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School Corporal Punishment in Films

April 28 2003 at 6:35 PM
Roger 

 
A useful addition to the archives would be a catalogue of mainstream cinema films which feature school corporal punishment.

‘The Guinea Pig’ from 1948, starring the twenty-five year old Dickie as a schoolboy, has been mentioned in another thread.

Does anyone know of others?

 
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Karen

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

April 28 2003, 7:25 PM 

In ‘Young Winston’ (1972) the marks from a caning on the Churchill bum by his headmaster are shown in the uncensored version. I cannot remember if the actual beating is seen.

The film was directed by dear, dear Dickie.

 
 
Gillian

Re: Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

April 28 2003, 9:54 PM 

In ‘Melody’ a.k.a. ‘S.W.A.L.K.’ (1971) two boys are slippered by their headmaster.

‘The Happy Valley’ (1989) has some memorable F/f. I think this could qualify as ‘school corporal punishment’, for the ‘F’ is the governess/tutor of the ‘f’.

 
 
Peter

Re: Re: Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

April 28 2003, 11:12 PM 

The brutal – ‘If’ made in the late sixties and

The comic - ‘Bottoms Up!’ starring Jimmy Edwards in 1960.

 
 
Brian

Re: Re: Re: Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

April 29 2003, 7:34 AM 

F/f in a school environment is rare. The Spanking Facts and Research site has
‘Brides of Christ’ (Australia 1985)

 
 
C. Nickel

"Brides of Christ"

April 29 2003, 8:10 AM 



See the video clip at: http://www.impress4u.com/videos/classics/Default.htm

(it's on the bottom left of the page)

 
 
Roger

Re: "Brides of Christ"

April 29 2003, 7:05 PM 

I trust that those who have criticised C. Nickel will now feel ashamed.

C. Nickel is a great asset to this forum and taking the trouble to provide a link to a rare piece of F/f fladge is just one of the many kindnesses he/she has shown to members.

 
 
squirrel

young winston

April 30 2003, 9:44 PM 

You see the school assembled in the library and individual boys called into an adjoining room to be caned on the bare bottom. The one caning of which the viewer gets a glimpse is not in fact the Churchill one but the previous boy. You see him bending over with his trousers down and then the door is closed just as the cane is placed across his buttocks.
The scene is based on Churchill's account in "My Early Life" of his prep school, not named in the book but in fact St George's, Ascot. The headmaster, played in the film by Robert Hardy, was the Rev. Herbert Sneyd-Kynnersley and in real life the instrument used was the birch. Churchill described boys being "flogged until they bled freely". Virginia Woolf's biography of Roger Fry, who was at the school shortly before Churchill (c.1880), gives a much more explicit and rather disgusting account, quoted in Ian Gibson's silly book "The English Vice". From the lines given to Robert Hardy to speak, one deduces that the scriptwriters for the film drew substantially on the Roger Fry account. All in all, I think we can say that Rev. Sneyd-Kynnersley was the sort of headmaster who gave corporal punishment a bad name.

 
 
squirrel

british films

April 30 2003, 9:49 PM 

There was also a film called "Spare the Rod" (1961) starring Max Bygraves as a teacher in a rough East End of London school. This film never seems to be on the telly and consequently I've never seen it.

 
 
Karen

Re: british films

April 30 2003, 10:11 PM 

Thank you, Squirrel, for supplying the information about the Churchill film that I did not have.

It is always good to hear from you. Your messages make a refreshing change from the nonsense that we are usually subjected to.

Made a year after the Max Bygraves film, is ‘Term of Trial’ in which dear, dear Larry canes a boy on the hand.

 
 
BobbyK

Re: Re: british films

May 2 2003, 4:27 PM 

Not cinema but TV, I recall "The School Play" by Frederic Raphael shown some 20 years ago. It's one of the genre where adult actors play children and features a very formal public school thrashing carried out by a prefect (played by a middle-aged actor - Jeremy Kemp?) on a "boy" (played by an actor in his 20s).

The film "Lady Jane" is cited as a good example of F/f CP with the young Lady Jane Grey (H Bonham-Carter) being birched by her mother. I haven't seen it though.

"Happy Valley" also has a scene of F/f hand caning in a school setting. There's also an extremely unpleasant and graphic scene where the much-punished heroine is assaulted with a whip by her father.

 
 
Sandra

School CP On Television

May 2 2003, 7:40 PM 

I have seen Spare the Rod on television several times, although probably not in the past 30 years. It might pop up on one the dedicated film channels, so it is worth keeping an eye out.
Back in the days of grainy black and white, early 1960’s,TV I remember an episode of Dr Finlay’s Casebook, (ask your Grandparents), where the Doctor visited a girls boarding school and entered a classroom where the school mistress was giving a girl the tawse on her hands. The series was set in Scotland. I also remember a BBC adaptation of Jane Eyre from the same time where the story opened with Jane being caned on her hands at school by Mr Brocklebank, rather than sticking to Charlotte Bronte’s original.
More recently in the 1980’s Dennis Potters Singing Detective had a very severe cane-wielding schoolmistress in it. I do not remember any of the pupils being caned, but she walked around the class, cane in hand. From the same period I recall a play where adults played all the children’s parts, I think Colin Welland played one of the roles, and several of the boys and one of the girls were caned at school.
From the late 1970’s there was the famous Grange Hill caning. Headmistress Mrs McCluskey, (Bridget the Midget) caned Cathy Hargreaves, on her hand, for playing truant.
Not quite school CP but in an episode of the truly awful Nanny series, set in the 19030’s staring Wendy Craig, she worked as Nanny in a house where the Governess regularly caned the older girls on their hands. Wendy, of course, came to the rescue and drove her out.
Another school CP classic that pops up on TV every now and then is the film Kess, where the Headmaster canes a group of boys.

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: School CP On Television

May 2 2003, 7:59 PM 

"From the same period I recall a play where adults played all the children’s parts, I think Colin Welland played one of the roles."

That would be 'Blue Remembered Hills' by the late - and very very great - Dennis Potter.

First broadcast on 30 January 1979 on BBC1, repeated on 30 May 1980 on BBC1 and on 19 May 1991 on Channel 4, it won the 1980 BAFTA TV Award for Best Single Play.

Wonderful.

Absolutely wonderful.

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

May 2 2003, 8:16 PM 

1982 British film 'The Wall' shows state school beatings. Directed by Alan Parker, it includes the memorable anti-authority anthem 'We don't want no education.' The regimented ranks of automaton-like pupils and graphic school beatings depicted would appear to justify the song's repeated call for teachers to 'leave those kids alone'.

1971 British film 'Melody' shows two schoolboys slippered by the headmaster. It featuring Mark Lester and Jack Wild (who had come to fame together in the Oscar winning musical, 'Oliver') as two London schoolboys. They are each given six of the best with the slipper by the genial tea drinking headmaster for various failings in their schoolwork and chirpy Jack Wild sails through the ordeal with aplomb, having carefully padded his backside beforehand. However, young Mark Lester's attempt to trick the head in the same fashion is discovered, and once the padding has been removed he is given six hard whacks, much to his consternation.

