When I went to live in Thankrabok to make my album, I said something that I thought I might never see.I said that I believed Thamkrabok might be the only cure in the world for Crack addiction and that I could try to do something useful in helping other musicians like me to go there and 'get better'. I don't mean 'get clean' because to say that Thamkrabok gets people clean is underselling what they actually do for you.
I had a very perculiar image of other doomed minstrels turning up to do treatment and then re-awakening through music again. Because thats what I did. I alway knew it would not be as black and white as that because everyone is different. But nothing prepared me for what 'did' happen.
I knew about Pete Doherty from long before I went to Thamkrabok. I think I was hitting Rock bottom with my own addiction just as the Lib's were securing there place as a really important band in this country . We have mutual friends and we 'had' mutual interests. Drugs and Music. When I saw the title 'Skag and Bone man' I could not believe how open the whole lexicon of drug taking had become. But when I was taking Crack in the shortlived period that was Jocasta, people would have been horrified and some were that I was partaking in such egocentric and self-destructive behaviour.
Last night, Pete did a a show at the Rhythm Factory which was in many ways, the coolest thing I have seen since I have been back in the UK. It was also the most heartbreaking thing I have seen as well. He is a grown man, its true, and as many people keep saying, he should be a man and be big enough to accept how lucky he is and be brave enough to really repair himself.But if theres one thing that I have learnt in the Monastery , it is that you cannot be compassionate enough to somebody who is suffering from addiction.
The monks call it 'Challenge your Compassion'. The addicts that come to the monastery do their best to drive the monks mad, but it never works because the Monk's just smile and ask if they can help in any way until the addict either leaves or accepts that he/she does not really have an affect on the world and the only thing worth working on is themselves.
Pete never reached that stage because unfortunately he left before the herbal treatment
course was finnished.We spoke about this last night and he knows that if he wants to go back to Thamkrabok to re-take his vow's and do it properly, its something I will talk to the senior monks about and help him myself. But only when he's ready.
People who know me will know that I am not anti-drugs, I am anti suffering and pro freedom. The Libertine's. It's a great thought, but like all grand concepts, its hard to practice. If Pete believes in freedom, he would not offer himself as a slave to Crack and Smack
Using Crack and Smack is as uncool and irresponsible as sponsoring Superbrands who have unsound investments. The mass production of Crack and Smack are directly linked to Warfare, slavery and poverty throughout the world. Libertine? You have got in it you Pete, but you are getting your sums wrong. This is all by the by, but it maybe of interest to others in a similar position to Pete. My personal motivation in this situation has always been to follow through my intentions with actions and I am gutted that Pete could not hold on for me to come and give him a hand. I also want people to know that for all the funny stories about Thamkrabok, the treatment centre ( which is only one aspect of the monastery ) is a very serious successful and gentle treatment.
Many people have been quick to judge the monastery unfairly beacause of what has been said in the tabloids. If anyone else needs help or really wants to know the truth about it then go to www.timarnold.net.
Who ever he has pissed off, Pete should also be forgiven for some of his fuck-ups. Because everyone I saw last night around him are making it harder for him to stop. It is easy to mis-construe and confuse adoration for love. The sort of love Pete is getting on a day to day basis is not making him feel 'loved' its making him feel trapped. Last night was an eye opener.I saw adults in their mid 20'swapping tales about Crack like 14 year olds swap football stickers.I am not saying everyone should stop taking drugs. Most of my friends in this country take drugs. But last night I did not see young Punks and Rockers starting a revolution with music. I saw a bunch of trust-fund kids in make-up and hopeless hangers-on with nothing inspirational to say about anything in the age of celebrity, as they performed the lastest reality execution where everyone contributed to the public hanging. And Pete is in the middle hanging on by the skin of his teeth. Anyone with any conscience whatsoever,try and get a grip of the situation and start taking care of each other. At the end of the day its meant to be about 'MUSIC'.
