too true, that's the third time i've gone to a pete-no-show. first and second time were tolerable, but last night pushed it a little too far indeed. I was proper angry, particularly as it was a big deal of a show,babyshambles big xmas party at the astoria, £20, saturday night, a lot of people went to a lot of effort for it, and the band don't fucking play, cos peters gone awol.
the more people you piss off, the more you're gonna lose fans. I wish I had the balls to make a point by turning my back, and not going to see them again, but I ain't strong willed enough.
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Gemma and Pat were distraught. The Astoria is decimated. The security, for all they might take stick did lash out at a few people but they also took can after can of beer in the face/head. The guy who went nuts with the multicore wiring just lost it - I definitely saw him take a few cans in the head. Some people got caught in the crossfire, having others pushed or knocked into them but why were they still in the venue? The announcement had been made, there was no justification for them being there. I'm not supporting the security here, or condemning the fans. The actual crowd make-up last night wasnt the beer boy contingent it has been at times, it was much more akin to the old Libs crowd. I think three hours waiting, many of them never moving from there spot in the audience was too much to take. Gemmas kit took the worst of it, I'm really hoping Pat's white Fender Jazzmaster was taken off stage as he was telling me how much he treasured that guitar. Of course, the person who shouldve faced the brunt of it all, wasnt there. I cant see a way back for Pete unless he totally, and I mean totally, cleans up his act. Surely he's lost the trust of Babyshambles in the same way he did the Libertines and, I'm certain many of those 3000 expectants in the crowd last night will think twice before going to a gig of his ever again.
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Exactly. I mean, I'd never join the cuntish masses jeering 'junkie waster' or whatever the fuck their small sad little closed cruel minds can muster, personally I think that's spiteful, nasty, and says a lot more about those people's intolerance and frustrated personalities than about Peter and the band...
But it's gone too far now, things need to be sorted out, this can't keep happening. The stage was filled with beer cans the annoyed crowd were lobbing there for two hours before we were told there wasn't going to be a gig, people were booing constantly, that's no way for things to go.
I'll show nothing but support, because I still love the band, and will always go to the gigs because I still get that excitement from them, and the music's still amazing.
But I just hope something gives soon, because this is no way for it to be.
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It was just shocking, we were tucked away in the safety of the balcony, but the crowd just surged onstage, ripping down the curtains and smashing up the instruments.
I don't want to mention the security, I'm sure it's going to be talked about a lot more in the future, but I don't think being hit by a few beer cans could justify things there...
It was absolute chaos. And could so easily have been avoided.
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even if i wasnt there..im saying im dissapointed in pete and the crowd.for fuck sake they had no reason to start such a big riot! (well in a sense they did but its just gone too far in my opinion)
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Never in all my born days have I seen a situation spiral so rapidly out of control. Before the safety curtain came down, there mustve been 100 people on stage and within a minute the whole stage, manned by 5/6 bouncers mustve had 500 on it, with the rest of the crowd not budging. It was 2 1/2 hours frustrating wait released and it was just insane. I've seen hostile crowds before but nothing like that. I cant condemn or condone either side, the security or the crowd - it was just really mad. The security for instance, have been criticised for being heavy handed but likesay, it was 5/6 against 1500+ at one point. And these people who had stood like statues for an hour and a half and got increasingly restless for the subsequent hour, the adrenalin rush when they invaded the stage took over and the lot went! They were completely oblivious to their own safety issues, at one point it looked like the lighting rig, which was being shaken, was going to come down on the hundreds on stage. Madness, utter madness.
I dont think theres much claim for refunds though, not with the amount of damage there will be to pay for, how can you quantify who was to blame?
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Using power is one thing. Abusing power is something completely different. Hitting a kid with cable is utterly utterly unacceptable, particularly as the on of the kids was running away at the time.
It does not matter how many times the security guard was hit with a beer can. If he was losing control he should have removed himself from the situation.
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I watched that whole scenario. The guy definitely took several cans, which seemed to spill large volumes out of them smack in the face and head. No, he shouldnt have lost it - but it really was seriously out of control and the security were fighting a losing battle. The other security guys did wade in and drag him away - and gave him a lot of shit for it in the bargain.
Although they were lashing out, there seemed to be no other way to deal with the massive numbers hell bent on destruction. As I've said elsewhere, I cant condone or condemn either party easily, it was a truly unbelievable spectacle.
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Have you ever been hit in the head with a beer can? I can tell you it fucking hurts. Have you ever been working security when a full blown riot breaks out? I can tell you that it is fucking scary. They're not just big old beefcakes without thought or feeling you know. They are real people not fucking cardboard cutout caricatures.
If the kids want to riot then they can take the consequences of their actions. If the bouncers had "removed themselves from the situation" then what would have happened? Even greater damage to the venue, potentially loss of life... And then it would have been a case of "Security did nothing to contain the situation".
Stop blaming security for a situation that got out of hand because (a)an irresponsible prick decided to do a no-show and (b) his irresponsible fans decided to take this as their cue to cause havoc.
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lots of people have been saying this for ages. that's why they don't go to see babyshambles. many of those that do go probably want to see it all kick off. it's really sad, in both senses of the word.
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pete was seen at the bar about midnight - looking ok. what happened??? i'm mostly pissed off that we were left waiting for so long before we were told that they werent coming on. do you think there will be a refund?
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can anyone seriously confirm this? there was a mischievous rumour about carlos being there doing the rounds which spread like wildfire. besides all but one of the bars are inside the hall arent they? and you'd have to go through the auditorium to get to the other one. sceptical to say the least about him ever being there.
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What I don't understand is why the managment of Babyshambles don't explain what happened. I mean if they said he had over-dosed or there was a dispute with the venue. I know it's a technical point, but I feel the lack of explanation leads to speculation which is damaging for the acts reputaton.If things were obviously not going to plan they should have been more forthright.
Middle-class riots and violent ill-prepared venue staff makes good copy for the hacks. Nevertheless, the joke isn't funny anymore. It's sort of reminds one of Altamount, where the spirit of events is dark with almost tragic consequences.
'Argentine Babe'raised the apparently controversial interpretation of Mr Doherty's actions as the actuality of the "Albion dream". It's a cheap point,but she argues that having known him personally for a few years she can see that the helter-skelter is the true mission. I don't mean to sound smug, but also having known Peter and Carl etc, intimatley, I simply don't think Peter (or Carl)is happy.
Sure,Alan McGee and others will wax lyrical that it's "soo roock'n'rooll" (scottish accent). However, I supposse even industry insiders will begin to castigate the 'rebel de jour' and it's an incestuous business.
Of course a no-show is not the end of the world and there is probably an innocent explanation. However much I try to ignore the shenaigans and keep my opinions to myself, I find this 'scene' really bad news. It ain't sublime and romantic it is sordid. Maybe there were no good old days. Prowling Piccadilly and Fitzrovia with Pete drinking Guinness and smoking the odd 'opium spliff' in flamenco bars was perhaps a nostalgic, dare I say, bohemian illusion. Ballads and old Italian suits had to make way for leather-jackets and crack. Maybe it was twee and pathetic, but it was also innocent and playful.
I did a video for the 'Horror Show' which I keep promising to stream despite protestations from Peter & Carl (As my old boss Malcolm McLaren said, "If it ofends, you're onto something". Alas I'm stranded in a low-tech mediaeval fortress, perhaps in the new year I'll get it into the public arena. At the end of it film Peter ends up in on the grave of Mary (Frankenstein) Shelly's father. He also does a beautiful and poingnant accapella which sort of expresses the sadness and anger of being in the horror show.
Sorry I don't mean to be melodramatic, and I don't subscribe to theory Peter is on a Sid Viscious trajectory. Actually I see him living by a beach, drinking green tea in twenty years time - though many around this hurricane will end up with serious consequences to their health. However, I think he should go abroad and cleanse his vision and soul. Perhaps he did leave something in Moscow.
