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Over the knee punishments.

July 27 2002 at 12:59 PM
James 

 
Has anyone found any references to otk punishments on the friends reunited site or...dare i ask it! Has anyone any first hand accounts. It was the sort of thing that was often threatened but something i never actually witnessed at school.

 
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Joe

Re: Over the knee punishments.

July 27 2002, 2:26 PM 

Hi, who was threatened and by who, were boys ever threatened with smacked bums or was it always girls?

 
 
Lizzy

Re: Re: Over the knee punishments.

July 27 2002, 2:58 PM 

There were certanly some male teachers out there that beleived that smacking girls bottoms was favrable to caning, strapping, slippering them etc. as it involved less pain and was mostly reliant of humiliation (esspecially when given by a man) which for girls is far more of a deterant than for boys. This also didn't leave marks, And as said before it didn't have to be entered into a punishment book as it wasn't regarded as corporal punishment and more as just keeping class order. Of corse this was mostly only used for the younger girls probably up to fifteen, so I think most of the story's of sixth form girls spanked bare bottom over sirs knee are pure fantasy, but who knows for sure?

 
 
Brian

If Only!

July 27 2002, 3:39 PM 

There was a really posh private High School for girls in town when I was an impressionable male teen and in those days, back in the 1960s, the girls at that school all wore a traditional school uniform including short black pleated skirts and white knee high socks. It was a fact that the Headmaster there was very much “of the old school” and rumours about his disciplinary systems were always very much on the town grapevine. The suggestion was that a good few of his upper class girls had spent time across his knee with their short skirts raised for the smack of firm discipline. I doubt very much that any of these stories were true but they fuelled many a teenage fantasy for yours truly.

 
 
Sarajane

Re: Re: Re: Over the knee punishments.

July 27 2002, 3:40 PM 

Lizzy,

You think most of the stories about sixth form girls spanked bare bottom over Sir's knee are pure fantasy?

Well, given that most of the stories about ANY girls being spanked ANYwhere at ANYtime by ANY one in ANY way are pure fantasy - I tend to agree with you!

 
 
Sarajane

Re: If Only!

July 27 2002, 4:04 PM 

Brian,

If it's any consolation, I can assure you that schoolgirls (upper class and otherwise) fantasise about BEING spanked, usually by attractive teachers.


 
 
Lizzy

Re: Re: Re: Re: Over the knee punishments.

July 27 2002, 4:27 PM 

Most yes but certanly not all, In my primary school girls and boys both got smacked bottoms from the headmaster when we were very naughty, and that is very much the truth.

 
 
Ralphy

East Dulwich

July 27 2002, 5:04 PM 

On the Friends Reunited site:

Heber Primary School - message entitled '1964-In Trouble' written by Maureen Joyce.

An example of mild flagellation in yet another South London school.

 
 
Sarajane

Re: East Dulwich/What's it all about, Ralphy?

July 27 2002, 5:19 PM 

Ralphy,

Far be it from me to suggest you should have spent 2 seconds of your time copying and pasting the aforementioned FR message for the edification of your fellow readers but . . . er . . . why didn't you?

It's a lovely little story and it goes like this:

"1964 - In Trouble . . . . . . . .Added by Maureen Joyce

Does anyone remember Mrs. Crafter? I was milk monitor when a boy (can't remember his name) starting pushing me off end of double seat on to the floor and I got into trouble. Protested and got thrown out of class, slammed the door and a boy called Steven (can't remember last name) was sent to show me how to shut properly several times but I would not so Mrs. Crafter called me in and put me across her knee and hit me with a slipper - still slammed the door because all was unfair".

I think we'll find lots of stories of F/f otk spanking in primary schools and even a few M/f stories in primary schools.

But M/f otk in secondary school is so obviously sexual abuse that I cannot believe any Education Authority in the UK could ever have countenanced it.


Title edited by Ralphy.


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Jul 27, 2002 5:51 PM


 
 
Big Jim

Re: Re: East Dulwich/What's it all about, Ralphy?

