If you are going to nopt hear me out and think my thesis is absurd and be close-minded about it just leave now...you obviously don't like contraversy so why are you on this board. In my eyes, the word of Jesus and Christianity has many socialist values. I'm of course referring to early Christianity (Jesus to 100/150 years after his death), not the Dogmatic Christianity of the current organized state. Whether you believe Jesus walked this Earth or not is not really the point. The point is what is said about him as a man and what is said about his actions. He was peaceful and pacifist. Turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor. Concern for the weak, disenfranchised, and poor. He spoke out against the Religious regime that was in place at the time for its hypocracy, greediness, and materialism. Early churches following his death were run by the entire community of its location and all wer equal in the church, men, women, poor and rich. This is how its was practiced in the century following his death, but as we all now, it morphed into the state that it is in today. I have not heard or seen a Christian Chucrh today as it existed in its early state. Many Christians today who worshipp the things and values that Jesus practiced and did is Socialist in nature and they dont even realize it. I say that Christian Churches go back to what they originally were, socialist. Please IM me if you want to talk...Clashstrumr72

Have you ever read "Crises In European History", by Gustav Bang? It has a chapter on "The Rise Of Christianity." You can check it out at http://www.slp.org/pdf/others/crises_eh.pdf. I think you'll like it.

I'm convinced communism can't work unless it's combined with a new and better understanding of the Bible. Check out the comment, pasted below, I made this morning to a blog at http://memetherapy.net/06/paul-hartzog-on-panarchy.

In his book "The Revolution of Hope: Toward A Humanized Technology" (1968), Erich Fromm, a well known psychoanalyst and social philosopher, recognized the need for “the emergence of new forms of psychospiritual orientation and devotion, which are equivalents of the religious systems of the past” as necessary to overcome the weaknesses in man's character and the dehumanizing aspects of our modern industrial society. He also recognized the need for a "reverence for life" concept to be embedded in the new religious system.


Comment by william
September 5, 2006 @ 9:59 am

Give the guy a break “Oh good grief.” There’s nothing to say we can’t come up with a new, more advanced model of communism that’ll work. How many attempts did it take for man to learn how to fly? Leonardo da Vinci had flying machines on the drawing boards way back in the 1500s. What other hope do we have? I say put the world in the hands of the socialist parties with a new and better understanding of the Bible to back it up and to replace the false religions of today that are making a mess of the world right along with capitalism and misguided science.

And don’t be so greedy all the time. Learn to share once in awhile. Jesus said: “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” Luke 12:15.

I'm inclined to agree (long message follows - sorry. I'd really welcome feedback, though. Please read all of it first, though; you might agree with some bits...).

The problem with capitalist materialism (increasingly so) is that the whole system works by instilling a bourgeois attitude into the masses: making "the consumer" greedy and jealous simply maximizes sales. Never mind the misery and envy that is suffered as people (particularly teenagers, at a vulnerable point anyway, who are now indoctrinated into consumerism as children) struggle to keep up with the latest fashions etc.. The current system revolves around want, not satisfaction. The impact of inequality is thus intensified, and inequality itself maintained and increased, as I will explain.

Marx stated: "[religion] is the opium of the people". It is true that religion has been misused in the past to fool the people from taking what is rightfully theirs, through the association of the state with the church.

However, in the twenty-first century it seems to me that bourgeois materialism is fulfilling this role more effectively that religion has for centuries, eroding the solidarity of the working class, replacing the urge to struggle for a just society with an obsession with personal prestige and replacing reality with celebrity and make-believe. The remaining dissatisfaction is dealt with by material indulgence such as binge drinking and "retail therapy". (And yet more money spent, too!)

Marx argued that religion created "the fantasy of a supernatural world where all sorrows ease". Now, materialism and much of popular culture is the new opiate. The difference is that whereas religion (theoretically) includes as a central tenet a respect for the rest of humanity, its replacement lacks even such a basic constraint. It is always easiest to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and so I feel that there is a danger that market forces will drive us towards savagery. Indeed, I opine that the encouragement of unrestrained egotism, combined with the genuine misery of perceived inferiority, is responsible for the increase in sick, "hedonistic" crime and psychopathy. It is arguably more unhealthy than the problems caused by repressive religion.

Governments and right-wingers (including the Blairites) are trying to combat this deterioration by strengthening the state and reducing the rights of the individual. This does not address the root of the problem, and has been the stumbling block of communism, too. The need is for a genuine, strong, lasting fellowship among the people themselves ; a genuine sense of non-exclusive global community. How can this be achieved in an individualist, capitalist, bourgeois meritocracy/oligarchy which destroys commun ity?

Sadly, the people have lost faith in their collective will and are preoccupied with immediate material gratification. It is not easy to shift the mass of human awareness from its present depth of apathy, greed and despairing envy. Perhaps a tool is needed. A moderate, inclusive, functional, socialist religion; one that recognises that to overcome capitalism and dysfunctional materialism (not just the effects of it), there is no need for terrorism or for harsh laws - just a reawakening of the people and the building of a just, caring, communal outlook.