Pete, I saw the tears in your eyes when we were singing in the back of the van. You are better than average. Lets sort you out so at least the Judge knows you made an effort when you go back to court in August. Call me
Love and Light, Tim Arnold
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wow that is a great read honest and an eye opener.i think you wrote what alot of people want to say but cant always get out. thank you i hope this gets read by everyone especially peter. x
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Wow Tim, that's very heartfelt and poignant. I have been very touched by your plight to assist others who are troubled as you once were.
I remember seeing the Thai monastery on World in Action (I think) back in the eighties and what they were doing for heroin addicts seemed nothing short of a miracle. It was one of those affecting programs that stays with you.
I have been irked by recent tabloid interpretations of such a worthwhile endeavour and think you are doing a grand job of redressing the balance. Keep up the good work.
As for your other comments, I think they are a bit too close to the truth for some to stomach. You are so right when you say it is all about the music, the music and nothing but the music.
Long live the punk revolution!
All the best.
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someone with a shambles login should paste this in a new message, just to make sure the lad reads it. Different kettle of fish reading 'advice' from someone who's been there.
I definately agree with the public hanging point, I bet most of the trust-fund makeup crew from the RF would also agree... its just a tricky one, most people won't see it that way until its too late.
I personaly have all the time in the world for Peter, always will - if you strip away the 'fame', the face, the name and the baggage... your still left with one of the most charming & considerate people your likely to meet. Certainly one of the most charming ive met.
Lets just hope he sees his recent efforts in a positive light, instead of seeing it as failing to quit.
Best wishes, Gaz x
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Thank you Tim for posting such a heart felt and truthful message - you have obviously come so far since having treatment at the monastry and I wish you all the very best and hope that the same will happen for Pete too.
I am fortunate that drugs have never been part of my life or my immediate cirle of friends, but my cousin died a heroin addict aged 23, 18 months ago. To see his mum, dad and sisters at the funeral was heartbreaking. Before this they were all divided and feuding due to his destructive behaviour, stealing and drug dealing. I don't believe that he was a bad person, despite all the crimes he committed to feed his addiction - I feel incredible sorrow that no-one was able to help him overcome his illness. It is true that you can never give enough compassion to someone in this situation. His family will never ever get over this loss.
Tim I hope you are able to help others through your experience, especially Pete who is so, so talented and deserves to succeed. It is such a shame that now he has to try to overcome this under the spotlight which must be making it so much harder - especially when there are people around him glorifying and encouraging his destructive behaviour.
Good Luck - Catherine.xXx
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True, so true... We all want our celebrities dead "at a tragically young age"... "he had so much ahead of him".... "a beautiful life cut short"... so that we can feel sorry for ourselves and pretend that we could have done something to stop it, while we look around for someone (inevitably someone else) to blame for it happening. In reality we're all responsible for encouraging it. Well done Mr Arnold for pointing it out.
Does he need help? Probably - I can't tell you for certain 'coz I'm not an expert and I've never met the bloke but he didn't look well on Monday night and if he was just doing it for the money I hope he's putting it somewhere other than up his nose or in his arm. If not then he's doomed.
Either way, he needs a kick up the arse to make him realise what he's doing to himself (with our encouragement) and maybe the Libs carrying on without him is just that.
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Something else he posted on babyshambles forum that also needs reading:
"Oscar Wilde was a Libertine, so was Rimbaud, Shelley, Lennon et al. If you don't want to be that, then thats ok. But when I watched you performing I got the distinct impression that there was an anti-establishment air about you. I was involved in the May Day riots a few years ago. I had a 3rd floor flat on Frith street and there were a thousand protesters coming down from Soho Sq being blocked by 50 riot police outside my front door. Shields and truncheons, the lot. I was warned by the police for hanging out of my window and playing All you need is love, Come Together and Anarchy in the UK, but when I put on Marvin Gaye- Whats going on, The police came into my home and cautioned me.
Drugs are the sedatives that are allowed to enter our culture so people do not make a stand against the organisations making the rules. It may feel like nothing to do with you but pennies make pounds when you're doing the rounds. And that is Karma. If you are trying to work things out and you keep coming up against obstacles in your mind, always know that you are 'closer' than you know. You're just not relaxed enough to see it. If you want stop the merrygoround, you will have to just jump off. It does not stop. I jumped off and what bruises I got were nothing compared to getting back some fucking control in my life."