1938 British film 'Housemaster' is set in a public school and features a caning scene right at the beginning when the housemaster of the title, played by Otto Kruger, is seen chastising a pupil. The film is based upon the novel by Ian Hay, first published in 1936.

1969 British film 'Kes' shows a group of boys receiving hand canings. The film includes scenes set in a tough city comprehensive school in the north of England. A group of boys are caned on both hands for smoking. The line-up includes an innocent first-former who has been sent to the headmaster with a message and is forced by the older boys to secrete their contraband cigarettes and matches in his trouser pockets. When all the assembled boys are told to empty their pockets the pathetic junior, who is too shy to speak up to the overbearing headmaster, is deemed to be an illicit smoker and is caned along with the guilty pupils - much to his distress.

1942 film 'A Yank at Eton' shows Mickey Rooney receiving a prefect's tanning. He plays a rebellious all-American kid who is sent to Eton College for an English public school education. To begin with, Mickey greatly dislikes the famous school, with its peculiar uniforms, arrogant prefects and tedious fagging. Early on in the movie, a practical joke which misfires results in a caning from senior boy Peter Lawford.

 
 
squirrel

films & TV

May 2 2003, 9:44 PM 

Well done C.Nickel.
"Yank at Eton" was not perhaps one of Mickey Rooney's best efforts. I think it was meant as wartime propaganda - how USA and UK think they don't like each other much, but turn out to be on the same side really, when push comes to shove. Highly allegorical for 1942, you see. Thus, Rooney first appears to the Brits as a vulgar, bragging loudmouth (sound familiar?) but is revealed in the end to be quite a decent chap. He for his part is most reluctant to leave his American school, a smart, ivy-leaf-bedecked establishment called Notre Dame (pron. Nohtre Daym) to be sent to what he imagines - with some justification, one might suppose - to be a nest of arrogant, snobby poofters. But after a few sound thrashings and a few goes at the Eton Wall Game he realises that those goddam Limeys are made of tougher stuff than he realised.
To me the most striking thing about this completely preposterous farrago of nonsense is that, typically I think for film-makers on both sides of the Atlantic in those days, it doesn't seem to have occurred to its originators that 99% of the US audience and 99% of the UK audience would have regarded both these posh schools and their inmates as being on another planet altogether from anything they could possibly relate to.

 
 
Ron

Re: Films and TV

May 2 2003, 10:02 PM 

On the public school theme, there's an old black and white version of "Goodbye, Mr Chips" that features the caning of a boy who has dared to suggest that some of the masters ought to be in the armed forces in WW1. Can't remember any of the cast though.

 
 
squirrel

goodbye mr chips

May 2 2003, 10:12 PM 

Mr Chips is played in the 1939 version by Robert Donat. The caning scene is done in silhouette.
By the way, there was recently a new TV version of this story. I missed it, but I'm told that Mr Chips was turned into a campaigner against c.p.! As far as I know, this is a travesty of the original book by James Hilton.

 
 
Hankypankee

Chips with everything

May 2 2003, 10:22 PM 

Hi,
I think this must be the version starring Robert Donat and Greer Garson. Robert Donat gave a masterful performance as Mr Chipping and it is, arguably, one of his best ever performances. This film has the lot, if you want a real treat see it soon.

HP

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Re: Films and TV

May 2 2003, 10:23 PM 

"Goodbye, Mr Chips" (1939) starred Robert Donat as the eponymous academic.

When a pupil calls the masters at the school "a lot of weak-kneed women - they're not in the army because they're not fit to be, or too old, or too frightened. They're getting back on us by being tough and being tyrants," Chips (shown in an enlarged shadow) canes the boy and then lectures:

"It didn't amuse me to do that, Burton. Very soon now, you'll be an officer in France. You'll need discipline from your men and to get that you must know what discipline means. Now you despise the masters here because they're not young enough or strong enough to fight. You might like to know that every one of them has done his best to join the army. We take no man unless he has done that. I'm headmaster now simply because every man fit to be headmaster is fighting in France. I'm a war-time fluke - a temporary officer risen from the ranks. But I'm going to keep Brookfield together til the war's over."

Donat won an oscar for his performance - in a year of unprecedented competition (e.g. Clark Gable's Rhett Butler).

 
 
BoB

Australia and China

May 3 2003, 3:45 AM 

The OZ movie: 'Flirting' (1990) opens with a caning in the housemaster's study. In the dormitory afterwards the boys carefully inspect each others weals with the aid of a flashlight. A young Nicole Kidman stars.



From China, 'Farewell My Concubine' (1993). Several bare bottom thrashings. One of the boys returns as an adult and submits to a thrashing. Most unusual movie which offers a glimpse of a culture foreign to most of us.

 
 
Max

Re: Australia and China

May 3 2003, 2:37 PM 

The British TV 2 part drama "The leaving of Liverpool"
which follows the events of orphans being sent to Australia in the 1950s depicts 2 caning scenes.

In part one a boy is caned over a desk in a Liverpool school.

In part two a girl is caned on her bottom by the headmaster of an Australian school though only her face is shown while the cane is heard landing.

 
 
Roger

Film Catalogue

May 4 2003, 11:58 AM 

I am most grateful to Sandra (your style is familiar, but I cannot quite place it), C. Nickel, Squirrel, Max, BobbyK, Hankypankee, BoB, Karen, Brian, Gillian, Peter and Ron for adding so splendidly to the list of film titles.

The complete catalogue will be available as a supplement to the research publication.

 
 

Happy Valley

May 4 2003, 3:21 PM 

Hi, I've been looking for a "copy" of the above but no luck..!! Any ideas..??

 
 
Belinda

Re: Happy Valley

May 4 2003, 4:36 PM 

Paisley (Not Ian I hope),

If you join the lesbianating group at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FFspankingstories

you will be able to download from the files section video clips of the caning scenes in ‘Happy Valley'.

Most of the male members here have joined using female names.

 
 

More films

May 10 2003, 6:02 AM 

There is a strapping of the leading girl in "The Thorn Birds" A big TV block buster film 1980's, In the book there is a caning session, but this is not in the film, and the strapping session is not in the book!!!

There is a Spanking in The "Flame Trees if Thirkel" It has Holly Aird in (Same as in Happy Valley) I may not have spelt the name right of Thirkel.

There is also a good strapping scene in "the Country Girls", a TV film I saw on Channel 4 once.

