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David Young: John defines trinitarians as Antichrists

July 4 2010 at 10:52 PM
Ken Sublett  (no login)
from IP address

Unless David Young gives you a free farm or orchard YOU do not have to give the church a widow's mite. First fruits are not a tenth but the first cluster off the vines David gave you: you take the FIRST fruits to David and he eats it in the church house and gets nothing for a whole year.

Tithes also were to feed the tribe of Levi whom God commanded to keep their abandonment to Babylonianism inside the gates and eat food only while on rotating duty so that he never leaves the "church house." Paul said that there is no command to give to anyone.

David Young as Preaching Minister claims authority.

Joe Shulam is supported by churches of Christ but his writings indicated that he is still an unconverted Jew. This modern thrust pretends that Jewish Identity, Jewish Roots or Hebraic Roots or Messianic Jews is Model for the Church of Christ.

Much of the "spirit" out of Nashville these days speaks of CALVINISM OR PREDESTIANTIKON and a view of God as a triad of three, real persons each with their own centers of consciousness. Experiencing God is one of the major stalking horses to get people to see their "leaders" (joke, joke) as being supernaturally led JUST LIKE Moses and Jesus were for their time. Your hearing voicies will never be strong enough to trump the voices of the leaders:

Henry T. Blackaby and Claude V. King obviously have never read much Scripture in context. If they got theirs by some source other than the Word this is the MARK of false teachers.

I have updated this and it is a little bit clearer.

Henry T. Blackaby and Claude V. King Experiencing God

I am trying to combine several quick responses.


Sorry about the tentative look at this. When I first heard of this which fits with the Spiritual Formation going on at places like LU it sounded like Blackaby like most does not have any knowledgeor respect of the context of what he lifts out of context--a preachers role for money and fame.

I finally looked at the book I was using as a mousepad and lo! There was Blackaby suddenly resting on my desk. Please don't let people get into this cult-like folly like the Purpose Driven Cult.

More than a decade ago David Young came lurching in with his "still-bleeding sheep skin" and one of the few sermons I remember he was boasting that he had convinced another preacher never to preach against instrumental music again. No doubt, you can still get degrees without knowing much about the Bible and universal history. Nor, for that matter, WHAT MEANS "a church, ekklesia or synagogue."

I am quite certain--it fits the patternism--that David prepared the "white paper" about needed changes with only slanted hints. The mantra is to denounce whatever we view as based on traditionalism or our heritage. Not using instruments in the school of the Bible, for instance, is a vile virus more terminal than HIV that you caught from what you thought were your godly ancestors for a recorded 2,000 years.

More than a decade ago David Young came lurching in with his "still-bleeding sheep skin" and one of the few sermons I remember he was boasting that he had convinced another preacher never to preach against instrumental music again. No doubt, you can still get degrees without knowing much about the Bible and universal history. Nor, for that matter, WHAT MEANS "a church, ekklesia or synagogue."

I am quite certain--it fits the patternism--that David prepared the "white paper" about needed changes with only slanted hints. The mantra is to denounce whatever we view as based on traditionalism or our heritage. Not using instruments in the school of the Bible, for instance, is a vile virus more terminal than HIV that you caught from what you thought were your godly ancestors for a recorded 2,000 years.

Here is the beginning of my review which I will edit in time:

North Boulevard Church of Christ, Murfreesboro, TN: David Young Paper lurching toward Babylon. Jesus promised that He will be OUTSIDE the massed multitude suffering reproaches. Jesus said that the Father HIDES Himslf from the WISE.

X.Mem.1.6.13 Xen. Mem. 1.6.13
To this Socrates replied: Antiphon, it is common opinion among us
in regard to beauty and wisdom
that there is an honourable a
nd a shameful way of bestowing them.
For to offer one's beauty for money to all comers is called prostitution;
but we think it virtuous to become friendly with
a lover who is known to be a man of honour.

So is it with wisdom. Those who offer it to all comers for money
are known as sophists, prostitutors of wisdom,
but we think that he who makes a friend of one whom he knows to be gifted
by nature, and teaches him all the good he can,
fulfils the duty of a citizen and a gentleman.

