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Smith Springs, David Lawrence Covenant Presbyterian Church

October 18 2008 at 10:13 PM
Reviewed  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
from IP address

CONTINUED from the archives at:

Smith Springs, Nashville (Part I)
Smith Springs, Nashville (Part II)


ConcernedMembers has received the following request and message from Nashvilleto which CM is responding accordingly:


Thanks for helping to get the warning about the Artios/Calvinists school in Nashville via the ConcernedMembers website. But is there some way for it to get its own web page so it will be more accessible to parents who need to be better informed? As it is now, you can get to it only through the Engedi Ministries Exposed! page. Can it be fixed so that it will automatically come up if someone simply types Artios Academy on Google, Yahoo, or a similar search engine? [Please note a couple of corrections] for clarity.

CM Responds: Heres the direct link to the Engedi Ministries Exposed! page; or by typing engedi ministries exposed on Google, the reader will be directed to this top link:

Source: Engedi Ministries Exposed!

Heres the direct link to the Artios Academy False Teachings Reviewed page; or by typing artios academy false teachings reviewed on Google, the reader will be directed to this top link:

Source: Artios Academy False Teachings Reviewed

[CM notes the following should state: (a) Danny Hale, CEO teacher for Engedi and Artios supporter; (b) We might note that Jesus quoted Isaiah and Ezekiel to identify performance speakers, singers and instrument players as hypocrites!]


[Re: Tim Alexander and Calvinism]

Also, could you please publish some type of rebuttal on [this] MORE CHURCHES/Smith Springs thread to Brother (?) Alexanders article from back in September?

CM: The article in reference was published in The Tennessean (Tuesday, September 25, 2007)Society must decide to hold all life as precious and to be protected. The entire article in may be obtained from the Voices & Views: Tennessee Voices and a search on: society must decide tim Alexander

In the article, Im quoting:

  • Ministers once used biblical texts to teach that natural inequality was divinely distributed.

    [Now, isnt that one of the basic tenets of Calvinism: God chose some, but not others? Isnt he criticizing the very thing he now advocates?]

  • We are not clean slates from screaming babes to philandering old men we are self-centered.

    [Isnt that just a reworded form of Total Depravity, of the 5 points of TULIP + original sin?]

  • Society must hold the value that life is ultimately precious.

    [Not so in Gods eyes, at least not for those hes ultimately condemned to Hell!]

  • [Whats missing? Is he ashamed to admit his affiliation with the Churches of Christ? I bet he isnt when he goes to get his church check cashed at the end of each month.]

My thanks to ConcernedMembers.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Apr 3, 2013 8:29 PM

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

This Former Pillar of the Church

October 18 2008, 10:41 PM 

(My grandson suggested I write you to see about getting this put on ConcernedMembers, Smith Springs section.)

    In your posting of this former pillar of the church there, Otis Charlton states, “And there arose another generation, which knew not the Lord! One generation served the Lord while the next did not. How swiftly things can change!” (page 10)

    One can’t help but wonder if Brother Charlton was referring to the pattern he was noticing of how his peer group of seasoned elders at Smith Springs was methodically leaving the ranks in rapid succession, usually to move to another congregation.

    Isn’t it true that there’s not a single elder left who is within 25—maybe even 30 years—of Bro. Otis’ age?

    Do you know of any other mature congregation out there that doesn’t have a single elder in their mid-60s? Name one!

    How does a church lose an entire generation of leadership and experience unless something is seriously amiss? This is just one more critical red flag.

    Oh, for the days of Brother Hollins’, Whorley’, Beeson’ and Otis’ oversight.

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mountain out of molehill?

October 20 2008, 8:53 PM 

you guys may be just stirring up something that's much ado about nothing.
according to a disenchanted engedi insider / mole the bulk of engetti's meager membership consists of 3 main groups:
1. innediate family of the bro. hale w/ a few of his close friends.
2. former employees of bro. hale and their extended families.
3. divorced / remarried folks who are afraid there's not another c of c out there who'd except them, especially as a deacon / church leader.

and he/she says they're not selling anything new, just rehashed jon calvin stuff - well maybe new to some unsuspecting c of c'ers - but strictly stale old tradition to most presbyterians.

don't overrate your foe.

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wake up jl

November 26 2008, 11:33 AM 

You had a writer a few weeks ago (J.L.) suggesting that since none of the elders are in any official position with engedi that this matter should just be dropped. Well just because one is not in some official position is like putting a liquor bottle in a brown paper bag and hoping no one will notice. It's a sham.

Really jl, you can't be serious. Name just one other congregation in our brotherhood that keeps the chief spokesman (D.Law.) and the chief administrator (C.Con.) of some calvinistic ministry as members in good standing. And your preacher even admits that he's bought into their system; isn't that one of the main reasons he got the position over more qualified applicants?
But here's where it really gets telling. Ask your elder Hale just how many of the current deacons have been financial supporters of engedi over the years. Then ask how much $$ Lawrence and Conway have received from engedi on average for the past 5 years. Last, just ask him how much of an annual tax write-off he personally gets from this church-of-christ-bashing organization.

If you find yourself too intimidated or too afraid to ask such direct clarifying questions of one of your own shepherds then it must mean that their alleged prefect grace, unlike perfect love,
does NOT cast out fear.

J.L., you might be able to see a little clearer if you'd just take off those blinders.

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history 101 questions

December 3 2008, 4:51 PM 

It's been 500+ years since Europe first began climbing out from under the cloak of bondage of catholicism. Yet we're to believe that we don't have
any clearer understanding of God today than then, even though God's allegedly been directing every man's every action? We're just to spend the rest of time on this earth recycling those old puritanical creeds and

My brother has to do consultant work with a few European countries from
time to time. Bleak and Barren is how he describes the state of reformed
religion in most of those countries today. But no one's really surprised that the inevitable result of absolute predestination is apathy. Why fight
things that God's already determined? What's the real point? And just look how the Puritan's beliefs ran it's cycle in this country, too.
(Examine the fruit closely, brethren.)

