedly, do wrong.

[linked image]

Jesus wants us to be saved FROM this perverse, CROOKED race and not JOIN THEM! The Scribes and Pharisees He identified as hypocrites: speakers, singers and instrument players.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Bow to Instruments or dare to be a Daniel?

October 23 2009, 4:42 PM 

Instrumental "noise" in Jerusalem was always a signal that no citizen must be inside the walls and that the "officials" must worship which means to fall on their face. The noise is not worship and does not contribute to worship: it is a FORCE to FORCE you to the ground.

In the case of Daniel Oil-Rig notes that there are 6 instruments named 6 times as in 666: another account OMITS one of the instruments. How strange. Daniel and his friends REFUSED to "worship" when the instruments were sounded. Isn't that an approved example?

NEBUCHADNEZZAR the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits (60), and the breadth thereof six (6) cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura (circle), in the province of Babylon. Dan 3:1

That at what time ye hear the sound of the (1) cornet, (2) flute, (3) harp, (4) sackbut, (5) psaltery, (6) dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: Dan 3:5

They claim that they can lead you into the presence of God. They claim that if you enthuse over the music then you are WORSHIPING GOD. So strange and so blind and so willingly.

On another thread we are discussing the SACKBUT: like all of these instruments they belong to the FEMALE or EFFEMINATE.

"The psaltery (psalterion, saltere, sauterie, Psalterium, Psalter, salterio) is an ancient intstrument seen in many forms. Early versions were simply a wooden board with gut strings stretched between pegs. The strings were plucked with fingers or by plectra (the name might have derived from the Greek psallein meaning plucked with fingers)

"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with this harp..

Nebel (h5035) neh'-bel; or nebel nay'-bel; from 5034; a skin- bag for liquids (from collapsing when empty); hence a vase (as similar in shape when full); also a lyre (as having a body of like form): - bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol

Nabel (h5034) naw-bale'; a prim. root; to wilt; gen. to fall away, fail, faint; fig. to be foolish or (mor.) wicked; causat. to despise, disgrace: - disgrace, dishonour, lightly esteem, fade (away, - ing), fall (down, -ling, off), do foolishly, come to nought, * surely, make vile, wither..

Nabal (h5036) naw-bawl'; from 5034; stupid; wicked (espec. impious): - fool (-ish, -ish man, -ish woman), vile person.

PSALLO outlaws plucking with a guitar pick. Psallo specificially OUTLAWS blowing a wind instrument, a piano, organ, drums even a tiny harp unless you use only your fingers.

When the scholars translated from Hebrew to Greek they understood that ALL of the psallo-derived words spoke of making war or making perverted love.

HERE IS ONE OF THE NACC'S PROOFS THAT PSALLO PERMITS PLUCKING. All of those diverting happy churches into using instruments build on the foundation by Tom Burgess who repeats all of the literary resources collected by O.E.Payne in the first attempt to JUSTIFY the use of instruments.

Plutarch, Lives (ed. Bernadotte Perrin) [4] Such objects are to be found in virtuous deeds; these implant in those who search them out a great and zealous eagerness which leads to imitation. In other cases, admiration of the deed is not immediately accompanied by an impulse to do it. Nay, many times, on the contrary, while we delight in the work, we despise the workman,

as, for instance, in the case of perfumes and dyes; we take a delight in them,

but dyers and perfumers we regard as illiberal and vulgar folk.

[5] Therefore it was a fine saying of Antisthenes, when he heard that Ismenias was an excellent piper:

"But he's a worthless man," said he, "otherwise he wouldn't be so good a piper."

That proves, says the musical invaders. PROVES that God wants us to pluck the flute as worship in church.

And so Philip once said to his son, who, as the wine went round, plucked the strings charmingly and skilfully, "Art not ashamed to pluck the strings so well?" It is enough, surely, if a king have leisure to hear others pluck the strings, and he pays great deference to the Muses if he be but a spectator of such contests.

Of course, Alexander was trying to seduce his favorite young boy. Didn't he die of some vile disease?

Yes, I know, all of the scholars say God has NOTHING bad to say about us using INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE: in Fact, Rick Atchley was told that GOD COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and WE MUST NOT BE DISOBEDIEND while He (Jesus) is trying to teach that which has been taught.

And all of the ditto head say AMEN!

 Respond to this message   
Brian Cade
(no login)

Re: Bow to Instruments or dare to be a Daniel?

February 13 2012, 2:28 AM 

I find it ironic and laughable that the anti-music champion finds it necessary to reference the title of one of the worst a capella songs ever written. He is consistently inconsistant. No wonder he sounds like a raving lunatic.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

I doubt not that you cannot read black text on white paper

February 13 2012, 3:49 PM 

Prior to that all religious musicians sang in a falsetto including the Levites and the Organum Singers in the Sistine and in ALL "praise singing."

Contrary to "using one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning" and keeping the UNITY of the Group where there was never any Command, Example or inference for group singing of silly simon's praise ditties. A cappella was already polyphonic or multipart and was "sacred choral music." We have detailed the horrors of A cappella here.

Acappella is a "fool the fool word" and is identical to the castrated opry singers in the 'chapel."

"The papacy also continued the practice of creating castratos (boys castrated before puberty to keep their singing voices high-pitched) for their own entertainment, long after it had fallen in disfavor throughout Italy."

"Into this artificial world came the castrati, who had first gained a place in Italian churches for their 'angelic' voices. Castratos are said to have been the world's first superstars, because of the great sums paid to them for their singing, and scheduled engagements that took them to cities across Europe, to please their enthusiastic followers.

"How can we hear their music today, since we have no more castratos to listen to? Well, during the current renaissance in Baroque music, some castrato roles have been carefully recreated by counter-tenors also known as male altos or sopranos. Other musici parts are sung by women who use a natural alto or soprano range,

but adopt a style which ATTEMPTS to make the music sound appropriately 'masculine', at least for male roles. There is much debate as to which is better--but keeping in mind the fact that most early composers wrote 'trouser' roles for women to sing, and that castratos frequently presented women's roles, especially in their youth, it would seem that gender stretching is an original part of this music, and perhaps one reason for its continuing dramatic impact."
"The practice reached its peak in 17th and 18th century opera. In Naples it is said that several barbershops had a sign that castration was performed there. However, this cannot be confirmed. The male heroic lead would often be written for a castrato singer (in the operas of Handel for example). When such operas are performed today, a woman (possibly cross-dressing as a man in a so-called trouser role) or a countertenor takes these roles. However, some Baroque operas with parts for castrati are so complex and difficult that they cannot be performed today."

The Church of Christ in the wilderness and throughout the Bible and most of church history was to READ and DISCUSS the Word waking in the steps of Jesus, Paul and all Biblical churches where there is NOT MUSICAL PERFORMANE OR PERFORMERS.

Yes, I know: no one can understand that. Won't Work "a cappella fellas."

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Re: Bow to Instruments or dare to be a Daniel?

February 5 2013, 10:41 PM 

The Anti-music Champion that you find laughable is Jesus Christ. Could you give one example where he used music to worship God or minister to people? In today's church when someone is ill or down and out, some church goer (not to be confused with a Christian) will send them a link to the service or a CD with the same recorded. Jesus would have gone to minister and never did he go to sing to them or play a banjo or bang a drum or strum a guitar or pluck a harp. Sounds like you got your Christianity off of the radio not from the heart of Jesus.

When will the Church return to following the example of Jesus rather than the example of RIck Warren?

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Re: Maury Hills a Church of Christ

October 26 2009, 1:34 PM 

At the ACU Summit 2009 this year the MOUNTAIN was their PATTERNISM for the Church: they missed the most important chapters. We can be certain that no one at the PEAK understood what happened at Mount Sinai: it was the musical idolatry of the Egyptian (etal) trinity. For this affront, rather than being a PATTERNISM for us, God removed His grace and abandoned them to worship the starry host: anyone having read Acts 7 would ask some questions before daring to preach.

They lectured on Exodus 31 and just HOPPED over Exodus 32. Here are some very rough notes

Exod 31:12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Exod 31:13 Speak thou also unto the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL,
......saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep:
......for it is a sign between me and you
......throughout your generations; [your revolution of time]
......that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

That doesn't sound like A DAY OF WORSHIP to me! The word KEEP is:

8104. shamar, shaw-mar´; a primitive root; properly, to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard; .

Exod 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you:
......every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death:
......for whosoever doeth any work therein,
......that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

The ANOTHER DAY of rest is the Greek PAUO which means to STOP the speaking, singing, playing and having a party.