It's easy to get blinded.
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By far and away the best thing I've ever read on here - makes a mockery of all the bullshit that gets posted by so many people pertaining to be in the know.
You know who you are - and Richey, don't jump on everything I say as an insult to you and your cronies.
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Hi, this is Tim, I am quite new to this business of emailing, forums and such. Infact the first time I used the net was in Thamkrabok Monastery and the monk that took care of me (and Pete)taught me how to use it and set up my email address. I would like to know what 'Bump' means. Tim
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The most recently added to thread will always appear at the top of page 1 so if a message is being pushed onto another page and it is important, people kindly 'bump' it up to the top again by simply adding a post.
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You're more than welcome Tim, your efforts in general and support for Peter are much appreciated as you can hopefully see.
I can't begin to imagine what you've been through but to turn it around and use your experience for the benefit of others is so commendable. You are amazing.
x
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Yes mate, it was me and thanks a lot. When you have been a junkie like me and gotten through it, every bloody waking minute is a gift. I have wanted to play Glastonbury since I was 12 so when they asked me to play on sunday it was the nicest welcome home present I've ever had. Come down to Metro on the 12th if you like. Its exciting to be playing live again and it would be great to have some support! Take care,later. Tim x
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tim that is such a compassionate and well-said post... summed up everything really well, and i think speaks for a lot of people who can't really find the words. pete needs help, love and support; not judgement and condemnation, and the sooner everyone realises that, the better.
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Your words are nice and kind, and understanding. As a libertine, and a fan of the libertines' music, and someone who has been irremediably charmed by Peter's talent, sense of humour and gallantry, I am despairing these days.
I am also intrigued to know what gave you Tim, a reason to want to jack it in, what made you want to get out of the ditch, what gave you the strength to stay, what did you fear more than looking into yourself and finding out how strong you really were?
We all do it for different reasons, as you rightly said, my reasons for deciding to live do not apply to Peter but I wish somebody found a way of making him care enough.
Thanks for sharing and for caring.
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The reason for wanting to jack it in as you put it was very simple. I love music.It has been my life since I was a child and nothing would go right in my life or with the music I was making. Add that to not having any money, destroying the best relationships you ever had and carrying the guilt of introducing drugs to other people who you loved and thats what made me determined to get off Crack. When its clear that you have nothing and nobody, all you can do is fight and thats what I did and am still doing nine months later. Its a relatively short time that I have been back on track and thats why I am so positive about Thamkrabok. The place is a miracle and I really want to get Pete in a frame of mind where he can consider going again.
I must point out that the letter I wrote was for Peter to read and I never thought I would be having all this communication with anyone other than him. But I am pleased to see that he does have some fans who have a more compassionate attitude to him because the fans at the show made me quite sad. I'll keep chanting if you keep praying. Take care. Tim
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love for music, the love of a good woman (or man), love for life - thank you again for sharing and please do not thank us too much for caring, we love the boy and we are enchanted by his music.
then again some like me know him and love him as a person, although he seems to make it always an uphill struggle to keep on loving him.
I hope Peter will find a reason to live, it is for him that I am writing, I guess it his for him that we all are - and although it breaks my heart to see him so these days, and for this reason I keep well away, that does not alter my love one jot.
The mountain on which Thamkrabok monastery is built is on the land of a dear friend of mine from Thailand, she only has words of praise for the monks' work and of compassion for those who reach that beautiful place as lost souls, hoping to find themselves again.
I shall donate rice to your bowl.
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Thank-you for, as everyone has said, putting into words what I'm sure many have been thinking in such a senstive manner, because you have shown that there is, and always will be, hope, and that there are ways for Pete to break the chains around him.
