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Controversy! 5059 nicer than 5050 Roman

November 25 2006 at 5:40 AM
JC  (Login JCY88)
PP Discussion Group

I bet no one expected someone to say that right?!!! 5050 is an icon in the PP range of perpetuals

But I got to play with and look at the 5050 with Roman dial in a lot more detail and I have to say I prefer the 5059 which is also a Roman dial.

Why?
1) For some reason i feel that the raised roman digits looks like it took up a lot of space on the dial. i think the digits in the 5059 might be a little smaller. Also being raised it made the 5050 digits look bigger.

2) It felt a little small. not that the 5059 is much bigger or that i like bigger watches. maybe the minute track on the outside of the 5059 actually addes to the perception that it is bigger than it really is.

3) Its not my favourite Patek case. The officers case on the 5059 is one of my favs, and i almost got the 5053 just for that reason (thats before i bought the FJP CS )

What I liked..... the thin case. its much thinner than the 5059 which i liked..... and this is very important since it wears better with shirts!

Anyhow, i realise that mine is not the common opinion on the 5059 vs 5050 discussion since most seem to prefer the 5050. I think I will like the non-Roman 5050 better, but i would still prefer my 5059.

Just sharing some of my thoughts! I love my 5059!

 
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SteveS in NJ
(Login SteveSinNJ)
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My thoughts are I'll take any 5050 in any configuration >>>

November 25 2006, 6:45 AM 

over any 5059. Like you, this is my personal opinion, just 100% opposite of yours

 
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WatchFan1_onTZ
(Login WatchFan1)
PP Discussion Group

Same here...5050 hands down...

November 26 2006, 11:55 AM 


....I'd take 5050 over 5059 anyday - even if both would be with Romans.

nice clean dial 5050 with batons vs. 5059 witk Romans - NO contest for me
IMO, 5059 dial with Romans looks busy...and it shouldn't be, considering the
perp. calendar incorporates appertures and not subdials.






_See Rolex Wallpapers & Technical Data about most current Rolex models: HERE_

 
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autowind
(Login autowind)
AP Discussion Group

Disagree. . .

November 26 2006, 2:55 PM 

That's what I thought until I saw the 5059 in metal.

I'm not a fan of Roman numerals and generally prefer baton markers, however, the dial of the 5059 is exquisite and beautifully proportioned. The 5050 actually looks "too plain" when compared to the 5059.

The case seals it for me. In fact, after I saw the 5059 in person , I bought one!

 
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Zane
(Login jzh)
PP Discussion Group

5059 for me

November 25 2006, 7:07 AM 

Given the choice based on its design I would go for 5059 as I've never liked the design of 5050.

 
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arolex
(Login watchesap)
PP Discussion Group

5050 hands down, prefer the calatrava case..

November 25 2006, 9:20 AM 

and overall design of the watch.

 
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tahoeblue
(Login tahoeblue)
PP Discussion Group

I love both refs

November 25 2006, 10:08 AM 

and if price were no consideration, I would definitely take the 5050. But I have to say all things considered, I would certainly love to have a 5059 in my collection.

The perpetual calendar/retrograde complication is beautiful and legible. Might we see this again at Basel, this time in a larger case?? If I am not mistaken, the 5059 has been discontinued, but I don't recall for certain.

 
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JC
(Login JCY88)
PP Discussion Group

yep.......

November 25 2006, 2:58 PM 

i think someon started the discotinuation of 5059 before this years Basel, but it did not get announced. The PP london boutique told me that it was being stopped now, but will prob still get this ref filtering through to the market over the next year, but the 5059 is sadly no more!

I think any new reference will not be in the officers case, so mabe go back to a variant of the calatrava case and a little bigger..... i dont think they have brought out a new reference with officers case for a very long time.... and there is only maybe 1 other ref with it now aside from the 5059, but i cant remember..

 
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linus
(Login linusm)
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Re: Controversy! 5059 nicer than 5050 Roman

November 26 2006, 4:04 AM 

I vote hands down for the 5059 too. To me it seems the 5050 cannot decide whether it wants to present a simple dial or a complicated dial and gets hung up somewhere in between. The 5059 is a beautiful watch, solid and really not that thick sitting on my very tiny wrist. I have had no problems with it getting stuck on shirt sleeves. I had a chnace some years ago to buy a 5050 (before even the 5059 was out) and decided against it as it did not really appeal to me on my wrist even then. I think the rumors about the 5059 being discontinued are probably just that - rumors, but if true, that is really too bad as it is a great watch.

