When I attended a girls' secondary school in Ireland in the early 1970s corporal punishment was occasionally administered with a cane. I was caned about two or three times each year. The canes used in the school were long and swishy with curved handles at one end. Canings usually consisted of two strokes on each hand but occassionally three on each hand were given. Canings were usually adminstered in private in a room adjoining the head's office. However, one of the canings I received was in front of my whole form when I was in third form. Miss Boardman, our form mistress, found me and three other girls smoking in the toilets during morning break. After the break she went to each third form classroom to instruct all third form girls to go to the assembly hall. When we were all gathered in the hall, she appeared with a cane. She called me and the other girls caught smoking to the front of the hall and gave each of us six of the best. She gave me the cane on another occasion for ducking detention.

I would be interested to know if other girls experienced canings at school. Were girls in UK schools caned?

You say the canes had a curved handle at one end?

They weren't your typical Irish cane, then (i.e a curved handle at both ends)?

"...corporal punishment was occasionally administered with a cane. I was caned about two or three times each year."

This was what you consider occasional? At my (English) girls grammar school I think the cane may have been used two or three times during all my years there. What would an Irish school have been like where the cane was used often?

And please tell us more about some of your teachers!

Anyone wishing to learn about the joys of an Irish upbringing may like to see "The Magdelene Sisters" when it reaches their local cinema. Peter Mullan’s horrific story of four girls interned in the Magdalene Asylums in Ireland recently won the Golden Lion Award at the Venice Film Festival.

Teenaged girls imprisoned for life in the 20th Century for looking a bit flirty?

No, I'm not joking.

See the film for yourselves and be prepared to shed a lot of tears and forever after carry a sickbag in your pocket in case you accidently pass a Catholic church or catch a glimpse of the Pope on TV.

For over 150 years, the Magdalene Laundries existed to punish young women who had fallen foul of Ireland’s strict adherence to Catholic doctrine. Generations of women were hidden from society and deprived of their freedom because they had become pregnant out of wedlock, because a parish priest decreed they were ‘in moral danger’, or just because they were poor.

With nuns acting as jailers, the girls were cut off from their families and endured slave labour conditions, brutalized and bullied in an institution sanctioned by Church and Government.

Many spent their lives there, to be buried by the hundred in unmarked graves.

The last laundry closed as recently as 1996.

Let me repeat that - the last laundry closed as recently as 1996 and only since has the true horror of conditions in these institutions started to emerge.

Set in the 1960s The Magdalene Sisters dramatizes the lives of three women sent to a Magdalene Laundry as punishment for their ‘sins’. With exceptional performances throughout, it is an indictment of a system that put religious dogma before the rights of its children.

Mullan skilfully manages to avoid preaching or handwringing, and the real strength of the film is that he manages to deliver a powerful statement with such admirable restraint.

I can assure you that English girls were caned at school in the 1960's and 1970's. I went to a direct grant school and I got caned a total of 5 times in my seven years there. Only our Headmistress could cane us, and we were always caned on the bottom. I was caned for smoking, fighting, reducing a trainee teacher to tears, and for not having my school work up to date when I was "on Report".

The Headmistress had two canes, a smaller one about 30 inches long that she used on first years and a 36 inch long cane that she used on others. Both had crook handles and hurt like hell! Normal punishment was 4 or 6 strokes.

I was at a girls' grammar school in London back in the early 1960s and can confirm that the cane was in use. We had a Senior Mistress who administered any canings that were needed and I'm ashamed to say that my own bottom twice received what she always called "the benefit" of a caning.

I'd have to say that the cane was certainly not in use every day of the week or anything like that - indeed the vast majority of girls would have gone through school without ever seeing the cane, let alone feeling it.

Equally I'd have to admit that I deserved it both times - the first when I'd been caught carving the name of my then new boyfriend on my desk with the point of a compass, the second for smoking on the school field at lunchtime.

The cane was, as others have described, crook handled, and both times I got the standard six of the best. Thankfully all canings were administered in the privacy of the Senior Mistress' office, although - like any other girl - I was crying for a long while afterwards, much to the amusement of those girls who loved to tease on such occasions.

What more can I say? It damn well hurt!

Sue P,

Do you attend a school north of the Thames?

I know of no girls’ grammar school in South London where pupils were caned on the posterior.

Yes Billy Biro, it was indeed north of the Thames - and a long time ago!

Billy,

You are far too cynical. I believe every word that Sue P has written.

Sue,

Could you post some more details of corporal punishment at your school?

Nobody has mentioned Scotland yet, but I can assure you that in almost all Scottish schools until the mid 80s, the tawse was in regular use on girls as well as boys. The Scottish tawse is no toy either - it produces exceptionally painful bruising, but the culture was very much 'learn to be brave' and many girls I saw certainly were brave.

K.

It is good to have you with us, Kirsty!

Hugs and fuggs,

Gillian

Can someone confirm exactly how hard girls are caned and was this usually over pants or trousers? What sort of marks were left?

Having gone to an all boys school I'm interested to know how severely administered is a girls caning? Is done full force or a light swing, also was this over pants or trousers and what marks were left?

I would be glad to chat with a mother who got the tawse years ago and is now using such tool with her own daughters.
Of corse no fetish but only real life experiences.
Tony

I was very interested to read of your public caning of 6 strokes of the cane.Were these stroke delivered to the palms of your hands,or to your buttocks?

Regards,

Myles

Yes, I was also frequently punished at school in NZ, where my family lived in the 60's and early 70s.
It was at a girls' boarding, and the girls received a strap either on the hands or across the backs of the bare legs (calves). This really stung, especially when cold, and it left marks 'as an example to others'.
You could receive up to 6, though sometimes more for being caught with pornography, etc. At assembly, if you weren't paying attention properly, as distinct from actually talking, you'd get a flick on the bare legs with a light cane. Once my friend and I, for truancy, received 6 across the backs of the legs with a thin cane, and it really did hurt! For days afterwards, when getting up or sitting, the weight put on the legs caused excruciating pain.
It was no picnic getting strapped on the hands in class either. This was usually for talking, disobedience or lying. At the boys' boarding school, in another suburb, where my brother attended, they used the cane, often on the bare, though frequently on the hands or clothed bottom.
Any other girls ever get leathered or caned around the legs? What were your thoughts about it?

