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Sir Bugsy's Report

February 24 2004 at 3:22 PM
Griselda  (no login)
from IP address

Response to Epic Thirty-eight: Slavetrader Mayan ECC - Reports and Discussion

Reposted from here to make sure it doesn't get lost!



This was my first attempt at playing an Epic game. What a challenge and what an experience. While I thought some of the early issues through during some pre-game planning, I didn’t think far enough into the game. Those errors will be discussed in the report.

My initial plan was to build enough warriors to effectively meet all the civs, race to warrior code, build an army of Javelin Throwers, and prosecute a series of short wars for enslaved workers and pointy stick research. An army of JTs would be critical to any expansion since an enslaved worker was needed for each new city. What I didn’t consider in my early planning was the limited window of effective JT use. Once they were fighting pikes, their loss rate was high, and after Invention, they couldn’t be built.

I moved the worker one tile east, and decided the extra commerce from the river tiles would be worth the loss of a turn’s productivity. I moved the settler one tile east and settled in 3950 BC. I started researching Warrior code at max.

In 3250 BC, just as our scientists announced the learning of the Warrior Code, a Dutch Warrior strolled by our worker. He had a target painted on his chest, so we knew with whom our first war would be. We proceeded to meet the rest of the world in a timely fashion: Carthaginians (3100 BC), Germans (2850 BC), Chinese (2670 BC), and finally Romans (2110 BC).

I made the error of researching Iron Working myself. I got it the same turn as everyone but the Dutch (2390 BC). I would have been much better off going minimum science and buying it. I did get the Alphabet from Willie for IW, but it was a weak consolation price. That would be the last tech I would self-research.

I started the first and only Mayan-Dutch war in 1525 BC. On the next turn we got our first JT victory, an enslaved worker and of course our Golden Age began. A fairly worthless one-city, despotism GA, but everyone is going to have one. We raze the Dutch city. The war is short, enslave another worker, and sign a peace treaty for CB & Writing in 1400 BC.

Here’s where I made my first major mistake. I underestimated the strength of the Netherlands’ agricultural trait. Their number of cities literally exploded. Within two turns of the peace treaty, the razed city was replaced. Within ten turns I was quickly running out of space on the western frontier.

I built Copan just to the north of Chichen (1300 BC) and Palenque to the south (1025 BC). I was now out of enslaved workers and my western frontier was all orange.

In hindsight, I should have gone to war with a larger force, gathered a great many more enslaved workers, and I should have prosecuted the Dutch war until their civilization was crippled. By the time the 20-turn peace treaty had expired, the Dutch were the world’s strongest civ, and they were beyond my reach.

Desperately, needing more enslaved workers, I built my army again and in 670 BC, the world’s only Sino-Mayan War began. Still in the short quick war mode, I razed two Chinese cities (Hangchow and Chengdu), got four enslaved workers and in 590 BC signed a peace treaty and got CoL, Lit, MM, Philosophy, and Mysticism for 150G.

In 470 BC, I built Tikal and Yaxchilán, but I can see the error of my ways and realize I quickly need more enslaved workers. The next turn begins the only Carthaginian-Maya War. The Carthaginians are coming with NuMes and the JT just doesn’t stack up well. I was using swords to kill or wound the NuMes and hope the JTs could win against weaker units. I ended up destroying four cities and enslaving four additional workers. Two cities were founded during the war, Bonampak in 350 BC and Lagartero in 230 BC. That same year a peace treaty was signed with Hannibal and I got Currency, Construction, and Polytheism in deal for 130G. That put the weak Mayan Empire into the Middle Ages.

In 170BC, the Dutch demanded Ivory, and due to the fact that most of my military forces were still to the east, I reluctantly gave in. In hindsight I would like to say that I made a wise decision, but mostly it was dumb luck. I soon saw knights trotting around inside the Dutch frontier. If I had told William where to stick his demand, I’m pretty sure he would have wiped out most of my cities, and the game would have ended a lot sooner.

I eventually brought two extra ivory sources on line and on a regular 10 turn basis, used the luxuries in a deal to purchase a tech. Of course, every ten turns is not enough to maintain an Emperor tech pace so I rapidly fell further and further behind. Overall, I was able to gather enough cash to make a teach deal approximately every six turns.

Now I faced several dilemmas. First, no horses (the Germans had aced me out of the horses to the north on the coast, and second, rapidly decreasing space for more cities. I decided to just start cramming in cities for the culture, commerce, productivity. I found Quiriguá in 110 BC and wedge Calakmul in between two Chinese cities in 70 AD. The folly of that move was dramatically pointed out in 260 AD as Calakmul flipped to the Chinese.

In 310 AD, I purchased Republic from the Dutch, revolted and drew 6 turns of Anarchy. By now everyone was making regular demands of me. For example in 320 AD, Bismark demanded my entire treasury, a total of 7G. The same year, Lazapa was built as a fishing village on the southern coast.

Finally in 360 AD the Mayan Republic was formed.