Sophis-ts , ou, o(, A. master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets, meletan sophistais prosbalon Pi.I.5(4).28, cf. Cratin.2; of musicians, sophists . . parapain khelun (harp-player) A.Fr.314, cf. Eup.447, Pl.Com. 140; sophist Thrki (sc. Thamyris) E.Rh.924, cf. Ath.14.632c: with modal words added, hoi s. tn hiern meln [melody in the holy place--a death sentence for any Levite]

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Feb 4, 2016 10:07 AM

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Re: North Boulevard Church of Christ, Murfreesboro, TN

July 16 2010, 4:25 PM 

David Young was our last Pastor and he started Overland Park Church of Christ on the road to contemplative. He attended a retreat with Richard Foster and brought it back to our church. He's since moved on, but the seed he sowed is devastating our church.

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Ken Sublett
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The mark of the Beast!

July 28 2010, 8:31 PM 

The Musical Worship Team which suddenly appeared and separated congregations of many Bible-based groups CLAIMS to be able to "lead you into the presence of God." They stand in the holy place (of church architecture) which is off limits to the masses. Because Jesus Christ is the only Mediator/Intercessor, they in fact claim to be God standing in the holy place. The Locusts John used as a code word is well docmented as the musical worship team of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon). Their task is to SEPARATE people based on their MARK. They may drive them out of their own churches but they are not permitted to harm the godly.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Sep 13, 2010 6:55 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Amos, Jeremiah and Revelation warns of the BEASTS.

August 1 2010, 9:54 PM 

Tyre as the personification of Lucifer along with the king/queen of Babylon went through the same testing:

Is. 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day,
......that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years,
......according to the days of one king:
......after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.

Which begins:

Is. 23:16 Take an harp, go about the city,
......thou harlot that hast been forgotten;
......make sweet melody,
......sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

Is. 23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years,
......that the LORD will visit Tyre,
......and she shall turn to her hire,
......and shall commit fornication
......with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

Amos 8 and Revelation 17 tell the same story:

THUS hath the Lord God shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit. Amos 8:1

And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said,
......A basket of summer fruit.
......Then said the Lord unto me,
......The end is come upon my people of Israel;
......I will not again pass by them any more. Amos 8:2


Keluwb (h3619) kel-oob'; from the same as 3611; a bird-trap (as furnished with a clap-stick or treadle to spring it); hence a basket (as resembling a wicker cage): - basket, cage.

As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. Je.5:27

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

......For dogs have compassed me:
...... ......the assembly [multitude, swarm]
...... ......of the wicked have inclosed me:
...... ......they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16

Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough,
......and they are shepherds that cannot understand:
......they all look to their own way, every one for his gain,
......from his quarter. Is.56:11

And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord:
......the sword to slay,
......and the dogs to tear,
......and the fowls of the heaven,
......and the beasts of the earth,
...... devour and destroy. Je.15:3

Beast, the Wolves or pederasts Paul warns about or a term of reproach of the "new wineskin worship." Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace because of their vile practices:

"Bacchis, it is, because I dread you Bacchantes, and your Bacchanalian den5."

Note:Your Bacchanalian den: "Bacchanal" was properly the place where the Bacchanalia,
or orgies, were celebrated. He styles them "Bacchantes," and their house a "Bacchanal,"
in allusion both to their names and their habits.

Aristophanes Archarnians
Peace, profane men! Let the basket-bearer come forward, and thou Xanthias, hold the phallus well upright.

The maiden who carried the basket filled with fruits at the Dionysia in honour of Bacchus.
kanêphoros [pherô] carrying a basket:-- Kanêphoroi, hai, Basket-bearers, at Athens, maidens who carried on their heads baskets containing the sacred things used at the feasts of Demeter, Bacchus and Athena, Ar.

The emblem of the fecundity of nature; it consisted of a representation, generally grotesquely exaggerated, of the male genital organs; the phallophori crowned with violets and ivy and their faces shaded with green foliage, sang improvised airs, call `Phallics,' full of obscenity and suggestive `double entendres.'

Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day,
saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place;
they shall cast them forth with silence.

These would be called the "new style praise songs" which is a clear definition of the role of the BEAST.

[linked image]

Amos 8:4 Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy,
even to make the poor of the land to fail,

After the Jews returned from captivity the temple was virtually abandoned and the synagogue ordained for the spiritual people remained as the only place of assembly for the Godly. They RESTED, read and rehearsed the Word.

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A LYING WONDER is anything beyond being A School of the Word

August 2 2010, 11:48 AM 

Before it was possible to become a Christian one had to know that it means to become a DISCIPLE.
Beginning as the Church in the wilderness and never changed, endorsed by Jesus, commanded wiith the word ekklesia, commanded and exampled by Paul and practiced by the historic Church of Christ for several centuries, church was A SCHOOL (only) OF THE WORD OF CHRIST (only). That is defined as the prophecies by Christ in Spirit and the prophecies made more certain by Jesus of Nazareth Wom God the Father made to be both Lord and Christ. As a human image of God, He fulfilleld all of the prophecies related to Him.

The Campbells used the universal meing of:

Church is A School of Christ
Worship is reading and musing the Word of Christ.

The Church of Christ has only this one, unique role to play.

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words;
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read,
ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given,
that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places
might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,



This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Sep 13, 2010 6:58 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Genesis 4 the latest sermon

August 8 2010, 10:59 PM 

I have posted some TRUTH about Genesis 4 which defines the BEGINNING OF MUSICAL IDOLATRY. That is why God wanted the Cainites (Canaanites) exterminated because they were truly the seed of the serpent or OF THAT WICKED ONE.

Cain was angry because God refused to accept what scholars understand to be the FERTILITY RITUALS marked by emotional speaking, singing, playing instruments and all of the histrionics. They were the RACE OF VIPERS or Crooked Race we are to save ourselves from.

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Ken Sublett
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Easter and Bosheth Part E

April 24 2014, 7:07 PM 

People who find themselves in a failure mode because they have replaced TEACHING the Word to the youth with fun in games, in the words of Joseph Campbell, CRACK AWAY to the Archaic. Paul called it strong delusions when the only Bible is a sermon is twisted.

Easter and Christmas celebration is fore the ONCERS or TWICERS and no matter how much you bring Jesus into shame, they won't become dues paying members.

The Jews rarely celebrated Passover and when they did they, like Jesus and the Apostles, had the LAMB KILLED and roasted. The prophets repudiate the Jews celebration of EASTER. Esther when in captivity refused to celebrate the Babylon "get drunk on wine" feast but it was adopted as the Jews Passover which Jesus repudiates. He instituted the Lord's Supper in the Feast of Unleavened bread which followed Passover. The COMMAND as the way to SHOW FORTH the death of Jesus was NOT the Jewish Passover NOR the Babylonian Worship of Ishtar which is to SHAME Jesus.

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Augustine Creed and Doctrine

August 14 2010, 3:48 PM 

The links to the comments in pictures below:

With the rise of a neo-trinity--for which there is no historical support--came the belief that a real person called "The Holy Spirit" lived inside of their literal body. This denies that Jesus of Nazareth was God's image of FULL DEITY bodily made known: those who den this, says John, are Anti-Christ.

With this rise we have had men say that they had a VISION which told him to take "Christ" off the sign and add instrumental music. Sow discord? Sure, but they will get over it or get out and we will replace them by "saving more souls." Another had a "spirit" tell him that the curse of the sacrificial system was the SPIRIT telling him that "God commanded instrumental praise and we are not going to be disobedient." Others hear AUDIBLE voices. Others go into mind altering "spiritual formation" and naturally believe that whatever pops up in their vain imagination is that spirit "person" (people) speaking to them. In all paganism the same mind-altering went on and they recognized it as MADNESS and the voices their herd were DEMONS.

Those who began to define the Godhead as OPPOSITE to the three person (gods) of all pagans, did not include the Spirit OF Christ or the Spirit OF God as a separated being. Augustine who wrote the most warned against making dogma out of the concept. He quotes some of the views at that time.

I will expand later on the COMMUNICATION of the Holy Spirit. Jesus spoke the WORDS of God because He had the Spirit of God WITHOUT METER (so metron can be read). This fits the pattern that SPEAK is the opposite of poetry (meter) music. Speak as in rhetoric would define a hypocrite.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

If the preachers or musicians speak FOR the Spirit in the morning, Scripture and all recorded evidence proves that they are being led by a lying spirit or The spirit OF lying which is NOT another person.

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Ken Sublett
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John Mark Hicks

August 25 2010, 3:25 PM 

I listened to one of his sermons for last Sunday: he spoke mostly about himself and kept saying he didn't want to be a preacher. I may send him an e-mail and tell him he succeeded. I think he did get around to mentioning his proof text.

John Mark is a radically false teacher. I have reviewed several of his articles. He says I don't understand but I understand that Jesus said that doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge. Theologians have their own system of logic which would be accepted only by other theologians.

He is in love with rapprochement (fellowship) between scholars of the Church of Christ and Baptists who are about to meet in the middle. He affirms that he agrees with the Calvinistic view of baptism. Which is NOT similar to the Bible or the Church of Christ views.

Baptismal Rapprochement Between Southern Baptists and Churches of Christ?

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Ken Sublett
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Small Groups and Witchcraft?

September 16 2010, 1:32 PM 

Our Small Groups are launching a new series on September
19. This will include a Friday night movie which will establish the
platform for group discussion.
The first movie is The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe on
September 17 at 7 pm in the Filling Station.

History shows that Small Group is the ideal way to divide and conquor.

It comes as no surprise that the NEW WINESKINS is a perfect fulfilmet of the Abomination of Desolatin involving Dionysus or Bacchus as the leader of perverted, musical idolatry in Herod's Temple. These are the MEN performing like children in the marketplace: they pipe hoping to cause you to sing or lament and dance. Thus Bacchus music was to hide the howls of homosexual initiation. There are serious questions about C.S. Lewis.

The paganism of Narnia By Peter T. Chattaway

"THE CHRONICLES of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe comes to movie theatres December 9, and when it does, many Christians will be watching it eagerly to see if director Andrew Adamson (or "son of Adam!") has respected the story's Christian elements.

Some of us, however, will be watching just as closely to see if the film has preserved those bits in C.S. Lewis's book that are a little more, shall we say, pagan. Presumably, the centaurs and fauns will look more or less like the mythological creatures depicted in ancient Greco-Roman art. But will, say, Mr Tumnus regale Lucy (Lucfer, Zoe) with stories of how the Roman god Bacchus filled the streams with wine when he feasted with the forest people?

Many Christians, including those who hope to use this film as an evangelistic tool, tend to excuse the pagan elements in Lewis's books as just so much window dressing; as far as they are concerned, all that stuff is the fairy-tale bait he had to set to lure unbelievers into his Christian world. But there is much more to Lewis's use of pagan myth than that.

Lewis even seems to flirt with something like astrology. In more than one book, Narnian centaurs look for signs in the stars. In Dawn Treader, Eustace meets a man who is a "retired" star, and says, "In our world, a star is a huge ball of flaming gas." The star replies, "Even in your world, my son, that is not what a star is but only what it is made of."

Scenes like these might have been shocking to the early Christians, who saw themselves in direct competition with paganism, and sometimes condemned the gods as demons in disguise. Lewis, however, stood this idea on its head, imagining in his 'Space Trilogy' that the gods were distant echoes of heavenly angels who oversaw the planets.

To be sure, Lewis "baptized" these pagan elements, by situating them in a context where Aslan, the Christ-like creator of Narnia, is firmly in control. When the dance with the maenads comes to an end, Susan says, "I wouldn't have felt very safe with Bacchus and all his wild girls if we'd met them without Aslan." Lucy replies, "I should think not.But Narnia is also liberated with help from Bacchus and his drinking buddy Silenus, figures from Greco-Roman myth who were associated with drunken, mystical celebrations in the forest called "bacchanals". Bacchus and Aslan even dance together, along with Lucy, Susan, the nymphs and the maenads. And as they pass through Narnia, they destroy a boys' school and a girls' school where the children are taught a politically approved form of "history."

[linked image]

A nymph in Greek mythology is a minor nature goddess typically associated with a particular location or landform. Other nymphs, always in the shape of young nubile maidens, were part of the retinue of a god, such as Dionysus, Hermes, or Pan, or a goddess, generally Artemis.[1] Nymphs were the frequent target of satyrs. They live in mountains and groves, by springs and rivers, also in trees and in valleys and cool grottoes. They are frequently associated with the superior divinities: the huntress Artemis; the prophetic Apollo; the reveller and god of wine, Dionysus; and rustic gods such as Pan and Hermes.

The term "Nymphomania" was created by modern psychology as referring to a "desire to engage in human sexual behavior at a level high enough to be considered clinically significant", "Nymphomaniac" being the person suffering from such a disorder


And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Nympha a bride, mistress, goddess, the Muses

I let my business wait upon their sport.
So they began to sing, voice answering voice
in strains alternate--for alternate strains
the Muses then were minded to recall--
first Corydon, then Thyrsis in reply.

Libethrian Nymphs, who are my heart's delight,
grant me, as doth my Codrus, so to sing--
next to Apollo he--or if to this
we may not all attain, my tuneful pipe
here on this sacred pine shall silent hang.

Ask your leaders WHY?

Aslan The Lion of the Tribe of Judah?

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Ken Sublett
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More New Wineskin Info

September 17 2010, 10:25 PM 

Zeus and Dionysus (Bacchus) was the Abomination of Desolation in the temple in Jerusalem. In one form or another this was the Sabazianism to which God abandoned Israel because of musical idolatry. Is Bacchus really the patternism of the saviour? Dionysus was the "meat eaters and wine drinkers" in the marketplace in Romans 14. They were so vile that the Roman had long ago limited the size of the assembly and insisted that "what the did in the dark" now be done in the light of day. Dionysus is the old but new wineskin god. This is also the persona connected with women or wannabes:

The best remembered mystery is that of Bacchus or Dionysus, also called Zagreus, Sabazius (the Jews), Adonis, Antheus, Zalmoxis, Pentheus, Pan (the beast), Liber Pater, or the Liberator (James 198). The Dionysian mysteries were reserved almost wholly for women, as the physical manifestations of the Maenads (Lyttleton and Foreman 115).

An idea common in Shamanism for instance. Originally, the followers of Dionysus were women only. The Bacchae or Maenads, were, and are, the female devotees of Dionysus. The word bakkhos (masculine) or bakkh (feminine) means someone who has been possessed by the god, who literally has the god within. (The word entheos, meaning "having the god [= theos] within," is the root of our word enthusiasm.) The feminine plural of this word, bakkhai, is Latinized as "bacchae," hence the Bacchae.

The well known view of males who would sing and play would also wear female garments (robes) and were seen as "drunk, perverted or just having fun."

Another object of wide-spread worship, the Bacchus of the Romans, and Dionusos of the Greeks, was also not of the twelve. The name Bacchus is from the root Ba, he cometh, (as in Bootes,) and Acha, smitten, wounded. Dionusos from Dios, the divine, and Nusos, wounded. In the Syracusan dialect Nusos is said to have meant lame (Hederic. Lex.), wounded in the foot.

Dire was the perversion of prophecy in the Bacchanalian and Dionysian festivals of abandoned profligacy.
....Women bearing branches,
....the well-known emblem of Him who was to come,
the Desire of nations, attended the figure of the divinity, others carrying aloft the foreleg of an animal, kid or lamb. This unexplained symbol seems to have originated from the Oriental word Zeroah (Deut 4:34), the foreleg, suggesting the similar sound Zerah, the seed, the offspring. The serpents also, borne as in triumph by the Bacchantes, can only be accounted for by the tradition, that He who should come should be the conqueror of the serpent (Gen 3:15).

The name was Dionysus or Dionusos (Bacchus). What is the meaning of that name? Hitherto it has defied all interpretation. But deal with it as belonging to the language of that land from which the god himself originally came, and the meaning is very plain.
....D'ion-nuso-s signifies "THE SIN-BEARER," * a name entirely appropriate to the character of him whose sufferings were represented as so mysterious, and who was looked up to as the great "purifier of souls."