I can confirm that there was a South london girls grammar school which used the cane in the 50s.
I had a 15 year old girlfriend who bunked off school for the day so that we could go out together.I forged a sicknote from her mum but we had been seen and she was sent to the head. I can confirm quite categorically that she received six strokes of the cane across her knickers for her trouble at the end of afternoon school. I met her from school and she was in floods of tears and when we were back in her home I saw the marks which were very severe thick ridges and worse than I had seen on boys when I was at school. It took nearly three weeks for them to fade. This was my first experience of punishment being given to a female and in retrospect was probably the start of my interest in the subject.She told me that canings at the school were not frequent but always severe when given
So to any of you doubters, this WAS a true experience, the school is still in existance, albeit at a new location.I still bump into the girl occasionally, she is now married with grandchildren and has told me that the caning was a significant moment in her life and will never be forgotten.

Would you please tell us at which school your girlfriend was caned.

Our Research Team are guessing at Honor Oak, Peckham Rye.

I can confirm that it was not Honor Oak school...sorry

I am wary of giving an actual name after some of ther legal problems at Friends reunited but it was a girls grammar school in Catford which has now been demolished and moved to another location and the wore a navy blue and white uniform. Sure you will be able to guess from that if you know the area.

Thank you, swampy. You are almost as prim as dear old Fran of Wembley.

We know the area well. Captain John Harris, a flagellant much written about on this forum, often appeared as M.C. for the wrestling bouts at Catford Town Hall.

As you can see, we take great delight in naming names, but we promise not to disclose the name of the Girls’ Grammar School.

I was caned as a third former during my first year
as a 13-year-old at a New Zealand all-boys high school. The punishment was administered by a pys ed
master who seemed to delight in causing us
almost unbearable pain (usually six strokes at a
time). We were made to wear only the barest of
essentials -- thin cotton PT shorts without
underpants and sandshoes (plimsolls) without socks.
He knew how to cane, leaving raised painful wheals as his trademark. The cotton shorts offered no protection whatsoever.

I was caned at school only 20 years ago. I was caught cheating in a history exam and sent to the headmistress of my all-girls' boarding school in Wiltshire. She made me admit what I had done. I apologised but she said apologies were pointless.
I had to remove my school blazer and she removed her gown. She made me bend over her desk and then lifted up my skirt and folded it back. She took my knickers by their elastic and pulled them up tight. She tapped my bottom with the cane several times as she lectured me on the wickedness of what I had done. She announced I would receive six strokes and I had to count and thank her after each stroke.
I cannot describe the pain I suffered. In all the years since then I have never felt such pain. The marks stayed with me for over two weeks.
At least I never cheated again - not until I got married, of course !

I read with interest your message asking whether a girl was caned at Honor Oak School. Although the answer was no, I can promise you that at least one girl who attended this school was given a sound spanking on her bare bottom. I was the one who administered it!
I should add that this did not take place at school but in my bedroom and with her full consent so it hardly counts as corporal punishment. Nevertheless I thought that this might be of interest.
I am a newcomer to this group but I have already picked up that there seems to be a reluctance to believe any accounts of girls being caned on the bottom. My schooldays were spent at a S.E. London school in the early sixties and although girls were rarely caned, I did witness this on one occasion. A full account will follow which I assure you will be a true report of what happened

I should have mentioned that my previous message should have been addressed to Karen.

We look forward to reading your future messages, Richard.

We accept that girls were caned on the bottom at school, but tend not to believe accounts of girls being caned on the bare bottom.

There was a girl named Antoinette, known as Toni, who was a pupil at Honor Oak. She was into mild flagellation. Was it her that you spanked in your bedroom?

No it wasn't Antoinette although she would have been welcome anytime.
You must have known her well or did she make no secret of her particular interest?

I knew Toni very well indeed when we were children. She liked to play spanking games.

As an irregular poster I am intregued by some of the doubts cast regarding experiences of girls receiving corporal punishment.I think that many posters are judging events by present day standards whereas those of us who were at school in the 40's and 50's know how different things were then. My lifelong passion for CP and all of it's conutations was moulded by my experiences at that time.
South London primary school in late 40's, most teachers had a hard slap. Regularly, the order was given to "fetch the cane and book" from the headmistress and on return it was one across each palm for boys or girls.Fifty odd years on I can still hear the swish and the crack now.More serious offences meant being punished by the head, a fearsome spinsterly lady, and it was always three on each hand.On a couple of occasions heads canings were administered in front of the school and I recall one where two girls and three boys had bullied a boy who had a leg caliper and they all got three on each hand.
Moving up at eleven I gained scholarship to a very good grammar school where the cane ruled absolute. Every master had either a cane or slipper which were in regular daily use in the classroom. Being sent to the head for any reason produced only one punishment, a very hard caning. Blazer off, shirt and vest pulled out of trousers and bent over, touching toes. Minimum was four, normally six, often eight and I did hear of the odd twelve. I suffered many times and the excrutiating pain still lives with me as does the sight in the mirror and on other boys of thick purple weals which stayed around for several weeks.I have never had the slightest desire to repeat or to switch !
As for girls, YES they were caned ( see my earlier post) at many schools and would often talk about it at youth club etc.Often today, at a dinner party or such, the topic of modern lack of discpline often arises and someone from our age group will always bring up the old school days and quite often one of the women will talk about a caning they had at school in the 50's.
Going back futher, my mother once told me that she was regularly caned at school back in the 20's as she often had to miss school to help at home.
Sorry for the long post but I have to say to some of the younger ones, living in this discipline free, human rights dominated society that all of these things did happen 40 or 50 years ago. I could give many more examples but fell that I have said enough for now.

