I CALL ON TO ALL MY COMMUNIST COMRADES TO RISE UP AGAINST THE BURGUISE CAPITALIST MACHINES, KILL ALL THE KULAKS AND STOP ****ING ABOUT PHILOSOPISING LIKE STONED HIPPYS!
LOVE TO YOU ALL
COMRADE POBEDONOSTEV
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I don't know whether or not these particular commies have balls or not, but even if they didn't they'd still be in a better condition than you. You don't even have a knob for crying out loud let alone testicles. I bet women are really dissapointed. Oh I forgot, they'd be so repulsed by you they'd never get as far as your bedroom.
Now eat your own pubic hair and shut up.
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I'd seriously like to see you all try. If anyone noticed in Communist countries they brainwash people. Hey maybe the wheels of capitalism are oiled by the blood of the workers, but the wheels of communism are oiled by the blood of everyone.
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I AM A COMRADE (-;
I want to rise up and loot all wealth from rich people
I want to rise up and make some one else to do my work
I want to rise up and never do any honest work in my whole life
I want to rise up and take my share of wealth cause my need entitles me to.
I want to rise up and kill all those bastards who speak against me like it was done in USSR and is done in China and other socialist countries.
I dont want to exercise my ability so I wanna rise up
I wanna rise up cause I dont have balls like other commies.
Comrade Mak_Mail
mayank_kumar_2003@yahoo.com
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It seems people here don't even know what Communism is... Please, before you make any unintelligent posts like that, read some works by Karl Marx or Engels. Then come back and respond in an intelligent manner, by stating proper arguments.
Here's my argument as an example if you don't know how to make one:
"Communism is the doctrine of the liberation of the proletariat. It is the best ideology up to now. I believe it can work (In fact, the world is becoming more socialist each year). Clearly Karl Marx knew what he was talking about, because he was experienced and understood how capitalism works. He also made theories regarding how history works. One thing you should understand, is that there is a difference between 'Marxism', 'Maoism',' Leninism', 'Stalinism', 'Marxism-Leninism', 'Trotskyism' and 'Left Communism' (There are actually many more)."
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If it hadnt been for capitalists and MNC's, world would still have been a hungry and measly place, and all the commies her should know that, if it hadnt been for them, there would have been no computers and internet at such cheap rates and u wouldnt have been able to criticize them as u r doing now.
Capitalists MAKE money and provide things to people to make them life comfortable and no MARX or Engels or any sucker can change that.
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Yah, but is there are no capitalists then there will be no exploitation, poverty and more importantly there will be equality. Again, I don’t care about you or your fellow capitalist friends. All I care about is my exploited working class people. Then, why should I be worried if people like you won’t be able to travel by luxurious cars and or other so called great inventions.
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Communism will not work for a majority of reasons, one of which I will address. Communism is my opinion goes against the natural laws of nature, which Marx along with Darwin both agreed upon. The laws of nature are as Lord Tennyson described, "red in tooth and claw". Natural order is savage, where what lives is what is strong, smart, agile, etc. That which dies is what is weak, these are facts which we cannot deny, the question is though how does this apply to us. Since we are products of nature our society will always reflect that nature, however right or wrong, good or bad, you or I feel that reflection is. Communism seeks to create a wonderful society by deny who we are, it cannot work, however good that utopia would be, it never can be.
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I like your arguement and agree with it but I think what people are not seeing is that communism has no chance of happening now. In the future however when are society has evolded as it has been doing for hundreds of years there will come a time when a society like a communist one will occur and if it evolves in the right way, the way it is doing now then the thee steps of can be followed. That is what i believe and the only thing we can do now is help it happen by teaching people and informing, we shouldn't however only follow the marxist approach but should also look at the other philsophy's and politicals ideas like anarchism and organised destructionism being examples.
One day minds will be reset.
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We don’t have to bother about a communist society now. It is possible to bring a socialist government to power, right? Then, lets do it. In a socialist society, communism would look more realistic. Now what we all know is that, capitalism is wrong and socialism is correct so, lets take the necessary steps to for the setting up of a socialist government. We can bother about communism later.
