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Anonymous
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

things haven't really changed...

June 3 2011, 6:05 PM 

Anonymous 98.87.23.169
Subject: "things haven't really changed..." June 3 2011, 5:49 AM

...if Danny Hale is leading the flock in the interim. Their website has new audio lessons by Danny Hale that I am guessing are from the pulpit. If Mr. Hale has anything to say about it, Smith Springs will again find a minister of the TULIP belief.

=========================

Re-posted: latest as of this date
ConcernedMembers

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.73.242

Re: things haven't really changed...

May 22 2012, 8:02 PM 

Any changes or improvements?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.165.40

Re: things haven't really changed...

February 22 2013, 8:06 PM 

I received the package today: thanks. I have downloaded David Lawrence's perspective and will post my review. I may pick specificially on the idea that ELECTION means from all eternity to either heave or hell, and Instrumental Music which his scholarship has not prepared to refute. That's the problem with studying dogma rather than the Scriptures.

We have covered David Lawrence shallow understanding as to why there is no historic scholarship to back him up.

I will post my review in part here and also to the wider audience. God is not kind to people who cannot defend the hard working people who fed his face.

For true historians it is important that we leave a record for future generations.

I will rename this thread or I can begin another.

Thanks, Ken Sublett knthsublett@gmail.com

I hope that Smith Springs can recover from a very bad attack.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.165.40 on Feb 22, 2013 8:08 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.165.40

David Lawrence Perspectives. Quick look

February 22 2013, 10:28 PM 

http://www.piney.com/Perspectives.by.David.Lawrence.html

Here is how some of the Lipscomb students REALLY understood what was happening.

I will admit to being one of the people who got drawn into this neo-calvinist camp for a while thanks primarily to the influence of leaders and members at this congregation. They even helped influence one of my best friends to go on to a reformed seminary so he could understand this all better. I've heard they're still doing this today with some select college students. Calvinism, at least their new version, as clarified by R.C. Sproul (a modern author and lecturer who the Engedi leaders all hold in high regard) seemed to offer some pretty simple answers to some very complex questions, early on. But for every leak it seemed to patch a couple of new ones would start somewhere else. My biggest problems were their inconsistent word games with Bible concepts like chosen and dead in sin. It got even more complicated the deeper I got as I started to realize that my own pride factor would make it hard to admit that I, and some smart men I knew, could be mistaken.

When I raised some serious questions I would be told that I just needed to give it some time since these were such new ideas to me and so deep. They actually told me that 'you just have to give it some time.' I couldn't help but think of another time I'd heard that phrase: During my first weekend visit to my first college men's dorm I was stunned by the aroma. You know the mildewed towels, the sneaker odor, the gym clothes, etc. I asked my host how he stood it. His answer? 'You jut have to give it some time!'

Here's what I saw, and still see, in some of my friends /students who are still deep in this: when all you surround yourself with is this teaching - it's all you read, study, listen to, breathe, talk about, it's the only people you associate with - you just get to the saturation point where you don't even notice the haze in the room anymore; it becomes WHO you are. And it is really appealing to young people because it's advertised as NEW and DEEP. I finally realized that it is only deep like quicksand is deep.

One author expresses it this way: "The problem as I see it now is that I had gained my identity through an association with a particular historical tradition. I think it would have been appropriate to accuse me of being a Calvinist first and a Christian second. I never would have admitted it, but the fact is that this was true."

I beg those of you who may have doubts about this, open a window, open a door, open books from other deep theologians with the other viewpoint, for God's sake open all of God's Word! This new improved reformed stuff makes God much more like some cosmic czar from Greek mythology [fatalism] than what is revealed in the Bible. It goes right against the grain of the parable God's own son used to enlighten us about the true nature of his Father regarding a prodigal son: a God who is genuine enough to allow creatures, created in his image, to respond to him out of unmanipulated love (agape); and it is a misrepresentation to label this as some type of 'legalistic work'.

So here's my personal experience: this teaching is NOT an oasis of water; it is some sort of post-modern MIRAGE.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.175.1 on Feb 25, 2013 8:44 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.175.1

Re: David Lawrence Perspectives. Quick look

February 25 2013, 8:48 PM 

From my associaton with a couple of Lipscomb students from Smith Springs, I had the chance, a few years back, to attend one of Engedi's off campus Bible studies (it was held in the home of one of the Eng. leaders.) After about 30 minutes it almost felt like I was watching a high school play - you know where everyone has memorized their lines they've been given beforehand, and they try so hard to make it sound unrehearsed. It became clear that of the dozen or so students there, that I was the only one who didn't know the words to the club song or the motto.

As long as everyone stayed with the expected verses & line everything went smoothly. It seemed so loical at first. "You do believe God is all powerful and all knowing, don't you?" (Well yes) "Then it only follows, doesn't it, that God already knows who will be in heaven eternally, so how could He NOT use his Sovereign (a favorite word of theirs) power to make sure that all the one's he's chosen will make it? You do know that nothing God plans can be thwared (another favorite word)- it tells us that in the Bible." The session almost had the pressure feeling of one of those time-share, condo sales pitches, and I really believe an observation that has already been made is true about Engedi: "most of the Calvinistic teaching are delivered in small doses so it is not possible to get a coherent picture."

