Look clear somethings up:
Firstly by saying that:-
All men are created equal, with unalienable rights to the pursuit of liberty, justice, and happiness.(In US constituion)
But what socialist try to do is that every man has equal happiness which is totally unjust. Secondly, trade unions have full right to strike but laws should not be made in this regard. IF my facories workers go on a strike I should have full right to fire them and offer employment to other unemployed people. Also, if you are one of those communists who believe that China is solcialist country then waht aabout 30 million farmers peasnts and workers who died of hunger during cultural revolution. Nowdays, many commies say that china or russia were not really communist but "back stabbing capitalist.". Also, about 25 million russians died of starvation from 1920 to 1940 so much that population of russia decreased from expected 17 million to 14 million and stalin jailed those people who took sensex. (This fact has been admitted as being true by russian government)
If u think that china and russia are not communist or socialist then think again for george orwell predicted that thats what will always happen in communist country(1984)
How many graves will commies fill before they admit that they are wrong?
(100 million is the count till now as admitted by Europeon Union.)
Incidentlly, an intersting observation I will like to make is that all those deaths that happen in communist countries is also a part of natural selection. Think how many have died of hunger in USA in last 100 years. I am sure that figure would not be more than in thousands. That is the pure and living example of natural selction!!
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Well I wasnt actually there, but I'd imagine it wasnt nearly as bad in the early days of the Soviet Union as they make it out to be. Some people say up to 60 million died under Stalinist policies without ever really even looking into it, they basically just make up some numbers. If it was really so bad, the system never would have endeared for so long a time.
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Well, sadly it was, if you dont belive me, you can go to wikipedia which have pics of dead farmers dying due to starvation.
IF you dont beleive that too then russian governemnt itself admitted of excesses under Stalin(which is perhaps natural outcome of a philosophy where noone has power over his own work and products.)
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'If u think that china and russia are not communist or socialist then think again for george orwell predicted that thats what will always happen in communist country(1984)'
George Orwell was a socialist, he was just against what was happening in the USSR (like most socialists) Orwell is always depicted as some kind of defender of capitalism but he stated many times that he supported socialism, like in Homage to Catalonia.
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Well im sure there were some excesses, but thats the thing when you at communism through a capitalist filter, you never know whats actually true. Certainly there was a real differnce in mindset in the revolutionary days that allowed such fast advances in development. I look at the Soviet Union as an experiment more then anything, which did have more then a few failures. Certainly it can at least show what was wrong with the early communists and what changes are needed in the development of communism.
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In response to Floyder's post of February 6, 2006 that "changes are needed in the devolopment of communism", mak_make wrote:
"Yeah keep changing but how many more graves will u fill???"
mak_make, is obviously anti-communism, and his view that even reforming communism, is not acceptable, proves that he is a staunch reactionary, most likely a bourgeoisie intellectual. And if you read all the writings of Karl Marx, you never find any instance in which he entertains the thought that communism can be achieved through negotiations or debate with the bourgeoisie. So there is no use in debating or negotiating with this staunch supporter of conservative capitalism.
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Listen, I have heard those figures too (actually I heard 94 million) but people do not consider several things:
1. These nations have been totalitarian military dictatorships. Capitalist military dictatorships have been responsible for terrible things also. E.g. NAZI Germany. It's not Communism that is killing these people.
2. In democratic communist states for instance Chille, the standard of living has actually gone up. Chille is a classic example; before Allende 46% of the national income was distributed amoungst 2% of the nation. When Allende was voted in despite a US trade war and a recall of US aid the standard of living went up.
3. The cost of western capitalistic global imperialism is currently astronomically more lethal, for example 11 million children (under the age of 5) die every year due to poverty. You need to consider where western wealth comes from, the 3rd world.
4. If you are going to anatomise a ideological, political and economic system please dont rely on the 'track record' based on autocratic regiemes.
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"If u think that china and russia are not communist or socialist then think again for george orwell predicted that thats what will always happen in communist country"
You have no Idea what your talking about China deviated from Marxist established doctrine in order to promote Maoism. Since Marxism or Marxism Leninism is the core philosophy of Communism any society that deviates from this isnt Communist be definition. What your preaching is self evident nonsense China was no more communist than the establishment of Juche in North Korea through their denial of Marxist philosophy they ceased being Communist. Russia has never been truly socialist while they did share some of the philosophy of socialism there was considerably more emphasis on state Capitalism. Socialism (the dictatorship of the proletariat) is the transitional workers state that comes after Democracy i.e socialism Russia only reached an intermidiate period between the two because of stalinism. This of course was made possible by lenin who through the formation of a vangaurd party formed a class above the proletariat in what was by definition to be a classless society.