 
 
47david

CP in films and TV

May 10 2003, 9:20 PM 

"The Slingshot", a Swedish film from the early 1990's shows a boy of about 12 being paddled on the bare bottom by the headmaster. There is a long shot of the boy lying across a stool, trousers and pants round ankles but we don't see the paddle applied to his bottom, just a close up of his face. A couple of scenes later the boy's father drags the boy into the family living room, pants down, to show the boy's amused older brother and shocked mother the bruised bottom of the boy.
On BBC TV the 4 part series "The Monocled Mutineer" about the exploits of Percy Topliss, a rebellious soldier, opens with a shot of the young Topliss, aged about 10, receiving a judicial birching from a policeman. We see his trousers and pants being pulled down, shirt tails lifted and his wrists tied and again a facial close up during the beating.
Also there was a parental beating which is an early scene in the TV adaptation of "Among Women" the John McGahern novel. Set in Ireland in the 1950's, a boy of about 12 or 13 is forced to strip naked in front of his two sisters (his youger brother is sent out of the room) and given a severe belting by his father which we see causes him to urinate to the great distress of his sisters. Again we see carefully angled shots of the boys clothing being removed and a facial close up.

Incidentally, while agreeing with others about the greatness of Dennis Potter's "Blue Remembered Hills" it does not contain any spanking scenes (rather a shame as one of the little girls is played by Helen Mirren!). However the cane-wielding schoolmistress in "The Singing Detective" also threatens the culprit with a caning by (presumably) the headmaster in front of the whole school, and while it is not specifically mentioned, there is an undertone (given that the culprit's crime is to leave a turd on the teacher's desk)that suggests any beating might reasonably beewith pants down.
There are other classroom scenes in Dennis Potter plays and while the Forest of Dean settings are authentic and the cruelty of both adults and children are explored I don't recall any actual Corporal Punishment scenes on screen. In "Singing Detective" Michael Gambon later describes to the psychiatrist the guilt he feels at having watched the schoolmistress unmercifully beating the boy he falsely informs on.
Finally, both TV and film versions of D H Lawrence's "The Rainbow" show a classroom caning of a boy by a young woman teacher. There is a detailed analysis of this scene in Edward Anthony's "Thy Rod and Staff" (Abacus) which should be on everyone's shelves (and I suspect already is on many contributors to this site!)

 
 
Roger

Re: CP in films and TV

May 11 2003, 8:27 AM 

Thank you, Chris and 47David, for adding to the film catalogue.

I know of only one scene in a Dennis Potter play where the administering of corporal punishment is shown. In ‘Pennies from Heaven’, the Headmaster, played by Freddie Jones, cuffs a boy’s head during assembly. It an unpleasant moment.

 
 
squirrel

whackings on telly

May 13 2003, 7:25 AM 

Since we have widened the scope of this thread from films to TV, we ought to mention the 1982 TV play BIRTH OF A NATION, by David Leland, which contains no fewer than 3 separate whacking incidents (2 slipperings and one with a table tennis bat). Though described as a play, it was really a "made-for-TV movie", much of it filmed on location at a real comprehensive school.
The hero, played by Jim Broadbent, is partly modelled on Alan Corkish, a rather Spartesque teacher in Liverpool who in 1981 leaked punishment book pages to STOPP showing dozens of slipperings every day. There is a news item about it at www.corpun.com/uksc8101.htm.
Corkish nowadays is a "poet"; he mentions this episode at http://www.zyworld.com/alanjulia/Alan/tv01.htm.
There is a short review of the film at http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0083656 but it doesn't mention the whackings.

squirrel

 
 
Roger

Re: whackings on telly

May 13 2003, 7:34 AM 

Thank you, once again, squirrel. You are encyclopaedic.

 
 
Tradesmen's Entrance

Re: Re: whackings on telly

May 20 2003, 5:22 PM 

Does the Busted video for "What I go to school for" count? Miss Mckenzie canes one of the lads yer know!

Also, You've missed off "Dead Poets' Society" and "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" (both paddling scenes)

 
 
Tim

School Corporal Punishment in Films

May 20 2003, 11:07 PM 

Not school, but my favourite film CP scene is the caning of a young midshipman in the film HMS Defiant.


 
 
Frankie

re: whackings on telly

October 12 2003, 2:06 PM 

I remember the Tom Brown's Schooldays series. It was shown first on BBC 1 and then again on BBC 2. probably early 1970s in the UK. There was a lot of formal canings in it as I remember, in support of both the plot, and representing the reality of both morality and discipline at the period. (Leaving aside whether it should have been the birch as per the book, and time period). More recently one of my daughters got out the video when 'doing the book' for an English project. This video was compiled from exactly the same series, but surprise-surprise, all the 'action' had been cut out. Even she was surprised at how milk and water it had been made, from the basis of reading the actual book!

I don't know what the original writers of the screenplay, or even the descendants of Dr Arnold himself make of this kind of namby-pamby revisionism. It isn't to be classed as an evil such as unreasonable and insupportable denial of genuine atrocities, but it is certainly one of the early indicators of willingness to tolerate the supporting concepts leading to this! (We won't burn the books this time; lets just tear out the pages we don't like. Whoops, there goes another priceless and irreplaceable first edition which was originally acclaimed for artistic value, period reality, and deemed both entirely suitable for presentation to children over many decades, and educational to boot. Never mind they will never know/never notice!)

 
 

Clips available on CD

October 12 2003, 9:46 PM 

Many of the clips mentioned in this thread are available on a CD ROM called Good Old Fashioned Discipline - The Way it Used to Be. Vol.1.

Clips from: IF, SWALK, Tom Sawyer, Flame Trees of Thika, Dead Poets Society, Lady Jane, A French Mistress, David Copperfield and Another Country.

For more information go to : www.old-school-yard.com

 
 

more school CP in media

October 13 2003, 10:18 PM 

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the 1980s Anne of Avonlea, where the schoolteacher heroine "administers the strap" to a cheeky student for putting a snake in her desk. A long stick (a pointer?) is shown descending on as the girl holds out her hand for 2-3 strokes before going back to her seat uncowed (why the stick is referred to as a strap is beyond me...). In their attempt to squeeze books 2-4 of the series together into a couple hours, the makers of this movie apparently took an incident from book 2 (Anne whips a troublesome boy in class) and switch the location, motivation, and recipient to those from book 4 (where there are no corporal punishment scenes).

Also, the Canadian (I think) TV series Emily of New Moon (based on a trio of books by the same author) had two corporal punishment scenes, in the episodes I've seen, at least. In the first, an "evil" schoolmaster is shown picking on a little Indian kid. Emily interferes, and he is shown looming menacingly over her, with a stick (I think). In the next scene, her father discovers her crying on the bed and we later see a doctor treating the stripes on her back. This has absolutely no basis in the original book. In episode 2 or 3 (I forgot which), the heroine forgets herself in class while the teacher is reading poetry. The teacher thinks she is being mocked and administers three cuts to Emily's hand w/ her pointer. Mostly face shots shown. Again, not really based on the book (tho there is mention of that teacher slapping Emily at some point).