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I just want to say how utterly disgusted I am...To be honest, I dontthink you can blame anyones actions in this whole thing but Peter. This...The man who CLAIMS to be devoted to his fans..This is how he repays everyone? He has pushed it too far...He fucking endangered lives last nite. he must know that after turning up to venue, letting people SEE you, then making a no show to 2000 odd fans is going to cause havoc...Look at it this way: this so called hero endangered his fans. the fans he supposedly loves... he had his fans beated with cable wires. KIDS. He had people being punched, kicked, people crying. This man caused absolute carnage, and is probably going to endanger the license of the best music venue in London. Is this the hero you all want to keep supporting? Hes disgusting, he wont help himself, so we shouldnt help him by staying his fans. And NME put this idiot at number one in the cool list? Its pathetic. Im so unbelievably angry.
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twattish? YOU my friend, are pathetic. really. people were endanger, and im sure if you were on the brunt end of getting beated with cable, you would not be saying that.
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How is the manager being sacked relelvant? I dont understand the train of thought... That doesnt hinder the band playing, the man didnt die... The instruments were there, ready to go!
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There is stil a managemnt COMPANY, PR, Record company...It didnt have to be that one particular person explaining, and ont op of the fact that my point was i dont see why the manager getting sacked stopped them from playing.
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It wouldn't have mattered what was said, it was always going to kick off as soon as that announcement was made.
They could have told you the truth I suppose... "The Astoria are sad to announce that as Pete Doherty is lying in a crumpled heap of his own shit, piss and drool, Babyshambles will not be playing this evening. Yes, he could have stayed vaguely straight in order to honour the contract he has with each and every one of you but quite frankly he couldn't be arsed because he is so far lost in the haze that the only thing that matters to Pete Doherty is Pete Doherty and where his next hit is coming from."
Possibly.
If you idolise a junkie then this is what will happen. He will continue to break your heart by degrees until he finally smashes it to pieces by dying. If you don't want to see it then stop going to the gigs... Not that I'm sure he'll be able to get any anymore. There's only so much rock n' roll behaviour that venues and promoters are willing to accept without any rock n' roll being played... You have to earn your right to behave like a cunt and Pete has done precious little of one and way too much of the other recently.
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C'mon, things really have gone too far now and only one person can sort it. He's had the chance(s) to end the year on a real high: after the crap of getting kicked out the Libs, court, rehab etc, things looked to be on the up and up; a new band who've got critical acclaim, are selling out venues across the country and have thousands of devoted fans yet he can get it together for the biggest tour yet's finale!
Its got to stop here. He's lost the plot and nobody can take the blame for him now. He's left his fans, who really do idolise him, devastated, angry, battered, upset, skint etc etc and frankly theres just no excuses left now.
Unfortunatley he is a very ill boy and getting worse by the day on appearances. Sure he's got a helluva huge amount of pressures on him but if he could only look behind it all, the sad fact is that people care; a shit load of people really do care so very much and he's fastly losing it all. He has parents, a girlfriend (?), friends and a son, not to mention the love and support of hundreds yet he cant see it all: Peter its time to sort it out mate; youre in danger of losing all the above, your life and your talent, Even you must see that its reached breaking point and the stark choices that are facing you know: SORT YOURSELF OUT!
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Pete definitely turned up, then left about 1ish in a cab. What fucked me off is that they knew that for ages before they announced the cancellation. Left with a fucking £55 cab fare.
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Anyone who invaded that stage and started destroting other people's equipment deserved everything they got. How can anyone criticise the security's behaviour, when, the fans behaviour was just as bad/worse and they're outnumbered by way over 100 to one?
------------------------------
"it's all there in black and scarring grey" matt.o
"you know how I feel about Pete" Jessie
"so then these randiom irish guys ru over... sayin alrigh tliam yer gonna be famous.. wheey blabl i blaged a free hot dog.. but the tight cunts wouldnt buy me one! so really i didht blag a free hot dog."
"Will Green you are a bastard. But a fucking funny one."
"you're talking to a man who admitted swallowing his own spunk on the internet, who will flirt with anything in a skirt, and is a rabid fascistic zionist and anying smartarse wanker"
"do you spell swop like swop or like swap?"
"up until the libertines the clash were the only band that mattered."
"HE BEATLES ARE SHIT SMALL FACES ARE MILES BETTER!!!!!!"
"you're all fat balding 56 year olds on their MUMS AOL account hoping some young boys will come by here and you can ENSNARE them into your little worlds of piss and terror.
FUCKING RAPISTS ALL OF YOU"
"My long review.
They didn't bother checking my side pocket (where I kept the water which I never used during the gig in the end)! Nor below my fleece where I had my camera, a Dictaphone and some tapes. They didn't even undo my pocket below which had my pyjamas and some more tapes and another Dictaphone hidden inside them.
After that someone called Andrew came on stage.
Do any of Babyshambles (bar Pete) write songs? What else did they do before joing up with Pete? Do they currently smoke heroin, or have they don't so in the past?
I think the following is the correct set but as I've not replayed all my tapes yet, don't quote me on it. It's certainly closer than the one the NME posted. When magazines like Classic Rock print setlists they get it right (well certainly for all the gigs I've been to) but obviously NME don't take so much care and attention to detail. They could have put this is what I think they played but not in the right order (like most people on messages boards put). But no they chose not to.
1. The Man Who Came To Stay
This didn't do much for me.
2. Do You Know Me
Great song this. I like singing along to it, expect I don't know much of it yet. So bit pointless trying to sing it but fun none the less. Good bouncy feel to it.
3. In Love With a Feeling
I just love this song. Works best as a full band rendition in my opinion with the bass. Having said the bass was to loud, I still liked it in this song. I tried to sing the lyrics in this one but I didn't know them all. In fact I tried that with a few such as Killamangiro.
4. Babyshambles
At one point during the song Pete got onto a stack at the side and jumped into the crowd. I didn't see him after that until he was back on stage.
The crowd were really going for it now. I Crowd surfing. Later on I saw one person at the back run slightly and jump into the crowd. He was lost for a moment and suddenly reappeared over peoples heads! There was another person near me to tried to get up but he either didn't have the nerve to jump or the other person could lift him high enough!
5. Gang of Gin
I read on Planet Sound (ch4 teletext p351) a spokesman saying that the song Gang of Gin was written before Pete went back to his parents. Well it sounded like they were saying he's wished he'd never written it. Well if that's the case why is he still performing it?
I made sure I listened to the words and I certainly heard Pete say Alan McGee. Whether the lyrics are any good or not the music itself certainly is.
6. Fuck Forever
This song as an Oasis type epic crowd sing along feel to it. I like it but Pete does have better songs such as Killamangiro and In Love With a Feeling my opinion. However they are not such crowd sing along type songs.
I think we then sang Happy Birthday with Pete joining in for part of it.
7. I Wanna Break Your Heart
At this point Dot joined Pet on stage, with Pete taking up the acoustic guitar. I'm not so keen on this song myself. Dot's voice is fine just not keen on the song.
8. Flophouse
The band left the stage and things quietened down in the audience. I quite like this song but not one of my old time favs.
9. Sheepskin Tearaway
I think this was the next song. I wasn't sure of the title but NME list it so I assume this is the one played. It was okay.
10. Don't Look Back Into The sun
This started straight after the last one and everyone joined in. Pete did two verses with the second ending slow.
11. Time For Heroes.
This was fine. Odd to hear such a heavy and famous Libs song done acoustically. You wouldn't think Pete would change it so much I.E. make it non electric.
As this ended Dot walked off and Pete started doing What Katie did on his acoustic. The crowd did the shoop singing whilst Pete stopped, the band walked on and the song started.
12. What Katie Did
One of the nights highlights. Lots of crowd singing to be had and much fun.
13. Killamangiro
One of my all time favourite Babyshambles tracks - Killamangiro. I just love this song and tonight it was fantastic. I love the part where towards the end of guitar solo (after Pete finished talking) the backing tempo changes and Pete starts singing again. "and when the night is..." It's such a great bridge between the two parts and good change of tempo. I also like the fact the guitar solo continues whilst Pete starts singing.
So I was happy, hearing this song. I was expecting to hear this song much sooner.
14. A'rebours
I wasn't keen on this song really. Nothing special. It might grow on me but after Killamangiro it was a bit of a let down. Hearing it again (as I'm just playing it) it's not so bad. In fact it's okay but any song after Killamangrio going to find it difficult going for me.
15. Blackboy Lane
Another song I quite like. Good funky feel to the guitar. The tune isn't anything wonderful but I like the rhythm of it.
Pete sung the opening words to My Darling Clementine. However the traditional song that you might know and not hi song.