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China is not communist, it is Communist. I mean this in the sense that it is not philosophically, sociologically, or economically communist but is controlled by a group of people who believe that it is or believe that they are created communism over a long period of time, hence the use of the pronoun 'Communism'. The same applies to the USSR, as they were a group of people called Communists but were not actually living in the communist epoch.
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Totalitarian society has the state in full or almost full control over every aspect of society. In communist society there is no state and so, therefore, it is impossible for communist society to be totalitarian. However it is possible for a communist (that is someone who believes that communism will come in the future) to found a totalitarian state and brand it as Communist.
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That’s right, most of them either claim to be adopting another form of government inspired by communist thought (North Korea and Cambodia) or have adopted a style of government designed to anticipate the rise of communism (Cuba and USSR).
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Because the founder of communism, Karl Marx, used a positivistic approach in his critique of history and the social changes within it, he was able to give convincing predictions as to what course history would or should take. What Marx basically attempts to do is use scientific methodology to define society, so he can say that in the past x has = y, x is happening now and so therefore as a result y will happen.
This is a very vague answer but if I went into any more detail I’d go on for ever, if you want to know the basics of Marxist communism then read ‘The German Ideology’. If it’s to complex (which Marx can be at first reading) then there is an abridged version at http://www.btinternet.com/~glynhughes/squashed/marx.htm.
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Well, Marx predicted that Russia would be the last country to accept communism because of lack of industries there. He predicted that communsim would be accpeted roughly in order of the degree of industrilization. Exactly the opposite has happened. Most industrilized country(US) is most capialist while all the backward countries are accpeting communsim with disastrous results
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How has the opposite happened, no countries have ‘adopted’ communism. Marx is not the be all and end all of communist thought and he wasn’t completely correct. Lenin, Marx and Trotsky all argued that capitalism is self defeating.
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"Well, Marx predicted that Russia would be the last country to accept communism because of lack of industries there. He predicted that communsim would be accpeted roughly in order of the degree of industrilization. Exactly the opposite has happened. Most industrilized country(US) is most capialist while all the backward countries are accpeting communsim with disastrous results"
Actually Marx predicted quite the oppisite he realized that class conciseness would be first realized by backward agricultual countries such as Russia.
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Violent actions lead to even more violent retaliations, violent retaliations lead to violent decisions. Violent decisions lead to Definite decisions. Decisions end up to evolve and take the shape of the retaliation's initial purpose.
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1. The theory of Marx is correct on many accounts. The fact that it didn't happen in the USSR proves it. Besides, he never said it would take only one or two years to establish a Communist society. It can take years till it happens.
2. Marxism is not a dogma. It changes, is enhanced and adapted to the settings of the users time. It accepts no eternal truths. Truth is relative. Therefore, it changes with the time.
3. All those figures and description of the USSR from wikipedia are taken from Bourgeois websites, historians, etc. It is mere propaganda, clerverly played by the Capitalist, as Dennis McKinsey clearly states in his book 'The relevance of Marxism'. There is no actual proof of this 'death toll and count' in the USSR. No one will show you the official Soviet documents or anything like it, because they know that they contain nothing of what they allege.
4. The OPs information and knoledge of Marxism are limited, if not non-existant. Try studying a bit of the topic before you come here.
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"Marxism is not a dogma. It changes, is enhanced and adapted to the settings of the users time. It accepts no eternal truths. Truth is relative. Therefore, it changes with the time."
Truth remains same irrespective of u me or conditions. Sorry sir, but truth is not subjected to whim and fantasies of u or me. There will always be natural laws showing us that truth is there for always
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"Think how many have died of hunger in USA in last 100 years. I am sure that figure would not be more than in thousands. That is the pure and living example of natural selction!!"
That figure may only be in the thousands but if we look at the number of people who have died of hunger as a result of american capitalism worldwide in the las 100 years we would surely be looking in the hundreds of millions.
It is not as if the USA and the rest of the world are two seperate planets, completely independent of one another. Just because the American government won't allow many of it's own people die of hunger (infact trys to get them to eat as much as possible), it is perfectly willing to starve the rest of the world in order to do it.