 
 
The Tawser

Hornblower

October 14 2003, 1:39 AM 

In the recent A&E television series there are two Midshipmen's canings delivered by the bosun in the episode named "Mutiny"

 
 
Jo

Grange Hill Caning

October 16 2003, 6:01 AM 


 
 

Brides of christ

October 17 2003, 10:17 PM 

I have a short video clip of the aforementioned punishment if anyone is interested

SC
(_________

 
 

re:SCP in Films

October 18 2003, 3:29 AM 

I'm surprized no one has mentioned "How Green Was My Valley" where a young Roddy McDowell gets caned severely for fighting.

 
 

Best caning....

October 19 2003, 6:26 PM 

...I can recall was surely the delightful schoolgirl in that film about life in Kenya in the 30s or 50s...Happy Valley I think it was called. It was a good few years ago but I remember a severe caning on the bare bottom...there may even have been a shot or two of her lovely bare buttocks!

 
 
Wild Rose

Re: Best caning....

October 19 2003, 8:08 PM 

I wonder if Steven saw the same ‘Happy Valley’ as I did? There was no bare bum caning. See ‘The Happy Valley’ thread, which at the moment is still on this page, for details of sites from which to download the video clips.

 
 
Brian4

The Seventh Veil

September 28 2004, 6:37 PM 

I did not write the piece that follows and so I cannot add my usual
CopyrightBrian4BonaPosts, but it is so good that I want you all to see it. The film was a favourite of Fran.

The above paragraph CopyrightBrian4BonaPosts

Hard as it is to imagine it happening now, but in 1946 a British film
was released that had as its central theme the traumatic effects of a
severe hand caning on a schoolgirl in her mid-teens. The girl was
played by an adult Ann Todd and the drama unfolds as a psychological
re-telling of her life after a suicide attempt. The film won an Oscar
for best Screenplay. At the very heart of the mystery is a story
about love and repressed feelings - but crucially these issues all
stem from a scene that happens early in the story when she recounts
an incident at her boarding school. Having bunked off to the
countryside with a tearaway pal, I think to avoid games, she is
caught and punished. A talented protégé on the piano, the punishment
is set to take place on the evening before a crucial music exam...the
thing she lives for is to play music. In the headmistress's study she
realises she will be caned and pleads to be given another
punishment: 'Don't cane my hands, please' she says. We see all this
and then the headmistress, quite unmoved raising the cane. The
camera cuts away and we see the cane falling in shadow on the wall
and hear the sound of the thumps. The next day, so blistered are her
hands that she cannot play properly and fails her exam, causing a
lifelong problem only resolved after rigorous analysis. She is caned
again, later, by her mentor, played by a young James Mason, but it is
a furious reaction to her affair with a band leader. He swipes her
hands with his stick as she plays piano under his tuition...a scene
of great, significant anger and the focus of the film.

It testifies not only to the prevalence of caning in those days, but
also to its potential to leave a deep impression on some, and no
lasting effect on others. In one scene in the film, in adult life,
the main character meets her old friend from school - the tearaway -
who jokes about the time they were caned. Clearly she had not been so
affected. Many of us were caned alongside our fellow pupils, most of
whom took it in their stride and probably thought not much more of
it. But for many...the impression was deep and remains an abiding
source of fascination. In the film The Seventh Veil, this trauma is
closely linked to love and sexual repression. Something about being
caned at that age, with the crucial power relationships in play
between superior and submissive, with transgressive exuberance (what
most of us were actually caned for was simple hi-jinx) met with
repressive disciplining. Is it any wonder that it becomes combined
with burgeoning sexuality...and the repression of that same,
transgressive energy?




 
 
James

P'tang Yang Kipperbang

September 30 2004, 8:06 PM 

No one seems to have mentioned "P'tang Yang Kipperbang", written by Jack Rosenthal and first broadcast during the early days of Channel 4 in the "First Love" series. Headmaster (Robert Urquhart) gives schoolboy John, played by John Albasiny, three strokes of the cane across his gym shorts for being late for school once too often. The video is rather rare these days, but it's still possible to find a copy every so often.

 
 

SPARE THE ROD

October 16 2004, 10:14 PM 

This film was on Channel 5 about 4 years ago at about 2.00am, I had to record it, there were lots of hand canings, the head was even training Max Bygraves on how to cane on the hand.Normally these films seem to come around again on the same channels so check your TV listings weekly for channel 5. Talking of hand canings, has anyone seen The rockingham shoot it was made by the BBC in the eighties, on the web there are some pictures of this programme, I would have liked to have seen the caning that made those marks on the hand with a dragon cane, unless its some good work by the make up team. The Kes canings are real because I read somewhere there was a dispute over the payments for a real caning on the boys. How times have changed.

 
 

401 Blows: A Spanking compendium; Parts 1 - 4

October 17 2004, 7:19 AM 

In case any of you don't already know about them, I have artfully edited together four two-hours long spanking compendiums. Each video has hundreds of spanking scenes from throughout film and t.v. history throughout the world. All proceeds from the videos go into the production of further volumes as well as to funding a non-profit, volunteer run media arts center in New Orleans. They are available through my website www.zeitgeistinc.org/videos

I am always willing to trade and am currently trying to find clips so I can edit together Part V. I hope to have enough clips to edit it together in the next couple of months. Thanks.

Rene

 
 
Tim Green

P'tang etc

October 19 2004, 9:02 AM 

This is one of my favourite school CP scenes in film. The boy is reluctantly made to report to the Head before he has had a chance to change out of his gym kit and the Head, dissatisfied with the results he is having, selects a larger cane for each successive stroke.

The film was broadcast on the very first night of Channel 4. It has been shown again but not when I've had a chance to record it. I had hoped it might be put on to mark Jack Rosenthal's death but only the BBC seemed to have been airing Jack's back catalogue.

Tim

 
 

CHRISTMAS DAY CANINGS

December 9 2004, 7:58 PM 

Have just read the Radio Times, Christmas afternoon there will be 6 on the backside in Great Expectations,(BBC2) then on ITV1 one on the hand in Goodbye Mr Chips. Wacky viewing.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Chips with everything

June 16 2005, 2:11 PM 

I remember a tv drama called "Children of Fire Mountain", set in Victorian New Zealand. The lead character did something (I forget what) for which he ended up getting the cane from his father.

It left an impression because it was not long after my first taste of the cane at school, so I felt some sympathy!

 
 
Danny

The Webster Boy

July 18 2005, 8:52 PM 

This 1962 film starred Richard O'Sullivan of 'Robins Nest' fame.
In it there was a very realistic scene of the young (13/14 year old) O'Sullivan being caned by his housemaster.
I have never seen it on TV or anywhere else since it's first showing in 60s cinemas.

 
 
squirrel

the webster boy

July 18 2005, 10:37 PM 

I was aware of this film -- have even seen a publicity poster for it -- but have never seen it. Why is it never on TV? Richard O'Sullivan was rather cute as a boy. Curiously enough, he also appeared in the aforementioned (see further up this page) Max Bygraves vehicle, "Spare the Rod". He was also a schoolboy in "Carry On Teacher" (1959), in which I think I recall that whacking was alluded to but not shown, with Ted Ray as an unlikely headmaster, if memory serves.

 
 
Membership Secretary

Re: the webster boy

July 18 2005, 10:48 PM 

I know some members have doubted that the encyclopaedic squirrel is a leading authority on Max Bygraves. The above message should convince them otherwise.

 
 

The Webster Boy

July 20 2005, 7:44 PM 

Hadn't seen or even heard of the Webster Boy, although I had seen Spare the Rod in which Max Bygraves gives Richard O'Sullivan a hard whack on one of his hands. What was the scenario in the Webster Boy? Was he caned on the rear in that film?

 
 
Danny

The Webster Boy

July 20 2005, 8:58 PM 

It's a long time ago now but as I remember it young O'Sullivan falls foul of this bullying master - I believe it's his housemaster. He is picked on for the slightest thing and frequently has to bend over for a caning.
I have always looked out for it on TV but I don't think it has ever been shown.

 
 
Nathan

Brides of Christ

August 13 2005, 5:15 AM 

The actress spanked in that show was actually the Ring and Ring 2 star. Naomi Watts, who is also an oscar nominee for David Lynch's Mulholland Drive.

 
 
Danny

Tom Brown's Schooldays

August 13 2005, 2:00 PM 

This recent TV film had a great scene where Tom is sent to 'The Birching Tower' and before Dr Arnold comes up to administer his punishment the boy is seen waiting, kneeling on the block. It has a very real feel to it, with all the suspence of awaiting a caning in a dark silent room, with the boy's breathing giving just the right atmosphere.
Authentically, of course, it fails to portray a real Arnoldian birching. The cane is used and the boy keeps his trousers on. At Rugby, as in all other Public Schools at that time, only the birch was used. The birch was always applied across the bare buttocks but in today's world I suppose that truth isn't politically correct.
Why that should be I can't understand because a few moments later we see Tom showing his striped bare backside to a group of his peers. If that can be shown, why change historical fact?
Any ideas Squirrel?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: The Webster Boy

August 13 2005, 10:51 PM 

Danny writes:
"Tom Brown's Schooldays
"This recent TV film had a great scene where Tom is sent to 'The Birching Tower' and before Dr Arnold comes up to administer his punishment the boy is seen waiting, kneeling on the block. It has a very real feel to it, with all the suspence of awaiting a caning in a dark silent room, with the boy's breathing giving just the right atmosphere.
"Authentically, of course, it fails to portray a real Arnoldian birching. The cane is used and the boy keeps his trousers on. At Rugby, as in all other Public Schools at that time, only the birch was used. The birch was always applied across the bare buttocks but in today's world I suppose that truth isn't politically correct.
"Why that should be I can't understand because a few moments later we see Tom showing his striped bare backside to a group of his peers. If that can be shown, why change historical fact?
"Any ideas Squirrel?"

-- The same was true of the punishments depicted in the 1972 version of Tom Brown (likewise shown as cane over trousers). In the film bio of Charlie Chaplin at his reformatory or workhouse or whatever it was, if I remember rightly a birch is shown but absurdly it is given over his trousers. In the Churchill movie "Young Winston" mentioned earlier in this thread, at least it is indicated that the punishment is on the bare bottom but the instrument is wrongly shown as the cane instead of the birch.

In fact, off the top of my head the only more or less authentic portrayal of a birching that I can think of is the one at the beginning of "Monocled Mutineer", a judicial birching, not a school one. It may be relevant that, if I remember it right, you don't actually see the bare bottom with the birch landing on it, but the shots are cut in such a way that it's fairly clear what is happening. Perhaps this is the best compromise, if it has to be accepted that audiences are too squeamish to be shown the full-on reality.

Danny asks me for my views on this state of affairs. I suggest two main possibilities:

(1) Maybe the people who make these films simply don't know enough about the historical details, owing to inadequate research. Even top-budget Hollywood movies can get things wildly wrong. Probably the movie people don't think it matters because most of the audience won't know any better. They may be right. But for those of us who do notice these things, the film is quite spoiled. In Enigma, set during WW2, we see a steam train in British Railways livery; the railways of course weren't nationalised until 1947. (And also the hero sets off by car from Bletchley to the far north of Scotland, apparently arriving within the day; apart from anything else, where on earth did he get the petrol coupons from to do that?) In Educating Rita, supposedly set in Liverpool, anyone who knows Liverpool can see that it's filmed somewhere else and anyone who knows Dublin can see that what is allegedly a college in Liverpool is in fact Trinity College Dublin (in case of any lingering doubt, Dublin buses in CIE livery with Irish lettering on them can clearly be seen passing by). This is in the first moments of the movie, which means that for at the very least 4 million of the potential audience, if you take the combined populations of the Liverpool and Dublin conurbations, it is completely impossible to take the film seriously after the first two minutes. And so on and so on.

(2) Or, it could be that the filmmakers do know that what they are portraying is inaccurate but they think today's audience would be offended by the truth. As you say, it seems to be OK for boys to show their marks afterwards. Marks on bottoms are also featured in Young Winston, After the War, Flirting, and no doubt several others. But I suppose the audience can be expected to know that these are just got up by the makeup department, and perhaps a glimpse of a static wealed bottom after the event isn't regarded with the same horror that showing the actual process of infliction might allegedly provoke. Given the truly horrific things that are shown in loving detail in many other modern movies, this does seem really quite ridiculous, but there we are.

sq

 
 
Geoff

"Oliver Twist" (1948 version)

August 15 2005, 4:00 AM 

This has a scene where Oliver is caned on his bottom before he runs away. I remember it because it was shown to my school class in the late 1960s; we were liable to the same punishment (and regularly received it).

 
 
GaryJenk

Tom Brown's Schooldays (2005 version)

August 17 2005, 4:40 PM 

I agree that the punishment scenes in the recent TV version of "Tom Brown" (with Stephen Fry as Dr Arnold) were very well done , even if historically unauthentic.

When the boy kneels for his second caning (from the prefect) the expression on his face is just perfect, one of resignation knowing from previous experience that what he is about to receive will be unpleasant but not unbearable.

Talking of Stephen Fry, he is perceptive on the subject in his autobiography "Moab is my washpot" (daft title but worth reading). He says that he recalls with a degree of resentment childhood incidents when people were unkind to him, but that he has absolutely no resentment about the canings he received from his schoolmasters which were mostly well-deserved.

 
 

401 Blows has a new website

August 20 2005, 4:59 AM 

www.zeitgeistvideos.org

 
 
Danny

Expressions

August 22 2005, 12:01 PM 

You're right about Alex as Tom Brown giving a great impression of resignation as he kneels for his second caning. Also the sigh as he does so is even better. I didn't think his expression after that first whack was realistic in any way though. It wouldn't matter how used to it you were, you surely couldn't help at the very least wincing! After a stroke like that it would be impossible to keep a straight face! Unless you were a world champion poker player, of course - or George W!