My own Bible study lead me to see some real problems with of of their first major points - total depravity (Mr. Lawrence refers to 'depravity' often in his Short Studies Textual Studies, on their engedi.org web page; see Genesis, Romans, & John). Am I honestly supposed to believe that the Bereans, mentioned in Acts 17:11, were more noble because God had irrestibly chosen for this depraved group to understand, and want to study the Scriptures, but God chose, conversely, for the Thessalonicans to NOT have a desire to know the Truth? It just seemed to me that this line of logic is closer to ancient Mayan's in Mexico who had god's that demanded regular human sacrifieces to appease their desire for justice!

Another verse they mentioned was from Ezekiel. This very verse is the topic of www.engedi.org/04.07.03.html. Mr. Lawrence says Ezek. 14:9-11 is a major problem for those of us who belive that God has nothing to do with the "bad" things of life. What these guys have obviously chosen to stay blinded to is their major problem this raises: If God causes come of the 'bad' things, and God cause everthing (as they boldly teach), then God causes, always had, caused ALL 'bad' things, too. And I don't care how slick one gets with that politician double talk, or how divine & wise the medieval renaissance men chose to label themselves (see 'Divine Men's Club', in this forum), or how lofty, eloquent, verbose (and confusing) you get with the King's English (and his political aspirations), or how hard you scourge your own back with a leather strap while you chant 'God is not the author of sin' -- if you just shove their creedal theories into reverse and follow their logic back as far as you can go, you finally see where their teaching says that sin originated. (P.S. it wasn't Satan.) No wonder R. C. Sproul calls this their 'excruciating problem'. Since they teach that the will of man or angels only moves when given the desire by God, then the only way Lucifer & Adam (before the fall) could have sinned was for God to have given them that desire!

Welcome to the new 'joy and assurance'; be sure you read the fine print before you but!

OF COURSE Calvinists ALWAYS ignore the context: perhaps they are predestinated?.

And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Ezek 14:2

Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them? Ezek 14:3

Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God;
.....Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart,
.....and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face,
.....and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him that cometh
.....according to the multitude of his idols; Ezek 14:4

That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart,
.....because they are all estranged from me through THEIR idols. Ezek 14:5

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God;
.....Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;
.....and turn away your faces from all your abominations. Ezek 14:6

Ezek 14:7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel,
.....which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart,
.....and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face,
.....and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me;
.....I the Lord will answer him by myself:

Ezek 14:8 And I will set my face against that man,
.....and will make him a sign and a proverb,
.....and I will cut him off from the midst of my people;
.....and ye shall know that I am the Lord.


When you tamper with the Word God sends STRONG DELUSIONS so that you believe your own lies. The MARK is Lying Wonders which are religious services with speakers, singers, instrument players and actors known as hypocrites.

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing,
.....I the Lord have deceived that prophet,
.....and I will stretch out my hand upon him,
.....and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. Ezek 14:9

And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity:
.....the punishment of the prophet shall be even
.....as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him; Ezek 14:10
Ezekiel 14:11 That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me,
.....neither be polluted any more with all their transgressions;
.....but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 14:12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
Ezekiel 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously,
.....then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof,
.....and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:


So,since David Lawrence SPEAKS ON HIS OWN he will be assisted by God. The Spirit OF Christ says that the PCA lie TO God and ABOUT God.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.175.1 on Feb 25, 2013 9:05 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.170.113

David Lawrence and Covenant Presbyterian Church Nashville

February 27 2013, 5:03 PM 

David Lawrence is proud to boast of what he believes to be a successful victory.

There were four major theaters of operation for me for the next nearly twenty years:
Smith Springs, Lipscomb, Engedi Ministries, and Covenant Presbyterian Church.
Although action was moving forth on all these fronts simultaneously, for the help of the reader, I shall discuss them separately. Only one remains today.

http://www.piney.com/Covenant.Presbyterian.Church.Nashville.html


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.170.113

David Lawrence and Covenant Presbyterian Church Nashville

February 27 2013, 5:03 PM 

David Lawrence is proud to boast of what he believes to be a successful victory.

There were four major theaters of operation for me for the next nearly twenty years:
Smith Springs, Lipscomb, Engedi Ministries, and Covenant Presbyterian Church.
Although action was moving forth on all these fronts simultaneously, for the help of the reader, I shall discuss them separately. Only one remains today.

http://www.piney.com/Covenant.Presbyterian.Church.Nashville.html


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.163.243

Re: David Lawrence and Covenant Presbyterian Church Nashville

March 15 2013, 12:10 PM 

I got your mail and understand: I will add these comments.

I suspect that David Lawrence had some friends at Lipscomb: they seem to be pretty lost in Space.

John Mark Hicks is a guiding light at Woodmont FAMILY of God. They are hiring a rabbi to come in and conduct the PASSOVER using lots of foods and mumbo-jumbo.

Of course, the Passover was more of a DISCIPLINE for people who FORGOT the original Passover and fell into musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. Doing "Passover" outside of the QUARANTINE at Jerusalem was violating the Law and an abomination.

http://www.piney.com/Woodmont.Hills.church.of.Christ.and.Jewish.Passover.html

Comments welcomed.



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.163.223

Re: David Lawrence and Covenant Presbyterian Church Nashville

April 3 2013, 8:27 PM 

Please note that I have a thread for Covenant Presbyterian Church.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/187120/thread/1361640708/last-1361846073/Covenant+Presbyterian+Church%2C+Nashville-+David+Lawrence+Perspectives

You can comment without using your name. Got your letter.

 
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William
(no login)
108.28.129.152

A true hypocrite

April 6 2013, 11:52 PM 


From Wikipedia, regarding the etymology, "hypocrite" means "jealous", "play-acting", "acting out", "coward" or "dissembling". Surely none have ever been more prototypical than David Lawrence.

 
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