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corporal punishment in girls schools.

February 19 2003 at 7:29 PM
 

 
When I attended a girls' secondary school in Ireland in the early 1970s corporal punishment was occasionally administered with a cane. I was caned about two or three times each year. The canes used in the school were long and swishy with curved handles at one end. Canings usually consisted of two strokes on each hand but occassionally three on each hand were given. Canings were usually adminstered in private in a room adjoining the head's office. However, one of the canings I received was in front of my whole form when I was in third form. Miss Boardman, our form mistress, found me and three other girls smoking in the toilets during morning break. After the break she went to each third form classroom to instruct all third form girls to go to the assembly hall. When we were all gathered in the hall, she appeared with a cane. She called me and the other girls caught smoking to the front of the hall and gave each of us six of the best. She gave me the cane on another occasion for ducking detention.

I would be interested to know if other girls experienced canings at school. Were girls in UK schools caned?

 
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C. Nickel

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

February 19 2003, 8:55 PM 

You say the canes had a curved handle at one end?

They weren't your typical Irish cane, then (i.e a curved handle at both ends)?

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

February 19 2003, 9:44 PM 

"...corporal punishment was occasionally administered with a cane. I was caned about two or three times each year."

This was what you consider occasional? At my (English) girls grammar school I think the cane may have been used two or three times during all my years there. What would an Irish school have been like where the cane was used often?

And please tell us more about some of your teachers!

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

February 19 2003, 10:03 PM 

Anyone wishing to learn about the joys of an Irish upbringing may like to see "The Magdelene Sisters" when it reaches their local cinema. Peter Mullan’s horrific story of four girls interned in the Magdalene Asylums in Ireland recently won the Golden Lion Award at the Venice Film Festival.

Teenaged girls imprisoned for life in the 20th Century for looking a bit flirty?

No, I'm not joking.

See the film for yourselves and be prepared to shed a lot of tears and forever after carry a sickbag in your pocket in case you accidently pass a Catholic church or catch a glimpse of the Pope on TV.

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Re: Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

February 19 2003, 10:37 PM 

For over 150 years, the Magdalene Laundries existed to punish young women who had fallen foul of Ireland’s strict adherence to Catholic doctrine. Generations of women were hidden from society and deprived of their freedom because they had become pregnant out of wedlock, because a parish priest decreed they were ‘in moral danger’, or just because they were poor.

With nuns acting as jailers, the girls were cut off from their families and endured slave labour conditions, brutalized and bullied in an institution sanctioned by Church and Government.

Many spent their lives there, to be buried by the hundred in unmarked graves.

The last laundry closed as recently as 1996.

Let me repeat that - the last laundry closed as recently as 1996 and only since has the true horror of conditions in these institutions started to emerge.

Set in the 1960s The Magdalene Sisters dramatizes the lives of three women sent to a Magdalene Laundry as punishment for their ‘sins’. With exceptional performances throughout, it is an indictment of a system that put religious dogma before the rights of its children.

Mullan skilfully manages to avoid preaching or handwringing, and the real strength of the film is that he manages to deliver a powerful statement with such admirable restraint.

 
 
Sandra

Caning in English Girls Schools

March 1 2003, 2:59 PM 

I can assure you that English girls were caned at school in the 1960's and 1970's. I went to a direct grant school and I got caned a total of 5 times in my seven years there. Only our Headmistress could cane us, and we were always caned on the bottom. I was caned for smoking, fighting, reducing a trainee teacher to tears, and for not having my school work up to date when I was "on Report".

The Headmistress had two canes, a smaller one about 30 inches long that she used on first years and a 36 inch long cane that she used on others. Both had crook handles and hurt like hell! Normal punishment was 4 or 6 strokes.

 
 
Sue P

Caning in English Girls Schools

April 5 2003, 10:00 AM 

I was at a girls' grammar school in London back in the early 1960s and can confirm that the cane was in use. We had a Senior Mistress who administered any canings that were needed and I'm ashamed to say that my own bottom twice received what she always called "the benefit" of a caning.

I'd have to say that the cane was certainly not in use every day of the week or anything like that - indeed the vast majority of girls would have gone through school without ever seeing the cane, let alone feeling it.

Equally I'd have to admit that I deserved it both times - the first when I'd been caught carving the name of my then new boyfriend on my desk with the point of a compass, the second for smoking on the school field at lunchtime.

The cane was, as others have described, crook handled, and both times I got the standard six of the best. Thankfully all canings were administered in the privacy of the Senior Mistress' office, although - like any other girl - I was crying for a long while afterwards, much to the amusement of those girls who loved to tease on such occasions.

What more can I say? It damn well hurt!


 
 
Billy Biro

Re: Caning in English Girls Schools

April 5 2003, 4:16 PM 

Sue P,

Do you attend a school north of the Thames?

I know of no girls’ grammar school in South London where pupils were caned on the posterior.

 
 
Sue P

Caning

April 5 2003, 5:39 PM 

Yes Billy Biro, it was indeed north of the Thames - and a long time ago!

 
 
Peter

Re: Caning

April 5 2003, 6:21 PM 

Billy,

You are far too cynical. I believe every word that Sue P has written.

Sue,

Could you post some more details of corporal punishment at your school?

 
 
K

In Scotland

May 6 2003, 8:43 PM 

Nobody has mentioned Scotland yet, but I can assure you that in almost all Scottish schools until the mid 80s, the tawse was in regular use on girls as well as boys. The Scottish tawse is no toy either - it produces exceptionally painful bruising, but the culture was very much 'learn to be brave' and many girls I saw certainly were brave.

K.

 
 
Gillian

Re: In Scotland

May 6 2003, 8:59 PM 

It is good to have you with us, Kirsty!

Hugs and fuggs,

Gillian

 
 
snowdon

cp in girls schools

May 8 2003, 1:01 PM 

Can someone confirm exactly how hard girls are caned and was this usually over pants or trousers? What sort of marks were left?

 
 

cp in girls schools

May 8 2003, 2:57 PM 

Having gone to an all boys school I'm interested to know how severely administered is a girls caning? Is done full force or a light swing, also was this over pants or trousers and what marks were left?

 
 

Still in 2003?

May 18 2003, 5:54 PM 

I would be glad to chat with a mother who got the tawse years ago and is now using such tool with her own daughters.
Of corse no fetish but only real life experiences.
Tony

 
 

6 of the best

July 20 2003, 10:35 PM 

I was very interested to read of your public caning of 6 strokes of the cane.Were these stroke delivered to the palms of your hands,or to your buttocks?

Regards,

Myles

 
 

punished on a girls' school

July 21 2003, 3:18 AM 

Yes, I was also frequently punished at school in NZ, where my family lived in the 60's and early 70s.
It was at a girls' boarding, and the girls received a strap either on the hands or across the backs of the bare legs (calves). This really stung, especially when cold, and it left marks 'as an example to others'.
You could receive up to 6, though sometimes more for being caught with pornography, etc. At assembly, if you weren't paying attention properly, as distinct from actually talking, you'd get a flick on the bare legs with a light cane. Once my friend and I, for truancy, received 6 across the backs of the legs with a thin cane, and it really did hurt! For days afterwards, when getting up or sitting, the weight put on the legs caused excruciating pain.
It was no picnic getting strapped on the hands in class either. This was usually for talking, disobedience or lying. At the boys' boarding school, in another suburb, where my brother attended, they used the cane, often on the bare, though frequently on the hands or clothed bottom.
Any other girls ever get leathered or caned around the legs? What were your thoughts about it?

 
 

Caning in English Girls Schools

July 30 2003, 2:54 PM 

I can confirm that there was a South london girls grammar school which used the cane in the 50s.
I had a 15 year old girlfriend who bunked off school for the day so that we could go out together.I forged a sicknote from her mum but we had been seen and she was sent to the head. I can confirm quite categorically that she received six strokes of the cane across her knickers for her trouble at the end of afternoon school. I met her from school and she was in floods of tears and when we were back in her home I saw the marks which were very severe thick ridges and worse than I had seen on boys when I was at school. It took nearly three weeks for them to fade. This was my first experience of punishment being given to a female and in retrospect was probably the start of my interest in the subject.She told me that canings at the school were not frequent but always severe when given
So to any of you doubters, this WAS a true experience, the school is still in existance, albeit at a new location.I still bump into the girl occasionally, she is now married with grandchildren and has told me that the caning was a significant moment in her life and will never be forgotten.

 
 
Karen

To swampy

August 1 2003, 3:34 PM 

Would you please tell us at which school your girlfriend was caned.

Our Research Team are guessing at Honor Oak, Peckham Rye.

 
 

To Karen

August 1 2003, 7:39 PM 

I can confirm that it was not Honor Oak school...sorry

I am wary of giving an actual name after some of ther legal problems at Friends reunited but it was a girls grammar school in Catford which has now been demolished and moved to another location and the wore a navy blue and white uniform. Sure you will be able to guess from that if you know the area.

 
 
Karen

Re: To Karen

August 1 2003, 9:02 PM 

Thank you, swampy. You are almost as prim as dear old Fran of Wembley.

We know the area well. Captain John Harris, a flagellant much written about on this forum, often appeared as M.C. for the wrestling bouts at Catford Town Hall.

As you can see, we take great delight in naming names, but we promise not to disclose the name of the Girls’ Grammar School.

 
 
Robbie

Punishment Dress

August 3 2003, 12:07 AM 

I was caned as a third former during my first year
as a 13-year-old at a New Zealand all-boys high school. The punishment was administered by a pys ed
master who seemed to delight in causing us
almost unbearable pain (usually six strokes at a
time). We were made to wear only the barest of
essentials -- thin cotton PT shorts without
underpants and sandshoes (plimsolls) without socks.
He knew how to cane, leaving raised painful wheals as his trademark. The cotton shorts offered no protection whatsoever.

 
 
anna macandrew

caned by headmistress

August 30 2003, 3:39 PM 

I was caned at school only 20 years ago. I was caught cheating in a history exam and sent to the headmistress of my all-girls' boarding school in Wiltshire. She made me admit what I had done. I apologised but she said apologies were pointless.
I had to remove my school blazer and she removed her gown. She made me bend over her desk and then lifted up my skirt and folded it back. She took my knickers by their elastic and pulled them up tight. She tapped my bottom with the cane several times as she lectured me on the wickedness of what I had done. She announced I would receive six strokes and I had to count and thank her after each stroke.
I cannot describe the pain I suffered. In all the years since then I have never felt such pain. The marks stayed with me for over two weeks.
At least I never cheated again - not until I got married, of course !

 
 

Honor Oak, Peckham Rye.