Of corse [sic] Tony, no fetish. Get a f****** life mate!

yea ithink so

was it on the bare bottom? do you think the headmistress enjoied it?

I was caned 3 times during my school years during the 1960s. The cane was administered by the headmistress in the privacey of her office.
She had two canes in a tall cabinet on the right of her desk, both had the crook handles.
I received 3,4 and 6 strokes respectively the times I visited her. We were caned across our bottle green school knickers and she could really send you back to class with a well striped bottom and in tears.
Caning was not a regular occurrence compared to my brother's school were it was almost a daily event.

I attended a lancs grammar school. The cane was given to boys on their clothed bottoms for serious offences or repetition of offences. Girls could be caned on the hand but rarely were. There was a general assumption that boys needed the cane periodically but girls did not.

Hello to everyone; I've just joined this interesting forum and would like to add my experience to this thread. I attended Worcester King's School in the early '60's and a few of us were friendly with some girls from the Alice Ottley School in Worcester. In the summer we used to meet up most evenings after school on the riverbank just as a group of friends. We were around 14 years old at the time. One evening one of the girls started to tell us that she had been caned that morning and after a bit of persuasion she lifted her skirt and pulled her knickers aside to show us the marks. I had been caned myself not that long previous and could tell from the red stripes that it had been done quite strictly. She had been caught smoking and had been warned before. The caning had taken place in a private study and she had to bend over the end of a desk. I can't remember if the headmistress did it, but the schoolmistress who did lifted her skirt out of the way and then gave her six strokes on top of her knickers. She said that it really did sting and she cried. When she showed us, the stinging had subsided and she was quite proud of the marks. I certainly enjoyed looking at them.

An amusing little story, Tony.

Pity there's not a word of truth in it.

How can you say that when you were not there? I was trying to make a serious contribution to the thread by giving an account of a real event. I agree I only have the word of the girl that it was done in school, but I believed her at the time. Perhaps she was lying and her father had done it, but there is no doubt that she had been caned. Personally, I only call someone a liar if I have a reason to do so.
The Alice Ottley school and the King's School are still there and in the 1960's there was strict discipline imposed in both schools.

there are a lot of fantastic stories and this may be one but see no reason why yours should be dismissed offhand-quite usual on this forum (to be dismissive), I believe..did you find the experience very erotic?

Thanks for your interest. I didn't think it was much of a story. I only posted it to confirm that girls did get the cane. It was a long time ago and I was only 14 but I did enjoy looking at her bare legs and cheeks as she pulled her knickers to one side. I was a bit late in getting interested in girls and didn't have a proper date until I was 17 years old; I was looking forward to getting a motorbike and when I was 16 did become part of the 1960's 'rocker' scene. I suppose the girl concerned was a bit of a tease and enjoyed the exhibitionist part of showing us. We used to meet in the evenings as a group of friends at that age so there was nothing sexual ever happening. There is a website for both the Alice Ottley and the King's school. I am a member of the 'old boys' club, and am an 'Old Vigornian' named after the Latin name for Worcester.

I think people do believe that girls have been caned in the not too recent past and indeed there is no reason offhand to doubt your story. There have been legitimate concerns about the extent and magnitude-many of the stories do not appear credible-howver seeing that only people who are interseted in CP contribute, we are certain to get an above the average number of female CP incidents posted anyway. It is not incredible that after having been caned a girl may enjoy a certain amount of exhibitionism either

I'm not certain whether this forum is interested in fact or fantasy? I think that if anyone has doubts about a post being genuine then they should take the time to find some facts to show this to be so. The story that I posted was genuine and I did name the school that the girl went to, unlike some other posts.
I do have another story which confirms to me that the cane really was used at the Alice Ottley School for girls.

Please post your story that confirms to you that the cane really was used at the Alice Ottley School for girls.

Nobody's saying the cane wasn't used at that school.

It may or may not have been, but that's not the point.

The point is that Tony's story is a load of bollards.

It never happened.

I think Lotta Nonsense is making genuine people like myself think "Why should I bother?" The site will miss out on hearing interesting factual stories which surely was the original point of the site? If Lotta Nonsense has evidence that a story is a fiction then he or she should explain why. For example, Lotta Nonsense originally said that there was no truth in any of my story. I can at least prove that I lived in Worcester and went to the King's School. I know the girl was caned because I saw the marks. I said previously that I believed her, but she could have been caned by her father. However,the way the other girls talked at the time it appeared common knowledge that she had been caned at school.I cannot actually prove that the girl in question was caned as I lost touch with all my old school friends when I left the area. I will repeat what I said before; I don't call someone a liar unless I have proof.

I do not particularly care whether the stories on the site are fact or fiction. They are all well written and interesting.

I wish Lotta Nonsense would find himself a new name and occupation instead of trying to discredit stories posted onto this site. Is lotta Nonsense a cynical oldie who regrets not having gone to the right school to witness CP on a daily basis or are they so young that they cannot remember a time before mobile phones and childrens rights. There were no childrens rights in the fifties and sixties, most kids just kept quiet about what went on at school for fear of receiving some further punishment at home.

I can go even one better. I once received 6 cuts on the palms from the headmaster for smoking. He was reknowned for his ability to use the cane. I then had to go immediately to PE, but had forgotten my house singlet, so the PE master gave me a further 6 cuts, very similar to the headmaster in severity, but this time on the soles of my bare feet. I then had to do 4 laps of the adjoining oval - in my bare feet - to reinforce the punishment. I then went home, but got another 4 cuts from the headmaster next day for truanting.

Girls at my comprehensive in wiltshire were caned on rare occasions as were the boys. Must confess to experiencing a call to the Headmasters office during a history lesson some 22 years ago at the age of 15.

