<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Rhetoric  

Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

August 31 2004 at 2:46 AM
No score for this post

  (Login waif4)

 
Taken from the Sunday Herald.
The Libertines Crack Up

Singer Pete Doherty’s drug-fuelled split from The Libertines is unremarkable in the world of rock, and probably a healthy development in creative terms, writes Factory Records impresario Anthony Wilson

WRITE a piece about The Libertines? Give me a break. I don’t care about The Libertines. But a piece about drugs and music. Where do I sign up? When I say I don’t care for The Libertines, I’m not being controversial for the sake of it. I often am, though not this time. I find the darlings of NME insipid and drab. And I feel bad about that because I have enormous respect and even love for the two Lib champions, Rough Trade owner Geoff Travis and Alan McGee, the Scot who discovered Oasis.

And I tried. I bought the first album. Played it – for 15 minutes even – but I was pushing myself. So. Crap band and crap album, but good press on the drugs front.

And here’s where I get confused – which drugs are we talking about? The word junkie is used when describing Pete Doherty, the band’s former frontman and co-songwriter, but probably wrongly.

Over the remaining paragraphs of this short piece I am going to appear flippant about heroin. And that can be a stupid thing to be. I know just how dangerous and destructive smack is and have seen friends die, so if I offend, please take that into account.

But – the end of a musician’s creative life? Please. Do we have to review the history of 18th and 19th century British poetry to remind ourselves that although 15% of addicts die, and 60% just stop, around 20% live – in something of a haze admittedly – and produce work, good work, until they die of other causes?

Funny this should involve Alan McGee. Back in late 1988, McGee ran up to me on the wide balcony overlooking the Hacienda dance floor (those were his formative days as an honorary Manc) and said, “Tony, that band of yours, the Mondays, you’ve got to sell them now, you’ve got to break them as soon as you can, Tony.” “Why Al, what’s the hurry?” “They’re all gonna die Tony, they’re all gonna die”.

Having realised McGee was talking about their narcotic indulgence, I tried to calm him down and repeated one of my mantras: “Alan, remember what [co-founder of Atlantic Records] Nesuhi Ertegun used to say: ‘Don’t worry about the drugs, some of my biggest artists are junkies, they’ve been junkies for 20 years. They’ve been giving me platinum albums for 20 years. Don’t worry about the drugs. Cocaine, that’s different.”

And there it is. Smack can kill you, but, if you have the strength, it need not kill your creativity (Thank you, Mr Coleridge). As for the other drug – I’d love some informed medical comment instead of outraged public abuse. We all know why cocaine, inducing euphoria and false confidence, makes you think you’re doing great work when in fact the work is utter bilge. That we understand. But why does it make seriously good artists produce utter crap in the first place? And cocaine-fuelled creativity is always, always utter crap. That’s what I want to know.

Anyone who has worked more than a few years in the Garden of Earthly delights that is the music industry has had their “cocaine album”. God help us. For me, the awful three years during which I worked for a company called London Records was only made bearable by the knowledge that in the Tin Machine, they actually had a worse band and album than my lot Revenge. Nuff said.

And so if the drug of choice for Doherty is indeed crack, then that is the cocaine problem to the power of three. Or maybe 33. My beloved Happy Mondays coped well with the stuff Alan McGee was worrying about in 1988. But when they hit crack on Barbados in 1991, the end was nigh …

The one thing that would help – not Doherty, but musicians in the future – is if someone could answer my plea for medical reasoning behind the destruction of creativity that goes hand in hand with the white stuff (no, not amphetamine – that increases your IQ by 7%) and even more the distilled white stuff.

Just don’t use the word junkie; that gives the wrong impression of laudanum: for someone who’s lost on crack, the word should just be “fool”. Another cautionary note; after Shaun Ryder of the Mondays (and most of the rest of them) got lost on crack in Barbados, I despaired and gave up on Ryder in particular. And I was totally f***ing wrong. The lyrics on his Black Grape stuff were up to form (that means sheer genius) and even last year’s understated Australian album contained a single, Scooter Girl, which is up there with his best. So: sack the fools; but don’t give up on them. And as for a band’s main creative source leaving, beware easy predictions. Two other mates, Peter Jenner and Andrew King, were managing a psychedelic outfit in the 1960s. Main man did drugs and went a bit crazy diamond. Peter and Andrew went with the main man and left the baggage (“the musicians”) behind. Main man was Syd Barrett. The band ended up on the Dark Side Of The Moon. Be warned.

So what is this Libertines bullshit? Could it be marketing? I don’t think so; McGee is too honest for that. And I was accused of marketing the Mondays with drug stories when all we did was sit back and wait for the latest excess to occur.

Drugs and music are deeply interesting: Sergeant Pepper was not made on acid, it was made on speedballs; heroin, meeting soul music at the centre of Sly Stone’s cranium, created funk and modern dance music, and on and on. But The Libertines. Try the album and not the press; if you get it, good luck. If, like me, you don’t, then run to the new sounds of British black youth finding an authentic, non-American voice in the wonderful world of post-grime.