[linked image]


The golden calf represented Apis a real bull calf in Egypt. This represented the always-pagan ftrinitiy of Osiris, Isis and Horus.

The Egyptian Opis (Apis) and others which Israel worshipped at Mount Sinal were worshipped throughout the area. "In preference to all other hymns these choirs generally sang the so-called epiphany hymns,which were intended to invite the gods to appear. Plutarch wrote:

Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:

......Come, Dionysus, Hero,
......into the holy temple of Elis,
......together with the Graces
......come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
......Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!"
......(Johannes Quasten, Music & Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 76)

"For NONLITERATE peoples, music often serves purposes other than entertainment or aesthetic enjoyment. Certain wind instrumentare closely associated with the supernatural, and their sounds connote powerful magic. Australian Aborigines, for instance, identify the sound of a bull-roarer with thevoices of supernatural beings; for the Plains Indians, the same sound signifies an awesome natural phenomenon, such as thunder. Wind instruments are often among a group's most important ritual objects, and in some cultures they are specially venerated. The Kamairua Indians of the Amazon rain forest keep their giant flutes (three to four feet long), wherein spirits are believed to dwell, in a special shrine where they are worshiped. The flutes and drums of New Guinea are similarly housed and worshiped.

"Wind instruments in primitive cultures also serve nonreligious functions. In New Guinea, bamboo trumpets were once played

to frighten an enemyduring battle and
to alert a village that the victorious warriors were coming home with the corpses of the foes.

"Conch-shell trumpets are used for signaling in the Pacific coastal regions of Columbia and in the Ecuadoran highlands.

Trumpets also may be associated with the office of king or chief, as in West Africa,
where their use is strictly controlled by tribal law. "wind instrument" Encyclopædia Britannica Online.

When Moses came DOWN from the Mountain ACU just SKIPPED the punch line. Moses recognized the sounds of VICTORY and the sounds of DEFEAT, but, he says IT IS SINGING THAT I HEAR. That meaning IDOLATRY .

Sorry, but there is no evidence that does not mark religious music as IDOLATRY and at Mount Sinai (HOPPED OVER BY ACU) sexual perversion. Look at Romans 1 to define Sinai.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Old wineskins religion in new skins; just in time

October 27 2009, 7:22 PM 

All pagans believed that the "gods" dwelled inside of the musical instruments: in an account similar to the Book of Enoch it is said that Satan taught the youth how to make and play instruments: when they played the instruments Satan came into them. This is something like the Psallo/Sop word which Jesus used to cause Satan to enter into Judas whose Judas bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments.

David tried to AWAKEN his lyre so that he could AWAKEN the Dawn

Euripides attributes instruments to Rhea, the mother of the gods or ZOE. Remembering that it was because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai that God turned them over to worship the starry host and sentenced them to return beyond Babylon; and that the old wineskin god was Bacchus or Dionysus. This is why Jesus said that the MEN were like CHILDREN piping trying to force others to sing or lament and dance the sexual initiation.

Anon shall the whole land be dancing, when Bromius leads his revellers to the hills, to the hills away! where wait him groups of maidens from loom and shuttle roused in frantic haste by Dionysus. O hidden cave of the Curetes!

[120] O hallowed haunts in Crete, that saw Zeus born, where Corybantes with crested helms devised for me in their grotto the rounded timbrel of ox-hide (lifeless instrument), mingling Bacchic minstrelsy with the shrill sweet accents of the Phrygian flute, a gift bestowed by them on mother Rhea, to add its crash of music to the Bacchantes' shouts of joy;

ACU is looking to the MOUNTAINS and missing the musical idolatry and Zoe wants to LOOK TO THE HILLS. Unfortunately, this was a question: Shall WE look to the mountain or hills gods for our salvation? No. Here is a quick Exodus 32 which ACU skipped over while coming down from the hills Rough notes for now but to join the majority of about half a dozen you might read it.

The Mother of Harlots in Revelation 17 uses lusted after "fruits" as speakers, singers and instrument players. John called them sorcerers.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Fallen Angels and Demons Paul connected to Lifeless Instruments

October 28 2009, 12:45 PM 

Question: who are the DEMONS?

Jesus talked about hell being prepared for Satan and his angels didn't he? Of course, angels means messengers. But the fallen angel theory seems to make more sense all around.

In 1 Corinthians 10 and Romans 10 Paul quoted from the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai: this was to prove to the Jews that they HAD fallen from grace and therefore were NOT predestinated to be saved. In 1 Corinthians 10 Paul identified this with DEMON worship: demon worship was often conducted under the bull (golden calf) representing the Egyptian and all pagan triads. This worship was always MARKED by vocal and instrumental rejoicing which is what Christ outlawed for The Church of Christ in the Wilderness. That was because the Church was to rest, read and rehears the Word of God: that never changed for several centuries after Christ: "singing" was what Moses heard as idolatry at Mount Sinai and no one imposed singing as an ACT (legalism) until the year 373.

Tertullian also wrote Chapter XXIII.

Moreover, if SORCERS call forth ghosts, and even make what seem the souls of the dead to appear;

if they put boys to death, in order to get a response from the oracle; if, with their juggling illusions, they make a pretence of doing various miracles;

if they put dreams into people's minds by the power of the angels and DEMONS whose aid they have invited, by whose influence, too, goats [cappella] and tables are made to divine,-

how much more likely is this power of evil to be zealous in doing with all its might, of its own inclination, and for its own objects, what it does to serve the ends of others! Or if both angels and demons do just what your gods do, where in that case is the pre-eminence of deity, which we must surely think to be above all in might?

The rise of the Musical worship team (thanks to Knowles etal) specificially claims that they can "lead you into the presence of God." [The discussion about whether dead men of the Restoration Movement are the DEMONS: No, I would say that the live MUSICATORS fulfil all of the marks of promoting demon worship ALWAYS identified by the sights and sounds of Lucifer's or Zoes]

Or that when we praise God lands on us like a platform: if you watch what we do and repeat it then you will also worship. The New Wineskins (aka Vinyard) claims that the praise singing can induce a sexual-like climactic experience with God: just before final act of worship calling "giving of substance." All musical terms in the Greek literature parse directly to enchantment or sorcery: Paul warned about the "voice of angels" when he equated a lact of love to Lifeless Instruments also called Carnal Weapons. Jesus also warned about them in Isaiah and Ezekiel by naming speakers, singers and instrument players.

Tertullian also confirms out thesis in Isaiah 30 that Christ is defining the ONLY purpose for which hell was prepared. The way we can SEE and HEAR demon worship. Judah put their TRUST in Egypt and were overcome by the Assyrians all identified as using MUSIC to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

Isaiah 30 uses the musical worship of the BULL DEMON Molech in Jerusalem to show FOR WHOM hell has been prepared:

Must ye always rejoice, and go into my holy places continually, as they that keep a feast? and must ye go with a PIPE as those that rejoice into the mountain of the Lord, to the God of Israel Isaiah 30:29 LXX

Isa 30:32 And is shall happen to him from every side,
......that they from whome their hope of assistance was, which he trusted, themselves shall war against him in turn with DRUMS and with HARP.

For thou shalt be required before thy time: has it been prepared for thee also to reign? nay, God has prepared for thee a deep trench, wood piled fire and much wood: the wrath of the Lord shall be as a trench kindled with sulphur. Isaiah 30:33 LXX

The SORCERY / DEMON worship and MUSIC is absolute well documented on clay tablets and the last time in Revelation 18.

Lucifer is called the Singing and Harp playing prostitute who wholly seduced Eve in the Garden: he/she is personified by the king/queen of both Tyre and Babylon:

Isa. 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave,
......and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee,
......and the MAGGOTS cover thee.
Is. 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer [ZOE], son of the morning! art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Is. 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
......I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Is. 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Is. 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Ezekiel and Josephus blame the LEVITES for national destruction.

October 31 2009, 10:29 PM 

Read your Old Testament. God chose the tribe of Levi. He chose Aaron's sons and even the line of Zadok. We should get our understanding of doctrine from the Bible, not Jospehus, not liberal commentaries, and not descriptions of paganism in Greece and the Ancient Near East.

This gets off track a bit but it is important to understand why there is so many passages in the prophets warning about a Spirit OF Fire and a Spirit OF judgment. Even with Cornelius 'embraced it was the BREATH of God which produced WORDS in the Judean language which the Jews clearly understood. This was a sign of Judgment upon the doubting Jews still ready to DENY baptism to the Gentiles unless they were circumscized and kept the Law of Moses which was added because of transgression and not a sign of predestination.