 
 
Daniel

From the flim "Flirting"

August 29 2005, 8:17 PM 

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[IMG][/IMG]

 
 
Geoff

"The Queen of Sheba's Pearls" (2004)

October 4 2005, 8:36 AM 

One more for this list - the above film features a schoolboy (Jack Bradly) being given 12 strokes of the cane on his bottom bending over the back of a chair by the headmaster for instigating a masturbation contest.
There is a slighly amusing scene a little later in the film when the boy's aunt shows up in the headmaster's office but is met by matron rather than the headmaster who informs the aunt she is there for the boys' welfare although she supports the punishment. In the shot a number of canes can be seen hanging from a coatstand.

 
 
aboringgit

Rugby School corporal punishment

March 29 2007, 2:13 AM 

I notice there have been one or two comments about corporal punishment at Rugby School, as presided over by Dr. Arnold. It is quite inaccurate to say that the cane was not used and the birch was. In that school, at that time, only Arnold as Headmaster used the birch at all. All other masters and senior pupils like prefects used a cane (usually in the classroom). Indeed, if you read the Thomas Hughes book, one master is described as using the cane on Tom and Harry East (across the hands) quite early on.

Anyway, I came across this page by accident whilst researching corporal punishment, so I’ll naff orf now. I will just mention two titles I haven’t seen anyone mention yet: Hope & Glory and Danny the Champion of the World. First one was a film about a family coping during the Blitz in WW2 and the second was an adaption of a Roald Dahl book, starring Jeremy Irons.

 
 
aboringgit

Rugby School corporal punishment

March 29 2007, 2:18 AM 



I notice there have been one or two comments about corporal punishment at Rugby School, as presided over by Dr. Arnold. It is quite inaccurate to say that the cane was not used and the birch was. In that school, at that time, only Arnold as Headmaster used the birch at all. All other masters and senior pupils like prefects used a cane (usually in the classroom). Indeed, if you read the Thomas Hughes book, one master is described as using the cane on Tom and Harry East (across the hands) quite early on.

Anyway, I came across this page by accident whilst researching corporal punishment, so I’ll naff orf now. I will just mention two titles I haven’t seen anyone mention yet: Hope & Glory and Danny the Champion of the World. First one was a film about a family coping during the Blitz in WW2 and the second was an adaption of a Roald Dahl book, starring Jeremy Irons.


 
 

Films showing corporal punishment

March 30 2007, 4:26 PM 

Three films that involve corporal punishment should be mentioned and have not, I think, yet been referenced in this thread:

(1) The film "If" starring Malcolm McDowell who plays Mick Travis, a rebellious schoolboy. In on scene he is severely caned by the prefects of his boarding school and is forced to shake hands with his tormentor after the punishment.

(2) The great Swedish film, "Fanny and Alexander" (1982) by Bergman in which the boy of the title, Alexander Ekdahl (played brilliantly by Bertil Guve), is caned for lying by his puritanical stepfather, a Lutheran bishop. Alexander throughout the film wears short trousers with long thigh-length stockings. He is made to take his trousers down and is punished on his bottom by the bishop. We only see his face during the procedure, but the humiliation is made greater by the presence of others in the room including his sister Fanny and servants.

(3) The film "Another Country" (1984), based loosely on the boyhood experiences of two of Britain's most notorious spies, Burgess and McClean. Rupert Everett plays the homosexual Guy Bennett, the schoolboy character based on Guy Burgess who eventually defected to Moscow. He is severely caned by the prefects of his public school. The film was actually shot at Cambridge, not at Eton.

Kurt

 
 

An additional Swedish film, Evil

March 30 2007, 4:37 PM 

In my most recent addition, I forgot to add the Swedish film "Evil" (2002) that I had previously commented upon in a thread entitled "CP in Germany". If you look at this thread you will see a description of the film and a still of the boy being caned by his cruel stepfather.

Kurt


 
 

CP

August 29 2007, 3:10 PM 

Go to YouTube, and there are hundreds of scenes of corporal punishment
see my site --
miles2662
and go to my favourites

 
 
American Way

Re: "Brides of Christ"

April 19 2010, 12:06 AM 

Australia Catholic schoolgirl corporal punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQgHCQh2sJE

American Catholic schoolgirl corporal punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tiO5dZQXqs


 
 
American Way

Cute Christmas Caning

September 6 2011, 1:29 AM 

A SCHOOL INSPECTOR TELLS THIS STORY.

CLICK

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 6 2011, 1:41 AM 

From time to time youtube scenes are omitted. At 1:30 the scene from "Flirting" the Australian 1991 film is shown. Nudity.

http://youtu.be/ZBjpJGSsSIc

 
 

Spud

September 7 2011, 7:32 PM 

There is a new film available based on the first book of a series by John Van De Ruit called Spud. It is a South African film which was released last year in December. Set in a strict elite boarding school in 1990 the film shows a quite realistic caning scene. While you dont actually see the cane landing on his buttocks, you see the star, Troye Sivan, playing a 14 year old, bending across the back of the chair, then being told to raise his blazer, and the housemaster aiming the cane. You see then Troye actually screwing up his face as each stroke lands while he imagines different girls he fancies as a way to deal with the pain of the caning.

The film is also good because it shows how a bright boy who comes from a slightly disfunctional family, he wins a scholarship to the school, does not fit in with the elite school until the end of the film where he is seen kissing one of his female admirers after he plays the lead role in Oliver.

The film while it has not been released internationally is available on DVD from kalahari.com and it is a Region 2 disc so you will need a player that plays all regions.

Ted B

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 8 2011, 10:48 AM 


 
 
American Way

Re: School CP On Television

December 2 2011, 4:25 PM 

A school scene shortly before the outbreak of the first World War II. She played most likely in a coastal town in South Schleswig (today's northern Friesland) from, the German-dominated part of Schleswig (Northern Schleswig was more of the Danes claimed). It was probably in this part of the country as verpönnt to speak Danish. Scene from the TV series "The Riddle of the Sands" (1984) with Peter Sattmann. Location was probably here to Tetenbüll Eider city.

http://youtu.be/FBBbZqmnzUo


 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 24 2012, 12:49 PM 

http://www.bafta.org/awards/back-to-school-on-screen-teachers,555,BA.html

Back to School: Terrible Teachers on Film

Our winning entry was from Daniel Rogers in Buckinghamshire who suggested Mr Sugden from Ken Loach's Kes as the worst on-screen teacher of all time.


http://www.tcd.ie/Education/research/occasional-papers/OccPapDLAL2012.pdf

DILATED PUPILS: SEEING SCHOOLS THROUGH FILMS

This piece is an exploration of the nature, effect[s] and meaning[s] of two films of British
school life, Kes and If. The case is made that, although different in many ways, these
films both function as symbolic indicators of the pedagogical and social cultures of
twentieth century British education. It is further argued that the different schools
depicted in these films represent polarities: the maturing culture of the public schools
and the infantilising culture of the state comprehensives. This is a conclusion that might
be reached by other means but, we argue, film is especially suited to showing this.