16. Wolfman
This was the best song of the night. So powerful. The guitar could be heard really well and the bass didn't seem so loud. The crowd went mental during the choruses and I don't blame them.
Oh well that's the unpradictablity that is Pete Doherty.
So I head out around to the side to work out where the stage door would be. I then waited for Pete to come out, which he did. I got him to sign a 7" Can't Stand Me Now single and told him that I thought he was good.
So I went and bought a London Street atlas. I have several of these already so I got a different make. As I draw maps for a living and collect them as well, no real hardship.
How well did Pete look? What he out of it? It didn't seem like it to me. There again I went to a Hawkwind concert where the then lead singer made a statement about drugs at the end of the set. We are ante heroin etc. etc. I read 3 years later that he had recently come off heroin. Whilst I knew they all smoked softer drugs I didn't suspect he smoked heroin. On top of that he didn't even look like he was on any more of drugs. I was near the front and I wouldn't have noticed a thing.
I almost thought about not going to see Babyshambles as the money might fund Pete's drug habit, if he's still doing it. But then I thought, well if I didn't know he was on drugs, I wouldn't have suspected a thing at the gig and been more than happy to go. So I thought I'll go and hope he spends on it on something else. Of course there's no denying that drugs influence the way songs are written and that great songs can be written on drugs. Not into taking drugs myself but I can see how they can influence songs. I'm not saying great songs can't be written without drugs but drugs certainly do change the way songs sound and people write. Would Pete's songs be as good, if he didn't do drugs? Guess we'll never know unless he becomes tee-total.
It was up a side street!
Timothy Langner" Timothy Langner
"eeerrrmmmm this is probably gunna sound wierd.
Why does pete always wear suits now. Its good to wear smart stuff some of the time and i quite like the look some of the time (in a strictly non gay way may i add)"
"Carl is a kind of biblical hero who is not ashamed of showing his face to the world."
"sorry to be a pain but when im reading threads its annoying when people have such long signatures.
could they not just be removed now to stop my wrist from aching
muchos thanks"
"The cunt with the long signature.
October 19 2004 at 4:30 PM
No score for this post Travis_Bickle (Login Travis_Bickle)
from IP address 217.44.12.151
The security were out of line, they are trained to handle things differently, and then so were most of the fans out of line. Assault is assault. But thats not the arguement...the arguement should be why is anyone still supporting peter?
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I can't condone excessive violent behaviour, especially if any makeshift weapons were used, but outright condemning the security is rubbish, if the fans were behaving like that I can fully understand being pissed off, but, just like the security dealing with things in a different manner, so should the fans have. How can you criticise the security for acting like animlas, if the fans were also?
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Security are paid not to act like animals. That's their fucking job.
If a criminal is breaking the law and being violent, the police can arrest him.
If the police are being violent, it signifies a major problem with our political system.
The Police are the sole (well, Army aside) executors of the legitimate use of violence in our society, and should act in a manner reflecting this serious responsibility.
In a venue, Security act as de-facto Police officers enforcing order.
To compare violence from customers and violence from Security is disengenious.
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Could have been worse... they could have deployed the tasers and pepper spray that I know some security (illegally) carry.
Ideal world, security wouldn't beat up fans because they were stuck in a situation that was fast getting dangerously out of control. Ideal world, fans wouldn't beat up security just to get some kicks out of a bust evening because their idol decided to fuck them over.
Evidently we don't live in an ideal world.
Tell me something I didn't already know.
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I agree with WillGreen, when did mob mentality and violence become a solution to anything?! I don't condone the behaviour of the security but at the same time I don't condone the fans that saw fit to destroy and steal property!
Dont be vague. Ask for grounded.
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I was really disappointed about the whole thing more than anything. It's my 18th birthday today and last night/the early hours of today has put a downer on everything. I decided to leave just before 2 but still hoped he'd turn up for everyone else. Apparently that wasn't the case.
Having said that, I have more sympathy for the people who travelled a long way or bought tickets from a tout, they really wasted their time and money. And now I feel bad for selling my ticket to someone (even though it was for what I paid for it).
Bitterly disappointing.
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Lolly and Will Green you speak a lot of sense. I am fucking disgusted with the news about the rioting and destruction of the astoria YOU BUNCH OF SELFISH FUCKING ASSHOLES. Pete Doherty, his problems, his gigs, are not the be all and end all and any of you that were rioting are totally responsible for your own pathetic, moronic, dangerous actions, not Pete, not the security. The Astoria is a beautiful, classic venue and deserves an infinite amount more respect than this. I AM SO FUCKING ANGRY.
In defence of security as well, having worked at the Astoria I can vouch for the fact that the security are at times obnoxious and ruder to punters than needs be. However, they are also decent people, they are often lovely too, they are by no means animals, they are just trying to earn a living. They are also not police, they are security guards, and they obviously do not go through the training of riot police and they do not represent all that is supposed to be moral and righteous, so don't go fucking moaning when they try and defend themselves against hundreds of little cunts. If you were antagonising them with your own violent behaviour you probably got everything you fucking deserved. And if a Babyshambles no-show is the worst thing that has happened to you this year, you should count yourselves very lucky.
Why do people riot when Pete doesn't turn up? Why do people blame Pete? We are all responsible for our own actions, so take fucking responsibility. We all know he goes awol on a pretty regular basis so why act all surprised and devastated when it happens again? It's not like you didn't see it coming.
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Bentrader, I didn't dispute the fact that rioting gave the thing novelty. The gig of course might've been if Peter didn't have to pimp his ass for tedious little people like you! Babyshambles etc, get in the studio and stop entertaning this fuck'in circus. In the end whatever. I don't give a shit about your opinion, Babyshambles don't give a toss about your opinion. In the cosmic scheme of things your little 'riot' was on no consequence, just like yourself.
God I can't stand you stupid fuckin leechs. How could one stand before your disgusting adulatory stares? Get a life. Create your own art.
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You know, its sad that you cant understand people like Pete Doherty inspire people (though myself cantunderstand why). they go to gigs like you to watch the music come to life. And all you can do is criticise. Babyshambles obviously do care about their fans, and its what makes people cling to them that much more, because the band are so accesible. So thats why you get these 16 year old kids idolising Peter...You have to understand things like that. Not everyones mind works the same, and thats something you should be thankful for.
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"How can anyone criticise the security's behaviour" - yeah, how can anyone criticise security indiscriminately whipping people. I mean, how over-critical are some people?
For the record, I also think throwing beer cans is just plain stupid (having been hit on the head by one in the past).
As for Peter, we don't actually know what happened last night. But if he did act irresponsibly, what does that tell us? It's not news he has a drug problem. Everyone I've ever known who's taken that much drugs has ended up acting irresponsibly and like an idiot at times. That doesn't make them bad people deserving of vitriol. It means they need help. Where that's going to come from I don't know. But I hope it does, so that Peter's talent can shine through all the shit. But I don't see how "Peter's pathetic" kind of posts help anyone. If a no-show makes you that angry, go and shout at the sky or something - it's more productive that winding yourself up further on here...
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"That doesn't make them bad people deserving of vitriol. It means they need help. Where that's going to come from I don't know."
No one can help Pete until he helps himself. It would do him the world of good if his fans desserted him until he sorted himself out. Peters pathetic messages are probably ins ome vein hope that peter will get his head out of the crack pipe for a minute and read what his fans think of him. He needs to hear it, because he cant treat kids the way he does.
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(i) The venue knew that the gig wasn't going to happen at at least 1am.
(ii) The venue decided to hold this information back for an entire hour, till 2am, despite the fact that impatient people had been wating a long time.
(iii) The venue knows that they will be forced to give refunds to customers, and thus they will lose money.
(iv) The venue has a license to sell acohol and make profits till ... *pauses*.... *thinks*.... *oh* 2am.
(v) I may be a conspiracy theorist, and I'm NOT absolving rioters or Peter or Security or anyone from their responsiblity, but, Astoria Management have to accept their share of culpability too.
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the security, venue or anyone else shouldnt be under fire here. i give up. because the only person you should blame is Peter. It was obviously his fault the gig didnt happen. You have to be cruel to be kind, and if he had bothered to do his job he would have been onstage. he seems to think he can get away with shit like this...No one should be able to.