I was mystified as to why I was called as the incident had happened some weeks before. All became clear when I was informed that I was seen out in the local village during school time which I couldn't deny. Things became a whole lot worse when I smirked when asked for an explanation. What happened after was like a bad dream....This was in the mid eighties when caning was almost at an end and I never for one moment thought that it could happen to me.

My Headmaster calmly went to a cupboard and produced the cane. i couldn't believe my eyes but assumed he was just showing it to me as a warning. He then deliberately left it on the desk and told me to wait there. He left the office and I just stared at this bamboo stick which was long with a curved handle and fairly thick. i just stood there frozen. He came back after a minute or two and I realized it was serious when he brought in my form mistress who smiled sympathetically.

I was then informed that I should be ashamed of myself as I was to become the first girl to be caned in over a year. Believe me I was trembling in fear at this point. He picked up the cane and told me to stand in front of the desk with my hands on it..At first I thought he was going to cane my hands on the desk but then he stood behind me and before I knew it there was a whack on my bottom. There was no pain for a second or two then I had to let out a loud ouch..I had to stand up straight after the 2nd and after being told to resume the position the 3rd really had me smarting so much that I cried.

My tutor then said 'we're sorry it had to come to this Belinda' and the head put the cane away (never to be seen by me again). I was told to go back to class but it had finished by the time I got there. I wandered round in a daze that lunchtime. It still hurt even though I didn't get hit particularly hard.

The worst thing was that in assembly the next day it was announced that 'a pupil' had been caned yesterday and the reason why. Our head of year then said had she not found it so amusing a detention would have sufficed...Of course the word 'she' gave it away and knowing i'd been sent out of class the previous day most people in my class put 2 and 2 together though I denied it.

Altogether an absolute humiliation but i would still advocate bringing back the cane today. I certainly never smirked or answered a teacher back again.

Thank you for reading,
Belinda

Thank you for sending in such a nicely expressed account, Belinda. It is possible that you have the honour of being the last girl to be caned in a Wiltshire school.

Hi Belinda. Interesting story. Would love to chat further. My hotmail address is kagoul.

I know a woman who was expelled from a convent school in the early 90s. She's hinted darkly that she was caned often but given no details. Can anyone confirm that caning went on in RC schools as late as this?

If such punishments took place, the school would have had to be outside the state sector and caning would almost certainly be done on the hand.

It was a Catholic private school in the northwest. I couldn't believe it when I heard it. She said she hated it at the time but she came to appreciate when she got into S and M. At my state school the cane was just a myth.

Yes Belinda there were girls schools in wiltshire where the cane was used right up until it was abolished!

Really Pete? Which schools were these? I was not at a girls school but a mixed comprehensive. I won't say which one as I don't wish to be pinpointed.

The worst stories I heard about physical punishments were from people who attended catholic schools,run by both nuns and priests.
But it was usually not the cane used but a leather strap across the buttocks for boys and on the hands for girls.
And in catholic orphanages it was even worse,along with other physical abuses.
I know this because I've talked with many of these victims who were at these schools and orphanages.

The only type of punishment that was commonly used in girls schools after say the mid 1970s were thigh slapping and slippering across the knickers. These could only be administered by female teachers.

All these stories of severe canings are on the whole sheer nonsense. Although it is possible that some occurred but it would have been very unlikely.

Why unlikely Kelly, look at Corpun.

I still stand by my claim that 99% of cp in girls schools in the UK would had involved a trip to the front desk for either slapped legs or a smacked bottom.

This would involve an open hand only and would obviously be administered only by a female teacher.

I estimate that less than 1% of girls attending a girls school in the UK during the time when cp was legal would have been caned.

I attended at least 3 different girl schools during the late 1970s and early 1980s and never witnessed or heard of any girl ever being caned. However I am not saying it never happened. I am just saying it was highly unlikely.

Kelly, may we be party to the intricate calculations which presumably underpin the very precise percentages you quote above?

Well I think it is very obvious that the only purpose of cp in a classroom situation is to maintain order. Most misbehaviour in the class would have been talking, etc. It is also obvious that no teacher in their right mind is going to cane a girl for simply talking in class.

Therefore ipso facto most cp would be proportionate to the alleged misdemeanor. In my experience at school (all girls) if you were talking in class, the teacher just asked you to pease be quiet, and in the majority of cases most girls complied.

If any girl was foolish enough to ignore the warning, then she most probably would be sorted out at the fron desk (female teachers only). This was usually very effective. Problem solved. While I admit that girls were sometimes sent to the senior mistress for harsher punishments such as slippering, this was relatively rare. I cannot think of any realistic situation that would require a girl to be caned.

Reasons that I personally know of girls being caned:-
Talking in class, lateness, rudeness, fighting, smoking, having possesion of ciggies.
In fact anything you name could result in what would now be called serious CP.
My teacher friend ( who never used CP) tells me that ( with experience) from the front of the class, even with back turned, one is well aware of what is going on. More so than the pupils themselves.
Teachers would make examples of misscreants to ensure discipline in the classroom was maintained before it got out of control.
They were in a position of control.It was their responsibility to ensure the smooth running of the class and they would do so with any means required.
Wether we like it or not classrooms today are a disgrace with an undisciplined rabble. In the past you could hear a pin drop.

This is a very interesting topic with some very intersting posts. It's a shame that most of them were posted in 2003. I would have asked Swampy,if she's still around,if the boys in her class or school were caned on bare buttocks in front of girls,since she said that she saw the marks left by the cane on the boys' buttocks.

I think your china plate swampy has been posting to the wrong forum. He should use the linkk below:

www.porkpies.org

Yes,but we must give her the benefit of the doubt,since she was talking about an upbringing in New Zealand. And we know that different countries have different customs,even in schools.
So could someone who is familiar with New Zealand customs or education please illuminate us on this?

Just checking any response to my message from last year...