http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00467600010012409

HISTORY OF EDUCATION, 2001, VOL. 30, NO. 2, pages 141-151
Representing education 1969/80: notes on Kes and Grange Hill

Ken Jones and Hannah Davies

How is schooling represented in British public discourse? Several writers have
addressed this question, exploring discourses that centre on representations of crisis
and failure, deployed to strategic effect. But work has tended to focus on only a
single medium, newspapers, and to relate questions of representation fairly narrowly
to issues of immediate political conflict. In this article, we want to extend
discussion about representation: first by moving outside the area of immediate
and conjunctural conflict to consider the ways in which educations more enduring
functions and processes are depicted; second, by exploring other, non-print media,
based on the moving image, which with their strong affective dimension and their
capacity for orchestrating several different kinds of aesthetic resource(music, light,
the human body) other representations of educational meanings that go beyond
questions of policy and programme.

We discuss two kinds of material: the feature film Kes, directed by Ken Loach
and produced/distributed by Kestrel Films/Woodfall Films in 1969; and the television
series Grange Hill, made for a child audience by the BBC and first screened in
1978. These texts were made during a moment, a long moment, of unresolved
educational crisis, in which questions of educations value and meaning were the
subject of sharp ideological conflict. They represent education from ideological and
aesthetic positions that assume both the seriousness of their subject matter, and the
necessity of handling it in ways that will educate and inform an audience, as well as
entertain. They work within a particular tradition of film and television, and at
the same time attempt to develop and extend the representational means of that
tradition so as to render it adequate to the experience of mass schooling that they
address.

 
 
HH

Re: 401 Blows: A Spanking compendium; Parts 1 - 4

February 21 2013, 3:15 AM 

Hi Rene, (re the post Oct 17, 2004, 7:19 am)     If you're still here...

"In case any of you don't already know about them, I have artfully edited together four two-hours long spanking compendiums. Each video has hundreds of spanking scenes from throughout film and t.v. history throughout the world..."

I went to your updated site but regretably cannot find where this is. Is this the same thing as the DVD set called "A Century in Discipline in the movies", Parts 1-4? Someone once lent me this, which was coincidentally an 8-hour 4 DVD compendium of CP footage taken from mainstream TV world-wide. Is this your work? If so, it is astonishing! kudos to you.

A lot of those clips jogged many childhood memories because I recall having seen the most of these movies on TV while growing up, particularly while I was a small boy in the late 1960's. That only further confirms, as I have forgotten, how abundantly common and normal it was to portray CP on mainstream TV at the time. From series like "Little House on the Prairies" to a vast array of Black & White films, mostly emanating from England. Some were quite realistic and shocking scenes (although typical for then), which I doubt could be aired today for various reasons.

There was a particular clip that stuck in my head, some boy being chased from a building and thrashed into the street, while being called a "Dirty Swede". Hmmmm... perhaps therein lay the seeds of the Scandinavian CP bans that were to come? (Call some kid a "dirty swede" and pretty soon the entire nation steps into the lunatic fringe, but I digress...)

And rarest of the rare, a real life interview with Dr. Irwin Hyman. I had never seen him in real life before; a most pleasant, kind natured and disarming man if ever there was one. While I disagreed with some of his viewpoints, I utterly respected him, may he RIP.

 


 
 

Allaxa

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 22 2013, 4:56 PM 

about the post : May 2 2003, 7:40 PM

 
 


Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 22 2013, 4:59 PM 

I want these 3 ones

Especially the 1st and 3rd


Back in the days of grainy black and white, early 1960s,TV I remember an episode of Dr Finlays Casebook, (ask your Grandparents), where the Doctor visited a girls boarding school and entered a classroom where the school mistress was giving a girl the tawse on her hands. The series was set in Scotland.



I also remember a BBC adaptation of Jane Eyre from the same time where the story opened with Jane being caned on her hands at school by Mr Brocklebank


Not quite school CP but in an episode of the truly awful Nanny series, set in the 19030s staring Wendy Craig, she worked as Nanny in a house where the Governess regularly caned the older girls on their hands. Wendy, of course, came to the rescue and drove her out.

Thanks a lot

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 22 2013, 5:14 PM 

Hi Allaxa,

Most of the footage in the DVD set I was referring to is also of the "grainy black and white" variety. I should make a correction, the title of this series is actually "A Century of Discipline In The Movies". I had searched for it but cannot find it anywhere. I suspect this has nothing to do with the content but rather perhaps with copyright issues, because series like "Little House..." do still run in reruns on some channels. I watched the entire series with my son last summer. I think it is educational, and has some morally redeeming qualities, versus the standard rubbish being aired these days.

You should try and find it if you're looking for realistic CP footage. (and let me know if you do!)

  


 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 22 2013, 11:05 PM 

Back in the days of grainy black and white, early 1960s,TV I remember an episode of Dr Finlays Casebook, (ask your Grandparents), where the Doctor visited a girls boarding school and entered a classroom where the school mistress was giving a girl the tawse on her hands. The series was set in Scotland.

I have access to some episodes of Dr. Finlay's Casebook (as with many other series of the time, many episodes no longer exist) but I'll need to see if I can narrow things down before I check them out - it costs money to get each episode and I can't just grab all the existing episodes on the off chance they are the right one. If you can remember anything else about the plot of the episode, it would help me try and check episode guides.

I also remember a BBC adaptation of Jane Eyre from the same time where the story opened with Jane being caned on her hands at school by Mr Brocklebank

Probably the 1963 series. I haven't got access to any of it at the moment, but four of the six episodes do still exist.

Not quite school CP but in an episode of the truly awful Nanny series, set in the 19030s staring Wendy Craig, she worked as Nanny in a house where the Governess regularly caned the older girls on their hands. Wendy, of course, came to the rescue and drove her out.

I do have this, and will try and get around to putting extracts on Youtube over the weekend.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 22 2013, 11:10 PM 

Back in the days of grainy black and white, early 1960s,TV I remember an episode of Dr Finlays Casebook, (ask your Grandparents), where the Doctor visited a girls boarding school and entered a classroom where the school mistress was giving a girl the tawse on her hands. The series was set in Scotland.

I have access to some episodes of Dr. Finlay's Casebook (as with many other series of the time, many episodes no longer exist) but I'll need to see if I can narrow things down before I check them out - it costs money to get each episode and I can't just grab all the existing episodes on the off chance they are the right one. If you can remember anything else about the plot of the episode, it would help me try and check episode guides.

