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  • Doh
      • Charis (no login)
      Posted Feb 25, 2004 10:22 AM

      I'm quite sorry your return to Conquests met with such a horrible disappointment. I have to imagine that a big factor of the severity of the disappointment was that is was like a new rule you didn't know about, and a lottery one at that, foisted upon you mid-game. Had a PtW MGL led to the AI getting a wonder it would have barely raised an eyebrow with you.

      I agree fully, that SGL's are one of the most senseless additions to C3C. A player or AI consistently reaching a new tech first already (by virtue of monopoly) has an advantage getting wonders. It's a "random runaway" factor - a combination of two evils. At least an MGL could help a tech trailer to get a needed wonder to keep him in the game - and an AI warring to much as to rake in MGL's would knock themselves right out of the tech race - so the bonus was self-limiting.

      Would it help you to know that in the current beta, scientific leaders are now an option? The issue was raised, and heard. (Do I dare mention, btw, that there's still a bug where an SGL doesn't 'really' give an age of science, just appears to, with no speedup?!) SGL for age of science is conceptually interesting, but it's still of the 'random runaway' vareity, lavishing goodies on those who need it least. (ie the chance of winning the lottery goes up with your income!!)

      There is in my mind a bigger problem in C3C, though I'm surprised to see almost everyone responding to my comments thinks it's a positive change -- players and AI alike who gain a lead are in C3C far more likely than ever before (since Civ 1) to 'runaway'. We've seen it in over a half-dozen SG games now, on both sides. We've cruised to 1 full age+ tech lead wins on Demigod, and we've lost 1-full-age losses also on DG where we had a strong base, took over our whole hemisphere, and had the agri trait!? One AI pulled ahead of all of us, other AI and humans and was absolutely unstoppable. There's a war weariness bug that is either the cause, or a multiplier of the problem, such that it's impossible for the most warmongering or beat-up AI to be kicked out of Democracy or Republic. Folks who like this change say "but you want more challenge, Charis, it's a good thing that an AI that takes over its continent to be able to whoop you, on sub-deity level." That misses the point - it's not about challenge, but balance. A way-too-large fraction of games are blowout wins (zzz) or blowout losses (zzz/grrr). The great catch-up tooth-and-nail games of the past are gone, unless you rely on broken-beyond-belief lethal air bombardment. Why do I even mention this? Because if even you think increased runaways are an improvement, I'll have to rethink my minority opinion :P
      Anyway, I'm trying to make these and others issues known and although which fraction of ideas is heard by the developers, they are continuing to listen and improve the game.

      Back to the SGL issue - over all the games mentioned here I don't see SGL's making the slightest bit of difference. (OTOH, have you grasped yet just how UBER armies have become? If not, read some of the threads in this Epic :P Any ideas for a solution? I'm thinking blitz has to go or be limited to 2 attacks. The +1 movement is brilliant, imho, although it could stand a cap of 3)

      I hope you stick with C3C, although I really do understand the nature and pain of the issues you raise. 8-\

      Peace,
      Charis
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