Have been thinking about my visit to the headmaster alot recently.It holds a morbid fascination for me...The most terrifying moment of all was when the dreaded cane was taken from the top shelf of his cupboard...Just remember seeing a terrifying flash of yellow bamboo as it came out.When I was left to stare at it on the desk my mouth was dry and I remember when the absolutely terrifying moment came when I was told that that horrible cane was going to be applied to me..I remember feeling dizzy and weak.. And the complete shock when I actually got the cane on my bottom..Had always assumed it would be on the hand.

Despite my fascination I have no desire for a repeat caning though did submit to a couple of spankings by my ex boyfriend...A fascinating subject indeed.

My wife would really relate to the fear thing you refer to Belinda.

Im getting on a bit now so if I need a bit of a stimulus in the bedroom I get Alison to recount her school caning back in the late 60s. It always has the desired effect on me. One of the things that sticks out most in Alis mind, all these years later, is the fear she felt. Fear whilst she waited outside the headmistresses office door and the knee knocking, leg trembling,sweating for England fear she felt when the cane was produced from the heads cupboard. She was simply unable to take her eyes off it.

Like you, Alison certainly had no desire for a repeat visit.

So far as I know my school never used the cane on girls though boys did get it on the hands. I saw the marks a few times on boys'hands and it was obvious that it had to really hurt.

Girls could get the slipper from senior women teachers and other teachers would send you to report to them after school when one would be on duty.

This happened to me twice, once when I was in the second year for fighting with another girl - who was also sent with me for the slipper - and once in the fourth year when three girls and two boys were caught smoking behind a shed on the playing fields. The boys got the cane from the headmaster after assembly next morning but me and the two other girls were sent for the slipper after school the same day.

Both times I had to bend over a low stool and was smacked with the slipper over my school skirt. The first time we both got 2 whacks each and the second time it was 4 whacks.

It was a different teacher both times for me and the second time was a lot harder and I thik all of us cried

Yes the slipper was used quite often by the senior mistress. Serious misconduct would often result in bending over for 6 of the best with skirt raised.

Well Alan, poor Alison..I can certainly relate to that fear..Words cannot describe how I felt when I realised I was going to get The Cane. Can certainly relate to the 'weak knees'. Also recall feeling very hot, pretty sure my face was bright red to be honest, it certainly was in assembly the next day when it felt like everybody was looking at me, even though i wasn't officially recognised...Also vividly recall shifting in my seat when the announcement was made and could still feel the lines that the cane had inflicted across my bottom throbbing...Ouch!!

At my school, in the 60s and early 70s, for boys and girls alike it was generally the slipper in class and the cane from the headmistress.

By now you may know I attended 12 years of coed Sisters of Mercy schools. A yardstick while being asked to bend over a student desk while facing (grimacing) happened infrequently but enough to deter. No girl was on the receiving end. The principals office afforded no privacy and I'm sure they may have employed it if it were an all girl school but probably figured that parents wouldn't tolerate it. Now thanfully Southern handbooks forbid it. With the risk of offending I would not like to see a girl be put through that. I wouldn't think of it as fair play. Paddling with built in safeguards is another story. Call me a male chauvinist pig but public humiliation is wrong for both genders but I think a girl being put through that would be more traumatic in most cases. We wouldn't want that to happen to either one of ours but more so our daughter.

I can never understand how one can experience that and shake it off as if it were a non event while others never get over it. There seems to be no happy medium in that respect. Maybe they weren't as easiliy embarrassed or just wanted to get it over with? Or maybe it was a guilt (there was enough of that going around) relieving catharsis? It befuddles me to this day.

This clip must have been referenced before in this estimable Forum but it does pertain to this thread. The Brides of Christ was an Australian television mini series shot in 1991 and who would have known that two actors (Naomi Watts and Russell Crowe) would become movie megastars?

How much of that scene was real and how much of that was special effects? Maybe a take or two of a stroke would help them enter into the scene but I'm sure that will be down someone's alley. IMHO there was less a fetish effect than today where producers and directors clumsily work scene into the plot. You Tube gives a lot of the movie away so you can watch Russell Crowe hone his acting skills in other clips from the mini series.

BTW. After every Sister of No Mercy (they were use to be calling that for generations) name were the letters RSM for Reverend Sisters of Mercy. I was in that dreaded eight grade when I coined it Really Small Minds.

Girls Corporal Punishment

Hi American Way

You say:

Call me a male chauvinist pig but public humiliation is wrong for both genders but I think a girl being put through that would be more traumatic in most cases. We wouldn't want that to happen to either one of ours but more so our daughter.

You are a brave man, American Way! It will not surprise me in the slightest if you are severely mauled by our new and esteemed fellow contributor Jenny!

As regards the video you have linked to, doubtless you are aware who posted it on YouTube? Like yourself she enjoys the status of Honorary Life Member of this estimable Forum.

Hi American Way

You said: With the risk of offending I would not like to see a girl be put through that. I wouldn't think of it as fair play.

You took no risk of offending - it was an absolute certainty. If it's OK for a boy, why not a girl? Please explain how unfairness can be "fair play".

Paddling with built in safeguards is another story. Call me a male chauvinist pig but public humiliation is wrong for both genders but I think a girl being put through that would be more traumatic in most cases. We wouldn't want that to happen to either one of ours but more so our daughter.

If something is wrong, it's wrong. I agree it shouldn't happen to boys or girls but, if a boy is expected to suffer public humiliation as (part of) a punishment, there's no reason a girl shouldn't.

Most of the time, special considerations ostensibly intended to benefit us, have exactly the opposite effect. The rest of the time, they just demean us.

Jenny: It is standard corporal punishment policy (linked below) that age, gender and physical condition are to be considered in TN and the American Way. Few girls are crying foul (O'm being demeaned) while being paddled. Boys should be hit as hard as any boy and girls should be hit as hard as any girl. That's not demeaning that is commons sense as is age and physical condition mentioned. Who does the paddling of course makes a difference because all don't paddle equally but always within boundaries.