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>>>>>All men are created equal, with unalienable rights to the pursuit of liberty, justice, and happiness.(In US constituion)<<<<<
Well, first things first, that's the Declaration of Independence. Secondly, all men are created inequal, but they mean is that all men should be equal before the law.
>>>>>>>That figure may only be in the thousands but if we look at the number of people who have died of hunger as a result of american capitalism worldwide in the las 100 years we would surely be looking in the hundreds of millions.<<<<<<<<<<
Well, first off you have no idea so you might not want to say that. Secondly, the US capitalism doesn't hurt people, it's their foriegn policy.
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One more intersting thing I should mention here is that awhiles back I was reading an old encyclopedia, I believe from the 1950s, and I was amazed by how less negative of a view on communism it portrayed. It even highlighted the Soviet consitition and showed how it had many similar provisions to the US constitution such as freedom of speech and religion. I'm not sure if this was a unique phenomenom, but it to me it indicated that history has been rewritten...
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>>>>I'm not sure if this was a unique phenomenom, but it to me it indicated that history has been rewritten...<<<<
OK, so I suppose every single history book that describes the Red Scare and the US government's response to it (Including the Korean War and Se. Joe McCarthy) was all written by the government, and every person who remembers that was actually brainwashed?
Or, perhaps the fact that encyclopedias rarely take political stances might be influencing what you read.
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No I was just saying how even in a time of high communist suspicion, the 1950s, you could still find historical writings that would give a less negative view of communism then today. The entry in the encylopedia under Russia, for example, I believe didn't even mention the usual Stalin body count figures that are almost mandatory today. It also remember it highlighted the old 4 pioneers of communism banner (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin?) in a pictograph that almost made it look like they were modern day heroes. To me it was interesting to see how much even the academic world's perspective has changed over the years.
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>>>I believe didn't even mention the usual Stalin body count figures that are almost mandatory today.<<<
Well, remember that they didn't have those figures. It isn't like Stalin was periodically releasing newsposts saying "I killed 200 people today, and sent 1,000 heroes to the Siberian work camps".
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Wow, so much stupidity in this thread. I'm going to try to respond to most of the key points - I don't have the time to respond to every stupid post but if anyone would like me to answer I point I didn't answer then just give me the word. The points I'm replying to are bound with asterisks.
First, Floyder:
*****Well I wasnt actually there, but I'd imagine it wasnt nearly as bad in the early days of the Soviet Union as they make it out to be. Some people say up to 60 million died under Stalinist policies without ever really even looking into it, they basically just make up some numbers. If it was really so bad, the system never would have endeared for so long a time.*****
Wasn't as bad as they make it out to be? Dude, Stalin killed 67 million people. Those dissenters who weren't worked to death or executed were imprisoned or sent to asylums. Without even looking into it you say? There has been an incredible amount of research done into the Russian Communist Holocaust and for you to deny or belittle it is the most callous affront to the memory of those who were slaughtered that I can think of. You should be ashamed of yourself. Take a look at these links.
Your last argument, "how could it have been bad if it lasted for so long", shows you have about as much understanding of human history as a rabbit. Man has lived in the most atrocious conditions - harsh, dangerous and tyrannical - for most of his existence on this earth, and only Capitalism has done anything to end the tyranny. Feudalism lasted thousands of years, and man lived a wretched existence by and large, except the privileged noble of course. Why would you be so surprised that the Soviet Communist Holocaust lasted mere decades?
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******but thats the thing when you at communism through a capitalist filter, you never know whats actually true*****
A better way of putting it is to say that when you look at Communism through a RATIONAL filter (Capitalism is fully rational), you know what is almost certainly true and in most cases, you have proof.
*****Certainly there was a real differnce in mindset in the revolutionary days that allowed such fast advances in development*****
The main thing to consider about that precious "mindset" of yours is that it was a mindset which saw human lives as expendible, to be disposed of by the state as it saw fit. Any "developments" made in Communist Russia were made on the back of Capitalist achievements and didn't come anywhere near the achievements made by Capitalist countries, or countries in which man was not enslaved to the state.
***** look at the Soviet Union as an experiment more then anything, which did have more then a few failures. Certainly it can at least show what was wrong with the early communists and what changes are needed in the development of communism.*****
You see such a catastophic period of mindless human slaughter and untold human misery as an "experiement"? What kind of sick monster are you? You ought to be ashamed of yourself, buddy - I rank you as WAY, WAY more scary than any Neo-Nazi, which is saying something. Communism has been and will continue to be confined to the trashcans of history along with all the other barbaric forms of collectivism. Not that psychos like you will have anything to do with it.
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*****Listen, I have heard those figures too (actually I heard 94 million) but people do not consider several things:
1. These nations have been totalitarian military dictatorships. Capitalist military dictatorships have been responsible for terrible things also. E.g. NAZI Germany. It's not Communism that is killing these people*****
First of all, Nazi Germany was a Fascist state which interestingly enough saw itself as Socialist - it was NOT a Capitalist state at all. Capitalism brings peace, not war. Communism IS killing those people, simply because it's not possible to have a "Communist society" unless you ENFORCE it. This is because Communism is reprehensible to most people, who innately feel that their own lives belong to themselves, not to some fictional abstract idea of the "common good". They feel that their lives, their minds and the products of both belong to them as a matter of basic human rights. They don't, in general, take too kindly to being forced to make sacrifices for others. They kind of feel that charity is a personal thing which should be decided by themselves and nobody else. The kind of "pure Communism" most of you delude yourselves with, this kind of "natural commune" in which everyone just does their equal bit towards the "common good" and there is no state - well, how the hell do you expect the whole process of this system - the decisions on what to produce, who does what, who gives what to whom - to go ahead without some kind of centralized state to coordinate and organize it all? To enforce the law and protect people? I think that, at heart, many of you have the romantic idea that if you simply close your eyes real tight and wish hard enough, that everyone will magically turn into a dutiful Communist and live in peace and harmony and that prosperity will somehow rise and we'll end up in Utopia.....folks, it's a horrible, disgusting idea and the very antithesis of human nature.
*****2. In democratic communist states for instance Chille, the standard of living has actually gone up. Chille is a classic example; before Allende 46% of the national income was distributed amoungst 2% of the nation. When Allende was voted in despite a US trade war and a recall of US aid the standard of living went up*****
What the HELL is going on with you people? I can't believe how false your idea of reality is. Chile is anything BUT Communist, it is a mixed Capitalist economy, ie largely based on free trade but with some governmental control in the economy, like America, who incidentally it signed a Free Trade Agreement with a few years ago. It's signed FTA's with many other countries too. This is your "Communist" country? Any increases in standard of living have been down to the Capitalist part of the economy - and the negatives, like high unemployment, have been due to Socialist style labor laws, as is usually the case. Chile still has a lot of poverty, but this poverty is being alleviated slowly and will disappear with more Capitalism, not less. Pinochet, the murderous bastard that he was, still however saved the country from Marxism, which would have been disastrous for the economy and no doubt would have led to the deaths of millions, not just thousands.
*****3. The cost of western capitalistic global imperialism is currently astronomically more lethal, for example 11 million children (under the age of 5) die every year due to poverty. You need to consider where western wealth comes from, the 3rd world*****
Are you kidding me? Seriously - what the hell are you smoking son.....nobody is "starving because of Capitalism". Humans have been starving since the dawn of time. Capitalism didn't create poverty, it inherited it from the earth. And NOTHING in the earth's history has done more to destroy poverty. The evidence for this is so overwhelming that you MUST understand how incredible it is for rational supporters of Capitalism to see so much ignorance and misinformation, purely for the sake of hatred, leveled at the only system in history to REALLY make a difference to the lives of people in this world. Do we even NEED to go into how many times the world infant mortality rate has been slashed since the Industrial Revolution and the birth of technology? Western wealth does NOT come from the 3rd World, in fact Western capital invested in the 3rd world helps the poor there immensely and they will ONLY be rescued further by more Capital investment in them. This is so obvious, a squirrel could understand it, and yet we have this forum right here.....wow
*****4. If you are going to anatomise a ideological, political and economic system please dont rely on the 'track record' based on autocratic regiemes*****
We don't even NEED to do that. Communism, in its pure philosophical form, is evil, immoral and WRONG. I've established this at least 500 times so far in various threads in this forum, go see.
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*****Totalitarian society has the state in full or almost full control over every aspect of society. In communist society there is no state and so, therefore, it is impossible for communist society to be totalitarian. However it is possible for a communist (that is someone who believes that communism will come in the future) to found a totalitarian state and brand it as Communist.*****
It is impossible for Communism to exist as a system without enforcement. As you can probably gather, a hell of a lot of people object to the idea of Communism. They feel, for instance, that their lives belong to themselves and that THEY are responsible for their own productive and economic decisions. Therefore, if you want to establish any kind of Communism you have to enforce it. And that means a state. And as you can see if you look at history HONESTLY, Communism has always been an idea paved with "good intentions" and "altruism" and the "common good" as a goal and has ALWAYS, without fail, led to relative poverty, oppression, and often mass slaughter. All for the "common good". It's the entire mindset of leftism, to be general. Manifest on such a scale, it's incredibly evil and destructive and sinister.
*****Because the founder of communism, Karl Marx, used a positivistic approach in his critique of history and the social changes within it, he was able to give convincing predictions as to what course history would or should take. What Marx basically attempts to do is use scientific methodology to define society, so he can say that in the past x has = y, x is happening now and so therefore as a result y will happen.
This is a very vague answer but if I went into any more detail I’d go on for ever, if you want to know the basics of Marxist communism then read ‘The German Ideology’. If it’s to complex (which Marx can be at first reading) then there is an abridged version at http://www.btinternet.com/~glynhughes/squashed/marx.htm.*****
Karl Marx has been proven wrong, and his ideas are flawed from the very start. He didn't respect basic individual rights, which start first and foremost with property rights. Therefore, his theory was anti-human and disgusting.
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*****How has the opposite happened, no countries have ‘adopted’ communism. Marx is not the be all and end all of communist thought and he wasn’t completely correct. Lenin, Marx and Trotsky all argued that capitalism is self defeating.*****
Capitalism is self-defeating? The undeniable empirical evidence proves otherwise. Common sense shows otherwise. Lenin, Marx and Trotsky all argued.....but their arguments were WRONG.
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*****
The perfect communist society would be peacefull. The road to achieve it is bloody.*****
The perfect Communist society would entail everyone living like ants and enslaved to some "common good", the human equivalent to an ant hill. This is a disgraceful way for humans to waste themselves. The road to achieve THIS is bloody, yes. It's just incredible how many people still believe it's a good idea.
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*****1. The theory of Marx is correct on many accounts. The fact that it didn't happen in the USSR proves it. Besides, he never said it would take only one or two years to establish a Communist society. It can take years till it happens.*****
The theory of Marx is correct on NO accounts, especially morally. Communist societies don't happen, because people resist them for all they're worth. That's when the bloodshed starts.
*****2. Marxism is not a dogma. It changes, is enhanced and adapted to the settings of the users time. It accepts no eternal truths. Truth is relative. Therefore, it changes with the time.*****
Actually, truth is NOT "relative". Anyone believes it is has no intellectual integrity at all. There is an objective world around you, and causation is a fact of existence. Reason is supreme. The only reason why Marxism changes is because its dwindling proponents keep twisting it to evade a new fact of reality and a new turn of history. The changes are just one big desperate rationalization attempt. It won't work. Marxism is dead. The intelligent knew that from the start.
*****3. All those figures and description of the USSR from wikipedia are taken from Bourgeois websites, historians, etc. It is mere propaganda, clerverly played by the Capitalist, as Dennis McKinsey clearly states in his book 'The relevance of Marxism'. There is no actual proof of this 'death toll and count' in the USSR. No one will show you the official Soviet documents or anything like it, because they know that they contain nothing of what they allege.******
There has been extensive and extremely thorough research done into the horrors of the Soviet Union, and those who evade the truth are playfully toying with the seeds of an evil ideology which in practice kills man and stagnates his progress, in contrast to Capitalism which has doubled mans lifespan and been the cause of untold improvements in human existence.
*****4. The OPs information and knoledge of Marxism are limited, if not non-existant. Try studying a bit of the topic before you come here.*****
On the contrary, it is the Marxists in this forum who need to do their homework. Political, historical, philosophical, economic, social homework. Because sooner or later you're all going to have to face reality.
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*****That figure may only be in the thousands but if we look at the number of people who have died of hunger as a result of american capitalism worldwide in the las 100 years we would surely be looking in the hundreds of millions.*****
This is nothing short of a lie; a smear pulled from thin air. The writer can not claim to be on the side of humanity, since Capitalism has been instrumental in improving the existence of people all over the world, people who had previously been living lives of wretched subsistence. The technological revolution has done more to improve mans life than anything. NONE of this was the result of Socialism or Communism, it was ALL as a result of man living free and trading with other people on mutually agreed terms.
Why don't you give us a breakdown of your "100 millions" figure? Or is this just a.....complete guess? Or, a.......complete lie? Who has Capitalism killed? Capitalism brings prosperity and peace. I repeat....who is Capitalism killing?
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*****A foreign policy used by a government in favour for US Capitalism.*****
The US government is NOT in favor of Capitalism, it is in favor of state controls, just like leftists. The current US government has absolutely nothing to do with Capitalism at all, in fact they're more fascist than Capitalist.
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*****One more intersting thing I should mention here is that awhiles back I was reading an old encyclopedia, I believe from the 1950s, and I was amazed by how less negative of a view on communism it portrayed. It even highlighted the Soviet consitition and showed how it had many similar provisions to the US constitution such as freedom of speech and religion. I'm not sure if this was a unique phenomenom, but it to me it indicated that history has been rewritten......
No I was just saying how even in a time of high communist suspicion, the 1950s, you could still find historical writings that would give a less negative view of communism then today. The entry in the encylopedia under Russia, for example, I believe didn't even mention the usual Stalin body count figures that are almost mandatory today. It also remember it highlighted the old 4 pioneers of communism banner (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin?) in a pictograph that almost made it look like they were modern day heroes. To me it was interesting to see how much even the academic world's perspective has changed over the years.*****
Dude, at that time they had NO idea whatsoever of just how many killings were going on in Russia, nor did they have any idea as to the extent of the slavery that was Communism, or the extent of the evil that was Lenin. And we've had decades of proof and common sense to see how wrong Marx was.
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You speak about the Soviet Union as if it were no longer around. I made that mistake a few years ago, when I was a regular on this site. Since then, I've become and activist. In the course of my activism I've learned that the Republican Party is NOT conservative! In fact, the whole left/right paradigm is phony as well! Both Dim-ocrats and Repukes serve the same masters-- the international bankers!
The USSR is alive and well! Everything is going according to the commie's masterplan. Soon they are going to try to smash us with the iron fist. I've been down to the border 8 different times now in 3 different states. I've seen what's coming across, and what's already here. In the very near future our currency will collapse, then all of the sleeper cells of commies and terrorists will be activated! The result will be a brief period of chaos with a lot of bloodshed. God only knows what will happen then.
I can only speak for myself when I say to the commies: "You will have to deal with me, and I intend to be a problem for you! A BIG problem!!! See you on the battlefield."
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The neocons are definitely Statists, and in some ways they have Marxist roots, but they also behave a lot like Fascists too. They come nowhere near being supporters of Capitalism and individual rights. They are also in cahoots with big business and favor corporate welfare and other things which would not be allowed in a Laissez-faire Capitalist society.
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Stillborne2kill, your experiences are very similar to mine. I was with the Republicans for 15 years before I realised they don't stand for the American way any more than the communists and environmentalists and other left wing wackos do. Its good to hear the voice of someone who speaks for real Americans. I think you should set up a forum of your own to make it all the easier to spread your message of truth, ever considered it? I look forward to hearing from you again, together we'll think out a plan to give America back to the Americans.
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I see the commies have no response to our watertight arguments.
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stillbornetokill (no login)
The Plan Is Under Way
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April 20 2007, 4:55 PM
The commies don't know it yet, but they have already been undone. When the international bankers are done using the commies, they will be swept aside just like the capitalists! As for my plan, it is underway. Plan A: Educate my countrymen. Plan B: War!
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Floyder (no login)
Re: Admit it
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May 5 2007, 4:13 PM
"Wasn't as bad as they make it out to be? Dude, Stalin killed 67 million people. Those dissenters who weren't worked to death or executed were imprisoned or sent to asylums. Without even looking into it you say? There has been an incredible amount of research done into the Russian Communist Holocaust and for you to deny or belittle it is the most callous affront to the memory of those who were slaughtered that I can think of. You should be ashamed of yourself. Take a look at these links."
If I wasnt actually there theres no way I could know what the true experience of living in Communist Russia was. If I saw first hand evidence I would feel a little differently. Besides during the height of the depression all countries were facing negative conditions.
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