The REASON for this overwhelming with WIND or Breath of God and FIRE was to DISQUALIFY the Law of Moses and the NOT-commanded sacrificial system which burned lambs and children with fire. Nothing could have been a more powerful death blow to the exclusive Jews (Edomites probably) than to have JUDEANS speaking in NON-Hebrew about THEIR Messiah whom they could not deny but still murdered. Peter reached back a decade to prove to the doubting Jews that this was proof that the Spirit HAD BEEN poured out to the Gentiles long ago. Instead of an ANGRY WIND the baptized believer would have A holy spirit in which God thorugh His Word could dwell and be sought. This gave them REST from the curse of the Law where the service of the Levites was HARD BONDAGE using aword having the same meaning as abaddon or apollyon in Revelation.

.......Psa. 33:6 By the [1] word of the [2] LORD were the heavens made;
..............and all the host of them by the [3] breath of his mouth.
.......Psa. 33:7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap:
..............He layeth up the depth in storehouses.
.......Psa. 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD:
..............let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
.......Psa. 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

God abandoned Israel to worship the STARRY HOST because of sin at Mount Sinai. They were continuing their old Egyptian cult and the name LEVITE includes the tribe of Levi but it also points to the worship of Dionysus which coverered the whole area from Babylon, Canaan, Egypt and Greece. Acts 7 makes it clear with Amos that they continued the worship of Molech and other 'gods' representing the Sun, Moon and wandering stars or known planets. The Nacash in Genesis points directly to the NAGA or serpent and sun worshipers of Persia and India.

The Jewish Encyclopedia confirms what the Bible makes clear, that the Temple system was a NATIONAL or STATE sacrificial system. Christ in the prophets deny that this is what God commanded them when He saved them by pure grace. That was Sabazianism derived from Sabius or Dionysus / Bacchus: this was still part of the mindset of the Jewish clergy.

I would rather seek the advice of the almost-universal scholarly opinion than I would one trained as a speaker..

The Ghebers of Hebron 2 Hoaea, xii. 4 derives the name Inrael from Sarah to contend, to fight, and El = God of Fire. Gen. xxxii. '28. Asarians, Asriel, Israel, a name of the War god {Exodus, xiii. 21, 22, xiv. 25), Saturn and the Sun. The Fire-god Azar was the God of war, and M'irs was the Sun. Macrob. I. xvii. OS

For the Sabbath worshipers in the church: that was the day for the worship of ALL of the SUN gods.

The Jews blew the trumpet on the newmoon, poured out libations and offered burnt sacrifices. And for this duty the Lobii, Luim or Levites were assigned to do just what the Brahmans did in India. They ministered to la'hoh, Lord of Life, according to Exodus, iii. 14 ; xxxviii. 21; xl. 15; Jeremiah, xxxiii. 18. Hence the Jews were the Brahmaus of Palestine, as Josephus said, worshipping Brahma, whom, for their own political purposes, they chose to regard as Ab (Father) Ram (Most High) which title is not unsuitable to the Most High of the Hindu Gods. King states that the words brahrna and abrahm have the same numerical value.6

But these fire-worshippers carried with them the arks of Moloch and Khiun (Life-god), their Adon, and they had, like the other peoples of the Delta, their Mysteries, which the priests instituted. They took with them from Phoenicia, probably, a certain knowledge of fixed vocal signs; and it would not be safe to deny to Syria the possession of some sort of (Syrian) hieroglyphs

When the Gurus claim that Amos was just condemning "a bad mental attitude" then you grasp why Jesus fired the "doctors of the Law for taking away the key to knowledge."

Whatever the monarchs called "God" it was NOT the Jehovah of Jacob: He always hypenates His name to keep down the confusion. As Jesus He is Jehovah-Saves who came to save us FROM that "crooked race" probably Edomites and not Children of Israel..


.......> Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel;
..............Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. Jeremiah 7:21
.......For I spake NOT unto your fathers, nor commanded them the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
..............concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:22
.......> But this thing commanded I them, saying,
..............Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people:
..............and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you,
..............that it may be well unto you. Jeremiah 7:23
.......> But they HEARKENED NOT, nor inclined their ear,
..............but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart,
..............and went backward, and not forward. Jeremiah 7:24

That was ABSOLUTE when the elders FIRED God and demanded a human king. Just read the text of the first major PROPHET of doom:

In the name of common sense, WHY would anyone listen to anyone demanding that the SPIRIT told him to DO that to which God ABANDONED first Israel and then Judah?

Jacob says I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord!" Of Simeon and Levi the patriarch remarks that they

.......Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments [Sword or Musical]
..............of cruelty are in their habitations.
.......Gen. 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret;
..............unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united:
.............. for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wal

Habitations means "stabbing" from "a cooking range" or boiler, a pot or furnace. God knew that they had a lust for blood and flesh and that was the only rationale for the national or pagan sacrificial systems.

The Levites would be warriors and the latin is bellor To understand such words, the Greek and Latin literature must be read.

In Vergil Aeneid 11 the word Bello is used of the triumph over using music.

.......With such, return'd triumphant from the war,
.......Her maids with cries attend the lofty car;
.......They clash with manly force their moony shields;
.......With female shouts resound the Phrygian fields.

Gen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel:
.......I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

"Dan," he says, "shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse-heels, so that his rider shall fall backwards (i.e., he will teach candidates black magic) .

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, that his rider shall fall backward.

David was KING and the Levites were under the king and commanders of the army: they were not part of the priestly class and even to COME NEAR any holy thing would get them killed.

The Bible is a history of the HEBREW PEOPLE: as such, it includes the Civil-Military-Priestly class which in all nations served the STATE and gave glory to it: they did not serve the people but as God promised when He gave them a "king in His anger" that the Monarchy--as national idolatry--would destroy them.

Let me say it again: the Spiritual THREAD is defined by Christ in spirit through the WRITING PROPHETS. Only these earlier prophets and the later apostles LAID (past tense) the foundation of the Church. You can lay a foundation only once and this one is built on the ROCK (Christ in the wilderness church).

Once a will is probated by its testators it forever stands for the mind of the one making the Will.

It confirms the Bible that all of the historic scholars DENY that God needed a human king, priests and a sacrificial system QUARANTINED within the walls of the CITY: We as Christians go OUTSIDE of the city to find Christ and suffer REPROACHES with Him.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Re: Maury Hills a Church of Christ

November 2 2009, 10:23 PM 

This year ACU used the MOUNTAIN top them: when they came down they flat SKIPPED over Exodus 32. Now, why would a bunch of scholars bent on imposing the MUSICAL IDOLATRY which cause God to turn them over to worship the starry host just like in Babylon and back in Egypt? Well, you don't need school to be a scholar thse days.

If you have read Acts 7 you will understand Stephen saying that God turned them over to worship the STARRY HOST.

For we readers, #150 is NOT a Psalm but a HALAL which means to make yourself vile by making threats with all of the instruments derived from prostitutes: David made war, not worship.

If God ABANDONED them and sentenced them to return BEYOND BABYLON

......then how is it you are going to snatch bits and pieces of an ABANDONED group a pattern for the church which is a school (only) of the Bible (only).
......It has no staff or roles not directed to teaching THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT.

If you have read 2 Samuel you will discover that TIME WAS UP when the elders fired God and demanded a king like the nations. God knew that they wanted to WORSHIP like the nations. God claimed that He would not rescue them even if they repented and He did not. The Temple was like all pagan temples. If you read Stephen you will discover that God did not want nor need a Temple: trust Christ in the prophets and not the Scribes (hypocrites meaning speakers, singers and instrument players says Jesus).

......Then, what is it about kings being selected to carry out the robbing, stealing, starving them
......for lack of the Word and carrying out God's captivity and death sentence that causes people to
......lie to God and about God to impose the WARRIOR LEVITE'S INSTRUMENTS in a church
......which is a school (only) of the Bible (only)?

......The Levites were under the KING and the COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY. Why would your preacher
......think that he is a "king set over you" to appeal (always) to the Levites to aid him in the war?

......If a Levite came NEAR any holy thing or place he would be executed by the "brethren."
......They did their dirty work in the slaughter and burning pit which God did not command.
......The body or church of Christ was prefigured by the Holy Place. Why do you think you
......can use the Levites as authority without getting spiritually executed?

I will explain to you later what Stephen meant by their REJOICING and what is translated as PLAY. ACU using their mountain PATTERNISM just skipped past Exodus 32 which PROVES that God removed GRACE because of MUSICAL IDOLALTRY: they were not playing hopscotch. For now, let me define the word HALAL which is the root word for LUCIFER and has the same meaning as Chalal which defines the idolatry which began after Enosh when men began to PROFANELY call themselves Jehovah. It is translated, play the flute, steal people's inheritance, pollute or prostitute. You can take your pick. When Peter speaks of SPORTING do you think they were fishing?