(Yes, I’ve got a new band and they aren’t skinny white kids with guitars and “drug problems” – they do have a drug song though; High-Grade Is My Grade.)

This article was not written with a little help from my friends – and I am wondering if my friends Geoff Travis and Alan McGee will ever forgive me – but The Libertines, with or without the drug scandal, are not the big event NME thinks they are.

Tony Wilson is founder of Factory Records who signed Joy Division, New Order, Happy Mondays and James; he was also behind the Hacienda club in Manchester.

The Libertines release their second album, The Libertines, tomorrow



Kinda interesting....

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

(Login MondeTriste)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:48 AM 

Oh, I remember reading this. Yeah, it's a pretty unconventional.

-----------------------------------
"The music was still fantastic when Pete was on crack." -Name witheld

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   


(Login TheFrenchOne)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 3:02 AM 

Anthony H. Wilson indeed - the only thing he left out was the name of this new band of his, although obviously they're black which is all that matters. Name-dropping twat if you ask me. Next time you're asked to write an article about something 'Tony', try to stick to the subject matter you self-aggrandising Cock End.

Here endeth the lesson.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login Ms.Bojangles)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 3:12 AM 

Oh Frenchone - I like your style!
xxx

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login bubbyc)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 9:37 AM 

i think its terrible

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
lou
(Login fifiramone)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 9:49 AM 

tony wilson = legend, he's done major things for music i agree... if he doesnt like the libertines that's his problem. I will say a few things though amoungst that list of bands he forgets to mention really shit bands that he signed like Durutti Column and a certain ratio.

i really enjoyed that article, i love tony although he's a twat!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login holden.c)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 10:21 AM 

as much as i hate to admit it,tony has a good point(though growing up in manchester ive come pto distrust every word pthe little **** says).the fact is pthat you are able pto carry on a reasonably normal live with a heroin habit.i think if peter was just doing gear things woudnt be in the mess they are now.the thing is that he has pthe money,so he dosent have pto get money to score anyother way.the problem is crack.with heroin you can have a few bags a day and leave it at that,but cracks different.the problem is how is he paying for it all,i imagine pthat its mostly on tick until pthe album comes out,so if you add it up its going to cost a lot of money when the time comes.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login Calicowall)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 10:35 AM 

Tony Wilson - he's like yer dad inne?

Or yer grandad.









Pass the pipe I think I'm Bowie!!!!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login dustmite)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 10:40 AM 

hahaha good old Tony!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   


(Login The_Walk)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:33 AM 

I've seen Wilson's new band, they played with the Mondays at Clapham Common last weekened. They are shit. And Wilson is the biggest prick in the world.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login holden.c)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:47 AM 

yeah many a time he would force me to listen to world of twist before bedtime,he still mumbles something about vinny rielly being god or something;)

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login fifiramone)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:49 AM 

Vini Reilly is a fucking legend but his stuff is shit!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login joelion)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:52 AM 

He sort of bends the truth a bit to fit his arguement. As an example of a shit 'cocaine' album he points to Tin Machine, which was definitely one of Bowie's 'clean' albums. Bowie's real cocaine album was 'Station to Station', which shows that cocaine and creativity can go hand in hand.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login snoozy_1)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 12:43 PM 

"Smack can kill you, but, if you have the strength, it need not kill your creativity"

...What a ridiculous statement.
I'm not anti-drugs, but this whole idea of putting artistry and creativity (which are, I admit, the backbone of life) above life itself is really unsettling.


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login dustmite)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 12:48 PM 

Don't take him too seriously, he loves to cause a ruck. Bless 'im. And you've got to admire the man's passion, anyone that raves about A Certain Ratio for this long.......

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login snoozy_1)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 1:05 PM 

Aye, tis true, Dustmite, he likes to be controversial and I always take the bait!!
To give him credit, he makes ya think, at least.
I've calmed down again now!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login free-spirit)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 12:55 PM 

the happy mondays were/are better than the libertines will ever be. lou has been the only person to say something reasonably sensible in this mess

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login meeper)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 1:38 PM 

Tony is being characteristically obnoxious, but he had a very good point here.

Heroin doesn't really stifle creativity as it just really chills people out when they are on it and doesn't make them uber paranoid and slightly psychotic like crack does. Crack is about 50 timees more dangerous than anything else Pete could be hooked on.

I've tried it loads of times and luckily never got addicted. But seriously, it literally drives people crazy and definitely stifles creativity. I also with wilson's stance on coke. Not with his take on the libs music.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login holden.c)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 1:42 PM 

question.lets say wilson loved the libs,does anyone think he would do a better job than Mcgee?.can anyone remember how many years the cycle pthat he talks about is?he was saying how music goes in cycles,punk,rave,grunge..