 
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Shattuck86
(Login shattuck86)
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Any of these would be great for my collection...

November 27 2006, 3:26 AM 

and in reality the 5059 is much more obtainable.

 
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jtbradley
(Login jtbradley)
PP Discussion Group

I can't help but think that the 5050 gets a lot of press on its rarity alone

November 27 2006, 1:55 PM 

The 5059 seems like a more harmonious design. The 5050, while surely nice, seems highly sought after and revered in large part due to its rarity. The irony is that if the 5050 was liked more and sold in higher quantities in the past, it wouldn't be as rare, as desired or as expensive. The 5059 seems like a popular model and as a consequence, they are readily available.

Is this a case where a tepid market response = rarity = desire, hot pursuit and rapidly increasing prices? Seems like it to me...all IMO, of course.

John

 
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JC
(Login JCY88)
PP Discussion Group

My Instints - 5050 not that rare vs 5059?

November 27 2006, 4:56 PM 

My twisted (? )line of thoughts!

1) 5050 made from 1994/95-ish to 2001/02-ish (6-7 yeras). This was when the 5059 started (4-5 years so far). So assuming tht they were made at the same rate, there should be less 5059 at the moment right? For many reasons this might not be the case......
2) ... which leads me to the case! With the 5059 the officers case I assume is more difficult to make so the time taken to make each 5059 should also take longer.....
3) Is the 5059 that popular? I always see many many 5059 in the shops. Its never a model you have to wait for like the 5070/3970/5970. So the numbers made and sold might be lower than expected.

The flaws in my argument!
1) Of course mechanical watches are sold in larger quantities now so production per year higher
2) PP themsleves properly have more than 2x as many watch makers and staff than the period when they were making the 5050, so product for 5059 per yera could be higher.

Conculsion: I dont know!
My gut tells me that the 5059 didnt sell very very well due to all the stock i see available. Certainly when I speak with AD's in Asia, they dont say its flying out of the doors. of course I also see many 3940's and we all know that model sells very well! BUT Antiquorum says that very few 5050 Romans were made (i was surprised at the small number) but they do not talk about the stick marker 5050

My Preferences! I have already said that I prefer the 5059. More avante garde. If money were no issue given then the choice of a Roman 5050 or 5059, I still choose 5059! so I am very very happy !!

 
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jtbradley
(Login jtbradley)
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Don't know the answers to your questions/speculations

November 28 2006, 9:08 AM 

I don't know all the answers to your questions/speculations, but considering that Patek's complicated watches are not assembly-line pieces and there is often a wait to get complicated pieces through ADs--in other words, it's much more of a made-to-order piece--I suspect that the rarity of the 5050 reflects the fact that there was low demand for it while it was offered by Patek.

The sheer supply of the 5059 makes me think that it's indeed a very popular piece, though not difficult to obtain. If it wasn't popular, why would Patek be making so many? Companies often estimate demand incorrectly, but I doubt you'll see Patek making 1,000 perpetual calendars and hoping they sell. The bigger sellers, generally speaking, will be produced in higher quantities. Of course, other factors come into play such as limited watchmaker expertise (and limited watchmakers) and movement supply limitations as in the case of the 5970, both of which may contribute to its relative scarcity (but even the 5970 can be readily found on the grey market if you're willing to pay the freight and accept the attendant risks).

I don't think this is a new concept in the art world. Tepid initial market response leads to rarity which itself sometimes leads to desire, a hot item and high prices. It is a shame because market participants are ostensibly reacting to rarity and price rather than an understanding and appreciation of the values and work of the artist as embodied in the piece of art.

John

 
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Steve in CA
(Login SteveinCA)
PP Discussion Group

Love the 5050 Roman

November 27 2006, 3:14 PM 

This may be my favorite non-chrono perpetual. I usually don't like Roman numerals--but something about this watch grabs me. In fact I prefer the Romans to the batons in this watch. Unfortunately the current market price is just too high for me to stomach, so I'm not going to even think about buying one. But the alternative for me is not a 5059. It will be either 3940, 5140, or something else with a second hand.

 
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