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I will like to say that socialism or communism can and should never be implemented. Firstly, because it goes against the law of nature of survival of fittest. Secondly, in capitalism, everyone has opportunity to grow and rich according to his or her ability which I personally think is more then fair. Also, the competition prevalent among the big companies for market forces them to make good products which ends up benefitting the comman man.
Hope you agree with me
MAK
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First of all everything we do is against the laws of nature and the only difference between humans and animals. We humans change our environment according to our need where as animals are not capable of doing that. If you thing we have to play according to the rules then, we have to go back to stone age again.
Secondly, every one has the opportunity to grow in a socialist. In a capitalist every one has the opportunity to exploit (which is growth according to you) but only a very few criminals manage to do the dirty work of exploitation successfully, leaving others to starve.
Thirdly, our capitalist owners do anything to overcome completion. They don’t care about nature; environment or anything and what they want is money. One such example is, hole in the ozone layer. Our capitalist are now making money through the hole in the ozone layer by selling products that will protect us from UV rays. So they are causing a huge damage to our nature in order to make money and they are also making another huge sum in the name of giving a solution.
Hope you agree with me.
Marx junior.
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Well I always thought it made the most sense to wait till the capitalists first removed themselves from power by their own actions, and then rise up. Besides if you tried to lead a communist revolution right now, itd be funny more then anything else.
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"I will like to say that socialism or communism can and should never be implemented. Firstly, because it goes against the law of nature of survival of fittest."
Then the bourgeoisie should have been murdered and robbed by the working-class a long time ago, but no this did not happen in the civilized world, this only happend in the most barbaric nations: early 20th century Russia and mid-20th century China. "Survival of the fittest" can be applied to animals, but human society is too sophisticated to be compared to animals, humans have many more abilities than animals, in order to survive, such as singing, dancing, writing books, driving taxi, bagging groceries, etc. in exchange for the money needed for survival. Anyone can bag groceries, but the problem with Capitalist society, is that it won't allow the poorest of the poor to get such simple jobs, because there are better educated middle-class people who qualify for the job. The poor majority of all the capitalist countries, can not get higher education or even adeuate partial education, because they are too busy looking for way to make money to feed their empty stomachs and pay the land-lord to not evict them. For example some poor people do drugs to deal with the sad hopelessness of being poor in a capitalist society,. Some poor people sell drugs to get money to feed their family, because there are no other opportunities for uneducated low-class people. Some poor people go to jail for stealing food or stealing things they can sell to get money for food, and when they come out of jail, it becomes nearly impossible for the felon or former inmate to get a job, and thus they return to the cycle of crime.
"Secondly, in capitalism, everyone has opportunity to grow and rich according to his or her ability which I personally think is more then fair."
There are not enough jobs in a capitalist society for everyone, so how can they get rich legally? In a Socialist society everyone gets a job, because the state replaces the capitalist, and the state can not be greedy like a capitalist, and thus it gives jobs to everyone, not just the most qualified. Also, in capitalism, new and improved "inventions" are made to require less workers for the capitalist, making the capitalist save mroe money and get richer, and the workers get poorer. In a socialist society everything is done collectively, like look at how in China they make shoes by hand, which requires a lot of workers, but at least everyone gets to have a decent living, instead of being unemployed and begging on the street like in capitalist socieities.
"Also, the competition prevalent among the big companies for market forces them to make good products which ends up benefitting the comman man."
These good products are not as important as the task of feeding the entire National population. In the past, the ruling-class got away with living rich while the working-masses slept on a nearly empty stomach, but now that the world has become more educated and communication has become so fast, wars between nations are becoming a thing of the past, now we see civil-wars being much more common then wars between different nations. If the bourgeoisie keep producing video games, luxurious cars, and fancy clothes, but don't want to set aside some of their wealth in the form of taxes to feed, clothe, and shelter, the poor working-masses, then eventually the bourgeoisie will be the ones with no food, clothes, nor shelter. You have to also realize that the armed forces of the nations of the world are no longer comprised of just the children of the ruling-classes, but nowadays the armed forces comprises mostly of men and women from the poor working-class majority.