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but what's the solution? Leaving him doesn't help, being there for him doesn't help. And I don't see anyone around who could tie him to a bed and slap him with a wet fish for a few days.
just so bloody irritatingly saddeningly scornfully pathetic
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Not a lot of people know that my first gig *should've* been Eternal at Wembley Arena just over two years previous, but that got cancelled. On the night.
Yes, I was 12 years old at the time, but I didn't riot. Neither did any of the other disappointed people.
Blaming the whole incident on one man's actions are absurd.
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Its not absurd when you look at it like this: if he had shown, nthing bad would have happened. yes, people were wrong for rioting. Its pathetic, actually, but itsalso expected? As someone said earlier, we dont live in an ideal world, and this was expected.
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If you hadn't have bought a ticket, you wouldn't have been disappointed, so it's your fault.
If Peter hadn't bought a guitar, he never would've been in the industry, so it's Mister Guitar Shop's fault.
If it wasn't for Mick Jones, John Lydon and Morrissey, Peter may never have formed a band, or certainly not like the one's he has, so it's all their fault.
Causation cannot be the sole arbiter of moral responsibilty, that's ridiculous.
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OK, point taken but at the end of the day, when you dessert thousands of people, things are going to turn nasty. He was completely irresponsible, pathetic and selfish, and i dont see what sticking up for him is going to do. Im sorry, but I could say alot stronger words about him right now. I dont see how ANYONE can justify his actions.
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Yeah Mayer has good points: when it became apparent there was to be no gig it wasnt handled in the best of manners and that all adds to the bad atmospheres but unfortunatley, again, we all know why it never went ahead.
And another point: the other week another singer from not as well known a band made a twat of himself on stage. And yeah he doesnt have the same problems but what was the first thing that heppened next day: a full blown explanation, an apology to all those that mattered and an acknowledgment of what he'd done and what he was gonna do (whether or not he does anything isnt relevant!). Ok he did show up but, by the sounds of it he shouldnt have bothered either, yet he's man enough to come on and say hands up, I made a clown of myself and Im sorry! I know Peter is in a different boat but the basics are the same and Ill bet blue murder he doesnt apologise. And that really does speak wonders of how far he's slipped off the edge!!!!! He's let down everyone and its simply an indication of how ill and how much help he REALLY does need now!
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european son you are one of the few talking sense here. i absolutely agree with you and was going to make the point myself. yes, individuals have to take responsibility for their own behaviour - but we as a group were definitely manipulated last night... all stuff about pete and his problems aside - those thinking of the ledger books more than the welfare of the crowd need to stand up and take some of the flack for a change.
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oi Alex- leave it out- and stop misinterpreting me....the 'having known them for a bit' wasnt the point at all, i just used it to back up my tue idea- which is that we can all try and judge peter but there is always a choice in life to live true to your ideals or to leave them. Iam simple acepting the chaos and the mnadness knwing its shit/ trying to see the positive which is that not many of us keep going that far in persuit of our personal dreams. I meanthe fac tthat babysha,bls have gone from what they were to what they are now is pretty impressive, and its similar to what happend inthe libertines- and you must admit that pter going awol is nothing new, its a typicalthing- but because his profile is higher than it was before, it becomes a bigger deal everytime.
I do not condone his actions and i dont get anything out of an association with him as i told you before in a pub somewhere- it only makes me look like I havent got anything else, which I do and I m proud of. Im making my own career in a completly different trade and its going well, but it hasnt always ben so and i feel ican relate to the feling of going on with following a feeling artistically or simply demoralising and sinking to expectations- instead of breaking barriers in public opnion and taste and binging a vision to the masses.
http://www.intimaria.org
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Should have come to see the metro riots
at nambucca. They were great and so were
we and so were vincent vincent and the villians.
Oh well, how many chances do the boy wont.
x
merry christmas
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I really couldn't find the words last night, and still can't. The no-show was truly pathetic; last night should have been the peak of Babyshambles' time together so far. Instead, we're left standing for hours like pricks, trying to assure ourselves that the gig will happen, everything will be fine in the end. But it wasn't.
No excuses can be given for what followed though. The riot (and that word isn't an over-exaggeration) was completely unnecessary. I understand that people were angry, upset and frustrated at the time and money we all wasted but it was like seeing footage of 1980's football hooliganism up close. Obviously if the stories circulating about the way the security team handled it all are true, then those concerned should be sacked immediately - but it WAS essentially a fight of at least 50 to 1 and it's hard to blame them too much for losing control in my opinion. Much of what was going on up there looked to me like snivelling little rich kids wanting to get up on stage and tell their stupid little friends on Monday how they were part of the riot. The little cunt posing for photos on Gemma's drumstool outside the entrance after the gig needs disembowling.
IF YOU WANT TO GET ON STAGE SO FUCKING BADLY YOU LITTLE SHITS, FORM A FUCKING BAND.
But don't call yourselves Towers of London - now that's a band that deserve to have their equipment destroyed.
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He's a fucking crack junkie. And this happened before. So why riot over something that you should all very well take into account? And if you get your money back what's the big deal? Fucking spoilt cunts is what those people are.
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not so much that. just the pathetic "he's a fucking crack junkie" shit people like you keep spouting over and over again. it won't get anyone anywhere talking shit like that, we all know he's an addict and it needs to be sorted, no need to keep rubbing it in the dirt like that. just makes you look like a complete and utter small minded reactionary prat.
No use stating the obvious in a cruel way anymore, things need to be sorted.
But yeah, the riot was uncalled for. It really shocked and upset me. Do you not read my other posts? Selective reading I think. Got a chip on your shoulder.
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oh really? thats lovely, thank you mari, i look forward to seeing/meeting you soon, 28th? say hi if i dont spot you first, i like your site, just had a quick nose about. dave xxxX
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Didn't mean to make a dig at you. Shouldn't have really come swanning about here anyway. Just believe that high-profile or not, this Arcadian mission is slightly of course, and to continue in such metaphors, the Good Ship Albion is heading to the rocks. While the pirates and prancers revel in the chaos, smoking the cargo and the dreams, everybody assures themsleves its 'alright man'. I'm just a slowly ageing country bumpkin, I don't understand these things. Nevertheless, I don't feel it's making people happy, is that not a lust of a libertine?
Best wishes,
Alexander
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alright, tues sounds good, someone perhaps a friend/flatmate of yours saira was mentioning a houswarming on our forum yesterday, is time going backwards? i knew nothing of it. x and yeah barfly on 28th, email would be good too, a bit lost. xxxX
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"I did a video for the 'Horror Show' which I keep promising to stream despite protestations from Peter & Carl (As my old boss Malcolm McLaren said, "If it ofends, you're onto something". Alas I'm stranded in a low-tech mediaeval fortress, perhaps in the new year I'll get it into the public arena. At the end of it film Peter ends up in on the grave of Mary (Frankenstein) Shelly's father. He also does a beautiful and poingnant accapella which sort of expresses the sadness and anger of being in the horror show."
Hot 2 Trot, i would just like to thank you for confirming that i am not insane. i was asking about this video a few months back, but as no one could confirm its existance i thought i had made the whole thing up. i remember its inital mention on this board many, many a day ago and look forward to its release.
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ok we all get the riot was a mistake, but it was understandable. i spent all my money getting to and from that gig last nite, missed my last train home and spent the entire night wandering the streets of london freezing my bollocks of with no where to go and no money to get there with. managed to skank train fair home at 7am this morning and i am fucking pissed off. that is the 3rd time i have been let down by pete, and its the last. not spending anymore money on him. ive never seen so many dejected faces in my life, the disappointment was immense. thought this would be a perfect opportunity for him to finally give everyone the finger and show them how he was getting back on track, obviously not. i feel so sorry for the rest of the band, and cant believe the cunts who stole/trashed their kit.
the riot was a mess. i dont blame people for reacting the way they did, but what a fucking mess. i can understand the security gettin pissed off, what with the can throwing etc... but couldnt believe it when i saw a kid in tears being thrown down a flight of stairs by two security, even through he was pleading with them not to and saying he was gona leave. thats when i left, got too much.
AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGHHHHHHHHH.
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I don't see why anyone's so surprised. Without meaning to be an annoying twat who says "I told you so", well yeah, I could have told you it would end like this. It happened at Aberdeen on a smaller scale not so long ago.