July 27 2002, 7:39 PM 

Hi Sarajane,

Why do you think otk spanking my male teachers is sexual abuse? We all know girls who were slippered on the bottom by male teachers don't we. So whats so different about a slippering and a spanking? lets face it a slippering is just a spanking with a slipper isn't it? and although I agree that bare bottoms spankings would be abuse I can't see why a otk spanking with knickes or knickers and skirt in place would be abuse. Iv'e punished my own daughter that way and never seen it as abuse.

 
 
Sarajane

Re: Re: Re: East Dulwich/What's it all about, Ralphy?

July 27 2002, 8:07 PM 

Big Jim,

It might be just a little thing but the difference between spanking a girl as she bends over and spanking her as she lies across your lap is basically that when she's bent over your penis is a long way away from her and when she's over your lap it's digging into her lower abdomen.

Or hadn't you noticed?

 
 
Big Jim

Re: Re: Re: Re: East Dulwich/What's it all about, Ralphy?

July 28 2002, 1:31 AM 

Sara Jane I hope your not suggesting what I think you are? I realise now what I said about my daughter soulds like I spanked her yesterday or something but I didn't she's thirty six now. I only smacked up to the age of about fifteen which I think is fairly normal. Sara Jane I understand why you are against spankings done by male teachers when the girl was over his knee, but as far as I remeber from rumours of punishments when I was at school spanking were often given with the girl or younger boy bending over not in the otk possision at all but just hands on knees and smacked over the skirt or shorts in the case of boys by male and female teachers no different then a slippering but without as much pain, and of corse no penal obstrucsions Sara Jane, what could you have agains that?

 
 
Sarajane

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: East Dulwich/What's it all about, Ralphy?

July 28 2002, 8:46 AM 

Morning Jim,

I have to say I find immense difficulty in accepting that many girls of 15 were spanked in Western Europe (or indeed in most of the rest of the world) over their fathers' knees in 1980. For you to suggest that it was 'fairly normal' is, I suspect, some way off the mark.

The relationship between fathers and daughters is fraught with sexual undertones, sexual overtones, and lots of other sexual tones.

As a girl grows from babyhood, there comes a time at which it becomes wholly inappropriate for there to be intimate contact (either direct or indirect) between her and her father. That time is WELL BEFORE her 15th birthday.

The same may be said in even stronger terms of a girl's relationship with other mature males, and particularly those males under whose authority she may from time to time find herself.

Clearly, in such circumstances, contact does not have to be direct - wearing a condom or surgical gloves during intimate contact with a child does not render it acceptable.

In the same way, the intimacy of such contact is not removed by the intervention of a layer (or two or three or four) of clothing; and, just as the intervention of a glove between the hand and the girl's body does not remove the intimacy of the contact - neither does the intervention of a slipper or any other instrument of punishment.

In such circumstances, the instrument serves merely to extend the hand rather than to replace it.

I think we can safely say that anyone who cannot see the sexuality inherent in spanking will probably NOT be reading postings on this forum. I think we can also say that anyone who thinks fatherhood or a teaching certificate removes that sexuality is fooling themselves.

And don't we all agree that sexual activity with non-consenting or coerced females has no place in civilised society?





 
 
James

Box of assorted whacks and other treats

July 28 2002, 8:48 AM 

Miss Ross, was a teacher at junior school. It was she who would cure boys wandering around the classroom by a few mild slaps on the bottom. However she would often threaten to warm a particular boys bottom for him or promise that the next child that spoke wouldn't be able to sit down for a week. I can't remember her making the threat to a girl but it was nearly 40 years ago.
There was a Mrs Lovell who taught English in the first year at senior school, who would threaten both boys and girls with the cane. Once she even produced it from her desk and brandished it at some terrified girl. She kept a close eye on me because i had written that the collective noun of fish was a can and she suspected quite wrongly that i was too clever by half. She would often promise me a caning if i didn,t hand my homework in on time.
The promise of a sore bottom was sometimes more of a classroom entertainment than a real threat.

 
 
Big Jim

Re: Box of assorted whacks and other treats

July 28 2002, 7:02 PM 

Yes SaraJane I do agree with you in a way and I did feel it was getting to the stage where it would be wrong when I felt it would be wrong to spank her when she was about thirteen, although I did have to spank her once at fourteen for skipping school it was very much a one of and I felt it was necesery. My wife was slippered by her headmaster on two accasions at school, both times on the bottom at around fourteen or fifteen do you really think this was sexual abuse? because if it was there was a hell of a lot of it about, I personly don't think it was, it possably would only be abuse if the teacher had been enjoying it which of corse we can never know. Needless to say these were not 'fantasy spanking' slipperings, they were not given on the bare bottom which of corse would have be sexual abuse at any age.