I just can't explain why the UNIVERSAL pleading for instrumental music in the SCHOOL OF CHRIST if from a Warrior's praise song. Nor why people think it is a PSALM. And just why it is they want to go naked with David and make themselves vile. The BOOK of psalms contains only 57 true Mizmors.

You will notice that this fits the PATTERNISM of Israel being TURNED OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOSTS including LUCIFER (Zoe) who was Venus or the FALSE MORNING STAR.

......Then when you see David sing, dance, go naked and whirl around in a circle why would you NOT
......believe that He was worshiping the starry host? Rather than kill David, God had given him a
......Jebusite High Place already used for Sabazianism.

[linked image]

All of the instruments in Halal 150 (not a psalm) connect to bad people. For instance,

"The psaltery (psalterion, saltere, sauterie, Psalterium, Psalter, salterio) is an ancient intstrument seen in many forms. Early versions were simply a wooden board with gut strings stretched between pegs. The strings were plucked with fingers or by plectra (the name might have derived from the Greek psallein meaning plucked with fingers).

"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with this harp. Source

......H5035 nebel nêbel neh'-bel, nay'-bel From H5034 ; a skin bag for liquids
......(from collapsing when empty); hence, a vase (as similar in shape when full);
......also a lyre (as having a body of like form): bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol.

...... H5034 nâbêl naw-bale' A primitive root; to wilt; generally to fall away, fail, faint;
......figuratively to be foolish or (morally) wicked; causatively to despise, disgrace:disgrace,
......dishonour, lightly esteem, fade (away, -ing), fall (down, -ling, off), do foolishly,
......come to nought, X surely, make vile, wither.

The translaters of the Greek version used Psallo because it speaks of MAKING WAR or "shooting love arrows." It has no musical content: it means to PLUCK something. If you pluck a harp string it twangs but it does not make music. All of the PSALLO words demand plucking with the FINGERS but never with a plectrum. That eleminates a guitar pick, trumpet, drum, piano or organ which cannot be PLUCKED with your fingers.

ALL of the prooftext adduced by the Disciples for PSALLO have the context of older males plucking the harp to seduce a young boy.

Plutarch, Lives (ed. Bernadotte Perrin) [4] Such objects are to be found in virtuous deeds; these implant in those who search them out a great and zealous eagerness which leads to imitation. In other cases, admiration of the deed is not immediately accompanied by an impulse to do it. Nay, many times, on the contrary, while we delight in the work, we despise the workman,, for instance, in the case of perfumes and dyes; we take a delight in them,
......but dyers and perfumers we regard as illiberal and vulgar folk.

[5] Therefore it was a fine saying of Antisthenes, when he heard that Ismenias was an excellent piper:

......"But he's a worthless man," said he, "otherwise he wouldn't be so good a piper."

And so Philip once said to his son, who, as the wine went round, plucked the strings charmingly and skilfully, "Art not ashamed to pluck the strings so well?" It is enough, surely, if a king have leisure to hear others pluck the strings, and he pays great deference to the Muses if he be but a spectator of such contests.

The musicians in Revelation 18 were the MUSES known as dirty adulterers: they with the speakers and instrument players are called SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world.

In Revelation17 it is the rise (having risen) Babylon mother of harlots who uses "lusted after fruits" as here worship team of sorcerers. Not to worry: most musical and names of instruments are to perform ENCHANTMENT or WITCHCRAFT. These are the same "baskets of summer fruits) Amos warned about.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

For the musical bandits: thou shalt not practice sorcery.

November 4 2009, 7:03 PM 

When the Israelites refused to listen to the Word of God they rose up to PLAY in musical idolatry: as indicated in Romans 1 and lots of other passages the MUSICAL rituals both MARKED and CAUSED an outbreak of sexual perversion.

Because of that God abandoned them to worship the starry host. So, you are dealing with people who would use the CURSE of Sabazianism as their patternism for musical worship. Even though they made NOISE and worship means ot fall on your face.

You could lay out texts from the Serpent as a Musical Enchanter(ess) which Christ in the prophets called "the singing and harp playing prostitute", to the Alpha and Omega warning about the Babylon mother of harlots using lusted after "fruits" as speakers, singers and instrument players John called Sorcerers and they would STILL plead ignorance. I'm Convinced.

Dt 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

The Hebrew for "serpent" in Genesis 3:1 nachash which means to hiss, mutter or whisper as do enchanters. It also means in a secondary sense to divine, or enchant or mesmerize, as a snake often does before catching its prey. It also has the meaning to shine or sparkle, like bronze or copper. Some Scriptures also tell us that Satan has an extremely attractive appearance (see e.g. 2 Cor. 11:3, 14), and this Hebrew word therefore also conveys the meaning to fascinated bewitch. (Cp. Deut. 18:10-14).

Dt 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

As the speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18.

God turning them over to worship the STARRY HOST is THEIR authority and they use the COMMANDS to worship like the Babylonians as THEIR commands for worship BECAUSE God never said "Thou shalt not worship like the Babylonians.


For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. Deut 18:14

Observer of times:

H6049 ânan aw-nan' A primitive root; to cover; used only as denominative from H6051 ,
to cloud over; figuratively to act covertly, that is, practise magic, enchanter, Meonemin, observe (-r of) times,
soothsayer, sorcerer.

Anath (h6067) an-awth'; from 6030; answer; Anath, an Isr.: - Anath.

Anan (h6049) aw-nan'; a prim. root; to cover; used only as denom. from 6051, to cloud over; fig. to act covertly, i. e. practise magic: - * bring, enchanter, Meonemin, observe (-r of) times, soothsayer, sorcerer.
Anath: This Canaanite Goddess' name means 'to answer' and may be related to the Akkadian word ettu meaning 'active will.160' She was a major deity all over the western parts of the Near East, including Egypt where she was later considered to be the same Goddess as Libyan Neith. Titles for her include Belet'net 'virgin Anath,' 'Nethebely161 'the destroyer,' and Yebemet-limm 'widow of the nation(?)'162. Her worship extended from the 2nd millenium BCE deep into the Hellenistic Age, when it began to be forced underground. Like the original Athena, she ruled battle, the hunt, and the passage of souls from one world to the next. She was also a Death Goddess who wore the goatskin aegis -- or at least, the Egyptians attributed Neith's aegis to her. This sacred garment has been described as a cloak, apron, breastplate, or shield. In Anath's case, it shifted in function as religious ceremony changed. Originally it was probably a garment worn by each Libyan woman when she came of age, made of cloth and marked with snakes and Moon symbols, or made of many braids of string.

Later it was remade, parts of its feminine symbolism removed and turned into a garment worn during animal sacrifices. Then it was decorated with severed penises, representing both types of death men experience, loss of erection and the ending of their lives.

Those who have been MUSICATED cannot bring themselves to grasp that as promised the WOMEN and CHILDREN (effeminate) rule over you. I just smile and smile because I have read Isaiah 3 written by Christ.

Lucifer (Zoe) replaced 3 tribal stones on the breastplate with wind, string and percussion instruments. Christ in Isaiah 30 says that hell was prepared for him/her and those they can seduce. The SOUNDS of being driven into hell are the same wind, string and percussion instruments. Christ says that Lucifer/Zoe was the singing and harp playing prostitute in the Garden Eden.

When the Levites (an old Egyptian Cult) were to PROPHESY with instruments: the word means a SOOTHSAYER. Why NOT if God turned the musical patternist's APPROVED EXAMPLE over to worship the STARS? The linen garment of the priests was something like a "nighty" garment. The Ephod was a Babylonian vulva still worn by the Pope under his DAGON hat.

[linked image]

Actually, everywhere you look, it seems, they're dancing in their dresses. So we thus find The Childrens custom of dressing "like a woman," from which the later Christian priests adopted their heavenly skirts. And with the ancient KABIRI statue of a god called Cabeiros,

Plutrarch says they were the astronomers and astrologers of Chaldea around 3200 B.C.
According to Herodotus, they surfaced some 2,000 years after that as an effeminate priesthood in what is now southern Russia and present-day Ukraine. They were called the ENAREE, "endowed by the goddess Venus with the gift of prophecy."

They can also be found transformed into the wild young goat man, PAN [Beast in Revelation], frolicking through the glades. As the GALLI priest [Galatians 5] with (according to another tight-assed academic) their "revolting sensual rites [and] the hermaphroditic element," their drums thundered and cymbals clashed, spreading magic among the onlookers lining the flower-strewn streets.