People should be responsible for their own actions. It makes me sick the way Pete lets people down so often, as far as I'm concerned, if he has said he'll play the gig and people have bought tickets, then he's a selfish cock for not turning up (but it's hardly a big shock given his track record). This does not mean it's his fault a load of idiots decided to riot. Each and every one of them is to blame, not Pete, not the Astoria, not the security.
I just feel sorry for the people who were caught up in the violence unwittingly, and of course Pete's bandmates who had their equipment destroyed.
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The most frustrating thing about last night at the Astoria was feeling so powerless. Having no idea what the story behind Peter not showing was, and not knowing if he was okay. Being frontrow, trapped against the barricade as the riot broke out around me.
But you know, the worst thing for me was watching the kids destroy the band's equipment with cans of beer. Drew's basses were completely soaked, but for some reason, Pat's guitar on the other side of the stage hadn't been hit yet. He has this really gorgeous white Fender Jazzmaster, and it was sitting out there just waiting to be destroyed. Security had covered the soundboard and a number of other things to protect them, and I kept calling over every guard who passed by, every photographer, absolutely every person I could possibly find who was on the other side of the barricade to ask them to cover Pat's guitar as well.
They all just laughed, and said the band deserved it for not playing. "The band's not playing because of Peter," I said, distraught. "Pat's guitar shouldn't get destroyed because of something Peter did."
None of them did anything.
This probably sounds silly to you if you don't play guitar, but there's something intensely personal about guitars. Having a guitar that means a lot to you damaged or stolen is so big...there's a huge emotional attachment to them. And that two of the opening acts were sitting on the side of stage, beers in hand, watching with amused detachment as this all went down blew my mind. Some friends they were of the band! Anyone with any amount of concern and sense would've moved or covered those guitars.
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/1935705
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This is very true indeed. It's not as if anybody was "forced" to take part in this riot. It was clearly a personl choice (and a very bad one at that).
Trashing a venue hardly achieves anything - other than highlighting the need for even tighter security (which no doubt will be paid out of prices charged for future gigs). Anyway, the people involved can count themselves lucky that they (this applies to the security guards and rioting "kids" alike) were not charged with anything (if the NME is to be believed) or had to spend the rest of the night in some police cell.
Anyway, as I said it was a matter of personl choice - mine was to leave the venue the minute the cancellation was announced and it was obvious that part of the crowd started to get out of control as I did neither fancy to be caught up in anything like that, nor dragged out by security or getting shoved around by people who have clearly lost it.
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richey: when I say that "he's a fucking crack junkie" I dont put any judgement into those words. I, as you said, just stated the obvious. I dont have any ill feelings towards pete. none. so dont assume that. but if people thought this was obvious why did they then react like they did? people dont seem to realise the severity of pete's condition. that's what I was trying to say.
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Phoebe (angry), Jemma (typist) and Oli (poet) (Login Charsmyheart)
That's not your fucking drumkit.
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December 19 2004, 5:54 PM
Anyone who has any knowledge of Babyshambles gigs knows that there's always a chance that Peter won't show up. I'm not condoning the absence, it was a big disappointment for a lot of people who essentially went to have a good Christmas party.. but I can't help being surprised that people still acted shocked and devastated by it.
I wasn't angry (Oli was a bit disappointed, however) that he didn't show because I had a good night anyway, mainly because the support bands were great (The Noisettes, The IVs, Cazals) and I was with a load of my friends.
The thing that angered me was the riot - and it wasn't just kids onstage, it was fucking adults who should've known better. I can sort of understand why it happened, and knew it was coming, but when it did found it hard to believe all the same.
The thing that makes me most angry is the destruction of the rest of the band's equipment.
Standing outside the venue we watched a man leave with a piece of Gemma's drumkit, a bloody drum, concealed under his coat. Security asked him where he got it and he said he "brought it with him". They fucking let him leave with it, despite people trying to tell them that he'd taken it from the stage.
We saw someone with the drumstool, and argued that they shouldn't take it. They said they had the right to take it since the band didn't play.. Bullshit. As far as I'm aware, the rest of the band showed up and were prepared to play. It's nobody's right to take THEIR equipment when they did nothing wrong.
We saw another girl with a drumstick and asked if it was Gemma's. She said she "wasn't lucky enough" to get Gemma's drumstick and had just "stood there watching history" and boasted how she kicked an amp offstage. WELL DONE. HERE IS A MEDAL.
That's not the sort of "history" I personally want to watch ever again and it's not something that should be celebrated like it's some sort of landmark in music.
The riot made me feel sick and disgusted. We left before we saw any violence from the security, and it wasn't until we got outside and spoke to people that we learnt what had gone on.
Last night gave Babyshambles fans a bad name.. booing for two hours before finding out the band weren't coming on isn't going to do anyone any good. And if Peter HAD been there, which I doubt, I wouldn't blame him for leaving after hearing his so-called fans booing and chucking beer cans at the stage.
If Babyshambles had played, I bet most of the people booing would've quickly changed their chants to "YOU KNOW HOW MUCH YOU MEAN TO ME!!".
P.S. What the hell was with the people chucking things at the Cazals?
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ok I never post here but these riots were pretty childish and stupid. I do understand why the fans were upset and perhaps they were a bit inspired by the aberdeen accident. hopefully there won't be riots everytime pete cancels from now on (and Im sure there will be more times).
so does anyone know why the show was cancelled? I asked the only nice bouncer after the gig why pete didnt show up and he said there were some problems with his girlfriend. I also saw pat trying to come into the venue around 20.00 (maybe he really was stranded in sheffield?)and being thrown out by the security because he didnt have a ticket. after a few "Im in the fucking band!" rants he walked away shouting "well if you dont let me in the whole show has to be cancelled" or something similar.. not really a good start..
and to andrew with the horror show video; I missed the tap n tin show because fo you.. kind of..
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Did any of the guitars get robbed? I feel really sorry for Gemma, people just smashing the hell out of her kit like that, it was uncalled for to go that far. Did anything happens to Pat's guitar?
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when my dad was in his specials days, he couldnt play a gig due to a throat infection and was in hospital. the promoter sued him. maybe if this happened to pete then he'd start turning up to gigs he's agreed to do
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wow your dad is terry hall? did you know neville staples is doing a tour at the moment, playing all the specials stuff? i can remember the specials all outside the limit club in sheffield in various wanky trainers and tennis shoes. seemed odd. then they were going through the queue swapping with people who had doc martens on so they could get in the venue in their dunlop green flash or whatever and swap the shoes back inside. madness it was. well, the specials!
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yeah thats where i saw him. passable show considering its not the original lot. it was a night of nostalgia i suppose. how come you've not got that famous specials at the moonlight club on your bootleg list then? ;-)
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there was a really famous one, recorded at the moonlight club in london. the legend was a portable studio was hidden next door and the feeds from the PA went straight into it, dunno if thats true.
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Whoever you are, I would suggest you take the item off ebay directly, before the complaints that many are sending to ebay at this precise moment in time are read as you are selling stoplen property, which is illegal.
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Last night was terrible. i hate the fact that it has all come to this. a riot for gods sakes. people stealing the bands stuff. a complete lack of respect on both peter and the audiences part.
i joined this libertine bandwagon late, glasto 2003.just talking to helen on msn about this day exactly a year ago when we saw peter at filthys playing the joe strummer tribute night infront of about 50 people.Of course he was on drugs etc, but everyone was hopeful. singing time for heroes. jock reading his poems. underage drinking. talking to peter afterwards. feeling like finally we fitted in somewhere, we were part of something, and as helen says 'feeling like that was the night that we discovered rock n roll. like wed just stumbled across something that wed been looking for'. skipping home.
rhythm factory the next night, arriving late and peter in drag for the christmas party. a shedload of bands. great libertines set. day before christmas eve was it? we just sucked in the atmosphere
of course it all sounds horribly corny now doesnt it? Helen said it was just 'so amazing, drunken, and just different. something outside our little window of experience. it totally changed our outlooks on life'.
a bit of nostalgia. last night made me sad, i mean peter was proabaly on just as many drugs then, but i saw it with no cynisism last year.
i hope everything sorts out. over dramtic i am about a bloomin band i know, but they really do mean something, to my life at least.