You contradict yourself slightly SareJane when you say that slippering a girl is ok because unlike a spanking the girl is not over the mans lap, and the man is not having direct contact between his hand and the girls bottom bare or not, and then you say that using a slipper in no less direct contact than spanking with a bare hand because the slipper and the layers of clothes between bottom and slipper are akin to using a condom during sex?....


 
 
Sarajane

Re: Re: Box of assorted whacks and other treats

July 28 2002, 7:44 PM 

Jim,

1) To inflict CP on a non-consenting or coerced person for who you feel the remotest sexual attraction is sexual abuse.

2) Show me a male teacher who has inflicted CP on a girl pupil and who says he didnt enjoy it, and I'll show you either (a) the gayest gay in Gaytown or (b) a liar.

3) You say "You contradict yourself slightly SareJane when you say that slippering a (bent over) girl is ok ...". I didn't say slippering a (bent over) girl is ok. My point was that spanking her OTK is grossly abusive if the girl is sexually mature and is in any event significantly more intimate and hence potentially much more abusive than slippering her in the bent over position.

4) You say "you say that using a slipper is no less direct contact than spanking with a bare hand". I didn't say that, either. I likened it to child sex with and without a condom in that although the degree of contact may be different, the act remains abusive.


 
 
Big Jim

Re: Re: Re: Box of assorted whacks and other treats

July 28 2002, 8:07 PM 

Hi SaraJane, I must admit to being slightly upset about the idea that I sexualy abused my own daughter the three or four times I smacked her bottom, and also by the idea that you beleive that my wife was sexualy abused at school the two times she got the slipper. If this is the case then just about everyone was being abused in the past up untill a few years ago when c.p. was banned. Lets face it girls getting the slipper at school by male and female teachers was very normal, I also got the cane at school just about on a daily basis, and parents spanking their children was also the norm and I think still is although less than in the past, and I realy don't think there was a certain age when it was supposed to stop my own Father spanked me with the hand, and accasionly his belt untill I was at least sixteen, so a dad spanking a daughter of fifteen was not that unusuall I don't think.

 
 
Sarajane

Re: Re: Re: Re: Box of assorted whacks and other treats

July 28 2002, 8:31 PM 

Hello Jim,

There's a big difference between 'doing something which is sexually abusive' and 'sexually abusing someone' (the difference lying largely in the intent or the awareness) so I don't think you're in great danger of being accused of sexually abusing your daughter.

However, if your wife was slippered by a male teacher at school she was sexually abused: full stop, end of story.

Also, the fact that something was very normal does not mean that is was not also very wrong. I believe the slave trade goes some way towards proving my point.

And lastly, I remain convinced that a dad spanking a daughter of 15 across his knee was quite unusual at all times in English history.

 
 
James

Not unusual

July 28 2002, 10:08 PM 

Wether it is abusive is open to question but spanking your 15 year old daughter has obviously got a sexual aspect to it. It does depend what you mean by unusual of course but in the past i expect a reasonable number of young girls underwent this experience.
I know play spankings are common from "uncles" etc. Some girls may even encourage family members to spank them and of course their are those who need no encouragement.Sorry i can feel an anecdote coming on!
When i first left home to go to college i was in lodgings and the landladies daughter, a precocious 13 year old was one of the hazards one had to avoid,( the other was the landladies cooking).
She did get her spanking and i was fortunate enough to witness it. As was her mother and she didn't even blink.
One seemingly spotty , shy lad of about 19 arrived with his mother and the girl did her usual little lolita act and before you know it she's over his knee getting a well earned spanking on her navy blue knickers and two middle aged women in the room carrying on talking as if nothing is happening . Some people might think it unbelievable but i prefer to say it was surreal!

 
 
HMS Defiant

Re: Box of assorted whacks and other treats

July 28 2002, 10:53 PM 

James, I am sure you are right about threats of spanking being classroom entertainment.

More important, I am falling in love with your Miss Ross too.

 
 
 
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