X
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thank you, tim, for your sincere and gentle words.
i think it’s important that people gain some sort of insight into the addict’s perspective, as it is easy (if not automatic) as outsiders to pass quick judgment. ‘how hard can it be? why can’t he just stick with it? etc.... ‘ no way for those who have not been in such a predicament to genuinely comprehend. and as you said, no one person’s experience is the same – how could it be?
it is agonising to watch peter continue to crumble, and the mere thought of losing the exceptionally talented, charming, unique and complex person we have come to cherish is excruciating.
my thoughts and prayers are with this sensitive, enchanting boy who is far too tormented, desperate and confused to help himself or accept help from others. i yearn for the clouds of doom to lift, and after reading your words i have faith he will get through this dismal period.
i sincerely hope he reads your message and takes it to heart.
x x
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that was a really good post Tim. The best I've ever read on here.
Your response about why you chose to give up the drugs was really good too. The bit about dragging others into the drug scene was very honest and open. I'm sure that in one of Pete's ramblings he also mentions the guilt of encouraging others to indulge in his debauched activities. Finding yourself in a hole must be hell, but deliberately dragging your friends down into it too is a very scary state of affairs...
and your point about the gang of "cool and trendy trust fund crack heads" was something I think a lot of people had been thinking but rarely saying on this board.
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Wise words, softly spoken... We're all addicts now. Doesn't matter if it's crack, smack, or anything else ending in "-ack". "Daniels, J-ack", maybe.... The average drugs are alcohol and television, after all.
Dearest Pete, you need to clean up your act. You don't know me and I don't know you, but I know what addiction is. Maybe you're addicted to adulation, maybe I'm addicted to the Libertines. My father was an alcoholic, and guess what... that's an addiction. If you think I'm not serious check this out...
Just under four years ago my father died. It wasn't sudden, he'd been building up to it for decades - but it still came as a shock, even though I knew it was going to happen. He'd been told by his doctor that if he didn't clean up his act he was in big trouble. Try as he might, he couldn't get the monkey off his back and he fell off the wagon. It broke my heart at the time but I washed my hands of him and it was only later that I regretted it. When he went back to hitting the bottle I said to someone close to me "He'll be dead in three years' time". I was wrong - it was only two.
Never mind the grief it caused my family, never mind the grief it still does. He doesn't suffer any more but we still do, and even now when I read about your exploits it reminds me of it: It's never the person involved who has to deal with it, it's the people they leave behind. Believe me, the stuff you're using is far more dangerous than what my old man was on, and just because you're a young man it doesn't make you immortal, you just feel that way.
Trust me, I thought I was immortal myself - I thought I'd managed to steel myself against the world and wouldn't feel anything about my father being hospitalised with his addiction and that I'd be able to walk into see him and ridicule his predicament, lecturing him on how he'd got himself where he belonged. But when I walked in and saw the great big authority figure of my life lying helpless in bed, unable to control his faculties, drifting in and out of consciousness because of his withdrawal symptoms and asking me if I wanted a drink as if he was going to nip off to the kitchen to make it (which is what he would normally have asked me if I'd just arrived at his flat) I almost burst into tears in front of the nurses.
Did it change my mind? Yes. Did I decide I wanted to help him instead of condemn him? Yes, absolutely. But did that make any difference? No...... Not at all. I still had to sit and watch him get plugged into a ventilator and then die ten days later. It breaks my heart to think of it even now. Back then I sat in bed for three weeks, unable to function properly.
Trust me, the only people who can help addicts are the addicts themselves - just like Tim Arnold has said. The only way I could deal with what had happened was to accept that I couldn't have changed anything through my behaviour. Maybe I would have felt happier if I'd made more of the time I had available with him but he still would have succumbed.
And you'll succumb too, if you don't change your ways. Never mind me and never mind the people who post to this (and the Babyshambles) forum. I read that your mother (along with the rest of the Libs) tried to get you to clean yourself up in rehab. They're the people who matter. They're the people who'll be there for you no matter what. Never forget that it's they who are important - not the people who post to an internet forum, who encourage you into self-destructive behaviour (even if we don't mean to). People like me who turn up at the Babyshambles gigs and feed your ego just want you as another piece of meat to be poured into the great big celebrity mincer and there's no glory in that, honest.