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Whipping the crowd, whether an outburst or not and violent as it was, was a successful method of crowd control.
It was quite possibly the only method available that would clear the whole standing area in a few minutes.
It was violent and obviously hurt, but it prevented furthur damages and quite possibly even greater physical harm to a larger quantity of people.
It was in no way morally just, but it can certainly be argued that it was just in practical term, ie it was the only method available to meet an end.
I can see no other way of quickly clearing the room, can you?
I am undecided whether it was a just or unjust move of the bouncer, but he, albeit in the heat of the moment, no doubt evaluated the consequences (no one risks their job and livelyhood so rashly, even an 'inhuman bouncer') and it certainly had the desired effect.
As soon as he whipped the violent crowd, people screamed and everyone ran for the doors. It may not have been an ordered exit like the PA asked for at the very start, but the area was clear in order to pick up the debris.
Every faction was partially to blame and no single faction can take the full blame.
We still do not have a valid, reliable source of information on the reason for the no-show.
Jamie
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If the account of the violence of the bouncer who resorted to whipping people with electric cable is true (and I don't doubt the source), there is no justification whatsoever for his actions or those of any other security people who resorted to pushing people down stairs and so on.
It has become clear that the venue could have closed earlier instead of cynically keeping the bar open and the fans waiting needlessly. I am appalled that the stage was invaded and equipment was trashed but it's easy to incite a riot if you have a large crowd who have been drinking and loyally waiting and waiting and waiting. The cynicism of 'The Astoria' is deplorable.
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When all the smoke is cleared, it's Patrick, Gemma, and Drew who my heart goes out to. I can't bear to think of the lads, and Gemma, there with her family watching on as it all fell to pieces, seeing their equipment trashed and stolen. Peter, absolutely deservedly has one hell of a lot of music to face.
While there were many contributing factors to what happened, in the end, no party is responsible for last night's riot other than the hooligan bastards who incited it in the first place in my humble opinion.
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i think anything the crowd did was justified and i'm happy i didn't spend £100 or so on going although it was close and i would of been severely pissed off and you can expect the crowd to make a bit of a ruckus. not showing at a 200 capacity gig is bad enough but not showing at a 3000 capacity will be the end of him and the only words i can think of are good riddance, there's only so far you can excuse a man.
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Perhaps if half the crowd hadnt been complete twats in the first place doherty wouldve shown, unlikely but maybe. If youre off your face and you see the stage being bottled and hear the crowd booing and shouting 'fuck babyshambles' youre not gonna wanna come on, especially not if youre pete doherty.
I have to say though the people getting hurt and equipment being smashed is crap, watching all those people rush together in complete insanity and lack of control was both scary and amazing.
Maybe im stupid.
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you wont judge why the fucking cunt failed to appear for the biggest show of the four of thems careers in the UK? leaving three of them partially equipmentless and completely heartbroken. i didnt see drew but gemma and patrick were distraught.
whose up for brixton???
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fuck you, i'll say what i want. this isnt his fucking site anyway, he isnt even in the fucking libertines, dont you read the NME?
i'm sure there were plenty of disappointed people had a few choice words for him last night. he's had four expensive, failed rehabs because he'd rather live the life of some fucking spaced out 'genius' in his head than confront the reality of his problems. i dont think he's a cunt as it happens, i just cannot stand by and watch any fucker excuse his non appearance last night because it was simply inexcusable and whats more, it fucked up not only his and his fans but his supposed band mates he proffesses to be so much closer to than he ever was the libs.
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he obviously doesn't think he's a junkie cunt does he. he's just dissapointed, which is completely acceptable when you consider that he saw the way pat and gemma were after the gig.
i dunno what passes as acceptable behaviour to all you indie kids, but what pete did certainly isn't. you lot need to grow up and get a bit more in touch with the world. forget "who" pete is and consider the facts: 3 musicians are about to play the biggest gig of their lives. 1 goes to great lengths to get down from sheffield the same day. 1 has her whole family waiting to see their daughter/sister fulfill a dream. they all wait expectantly for the lead singer, who, despite his drug addictions, and all the problems it causes, manages to receive all the praise for their collective work. 3000 odd people wait for the band they've paid £20 to see take the stage. pete does a no show and the band's equipment gets destroyed. pete loses nothing.
they will all bear the brunt equally for what pete did.
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The shambles new what they were getting into. This kind of 'thier big night was ruined' vibe is bollox. They should show some soul and not support the Pete Doherty roadshow.
IM NOT LYNX MONDAY
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This site does not and never has belonged to Peter Doherty. He posts here. It was part of the old fansite libertines.org - now that doesnt exist someone took it on and kept it going for us. Thats that cleared up.
Right - I went on Thursday night to see babyshambles, the third time this year I had attended a BS / PD gig. The previous night had been well reported by many of the people who have stuck by him through thick and thin, many of whom were distraught to see the state he is in. I wont comment any further, the stuffs on here for all to see, i didnt see it, i cant quote it verbatim so whats the point. So, Thursday. Pete has to be blocked from leaving the stage everytime a song isnt being played. At one point he says 'we're all going for a drink next door, d'yas wanna come?'. i tell you know, he thought he was talking to a room full of people, he didnt even know he was doing a gig. I would stake my life on that. Patrick knew the only way to keep him on that stage was to get the songs going as quickly as possible. It was painful to watch. It was painful because I have deep admiration for the mans work and his past glories. The band carried him that night, as they appear to have done the night before. The more giddy amongst us posted what a great and powerful gig it was, which it sounded, even Petes contributions when the songs were on going but when they weren't it boredered on harrowing.
saturday, I arrived home from the early kick off sheffield united match to see a post on pete's messa...sorry, .org, from Pat, desperate to get to London for the astoria gig. The offer of the backstage pass was thrilling, I dont deny that but I knew i was probably the only person that was going to see that post in time and, without even contemplating the negative possibilities, took Pat down to London. I got paid in petrol money and a backstage pass (I actually took less fuel money after the gig and to be honest, felt bad about taking that but to be fair, I'm not John Paul Getty) - nothing more, nor did I ask for more, I'm simply pointing out the score as was. Pat's a top bloke and we had some very interesting chats about stuff. I tell you now, the enthusiasm there is fucking boundless. Extremely modest to boot, devoid of any descernable ego, he talked at length of the new songs coming through, the general plans for the future and the real gut wrenching quote i feel I can post is "this is the biggest gig of my career so far". The guy was seriously excited. i could pin that comment down to about 7.30pm. Seven and a quarter hours later, i was sat in the production office in the Astoria, having passed a very upset gemma and family on the stairs, with the poor fucker. "this is the worst fucking night of my life", he said. nothing more on the subject. he was even fucking apologising that it had all gone tits up, christ I couldve wept, seriously.
Now you paint it any way you want but there is only one person at the root of this carnage. i dont regret calling him a cunt in the heat of the moment when a posted earlier. i saw the fucking carnage. i stood there and waited and waited and waited - for free admission, yes, if you call an otherwise unneccessary 350 mile round trip 'free'. i saw gemma and her family, i saw many innocent young kids, some shell shocked, some crying and hugging, probably more overwhelmed than i was by the whole thing and i was pretty fucking shocked by it. however inexcusable any of those peoples actions were - add them all up and you might just equal the amount in terms of pete's inexcusability. because arranging a tour and fucking up, then arranging the gig of their lives to date (and i'll tell you something else for nothing as well, i have played a co-headline sell out at the astoria - the biggest indoor gig in britain I have ever played and its not something to be sniffed at) - and then simply just not fucking turn up. theres rumours of him being there and leaving, or of them knowing he wasnt coming by 1am. i dont particularly believe either PERSONALLY - other people may well know different - i just know that the amount of access i had backstage, i am certain i would have heard something first hand from somebody.
so far nothing has been posted as to his whereabouts or why he didnt show up. its going to have to be a very fucking good excuse to get me to walk over the threshold of a babyshambles gig again, even if it was in my fucking house.
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Fair dues. Im not trying to start a big argument or anything. I see your points (no need for bitchy little comments) but most people have come on this site because Pete posts on it and I think its wrong that you attack him so visciously then (probably) advertise your gigs to a fanbase he worked hard to create.
I dont really know what to make of all this but Pete obviously cant tour at the moment and everyone involved in the pete doherty touring process is as much to blame as he is.