"Hope you agree with me
MAK"
Please prove me I am wrong, and I will agree with you, or anyone that has the same views like "MAK".
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Look, man is not a special animal that law of nature wont apply on it. Firstly, after reading your post , I am persuming that u dont know anything about darwin's law. In nearly all animals excpet humans, selection occurs on basis of force, but in humans it occurs on basis of intelligence. It has always occured and is occuring presently and will always occur.The natural selection is like mathmatics law like 2+2 =4. Saying that law of natural selection does not apply implies that 2+2 = 5 (which does not happen excpet maybe in 1984!!! which is more then appropiate.)
"Secondly, in capitalism, everyone has opportunity to grow and rich according to his or her ability which I personally think is more then fair."
Look getting rich does not happen by only getting job. It can happen by creating jobs. If a person doesnt get a job he can open his own buisness and if he/she has enough brain and will to work it will succeed. Its only those drooling and disgusting ppl who cant take risks and do hard work but put a claim on work done by others and who claim that they are being expolited by capitalism when infact the capitalism means :-
"WHEN PEOPLE CAN TRADE FOR MUTUAL BENFIT."
And thus whatever happens in capitalism happens by the consent of the affecting party and it can easily be derived by this statement that it will result in to inequality but everyone will get what they deserve which is in sync with the law of nature.
Equality is against law of nature and cannot and should not happen because man are born unequal ok
Each person should have equal opportunites but they will not get equal results. Some will get poor while some will be millionare. And if you are too weak to accept this law of nature then cry and drool as all commies do.
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“In nearly all animals excpet humans, selection occurs on basis of force, but in humans it occurs on basis of intelligence.”
No, both animal and human attributes are ‘selected’ on the basis of their benefits to the animal or human. Therefore both physical and mental ability are ‘chosen’ or ‘ignored’ based on their relevance to an organisms survival. The same goes for all living things such as plants and insects.
“The natural selection is like mathmatics law like 2+2 =4.”
No, natural selection is a scientific, theoretical law. This means that it is based on theory and is not ‘a priori’ in the way mathematical law is. Also ‘2+2=4’ is not a law in its self but an equation that is bound by the laws of mathematics. The ‘law’ of natural selection is not set in stone. The scientific community consistently shifts its thought from theory to theory as time goes by (Newton=Einstein=Hawking). It’s known as ‘Kuhn’s paradigm shift’.
As for your other comments see my post on ‘Why communism could work’ posted on January 14. I’m sure Paris Hilton works very hard for her money.
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"Look, man is not a special animal that law of nature wont apply on it. Firstly, after reading your post , I am persuming that u dont know anything about darwin's law. In nearly all animals excpet humans, selection occurs on basis of force, but in humans it occurs on basis of intelligence."
I thought about "survival of the fittest", as you said the most intelligent are the fittest for survival. I thought about what Hitler did about his belief in the "survival of the fittest", he sent the mentally handicapped to the death chambers.
But what about the "ignorant" masses of workers uniting in refusal to work for the bourgeoisie for their "ignorant" exploitation:
"In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it [the bourgeoisie] has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation." - The Communist Manifesto
The "ignorant" masses of workers, uniting in their submission to the leadership of the "intelligent workers" (doctors, lawyers, teachers, scientists, etc.), accepting their exploitation as a more progressive/evolutionary one, thus preferring intellectual exploitation rather than the "raw exploitation" of the capitalists.
"Look getting rich does not happen by only getting job. It can happen by creating jobs. If a person doesnt get a job he can open his own buisness and if he/she has enough brain and will to work it will succeed. Its only those drooling and disgusting ppl who cant take risks and do hard work but put a claim on work done by others and who claim that they are being expolited by capitalism when infact the capitalism means :-
"WHEN PEOPLE CAN TRADE FOR MUTUAL BENFIT."