August 31 2003, 11:48 AM 

I read with interest your message asking whether a girl was caned at Honor Oak School. Although the answer was no, I can promise you that at least one girl who attended this school was given a sound spanking on her bare bottom. I was the one who administered it!
I should add that this did not take place at school but in my bedroom and with her full consent so it hardly counts as corporal punishment. Nevertheless I thought that this might be of interest.
I am a newcomer to this group but I have already picked up that there seems to be a reluctance to believe any accounts of girls being caned on the bottom. My schooldays were spent at a S.E. London school in the early sixties and although girls were rarely caned, I did witness this on one occasion. A full account will follow which I assure you will be a true report of what happened

 
 

Re: Honor Oak School

August 31 2003, 11:55 AM 

I should have mentioned that my previous message should have been addressed to Karen.

 
 
Karen

Re: Honor Oak, Peckham Rye.

August 31 2003, 1:17 PM 

We look forward to reading your future messages, Richard.

We accept that girls were caned on the bottom at school, but tend not to believe accounts of girls being caned on the bare bottom.

There was a girl named Antoinette, known as Toni, who was a pupil at Honor Oak. She was into mild flagellation. Was it her that you spanked in your bedroom?


 
 

To Karen

September 1 2003, 3:04 PM 

No it wasn't Antoinette although she would have been welcome anytime.
You must have known her well or did she make no secret of her particular interest?

 
 
Karen

Re: To Karen

September 1 2003, 8:47 PM 

I knew Toni very well indeed when we were children. She liked to play spanking games.

 
 

Times change

September 5 2003, 12:55 AM 

As an irregular poster I am intregued by some of the doubts cast regarding experiences of girls receiving corporal punishment.I think that many posters are judging events by present day standards whereas those of us who were at school in the 40's and 50's know how different things were then. My lifelong passion for CP and all of it's conutations was moulded by my experiences at that time.
South London primary school in late 40's, most teachers had a hard slap. Regularly, the order was given to "fetch the cane and book" from the headmistress and on return it was one across each palm for boys or girls.Fifty odd years on I can still hear the swish and the crack now.More serious offences meant being punished by the head, a fearsome spinsterly lady, and it was always three on each hand.On a couple of occasions heads canings were administered in front of the school and I recall one where two girls and three boys had bullied a boy who had a leg caliper and they all got three on each hand.
Moving up at eleven I gained scholarship to a very good grammar school where the cane ruled absolute. Every master had either a cane or slipper which were in regular daily use in the classroom. Being sent to the head for any reason produced only one punishment, a very hard caning. Blazer off, shirt and vest pulled out of trousers and bent over, touching toes. Minimum was four, normally six, often eight and I did hear of the odd twelve. I suffered many times and the excrutiating pain still lives with me as does the sight in the mirror and on other boys of thick purple weals which stayed around for several weeks.I have never had the slightest desire to repeat or to switch !
As for girls, YES they were caned ( see my earlier post) at many schools and would often talk about it at youth club etc.Often today, at a dinner party or such, the topic of modern lack of discpline often arises and someone from our age group will always bring up the old school days and quite often one of the women will talk about a caning they had at school in the 50's.
Going back futher, my mother once told me that she was regularly caned at school back in the 20's as she often had to miss school to help at home.
Sorry for the long post but I have to say to some of the younger ones, living in this discipline free, human rights dominated society that all of these things did happen 40 or 50 years ago. I could give many more examples but fell that I have said enough for now.

 
 
Anonymous

tawse

September 5 2003, 7:07 AM 

Of corse [sic] Tony, no fetish. Get a f****** life mate!

 
 
jenny

wee

September 30 2003, 2:25 AM 

yea ithink so

 
 

caning in english schools

October 9 2003, 3:08 PM 

was it on the bare bottom? do you think the headmistress enjoied it?

 
 
Brenda

Caning in Girls Schools

October 28 2003, 6:18 AM 

I was caned 3 times during my school years during the 1960s. The cane was administered by the headmistress in the privacey of her office.
She had two canes in a tall cabinet on the right of her desk, both had the crook handles.
I received 3,4 and 6 strokes respectively the times I visited her. We were caned across our bottle green school knickers and she could really send you back to class with a well striped bottom and in tears.
Caning was not a regular occurrence compared to my brother's school were it was almost a daily event.


 
 

Cane for girls

October 31 2003, 1:09 AM 

I attended a lancs grammar school. The cane was given to boys on their clothed bottoms for serious offences or repetition of offences. Girls could be caned on the hand but rarely were. There was a general assumption that boys needed the cane periodically but girls did not.

 
 

caned schoolgirls

October 31 2003, 9:36 AM 

Hello to everyone; I've just joined this interesting forum and would like to add my experience to this thread. I attended Worcester King's School in the early '60's and a few of us were friendly with some girls from the Alice Ottley School in Worcester. In the summer we used to meet up most evenings after school on the riverbank just as a group of friends. We were around 14 years old at the time. One evening one of the girls started to tell us that she had been caned that morning and after a bit of persuasion she lifted her skirt and pulled her knickers aside to show us the marks. I had been caned myself not that long previous and could tell from the red stripes that it had been done quite strictly. She had been caught smoking and had been warned before. The caning had taken place in a private study and she had to bend over the end of a desk. I can't remember if the headmistress did it, but the schoolmistress who did lifted her skirt out of the way and then gave her six strokes on top of her knickers. She said that it really did sting and she cried. When she showed us, the stinging had subsided and she was quite proud of the marks. I certainly enjoyed looking at them.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: caned schoolgirls

October 31 2003, 1:53 PM 

An amusing little story, Tony.

Pity there's not a word of truth in it.


 
 
tony james

caned schoolgirls

October 31 2003, 4:28 PM 

How can you say that when you were not there? I was trying to make a serious contribution to the thread by giving an account of a real event. I agree I only have the word of the girl that it was done in school, but I believed her at the time. Perhaps she was lying and her father had done it, but there is no doubt that she had been caned. Personally, I only call someone a liar if I have a reason to do so.
The Alice Ottley school and the King's School are still there and in the 1960's there was strict discipline imposed in both schools.

 
 
curious onlooker

Re: caned schoolgirls

October 31 2003, 7:40 PM 

there are a lot of fantastic stories and this may be one but see no reason why yours should be dismissed offhand-quite usual on this forum (to be dismissive), I believe..did you find the experience very erotic?

 
 
tony james

caned schoolgirls

October 31 2003, 8:23 PM 

Thanks for your interest. I didn't think it was much of a story. I only posted it to confirm that girls did get the cane. It was a long time ago and I was only 14 but I did enjoy looking at her bare legs and cheeks as she pulled her knickers to one side. I was a bit late in getting interested in girls and didn't have a proper date until I was 17 years old; I was looking forward to getting a motorbike and when I was 16 did become part of the 1960's 'rocker' scene. I suppose the girl concerned was a bit of a tease and enjoyed the exhibitionist part of showing us. We used to meet in the evenings as a group of friends at that age so there was nothing sexual ever happening. There is a website for both the Alice Ottley and the King's school. I am a member of the 'old boys' club, and am an 'Old Vigornian' named after the Latin name for Worcester.

 
 
curious onlooker

Re: caned schoolgirls

November 3 2003, 6:01 PM 

I think people do believe that girls have been caned in the not too recent past and indeed there is no reason offhand to doubt your story. There have been legitimate concerns about the extent and magnitude-many of the stories do not appear credible-howver seeing that only people who are interseted in CP contribute, we are certain to get an above the average number of female CP incidents posted anyway. It is not incredible that after having been caned a girl may enjoy a certain amount of exhibitionism either

 
 

caned schoolgirls

November 4 2003, 2:46 AM 

I'm not certain whether this forum is interested in fact or fantasy? I think that if anyone has doubts about a post being genuine then they should take the time to find some facts to show this to be so. The story that I posted was genuine and I did name the school that the girl went to, unlike some other posts.
I do have another story which confirms to me that the cane really was used at the Alice Ottley School for girls.

 
 
Tracey

Re: caned schoolgirls

November 4 2003, 5:34 AM 

Please post your story that confirms to you that the cane really was used at the Alice Ottley School for girls.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: caned schoolgirls

November 4 2003, 7:07 AM 

Nobody's saying the cane wasn't used at that school.

It may or may not have been, but that's not the point.

The point is that Tony's story is a load of bollards.

It never happened.

 
 

caned schoolgirls

November 4 2003, 9:50 AM 

I think Lotta Nonsense is making genuine people like myself think "Why should I bother?" The site will miss out on hearing interesting factual stories which surely was the original point of the site? If Lotta Nonsense has evidence that a story is a fiction then he or she should explain why. For example, Lotta Nonsense originally said that there was no truth in any of my story. I can at least prove that I lived in Worcester and went to the King's School. I know the girl was caned because I saw the marks. I said previously that I believed her, but she could have been caned by her father. However,the way the other girls talked at the time it appeared common knowledge that she had been caned at school.I cannot actually prove that the girl in question was caned as I lost touch with all my old school friends when I left the area. I will repeat what I said before; I don't call someone a liar unless I have proof.

 
 
steve

Re: caned schoolgirls

November 4 2003, 3:10 PM 

I do not particularly care whether the stories on the site are fact or fiction. They are all well written and interesting.

 
 

stuff & nonsense

November 4 2003, 11:47 PM 

I wish Lotta Nonsense would find himself a new name and occupation instead of trying to discredit stories posted onto this site. Is lotta Nonsense a cynical oldie who regrets not having gone to the right school to witness CP on a daily basis or are they so young that they cannot remember a time before mobile phones and childrens rights. There were no childrens rights in the fifties and sixties, most kids just kept quiet about what went on at school for fear of receiving some further punishment at home.

 
 
Ian

Punishment Dress

December 11 2003, 3:28 AM 

I can go even one better. I once received 6 cuts on the palms from the headmaster for smoking. He was reknowned for his ability to use the cane. I then had to go immediately to PE, but had forgotten my house singlet, so the PE master gave me a further 6 cuts, very similar to the headmaster in severity, but this time on the soles of my bare feet. I then had to do 4 laps of the adjoining oval - in my bare feet - to reinforce the punishment. I then went home, but got another 4 cuts from the headmaster next day for truanting.

 
 
Belinda Kite

The Cane

April 30 2008, 3:39 AM 

Girls at my comprehensive in wiltshire were caned on rare occasions as were the boys. Must confess to experiencing a call to the Headmasters office during a history lesson some 22 years ago at the age of 15.

I was mystified as to why I was called as the incident had happened some weeks before. All became clear when I was informed that I was seen out in the local village during school time which I couldn't deny. Things became a whole lot worse when I smirked when asked for an explanation. What happened after was like a bad dream....This was in the mid eighties when caning was almost at an end and I never for one moment thought that it could happen to me.

My Headmaster calmly went to a cupboard and produced the cane. i couldn't believe my eyes but assumed he was just showing it to me as a warning. He then deliberately left it on the desk and told me to wait there. He left the office and I just stared at this bamboo stick which was long with a curved handle and fairly thick. i just stood there frozen. He came back after a minute or two and I realized it was serious when he brought in my form mistress who smiled sympathetically.

