Is it me, or has an unusualy high percentage of idiots found their way to what once was the best discussion forum around? I suggest that anyone who comes here and refuses to make decent and honest conversation should be totaly ignored. We have been wasting time with them, so if Lucent Shadow or blah however makes a remark, smartly say nothing, they have lost their brains. As a Fascist I am promoter of Sorrelian style Marx, and thus would like to continue having engaging Marxist conversations. This will be impposible unless we true debators agree to just ignore the capitalist jerks flooding this forum. I would also urge that whatever authority this board has take some action, as we can see what "Freedom of Speech" can get us. This isn't freedom of speech. Freedom of speech will return when we who have things to realy say can say them, so ban the idiots, thats what I say.

------------------------------------------
Fairy Tales are important, not because they teach us dragons are real, but because they teach us dragons can be defeated.

http://www.freewebs.com/fascirevolutionary/

You know, it is kinds of annoying to have to second a fascist.

I don't mean to get nasty, but your spiritual leader is Mussolini and Hitler, Justin.

I agree, away with the idiots!

Invasion of the thought suckers! That ones good. Or how about Night of the Living Capitalists. Lucent Shadow used to make good conversation, but it is clear now that he intended this to last only on the condition that we eventually agreed with him. He presents little argument, just keeps repeating that he is right, hoping that we will just take his word for it that he is right. He also keeps saying anyone who disagrees with him is stupid in the hope that we will take his word for it on this also. He says we shouldn't care for those who can't work, because it would be, 'stealing people's money,' but he fails to explain how by his own logic he isn't, 'stealing people's money,' by living off the American taxpayer. Oh and his lamest argument ever, 'capitalists have twice the ammount of posters that you have,' when he earlier argued that having the greatest number on your side doesn't make you right.
Justin you are of course right that the fools should be banned, not to remove free speech but to enhance it, I hate to think what would happen if a quite nervous person was attacked by some of the fools who come on here, they might leave the forum. Unfortunately I fear the administrator for these forums is completely and utterly useless. On Democrat DF, where the abuse is much worse, up until recently I reported every abuse I saw, I must have made at least ten reports, but the administrator does nothing, while reacting to more trivial matters. We come on this site with the understanding that people who use abuse will be dealt with, but no, nothing is done about it. I should also point out that a lot of the idiots are the same person posting several times to create the false impression that many people agree with them. I mean, someone would post some stupid insulting thread, and somehow bornetokill would always be the first to answer it. I find that very convienient. I think Pud is pretty much all the people who post stupid threads that say communism is stupid and not much more.
And I 2nd Justin's motion, ignore the fools! These people have made a conscious decision to ignore the argument of others, all we can do is not give them the satisfaction of answering them.
I've boarded up all the windows and doors but the capitalists are still outside. If I get bitten by one of those things I'll start supporting the rights of a minority of buisiness owners to do whatever they want.

Mussolini, sure, but I'll let you be the judge as to wether I support Hitler.



------------------------------------------
Fairy Tales are important, not because they teach us dragons are real, but because they teach us dragons can be defeated.

http://www.freewebs.com/fascirevolutionary/

Now, I'm confused. Are you saying that I enjoy living off the American Tax payer? That's hard to believe since Capitalism shuns taxes. Demonstrate how I enjoy doing it, when I hate it.

I was warned by Capitalists that it would be impossible to make you agree with any form of Capitalism at all. I guess they were right. You're not unintelligent for it. You stick up for what you believe in. That's fine too. I just that myself, and a very many people out their don't agree with what you are advocating.

I'm not trying to convert you, as I recognize that as an impossible endeavor. The philosophy that I follow holds that I have not right to affect another person's choice in making a decision.

I was merely attempting to point out that Capitalism is not what you've been branding it as. Just as I have come to learn that Communism and Socialism aren't what I initialy imagined them as.

It's when you keep pointing at the CURRENT American system and all of it's faults (yes, it has many), and label it as Capitalism--that's when you get me steamed. That is what I was trying to get you to understand initially. That you're views of what Capitalism is- are wrong.

I was going to leave it at that. But you continued to throw current situations at me, then you continue to tell me that communism is the only way to go. That is what caused me to lash out and attempt to identify the faults of Communism. Wheather you believe they are faults or not, is up to you. Wheather I believe their are faults in Communism are not up to you, however. In my opinion, which may be flawed depending a great deal on how you percieve it, is that you cannot advocate a social structure of any kind. You have to let it speak for itself. Something, I will admit neither parties (myself included have done). Neither a true form of Capitalism, nor Communism have ever existed as they were intended to exist.

I do apologize for any offenses that I've comitted in here. I do admit that I've lashed out with quite a bit of disdain that you really don't deserve. I admit that instead of simply asking informative questions, that I did just that--and supplied my own biased answers without giving you a chance to answer. For that, I admit I was wrong as well.