A few years ago I went to the funeral of a friend who had died of cancer at a very young age. One of the speakers said "As children we expect to bury our parents but as parents we don't expect to bury our children". Imagine that being said for you, and imagine the grief you'd cause your mother. If you don't sort yourself out soon, that's where your headed.
The place for you is with in the heart of your family - whether blood relatives or musical ones. You've clearly got people who want the best for you, make the most of it.
With huge amounts of love and belief in you, I hope you'll do the right thing. X
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Buttmonkey, you're lovely too. Seriously. I've expressed similar sentiments to Peter regarding family, and this place, and 'us' (it's on Babyshambles somewhere!) but not quite as personal and graphic. It takes guts to share such things.
x
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You're both *very* kind to say that - as a relative newbie to this I've showed my naivete, I guess. I only hope that Pete can read my message and gain some succour from it, otherwise it'll be in vain. (Although, if anyone else logging in gets some feeling of assurance from it, then maybe not).
Here's hoping XXX
______________________________________________
"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth"
Alfred Einstein
"All governments are lying cocksuckers" Bill Hicks
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Hello everyone, I hope you don't mind me posting this, but for anyone else out there who might be suffering from some kind of addiction, you can check out my Diary of the 21 day treatment I did to get off Crack and get on to music.Go to www.timarnold.net. Even if you know someone who is in a position like Pete, pass it on to them. Love and Light, Tim x
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Tell your friend to go to Thamkrabok.org as well. Both June and I are trying to inform as many people as we can about the way the monastery works and I am in contact with them on a daily basis. If your friend becomes interested in going there, I will be happy to help in establishing contact between her and the Monastery. Just tell her to email a contact number to me .Hope, hope, hope. Tim
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I AM A DEVOTEE OF THAMKRABOK AND HAVE BEEN HELPING WITH TAKING CARE OF FOREIGN PATIENTS FOR FIVE YEARS. I AM THE LADY WHO SAW PETE BEFORE HE LEFT, I TRIED TO TALK HIM INTO STAYING A FEW DAYS LONGER BUT HE DID NOT WANT TO. TIM TOLD ME THAT MANY PEOPLE CARE ABOUT PETER. IF PETER WANTS TO COME BACK TO THAMKRABOK WITH TIM HE IS WELCOME TO.
PETER, PLEASE TALK TO TIM, HE KNOWS THE WAY OUT OF YOUR PROBLEMS.
MUSIC IS EVERY THING TO HIM AND HE KNOWS IT IS THE SAME FOR YOU.
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That brought a tear to my eye and gooebumps to everypart of my body. i have not been directly linked to anyone who has had such a problem with drugs, but it touched me. what he has said is completely true. pete is true genius and could go on to be a name in history. i think it would bode well for him to take notice.
Thank you Tim
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Hi Tim. I'm not going to say what everyone else has said 50 times on this thread, but I will say Thank You sir and well done.
I've been reading your post above and I've just read Butt-monkey's post while listening to your new song 'A Way to Reach You' and I can't stop crying. It's beautiful. Please help him Tim, please...
MW xx
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Dear 'buttmonkkey69'
I know its a bit late to respond to your message but I have only just seen all the responses to the letter I wrote to Pete and what you said is brilliant. To know that it does not make any difference what you do to help someone and not condemn them is the right thing to do and the hardest. This is an approach that many people struggle with in England when they are confronted with helping an addict and its just basic procedure back in the monastery. It is really encouraging to hear such astute understanding on the subject from somebody on these shores. Idon't know what you do for a living but its people with your knowledge that Thamkrabok need there to help with the foreign patients.I passed on the details about the Monastery to an addict a week ago. They are in thgeir second week of treatment and I have been on the phone to his mum nearly every day since he got there. You are absolutely right about it being everyone else that suffers around the addict. This is why I think its important that people realise that drug addiction is a disease like any other and you do not have to be the one taking the drugs to get infected. I am sure your father would be proud of you if he were stll with you today, may he rest in peace.Thanks for trying to help.