What gender does the paddling is more a big deal with Paula Flowe than the students on the receiving end as prof n already has astutely noted. Maybe due to my own lack of testicular fortitude my only concern would be who hit the hardest. Girls are more conscious of their bodies and boys are more conscious of girls bodies and some things are best done in private for both genders.

Jenny I'm not trying to agitate or be a bee in your bonnet but I must respond out of fear that my silence may be taken to be consent.

It is standard corporal punishment policy that age, gender and physical condition do matter in TN (subject of a gender discrimination suit previously linked) and in the American Way.

American Way CP Policy

Tennessee CP Policy

Hi American Way,

In our own forum there seems to be some consensus Jenny, Doctor Dominum and his boys, myself and my ex school mates that actually women punish just as hard if not harder than men,


a good question for gender sex and size....girls could get it harder than men! Comments????

Hi American Way

You said:
It is standard corporal punishment policy (linked below) that age, gender and physical condition are to be considered in TN and the American Way.

Physical condition is clearly a valid consideration. Age too, albeit to a lesser extent. I can even accept that gender could, at a stretch, be a valid consideration but I completely fail to see the relevance of a person's sex to whether corporal punishment is reasonable. Can you explain it?

Few girls are crying foul (O'm being demeaned) while being paddled.

That seems to agree with my argument. It's demeaning to tell a girl that she won't be paddled because, as a girl, she's considered to frail.

Boys should be hit as hard as any boy and girls should be hit as hard as any girl. That's not demeaning that is commons sense

It what way is it common sense to hit a young, frail, boy harder than an older, tough, girl? Or do you mean that, all else being equal, the boy should be hit harder just for being male?

as is age and physical condition mentioned.

So which takes priority? Sex, age, or physical condition?

... and some things are best done in private for both genders.

I wouldn't argue with that.

Jenny I'm not trying to agitate or be a bee in your bonnet but I must respond out of fear that my silence may be taken to be consent.

I welcome reasoned argument - please continue. Every time I have to counter an argument, I have to re-examine my own position and question its validity.

prof n I'm honored that you asked. Are you trying to get me in trouble with Jenny? I can't be much a help for I have only the Sisters who were so gentle and merciful of heart and no man to judge it by. Maybe because of the sugar and spice factor (astutely mentioned on this estimable Forum perhaps by you prof n) the man doesn't hit her as hard as she deserves. IMHO both unfair and unprofessional. Better for him to leave that to a woman if he detects that motive. Call me equal rights in that regard.

OTOH women (especially coaches) may swing harder for being made to feel second class and not being able play in boy's games due to deficiencies surrounding size and fitness that more often than not is helped by their gender. This year Arkansas girls (Teachers Chatboard) join in the consensus that woman coaches and vice principals paddle harder than men IMHO both unfair and unprofessional. Better for her to leave that to a man if she detects that motive. Call me equal rights in that regard.

Size, age and gender matter in sports but good Lord any able body adult irrespective of size, age (Dr Dominum included or gender should be able to paddle wisely by calibrating according to age, gender or physical condition as common sense dictates.

Hi american Way7,

Pretty much what I thought you might reply

You know my position on coaches!!!!

Seriously though, I think this is why it is so important to have proper regulations for administration, even if not as detailed as those I posted elsewhere (CP 1) from her in the 70's. After all as I said before my friend paddled through her whole career with never a complaint, but she was taught to use a set procedure, with set TWP style limits to each stroke ( even if you got a lot of them and a paddle with those pesky holes!!!!).

When in England , using the cane she followed all the other staff and IMHO hit a lot harder with that than the paddle...hence her equation of 2 paddle stokes = one of the best with the cane.

Sex should play absolutely no role in determining who receives CP. We are in agreement on valid considerations on the administration of the punishment of course all things being equal. Fairness in policy (matrices) are written in the handbooks and many are astounded that so many girls are paddled in the states. Others were astounded that they would choose paddling over another punishment. They have unfounded preconceptions based on outdate stereotypes. I am proud to say my grown daughter has disabused me of almost all those notions. But I'm still not jiggy about coed wrestling.

On the surface there does seem to be an unfair burden on the girls when you read a paragraph on the boys' dress code and a page for the girls' but I'm sure the parents are battling that issue with their daughters while other issues with their. We had uniforms in the Catholic school so that wasn't as much a problem. Reasoned discourse must be based on mutual respect and none is lacking for you Jenny from my side of the pond.

Hi American Way

You said:
Fairness in policy (matrices) are written in the handbooks and many are astounded that so many girls are paddled in the states.

That's simply explained. Despite the propaganda, girls are just a badly behaved as boys so, once you remove the anti-male bias, just as many girls will be punished.

Others were astounded that they would choose paddling over another punishment.

I think I've explained that: so-called lesser punishments are often a lot worse. I sometimes wonder if that's the intention - to treat girls badly while appearing to do the opposite.

But I'm still not jiggy about coed wrestling.

That's fair enough - you don't have to take part. There are many things I don't like but that doesn't give me the right to stop others doing them.


On the surface there does seem to be an unfair burden on the girls when you read a paragraph on the boys' dress code and a page for the girls'...

I can't comment on the US but in the UK it's usually the other way around. Dress codes for boys and men are a lot stricter than those for girls and women.

Reasoned discourse must be based on mutual respect and none is lacking for you Jenny from my side of the pond.

Thank you, I hope I reciprocate well.

girls are just a badly behaved as boys so, once you remove the anti-male bias, just as many girls will be punished.

Not much to disagree with your recent posting but I'm not sure if by removing an anti-male basis you mean changing the enforcement and/or the rules. The disparity IMHO cannot be accounted even in TN padllings with at 11,000 boys paddled and only 4,000 girls. On the giving the CP/Suspension choice I assume you are kidding with your wink emoticon or at least I hope so. I gree what the wrestlers do in other schools is their business but as a parent or as a Principal I would make it my business.

That's not a lot with so many counties banning it and often in heavily populated cities where more often than not you have the most transplants from areas of the country where paddlings are banned. IMHO the local districts make the call and keep in mind often times are elected by their own regional population.