And thus whatever happens in capitalism happens by the consent of the affecting party and it can easily be derived by this statement that it will result in to inequality but everyone will get what they deserve which is in sync with the law of nature."
So what do you think about the intelligent tactic of trade unions, bringing about massive strikes/walk-outs of workers in order to pressure/influence the employer(s) to pay better wages for the labor of the workers?
"Equality is against law of nature and cannot and should not happen because man are born unequal ok"
Which country do you live in? If you live in the U.S., then you have a tough job bringing this idea into reality, because the constitution of the U.S. states:
All men are created equal, with unalienable rights to the pursuit of liberty, justice, and happiness.
"Each person should have equal opportunites but they will not get equal results. Some will get poor while some will be millionare. And if you are too weak to accept this law of nature then cry and drool as all commies do."
What you say about the workers of China, whom captured and killed the the capitalists and the feudal-lords instead of crying and drooling? Today China is a world power to be reckoned with, and is highly anticipated by friends and foes to be on its way to becoming the second "Super-Power", due to the foundation layed by capturing and killing the capitalists and feudal-lords.
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Look clear somethings up:
Firstly by saying that:-
All men are created equal, with unalienable rights to the pursuit of liberty, justice, and happiness.
u have only enforced my point for that was what i was saying. Every man have equal right to pursuit of happiness but not to happiness. But what socialist try to do is that every man has equal happiness which is totally unjust. Secondly, trade unions have full right to strike but laws should not be made in this regard. IF my facories workers go on a strike I should have full right to fire them and offer employment to other unemployed people. Also, if you are one of those communists who believe that China is solcialist country then waht aabout 30 million farmers peasnts and workers who died of hunger during cultural revolution. Nowdays, many commies say that china or russia were not really communist but "back stabbing capitalist.". Also, about 25 million russians died of starvation from 1920 to 1940 so much that population of russia decreased from expected 17 million to 14 million and stalin jailed those people who took sensex. (This fact has been admitted as being true by russian government)
If u think that china and russia are not communist or socialist then think again for george orwell predicted that thats what will always happen in communist country(1984)
How many graves will commies fill before they admit that they are wrong?
(100 million is the count till now as admitted by Europeon Union.)
Incidentlly, an intersting observation I will like to make is that all those deaths that happen in communist countries is also a part of natural selection. Think how many have died of hunger in USA in last 100 years. I am sure that figure would not be more than in thousands. That is the pure and living example of natural selction!!
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Socialism and communism ? Hmmmm Great ideas except for 1 thing. They don't take into account for corruption. Look no further than Russia. They had such a wonderful life behind the iron curtain. Look at the Euope the west supported v.s the Soviet Union. Not much to compare.
Ok China: Until China took control of Hong kong and all of its wealth They were pretty much like North Korea. Now that China has Hong Kong They basically allowed it to remain a capatalist society and China keeps the profits.
Look At Cuba its a jem. Wouldn't we all like to live there.
The only difference between capatalism and socialism or communism is of yeah FREEDOM.
In The USA we all have the ability to climb out of Poverty. I know that I did.
As did all of my siblings. We grew up in the stereo typical welfare house. Poor as dirt. Not because my Dad was lazy but because he had a tumor in his spine. We each would recieve 2 or 3 inexpencive gifts for Christmas each year. I'm not complaining my parents gave what they could.
None of us went to college and yet all of us make a good dollar today. My way out was that I joined the Navy. When I got out of the navy I was still poor but knew how to save money and plan for tomorow. I paid for both of my kids when they were born. No insurance but alot of pride. I worked 2 and 3 jobs to do it. Kept plugging away finally found a good job. Its a classic american story. If I and my 4 brothers and sisters can do it anyone can. I don't want the goverments help, Don't need it. No matter what form of government we have the elite will be at the top and lazy slackers at the bottom. The middle class will always be the back bone. Only in communism there is no middle class. You have the elites and then you have the pesants.
I'm too honest to be in politics and have to much pride to be a pesant. I'll stay middle class thank you very much.