I will not, however, apologize for being a capitalist. I don't expect you to apologize for being Communists either. I find it rather honorable to stick up for what you believe against all odds. I don't agree with pressuring people to agree with someone (to absusing computers and a team of hackers to collapse an economy).

Once again, I apologize. I wish you all the best in any endeavors that you attempt to acheive.

"Mussolini, sure, but I'll let you be the judge as to wether I support Hitler."

A facist is as a fascist does, eh?

Actually Hitler was a national socialist-although he was similar to Mussolini they were not the same.

Lads Im not communist I was merely seeking a forum to engage in friendly banter-If my presence on this board is upsetting anyone just say so and I will leave because after all it is a communist board.

Fascism:
"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism

Mussolini and Hitler were identical in essence, but Hitler took his nationalism and racism to the next level: Genocide. Get your definitions straight please!

Hitler was a National 'Socialist' because 1) racism was widespread in ALL democratic countries at the time, including the UNITED STATES, though a specific part of the left, including Marx and Engels (but not Bakunin), were anti-racist. Hitler took control of a movement built by the left and transformed it, by the hatred of the German loss in WW1 and its subsequent impoverishment of the entire German 'race'. Hitler started with racist, white supremacist thrugs, split the National Socialist Workers Party with his policies which the Marxists, anarchists and commies OBVIOUSLY didn't like (the communists and socialist and liberals jumped ship by engaging Hitler's discontents in fist fights and with rallies, which were, in effect, ground battles in the battle for control), and then proceeded to slowly bring the rest of the population under (the NAZIS party was very small and limited to Bavaria) his control by capitalizing on their collective plight (economic poverty; perceive humiliation; hatred of cosmopolitianism; a weak democratic regime; the power struggle between the bourgeoisie and landed class [which, by far, was the main reason for Hitler's rise: the men of power (the landed class) needed a powerful knight to smash their enemies in what they perceived to be 'realpolitik'])

'Now, I'm confused. Are you saying that I enjoy living off the American Tax payer? That's hard to believe since Capitalism shuns taxes. Demonstrate how I enjoy doing it, when I hate it.'

But you said yourself that people shouldn't, 'steal people's money,' even if it means terrible poverty. By your own logic you should find another job or be unemployed. Why should you be any different from the people who will be condemned to poverty because otherwise they will be, 'stealing?'

'I was warned by Capitalists that it would be impossible to make you agree with any form of Capitalism at all. I guess they were right. You're not unintelligent for it. You stick up for what you believe in. That's fine too. I just that myself, and a very many people out their don't agree with what you are advocating.

I'm not trying to convert you, as I recognize that as an impossible endeavor. The philosophy that I follow holds that I have not right to affect another person's choice in making a decision.

I was merely attempting to point out that Capitalism is not what you've been branding it as. Just as I have come to learn that Communism and Socialism aren't what I initialy imagined them as.'

I listened to your arguments that the current order isn't capitalist but I disagree. Believe me I know how annoying it is when people call systems by their incorrect name, but all evidence is telling me that the current regime is capitalist or at least a close approximation. We do live in a society of big buisiness even if the order is laid out differently than you'd like.

'It's when you keep pointing at the CURRENT American system and all of it's faults (yes, it has many), and label it as Capitalism--that's when you get me steamed. That is what I was trying to get you to understand initially. That you're views of what Capitalism is- are wrong.

I was going to leave it at that. But you continued to throw current situations at me, then you continue to tell me that communism is the only way to go. That is what caused me to lash out and attempt to identify the faults of Communism. Wheather you believe they are faults or not, is up to you. Wheather I believe their are faults in Communism are not up to you, however. In my opinion, which may be flawed depending a great deal on how you percieve it, is that you cannot advocate a social structure of any kind. You have to let it speak for itself. Something, I will admit neither parties (myself included have done). Neither a true form of Capitalism, nor Communism have ever existed as they were intended to exist.'

I believe the system you advocate would cause most of the problems that we see around us now. I know what you advocate, but all the evidence available to me indicates that it wouldn't make things much different than they are. I wasn't just obnoxiously ignoring what you had to say, I know how annoying from my own experience such a thing would be.

'I do apologize for any offenses that I've comitted in here. I do admit that I've lashed out with quite a bit of disdain that you really don't deserve. I admit that instead of simply asking informative questions, that I did just that--and supplied my own biased answers without giving you a chance to answer. For that, I admit I was wrong as well.

I will not, however, apologize for being a capitalist. I don't expect you to apologize for being Communists either. I find it rather honorable to stick up for what you believe against all odds. I don't agree with pressuring people to agree with someone (to absusing computers and a team of hackers to collapse an economy).