Contrast that with back door and closed room politicians in the State Capitol (with the politicians far from the classroom in the districts where it seems to be working) and far too willing to give the national anti-CP zealots a willing ear and the Governor of Ohio will listen to his constituents from highly populated urban areas and other states who have banned CP much to the consternation of TWP who have the courage to submit to the slings and arrows of the likes of them.

They have given their own award to Ohio Governor Ted Strickland as a profile in cowardice in that regard. Prior to that another heavily populated state Pennsylvania took that approach to impose their agenda on the Amish and the Mennonites and upon my beloved(Turkeyfoot) a communities sensible policy that will be heavily incorporated in the student handbook that has been such a slow work in progress. I will not place Renee et al into my pantheon of those who have the courage to submit because they don't need me singing their praises with 100 posting in our estimable Forum. Their inclusion would imply they need my help and I am far to wise to assume that.

Hi American Way




I think I've explained that: so-called lesser punishments are often a lot worse. I sometimes wonder if that's the intention - to treat girls badly while appearing to do the opposite. wink.gif

You said:
Not much to disagree with your recent posting but I'm not sure if by removing an anti-male basis you mean changing the enforcement and/or the rules.

Definitely enforcement and possibly the rules. Rules which apply to only one sex need to either be abolished or amended to apply to both sexes. Rules such as "boys must open doors for girls." The rest of the rules should be enforced on both sexes equally. It's very common for, especially low level, misbehaviour by girls to be overlooked but severely jumped on when a boy does exactly the same thing. The boys are often punished not only for their own misbehaviour but for that of their female classmates too.

The disparity IMHO cannot be accounted even in TN padllings with at 11,000 boys paddled and only 4,000 girls.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Doesn't that go some way to proving my point? Do you really think boys are 2.75 times as badly behaved as girls?


On the giving the CP/Suspension choice I assume you are kidding with your wink emoticon or at least I hope so.

The emoticon was to indicate that my suggestion that "I sometimes wonder if that's the intention - to treat girls badly while appearing to do the opposite." was not entirely serious and was most definitely not an accusation directed at you. I think it does happen on occasion but only very rarely. Giving a choice of CP rather than suspension to a boy, but not offering a girl that option, suggests that a girl's education is considered less important.

American Way/ Jenny

One major factor in the unequal paddling of girls and boys in the South don't forget is that many more girls never get the choice, because a much higher proportion of girls' parents 'opt out' with no paddle forms. This is most marked at Senior High School where I understand from my recent visit it may be 2 or 3 girls to 1 boy!

The only way round this it seems to me is to put more power in the hands of the students. Some Principals will allow 'no paddle ' kids to make a choice and then contact the parents to see if they are prepared to change their minds. I know my friend did this many times, and said often it works on the basis that the parents say to the child ' We've tried to protect you, but if you want to ...well you are doing it with your eyes open...don't say we didn't warn you ....etc'!


Anyway 16/17 year olds should be old enough to decide!

Hi prof.n

You've explained the discrepancy, thank you.

...the parents say to the child ' We've tried to protect you, but if you want to ...

Rephrased: "We've tried to put your butt before your education but, if you think your education is more important..."

Spot on prof n and I will incorporate that codicil (not quite the right word) in the handbook. Unless you packed on more pounds than I've judging from that picture you have proven more valuable than your weight in goal. Seriously the 2 to 3 to 1 opting out may not be all that much of a factor because from what I gather from the Teachers Chat board few parents do. Since students are suspended for other reasons than refusing CP the only indication of 25% fewer girls (surprising to some but I'm sure not to your friend) submitting to the paddle is from that forum.

prof n and others who may share an interests do you give much credence to the Chat board postings? I didnt as I said before until Alvin TX numbers seemed cuckoo turn out to be reasonable. First hand accounts on the giving end seem more credible than on the receiving account.

Has anyone entered the OCR data and viewed the statistics that Colin Farrell has culled his statistics from? Just search (Center for Effective Discipline) and hit discipline at school and voila. I am unless mistaken disappointed in Corpun for not publishing and if you recall on this estimable Forum I asked where they got their material. Maybe they should for it is better to teach a child how to fish and once you learn how to navigate the site its not very hard to do.

I said before I would opt my daughter out but not my son but with that codicil I would be free to opt in if she found the alternative too burdensome and some of those circumstances could be discussed in advance as hypotheticals. From the Chat board students often choose a paddling that they complain about but who put themselves in that position to begin with?

BTW. I ridiculed the detailed student appeal form (from another thread) with only in America comment but upon further reflection it does afford a 16 or 17 year old with dignity despite their lapse on judgment or surrender to their code defying proclivities. That form will also work it's way into the handbook unless others can convince me to the contrary. Again to PDF that file within the handbook with a click within the handbook is beyond my technical expertise. We'll see when we get there.

Hi American Way. Poor Another_Lurker is feeling very left out of things in this estimable Forum, what with all the heavyweights with personal experience on the receiving end of CP pitching in and Jenny also doing the System Programmer bit by spotting other people's deliberate mistakes (tut tut prof.n ) It was therefore with some relief that I noticed in your post above:

That form will also work it's way into the handbook unless others can convince me to the contrary. Again to PDF that file within the handbook with a click within the handbook is beyond my technical expertise. We'll see when we get there.

Ask and help may be at hand. BTW how is the emoticons in email project going?

Hi American Way,

I think there is a difference between States.and rural/urban . central urban schools tend to not to paddle or paddle less IMHO often because of strings to federal funds for improvement etc.

Rural religious states and sreas more paddling. the interest in gone is the middle class suburbs. Often ISD's in their own right , paddling supported by parents, but with a substantial minority opposed. Here the issue of age looms large, perhaps why TWP are rather reticent on this one A lot of parents sign out their girls over 14 , yet it is 14 upwards when a large part of paddling occurs.Hence the statistics Although an unfashionable view, the administrators suggest it is in the late teen years that paddling can make a real difference to behaviour patterns as all behaviour then is truly 'voluntary'.