In 440 AD, Caesar demanded Ivory from me. Knowing I needed more enslaved workers, that he was relatively far away, that I needed the ivory for a tech deal and feeling that I could fight him at least to a draw, I told him to stuff it and we were at war. I signed an ROP with Mao to use his roads in the war, which saved several wounded units.

In 460 AD I founded my last city until I could get more enslaved workers, Kaminaljuyú.

The First Roman-Mayan war produced a total of four enslaved workers, my first MGL (used for an army=>victory=>started building the Heroic Epic. I signed a peace treaty in 530 AD and got Engineering for 29 gpt.

In 580 AD, Piedras Negras was crammed in the jungle to the north, and in 600 AD I cut a horse deal with Bismark for 11gpt.

In 620 AD, Mao starts bringing most of his army into my lands. As a braced for a sneak attack we waltzed right by and attacked the Dutch in 660 AD. In a weed move, Mao doesn’t renew our ROP in 640 AD and his offensive is dramatically slowed down. I am hoping for a similar situation that Sirian had in one of his write ups. If the Chinese can raze a few Dutch cities, I have three settlers and the associated enslaved workers ready to poach the cleared land. I watch as wave after wave of cavalry cross the Mayan Republic and wave after wave is destroyed.

In every aspect of the game I am far behind, I am watching a cavalry war, the Roman’s start building Newton’s, and in 710 AD the Dutch workers are wearing industrial age clothes.

In an incredibly brilliant move, the Dutch declared war on the Germans in 670 AD, and I start to realize exactly how Belgium felt in 1940. Then China pulled the Carthaginians. In 720 AD, Bismark asked me to ally with him against the Dutch. Let’s see I can count at least 17 Dutch cavs in my lands just by looking around the negotiating table. Here’s my lunch money, $10, be a nice bully and go away.

By 750 AD Caesar is also wearing his industrial age garb.

In 810 AD, the Dutch and the Germans signed a peace treaty, and Rome declared war on the Germans. I felt I might get caught back up as long as everyone was at war. In 840 AD, the Chinese and Dutch signed a peace treaty. So there won’t be any poaching for Bugsy. In 880 AD, I founded Uaxactún and in 910 AD founded Cuello. Both were crammed into really lousy locations.

The Romans pull the Chinese into their war with Germany and 1120 AD saw the Germans breathe their last. I made an aggressive settle in 1160 AD with Tulúm and my last enslaved worker. Rome starts hammering on Carthage and in 1295 AD, Hannibal is reduced to a settler in a boat.

In 1335 AD, I finally got to the Industrial Age.

In 1480 AD, the Dutch start pouring over the frontier, and I brace for a sneak attack. In 1490 AD, the Second Sino-Dutch War begins. The Chinese have bombers and tanks. Dutch have flak. Wishing I hadn’t used my last enslaved worker, I watch as the Chinese start to gain the upper hand. I started thinking that I could jump in and grab some enslaved workers and poach some land.

Suddenly in 1515 AD, the Romans declared war on me. They brought two SODs, one with 32 cavs, the other with 21 foot soldiers of various shapes and sizes. I allied with Mao against the Romans, and he helps out by destroying about half of Caesar’s forces. However, in a brilliantly executed campaign, Caesar captured five of my cities. The close spacing allowed him to jump from city to city. The next turn I captured one back and the Chinese captured two of them back.

I lost another city in 1530 AD, and that same year the Romans landed a fairly impressive amphibious force of 8 cavs. The next turn I lost an additional three cities.
During the next three turns I lose one city, but the Chinese are spanking the Romans and the Dutch. Rome is gassed and my losses slow to a trickle. In 1580 AD, the foolish Carthaginians allied with the Chinese against the Dutch. The next turn, Hannibal’s settle boat is sunk and Carthage is destroyed. Maybe I can hold out and at least be alive at the end of the game.

In 1630 AD, China makes peace with Rome. I dial up Rome, and Caesar will give me peace for everything I have. No thanks, I can stand up to you a little longer. The next year I lose a city and I’m down to two. In 1640 AD, a JT enslaved a cavalryman and in 1660 AD, my JT army enslaved an infantryman. A few more enslavements and maybe I can resurrect my empire. The former Dutch empire is now a wasteland of ruins. The next turn I lose my second city, with nothing left to fight with, I sue for peace and give Caesar everything I have… &G.

By 1680 AD, the Dutch are reduced to a settler in a boat. In 1705 AD, the Chinese start the UN, and in 1715 the Dutch are destroyed. 1754 AD sees the completion of the UN. If Mao calls for a vote, I’ll abstain, but he declines. In 1758 AD, China declared war on Rome. Caesar wants me to join in on his fun, but I tell him I’ll pass. In 1760 AD, went out and bought Mao’s world map for just about my entire economy, just so I could watch the progress of the war. In 1792 AD, Rome is destroyed. All Mao has to do it launch an attack and my little military force would quickly be destroyed, but I get a reprieve and the next year I suffer an embarrassing domination defeat. Final numbers in 1794 AD: China 4305, Maya 656.

Thanks for an interesting and challenging game,


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  1. Ouch - Charis on Feb 24, 2004, 10:25 PM
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