Love and Light, Tim Arnold
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This is really good stuff and quite subversive actually. Its easy to forget that drugs are just as much a hateful corporation as everything else that is destroying the personality of humanity. Not taking drugs is how to be truly rebelious.
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Dear Tim,
Thanks for your kind words. Firstly, I have to admit that if I'd known when I first looked at the forum that I was going to write what I did then I would have chosen a more sensible login (!). But I guess that if you're going to overcome any kind of adversity you have to have a sense of humour (...er, mine's a bit twisted ;) ...).
It's true that you have to experience being around someone whose behaviour is erratic and, to most of us, unacceptable to understand what it is to cope with addiction, whatever type that may be. I hope that as few people as possible who read any of this ever have to confront a similar situation. I don't want to overstate what happened in my family because it's undoubtedly a lot more common that anyone wants to admit, just one of those embarrassing things that we pretend doesn't exist. Denying it is so much easier than dealing with it.
And, as you've said, I pity anyone who thinks that it's cool to get involved with hard drugs (I think we all know what that means). I remember talking to someone a while ago who claimed that "you can take pure heroin all your life and it won't have any long-term effects on your body - certainly not in the way that cigarettes or alcohol do" (needless to say, he'd never taken it himself). I'm sorry, but it's a bit wider - and deeper - than that. Unless of course you happen to be a trustafarian with no family to worry about...
I don't think you ever meant to bring anyone down with your post and I certainly didn't mean to with mine. I apologise if I did - it was very late and I was very drunk (just like my dad used to be...) but it was something I suppose I needed to get off my chest and maybe the anonymity afforded from this forum helped. Maybe I thought that it might make a difference at two in the morning when I was loaded. But if someone does get some assurance (no matter what their connection) then maybe it was worth it?
Rob
"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit."
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Rob...
do you know that what you have said regarding 'dealing with it' opposed to 'denial' is the key to the heart of the matter concerning drug addiction . The shame and embarrassment that people feel because of their loved ones that have addictions is almost always to blame for the length of time it takes an addict to recover. My own mother never wanted to cry out for help because she thought that I might clean up. And if I did, she would have given me a tag by grassing me up. She suffered for years because of that as so many others do. Opening the doors and accepting that these things are part of the lives we all lead is crucial. You did a great thing in talking about your Father, probably for your self but certainly for others to feel less awkward about sharing their problems.
When Noel Gallagher said that thing all those years ago about drugs being as popular as a cup of tea, I understood the uproar everyone was in but he made a great point. Its like the sodding common flu. I still don't understand why newspapers make a big deal out of the 'drug Hell' headlines. Every body knows someone with an addiction. Suffering is half of what life is all about and we won't get anywhere if we behave as if its an unacceptable thing. Nice one for being true.
Tim
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you know i dont lie just to make you cry
i can see the kindness yet still i try
when well it stop? when will these demons pass by...
il leave now before its to late il get some help and come back to find you(s) il be bigger and better then you can judge me (my talent)(personality)(my health)
Perhaps the Albion has reached arcadia
when your ready we'll turn around and come for you
just alight that flare....
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I'm not sure where it is, is it the forum page? I can't see it there. Forgive me if I appear a bit dense but I still getting my head round this net-chat stuff!
Tim
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When you go to babyshambles.com click on the bottom picture to take you to the first page, then simply click on each picture to take you to the next page. Be warned, it may bring a tear to your eye.
x
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I saw this when Peter got back from Thailand. I'm not sure what date that first page is from, so it would'nt be right to comment on it. To be honest, the communication with him that I am trying to make is real. I don't want to do this with a computer keyboard. But thanks for telling me about it. The thing is, there are moments, I am sure ,when Peter is sick of the routine and their are as many moments when he feels comfortable. I am just waiting for one of the moments when he feels uncomfortable enough to want to get better. I have heard people and read letters by people who are 'bored' of the whole thing and are'giving up' on Pete. Well ,that attitude sucks. You can not help someone if they don't want the help, true, but you can always let them know that the door is open when they finally want some shelter. Tim
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Tim, I totally respect your attitude and approach. It is very humbling.