My friend always indicates that it is around 15/16 for boys and a little later for girls that the greatest behaviour challenges occur. If I demur, or quote TWP, she says IMHO look at your own record with me, and then tell me I'm wrong!!!! . That's too near the knuckle for comfort!


Chat board. Weird in my opinion .I agree the receivers are not credible, and the givers more so, but still it sits uncomfortably, reads more like a suspect web site..not for teachers......can't put my finger on it .....but then Mississippi and Alabama ........Have you seen the Family guy where the Griffins are forcibly relocated to the rural South in a witness protection programme? Just a thought.......

prof n we agree that there are postings that are unsettling. This is a pattern I have found. It is most evident where the same names crop up on the subject or they use goofy pseudonyms or when threads that grow long quickly (closer in dates) or where the names are sillier and they only post when it involves this subject. As soon as a bogus posting (Lauren in link below) enters the thread the legitimate posters stop and the thread end abruptly or someone intervenes to put an end to the nonsense.

Another dead give away is high school students rarely post except on this topic so that indicates their entries to be most likely bogus. For then to be appealing for sympathy could be a Paula plant or someone with less than savory motives. Young teachers would be relating middle school paddlings (even in the late nineties when paddlings were becoming less frequent) and not just relating high school junior and seniors when hopefully not in much on the verge of going to college.

That being said there are postings that seem like they're the real McCoys and shed light on what is going on today in the south. IMHO the one who started the post Amy Meyers is the real McCoy. Hers is like thousand posts on the chatboard that dont relate to CP. Your teacher friend from the south has been of great help as are the real or less susceptible postings in this chatboard. When you see an email address or someone not going from state to state posting about CP you get real stories.

I know how valuable the UK Friends United postings reminiscing with schools you are familiar with are the closer to the corps of this estimable Forum what goes on today with CP in the states may or may not be of interests to readers here. Like Dr Dominum it relates but unlike Dr Dominum doesn't afford an opportunity to enter into a dialogue so lacking that TWP and the Teacher Chatboard is as close as one can get to what is going on in real time.

A short thread without undue elaboration gives me a clearer idea of what is going on more than the student handbooks with their code of conduct and disciplinary sanctions because the schools that paddle the most either don't publish one available online. This previously linked source I have found more helpful than seem likely to be bogus. Again bracket Laurens post (the thought of a tennis racket was amusing) and when you sift IMHO it is worth the task.

It is not just corporal punishment that causes paperwork as the second link indicates. Dr Dominum how would you like to deal with something like this? It makes the running lists look like childs play?


Teacher Chatboard


Didcipline Incident Training Material

Hi American Way,

I take your point . the Lauren post screams plant, and anyone using the site and understanding the subject would know the information is just not credible because it isn't, or couldn't be seen as physiologically accurate (if it had been on the first time doubtless NBC and lawyers would have been beating a path to her family's front door!

On the issue of the post - paddling in grades 9-12, this does seem to be an issue. The sentiments my friend expressed are pretty typical of those around in the paddling areas, and that's why I was interested in the statement that ( and I'm sorry my typing was even worse than usual on this bit) opting out in the middle class suburbs was largely girls in 9-12. Strange given the teachers insistence that this is where/when paddling works, especially as it doesn't interfere with grades , which are vital at that point.As you have pointed out in the past - teachers are parents too!

Teachers are parents is true and I mentioned before I would opt my daughter out and not my son. Except when they were young as a parent I was more involved with disciplinary issues with both but with my son through his teen years as my wife was our daughter the spankings ended. The same couldn't be said of socio economic groups where corporal punishment was practice more often and often among African Americans. If a parent hasn't spanked at home it's understandable why the urban middle class (the districts that are banning it more and more).

There is another factor involved here and it is hard to confirm or reach the reasoable surmise stage which is that the parents are in denial and consider their daughters more angelic than their sons and would never need CP. I wouldn't be that naive but the sugar and spice thinking may indeed enter into the teachers mind and may minimally explain such a drastic difference in CP gender ratio.

Jenny I can hear the ice cracking. In hemline battles mothers are more likely to enter as do student code of conduct. Male teachers shouldn't be expected to paddle a girl for wearing a miniskirt. I here the ice craching in the UK a custom imported by Twiggy at the same time as long hair by the Beatles. My wife won the hemline battle (brooks less defiance as I am more aware than anyone). And my father won the hair length battle and I wish I had that now

If more parents are opting out because of gender considerations there has to be a way to accommodate their discomfort without fostering the notion peddled by Jeff Charles (Southern Education site whose motives are more suspect than any teacher) that signals to the girls that their teachers are randy for or more likely are immune and foster defiance to all male teachers-coaches-principal.

Now to the handbook if CP works how to minimize other disciplinary sanctions likely to be less effective chosen? First as previously mentioned a student override of the option after parental consultation will be included in the handbook but now for the dicey part. Should a customary opt out check box and a check box applicable to girls indicating that you want a women present when CP is administered?

I can hear the ice cracking again but a girl old enough to accentuate her bottom to attract her peers shouldn't think the same of her teachers or as the song said backfield in motion I'm gonna have to penalize you. That didn't cross Nancy Guillens mind who saw it was no big deal by Steve Halter's gender.

I think Americans are very illogical, and confused, about this subject of CP. Apart from the fact that CP is allowed in some states while banned in others, I think it is ridiculous to talk about rules when each state, district or even school has its own rules about CP, how it is done and what merits it.
One could cite dozens of examples of these idiocinicracies.
Just to cite a few examples, some teachers can spank in class, others only in the corridor, others only by the principal. Some require a witness while others don't. Some can only be spanked by same sex teachers or principals while others don't. Some require the written permission of parents for pupils to be paddled while others don't. And one could go on with these glaring examples of confusion about CP in the US.