Heredotus also note what is clear from the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai, the "god" of the Jews was Bacchus or Dionysus: the same "new wineskin God." The Jews at the time of Christ were addicted to Dionysus worship and wanted to "initiate" Jesus and hoped that John wore the "soft clothing." Zeus (father) and Dionysus (son) were worshipped as the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple. All priests were "gay brotherhoods."


David had these on his staff because he was abandoned to worship the starry host.

"We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain Levites, called me'oreim, 'AROUSERS,' sang (every morning?) this verse from "Ps 44:23: "Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever." The Talmud tells us that John Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom." (Roland de Vaux, p. 247).

H5172 nâchash naw-khash' A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate:-- X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.
H5175 nâchâsh naw-khawsh' From H5172 ; a snake (from its hiss):--serpent.

Ps 58:5 Which will not hearken to the voice [singing] of cha

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Levites Mocked at the cross: how you can REcrucify Him

November 12 2009, 3:26 PM 

Galatians 5:16
"So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature."

We often miss the PUNCH LINE.
Paul, and history agrees, that Paul never speaks of "spirit" as a person much less a third member of the Godhead. In Romans 7-8 Paul's conflict was between HIS spirit and HIS flesh. That conflict continues as we speak.

Gal. 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh:
and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Apokopto (g609) ap-ok-op'-to; from 575 and 2875; to amputate; reflex. (by irony) to mutilate (the privy parts): - cut off. Comp. 2699.

Gregory Nazianzen

Nor are we concerned with Phrygian mutilations and flutes and Corybantes, and all the ravings of men concerning Rhea [Zoe], consecrating people to the mother of the gods, and being initiated into such ceremonies as befit the mother of such gods as these. Nor have we any carrying away of the Maiden, nor wandering of Demeter, nor her intimacy with Celei and Triptolemi and Dragons; nor her doings and sufferings ... for I am ashamed to bring into daylight that ceremony of the night, and to make a sacred mystery of obscenity. Eleusis knows these things, and so do those who are eyewitnesses of what is there guarded by silence, and well worthy of it. Nor is our commemoration one of Dionysus, and the thigh that travailed with an incomplete birth, as before a head had travailed with another; nor of the hermaphrodite god, nor a chorus of the drunken and enervated host; nor of the folly of the Thebans which honours him; nor the thunderbolt of Semele which they adore. Nor is it the harlot mysteries of Aphrodite, who, as they themselves admit, was basely born and basely honoured; nor have we here Phalli and Ithyphalli, shameful both in form and action; nor Taurian massacres of strangers; nor blood of Laconian youths shed upon the altars, as they scourged themselves with the whips; and in this case alone use their courage badly, who honour a goddess, and her a virgin. For these same people both honour effeminacy, and worship boldness.

NOTES: 11 There was a temple of Rhea in Phrygia, in which at her festivals people mutilated themselves to do her honour. The flutes alluded to served to turn the thoughts of the sufferes from the pain of the operation.

The Corybantes were the ministers of the goddess, who led the wild orgies of her worship. It is believed that there is an allusion to this practice of self-mutilation in Galat. v. 12. So at least S. Jerome, S. Ambrose, and all the Greek Fathers take the passage. S. Thomas Aquinas, understanding the word in the same sense, applies it mystically; and Estius, who here follows Erasmus, refers the "cutting off" merely to excommunication, a sense which he calls "Apostolico sensu dignior,"through why "dignior" it is not easy to see. Yet he acknowledges that those who interpret it literally do so "non immerito."
Here is what an agitator does to recrucify Christ

Anastatoo (g387) an-as-tat-o'-o; from a der. of 450 (in the sense of removal); prop. to drive out of home, i.e. (by impl.) to disturb (lit. or fig.): - trouble, turn upside down, make an uproar, to stir up, excite, unsettle to excite tumults and seditions in the state to upset, unsettle, minds by disseminating religious error

Psallo psallô I. In gen., to play upon a stringed instrument; esp., to play upon the cithara, to sing to the cithara: psallere saltare elegantius, Horace Odes 4:13.7. Jucundus, Voluptuosus

Elegant Elego I. to convey away (from the family) by bequest, to bequeath away

Have you noticed that when they resurrected the PSALLO word they KNEW that they would sow discord and DRIVE AWAY the family? This is to RECRUCIFY CHRIST.


Against Catiline [23] In these bands are all the gamblers, all the adulterers, all the unclean and shameless citizens. These boys, so witty and delicate, have learnt not only to love and to be loved, not only to sing and to dance, but also to brandish daggers and to administer poisons; and unless they are driven out, unless they die, even should Catiline die, I warn you that the school of Catiline would exist in the republic.

Horace Odes 4.13
The gods have heard, the gods have heard my prayer;
Yes, Lyce! you are growing old, and still
You struggle to look fair;
You drink, and dance, and trill
Your songs to youthful Love, in accents weak
With wine, and age, and passion. Youthful Love!
He dwells in Chia's cheek,
And hears her harp-strings move.


Melpô, Sing or celebrate a song and dance Melos to which a song is set, tune 3. melody of an instrument, Mouso-polos, on, A.serving the Muses, poetic II. Subst., bard, minstrel, AS THE: Aoidos A.singer, minstrel, bard, 3.enchanter, Eunouchos Eunouchos A.castrated person, eunuch, employed to take charge of the women Gallos, ho, A. priest of Cybele, Used with: Pempô, 2. pompên p. conduct, or take part in, a procession, chorous move in dancing procession, phallos Dionusôi pempomenos carried in procession in his honour

Chrysostom's Commentary on Galatians:

Galatians 5:1.-"With freedom did Christ set us free; stand fast therefore.115 ."

Ver. 12.

"I would that they which unsettle you would even cut themselves off." And he says well "that unsettle you."
"A man that is heretical after the first and second admonition refuse." (Tit. iii: 10) If they will,

let them not only be circumcised, but mutilated.

Where then are those who dare to mutilate themselves; seeing that they draw down the Apostolic curse, and accuse the workmanship of God, and take part with the Manichees? ... But if you will not allow this,

why do you not mutilate the tongue for blasphemy, the hands for rapine, the feet for their evil courses, in short, the whole body?

For the ear enchanted by the sound of a flute hath often enervated the soul;
and the perception of a sweet perfume by the nostrils hath bewitched the mind, and made it frantic for pleasure.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

LU folly filthtrates Filipino church

November 13 2009, 1:29 PM 

Eusebio Tanicala: 13 Steps to a Better Understanding Why the Use of Mechanical Instruments of Music in Christian Worship Lacks New Testament Authority In Bible Study Lessons, Features on January 29, 2009 at 5:35 am

However, what he proves is that the OLD TESTAMENT had absolute authority and that Christian Worship simply LACKS AUTHORITY which would be a command, example or inference. Both the Old and New Testaments are filled with word meanings which repudiate music in the not commanded sacrificial system and identifies it with the always-perverted pagan religions.

Eusebio lists several steps from the Old Testament to PROVE that God commanded and approved instrumental music in worship. Why are we not surprised when most preachers in the CONSERVATIVE church of Christ teaches and believes the same things. Men of NOTE will hurt you real bad if you suggest that this was not the old legal PATTERNISM. HOWEVER, God has changed His Mind and given us a NEW LAW OF WORSHIP which does nothing more than simply OMIT naming instruments.

Those wanting to impose instruments will never be convinced by the claimed LACK OF EVIDENCE. Christ speaks through the Prophets and not the Scribes whom he identified as hypocrites by naming speakers, singers and instrument players.

This material is published for the Filipino Brethren.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Do only ignorant fools believe that Amos condemned instrumental worship?

November 15 2009, 4:01 PM 

DID GOD COMMAND INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC AS WORSHIP IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. Jesus warned that doctors of the law have the purpose driven goal to "take away the key to knowledge." That is why they deliberately ignore God's use of religious music as the MARK of Satan from Genesis to Revelation. No historic scholar was so ignorant that they would claim what the THOUGHT LEADERS who have infiltrated churches of Christ to DIVERT them claim as scholarly.

1. It is safe to say that all of the "conservative" preachers in the Church of Christ believe and teach that GOD COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC as worship under the OLD LAW.
2. But, because we live under a NEW LAW and instruments are not commanded as part of that Law.
3. We do not use instruments because it is simply NOT COMMANDED

* It is also safe to say that most preachers, the theological scholars at once-Christian colleges and even the Greek and Hebrew scholars believe and teach
* That even with the long list of the ACTS including the use of singing with instrumental music in the temple was not wrong within itself (since it was, they believe, commanded by God).
* However, God just condemned their bad mental attitude.