Let's move on and acknowledge that Lawrence's humanistic label is not accurate for those who simply believe that John 3:16,17 means what it says. Enough of the religious double speak that's designed to try to salvage Calvin's well intentioned, but shallow, dogma. Let's grow.

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(no login)


December 30 2008, 2:41 PM 

We have an elderly man at our church who spent the first season of his life in a denomination which taught what the smith springs reformers are now teaching.
He says he just got tired of trying to ignore, or explain away, the multitude of clear passages which contradict the section of the creed which claims that Jesus' sacrifice isn't available or accessible to all men (i.e. limited atonement.).
As his faith has grown from what he now calls his 'former juvenile understanding', he now celebrates God's love and concern for mankind.
Last week, during a Christmas service, he asked me to read all of the words at Jesus' arrival, as we read in Luke 2:10, but especially the word ALL (as
he also pointed out in John 1:7).
His prayer is that the dark veil will soon be lifted from all who would attempt to contradict clear biblical teaching, by making God a respector of persons. May the next year bring renewed fervor to reveal ALL of TRUTH.

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buffalo gal
(no login)


December 31 2008, 9:55 AM 

how could you have left out the most incriminating passage, s.a.r.?
it's first timothy 2:2-4.

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former member
(no login)

Re: omission

January 2 2009, 10:28 PM 

Amen, Buffalo Gal. For all...

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Re: omission

January 14 2009, 4:16 PM 

The winds of change they are a blowing...
the monster is being caged.

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rob. calvester
(no login)


February 10 2009, 9:40 PM 

2 very ironic things seem to have happened.
For years Engedi's calvinists have been erroneously advancing their 5 point plan as being deep. How ironic that the preacher of their preference wasn't even a Bible major at Harding, and now his sole Bible degree is from a university (Vanderbilt) where the majority of the Bible faculty don't even believe in the absolute inspiration of the scriptures! How is that in any way deep? Their theories are different, but not deep, once you realize that they are just the old tired misleading dogma, or as the calvinist- Baptist phrase it, "Primitive". Indeed!

Irony #2 that is emerging relates to pastor Tim's current campaign to call attention to child abuse in the church. This is the very reason many removed their teens (and their families) from that assembly!
Many considered the clandestine classes that Jason Charlton had with teens in his home to be a type of spiritual abuse, or at least a gross misuse of power. Bro. Jason even had the audacity to ask the eldership to help pay for courses that he took at some on-line calvinist college. After he was denied the aid he proceeded to take the courses anyway and would use the outlines of those courses to help serve as the topics & outlines of some classes that he would teach to select teens in his home. Even some men, who are still in leadership positions, refused to allow their own teens to attend those classes, as well as many of the classes that Lawrence taught. What does that tell you?

And if J.L. still questions the close affiliation with your church and Engedi, just go on the Sm.Sp. web
sight and you'll notice only ONE current entry under "Links." Yes, it's Engedi (at least until they read this and correct it!). And check out the "Links" page on Engedi and you'll notice that nearly ALL are to similiar calvinists-based sites. Don't dare to look for "21st Century Christian" or "ACU" or anything related to our fellowship. It's simply horribly unbalanced, j.l.

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Ken Sublett
(no login)


February 11 2009, 1:31 PM 

What do you know about the rumblings over there?

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Re: Vultee

February 19 2009, 4:04 PM 

Which do with Smith Springs???????

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Just a rabble-rouser

February 20 2009, 8:15 AM 

Ken is just trying to stir up more division with his deceptive confusions

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Re: irony

February 20 2009, 11:24 AM 

THIS JUST IN.............


There is recently uncovered evidence that dispite the widely held belief the Apostle Paul did in fact not graduate from Freed Hardiman University. There is also increasing speculation that he also did not preach from the King James Version............More tonight at 10............

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Another irony

February 20 2009, 12:24 PM 

THIS JUST IN.............


There is recently uncovered evidence that Annie Mouse is withholding very significant information from us.

Annie, what do you know about the rumblings over there?

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Annie Mouse
(no login)

Re: Another irony

February 20 2009, 1:27 PM 

Maybe someone could look up Vultee and see who is preacher person.

I have heard that he is stirring some people.

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(no login)

Moderator or not?

February 20 2009, 1:43 PM 


Are you speaking as the objective moderator, or have you shed that role for this post?

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Moderator or not?

February 20 2009, 3:52 PM 

An excellent two-role question!!!

  • The "objective moderator" by approving certain posts that would normally be redirected to the "Viper's Den"?

  • Posting? "The half has never yet been told." [Just wait patiently.]

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(no login)


February 20 2009, 7:31 PM 

I was surprised to learn some time ago that David Gaylor was the preacher at Vultee: I wondered whether his old Calvinism had been purged or whether Vultee is sympathetic.

I asked because of a question I received about who was trying to alert them: I know David Gaylor's name has been raised many times by the ex Smithers and I don't know anything about his views or about Vultee. David Lawrence's name was also brought up and I pointed him to my review's of David Lawrence's confusing over Calvinism and everything the Church of Christ believes. Otherwise, I have not contacted Vultee.

If no one knows anything then forget it: I still reserve the right to ask questions.

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(no login)


February 20 2009, 9:05 PM 

"The "objective moderator" by approving certain posts that would normally be redirected to the "Viper's Den"? "

I guess that is why Ken's posts keep ending up here instead of there. happy.gif

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