IM NOT LYNX MONDAY
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I know I got a bit carried away, sometimes its easy to use words willy-nilly like cunt. I'm still wrapped up in the emotions of last night, it wasnt a pretty sight and a very disappointing end to what for me was a bit of an adventure. i didnt even get started on some of the stuff, including sitting outside the fucking astoria in the pouring rain waiting for the AA when my van broke down! I then had to drive the bastard thing round to charge up the battery - i got a parking space and into the astoria five minutes after the last support finished, so I had plenty of issues with the whole day and night in general (thats the tip of the iceberg). Anyway, I havent even mentioned my band for ages - i push gigs, and why not I'm not the first or the last, neither am i the first or the last to criticise Pete. A lot of my vented spleen at the guy is out of frustration at the state he's in. Its a terrible terrible waste but I DONT THINK ME NOT BLAMING HIM FOR HIS NO-SHOW is gonna make any difference (noticed caps but not shouting cant be fucked to type it all again).
I dont think its fair to have a go at me for cross promoting my band to an established place like this. I tell you something Cornal, theres people who promote their bands and made their names out of this little community that have done far worse things against Pete than call him a cunt for dipping out on a gig.
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Does anyone else just want to cry over all this? I've just finally got home from London and feel utterly empty...
What I saw last night was the most depressing and disgusting behaviour and it made me wonder why all those people had gone in the first place - just for a chance kick off and throw full cans of beer at (admittedtly very crap) support bands long before we realised he wasn't coming?
I travelled for 10 hours over the weekend for this gig and spent well over £100, but I did it knowing that there was a real chance that Pete might not show, and was prepared for that. What I didn't realise was that I would witness such appalling Chav/Townie saturday night aggression, and that I would end up feeling genuinely scared for my own safety and that of my friends as we tried to leave the venue.
I wouldn't attempt to defend Pete, but I just feel so sorry for him, the rest of the band and the genuine fans who were let down. It's so sad...
PS I'M NOT keep-it-sweet!!!!
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This is something that I have put in my Livejournal. I don't care who reads this and who sees this. I know that a lot of people are feeling like this right now. I don't care who I offend.
~~~
I don't care if you are Peter FUCKING Doherty. I don't care if you still have people who adore you. I don't care if you have the whole of East fucking London behind you. Whatever happened last night, it's gone too far. I wouldn't be too surprised if you died before the New Year. It's one thing leaving the band that helped to make you (im)famous, but fucking missing gigs on your tour of your new band that is where you wanna be, or whatever the fuck Babyshambles are supposed to be, is just too much. It's not the first time it happened and I'm sure that it's not going to be the last. It's fucking gone too far. I know you are never going to see this, but my God, I really wish that you could. I supported you through everything this year and hoped that you would get better. But this week has been a defining week for you. You've missed gigs and caused a riot in which KIDS have been harmed. I don't care what fucking .org say, or fucking heyrichey because I think, to be honest, that the man is delluded and wants to support you through everything just so he can cling to the "scene". You have crossed the line. I don't ever plan on going to see Babyshambles now. Ever. This has just ruined whatever "magic" there was left around you. I don't think you are some genius. You are a fucking junkie and I hope that something really horrible happens to you to wake you up out of this bubble that you seem to be in.
Fuck you, Doherty.
Just to let this be known...there is no excuse for the way that the security guards acted last night, or indeed, in the stealing of drumkits, guitars etc. But you have to figure out where the source of all the madness was..think about it, and no matter how much you try to deny it, it was Peter.
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Has anybody thought about the possibility of this being the plan. Maybe in Peter's subconcious. Maybe his subconcious is telling him, "You don't want to be this huge. You want your music to be appreciated, not to sell records because you happen to be 'in' this year. This fame is not the true way. Its time to put a spanner in the works."
This voice may be saying "Make Babyshambles really unpopular before you (Peter) are about to become Paul McCartney". It could only be a matter of months, and so... cut off Pete's icon ascent. Make people brush him aside and go for the next thing.
Then, he can reflect, on what his mission is - create music, create poetry.
So he can cut down the force that seems to have taken a life of its own, his fame, and wash away the bullshit that can attatch itself - the cligners on, the people that dont really appreciate the music, the music honchos hyping up his importance or whatever.
Maybe Mr Doherty feels the people that see his artistic development, they are the ones who are true to him, who appreciate his art, the ones he really wants to please.
If Peter is no longer hugely popular, and derided by many, he may be be able to play intimate gigs without people screaming for his touch anymore.
He can get back to that place. Pete Doherty - musician. Not 'Pete Doherty Iocn TRADEMARK'.
who knows.
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Thats just romanticising one person letting 3000 fucking people down. remember the Gina Langland on Alan Partridge.............I'm really looking forward to tonight I just never realised I had so many fans! "WELL WHY DID YOU BOOK EARLS COURT THEN, ITS MASSIVE!"
why book the gig at the astoria in the first place if he wants to write in old excercise books and play in his flat? simple question.
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What the fuck? Why pick on me?? You don't even know me.
I started this bleeding thread! I'm as dissapointed as anyone, not to mention the fact I went to that gig even though I've been struck down with terrible flu the past week or so, I spent the two hours waiting for Babyshambles coughing, sneezing and feeling half dead sitting on the shitty Astoria balcony floor.
I agree with all the Doherty stuff but you can fuck right off girl, whoever the hell you are.
And I'd get that pathetic tourettes sorted out if I were you.
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WHEN IS THIS SATELITE-DISH-HEADED WANKER GOING TO WISE THE FUCK UP???
HE IS NOT WELL IN THE FUCKING HEAD AND I DONT THINK ITS EVEN DOWN TO DRUGS.
HE'S A FUCKING DIGRACE TO OUR FUCKING SOCIETY AND HE NEEDS SHOOTING IF YOU ASK ME.
OR BEHEADING.
ALTHOUGH YOU'D BE HARD PUSHED TO FIND A SWORD BIG ENOUGH. NOT ONLY IS HIS HEAD THE SAME SIZE AS JUPITER, BUT THE FUCKING NECK ON THAT LITTLE CUNT IS UNBELIEVABLE.
LET'S HUNT THE LITTLE FUCKER DOWN.
I'M STARTING A PETITION.
KILL PETE LIBERTINE. (COS THAT IS HIS NAME REALLY)
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I have been on the go since yesterday morning honey. that last comment was a joke though, dear x. i am still very highly charged by it all, one of the weirdest, strangest, heaviest night of my life! i dont understand why people are taking such massive offence at my comments and not others though? hard hitting but lucid would be a fair description, rather than abuse or blind, rose tinted support, which seems of make up most of the rest.
i slagged pete off because he didnt show. i didnt travel all the way down there to the gig because i hate him, though, did i?
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So, just read everything in this thread (and all of 20 minutes it took me as well) after also reading the NME report on the Astoria gig (of lack of it). I dont actually post here, but I felt inclined to tonight.
Pete Doherty has run out of chances, run out of places to run to, run out of excuses. As a direct consequence of his actions:
- 3000 people were left furious, heartbroken or both.
- 3 musicians who have behaved impeccably and deserved one of the most special nights of their lives were betrayed and distraught.
- Young fans of his band were beaten away with fucking electrical cords
- Thousands of pounds worth of damage was caused to equipment and the venue in general
No, Pete can not be blamed for the way the crowd reacted, that is their fault, and partly the Astoria management's fault. But none of it would have happened if he had played.
Was he ill? Was someone he knew dying? No. He is just a silly, extremely selfish child who has been led to believe he can do whatever he wants by idiot fans who applaud everything he does. Pete has let down everyone who has ever loved The Libertines or Babyshambles. He acted like a utter prick. If there's an excuse, I'd love to hear it.
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Yeah, Sazzaa, learn how to use caps lock and we might listen to you. Although there again, not when you're talking such complete and utter shit. "KILL PETE LIBERTINE" - what sort of crap is that? Whatever the reason for the no-show, your anger is over the top. Pete may need help, but YOU DO TOO (put it in caps to make it easy for you to understand).