Among those pages, bubbling under the surface, is a cry for help in my opinion so I think you are right to wait for the right moment because I'm sure they do occur.
The people who express being 'fed up' with the situation don't seem to be able to connect to reality or their own humanity. I hate the celebrity culture and the two dimentional pockets that people are expected to fit in.
Slowly society is letting these values filter down to grassroots level and it is worrying.
When did we start looking only at each others faces and not into each others souls?
x
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You're missing the point. There is nothing outside of yourself that you can control. Drugs, peoples opinions, your partner, your job, etc. When you break your life down to the reality that all you can ever really hope to achieve in an 'action' from an 'intention' is 'yourself', fear suddenly reveals itself as the demon it really is.Fear is what makes you think your existence has some influence on the world. Bravery is knowing that you do not, and that it does not matter.
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More of a Blake man myself - I'm never quite sure where some of these posts come from.. from the stratford man or a young pretender. And if it is, he is he looking for a response or just the attention? Probly the latter.
"All things begin and end in Albion's Ancient Druid Rocky Shore"
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Buttmonkey, can you tell me what this Albion and Arcadia thing is? I only saw the Lib's once before I moved to Thailand and its clear I havea lot of catching up to do. Whats it all about? And did you know that Blake was the first chief of the Order of Bards, Pvates and Druids?
Tim
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Tim, I'm just scratching at the surface - on both fronts. I love William Blake's poetry and I love the Libs music but if I could fully understand what was going on in either Blake's or Pete's heads I'd probably be as..... erm.... 'touched' as them. (Not that that's a bad thing...). I could never explain it as well as some of the people on this forum - can anyone do the honours? Words fail me when I'm sober..
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Go for the link there, it takes a whil to read through...but it's all nice and interesting.
"Ru
(Login RuLibertine)
81.7.54.135 Re: Arcadia and the Albion
No score for this post July 2 2004, 7:29 PM
to save you trawling the archives, i'll give a sort of over view!
Arcadia is a paradise, it's embodied in The Libertines as a utopia and the ultimate destination of the Albion, which is a sort of pirate ship
the overall plan is to get Albion (an old name for England) to Arcadia (paradise) by using The Libertines and their spirit and music
i think!
that's my version as how i believe it at least
-----------------------------------
i never asked you to understand how "
"Anonymous
(Login lauren_x_x)
213.122.80.168 Re: should i stay or should i go?...(i dont want to leave london tomorrow)
No score for this post July 2 2004, 10:00 PM
what the albion and arcadia are?
well albion is technically another word for england but in the libertine sense its a ship to take us on our voyage to arcadia (which is a made up place basicly meaning a happy place(i think))
hope that helps?
xx "
Tshose are the only recent ones I can remember..:)
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Arcadia was a place in ancient greece, purporting to be a rural democracy, a paradise, a vision of utopia.
Albion is an Olde word representing England.
To quote Peter:
"Albion is our vessel, Arcadia is our destination, and our starting point. One needn't have a classical education or a British passport .. Only an imagination. Let it be what your heart desires, but let not your actions or desires infringe upon the liberty of others, and defend your own liberty to the death."
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So, the subtext behind The whole ethos of The Libertines is indeed at one with my own leanings as a Rosicrucian.
The Areopagus were a secret group of Alchemist's in Queen Elizabeth's court that dedicated their life to the ' Advancement of Learning' by enciphering plays with ancient Alchemical instructions and improving the English Language until it became the power we know it is today. The whole point of this grand influx of information (known as 'The Golden Age')was to take England back to the Spirit of Hermes Trismegistus, the root of all Freemasonic, Kabbalistic and Rosicrucian endeavours. Some may think this sounds crazy but as far as classical history is concerned, it has been my passion since I was 14 when I became a druid, and I suppose I understand exactly what Pet's been going on about . Thanks
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Whoa- Cheers for that - just rushing out the door to meet a chum but I'll check it out when I get back. What did we do before the internet? Work, I guess...