I was then informed that I should be ashamed of myself as I was to become the first girl to be caned in over a year. Believe me I was trembling in fear at this point. He picked up the cane and told me to stand in front of the desk with my hands on it..At first I thought he was going to cane my hands on the desk but then he stood behind me and before I knew it there was a whack on my bottom. There was no pain for a second or two then I had to let out a loud ouch..I had to stand up straight after the 2nd and after being told to resume the position the 3rd really had me smarting so much that I cried.

My tutor then said 'we're sorry it had to come to this Belinda' and the head put the cane away (never to be seen by me again). I was told to go back to class but it had finished by the time I got there. I wandered round in a daze that lunchtime. It still hurt even though I didn't get hit particularly hard.

The worst thing was that in assembly the next day it was announced that 'a pupil' had been caned yesterday and the reason why. Our head of year then said had she not found it so amusing a detention would have sufficed...Of course the word 'she' gave it away and knowing i'd been sent out of class the previous day most people in my class put 2 and 2 together though I denied it.

Altogether an absolute humiliation but i would still advocate bringing back the cane today. I certainly never smirked or answered a teacher back again.

Thank you for reading,
Belinda

 
 
Research Assistant 2

RE: The Cane

April 30 2008, 6:43 AM 

Thank you for sending in such a nicely expressed account, Belinda. It is possible that you have the honour of being the last girl to be caned in a Wiltshire school.

 
 

belinda's caning

May 4 2008, 10:10 AM 

Hi Belinda. Interesting story. Would love to chat further. My hotmail address is kagoul.

 
 
SueDenim1

CP in 1980s convent schools

May 20 2008, 1:58 PM 

I know a woman who was expelled from a convent school in the early 90s. She's hinted darkly that she was caned often but given no details. Can anyone confirm that caning went on in RC schools as late as this?

 
 
Simon

re: CP in 1980s convent schools

May 20 2008, 4:45 PM 

If such punishments took place, the school would have had to be outside the state sector and caning would almost certainly be done on the hand.

 
 
SueDenim1

Reply

May 21 2008, 3:09 PM 

It was a Catholic private school in the northwest. I couldn't believe it when I heard it. She said she hated it at the time but she came to appreciate when she got into S and M. At my state school the cane was just a myth.

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

May 25 2008, 9:59 AM 

Yes Belinda there were girls schools in wiltshire where the cane was used right up until it was abolished!

 
 
Belinda Kite

The Cane

July 25 2008, 11:20 AM 

Really Pete? Which schools were these? I was not at a girls school but a mixed comprehensive. I won't say which one as I don't wish to be pinpointed.

 
 
Eric

Catholic Schools

July 25 2008, 1:08 PM 

The worst stories I heard about physical punishments were from people who attended catholic schools,run by both nuns and priests.
But it was usually not the cane used but a leather strap across the buttocks for boys and on the hands for girls.
And in catholic orphanages it was even worse,along with other physical abuses.
I know this because I've talked with many of these victims who were at these schools and orphanages.

 
 
Kelly

corporal punishment in girls schools

July 25 2008, 2:11 PM 

The only type of punishment that was commonly used in girls schools after say the mid 1970s were thigh slapping and slippering across the knickers. These could only be administered by female teachers.

All these stories of severe canings are on the whole sheer nonsense. Although it is possible that some occurred but it would have been very unlikely.

 
 
mimi

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

July 25 2008, 2:31 PM 

Why unlikely Kelly, look at Corpun.

 
 
Kelly

corporal punishment in girls schools

July 25 2008, 9:55 PM 

I still stand by my claim that 99% of cp in girls schools in the UK would had involved a trip to the front desk for either slapped legs or a smacked bottom.

This would involve an open hand only and would obviously be administered only by a female teacher.

I estimate that less than 1% of girls attending a girls school in the UK during the time when cp was legal would have been caned.

I attended at least 3 different girl schools during the late 1970s and early 1980s and never witnessed or heard of any girl ever being caned. However I am not saying it never happened. I am just saying it was highly unlikely.

 
 
Statistician

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

July 26 2008, 9:11 PM 

Kelly, may we be party to the intricate calculations which presumably underpin the very precise percentages you quote above?

 
 
Kelly

corporal punishment in girls school

July 27 2008, 5:36 AM 

Well I think it is very obvious that the only purpose of cp in a classroom situation is to maintain order. Most misbehaviour in the class would have been talking, etc. It is also obvious that no teacher in their right mind is going to cane a girl for simply talking in class.

Therefore ipso facto most cp would be proportionate to the alleged misdemeanor. In my experience at school (all girls) if you were talking in class, the teacher just asked you to pease be quiet, and in the majority of cases most girls complied.

If any girl was foolish enough to ignore the warning, then she most probably would be sorted out at the fron desk (female teachers only). This was usually very effective. Problem solved. While I admit that girls were sometimes sent to the senior mistress for harsher punishments such as slippering, this was relatively rare. I cannot think of any realistic situation that would require a girl to be caned.




 
 
mimi ( male )

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

July 27 2008, 11:44 AM 

Reasons that I personally know of girls being caned:-
Talking in class, lateness, rudeness, fighting, smoking, having possesion of ciggies.
In fact anything you name could result in what would now be called serious CP.
My teacher friend ( who never used CP) tells me that ( with experience) from the front of the class, even with back turned, one is well aware of what is going on. More so than the pupils themselves.
Teachers would make examples of misscreants to ensure discipline in the classroom was maintained before it got out of control.
They were in a position of control.It was their responsibility to ensure the smooth running of the class and they would do so with any means required.
Wether we like it or not classrooms today are a disgrace with an undisciplined rabble. In the past you could hear a pin drop.

 
 
Eric

To Swampy

July 27 2008, 11:59 AM 

This is a very interesting topic with some very intersting posts. It's a shame that most of them were posted in 2003. I would have asked Swampy,if she's still around,if the boys in her class or school were caned on bare buttocks in front of girls,since she said that she saw the marks left by the cane on the boys' buttocks.

 
 
Saratoga

corporal punishment in girls schools

July 27 2008, 12:03 PM 

I think your china plate swampy has been posting to the wrong forum. He should use the linkk below:

www.porkpies.org

 
 
Eric

Girls and bare Boys

July 27 2008, 1:50 PM 

Yes,but we must give her the benefit of the doubt,since she was talking about an upbringing in New Zealand. And we know that different countries have different customs,even in schools.
So could someone who is familiar with New Zealand customs or education please illuminate us on this?

 
 
Belinda Kite

The Cane

April 24 2009, 3:16 AM 

Just checking any response to my message from last year...

Have been thinking about my visit to the headmaster alot recently.It holds a morbid fascination for me...The most terrifying moment of all was when the dreaded cane was taken from the top shelf of his cupboard...Just remember seeing a terrifying flash of yellow bamboo as it came out.When I was left to stare at it on the desk my mouth was dry and I remember when the absolutely terrifying moment came when I was told that that horrible cane was going to be applied to me..I remember feeling dizzy and weak.. And the complete shock when I actually got the cane on my bottom..Had always assumed it would be on the hand.

Despite my fascination I have no desire for a repeat caning though did submit to a couple of spankings by my ex boyfriend...A fascinating subject indeed.

 
 
Alan

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

May 26 2009, 12:47 PM 

My wife would really relate to the fear thing you refer to Belinda.

Im getting on a bit now so if I need a bit of a stimulus in the bedroom I get Alison to recount her school caning back in the late 60s. It always has the desired effect on me. One of the things that sticks out most in Alis mind, all these years later, is the fear she felt. Fear whilst she waited outside the headmistresses office door and the knee knocking, leg trembling,sweating for England fear she felt when the cane was produced from the heads cupboard. She was simply unable to take her eyes off it.

Like you, Alison certainly had no desire for a repeat visit.

 
 
Julie

Slippered at school

June 18 2009, 5:34 AM 

So far as I know my school never used the cane on girls though boys did get it on the hands. I saw the marks a few times on boys'hands and it was obvious that it had to really hurt.

Girls could get the slipper from senior women teachers and other teachers would send you to report to them after school when one would be on duty.

This happened to me twice, once when I was in the second year for fighting with another girl - who was also sent with me for the slipper - and once in the fourth year when three girls and two boys were caught smoking behind a shed on the playing fields. The boys got the cane from the headmaster after assembly next morning but me and the two other girls were sent for the slipper after school the same day.

Both times I had to bend over a low stool and was smacked with the slipper over my school skirt. The first time we both got 2 whacks each and the second time it was 4 whacks.

It was a different teacher both times for me and the second time was a lot harder and I thik all of us cried

 
 
Mary McGregor

corporal punishment in girls school

June 20 2009, 9:28 AM 

Yes the slipper was used quite often by the senior mistress. Serious misconduct would often result in bending over for 6 of the best with skirt raised.

 
 
Belinda Kite

The cane

October 8 2009, 2:02 AM 

Well Alan, poor Alison..I can certainly relate to that fear..Words cannot describe how I felt when I realised I was going to get The Cane. Can certainly relate to the 'weak knees'. Also recall feeling very hot, pretty sure my face was bright red to be honest, it certainly was in assembly the next day when it felt like everybody was looking at me, even though i wasn't officially recognised...Also vividly recall shifting in my seat when the announcement was made and could still feel the lines that the cane had inflicted across my bottom throbbing...Ouch!!

 
 
Jenny

Cane and Slipper

October 8 2009, 1:34 PM 

At my school, in the 60s and early 70s, for boys and girls alike it was generally the slipper in class and the cane from the headmistress.

 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 15 2009, 9:26 PM 

By now you may know I attended 12 years of coed Sisters of Mercy schools. A yardstick while being asked to bend over a student desk while facing (grimacing) happened infrequently but enough to deter. No girl was on the receiving end. The principals office afforded no privacy and I'm sure they may have employed it if it were an all girl school but probably figured that parents wouldn't tolerate it. Now thanfully Southern handbooks forbid it. With the risk of offending I would not like to see a girl be put through that. I wouldn't think of it as fair play. Paddling with built in safeguards is another story. Call me a male chauvinist pig but public humiliation is wrong for both genders but I think a girl being put through that would be more traumatic in most cases. We wouldn't want that to happen to either one of ours but more so our daughter.

I can never understand how one can experience that and shake it off as if it were a non event while others never get over it. There seems to be no happy medium in that respect. Maybe they weren't as easiliy embarrassed or just wanted to get it over with? Or maybe it was a guilt (there was enough of that going around) relieving catharsis? It befuddles me to this day.

This clip must have been referenced before in this estimable Forum but it does pertain to this thread. The Brides of Christ was an Australian television mini series shot in 1991 and who would have known that two actors (Naomi Watts and Russell Crowe) would become movie megastars?