As for the riot simply blaming Peter is too simplistic. There was a no show, maybe or maybe not that was his fault. Does this justify chucking beer cans? Or trashing equipment? Or security whipping people? I don't think so. Get real. He's not the messiah, he never was. He's not infallible, he makes mistakes like the rest of us. Maybe last night was one of them. Maybe not. Point is, when he's on form he makes great music. I can't blame people for being upset at a wasted evening, but show some proportion. No one thought "I know I'll mess up your evening, just for a laugh". IF, if, the man couldn't play because he was so off his face then he needs help, constructive criticism. Or didn't you mean it when you shouted his name at all those gigs before?
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I normally scoff at psychobabble but, reading this entire thread, I'm reminded of all that crap about the stages of grief. It's like the Libs/Pete fandom finally emerged from a protracted "denial stage" and jumped into the "anger" bit with a vengeance. I think that's what happened at the Astoria: after months, if not years, of telling themselves that Pete was getting better, that things would work themselves out, etc., the events of the last few days finally forced people to face reality and, well, people get angry when confronted with a reality they don't like. It wasn't just Pete fucking up in Blackpool and Liverpool or pulling a no-show last night (which, really, couldn't have come as THAT much of a surprise to anyone); it was months of hope and denial and wishful thinking and taking Pete's side against Carl and all the naysayers suddenly looking like a waste of time and energy. Not that this excuses the rioting but it does make it understandable, I think.
So, what's next? Depression and acceptance or some such shit, if I recall correctly (I know I'm missing one or two but can't be bothered to look it up). Some are already there (while some seem to still be in denial). What this means, I suspect, is that, if things continue as they are, Pete's fans will slowly give up on him and move on; and maybe that's what it'll take for him to finally face reality too and sort himself out. What doesn't quite bear thinking about is that even THAT may be a best case scenario.
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I spent the weekend scuba diving off an island in the Pacific. Twenty seven degrees celsius in the water and I think I got a bit sunburnt too. I saw seahorses, ghostpipe fish, blue eels, garden eels, giant clams, moorish idols, crown-of-thorns starfish, the tiniest of tiny crabs and god knows what else. Plus I got absolutely bladdered on the Saturday night and fell asleep listening to crickets sing in harmony to the tide as it brushed gently against the beach just feet away from the bamboo hut I was staying in.
Sorry to hear about this gig malarkey. Must be awful.
__________________________________________________________________________
"I live my life like a French movie, where everyone is cool and no attachments are made"
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oh, and as for the astoria palava. maybe nows the time for everybody to stop idolising a crackhead smackrat and start understanding the fine line that the Doch seems walking upon.
although the east london crack dealers probably be too happy about people not wanting to be like Pete anymore......
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in went to see Thee Unstrung a few weeks ago and Bailey (aka a wannabe PD) was completely off his little face and in my opinion played like shite. It didn't make the NME, I didn't get my five quid back and unfortunately there was no riot.
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but, i hear the masses cry "he's not pathetic, he's the messiah, and cracks cool, its not dangerous"
these foolish kids won't be saying that when their on their knees round the back of Kings Cross station sucking off a 65 yr old pervert so that he'll give them a fiver towards a bag of bone or brown.
and where will PD be then ? playing bedroom gigs for a bunch of ghost faced aids ridden crackhead boys and smackrat girls ?
i fucking doubt it.
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what i find interesting is how it's all "babyshambles are about the experience and not the music" when there's no-shows and trouble anywhere else (and aberdeen in particular comes to mind) but when it's in london suddenly it's a different thing. why wasn't the final straw at brighton and the zanzi last week? why wasn't it aberdeen a couple of months back? ah well.
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And Pete will still keep playing when he can be arsed/needs the cash.
And he will never say sorry for things like last night, some bull shit excuse will be touted around and anyone that chooses to question him will be labelled as a 'wanker' or 'get off Pete's case, you don't know him'.
If i'd been at last night's gig, I would have been in the mood to smash something up as well.
P.S. People on the stage are just as much to blame as the security. If your going to try and get up on the stage and fuck about , then you run the risk of a heavy handed/terrfified security guard giving you a slap.
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Having bands like the Towers of London who continually project an image of violence and aggression, without backing it with tunes, repeatedly on the bill, doesn't help matters.
I've never been in a riot (well, not a proper one), though if I had to see ToL again, for the *fourth* time, god knows what I'd do.
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Mayer, if you ever have to 'endure' one of their gigs again, I know a particularly good 'commune' where you can retreat to until all memory of them has faded from your soul.
Towers Of London make me want to push cyclists over in heavy traffic.
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Bobbydazzla - Crikey! You must be psychic - back in the city now and... just seen a load of ladyboys. Mind you, I'm worried about my mucker who couldn't tell what they were. He even thought one of 'em was quite attractive - and "from behind" too. He wouldn't believe me when I told him they weren't young ladeez. And he's flying off to Thailand for a week this Friday. I worry for him, I really do.
TomBones........ I'll be yo'daddy - got any sisters?..
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i've seen those massive islander ladyboys with my own eyes.
they are quite frightening.
although they are only ladyboys cos its tradition to bring up the 5th boy of the family as a girl in order to help the mum with the dishes and cleaning etc.
so they don't neccesarily want to bum the living daylights out of other men.
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Buttmonkey my dear friend! Long time no hear. Send us an email as I can't find the ones you gave me before you left. Glad to hear you're in the land of smiles. I just got back, off to New York in two days. Let me know if you're work takes you stateside, I'll be there for a while. Hope you are well, Tim.
www.timarnold.net
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Well, i admit it, I was one of the first ones on stage, but my aim was to start a mess about not a riot. I feel too sorry for Gemma and the others. But I'm getting my money back from seetickets.com so its not so bad for me, but I'm still majorly pissed of with Mr Doherty as the tickets were xmas presents for my girlfriend and mates.
Please don't wish harm upon Peter, wish him well. Maybe (it's been said too many times before, i know) this will make him get himself sorted. If the other shambles leave him, I won't be surprised, they deserve someone better.
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cunt. the stage is a place for people with some sort of talent. not teenage pricks trying to impress their skinny, pasty, rough birds.
fuck this indie bollocks. i got into it slightly through the libs and shambles, but never got far enough into it to listen to any bands other than libs/shambles/pete, the paddingtons and the chineapples. you're all (well, most) fucking poseur cunts. i've had it with this "scene".
if that was a punk gig the cunts who got on the stage would have been slapped down by anyone there who actually had a fucking clue. actually i doubt if anyone would have got on the stage cos any punk band would have played, no matter how fucked they were, and been thankful for the opportunity. someone needs to reconnect pete's feet with the ground. don't say "oh it's the drugs, it's not his fault" cos that's bollocks. it's his mental problems, that were there before the drugs, and his own arrogance (caused in part by the hanger-ons), that's doing it. i know more than a few well established punk bands who are just as hooked on the gear as pete but still manage to work a trade, usually doing 7 days a week, and still put on a fucking blinding show when they can somehow manage to get a gig in this next-bandwagon-to-jump-on obsessed town.
they do it because they love it. they never even make back what they put into it, no matter how many records they sell, and they have 100 times more of my respect than pete has now. pete may be more talented, but that doesn't stop him being a prick. that boy needs a slap, and so do half of you.
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well said. I want to blame sumthing else but that wuld just be scapegoating. Yes its Pete's fault and he may be on drugs but you cant blame the drugs, otherwise you might just aswell blame the dealer he got them from or the money he earned to buy it. People are reading to far into it because they want to protect Peter's reputation. I payed £75 for 2 tickets as a birthday present to a friend. I cant get a refund because we bought them on Ebay (yeah wateva, illegal my ass). The problem is there are so many other bands out there which you know will definately turn up 2 gigs that people will stop bothering to take the risk with Peter. Another thing is he hasnt even addressed the situation. An apology from Peter to his fans would definately calm some of the anger, the fact that he seems not to even be bothered upsets me more. Thanks man..
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Hi
I am pretty new to Pete etc, and I was so excited to see him play as this would have been my first time, huh, should also be my last time, but I love his music so much probably stupidly try and see him again.
I agree with the other messages, if management knew Pete wasn't coming on they should have told us. I never want to stand again for 21/2 hours wtg for a 'no show'. I was also out of pocket like many of you, having booked a hotel for the night as I could not have got home.
On the plus side, the support acts were brilliant, which made my night half okay, could someone tell me who they were, so I can look out for them in future.
I am passed my anger stage with Pete now, I just feel sadness and pity for him.
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