One could reasonably ask whether these people supported by non-instrumental groups do not INTEND to givbe aid and comfort to the instrumental discorders.

Are people who think that Amos condemned the FACT of singing and instruments in the temple just ignorant fools?

Part One 13 Steps to understand the the use of Instruments

Part Two: Insisting that God COMMANDED the use of instrumental Music under the Law

Part Three: Question on Amos 5:23

By Eusebio Tanicala

To my brethren and especially members of the PBC alumni association, please open your Bible to Amos 5:23.
Please open your eyes and your mind.
What is the first part of v. 23? It says,
Take away from Me the noise of your songs.
If v. 23 prohibits the use of stringed instruments,
should not singing also be prohibited.

Both Amos and the Classics repudiate singing AND playing an instrument at the same time: that would be for the women and effeminate in most societies.

But why do you sing in your worship time? Why do you sing in your birthday celebrations? Why do you sing during funeral services? Why apply prohibition on the second part of the verse but not in the first part of the verse.

Indeed, those who know the context of Amos and consistency as well as simple logic would only laugh at Churches of Christ preachers who use Amos 5:6 in arguing against the use of instruments of music.

I plead with fellow preachers and church leaders to STOP using Amos 5 and Amos 6
as proofs against the use of instruments of music in worship.
Using them as proofs against instrument of music in worship
would only reveal ignorance and would help perpetuate wresting of scriptures.
Further, a foolish and weak argument against a practice removes the sting of ones advocacy. ( Eusebio Tanicala, Ph.D.)

How then should we interpret Amos 5:21-25 and Amos 6:4-6? Are the items enumerated prohibited? How do we interpret You sing idle songs to the sound of the harp, and you fancy yourselves to be great musicians, as King David was? (NLB)

Second, we should be consistent. Look at the context. If the portion, I will not hear the melody of thy viols (5:23). were a prohibition on the use of instruments of music at the time of Amos, then to be contextually consistent, all others in the context disliked by Yahweh, like feast days, solemn assemblies, burnt offerings, meat offerings, peace offerings, drinking with the use of bowls, eating fatted cows, lying on soft beds, ..


......"we recognize the same elements: the sacrifices and libation, the cultic feast in which the congregation gets a share of food and drink after it has been blessed by the king, and the merry-making, now in the form of instrumental and vocal music. But the central act of the ritual, which was performed by the king, is called literally 'drinking' the god (Gurney, O. R. Some Aspects of Hittite Religion, p. 33-34, Oxford University Press, 1977)

......"Sacrifices, rituals, festivals honoring Yahweh abounded, but these rites were tangible evidence of lack of knowledge, for they expressed the popular belief that Yahweh could be pleased and pacified by cultic ceremonies.

......"The condemnation of cultic rites introduced in 4:4 f. and 5:4 f. is picked up again with new vehemence. It has been argued that Amos was not opposed to cultic ritual per se but condemned the mind set of the people by which responsibility to Yahweh was performed perfunctorily and without relationship to daily life and society.

"If we take Amos' words as they stand, there seems to be little doubt that he condemned the entire religious pattern--feasts, sacrifices, ritual music, offerings, tithes--everything. Gerald LaRue, History of the O.T

......NO command of God was ever so ascribed to man. The use of the instruments of music in the Old Testament were of man, not of God." (Tract on music, Lipscomb).

......"Doubtless they sounded harmoniously in their own ears; but it reached no further. Their melody, like much Church-music, was for itself, and ended in itself. 'Let Christian chanters learn hence, not to set the whole devotion of Psalmody in a good voice, subtelty of modulation and rapid intonation, quavering like birds, to tickle the ears of the curious, take them off to themselves and away from prayer, lest they hear from God." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 300)

"Surely these inspired statements are sufficient to show that David made, invented, and commanded the use of instruments of music in divine worship. Where does revelation explain that God made, invented, appointed, or commanded the use of instrumental music in ordained worship of that age? On the basis of plain declarations, the contention that David introduced the idea is founded; in the absence of such testimony that God is the author, we reject the opinion that God authorized the practice." (L.O. Sanderson, p. 350).

......"From the beginning, then, it was not so. Neither is it a part of or aid to Christian worship. Since there is no record of God ordaining the practice, he must have simply tolerated or indulged it, just as he did regarding some ignorance, kings, divorces, and polygamy" (Sanderson, p. 351).

"It was by the hand or commandment of the Lord and his prophets that the Levites should praise the Lord; for so the Hebrew text may be understood:

"and it was by the order of David that so many instruments of music should be introduced into the Divine service." (Adam Clark, Commentary on 2 Chron. 29:25).

Then Clark says:

......"But were it evident, which it is not, either from this (2 Chron. 29:25) or any other place in the sacred writings, that instruments of music were prescribed by Divine authority under the law, could this be adduced with any semblance of reason that they ought to be used in Christian Worship? No..." (Adam Clark, Commentary, Vol. II, PP. 690-691).

"I believe that David was not authorized by the Lord to introduce that multitude of musical instruments into the divine worship of which we read; and I am satisfied that his conduct in this respect is most solemnly reprehended by this prophet; and I further believe that the use of such instruments of music in the Christian church is without the sanction and against the will of God; that they are subversive of the spirit of true devotion...if there was a woe to them who invented instruments of music, as did David under the law, is there no those who introduce them?" (Adam Clark, Commenting on Amos 6:5).

......"It is foreign also to the piety of Clement that the (song) instituted for drinking companies, to be sung in the convivial feasts of the Gentiles... As if he [Clement] did not know that Psalms, not 'wine songs,'... were recited at the close of the Supper... I say that so great a profanation of the Psalms is most severely condemned by God in the third [commandment] of the Decalogue and Amos 5:23; 6:5" (Joseph Bingham, Antiq. of the Christian Church, Vol. 2, p. 485 quoting Clement).

......"...Scriptures do condemn the use that David made of the instruments in worship--Amos 6:5: 'Woe to them... that chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;' and Amos 5:23: 'Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.' The condemnation of the instruments of music in this passage turns on the phrase like David--it does not say like David's, which could refer only to the instruments, but like David is the use that David made of the instruments. David did not invent the musical instrument--Jubal invented the instruments (Gen. 4:21)--but David invented them for worship--they were David's innovation." (Wallace, p. 177).

......"Amos, we are told, is the sharpest critic of musical instruments in pre-Christian times. through him God expresses a preference for justice and honesty over bloody sacrifice and its attendant music of song and instruments. This sentiment, we are told, was revolutionary, making part of a similar change felt over the civilized world... And overall view of the evidence, McKinnon thinks, reveals a relationship between the three elements: a higher conception of God, a rejection of sacrifice, and a rejection of musical instruments." (Green, William M, Pepperdine College, in Restoration Quarterly, v. 19, 1966).

......"To hear a man's or woman's voice sing Handel's solo... beats through one's chest with some sort of a throb depending on how well he or she is singing, and how much you respond to this kind of music. But no matter how much you may 'enjoy' Handel's solo, the words are not meant to be entertainment." (Schaeffer, Edith, Christianity is Jewish, p. 1)

...... "Amos stressed "that violations of the moral law could not be remedied by means of festive rites, offerings, or liturgical indulgence on the part of the sinner. In point of fact, God was already standing beside the altar (Am. 9:1ff), poised and ready to shatter it. No ritual, however, elaborate and symbolic in nature, could possibly substitute for the sincere worship of the human spirit, grounded in high moral and ethical principles." (Harrison, p. 895).

...... "Not surprisingly, most Israelites declined the prophet's invitation to enter into a dialog with Yahweh. They preferred a less demanding religion of cultic observance either in the Jerusalem Temple or in the old fertility cults of Canaan. This continues to be the case: the religion of compassion is followed only by a minority; most religious people are content with decorous worship in synagogue, church, temple and mosque. The ancient Canaanite religions were still flourishing in Israel... the Israelites were still taking part in fertility rites and sacred sex there, as we see in the oracles of the prophet Hosea, Amos' contemporary." (Armstrong, Karen, A History of God, p. 47).

F. B. Bruce is one of the best known modern writer and one might expect that he would defend the denominational practice. However, he like most who rest on their scholarship tell the truth. He wrote--

......"The Holy Spirit, uttering His voice by Amos, pronounces the rich to be wretched on account of their luxury: 'Those that drink strained wine, and recline on an ivory couch,' he says; and what else similar he adds by way of reproach. Especial regard is to be paid to decency (as the myth represents Athene, whoever she was, out of regard to it, up the pleasure of the flute because of the unseemliness of the sight). (Clement of Alexandria, p. 245).