How much of that scene was real and how much of that was special effects? Maybe a take or two of a stroke would help them enter into the scene but I'm sure that will be down someone's alley. IMHO there was less a fetish effect than today where producers and directors clumsily work scene into the plot. You Tube gives a lot of the movie away so you can watch Russell Crowe hone his acting skills in other clips from the mini series.

BTW. After every Sister of No Mercy (they were use to be calling that for generations) name were the letters RSM for Reverend Sisters of Mercy. I was in that dreaded eight grade when I coined it Really Small Minds. happy.gif

Girls Corporal Punishment

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 15 2009, 10:17 PM 

Hi American Way

You say:

Call me a male chauvinist pig but public humiliation is wrong for both genders but I think a girl being put through that would be more traumatic in most cases. We wouldn't want that to happen to either one of ours but more so our daughter.

You are a brave man, American Way! It will not surprise me in the slightest if you are severely mauled by our new and esteemed fellow contributor Jenny!

As regards the video you have linked to, doubtless you are aware who posted it on YouTube? Like yourself she enjoys the status of Honorary Life Member of this estimable Forum.

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools

October 16 2009, 12:03 AM 

Hi American Way

You said: With the risk of offending I would not like to see a girl be put through that. I wouldn't think of it as fair play.

You took no risk of offending - it was an absolute certainty. If it's OK for a boy, why not a girl? Please explain how unfairness can be "fair play".

Paddling with built in safeguards is another story. Call me a male chauvinist pig but public humiliation is wrong for both genders but I think a girl being put through that would be more traumatic in most cases. We wouldn't want that to happen to either one of ours but more so our daughter.

If something is wrong, it's wrong. I agree it shouldn't happen to boys or girls but, if a boy is expected to suffer public humiliation as (part of) a punishment, there's no reason a girl shouldn't.

Most of the time, special considerations ostensibly intended to benefit us, have exactly the opposite effect. The rest of the time, they just demean us.


 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 16 2009, 7:46 PM 

Jenny: It is standard corporal punishment policy (linked below) that age, gender and physical condition are to be considered in TN and the American Way. Few girls are crying foul (O'm being demeaned) while being paddled. Boys should be hit as hard as any boy and girls should be hit as hard as any girl. That's not demeaning that is commons sense as is age and physical condition mentioned. Who does the paddling of course makes a difference because all don't paddle equally but always within boundaries.

What gender does the paddling is more a big deal with Paula Flowe than the students on the receiving end as prof n already has astutely noted. Maybe due to my own lack of testicular fortitude my only concern would be who hit the hardest. Girls are more conscious of their bodies and boys are more conscious of girls bodies and some things are best done in private for both genders.

Jenny I'm not trying to agitate or be a bee in your bonnet but I must respond out of fear that my silence may be taken to be consent.

It is standard corporal punishment policy that age, gender and physical condition do matter in TN (subject of a gender discrimination suit previously linked) and in the American Way.

American Way CP Policy

Tennessee CP Policy






 
 

Re :cp in girls schools

October 16 2009, 11:54 PM 



Hi American Way,

In our own forum there seems to be some consensus Jenny, Doctor Dominum and his boys, myself and my ex school mates that actually women punish just as hard if not harder than men,


a good question for gender sex and size....girls could get it harder than men! Comments????

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 17 2009, 12:55 AM 

Hi American Way

You said:
It is standard corporal punishment policy (linked below) that age, gender and physical condition are to be considered in TN and the American Way.

Physical condition is clearly a valid consideration. Age too, albeit to a lesser extent. I can even accept that gender could, at a stretch, be a valid consideration but I completely fail to see the relevance of a person's sex to whether corporal punishment is reasonable. Can you explain it?

Few girls are crying foul (O'm being demeaned) while being paddled.

That seems to agree with my argument. It's demeaning to tell a girl that she won't be paddled because, as a girl, she's considered to frail.

Boys should be hit as hard as any boy and girls should be hit as hard as any girl. That's not demeaning that is commons sense

It what way is it common sense to hit a young, frail, boy harder than an older, tough, girl? Or do you mean that, all else being equal, the boy should be hit harder just for being male?

as is age and physical condition mentioned.

So which takes priority? Sex, age, or physical condition?

... and some things are best done in private for both genders.

I wouldn't argue with that.

Jenny I'm not trying to agitate or be a bee in your bonnet but I must respond out of fear that my silence may be taken to be consent.

I welcome reasoned argument - please continue. Every time I have to counter an argument, I have to re-examine my own position and question its validity.


 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 17 2009, 1:27 AM 

prof n I'm honored that you asked. Are you trying to get me in trouble with Jenny? happy.gif I can't be much a help for I have only the Sisters who were so gentle and merciful of heart and no man to judge it by. Maybe because of the sugar and spice factor (astutely mentioned on this estimable Forum perhaps by you prof n) the man doesn't hit her as hard as she deserves. IMHO both unfair and unprofessional. Better for him to leave that to a woman if he detects that motive. Call me equal rights in that regard.

OTOH women (especially coaches) may swing harder for being made to feel second class and not being able play in boy's games due to deficiencies surrounding size and fitness that more often than not is helped by their gender. This year Arkansas girls (Teachers Chatboard) join in the consensus that woman coaches and vice principals paddle harder than men IMHO both unfair and unprofessional. Better for her to leave that to a man if she detects that motive. Call me equal rights in that regard.

Size, age and gender matter in sports but good Lord any able body adult irrespective of size, age (Dr Dominum included happy.gif or gender should be able to paddle wisely by calibrating according to age, gender or physical condition as common sense dictates.


 
 

CP in girl's schools

October 17 2009, 1:45 AM 



Hi american Way7,

Pretty much what I thought you might reply happy.gif

You know my position on coaches!!!! sad.gif sad.gif

Seriously though, I think this is why it is so important to have proper regulations for administration, even if not as detailed as those I posted elsewhere (CP 1) from her in the 70's. After all as I said before my friend paddled through her whole career with never a complaint, but she was taught to use a set procedure, with set TWP style limits to each stroke ( even if you got a lot of them and a paddle with those pesky holes!!!!).

When in England , using the cane she followed all the other staff and IMHO hit a lot harder with that than the paddle...hence her equation of 2 paddle stokes = one of the best with the cane.



 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 17 2009, 3:42 AM 

Sex should play absolutely no role in determining who receives CP. We are in agreement on valid considerations on the administration of the punishment of course all things being equal. Fairness in policy (matrices) are written in the handbooks and many are astounded that so many girls are paddled in the states. Others were astounded that they would choose paddling over another punishment. They have unfounded preconceptions based on outdate stereotypes. I am proud to say my grown daughter has disabused me of almost all those notions. But I'm still not jiggy about coed wrestling. happy.gif

On the surface there does seem to be an unfair burden on the girls when you read a paragraph on the boys' dress code and a page for the girls' but I'm sure the parents are battling that issue with their daughters while other issues with their. We had uniforms in the Catholic school so that wasn't as much a problem. Reasoned discourse must be based on mutual respect and none is lacking for you Jenny from my side of the pond.

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 17 2009, 12:08 PM 

Hi American Way

You said:
Fairness in policy (matrices) are written in the handbooks and many are astounded that so many girls are paddled in the states.

That's simply explained. Despite the propaganda, girls are just a badly behaved as boys so, once you remove the anti-male bias, just as many girls will be punished.

Others were astounded that they would choose paddling over another punishment.

I think I've explained that: so-called lesser punishments are often a lot worse. I sometimes wonder if that's the intention - to treat girls badly while appearing to do the opposite. wink.gif

But I'm still not jiggy about coed wrestling.

That's fair enough - you don't have to take part. There are many things I don't like but that doesn't give me the right to stop others doing them.


On the surface there does seem to be an unfair burden on the girls when you read a paragraph on the boys' dress code and a page for the girls'...

I can't comment on the US but in the UK it's usually the other way around. Dress codes for boys and men are a lot stricter than those for girls and women.

Reasoned discourse must be based on mutual respect and none is lacking for you Jenny from my side of the pond.

Thank you, I hope I reciprocate well.


 
 
American Way

Not Much to Disagree with Jenny

October 17 2009, 1:08 PM 

girls are just a badly behaved as boys so, once you remove the anti-male bias, just as many girls will be punished.

Not much to disagree with your recent posting but I'm not sure if by removing an anti-male basis you mean changing the enforcement and/or the rules. The disparity IMHO cannot be accounted even in TN padllings with at 11,000 boys paddled and only 4,000 girls. On the giving the CP/Suspension choice I assume you are kidding with your wink emoticon or at least I hope so. I gree what the wrestlers do in other schools is their business but as a parent or as a Principal I would make it my business.

That's not a lot with so many counties banning it and often in heavily populated cities where more often than not you have the most transplants from areas of the country where paddlings are banned. IMHO the local districts make the call and keep in mind often times are elected by their own regional population.

Contrast that with back door and closed room politicians in the State Capitol (with the politicians far from the classroom in the districts where it seems to be working) and far too willing to give the national anti-CP zealots a willing ear and the Governor of Ohio will listen to his constituents from highly populated urban areas and other states who have banned CP much to the consternation of TWP who have the courage to submit to the slings and arrows of the likes of them.

They have given their own award to Ohio Governor Ted Strickland as a profile in cowardice in that regard. Prior to that another heavily populated state Pennsylvania took that approach to impose their agenda on the Amish and the Mennonites and upon my beloved(Turkeyfoot) a communities sensible policy that will be heavily incorporated in the student handbook that has been such a slow work in progress. I will not place Renee et al into my pantheon of those who have the courage to submit because they don't need me singing their praises with 100 posting in our estimable Forum. Their inclusion would imply they need my help and I am far to wise to assume that.



 
 

Re: Not Much to Disagree with Jenny

October 17 2009, 1:57 PM 

Hi American Way




I think I've explained that: so-called lesser punishments are often a lot worse. I sometimes wonder if that's the intention - to treat girls badly while appearing to do the opposite. wink.gif

You said:
Not much to disagree with your recent posting but I'm not sure if by removing an anti-male basis you mean changing the enforcement and/or the rules.

Definitely enforcement and possibly the rules. Rules which apply to only one sex need to either be abolished or amended to apply to both sexes. Rules such as "boys must open doors for girls." The rest of the rules should be enforced on both sexes equally. It's very common for, especially low level, misbehaviour by girls to be overlooked but severely jumped on when a boy does exactly the same thing. The boys are often punished not only for their own misbehaviour but for that of their female classmates too.

The disparity IMHO cannot be accounted even in TN padllings with at 11,000 boys paddled and only 4,000 girls.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Doesn't that go some way to proving my point? Do you really think boys are 2.75 times as badly behaved as girls?


On the giving the CP/Suspension choice I assume you are kidding with your wink emoticon or at least I hope so.