Once again, I apologize. I wish you all the best in any endeavors that you attempt to acheive.'


I don't expect you to apologise for being a capitalist. I don't expect anyone to apologise for their political beliefs.

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

Only a capitalist would believe a capitalist dictionary, no? You can't put it past this society to make slanderous propaganda agaisnt its enemies, or you wouldn't be a socialist at all. Their definetion of communism is just as false. Propaganda itself is not new. No matter how you slice it, societies tend to portrey their enemies as villians.

"At present the mass of the people have no freedom. Under Fascism for the first time they will have freedom. What is the use of a vote if the people never get what they vote for ? How can they get what they vote for when only two big Bills can be carried through Parliament in a whole year on account of obstruction ? The beginning of freedom for the people is that the programme for which they vote shall be carried out. It cannot be carried out until the Government has power to act. By giving" Government the power to act, Fascism brings not the end of freedom but the beginning of freedom. Real freedom is economic freedom. Economic freedom cannot come until economic chaos ends ; and it cannot end until a Government has power to act.
Real freedom means good wages, short hours, security in employment, good houses, opportunity for leisure and recreation with family and friends. Modern Science enables us to build such a civilisation. It is not built, because Democracy prefers talk to action. We have to choose between the freedom of a few professional politicians to talk and the freedom of the people to live. In choosing the latter, Fascism makes freedom possible and releases the people from the economic slavery rivetted upon them by the Democracy of talk."

Does that sound like a cruel dictatorship?

"The Press will not be free to tell lies. That is not freedom for the people but a tyranny over their minds and souls. Much humbug is talked on this subject. What is Press freedom ? In practice it means the right of a few millionaires to corner newspaper shares on the stock exchange and to voice their ownopinions and interests irrespective of the truth or of the national interest.
Newspapers are not made any longer by news or journalism. They are made by sheer weight of money expressed in free gift schemes, etc. They serve not the interests of the many but the vested interests of the few. In that service they will stoop to any lie or any debauch of the public mind. This must be stopped, and the freedom of the National Press to serve great interests at the expense of the nation must be curtailed. On the other hand, local newspapers, generally speaking, are fairly conducted, with a sense of national responsibility and will certainly be treated differently by Fascism from the great dope machines of the vested interests which now are dignified by the undeserved title of National Press.
Constructive criticism will always be welcomed by Fascist Government. False and malicious criticism designed to serve vested interests will be dealt with as follows. The Government representing the Nation will have the same right to sue a newspaper which makes untrue statements about it, as an individual at present possesses. If an individual is libelled he has redress in the Courts. But the Nation has no redress. Any lie may be told by a newspaper, however damaging to the national interest, with complete impunity. Lies against the nation should be dealt with even more severely than lies against the individual. Therefore, the right to sue in the Courts should be extended to the Nation represented by its elected Government. Press attacks on the Crown and Royal family will oe regarded as an extremely serious offence. In brief, our Press policy is that newspapers shall tell the truth. The principle is novel but who can say that it is wrong?"

Does that sound like "Suppresion and Opposition"?

"The Fascist Movement represents Leadership, not Tyranny. It offers to the people a Leadership in national revival which they will accept of their own free will. The Dictatorship is a Dictatorship of the will of the people expressed through a Leadership and Government of their own choice. The only way in which the will of the people can be carried out is through a Leadership which they choose for the purpose and give the power to act.
Fascism offers that Leadership through which the will of the people can be effective. Thus a Dictatorship of the people themselves replaces the present Dictatorship of Vested Interests. Parliament and Government are paralysed by universal talk. Programmes for which the people have voted are never implemented. As a result real Government under Democracy rests in the hands of the great interests, such as International Finance. Fascism restores to power the people. That power can only be expressed through Leadership voluntarily accepted and chosen, but armed by the people with power to do what they want done"

It isn't simply despotic, oh no.

"Through the Corporate system which directs private enterprise into channels beneficial and not inimical to the Nation. As will be explained the Corporate system will (1) Prevent anti-social undertakings through the control of finance, and when necessary by direct prohibition ) ; (2) will fairly adjust wages and profits by the raising of wages to afford a fair share of the expanded proceeds of industry to the worker ; (3) will thus also hold a proper equilibrium between saving and investment ; (4) will eliminate wage-cutting competition at home and from abroad ) ; (5) will thus prevent the forcing down of wages to the subsistence level ; (6) will possess complete power to plan production ahead in relation to changing demand, and consequent decline of old industries and development of new ."

You all get the point.



------------------------------------------
Fairy Tales are important, not because they teach us dragons are real, but because they teach us dragons can be defeated.

http://www.freewebs.com/fascirevolutionary/