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Hey congrats tinman, u have kead an admirable life, much better then those whiny kids with no pride who dont want to work and who expect that somebody else (state, rich people) should support them.
HATS OFF!!!!
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what sweat shops do you refer to? GM? Ford? Procter & Gamble? Or is it the autobody shops? I honestly can't recall seeing one. I have read about them . They have some really big ones In RED China, North Korea and and Vietnam.
For a fact I know that if you work hard,save your money and plan well you can succeed in the The GOOD OLD USA. Its true we have many poor people. Some by circumstance as in an unplanned pregnancy at an early age. Lost a job due to layoff etc. But the work is there sometimes we must swallow our pride and take low paying jobs until we find something better. But Communism and socialism have been proven to be a dismal failure. China is the only successful example and they have moved into the capitalist world now. If it were not for getting Hong Kongs wealth they would still be like North Korea.
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Sweatshops run in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe and South America by western multinationals or domestic puppet companies.
“For a fact I know that if you work hard,save your money and plan well you can succeed in the The GOOD OLD USA.”
No, if you work three jobs, live in substandard living conditions and you don’t get ill because you can’t afford health insurance, then yes, in the ‘good old USA’ you can achieve a semi-adequate lifestyle. ‘Unfortunately’ the vast majority of people (96%, that’s right you’re not the only country in the world) don’t live in the ‘good old USA’ and their ‘opportunities’ are drastically reduced often as a result of US imperialism.
“But Communism and socialism have been proven to be a dismal failure.”
When were they ‘proven’ to fail, the communist epoch has not succeeded the capitalist epoch.
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You are right there are many other countries. The cause of the vast majority of poor in other countries and to a degree in the USA can be defined by 1 root cause.
Dependance on goverment to take care of them. By this I don't mean welfare although welfare is a crippling evil. Many people feel that the man in charge will make decisions that will make everyones life better. The problem is the man in charge reguardless of who it is and what system of goverment rapidly becomes more and more corrupt.
I'll beat up on my own country to be fair.
Look at the USA. We elect our reps. Some of us will actually believe the rhetoric that they use to get elected. They lie to get in office and do nothing but lie while in office. oops I forgot something. They also get rich. They help friends to get rich and become even more corrupt. Thats the problem with power. It tends to attract the worst of us. Communism and socialism are the same. In the ussr the leadership lived as well as any capitalist millionare and the poor lived like anyone elses poor. Same is true of china. The biggest issue I have with Socialism and communism is unless you are a friend of the politician you have no chance what so ever of being anything but poor.
In the usa you can through good decision making and hard work avoid poverty.
What am I for? I am for flat taxes, term limits of no more than 4 years and workfare instead of welfare. I am for personal accountability at all levels.
Redstar I hear what you are saying and feel your rightous anger. I too detest the corrupt power mongers who are nothing but prostitutes of corruption. The dismal failures of communisim I speak of is the USSR, north korea,Vietnam, and yes China. Until china took ownership of HONG KOng they were a larger version of N.Korea. Now they are a commmunist Goverment that uses capitalism to found the goverment. China's poor are still poor and the fat cats in charge are more wealthy than ever. And Yes I have been there. My first vacation was 3 weeks spent in asia with my wife who is from Thailand.
Working 3 jobs sucked.(BIG TIME). But from it I gained so much. Not in money but forced wisdom. To think before I act or spend,or waste. I am not wealthy. I earn 60,000 a year. But I Have a nice home, 6 yearold toyota truck.A nine yearold atv i paid cash for because I saved instead of financed.
Red Star I respect your view points because you state them in a polite and educated manner. I think we can agree on 1 thing. We live in a very corrupt world and many people are suffering as a result. For the USA a good start would be nonpartisan police agency whose sole purpose is to police our elected officials.
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Corruption is one, but not the only reason for poverty and is part of a bigger cause, capitalism. We, everyone, lives under this dominant socio-economic ideology known as capitalism. Capitalism has many side affects including corruption, inequality, class conflict, poverty etc. etc. and needs these by products to work efficiently and produce capital. The main driving factor in capitalism is people’s ability or ‘freedom’ to trade anything, most commonly their own labour power. Someone with common labour skills have to sell their labour cheap because there is a high supply of said labour skills and a nominal demand for it. Someone with a very specific skill can sell their labour for much more because their skill is not in great supply but their may be a great demand for it. So people’s worth is directly connected to their labour power. People get this labour power from the educational institutions within society (obviously). It is therefore our education that allows us to sell our labour power for the most we possibly can. The problem is that the previous generation have already gone through this process and have accumulated capital as a result of their education. This allows them to send their offspring to improved or impoverished educational institutions based on the successes or failures of their descendants. Those who are educated in poor educational institutions end up with cheap labour power; this is how capitalism creates poverty. If everyone could claw their way out of poverty their would be no working class jobs.
Communism is not an alternative to but the successor of capitalism. It can not be chosen our emplaced while capitalism exists. This is why so called ‘communist states’ fail, because they weren’t communist (although poverty in Russia has increased and living standards and health care have plummeted).
Countries with socialist governments, like the UK between 1945 and 1979, have been moderately successful in redistributing wealth. The NHS is a perfect example of socialist success.
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Redstar once again I understand where your coming from but at the same time I don't agree.
I truely believe that the cause of corruption isn't the ideology.
Its MAN. Its infortunate but history repeats itself everyday. No matter what system is in place it will create its elitists. China and russia both proved this. Whats worse is the level of brutality that occured under those systems.In a perfect world man wouldn't be so corruptable.Russia under stalan is probibly one of the worst in history. China under mao wasn't much better.
As far as england they are a socialist Democracy. I have been there while in the Navy and also have friends there. As compared to the USA I wouldn't say they have it all that great. Many children are forced to live with the parents even after marrage because they honestly can't afford the cost of an apartment. The taxes are so high there isn't much left over for much else. As for the medicine well the rep isn't that great. Long waits to be seen by a doctor and even longer waits to see a specialist. medicine in the usa is expensive for those who pay out of pocket. Most of us have health insurance though work. Those that don't must pay for insurance themselves as I used to. But even that was cheaper than enland 50% taxes and higher. Canada has socialized health insurance. Some great advantages to that. But the taxes they pay are fairly high.The poor in the usa have the medical card. As I said most people who are poor in the USA are poor by making bad or stupid choices.
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"No matter what system is in place it will create its elitists."
There were no "elitists" at the beginning of human history, because the society was much more simple.
"In a perfect world man wouldn't be so corruptable.Russia under stalan is probibly one of the worst in history. China under mao wasn't much better.
As far as england they are a socialist Democracy. I have been there while in the Navy and also have friends there."
The reason why capitalist countries are much more well-off than the so-called "communist" ones, is that the capitalist system is predominant in the international arena. The living standard of the peoples of the Soviet Union was so poor, because the government spent too much of the budget of the Nation on massive military build-up and spreading Communism in other countries, before being able to secure a decent standard of living for their own people. You can't blame Communism for the actions of some communists, the same way you can't blame Capitalism for the actions of a few capitalists.
"As I said most people who are poor in the USA are poor by making bad or stupid choices."
Poor people are poor because of the existance of rich people, it is that simple. Now what is not simple is agreeing on exactly which people in society are part of the rich exploiters of the majority, whom are poor. Some say just capitalists, some say capitalists and white-collar workers. And some say all the urban people.
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Some things that you forgot to mention about why the communist countries have failed.
1. The secrete police that have helped to make the comunist nations so notorious. The revelutionaries are so paranoid about all the fellow comrades that they feel paranoid about everyone.Every country uses a police force. Its a needful thing. So many individuals choose to act like animals. But when you burn books.Squash individual thought, punish freee thinkers is it not also true that you doom your future?
I don't see that the rich are responsible for the poor. I feel they contribute . Look no further than walmart. But in a free society its about choice. For example. If I earn $20.000 a year.After taxes $15,000. If I buy a new car on credit waste money buying things I don't need and save no money then I choose to be poor.I can work 2 jobs for awhile save money build up a resume get a good job and not be poor. Unfortunately most people only think about today.