"...these same people were punctilious in their religious observances. Never did such abundant sacrifices smoke to Yahweh from the altars at Dan and Bethel and other sanctuaries in Israel; and the note of praise rose regularly and loudly from tongue and harp. Was not this the worship in which Yahweh delighted? So they thought, but the voice of Yahweh through His prophet told a different story." (F.F. Bruce, Israel, p. 58).

Bruce shows, along with the LXX, that (1) music was used as worship, (2) they thought that God would delight in it, but (3) God condemned it. This refutes those who deny that Amos said anything about music and it supports the clear statement and context of the book of Amos.

Most ancient scholars not only condemn music as worship but show that it had its origin in pagan superstition and was the product of the poets (songs as magical incantations)--

......"It was only permitted to the Jews as sacrifice was, for the heaviness and grossness of their souls. God condescended to their weakness, because they were lately drawn off from idols; but now, instead of organs, we may use our own bodies to praise him withal." (Chrysostom on Psa. 149, Vol. iii, p. 634).

"I say that so great a profanation of the Psalms is most severely condemned by God in the third [commandment] of the Decalogue and Amos 5:23; 6:5, 5" (Joseph Bingham, Antiq. of the Christian Church, Vol. 2, p. 485 quoting Clement)

"It is foreign also to the piety of Clement that the (song) instituted for drinking companies, to be sung in the convivial feasts of the Gentiles... As if he [Clement] did not know that Psalms, not 'wine songs,'... were recited at the close of the Supper... I say that so great a profanation of the Psalms is most severely condemned by God in the third [commandment] of the Decalogue and Amos 5:23; 6:5" (Joseph Bingham, Antiq. of the Christian Church, Vol. 2, p. 485 quoting Clement).

"This passage (Amos 5:23-24) shows us that Amos was opposed the forms in which people acted out their worship of God,
...... and other passages strengthen this impression.

......Turning back to the Mosaic period, Amos asks the rhetorical question: 'Did you bring to me sacrifices and offerings the forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel?" (5:25). He is merciless in his attack on the shrines, especially the royal shrine of Jeroboam II at Bethel (3:14; 7:7-9, 10-17; 9:1). It is very doubtful, however, that he intended a wholesale abolition of the system of worship. Rather, Amos was probably demanding that the cult be purified, for it had become so contaminated by pagan thought and practice that the people had become indifferent to the true worship of Yahweh and the demand of his torah... He demanded that everything be swept away that did not conform to the proper worship of Yahweh." (Anderson, Bernard, Understanding OT, p. 277).

...... "The prophets were singularly unimpressed by all this religious busyness. They asserted that the people had abandoned the true God for heathen idolatries and that their much-frequented sanctuaries were sinks of iniquity. Recent archaeological discoveries go a long way towards confirming their condemnation of popular religion. It is significant, for example, that on the ostraca from eighth-century Samaria, the proportion of names compounded with Baal suggests that no less than a third of the population practiced some form of Canaanite religion." (Heaton, E. W., Everyday Life in the Old Testament, Scribners), p. 231).

......You have lifted up the shrine of your king, the pedestal of your idols,
the star of your god -- which you made for yourselves. -- Amos 5:26

...... Yea, ye took the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Raephan,
the image of them which ye made for yourselves." Amos 5:26 LXX

......"The neighboring gods of Phoenicia, Canaan, Moab--Baal, Melkart, Astarte, Chemosh, Moloch, etc--were particularly attractive to Jerusalem, while the old Sem calf-worship seriously affected the state religion of the Northern Kingdom...the worship of the sun, moon, stars and signs of the Zodiac became so intensely fascinating that these were introduced even into the temple itself (2 Ki. 17:16; 21:3-7; 23:4, 12; Jer. 19:13; Ezek. 8:16; Amos 5:26)" (Int Std Bible Ency., Idolatry, p. 1448).

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Re: Maury Hills a Church of Christ

November 21 2009, 1:27 PM 


Starting with Moses God instituted the Jewish laws and the Jews were commanded to do them. This was the beginning of the dispensation of law and was in effect, for the Jews, until the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 AD. God's relationship with the nation of Israel was one of faith in God, AND doing the works of the law (faith + works, James 2:24). If you can see it, the main thing that Jesus told the Jews is that they had left out the "faith in God" part and only had faith in their religion (works) (read Luke 7:1-9 and notice verse 9 and read John 5:38-40).

Neither Abraham nor Rahab were JEWS and they were never under the Law of Moses.

James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way

THE FAITH is contrasted to THE LAW. This is not related to personal faith: If a Jew by faith obeyed every jot and tittle of The Book of The Law they would not be one bit more righteous. God did not NEED a covenant or system of religious acts to approve people:

......Acts 10:35 But in every nation
............he that feareth him,
............and worketh righteousness, accepted with him
......Psa. 15:1 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
......Psa. 15:2 He that walketh uprightly,
............and worketh righteousness,
............and speaketh the truth in his heart.

There is no way to perform priestly roles. God has no interest in ceremonial legalism. He does not judge by what he seees or hears. So, get a job like Paul commanded Timothy so you can minister to the poor.

There is only one Spiritual Covenant: that made by Christ to Abraham. Abraham was not a Jew and the Covenant of Grace was to bless ALL NATIONS. There were 70 known nations at this time. The later Israelites lost faith and went into Egyptian Captivity for 430 years. The promise by Christ to the NATIONS was BEFORE the law and the Law of Moses did not REPLACE the Abrhamic covenant.

That Book of the Covenant of Grace was offered to Israel at Mount Sinai but before it could be written down they TURNED BACK to their old Babylonian / Egyptian worship of the heavenly bodies (Sabazianism). God saw this as their REJECTION of Grace and of HIM so he came with a FIREY LAW to govern them until the captivity and death sentence could be carried out.

From the wilderness onward, the godly people not of the cursed tribe of Levi attended the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness. They were quarantined outside the gates where the blood and flesh lust of the Levi tribe took place.

One value of the New Covenant is that the Abrahamic Covenant of Grace is restored, empowered by Jesus Christ as the SOLE Rabbi ONLY when the leaders "teach that which has been taught." You cannot even HALLUCINATE any musical content when Jesus is present and teaching us as DISCIPLES and not as CEREMONIAL LEGALISTS DOING WORSHIP.

The other value is that the EVIL Civil-Military-Priestly system has been cut down with its houses built by human hands.

......Ezek. 16:1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
......Ezek. 16:2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
......Ezek. 16:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem;
............Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan;
............thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
......Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city,
............which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,
............where also our Lord was crucified.

That is what many are PURPOSED DRIVEN to restore as quickly as their evil little hands can restore it.

......Gal. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which
............are OF FAITH, the same are the children of Abraham.
......Gal. 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,
............preached before the gospel unto Abraham,
............saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
......Gal. 3:9 So then they which be OF FAITH are blessed with faithful Abraham.


......Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven,
............and will give unto thy seed all these countries;
............and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
......Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham
............obeyed my voice,
............and kept my charge, commandments, statutes,
............and my laws.
......Gen. 26:6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:

......Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written,
............Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things
............which are written in the book of the law to do them.
......Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
............for, The just shall live by faith.
......Gal. 3:12 And the law is not of faith:
............but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
......Gal. 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,
............being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

......Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;
............that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
......Gal. 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men;
......Though it be but a mans covenant, yet if it be confirmed, man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

......The Israelites refused to listen to The Book of The Covenant.
......They engaged in musical idolatry.
......God turned them over to worship the starry host of their old Babylon or Egypt.
......The Book of The Law was to regulate the Civil-Military-Clergy national system
............It had no ability to cleanse the conscience.

......Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers,
............A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
......Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass,
............that every soul, which will not hear that prophet,
............shall be destroyed from among the people.

......He that believeth AND is baptized SHALL BE saved
......He that believith NOT shall be damned.
......Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world,
............and preach the gospel to every creature. [No Jew-Gentile distinction]
......Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
............but he that believeth not shall be damned.

......Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Acts 3:24
......Ye are the children of the prophets,
............and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham,
............And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Acts 3:25

......That is why the Prophecies made more certain by Jesus Christ are our SPIRITUAL FATHERS
......Under the ONLY SPIRITUAL covenant of Grace.
......FLEE from Babylon when any simpleton tells YOU that the Spirit told HIM that the sacrificial
......Horror is YOUR pattern for musical worship.

......Unto you first
............God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, turning away every one of you from his iniquities. Acts 3:26

......Turning means to be converted means to be baptized FOR the remission of sins.

......Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
............He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one,
............And to thy seed, which is Christ.

......Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God IN Christ,
............the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul,
............that it should make the promise of none effect.

......Gal. 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise:
............but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

......Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law?
............It was added because of transgressions,
..................till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
......and it was ordained by angels in the HAND of a mediator.

......"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it;
...... but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection
...... of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

......Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey.
............And the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

......Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man,
............and wondered that there was no intercessor:
............therefore his arm brought salvation unto him;
............and his righteousness, it sustained him.

......Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate,
............and a helmet of salvation upon his head;
............and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
............and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

......Isa 59:18 According to their deeds,
............accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries,
............recompense to his enemies; the islands he will repay recompense.

......Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west,
............and his glory from the rising of the sun.
............When the enemy shall come in like a flood,
............the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

......Gal. 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
......Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God?
............God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life,
............verily righteousness should have been by the law.

......Gal. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,
............that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

......Gal. 3:23 But before faith [the faith] came,
............we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

......Gal. 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,
............hat we might be justified by faith.
......Gal. 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

......WHAT? Gal. 3:26 FOR ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
......HOW? Gal. 3:27 FOR as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


......Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
............there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

......Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christs, then are ye Abrahams seed,
............and heirs according to the promise.

Because Abraham was not a Jew, there is NO distinction: Christ sent the first apostles to ALL NATIONS which included anyone who would hear. They were commanded to begin in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria and then to the uttermost parts of the world (Gentiles).

Paul denies that he preached a GOSPEL OF GRACE in contrast to a GOSPEL OF LAW. As I remember it Peter baptized the first gentiles.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Re: Maury Hills a Church of Christ and baptism

June 21 2010, 8:55 PM 

You are NOT a disciple if you trust those who "private interpret" meaning "further expounding" or who corrupt the Word meaning "selling learning at retail." The same word speaks of adultery.

The REPUDIATION of Christ's command which connects "remission of sins with baptism" is one of the end time marks which fits perfectly with the rise of MUSIC which was introduced in the Garden of Eden by Lucifer (Zoe) who was the "singing and harp playing prostitute" which is consistent with the end time Babylon mother of harlots (Rev 17) whose "ministers" are speakers, singers and instrument players: John calls them SORCERERS and so all musical terms define closing the rational or spiritual mind so the garbage will be accepted by those lulled to sleep (the Locust-Muse code) so they can be given the sting of death.

This fits most of the latest spawn of preachers trained to go out and betray godly people. Rebeling against authority is one of the MARKS of Christ prophey about the CHILDREN in Isaiah3.

Jesus used a word (translated in both Latin and Greek) which defines those who do not COMPLY with "he that believeth AND is baptized SHALL be saved" as in REVOLT or TREACHEROUS. They in effect tell Jesus Christ that HE has no power to save.

Remembering that both Jesus through His Apostles were carrying out the search for the TINY REMNANT still alive in Jerusalem who had not bowed to Baal. And that baptism was FOR or IN ORDER to the remission of sins where one's PERSONAL faith is like filthy rags: it is THE FAITH of Jesus Christ which contains the power in contrast to THE LAW which was imposed on those not fit for salvation because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers
rejected the counsel of God against themselves,
being not baptized of him.

The MARK of the MEN who could not or as VIPERS not fit to be baptized would be baptized with WIND and FIRE as the VIPER race. Jesus then MARKED them with the prophecy of Isaiah 3 where the men are marked by music as effeminate:

Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the MEN of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luke 7:32 They are like unto CHILDREN sitting in the marketplace
and calling one to another, and saying,
We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced;
we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept

The Latin for Mark 16:16 defines FAITH as TRUST and not simple believing a fact

Mark 16.[16] qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit salvus erit qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur

He that BELIEVETH complies with what is commanded.


A. Credo I. Orig. belonging to the lang. of business, to GIVE CREDIT. to give as a loan, to loan, lend, make or loan to any one: (vilicus) injussu domini credat nemini;
II. Transf. beyond the circle of business (very freq. in every period and species of composition).
A. With the prevailing idea of intended protection, to commit or consign something
to one for preservation, protection, etc., to intrust to one, = committo, commendo (cf. concredo)

4100. pisteuo, pist-yoo´-o; from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially ones spiritual well-being to Christ): believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
2. COMPLY, hs oukh hupeixn oude pisteusn legeis; S.OT625, cf. 646 ;

BELIEVETH NOT does not mean "just haven't decided." THE BELIEVETH NOTS refuse to comply or OBEY the direct connection between Baptism and Salvation or remission of sins which is a clear statement of Jesus in several places.


Soph. OT 625
Oedipus Hardly. I desire your death, not your exile, so that I might show what a thing envy is.
Creon [625] Are you resolved not to yield or believe? (Pisteo)
Oedipus No, for you persuade me that you are unworthy of trust.
Creon No, for I see you are not sane

He that believeth not in Mark 16 says that Jesus is not worthy of trust. The lowly people "justified God" by being baptized: the Pharisees rejected the command of God by NOT being baptized. They made a conscious decision not to trust the INSTRUMENTAL MEANS Jesus had commanded.

Xen. Sym. 8.36 We could all come to one mind, I think, on the point I am trying to make, if we were to consider the question in this way: of two lads, the objects of the different types of love,
which one would a person prefer to trust (Pisteo) with his money, or his children,
or to lay under the obligation of a favour?
My own belief is that even the person whose love is founded on the loved one's physical beauty would in all these cases rather put his trust (Pisteuo) in him whose loveliness is of the spirit.

Diod. 12.15 Now at first glance a man sees nothing wise or outstanding in this law, but when it is explored deeply it is found to be justly worthy of praise.
For if the reason is sought out why he entrusted (Pisteuo) the property of orphans
to one group and the rearing of them to another, the lawgiver is seen to have shown
an unusual kind of ingenuity

"Raw" faith really has no meaning. You might believe that a floating chunk of ice can support your weight and save your live: you have no FAITH in the way it is used to mean TRUST if you refuse to step on that which you "think" might save your life.

BELIEVETH is defined as the opposite of APISTOS or he that "believeth not."

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

Apistos To express doubt that it is possible.
I. Pass., not to be trusted, and so:
1. of persons and their acts, not trusty, faithless,
by untrustworthy, groundless confidence, Th.1.120; shifty, unreliable, Pl.Lg.775d.
II. Act., mistrustful, incredulous, suspicious, Od.14.150;
b. in NT, unbelieving, 1 Ep.Cor.6.6, a
2. disobedient, disloyal, S.Fr. 627: c. gen., A.Th.876; ekhein apiston . . anarkhian polei, i.e. anarkhian ekhein apeithousan t polei, ib.1035, cf. E.IT1476.
2. Act., distrustfully, suspiciously, Th.3.83; a. tina diatheinai D.20.22.
b. treacherously

Of the numerous examples of how the word is used:

Soph. Trach. 1228
No other man but you must ever marry
this woman who has lain with me in love;
no, you, my son, must take her for your own.
Consent! [Pietho listen to, obey)
To disrespect [Apisteo disobey]
me in small matters
destroys the greater favors you have done

he that believeth not shall be damned because that person has looked the free gift of spiritual life in the face and insulted the Grace of Jesus Christ--I think without redemption if they make a profession out of teaching the opposite of what the Bible and historic scholarship confirms.

Never trust your soul to one who is WAGED to sell you the FREE WATER OF THE WORD: Music as sorcery in the Revelation 18 often ment to slip you a "drug" while singing you a lovely song.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Did Christ in the prophets MARK instrumentalists as ANTI-Christian?

June 28 2010, 12:05 PM 

It is perfectly logical to MARK and AVOID those who understood that there is no role for "music" in the qahal, synagogue, ekklesia or synagogue because of a DIRECT COMMAND, universal history of the synagogue until 1815 and minimal common reverence when Christ comes to be our ONLY teacher when the elders "teach that which has been taught."

That's the way the devil always works: Jesus marked them as "speaking on their own." It would be reasonable for those building their Serf-like support team to lie as the postmodern views defends. However, these people were not required to be Bible readers or Christ-devoted to get "credentials" when Jesus warned that doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge: that is their predestinated role.

See Isaiah 50 which defines the PROPHESIERS whom Zechariah 13 says should be executed by their parents if the continue the MARKS after the SIGNS of Messiah and the apostles are completed.

Isaiah 55 which commands you NOT to support them or you are guilty.

And Isaiah 58 which OUTLAWS seeking your own pleasure or SPEAKING your own words.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Sep 13, 2010 7:48 PM

 Respond to this message   
< Previous Page 1 2 3 4 59 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Main Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others

FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter