Is it too late?

Read My Ears

http://www.nytimes.com


By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Berlin

Having spent the last 10 days traveling to Britain, France, Germany and Switzerland, I have one small suggestion for President Bush. I suggest that when he comes to Europe to mend fences next month he give only one speech. It should be at his first stop in Brussels and it should consist of basically three words: "Read my ears."

Let me put this as bluntly as I can: There is nothing that the Europeans want to hear from George Bush, there is nothing that they will listen to from George Bush that will change their minds about him or the Iraq war or U.S. foreign policy. Mr. Bush is more widely and deeply disliked in Europe than any U.S. president in history. Some people here must have a good thing to say about him, but I haven't met them yet.

In such an environment, the only thing that Mr. Bush could do to change people's minds about him would be to travel across Europe and not say a single word - but just listen. If he did that, Mr. Bush would bowl the Europeans over. He would absolutely disarm and flummox people here - and improve his own image markedly. All it would take for him would be just a few words: "Read my ears. I have come to Europe to listen, not to speak. I will give my Europe speech when I come home - after I've heard what you have to say."


...Listening is also a sign of respect. It is a sign that you actually value what the other person might have to say. If you just listen to someone first, it is amazing how much they will listen to you back. Most Europeans, though, are convinced that George Bush is deaf - that he cannot listen or hear. Just proving that he is not deaf, and therefore the Europeans don't have to shout, would do wonders for Mr. Bush's standing.

... Many young Europeans blame Mr. Bush for making America, since 9/11, into a strange new land that exports fear more than hope, and has become dark and brooding - a place whose greeting to visitors has gone from "Give me your tired, your poor" to "Give me your fingerprints." They look at Mr. Bush as someone who stole something precious from them.

Tim Kreutzfeldt, the bar owner, said to me: "Bush took away our America. I mean we love America. We are very sad about America. We believe in America and American values, but not in Bush. And it makes us angry that he distorted our image of the country which is so important to us. It is not what America stands for - and this makes us angry and it should make every American angry, because America lost so much in its reputation worldwide." The Bush team, he added, is giving everyone in the world the impression that "somebody is coming to kill you."

Stefan Elfenbein, a food critic nursing a beer at our table, added: "I know many people who don't want to travel to America anymore. ... People are afraid to be hassled at the border. ... We all discuss it, when somebody goes to America [we now ask:] 'Are you sure?' We had hope that Kerry would win and would make a statement, 'America is back to what it was four years ago.' We hoped that he would be the symbol, the figure who would say, '[America] is the country that welcomes everybody again.' [But] now we have to wait four more years, hopefully for somebody to give us back the country we knew and liked."

...

Oh, so the Europeans don't like the way America is? Boo hoo. The writer must assume that Americans actually give a flying f@3k what Europeans think.

So America has become a dark, fearful place, has it? Fine, let the Euros take their tourism to other sunshiney places like Iran, North Korea or Russia. I'm one American who doesn't really care to ever visit their countries, and it would be just fine with me if they extended the same courtesy to us.

It's not America that needs restoring, but rather that decadent, cowardly sh#thole of Europe.

Hooter has the perfect answer to Europe:

Act like nation of morons.

Oh, here we go again. I've seen the same tactic used ad nauseaum by lefties on every forum I've ever been on. Take what I say and twist it to the point where we eventually end up at some unrelated tangent, all because you don't have any real counter-argument.

That horse won't run, my boy. Oh, since I'm talking about a horse, you represent its @ss. Despite your love of big, obscure words in a pathetic attempt to demonstrate your "intelligence", your level of political sophistication amounts to nothing more than the stock answer of "Bush lied" to any question, whether it be Iraq, Social Security or tax cuts.

SSDD. Get with it or get lost, boy.

you guys seem to be a bit upset about something here, Whats with all the hatred towards about 15 different countries that you have no idea about maybe thats your problem or maybe your annoyed because for once nearly all euro countries didn't follow America into war? And even the ones who did you dont show any respect for. By the way there is a slight difference between all the countries that u have labbelled as europian, Maybe u should experiance other people's cultures and have the patiance to look at thing from other people's perspective and stop being ingonrorant and shallow streotypical usaians?

ThAmEs

Carpe, what are you babbling about? Jesus Christ, learn some proper spelling, will you?

Oh i'm awfully sorry about that, I was just trying to ask you a question but I can see with a name like hooter I'm not going to get much from you, All I expect from you is silence and maybe a petty ignorant comment.

Well, your spelling has improved, but obviously you like run-on sentences and minimal punctuation. Grammar-wise, you're quite shaky.

I guess your not gong to answer my question then, Your going to keep trailing off and tip-toeing around it?

Hello everyone,

apart from spelling, punctuation and actual nationality, I think people who post here chose this forum because it bears the title "conservative". Whoever posts here knows that the majority of the participants agree with what Mr. Bush says and does. The statement above aimed at starting a dialogue about how the current situation could be remedied. There is no use in flaming. I myself visited this site because I wanted to know what is behind the picture that the US currently leave behind. This means: although I passionately disagree with the Bush administration, I do know that the Americans are not, as such, murderous bastards seeking to dominate the world. They are (or, since the majority here is certainly from the US: you are) no fools.
But there are grievious differences in how this world could be made a better place. There even is a view saying that attempting to change such a thing as "The World", it'll take more than 270.000.000 people with a vision.

I was seeking discussion and, thus, explanation. What does the term freedom mean to conservative Americans? This certainly is one of the key questions I would have liked to post if I had not read the flame posts above.

As I said, I am convinced that there are people out there who can answer to this post without using any insults. Would you be so kind?

Yours,

Christian

PS: Don't laugh about my spelling, grammar or punctuation unless your German or French is really, really good....

Good start, mate! Chanting doesn't help, though. You may know a bloke called von Clausewitz. His ideas are tought at Westpoint, in case you wonder whether this was some strange pacifist. His most famous statement was that war was the continuation of diplomacy with other means.

Whilst you claim to be born to kill, are you prepared to die for just about nothing? No? Got a wive, then? Like watching football matches on saturday afternoons?
Sounds much better than dying in some Iraqi street because you angered some bloke with a towel round his head, doesn't it?

What if all it took was to start a dialogue and see if differences could be settled first (to quote your quote)?

So, as you can see, I'm all for dialogue.

Chanting, no. If I started to sing, I'd propably get the cell next to Milosevic in The Hague.

But that's propably a personal problem.

DissChris

Why is it all or nothing?

How can someone agree with everything the Bush administration does? Not everyone is always correct. Nor is someone or group always wrong. America has made many mistakes throughout history and will continue to do so in the future. It is the responsibility of the American people to hold our government responsible for what it does. that

The "if you don't like what America, and Bush do, then F you" attitude is sooo ignorant and intollerant. It is this attitude that is dragging this country down and why we have become so hated around the world. It is unamerican. Like for many of the europeans, America is becomming increasingly unrecognizable to Americans.

People can't even protest against our government's decisions without being targeted by extremists. Try to hold an anti-Bush sign along a route he travels and you risk arrest and prosecution for expressing free speach outside a free speach zone. Crazy!


I know. I know. F me. Why don't I just move to europe. I'm an unpatriotic communist bastard....

Why is it all or nothing?

How can someone agree with everything the Bush administration does? Not everyone is always correct. Nor is someone or group always wrong. America has made many mistakes throughout history and will continue to do so in the future. It is the responsibility of the American people to hold our government responsible for what it does. that

The "if you don't like what America, and Bush do, then F you" attitude is sooo ignorant and intollerant. It is this attitude that is dragging this country down and why we have become so hated around the world. It is unamerican. Like for many of the europeans, America is becomming increasingly unrecognizable to Americans.

People can't even protest against our government's decisions without being targeted by extremists. Try to hold an anti-Bush sign along a route he travels and you risk arrest and prosecution for expressing free speach outside a free speach zone. Crazy!


I know. I know. F me. Why don't I just move to europe. I'm an unpatriotic communist bastard....

who gives a **** what the euro-scum think?This is our country,not theirs-most of us are DESCENDED from euro-scum,but we shook the dust of europe off GENERATIONS ago,and became a truly unique people-AMERICANS-and immigrants from around the world want to come HERE-gee,go figger.....as far as the euros opinion on the war in Iraq,**** 'em-its been an American show from the beginning-and will continue to be one-being a veteran of both desert Storm and Operation Iraqi freedom,I sure don't remember seeing any eurofaggot "alies" doing a damn thing!It was OUR guys who drove the Iraqis from Kuwait in 91,and toppled Sadam in 2003.

Oh this is just too easy....Restore America???? Poison all the street drugs and all the libral scum will die off in a few days...Nuff said...

"I sure don't remember seeing any eurofaggot "alies" doing a damn thing!It was OUR guys who drove the Iraqis from Kuwait in 91,and toppled Sadam in 2003."


--maybe because we're not interested in oil as much, hmmm, maybe that faggot Berlusconi should listen to his people a little more and stop kissing Bush's ass--

Fortunately for G. Bush, Sgt. Major, that plan wasn't implimented earlier.))
Yours,
Issodhos

When am I ever going to meet a conservative today who will present some actual arguments, back up their claims with facts that they have researched, and some real political thought. If a conservatives first thought is "what!! This person doens't like the direction America is headed in?!! F**k him!!" Then what's is the point of even being on this forum if you are not open to other people's political opinions and political discussions? "Poison all the street drugs and all the libral scum will die off in a few days" This is too easy. A genius comment made to assuage someones own political misgivings and stated for either a laugh or shock value.

As for you Cavtroopper: Are you saying that because we are Americans we are somehow different from another human being? What difference does it make if I was born in Iraq but lived my life in America? Does that make me any less of a person? And did you know that Europe has a higher standard of living than America?

And by the way I do love our country. Except for the slavery thing and the indian genocide thing our country has had a pretty good track record.

But I digress, I beleive that we should give a flying f@3k what Europeans think. We never "gave a flying f@3k" what Muslims thought either and now look where we are. The reason they hate us is because we don't give a flying f@3k.

Hooter: If your brand of "political sophistication" is calling another poster an @ss then you are no better than the person you insult.

Well chris in NC your question is a valid one:

The average American today wants their politician to be perfect all, if not, most of the time. The average person will begin to consider their favorite politicaian as a God-like character who can do no wrong and if a politician does do wrong or is wrong then the average person doesn't like him or her anymore. This sentiment was touched on very masterfully, if a little unfairly, in John Kerry's case. Because Kerry seemed to "flip-flop" postions so many times the republicans jumped on him as "indecisive". "Changing your mind" too has become a taboo act in the minds of many Americans. If a politician changes his mind then they most have been wrong and if he wrong then he is not good and perfect.

Today things are becoming more black and white and less grey than ever. Sweeping generalizations like "all muslims hate America" and "if you criticize the president then you are un-patriotic". I just pity the state America is in nowadays.

The EU is the European equivalent of the USSR in terms of being a deathtrap of Leftist. (Please note, I will not give Leftists my language, they are not Liberals, they say they are liberals, of course, would you elect someone who said, "Hey, can I ruin your country with Big Government?")


That said, I have one question. I ask it earnestly.

I understand that Bush is pro-War. I am pro-War, I worked with an Iraqi, I went out of my way to pick his brains, you won't believe me but the 1st thing he told me was to watch the movie Red Dawn and said Americans have no clue, that type of scenario is far more likely than you Americans think.

Then he told me all about how Saddam was a Marxist and a client state of the Soviets. That is why Saddam's army, the 4th largest in the world, was made up of Soviet T-series tanks and soldiers sportiing Soviet AK machine guns, etc.

He told me what it's like to live under a fully State Run economy, where all your phone calls are piped through the State Telephone agency and are transcribed by Mukabarat agents. He told me his neighbor woman got a knock on her door because she had complained over the phone to her girl friend that Saddam had raised the price of eggs, and now she couldn't make cookies for her kids. He saw a man tortured before his eyes. Uday Hussein was rushing through the back allies of Baghdad, on a short cut or something, and this guy didn't scurry out of the way fast enough with his tail between his legs. So they stopped the whole frigging motorcade outside of my co-worker's house, and they threw him to the ground and told him (remember, Saddam had torture chambers and people disappeared all the time), "Don't move, don't say a word, don't even breathe". Then they beat the crap out of him, dead silent the entire time, until he passed out from self inflicted asphyxiation. I guess he was lucky they were in a hurry and had bigger fish to fry...

Saddam's Iraq was colored into the Soviet Socialist bloc in the Great Soviet Encyclopedias they used in school. And he told me about the early part of the Iran-Iraq War, and how he thought Iraq had almost conquered Iran.

Now do you see why the Soviets beefed up his army? Saddam was a Soviet client. A Soviet Client sitting on 15% of the World's Oil.

Then he almost conquers another 10% in Iran.

Then he conquers another 5-10% in Kuwait (until evicted in 1991).

And he did threaten Saudi Arabia, another 20% of the World's Oil.

A Soviet client state almost got situated on top of ~50% of all the world's oil.

This war isn't about oil? It always been about Oil, why do you think Soviet Russia and Red China backed Hussein back then? And which 2 countries are growing fat and rich selling arms to the Hussein loyalists???????

You say the Cold War is over. FYI, just so you hear it, your vocal chords do not intimidate either the Kremlin or Beijing, sorry man, I truly wish they did, but they don't. The Chinese and Russians are currently reconstituting their Cold War alliances with Latin America. They are planning to build, not a 500,000 man army, but a 3,000,000 man army.

You say the Cold War is over. Your "Dune" style voice-shout will not stop 3,000,000 Communist Venezuelans and Cubans. Again, I wish they would, truly, but I won't put my money on it, sorry.

My point is, Saddam was not just "an evil bastard"...

He was a "an evil Communist bastard", and his Brutalitarianism was just par for the course. Note his Stalin-style mustache, and his Stalin-style murals, posters, and statues around Baghdad, emulating his idol.

Hussein killed at least 300,000 Iraqis in his 30 years of power, that's 10,000 per year.

According to IraqBodyCount.org, 30,000 Iraqis have died in the past 3 years... _that is still 10 thousand per year_

See? Even with Saddam loyalists (ie, Commies) blowing up civilians at market, rampantly, every day...

Saddam still is barely keeping even with his Terror pace when he was in power!

So, Saddam needs to go. He is more than an evil ****. He is an evil Commie Red **** allied with Communist China and her "Peace Mission 2005" war-games partner, "Democratic" Russia. (Ever been to Russia, know how they are suffering under their crime state government?)

So, I am pro-War. And I understand Bush is pro-War.

But I do have one earnest question...

*How sure are you that Bush is actually truly pro Victory too*


(There is, technically, a difference between me wanting you to go fight and fight and fight and expend costly munitions that my family's Carlyle Group sells you and your Government...

...and me just wanting you to Go, Fight Win and come home.)

I forgot to mention that one of Bush's former "Neo-Conservative" ( = heavy on Neo, light on Con) buddies recently called Bush a "Leninist".

Communist Red China, already awash in HUMAN HISTORY's LARGEST TRADE SURPLUS with America...

Is further profitting hand over fist selling arms to the insurgents...

As the war drags on...

America hemorrhages money...

All to Commie Red China...

And the guy in charge is called a "Leninist"...


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