The emoticon was to indicate that my suggestion that "I sometimes wonder if that's the intention - to treat girls badly while appearing to do the opposite." was not entirely serious and was most definitely not an accusation directed at you. I think it does happen on occasion but only very rarely. Giving a choice of CP rather than suspension to a boy, but not offering a girl that option, suggests that a girl's education is considered less important.


 
 
prof.n

corporal punishment in girls schools

October 17 2009, 2:53 PM 


American Way/ Jenny

One major factor in the unequal paddling of girls and boys in the South don't forget is that many more girls never get the choice, because a much higher proportion of girls' parents 'opt out' with no paddle forms. This is most marked at Senior High School where I understand from my recent visit it may be 2 or 3 girls to 1 boy!

The only way round this it seems to me is to put more power in the hands of the students. Some Principals will allow 'no paddle ' kids to make a choice and then contact the parents to see if they are prepared to change their minds. I know my friend did this many times, and said often it works on the basis that the parents say to the child ' We've tried to protect you, but if you want to ...well you are doing it with your eyes open...don't say we didn't warn you ....etc'!


Anyway 16/17 year olds should be old enough to decide!

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 17 2009, 3:24 PM 

Hi prof.n

You've explained the discrepancy, thank you.

...the parents say to the child ' We've tried to protect you, but if you want to ...

Rephrased: "We've tried to put your butt before your education but, if you think your education is more important..."


 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 17 2009, 4:03 PM 



Spot on prof n and I will incorporate that codicil (not quite the right word) in the handbook. Unless you packed on more pounds than I've judging from that picture you have proven more valuable than your weight in goal. happy.gif Seriously the 2 to 3 to 1 opting out may not be all that much of a factor because from what I gather from the Teachers Chat board few parents do. Since students are suspended for other reasons than refusing CP the only indication of 25% fewer girls (surprising to some but I'm sure not to your friend) submitting to the paddle is from that forum.

prof n and others who may share an interests do you give much credence to the Chat board postings? I didnt as I said before until Alvin TX numbers seemed cuckoo turn out to be reasonable. First hand accounts on the giving end seem more credible than on the receiving account.

Has anyone entered the OCR data and viewed the statistics that Colin Farrell has culled his statistics from? Just search (Center for Effective Discipline) and hit discipline at school and voila. I am unless mistaken disappointed in Corpun for not publishing and if you recall on this estimable Forum I asked where they got their material. Maybe they should for it is better to teach a child how to fish and once you learn how to navigate the site its not very hard to do.

I said before I would opt my daughter out but not my son but with that codicil I would be free to opt in if she found the alternative too burdensome and some of those circumstances could be discussed in advance as hypotheticals. From the Chat board students often choose a paddling that they complain about but who put themselves in that position to begin with?

BTW. I ridiculed the detailed student appeal form (from another thread) with only in America comment but upon further reflection it does afford a 16 or 17 year old with dignity despite their lapse on judgment or surrender to their code defying proclivities. That form will also work it's way into the handbook unless others can convince me to the contrary. Again to PDF that file within the handbook with a click within the handbook is beyond my technical expertise. We'll see when we get there.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: PDF files in handbooks

October 17 2009, 8:27 PM 

Hi American Way. Poor Another_Lurker is feeling very left out of things in this estimable Forum, what with all the heavyweights with personal experience on the receiving end of CP pitching in and Jenny also doing the System Programmer bit by spotting other people's deliberate mistakes (tut tut prof.n happy.gif) It was therefore with some relief that I noticed in your post above:

That form will also work it's way into the handbook unless others can convince me to the contrary. Again to PDF that file within the handbook with a click within the handbook is beyond my technical expertise. We'll see when we get there.

Ask and help may be at hand. BTW how is the emoticons in email project going?

 
 
prof.n

Re Opting out & chatboard

October 18 2009, 2:01 AM 


Hi American Way,

I think there is a difference between States.and rural/urban . central urban schools tend to not to paddle or paddle less IMHO often because of strings to federal funds for improvement etc.

Rural religious states and sreas more paddling. the interest in gone is the middle class suburbs. Often ISD's in their own right , paddling supported by parents, but with a substantial minority opposed. Here the issue of age looms large, perhaps why TWP are rather reticent on this one A lot of parents sign out their girls over 14 , yet it is 14 upwards when a large part of paddling occurs.Hence the statistics Although an unfashionable view, the administrators suggest it is in the late teen years that paddling can make a real difference to behaviour patterns as all behaviour then is truly 'voluntary'.

My friend always indicates that it is around 15/16 for boys and a little later for girls that the greatest behaviour challenges occur. If I demur, or quote TWP, she says IMHO look at your own record with me, and then tell me I'm wrong!!!! . That's too near the knuckle for comfort!


Chat board. Weird in my opinion .I agree the receivers are not credible, and the givers more so, but still it sits uncomfortably, reads more like a suspect web site..not for teachers......can't put my finger on it .....but then Mississippi and Alabama ........Have you seen the Family guy where the Griffins are forcibly relocated to the rural South in a witness protection programme? Just a thought.......

 
 
American Way

Teacher Chatboard Credibility

October 19 2009, 4:58 AM 

prof n we agree that there are postings that are unsettling. This is a pattern I have found. It is most evident where the same names crop up on the subject or they use goofy pseudonyms or when threads that grow long quickly (closer in dates) or where the names are sillier and they only post when it involves this subject. As soon as a bogus posting (Lauren in link below) enters the thread the legitimate posters stop and the thread end abruptly or someone intervenes to put an end to the nonsense.

Another dead give away is high school students rarely post except on this topic so that indicates their entries to be most likely bogus. For then to be appealing for sympathy could be a Paula plant or someone with less than savory motives. Young teachers would be relating middle school paddlings (even in the late nineties when paddlings were becoming less frequent) and not just relating high school junior and seniors when hopefully not in much on the verge of going to college.

That being said there are postings that seem like they're the real McCoys and shed light on what is going on today in the south. IMHO the one who started the post Amy Meyers is the real McCoy. Hers is like thousand posts on the chatboard that dont relate to CP. Your teacher friend from the south has been of great help as are the real or less susceptible postings in this chatboard. When you see an email address or someone not going from state to state posting about CP you get real stories.

I know how valuable the UK Friends United postings reminiscing with schools you are familiar with are the closer to the corps of this estimable Forum what goes on today with CP in the states may or may not be of interests to readers here. Like Dr Dominum it relates but unlike Dr Dominum doesn't afford an opportunity to enter into a dialogue so lacking that TWP and the Teacher Chatboard is as close as one can get to what is going on in real time.

A short thread without undue elaboration gives me a clearer idea of what is going on more than the student handbooks with their code of conduct and disciplinary sanctions because the schools that paddle the most either don't publish one available online. This previously linked source I have found more helpful than seem likely to be bogus. Again bracket Laurens post (the thought of a tennis racket was amusing) and when you sift IMHO it is worth the task.

It is not just corporal punishment that causes paperwork as the second link indicates. Dr Dominum how would you like to deal with something like this? It makes the running lists look like childs play?


Teacher Chatboard


Didcipline Incident Training Material

 
 
prof,n

Teachers Web

October 19 2009, 10:26 AM 



Hi American Way,

I take your point . the Lauren post screams plant, and anyone using the site and understanding the subject would know the information is just not credible because it isn't, or couldn't be seen as physiologically accurate (if it had been on the first time doubtless NBC and lawyers would have been beating a path to her family's front door!

On the issue of the post - paddling in grades 9-12, this does seem to be an issue. The sentiments my friend expressed are pretty typical of those around in the paddling areas, and that's why I was interested in the statement that ( and I'm sorry my typing was even worse than usual on this bit) opting out in the middle class suburbs was largely girls in 9-12. Strange given the teachers insistence that this is where/when paddling works, especially as it doesn't interfere with grades , which are vital at that point.As you have pointed out in the past - teachers are parents too!

 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 19 2009, 12:58 PM 

Teachers are parents is true and I mentioned before I would opt my daughter out and not my son. Except when they were young as a parent I was more involved with disciplinary issues with both but with my son through his teen years as my wife was our daughter the spankings ended. The same couldn't be said of socio economic groups where corporal punishment was practice more often and often among African Americans. If a parent hasn't spanked at home it's understandable why the urban middle class (the districts that are banning it more and more).

There is another factor involved here and it is hard to confirm or reach the reasoable surmise stage which is that the parents are in denial and consider their daughters more angelic than their sons and would never need CP. I wouldn't be that naive but the sugar and spice thinking may indeed enter into the teachers mind and may minimally explain such a drastic difference in CP gender ratio.

Jenny I can hear the ice cracking. happy.gif In hemline battles mothers are more likely to enter as do student code of conduct. Male teachers shouldn't be expected to paddle a girl for wearing a miniskirt. I here the ice craching in the UK happy.gif a custom imported by Twiggy at the same time as long hair by the Beatles. My wife won the hemline battle (brooks less defiance as I am more aware than anyone). happy.gif And my father won the hair length battle and I wish I had that now happy.gif

If more parents are opting out because of gender considerations there has to be a way to accommodate their discomfort without fostering the notion peddled by Jeff Charles (Southern Education site whose motives are more suspect than any teacher) that signals to the girls that their teachers are randy for or more likely are immune and foster defiance to all male teachers-coaches-principal.

Now to the handbook if CP works how to minimize other disciplinary sanctions likely to be less effective chosen? First as previously mentioned a student override of the option after parental consultation will be included in the handbook but now for the dicey part. Should a customary opt out check box and a check box applicable to girls indicating that you want a women present when CP is administered?

I can hear the ice cracking again happy.gif but a girl old enough to accentuate her bottom to attract her peers shouldn't think the same of her teachers or as the song said backfield in motion I'm gonna have to penalize you. That didn't cross Nancy Guillens mind who saw it was no big deal by Steve Halter's gender.

 
 
Willy

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

October 20 2009, 4:14 AM 

I think Americans are very illogical, and confused, about this subject of CP. Apart from the fact that CP is allowed in some states while banned in others, I think it is ridiculous to talk about rules when each state, district or even school has its own rules about CP, how it is done and what merits it.
One could cite dozens of examples of these idiocinicracies.
Just to cite a few examples, some teachers can spank in class, others only in the corridor, others only by the principal. Some require a witness while others don't. Some can only be spanked by same sex teachers or principals while others don't. Some require the written permission of parents for pupils to be paddled while others don't. And one could go on with these glaring examples of confusion about CP in the US.

 
 
Lisa

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 17 2009, 1:34 PM 


How would you cure the pain after being hit with the cane

 
 

Not the Peckham Poet

An ode to the cane

December 18 2009, 8:31 AM 

Hi Lisa. Wow, that's almost poetic!

How would you cure the pain.
After being hit with the cane.
Dah di dah di dah di dah di dah.
Dah di dah di dah di dah di dah.