I guess my biggest problem with redistributing the wealth is who decides where the wealth goes. Who decides? what are the checks and balances? So far its been very poorly done. It seems the ones that have came before us only helped themselves.I watched a bbc documentry on china. They have come along way since Mao. But so many homes out side of the cities have no runing water,no electricity. They use a small wood stove to heat 1 room houses. In the usa you would be hard pressed to find that.The program I watched was about a chinese village that was virtually wiped out by Aids. They aquired aids from donating blood for money. The people taking the blood reused dirty needles. So shocking and sad.
Believe it or not I don't hate communists or socialists. What I hate is that in this day and age man is still so willing to use and abuse anyone they perceive as weak.
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Your right about the role of police in so-called communist states, but I feel that the attitudes of the police are a product of dictatorships not communism. In the UK the police arrest any one who protests against the government and we’re supposed to be a democracy. I also agree that when you “burn books, squash individual thought, punish free thinkers” you do indeed “doom your future” I don’t for a second condone such actions.
You argue that in a free society that poverty is a choice (I disagree but I’m doubt I’d convince you otherwise) but what about those who don’t have that freedom such as those who live in less economically developed countries, what are they supposed to do?
The Labour movement in the UK was a successful in redistributing wealth. Rather than redistribute the wealth purely in capital terms (benefits, which, as I understand it, is the currently preferred method in the US) it came back in the form of institutions like BP, the NHS, the NR etc. etc. In answer to the question of ‘checks and balances’ and ‘who decides’ is that not what elections are for, how to spend our taxes not whether we should be taxed or not.
I’m not surprised you don’t hate communists, you seem like an intelligent person, one of those ‘companionate conservatives’ Bush claims to be or an old liberal. You say that you “hate that in this day and age man is still so willing to use and abuse anyone they perceive as weak” but is that not the capitalist way?
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Society in its self is against the laws of nature. In nature, animals operate on instinct and their behavior that they are drawn to by nature. Society brings us away from these basic animal instincts and forces people to conform to the society's standards. The object of society is to organize the powers of man and to best suit each member with his/her needs and so forth. In this sense, Communism/Marxism works because resources are split evenly and everyone is equally suited.
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Thank you for the compliments. I feel I am an average guy. Its not the capitalist way to prey upon the weak. Its mans way. Since the begining of recorded history its been the same story over and over. It seems all the great societies started out with men who had noble intensions. It didn't take long for those in power to corrupt the ideals of the first dreamer. In short I have no faith in any men in power. Power intoxicates, its addictive, it corrupts. The only solution I see is strict term limits and accountability. Every financial record of those in power should be made public. Every vote should be graded. Redstar I don't se you as a bad man. I see you as someone like me. Some one who wants things to be fair and honest. Hahaha the only problem is we don't have the power. what a catch 22 .
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Is man innately oppressive? Is this what you’re suggesting? If this is the case then why do so many choose to give to charities with no material benefit for themselves. Greed and power lust are learnt traits, it was once the norm to believe oneself to be completely submissive to a monarch (I should know I still have to pay for one). The point is that there are no truly innate characteristics; our ideas are dictated to us via the dominant ideology of society.
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I don't believe all men or women are born evil or bad. I do however believe that most are followers. Then you have those who seek power. Who enjoy being above others. In the USA one could look at local politics and local police forces and see my point. Then you have the cult od personality. This is how guys like Hitler and Stalan rose to power. People love it if someone can make the hard decisions for them. This way they can blame someone else if it fails. example. The Democrates in the USA. Crying foul about the war. Germany the average citizen would swear on a stack of bibles after WWII that they knew nothing about the death camps. USSR the citizens swear they didn't know who was giving the KGB info. It goes on and on. Yes many people myself included give to charities. Help those who are less fortunate. But I march to the beat of my own drum. Man is a deadly predatore. We hunt and kill for the sole purpose of pleasure. Most of us don't. But those few who do are also perceived as powerful. Iether because of fear or adoration people will follow this type. So often people will witness a violent crime and then when interviewed by police claim to have seen nothing.It seems we all know someone who is a thief, a bulley, in plain words an *******.But so seldom will anyone stand up and say no more, enough. At work I am a click buster. I don't allow the abuse of unpopular people by the majority. I have taken my share of heat for taking a stand but I sleep well at night. But most people pretend to see nothing, hear nothing, do nothing. This is why no matter what system we use for goverment the wrong people always rise to the top. The most ruthless, the strongest the best at manipulating the system for personal gain.History is full of failures. Grand ideals that could have even should have produced a utopian society. But what was broken? The people who rose to the top.
By the way have you red much about the kibutz farms in Isreal? Pretty cool system. I was there and actually got to visit a few of them.
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The Kibbutzim are based on the principles of socialism and Zionism. If it were not for the fact they exist for the enrichment of Zionism they could be classed communist. This style of community is what Marxism wants to see more of. The only thing that stops humans from changing society is the belief that they haven’t got the power to change society.
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Red star once again a well written post. We are proof that people of differing ideologies can get along. We have even found the common ground, this done without insult or slander.Now if only our so called highly educated politicians could do the same.
I liked the concept of the Kibbutz. It made complete sence as far as a farming community goes. Shared equipment, shared profit and a shared burden.Now for what I didn't care for. The incentive to excellwasn't there in my mind. Why push to excell if no matter how well you out produce the rest of the Kibbutz its still an equal pay off. This is the capitalist side of me.
But over all I was Wowed by the concept.
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The incentive in the Kibbutzim to achieve exists in the socialist principles that run through all the Abrahamic books, like the Torah, and deeply held Kabbalah beliefs in a mystical Jewish work ethic (known as Labour Zionism) similar to calvanism. Did you know that the children born in a Kibbutz are taken from their parents and are raised by metapelet (carers)? Parents can only see their children for three hours a day. I wonder if you would be more in favour of the Moshavim.
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No I wasn't aware of that, no surprise they left that part out of the tour lectures.Red Star you are amazingly well written. I am a hack but I try hard.
In the USA the small farmer is an endangered species. Some of the concepts of the Kibbutz could be helpful. Imagine instead of 20 farmers owning 20 tractors, 20 plows etc, what if 1 owned the tractor, one owned the plows and so on. The problem no doubt would be prioritizing use.
I visited England twice while in the Navy. I loved the country side as well as the outstanding ales. We stopped at an inn. I had a cheese with a relish. I always regretted not asking what kind of cheese it was. The relish was awsome as well.
Take care
Jim
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Sound like you had a ploughman's lunch. The cheese would have been cheddar and the relish would have 'Branston Pickle' (if it was thick and black). It seems like useless information to have in your head but every Englishman knows a ploughman's when they hear it.
The Moshavim are much more numerous than the Kibbutzim and allow personal belongings not related to agricultural in their towns and maintain most of the socialist principles.
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Thank you for solving the 22 year mystery hahahaha
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March 10 2006, 4:11 PM
RedStar tell me if you could change the world how would you oraganize the goverment and social institutions.
Me? I wouldprobibly start by thining the lawyer heards. Even in the most capitalist society its the lawyers that sour the wine.
In this I so agree with the Russians. hahaha
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Careful, you’re starting to sound like Pol Pot.
If it were up to me I’d reorganise global industry in to a world wide socialist economy under the control of a centralised governmental body, representative of how the Earths population feels their labour would be best used, based on elections every five years using proportional representation. Political parties would not exist people would stand on behalf of their labour sector either using the constituent system used in Europe or perhaps a modified version of the electoral collage used in the US (which is actually quite an archaic system).
The problem is businesses aren’t really willing to give up the means of production as they stand to loose a great deal financially even though it will be better for society in the long run. Also it requires the want of every body in all nations to work, so, unfortunately, it would be a system implementable in the future but not in my life time.
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