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Actually, the Advancement of Learning was what was happening in The Golden Age. At no point have I suggested it should apply to the Music Industry, although now you mention it...
The only ambitions worth having are those that are not easily sated.
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the door must remain open. no matter how hard it gets or with what force an addict pushes you away and tries to close that door, it must always remain open
something my mother told me when i was a child as she explaind the death by overdose of a seventeen year old heroin addict in her care some years before.
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That is beautifully written bubbyc. You are not online very much are you. Which makes me interested as to what a poetic one such as yourself does the rest of the time.
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Its quite submissive of you to let me decide
Your words made me think that you have a clear and unparalelled contro lof what you are talking about. Does this mean you want to put it all into someone else hands?
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I did not mean to scare you off bubbyc.
I wonder if you would mind reading one of my poems about Peter, its on my website www.timarnold.net and its called Serving a Roasting Baby. I would be delighted if you could tell me what you think . Like you said, its just feelings and feelings are everything and the only thing worth fighting for in a world that would have you order them from a slot machine. Anybody who is in the know knows that we are all going back to Mount Parnasus to help Athena in her quest to Shake the Spear of knowledge once more. Yes, I too believe in Arcadia. Have done all my life. The secrets of Hermes are everything.You must know your fellow comrades from those who are trying to make a mutiny. Then the light will shine as a tear from the heart of Pallas Athena. She is waiting for you. Tim
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Everyone has shown a great deal of understanding for Peter and I just want to remind everyone that its crucial to remember that when tou see drug addicts in the streets you live in or outside in the parks where you go for picnics. They are all one and the same. People who made terrible mistakes that they could not escape from. Understanding, patience and unconditional compassion is what an addict needs.
I could not find any of those things from my friends or from my family and that is what pushed me further into oblivion. It was the love of a hundred monks that got me clean. That is a form of loving that we could all learn from now. Tim
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Aplogies if you've already been asked this Tim, but what do you think of Pete's comments that he should beat the demons in his day to day lifestyle, not in a clinic/monastry?
Gaz x
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it takes great courage and humility to accept the help that ones friends and loved ones offer. i pray that pete can find the strength within him before it is too late
xoxo
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I would like to be there for Pet eand in all honesty the real reason is because no one was there for me when I was going through hell because of drugs. I look at Pete and think of myself when I was 22 with a massive crack addiction and nothing but judgement and self-righteosness from everyone around me. Even the people I though loved me took advantage of the situation because I was so out of it. No one could do anything for me and as a consequence I lost roughly 4 years of my life. I don't feel sorry for myself now but I feel sorry for that kid that got lost in a shit storm with no one to help him, And I feel the same about Pete. I would love to be there at the Babyshambles gig if he has time to share with me, because I have time to share with him. Real time. He has to let me know though, because I am skint and I will have to find the money to get to the gig. Tim
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reading this has stirred me very muchly, some really sad tales of peoples battles some winning and some losing.
This has made me hopeful though, its really made me happy to hear from someone that has/ is conquering this addiction.
Tim, it was nice to meet you last night, i wish i had read this previously to meeting you, mind you i was rather drunk. I was telling you about the very strange coincedence that i had seen your band with a friend when i was 14 and two months ago we were desparately trying to remember the name of your band - Jocasta but couldnt, we were even searching online, everywhere and then all of a sudden you appear on here and it all clicked in my head.
Keep on singing,
Please also sned me an e mail if you are interested in playing any flook nights coming up, we would be happy to have you.
flookmusic@hotmail.com
I hope this helps you peter if you are reading this to see that it CAN be done - and you CAN keep singing without it.
XXXXXXXX
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Lovely to meet you too. Where is the Flook night? I would really like to be playing every night while I'm in the UK, SO please let me know. Thanks for a great night! Tim xx
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Not what I expected at all. He's a lot younger than I would have guessed from reading his post. The best singer out of eveyrone who played.cc
was Dot there?
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