I think we need the Peckham Poet, if he's still around! happy.gif

 
 

Lisa- where's your commonsense?

December 18 2009, 8:47 AM 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools. December 17 2009, 1:34 PM




Dear Lisa, you said:

'How would you cure the pain after being hit with the cane.'

A punishment is meant to hurt the misbehaving offender.

As a girl [from India] who got caned on buttocks atleast 7/8 times quite severely, I can say that I knew inwardly how much I deserved every bit of it.

Aparna

 
 
Lurker_Lurker_Lurker

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 21 2009, 2:30 PM 

A woman I used to work with went to secondary school (boarding) in Ireland in the late 70s early 80s and were caned on her hands. She said it was a non-religious (not affiliated wiht a church?) school and she got it two times. It was quite a shock for her the first time. Since the first 10 years of her life she had lived in norway (irish mother norwegian father) were school cp has been banned since the 1920s.

 
 

Caned at School

December 24 2009, 11:35 AM 


I attended an all girl's private school in the 60's. Whilst the cane and slipper were not everyday occurrences, they were frequently used.

Any teacher was allowed to use the slipper for classroom offences and it was a quick short sharp shock.

The cane could only be given by your housemistress or the headmistress. A house caning was limited to a maximum of six strokes which could be split between hands and bottom, but more commonly they were on the backside.

If the offence was more serious then you would be sent to the headmistress. Her cane was weightier and much more painful.

The school also used an order marks system for punishments. If you exceeded the maximum in one term then you were sent to your housemistress for punishment.All order marks were cancelled at the end of term so we all started with a clean sheet the next term.

 
 
R.G. Tracker

Re: Caned at School

December 24 2009, 1:00 PM 

It's wonderful to have Dot contributing to our Happy Circle community again, after all this time!

 
 

Welcome

December 24 2009, 2:00 PM 

Hi Dot,

I didn't know you used to post here, or is R.G.Tracker mistaken? Either way, I bid you welcome to this estimable forum.

Jenny.


 
 
R.G. Tracker

Re: Welcome

December 24 2009, 2:25 PM 


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 24 2009, 10:09 PM 

Hi Jenny. You must not underestimate the capabilities of Research Assistant 2! I myself did that, in a post which is linked to the issue I wish to raise with you, but since then I have come to realise that Research Assistant 2 knows everything about this estimable Forum and virtually everything about anywhere else that SCP is discussed on the web!

And so to the main business of this post. In your message to Dot you say:

Either way, I bid you welcome to this estimable forum.

I have noted you using the term 'estimable forum' before and I am afraid that I cannot allow this misuse to continue! The aforesaid word combination comprising a tribute to this Forum is the intellectual property of Another_Lurker, who devised it and first used it here in this post, one of his first posts, when he was still using the pseudonym 'A Lurker'. The term was used again here when Another_Lurker, having been alerted to the fact that there had previously been another A Lurker by Research Assistant 2, changed his name.

The term has been used frequently by Another_Lurker since that time, and he is quite happy for other contributors to use it. American Way, in particular, has frequently done so. BUT, and this is a very important point of which I also had to remind American Way, as of this post on 31st July 2008 it MUST be written:

estimable Forum

That is to say with an upper case 'F'. Another_Lurker instituted this change as a further tribute to the Forum which has given him so much pleasure. He has followed this convention himself since then, apart from a couple of lapses caused by the stress of a dispute with another contributor, and he requests and expects that others borrowing the term will do likewise. I do hope that you will take note of this in future! happy.gif

 
 

Mistaken Identity

December 24 2009, 10:44 PM 

Thank you for the warm welcome.

There must be another Dot around this forum as much as I admire them I cannot say they are mine.

Anything that I write on this subject or any other are based solely on my experiences at school.

I will post more after the holidays.

Dorothy

 
 

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 25 2009, 12:20 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker

Happy Xmas! (or Happy 25th December if you don't celebrate Xmas wink.gif )

Hi Jenny. You must not underestimate the capabilities of Research Assistant 2! I myself did that, in a post which is linked to the issue I wish to raise with you, but since then I have come to realise that Research Assistant 2 knows everything about this estimable Forum and virtually everything about anywhere else that SCP is discussed on the web!

I have reason to believe that, on this one never to be repeated occasion, the infallible Research Assistant 2 has been deceived.

I have noted you using the term 'estimable forum' before and I am afraid that I cannot allow this misuse to continue! The aforesaid word combination comprising a tribute to this Forum is the intellectual property of Another_Lurker, who devised it and first used it here in this post, one of his first posts, when he was still using the pseudonym 'A Lurker'. The term was used again here when Another_Lurker, having been alerted to the fact that there had previously been another A Lurker by Research Assistant 2, changed his name.

I offer my most humble apologies for misusing that term. I hope, in the spirit of the season, (and ****** ***** *** ********) you can find it in your heart to forgive me. I cannot remember if I've used the term before, I didn't think I had but your word is good enough for me. It is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I used that term in honour of your good self.

Another_Lurker instituted this change as a further tribute to the Forum which has given him so much pleasure. He has followed this convention himself since then, apart from a couple of lapses caused by the stress of a dispute with another contributor, and he requests and expects that others borrowing the term will do likewise. I do hope that you will take note of this in future! happy.gif

I thank you for your generosity in permitting others to use that phrase, subject only to the condition that it be spelled "estimable Forum" (that is, with a capital 'F'). I undertake to adhere to that requirement in future.




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 25 2009, 2:22 AM 

Hi Jenny. A very happy Xmas to you too! Despite being somewhat sceptical about the real meaning of Christmas for most people now (I'll exempt young children and practising Christians) which you might have inferred from my previous post on the subject, I'm actually a traditionalist at heart and I should really be tucked up in bed by now with my biggest walking sock hung up ready for Santa. But I have committed a dreadful faux pas! Not only have I failed to celebrate the 100th post in this thread in the customary fashion, I actually made the 100th post without even noticing that the total had been reached! The fact that that post was humorous in nature will scarcely console my devoted fans who have come to expect a certain garishness on these occasions. I am therefore scouring Google images for some suitable material, so far without success.

You say:

I have reason to believe that, on this one never to be repeated occasion, the infallible Research Assistant 2 has been deceived.

You mean that it isn't the same Dot! And I was so looking forward to more of those lesbianating stories! sad.gif Or is the indefatigable (and as you note, infallible) Research Assistant 2 mistaken about Judy/Jenny?

Mind you, mistakes seem to be the order of the day here, I've just noticed that I'm mixing up R. G. Tracker and Research Assistant 2! My very sincere apologies to both those worthies. I blame it on the considerable quantity of M&S Cherry Liqueurs I've consumed tonight!

You also say:

I hope, in the spirit of the season, (and ****** ***** *** ********) you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

Never mind the spirit of the season, bring on the ****** ***** *** ********! happy.gif

And finally you say:

I thank you for your generosity in permitting others to use that phrase, subject only to the condition that it be spelled "estimable Forum" (that is, with a capital 'F'). I undertake to adhere to that requirement in future.

I am relieved to note your final sentence and I am happy to confirm that neither CP nor lines such as those imposed by the heartless and despotic happy.gif Mr Turing are appropriate in this case. wink.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 25 2009, 6:16 AM 

Many of our readers and contributors attended girls' schools where corporal punishment was used. Even more imagine that they did. This thread represents the experiences of both categories and dates from the early days of this estimable Forum. Everyone should read the first two posts to get a feel for the razor sharp repartee which was characteristic of those early days. Sadly the lady responsible for the second post has not graced these pages for some time now.

For those who did attend, or imagine they attended, girls' schools where the discipline was not confined to lines and detentions I hope this little tribute to the thread having passed its 100th post will bring back some happy memories and, when they recall the consequences of misbehavior, perhaps some not so happy ones!
gscp_01

gscp_02

gscp_03

gscp_04

gscp_05


 
 

Photos

December 25 2009, 11:49 AM 


Absolutely brilliant photos. May I enquire where they came from.

They have brought back many happy and unhappy memories for me and are the most realistic I have ever seen.

 
 

Order Marks

December 25 2009, 12:59 PM 


One of the frequent punishments at my school was the awarding of order marks. These could be imposed as a penalty in their own right or in addition to any other punishment such as lines or the writing of an essay.

Each form had its own classroom and there was a board on the wall with the name of each girl and the number of order marks she had received. You were allowed to accumulate 12 in any one term. If you reached or exceeded that number, your name would be "published" i.e. read out the next morning at assembly and be put on the punishment list.

The effect was that you reported to your housemistress after prep that evening to receive the cane. For first time offenders it would normally be one stroke but repeat offences merited up to six. If you were stupid enough to be "published" three times in any one term, a visit to the head was in order.

Does anyone here have experience of a similar system of punishment?

Dorothy

 
 

Order Marks

December 25 2009, 9:00 PM 

No but I have to say I believe the system you describe to be very reasonable; I might have said previously that I didn't regard order marks as much of a punishment in themselves but if they are cumulative such that a girl realises that she can't simply continue in regular unacceptable behaviour without encountering the cane at some point they can become effective; she also can't claim that the school was using CP in an uncontrolled way as she had plenty of opportunity to avoid the cane completely before getting to that point.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Photos

December 25 2009, 11:08 PM 

Hi Dorothy. Another_Lurker won't usually comment on the source of photographs, but he doesn't wish to appear uncivil to a lady, especially one who is an acquaintance of Jenny! happy.gif

Exceptionally therefore he will say that three of them are from a magazine library and may be genuine and two are from films, one of which had to be modified to meet the high standards of this family Forum.

 
 
Worldwide Traveller

More details please.

December 26 2009, 10:40 AM 

I think the question has to be asked Dorothy.

Were the canings given on the hand or the bottom?

 
 

Order Marks

December 26 2009, 11:43 AM 


Hand or bottom was at the whim of the housemistress. Normally, for the first timers, one stroke on the hand was given. My housemistress never really favoured hand canings and tended to administer on the bottom as a matter of course, although I once had one on each and two on the bottom. This was from another mistress at a time my housemistress was unwell.

I certainly think hand canings carry a greater danger of injury and now if I am called upon to punish the hands I use a tawse rather than a cane.

Unlike Jenny, we did not have the protection of our skirts to soften the blows.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Order Marks

December 26 2009, 9:56 PM 

Hi Dorothy. You said above:

Unlike Jenny, we did not have the protection of our skirts to soften the blows.

There are a great many earnest seekers after truth frequenting this estimable Forum who will have been thrown into a fervour of speculation by your statement above. At this time of the year many of them will also have been consuming alcohol and suffering the stresses of family gatherings. In their heightened state of emotion the potential for disaster in the home or on the roads is enormous and something that I am sure you will appreciate is best avoided. May I therefore ask you please for immediate clarification. Do you mean à la the last of the photographs above before or after the addition of the nether garment in Photoshop? happy.gif

And you also say:

I certainly think hand canings carry a greater danger of injury and now if I am called upon to punish the hands I use a tawse rather than a cane.