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login dustmite)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 1:47 PM 

As far as I can remember it was 10 years. No, he wouldn't do a better job than McGee as he has no business sense and isn't a manager. He could probably do a good job of bankrupting Rough Trade though.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login alimarchant)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 1:48 PM 

I thought it was thirteen...

1963, 1976, 1989, 2002?

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login meeper)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 1:59 PM 

TW may be an arrogant, tone deaf twat but what he says about crack and coke stifling creativity is very true.

For years Keith Richards was able to produce excellent music while being a heroin addict. Heroin makes people incredibly laissez faire and uberchilled, that's why prison officers overlook it. Used carefully, and smoked rather than injected, heroin's components are technically not even that bad for you. Crack, however has the reverse affect and long term use will serious alter your brain psychology, making you crazy, ultra paranoid and slightly schizophrenic.

That's why it is vital Pete comes off it. Psychosis and Cardiac arrest guaranteed.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login outofplace)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:39 PM 

Not an expert but from what I gather Keith Richard has survived heroin rather than produce 'excellent music' under its influence - the Stones didn't produce much of excellence at the height of his addictions and the live performances suffered too in the 70s.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login dustmite)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:00 PM 

You might be right there.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login dustmite)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:04 PM 

My "you might be right there" comment was about the cycles, not the drug thing btw

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login meeper)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:12 PM 

Whatever way you look at it, crack is the worst possible offender, drugwise - I know a woman who has developed acute schizophrenia and works as a hooker as a result of taking it.

She hears voices all the time and thinks the whole world is against her. I really pray this kind of predicament doesn't befall Pete.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login dustmite)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:18 PM 

I'm not disagreeing with you, except for the heroin may possibly be good for you idea!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login WillGreen)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:24 PM 

If he had written an article saying how good the Libertines are, everyone would be saying stuff like "yeah, and he should know, because he's been in the business so long, and he's signed so many bands". But since he said something that you don't agree with, he is transformed into a twat.

I think the article's a pile of piss by the way, but not because he doesn't like the Libertines, but because of the ridiculous statements he's making.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login Dary.G)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:11 PM 

fact is: he says you should listen to the albums, not the press...


so dont listen to that story, any other story - best thing a band can have is a crowd that wanna see them soley on the music, not the front pages.

I think we all know that if the bands' songs weren't so good then all this over exposure would have seen in their demise a long time ago. Their songs are more stories than 'tunes', people love it... some will TRY to break it.


fuc...

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login madheads)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 2:44 PM 

What a wanker

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login AWaster)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 5:28 PM 

The problem with Tony (sorry i mean Anthony) Wilson is that he enjoys talking about himself a lot more than he should

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login moods84)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 5:40 PM 

tw must have lost his mind, true he did launch some top acts, but to diss the libs music, and support the shower of shite he currently is (and they are completely shit), is a sign he no longer has the scoutiog talents he once did, in his words, nuff said

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

Anonymous
(Login skemkarlos)
TopBoy

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:10 PM 

shaun ryder - genius? no no no

very funny guy - oh yes!

but not a genius, what an utter utter wanker wilson is, put yer slippers back on grandad,




yippie yippie yi yi yay yay yay

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Ned
(Login UpTheRacket)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 5:45 PM 

The thing you have to remember about Wilson is that he only likes his own bands. You can get him to grudgingly acknowledge the Smiths and The Stone Roses but that's about it.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
mayer
(Login european_son)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:20 PM 

Ian Curtis to Tony Wilson: "why haevn't you put us on telly yet you cunt"

Barney Sumner on Tony Wilson: "You ruined my career you cunt"...

Peter Hook on Steve Coogan playing Tony Wilson: "the second biggest cunt in Manchester playing the first"


(the c-word seems to come up a lot with Wilson no?)


Tony Wilson: "New Order can whinge all they like about the Hacienda... but if you could show them a button and say 'if you press this the Hacienda would've never existed', i think we all know what their response would be"


Barney: "show me the fookin' button'!".




he is a right cunt Wilson, isn't he?

fun article though... a bit obvious though innit. very sub-Swellsy sort of rabble rousing, for which Wilson is renowned.


if we're talking wordy Manc cunts who can actually right, Paul Morely's a bit nifty. (and adopted Manc Jon Savage is of course *the* man)

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

RKID
(Login RKID78)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
August 31 2004, 11:31 PM 

To be fair, Tony Wilson thought that the Stone Roses were shit when he first heard them. Which shows how wrong you can be....

But I still love him.

And he deserves a few columns to say what he thinks. So fair play.
And lets be honest, crack is shit.





 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

(Login j_marr)

Re: Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs

No score for this post
September 1 2004, 12:20 AM 

until leckie was the producer the roses weren't all that great. i really respect many peoples opinion on music who think the libertines are merely average and think generally wilson raises some good points. hes a twat like, but a likeable twat. much like liam gallagher really.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Tony Wilson on The Libertines and drugs
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Rhetoric  
 Copyright © 1999-2009 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement