Over the past few months as I've tried to explain my beliefs I've been bombarded by posts about countries that I simply do not support. I've gone into this issue before, but I've decided to go into a more detailed explanation of how the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. are not/were not communist or socialist, so whatever they do has nothing to do with me.
Communism is a society where the people have a very direct participation in the running of the nation. The buisinesses would be democratically controlled by the people, and their representatives would be recallable immiedietely instead of having to wait for them to serve out their terms. The aforementioned countries, however, have neither of these features. The people have no say in how the buisinesses are run, and they have no say in who runs the country. All of the buisinesses are owned by the state, hence it would be correct to say these countries are under state capitalism.
Here's some quotes from Marx that I feel back up the idea that the state capitalist countries were not true to communist ideals.

“We are not among those socialists who are out to destroy personal liberty, who wish to turn the world into one huge barrack or into a gigantic workhouse… We have no desire to exchange liberty for equality. We are convinced that in no social order will be freedom assured as in a society based upon communal ownership”.

“Man’s self-esteem, freedom, must be awakened once more in the heart of these men. Only this feeling, which disappeared from the world with the Greeks…can once more transform society into a fellowship of men working for their highest purposes, a democratic state.”---Karl Marx, A Correspondence of 1843

“Freedom consists in converting the state from an organ superimposed upon society into one completely subordinated to it.”--- Karl Marx, Critique of the Gotha Program


"Democracy is the road to socialism."

"In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality."


"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them."

"The worker of the world has nothing to lose, but their chains, workers of the world unite."

Do these sound like the words of a man who believed in a brutal dictatorship? I think they reflect the words of a man committed to a very pure type of democracy, I think they reflect the words of a man who would be sickened by what is being done in countries like China or what was done in the USSR in his name.
But of course a person could put forward an argument to all this, 'even if communists do not want a horrific dictatorship, don't their ideas lead to such a situation? Doesn't the experience of the USSR and other countries prove that communism while being a well intentioned system descends into a horrible situation?'
I don't believe the fact that the situation in the USSR, etc., is prove that communism is indirectly responsible for terrible crimes. Here's a quote from Fredreich Engels in his Principles of Communism essay:

'Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone?

No. By creating the world market, big industry has already brought all the peoples of the Earth, and especially the civilized peoples, into such close relation with one another that none is independent of what happens to the others.

Further, it has coordinated the social development of the civilized countries to such an extent that, in all of them, bourgeoisie and proletariat have become the decisive classes, and the struggle between them the great struggle of the day. It follows that the communist revolution will not merely be a national phenomenon but must take place simultaneously in all civilized countries -- that is to say, at least in England, America, France, and Germany.

It will develop in each of the these countries more or less rapidly, according as one country or the other has a more developed industry, greater wealth, a more significant mass of productive forces. Hence, it will go slowest and will meet most obstacles in Germany, most rapidly and with the fewest difficulties in England. It will have a powerful impact on the other countries of the world, and will radically alter the course of development which they have followed up to now, while greatly stepping up its pace.

It is a universal revolution and will, accordingly, have a universal range.'

Here Fredreich Engels explains that it is impossible to create communism in one country, and presumably the same would apply to only a small number of countries. So communist thinkers have not yet gotten a chance to carry out their plans, because their plans require that their system takes route throughout most of the world or preferably all of it.
Another thing that must be remembered is that a dictator usually cannot just admit that they only want wealth and power, they must claim to wish to bring about the best for their people. A dictator has a far better chance of being overthrown if they are honest about their motives. So they have to claim to support a system that offers a better life for all, and unfortunately the system they often claim to advocate is communism. Most people seem to agree that communism whether feasible or not is a great system, so it's name will inevitably be used by power hungry dictators for their own selfish ends. They will motivate the people towards carrying out their own personal will in the name of communism.
Another important point is, that while these state capitalist countries referred to themsevles as communist, they also referred to themselves as democratic. So why do people call these countries communist without calling them democratic? Why do people not speak of the crimes of democracy, the brutal dictatorships that exist under democracy, the gulags, the lack of free speach that exist under democracy? Because after all, these countries referred to themselves as democractic just as much as they referred to themselves as communist. So if a person is to believe that these countries were communist simply because they called themselves communist, they are forced to believe that these countries were democratic simply because they called themselves democratic.
And finally, as to the accusation that communists are denying that these countries are communist simply because they turned out so bad, well, if these countries set up a system where the people democratically controlled the buisinesses, where representatives could be recalled at any time, and this directly caused the brutal situation we see in state capitalist countries, then of course communists could be accused of denying these countries simply because they turned out bad. But there is no trace of the democracy we seek in the state capitalist countries. We denounce these nations because they do the exact opposite of what we want, not because we want to dissasociate from the consequences of our own beliefs.
And another argument that has come up is, 'well, if none of these countries were communist, doesn't the fact that communism has failed to exist anywhere prove it won't work?' The answer to this is a definite no. There was a time when capitalism did not exist, but it does now. Just because a system at some point does not exist, does not mean it never can.
I hope I've explained everything properly, if not ask me questions. It's late on this part of the globe so unfortunately I may have made some mistakes, wish I'd wrote this earlier. But to summarise, if people want to talk about their objections to democratic control of buisinesses, or recalling representatives at any time, or anything else that I actually believe in, please feel free to do so. But please do not judge me by the political system of countries that I have never claimed to support, you can't imagine how frustrating it is. I'm sure defenders of capitalism would be quite annoyed if I was to critisise them based on the actions of non-capitalist systems.
I'm going to bed, good night.

H&S,
Right on! Bravo!!!!
I know exactly how you feel Kamerad, I've been dealing (patiently I might add)
with internalized folks for years. The decades long propaganda attacks have completely demonized Marx and communism, and it will take as long or longer to undo the lies. The truth is mighty and will prevail (and so will we), so dont ever give up. Good post Kamerad!!!!

Thanks and take care!
Christopher Henry

Yes,H&S is very well read on the subject of true communisim/socialisim and again has pointed out the elements of true communisim.CH,I agree with what you said also,it will take a long time to recover from the past propaganda and the ongoing disinformation but,as you said it's worth it,capitalists goverments are at a loss for explanations and policy as the world becomes completely globalized and as both of you know,communisim does have a fair,just,plan for goverments in a global economy.

What's frustrating is the fact that we haven't even got to the point where we can discuss what our ideals are. When we say we want democracy people say, 'no you don't you want dictatorship, death, etc. Instead of discussing such matters as workers management, we end up having to repeat over and over again that we do not support Joseph Stalin.