Hmmm, the use of the words 'called upon' suggests something more than the domestic chastisement of a child, though I doubt very strongly that using a tawse for that would escape the attention of the law anyway. It certainly isn't legal in any UK educational establishment and I can't imagine that there is much call for punishment on the hands in the 'adult' scene. I assume therefore that the punishments you are 'called upon' to administer take place outwith the UK. Would you care to say where and in what context please?

 
 

hand punishments

December 27 2009, 12:28 PM 


I certainly do not wish to be the cause of any anxiety or stress.

Punishments were given accross the knickers very much as in the photo as retouched. Jenny went to a mixed school as we know and her canings were carrried out in public on some occassions and by her headmaster. Therefore, I would certainly deem it appropriate that she was afforded the protection of her skirt. A visit to my headmistress for a more severe caning would entail that the sides of the knickers were pulled up into the crease ensuring more of the target area was totally unprotected.

Why have you assumed that hand punishments play no part in the adult disciplinary scene? That is, in my experience. completely wrong.

I am in the U.K. for your information.

As I am new here I want to be careful in sticking to the rules and keeping my posts on the topic of the forum. To this end, the hand punishments fall outside the topic and I am unsure if the comments I can make are properly to be made here or on another forum.

Guidance please!

Dorothy

 
 
Research Assistant 2

Guidance

December 27 2009, 1:04 PM 

Dot,

Hand punishments, bum punishments, knickers pulled up into the crease, the Bench...

Keep posting!

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 27 2009, 7:05 PM 

There do seem to've been a few sadistic cows around, as Ketta's Headmistress was another skirt-lifter for caning, if I remember.

Can't understand, though, why it was ever thought a skirt would protect, even the infamous Bacons' kilt.

The simple answer, as experienced by 3 girls I knew at age 15-17, was to fold from the pleats forward, so that all "excess" material was neatly tucked under the girl's tummy as she bent over the desk. Miss was thus presented(or even Sir was) with a skirt now taut across the bum.

And, just for the record, two of those girls were caned over thick winter-weight school skirts, slip, tights and knickers, in one case gym knickers as well I recollect from their accounts. One got 3, the other 4.

Both were not ashamed to admit they were bawling their eyes out it still hurt so much.

The third girl DID have the added protection of a thick kilt as part of the uniform on top of the usual underwear. But she finished up bawling HER eyes out after 3 strokes out of 6. Her bad luck was to get it not from the Headmaster, but the Deputy Headmistress, who wasn't known as the Swish-Curtain for nothing!


Steve




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: hand punishments

December 27 2009, 10:17 PM 

Thank you Dorothy for such a very prompt reply. I am sure that you have thereby substantially contributed to reducing domestic discord and motoring chaos over the remainder of the holiday season.

You say:

Punishments were given across the knickers very much as in the photo as retouched.

I am very relieved to hear that only the post-retouch mode was involved. Initially I feared the worst! I infer from your reply that the 'over the desk' posture was involved as well. I have to say that to me this has always seemed aesthetically preferable to the 'bend over' method employed at Jenny's school. So much more comfortable for the recipient too I suspect, at least as regards staying in position! happy.gif

You ask me:

Why have you assumed that hand punishments play no part in the adult disciplinary scene? That is, in my experience, completely wrong.

Please forgive my ignorance. My knowledge of the 'adult disciplinary scene' is extremely limited and could readily be entirely displayed in a very small window using a very large font size. That is why I said 'imagine' rather than 'assume' in the context of the hand punishment. Assumptions require at least some data to work on, imaginings don't.

You also said:

As I am new here I want to be careful in sticking to the rules and keeping my posts on the topic of the forum.

I am relieved that a senior member of this estimable Forum's excellent Management Team has given you exactly the advice I would have liked to issue had I been qualified to do so. If you had succeeded in your objective as set out above you'd have been in a very small minority! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 27 2009, 10:22 PM 

Hand Punishments. Now you're getting into my area of interests. wink.gif Maybe for the new comer I should post for the zillionth time those poor girls whose palms were caned or whether they were just hamming it up.

 
 
Research Assistant 2

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

January 19 2010, 6:16 PM 

Thank you, Peter, for your contributions. It may be unwise to display them on the Forum as the email address of your company would be visible. It is not necessary to include an email address when writing in.

Who is Sarah?

 
 
For kyte,b

The head

November 25 2010, 12:57 AM 

A richly deserved whacking for belinda. Should have had the full 6 of the best

 
 
Nathan

Cane on girls

November 26 2010, 12:19 AM 

I personally never witnessed a girl receiving the cane where I went to school and I didn't attend a girl's school for obvious reasons however I was caned by my headmistress in primary school and when I was told to stand outside her office there was a girl waiting to see the headmistress. She was called in and I could hear the girl receiving the cane. When she came out and stood next to me her skirt was slightly up at the back and had a couple of creases where it looked as though it had been folded a couple of times underneath. I only noticed her skirt because I had started to notice girls at the latter half of primary school. My teacher had a boy-girl seating arrangement and I was lucky enough to have a Rebecca Clayton sitting next to me. What I found attractive about her was that she had these cute small white hairs on her arms that made my heart pound. That's about all I can say.

I did however see several girls caned across their school knickers at www....

 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

December 21 2011, 7:19 PM 

How old is too old for spanking? This mother says if she needs a step ladder she will still spank her daughter. She was a teen mother and at times as her hands full handling her twelve-year-old. From school stats that seems to be the age where paddling occur frequently.

CLICK

CLICK


 
 

Hi all

January 14 2012, 9:06 PM 

I'm from Romania. I went to school between 1982 and 1994. From 1982 to 1986 - primary school, from 1986 to 1990 - school and from 1990 to 1994 - high school. The teachers and the headmaster used the cane, from primary to high school, although it wasn't really an english type of cane, it was more a stick or a wooden ruler sometime. It usually happened in the classroom, on the palms of the hands. But on some ocasions pupils were "rewarded" with a visit to the headmaster's office, where the caning was on the bum too.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

January 16 2012, 6:22 AM 

Hi Ramona,

May I please say a personal welcome to the Forum and congratulate you on your excellent English. I only wish that my Romanian was even 1% as good!

I note that your schooling spanned the end of the Soviet era. I am rather surprised that your schools used corporal punishment as I had been under the impression (obviously mistaken) that school corporal punishment was abolished in all the Countries of the Soviet block. Do you by chance know if the punishments you received were actually contrary to regulations? Does corporal punishment continue in schools now that you are in the European Union, and if not do you know when it ceased?

How frequent was corporal punishment in the various schools please? Were they mixed schools, and if so were boys punished this way more often than girls? Did the use of corporal punishment gradually diminish in High School as pupils got older? How did you yourself fare as regards corporal punishment? Did you receive it on the hand in class, if so for what sort of things, if you can recall?

Were you ever naughty enough (or thought by your teachers to have been naughty enough) to be sent to be dealt with by the Headmaster by, as you put it, being caning on the bum. If so what was the offence and how many strokes were you given? Was there a lady teacher present as a witness? Some of our contributors here, including at least one regular lady contributor who had experience of being caned on the hand and on the bum, consider that being caned on the hand is more painful than on the bum. If you experienced both, what is your opinion?

Oh dear, so many questions, my apologies! But as you've posted here I assume that you have at least some interest in the subject of school corporal punishment, and people with that interest are usually prepared to discuss their own experiences. As a sample of some of the discussions by people in the past, you might find this thread interesting. A number of people have described their experience of school CP in various countries, though you have to go down a little way from the start.

 
 
American Way

Birching of school girls in early America.

January 19 2012, 9:26 PM 

Misguided Notions: The Birth, Death, and Resurrection of Publicly Funded Education in America By Garrett Williams 2011.

CLICK

CLICK

 
 

no one ever did anything bad enough to deserve this sort of punishment

March 24 2012, 6:27 AM 

I have read this read with interest and obviously some of the people posting are getting a thrill out of it and that is an unavoidable side effect of discussing this problem, but discuss it we must.
No one and especially not a child deserves to be treated like this and it is shocking to read people saying that they deserved it or that it did them good.Or even worse that advocate this treatment for their own children.
I am currently writing a novel about physical abuse in a convent school which tries to understand why the Nun who is the main character is a sexual sadist and why the children and their parents put up with her bahaviour.
Anyone interested in knowing more can email me.
Derek

 
 
American Way

19th Century Whittier Scandal

April 14 2012, 5:08 PM 

The Anatomy of an 1896 Trial at Whittier College. It unveils the attitude prevalent for or against corporal punishment involving girls.

CLICK

CLICK

CLICK




 
 
KK

Re: 19th Century Whittier Scandal

April 14 2012, 8:37 PM 

Excerpt from second news report above:

... the legal fight was opened by the district attorney calling for Grace Maroney. This is the girl against whose person the lady officers on trial are charged with having commited "battery." Upon coming forward to take her seat upon the witness stand the girl, in general outline and feature, was a fair presentment of the average "tough" girl. Not but that her features were pleasing and her dress tidy and neat; but the tangle of raven hair, the shifting dark eye and the too mature form for a young girl betokened an indifferent up-bringing. In giving her testimony she spoke in an apparently straightforward manner and did not strive to conceal any little peccadilloes of her own when asked about them.



Does this description not bring to mind a certain person who posts to this forum?

They do not report the news like they used to. It is amazing how much you can tell from a person's appearance. No wonder there was difficulty finding suitable jurors.

 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

April 14 2012, 11:17 PM 

November 19th earlier story about Whittier incident. It is interesting that these articles are modest so avoid the mention of bathing suits areas. I wonder if the strap was soaked in salt or fresh water? Add salt to the wound.

CLICK


 
 

Another_Lurker

Judging by appearances!

April 15 2012, 12:34 AM 

Hi KK,

Above you quote a section of text from an old US local newspaper describing an inmate of a female reformatory and say of it:

Does this description not bring to mind a certain person who posts to this forum?

Well I thought I knew this estimable Forum and its regular 'inmates' reasonably well, but you've sure as heck got me puzzled. Elucidation please!

You also said:

It is amazing how much you can tell from a person's appearance.

I disagree. Over the course of a reasonably long life I have come to the conclusion that you can tell nothing from a person's appearance. In the vast majority of cases what you see is what the person concerned wishes you to see, no more, no less. You need to have accurate information on a great many more things than appearance to form a correct opinion about someone.



 
 

Another_Lurker

Of bathing suit areas and straps and taps.

April 15 2012, 2:11 AM 

Hi American Way,

You say above of the local newspaper descriptions of whippings at the Whittier Girls' Reformatory:

It is interesting that these articles are modest so avoid the mention of bathing suits areas.