* The expression used in Exodus 28:38, for "bearing iniquity" or in a vicarious manner is "nsha eon" (the first letter eon being ayn). A synonym for eon, "iniquity," is aon (the first letter being aleph). In Chaldee the first letter a becomes i, and therefore aon, "iniquity," is ion. Then nsha "to bear," in the participle active is "nusha." As the Greeks had no sh, that became nusa. De, or Da, is the demonstrative pronoun signifying "That" or "The great." And thus "D'ion-nusa" is exactly "The great sin-bearer."

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Ken Sublet
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Addition to post.

May 24 2011, 9:07 PM 

Are preachers guided beyond the sacred pages?

Too many young preachers major in rhetoric and do not see teaching that which has been taught as the EXCLUSIVE role of the Church as ekklesia or synagogue of Christ.

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Hey Ken

June 6 2011, 2:01 PM 

I wonder......WHY when someone calls you to the mat for being a hypocrite or otherwise you seem to get agitated and call them a musikator, but revel and seem to enjoy attacking others?

Can't take the heat in the kitchen?

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Ken very ably presents facts and the truth

June 6 2011, 9:25 PM 


I searched this page and found nothing about "someone" calling Ken "a hypocrite." Instead this is what I found and accurately stated:

"Jesus spoke the WORDS of God because He had the Spirit of God WITHOUT METER (so metron can be read). This fits the pattern that SPEAK is the opposite of poetry (meter) music. Speak as in rhetoric would define a hypocrite."

My understanding of Ken's statement is that the hypocrisy is in the addition to or substitution of musical idolatry for "SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs..." (Eph. 5:19).

Nothing to worry about Ken being agitated and, as a result, calling "you, the sinner" like Dave has done to/about others with whom he disagrees.

Ken is "cool, calm and collected." But those attributes will not deter him from sharing his cumulative knowledge of historical facts in conjunction with the truth as revealed in the Holy Scripture. [And I know of no person on earth who has done more extensive research on various subject matters: idolatry, musical idolatry, the church (ekklesia or synagogue of Christ), the HOLY Spirit OF Christ or OF God, baptism--its purpose and results, etc.]

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The Truth

June 26 2011, 7:16 PM 

Ken certainly knows quite well his Greek mythology and books not associated with the Holy Word.

Very knowledgeable indeed.

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Donnie Cruz
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Greek Mythology -- the Scripture Proves It

June 26 2011, 8:21 PM 


I agree with your assessment -- that Ken is very knowledgeable of Greek mythology and books not associated with the Holy Word. You're not jealous, are you? I am. I truly envy his knowledge and the voluminous amount of information he has researched and accumulated through his studies.

But he is doing the right thing. I would do the same thing as Ken does -- be able and capable of proving what the Scripture has already indicated and established -- man's tendencies to be idolatrous. The Scripture says the same thing. Man's recorded history of idolatrous worship -- it matches and PROVES what God's truth has already recorded and revealed.

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God's Word Needs NO Proof!

June 28 2011, 12:56 PM 

Donnie, you said " able and capable of proving what the Scripture has already indicated and established--..."

The Word of God needs man's history or anything else to prove it to be True?
Donnie, you claim to be following the Living God and can actually put your name to that?

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: God's Word Needs NO Proof!

June 28 2011, 10:21 PM 

You are exactly correct, Dave, in that God's truth needs no proof.

However, we cannot alter man's recorded history. When such written history INFORMS us that man has become idolatrous, it matches what the Scripture has already said. "For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens" (Ps. 96:5; I Chron. 16:26).

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No Wondering Here.....I KNOW!

June 29 2011, 4:03 PM 

Donnie, there is no "HOWEVER"....the Word of God stands alone, accepted by Faith and needs no additional proof from man's recorded history.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

No Wondering; Therefore, No Quoting

June 29 2011, 9:53 PM 


There's no point, therefore, in you quoting Al Maxey and Jay Guin, wouldn't you agree? But since you've posted their articles, there's something good about you doing so. It gives us the chance to disprove their distortions of God's plan of redemption and His directives for Christian living.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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