Hmm, either we're not reading the same reports or we differ as to what constitutes 'bathing suit areas'. I'd have said the reports were pretty specific as to where and how the 'whippings' were performed, both as regards the person of the unfortunate girl whipped and the physical location within the reformatory site!

You also asked:

I wonder if the strap was soaked in salt or fresh water?

The third of your April 14 2012, 5:08 PM links states that 'after a whipping the strap was placed under the hydrant and the water permitted to drip on it in order that it might be in readiness for the next girl trotted out for punishment'. It is also stated in your second link in that post that as Grace Maroney was taken through Mrs Wilson's room en route to her whipping she 'there saw the leather strap, having its ends cut into thongs and attached to a wooden handle, lying soaking in the water'.

We may therefore reasonably assume that the hydrant (besides its modern usage, hydrant is an old term for tap) under which the strap was soaked was in Mrs Wilson's room, which was over the kitchen in the Girls' Reformatory main building. It would be unlikely that a tap in domestic premises would dispense salt water. As it is clearly stated that the soaking was performed by dripping water onto the strap rather than immersing it in liquid in a container we may logically assume that it was soaked in fresh water.

Further there would be little point in incorporating salt unless the whipping was intended to cut the skin, whereupon salt would act as a crude antiseptic agent whilst increasing the pain of the punishment by its stinging effect in the wounds. None of the reports of the whippings mention skin being broken, merely that bruising was produced.

 
 
American Way

Leather Strapped Soaked in Beer

April 15 2012, 8:13 AM 

In many reports of corporal punishment, the reporter mentions the "back" one receive it publicly from a whipping post or the knout in a judicial context to avoid the use of the word "bottom" even avoided in the over the knee context. These girls received a maternal spanking? Yes, if their mother was Joan Crawford. The quivering flesh sounds like the bounce of the fleshy part of their anatomy but not necessarily.

Hilariously, the OCR text copy and paste read beer instead of been. Was the the third defendant attired in thongs or wearing them?

"The third defendant, armed with a leathern strap, the end of which had beer, cm in thongs and soaked in water, proceeded to hit the girl on the bare tlej-h fifteen times, and each time adding to the tor ture by drawing the strap slowly away from the quivering flesh."

CLICK


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Leather Strapped Soaked in Beer

April 15 2012, 12:44 PM 

Hi American Way,

I appreciate a good argument just as much as the next man. However, while I can think of no other reason why you would adopt your present stance on the Whittier whippings, I think you have chosen a poor case to pursue! happy.gif

As an experienced researcher you are well aware of the principle that when dealing with documents if possible always go to the original. If you do this in the case of the link in your April 15 2012, 8:13 AM post above the garbled snippet you quote is absolutely crystal clear, and reads:

The third defendant, armed with a leathern strap, the end of which had been cut in thongs and soaked in water, proceeded to hit the girl on the bare flesh fifteen times, and each time adding to the torture by drawing the strap slowly away from the quivering flesh.

OCR is an imprecise tool, except in the hands of our very esteemed fellow contributor KK who is expert in its use. Automated OCR, which produced the mangled snippet you quote, is particularly unreliable. You say:

In many reports of corporal punishment, the reporter mentions the "back" one receive it publicly from a whipping post or the knout in a judicial context to avoid the use of the word "bottom" even avoided in the over the knee context.

By the standards of the time I see absolutely no attempt by the authors of the newspaper reports to be unnecessarily prim or precious about the fate of Grace Maroney and presumably the other girls similarly punished. On the contrary, to some degree they positively gorged themselves on the prurient detail! From the various links you have given there can be no confusion about how Grace's initial two consecutive whippings were carried out:

.... taken into a room then stripped of all but the garments next to her body. Being thrown face downward upon the floor one of the defendants sat upon her shoulders while another secured her legs and feet

She was stripped to her underwear and held stretched face down on the floor.

.... while Miss Germain was holding her down by her hands and Mrs. Henderson by the feet, her clothing was unfastened and raised and Mrs. Wilson applied the strap to the naked flesh.

While she was held stretched face down on the floor whatever undergarments young ladies wore in 1896 were unfastened and adjusted as necessary to expose her back and the strap was then applied to bare flesh.

"You say it was a minute between the blows?"

"It was either a minute or a second; just time to soak the strap."

She was made to experience the full effects of each stroke before the next one was administered, and she thought the strap was being re-wetted between the blows.

.... and each time adding to the torture by drawing the strap slowly away from the quivering flesh.

The strap was left lying after each stroke then drawn slowly over her bare skin before being raised for the next stroke. Never having been punished with a strap on the bare, or indeed in any other mode, I have no idea if this technique does in fact add to the pain. I am fairly sure though that it would play unpleasant tricks with the victim's mind.

.... her body was one mass of bruises all down the back to below the knees.

The target area wasn't confined to her bottom, strokes fell on her back, and the backs of her thighs and calves as well.

H. A. Smith, the school physician, was the next witness. ..... he examined Grace Maroney and found several bruises. She complained of a pain in the right hip, ....... Next day he saw her again, ..... the discolourations had, in a large measure, changed from blue to yellow. ...... in his opinion the bruises arose from a "good thrashing". .... he had advised Mrs. Threlkeld that the girl was shamming somewhat.

The doctor confirmed the bruising, which was fading fairly quickly, and he thought Grace was exaggerating the effects of her punishment somewhat. We may also possibly conclude that while administering the strap Mrs Wilson stood on Grace's left. The majority of the blows were probably aimed at the bottom even if the aim wasn't good, and the tip of the strap would tend to 'wrap' on the right hip, hence the pain complained of in that area.

There we are, just as I said, no evasion of the issue, a clear account of what happened culled from the various links you have given. As you say, this was certainly not, as you put it, 'a maternal spanking'.

 
 
American Way

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

April 15 2012, 2:30 PM 

The avoidance of the word buttocks (back to knees) or bottom were due to modesty IMHO. The quivering flesh sounds like the Victorian novels doesn't it? As an experience researcher I drew attention to beer to highlight the inaccuracy as most of our sophisticated readers of this estimable Forum. You really do enjoy a punch up and and provoking Renee. I think you would have changed your mind in a hurry if you had Sister Mary Godzilla outside of virtual reality and in real time and place. My ascribing that moniker (Godzilla) and RSM initials at the end of their end of the names as "really small minds" did not engendered their wrath and not appeal to their humor.

As far as those gorgeous nuns of the exceptional milestone post I think they would be for me. The geometry teacher was a gorgeous nun and revealed more of herself because of Vatican II permissiveness in 1966. She massaged my neck on more than once as I mentioned previously. She became an advocate for the poor and successfully ran for office after she jumped over the wall. If I sued her for sexual harassment it would be beyond the statues of limitations I was only fifteen and she was just six years older at a time I could enjoy multitasking my geometry compass. I neither encouraged her nor discourage her from having a career as a masseuse.

Why was I the target of the sisters wrath? Good question. With a full classroom they had to teach the slowest child before they could move on. A classmate had a distinct memory of my hushing a sister once when I was engrossed in a book several chapters ahead. I was not to be dummy down as A_L must know by now. Sometimes I have to disabuse you of the notion that I am the village idiot. I believe it is due to a lack of writing skills and because differences are not incremental. On many occasions I have told you that you take undue delight on pouncing upon me. You once said across the pond but in our case it should be a lake. Lake Superior.


 
 
KK

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

April 16 2012, 6:28 AM 

Another_Lurker,

Sorry I disconcerted you.

Does this description not bring to mind a certain person who posts to this forum? Think stroppy rather than tangled raven hair.


It is amazing how much you can tell from a person's appearance. I was being sarcastic. I agree with you that a person's appearance tells very little except, perhaps, about the viewer's prejudices.



 
 

Another_Lurker

Stroppy! Shurly shome mistake!

April 17 2012, 12:30 AM 

Hi KK,

Thank you for the clarification. But possibly some misunderstanding still! Can there be anyone stroppy contributing to this estimable Forum? No, surely not! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

As regards appearance, I used to be a great believer in it as an indicator of character. But then I began to note that when assistance is needed quite frequently it is the guy with the shaved head, tatoos and earring who comes to the rescue, while the man in the smart suit and well-polished shoes looks the other way and passes by on the other side. So I started to judge people by what I find rather than what I see!

What's that? Did I hear someone ask what has this to do with corporal punishment in girls' schools? Absolutely nothing whatsoever. If you want that sort of smut go somewhere else! Or alternatively why not peruse this excellent thread CP of schoolgirls from the early days of this estimable Forum? If that doesn't cure you of asking silly questions nothing will! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 
Cyril Perera

corporal punishment in girls schools

April 27 2012, 6:45 PM 

Dear girl,

You said you were given six of the best by Headmistress in front of the assembly. Does it mean that you are canned on your bottoms? On your skirts? or on your knickers with skirt lifted? Or worse than that?

 
 

Girls caned in UK schools

July 3 2012, 12:03 AM 

Hi,

Yes I received 3 canings in total.The first time was 3 strokes across my gym knickers for messing about in PE class.The other 2 times were across my skirt with me having tights and knickers underneath.They were 6 of the best given by the Headmistress and very painful.The 2nd was for messing about in swimming class and the last was for smoking.I received these canings when i was 13,14 and 16 all in the privacy of the Heads study with no-one else there.

Carly

 
 
American Way

The Other Whittier Scandal Mrs William H Green

August 23 2012, 3:39 AM 

I went back for a second dig and look at what I just unearthed. Flog the girls but love the boy. sad.gifsad.gifsad.gif Of course some boys would prefer to be flogged by a girl. happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

1896 Whittier Corporal Punishment Scandal

Previously noted. April 14 2012 at 5:08 PM

CLICK

1896 Above. Mrs Ellen J Wilson.

1897 Below. Mrs William H Green

A Romance From The Whittier School. Instructor Mrs Ellen J Wilson and Pupil William H Green.

CLICK

Those irresistible girls contemporaries. Take your choice guys. wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

CLICK

Richard M Nixon and Whittier California.

Nixon graduated summa cum laude from Whittier College in 1934

http://www.whittier.edu/pr/rls.Nixon.html

1952.

CLICK

 
 

Another_Lurker

Those Whittier, California, 'Educational' Institutions!

August 23 2012, 8:34 PM 

Hi American Way,

I think that it may be helpful to our many thousands of readers to note that the Whittier Reform School, later known as the Fred C. Nelles Youth Correctional Facility, which features in the first three links of your August 23 2012, 3:39 AM post above is NOT the same establishment as Whittier College from which President Richard Nixon graduated in 1934 (your fourth link).

 
 
KK

Re: corporal punishment in girls schools.

August 23 2012, 8:55 PM 

EAL,

I am sure you are right about the schools. Nixon showed little sign of having been reformed.

 
 
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