If you can narrow down the year you saw it, that could help as well - obviously, for example, if you know you saw it in 1965, it can't be an episode made in 1970, for example.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 22 2013, 11:59 PM 

Hi Dean Clarke,

I hope that our Iranian contributor Allaxa will not mind my pointing out that the details given of the desired clips in the February 22 2013, 4:59 PM post above are not Allaxa's own accounts of experience of the scenes, but are copied and pasted from the original post describing them, on May 2 2003, 7:40 PM above. Even if Sandra, who made that post in 2003, still visits here, she may not recall much about the background to it now, and it may be that there will be no response to your request for more specific details.

From past experience I know that you will identify the scenes concerned if at all possible, and if you are able to post any of the requests I am confident that Allaxa will be very grateful.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 23 2013, 12:31 AM 

Thanks Another Lurker - yes, I'd missed that.

I should definitely be able to share the scene from 'The Nanny'. I've been looking at information about Dr. Finlay's Casebook, and I have identified a 'likely suspect' for the episode in question - it's just that it dates from 1969, not the early 1960s (not a major discrepancy). That episode is not currently available from any of my sources, but I can also find no immediate indication that it's a destroyed episode (the fact it's a Scottish series increases the chance it survived the great BBC purges (it meant it was archived by the BBC in Scotland as well as in England, which doubled the chance of survival straight away). I've put out a call through my sources to see if that episode is obtainable, and if it is, I will take the chance. I think there's a fair chance, I'll be able to get it, but it's far from certain.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 23 2013, 2:41 AM 

Hi Dean Clarke,

Thank you, that is most excellent news.

As I have said on many occasions, as far as I'm concerned the service you provide to this Forum is a very considerable one!

 
 
Dereks

Hi Dean

February 23 2013, 12:40 PM 

I would like to second that,it's a great service Dean and thank you.

On the subject of belting i'm looking for a tv series called blood red roses shown on channel 4,it apparently has a scene where a girl is belted by her pe teacher in front of the headmistress,it was also made into a film,can anyone help cheers

 
 


Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 23 2013, 1:17 PM 

good sounds

Thank you very much

and i'm just waiting :-w

:X

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 23 2013, 10:36 PM 

Extracts from The Nanny

Blood Red Roses is also on my list of programs I am trying to get, but so far, without success.

 
 
Dereks

Blood red roses

February 23 2013, 11:11 PM 

Wow is it,have you seen it?

i have no idea how to go about seeing it,how will you?

 
 
Tawse

Blood Red Roses

February 24 2013, 7:13 AM 

I found this precis of what looks like the film refered to http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/975703/index.html

 
 
dereks

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

February 24 2013, 10:32 PM 

Yea thats all i've been able to find

someone must have it

apparently she pushes the gym teacher over,who then belts her in front of the headmistress

 
 
HH

Dr. Irwin Hyman interviewed

February 25 2013, 11:56 PM 

It is with great pleasure that I can offer these two interview clips, with some other material attached. (These segments are shown under Fair Use Doctrines for Educational and Non-commercial Use, and are the property of the original copyright holder)

Clip 1 and Clip 2

 

 
 
HH

A Cane for 5 pupils at once!

March 2 2013, 10:27 PM 

This grainy B&W clip is comes from an unknown comedy film (judging by the scene). Notice the cane the Headmaster intends to punish his pupils with ... it is ingeniously designed to caning 5 pupils at once!

Here's the clip

(This segment is shown under Fair Use Doctrines for Educational and Non-commercial Use, and is the property of the original copyright holder)

   


 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 2 2013, 10:31 PM 

NB: There is a glitch in this for several seconds, that I haven't been able to solve sad.gif  but the clip continues after it.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 2 2013, 10:33 PM 

This grainy B&W clip is comes from an unknown comedy film (judging by the scene).

It's from Bottoms Up, the film associated with the Whack-O! television series.

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 2 2013, 10:37 PM 

Thank you Dean Clarke, for the lightning fast response in solving this mystery! Now that you mention it, I knew I'd seen him before happy.gif

 


 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 2 2013, 10:42 PM 

Wow is it,have you seen it?

No, I haven't. It's on my list of things I am trying to get because it's been mentioned here before, and I added it to my list as that point.

i have no idea how to go about seeing it,how will you?

There are places online where people share old television shows. It's a technical violation of copyright, so the most successful of these places tend to try and stay under the radar, but as long as you are not sharing material that the companies involved are trying to sell (on commercial DVDs, for example) they tend to turn a blind eye to it. Two such forums I am involved in share, respectively, British television programmes, and Commonwealth television programmes.

So far I've had no luck getting the relevant Doctor Finlay episode, but it's early days on that one - and a lot of episodes from the same general time frame are available. Blood Red Roses on the other hand, is one I've been trying to get for a while and if it was going to turn up, it probably would have by now. But things do turn up from time to time, so it's a matter of waiting and seeing.

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 2 2013, 11:41 PM 


 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 2 2013, 11:52 PM 

Thank you Oliver for pointing those out. It also appears that this was far too easy for Dean wink.gif No... no... that just won't do, so I'll definitely have to try a little harder!

 


 
 
HH

Spanking in a Catholic Boarding School

March 3 2013, 12:48 AM 

Here's a clip from a movie that appears (by the CBC logo) to have once run on National TV here. The setting is clearly a catholic school, and the bedding tells me it's a boarding school. (This segment is shown under Fair Use Doctrines for Educational and Non-commercial Use, and is the property of the original copyright holder)

Dean, I am hopeful this will pose a greater challenge for you to identify. But if anyone does know what film it's from, by all means...

here


 
 
dereks

corporal punishment in films

March 3 2013, 11:22 PM 

Well thanks for you're efforts Dean.Hopefully Blood red roses will turn up at some point.

Can anyone identify thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o34faQyARKs it's really frustrating as there is a good build up and i'd love to see what follows

 
 

Allaxa

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 5 2013, 10:29 AM 

The Seventh Veil Scene Please !!! :-w sad.gif

 
 
HH

Primsoll and Paddle clip

March 5 2013, 8:56 PM 

I'm not sure of there's any interest in the type of material as presented above in "Spanking in a Catholic Boarding School". So, perhaps some documentary clips might be. I'll see what I can "dig up" but here's a curious one. This looks like two back-to-back, and unrelated documentary clips.

The first is a typical scene formerly played out in the UK ... a boy taking two smacks with a primsoll (heard but not seen) by the PE teacher in the change room. Immediately after this comes an obviously American scene. The pupil gets one swat (heard but not seen) with the paddle in the office. Notice the educator calls this a "crack" - isn't it usually a "swat", "pop" or "lick"?

I could swear the boy standing to the left in the first clip is also the one sitting second-to-the-right of the four seated boys shown in the second clip... but that would make no sense. Any idea where these were originally from? Click here to view it.

(This segment is shown under Fair Use Doctrines for Educational and Non-commercial Use, and is the property of the original copyright holder)

  


 
 
prof.n

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 5 2013, 10:27 PM 



Hi HH,

The American scene is from a documentary I recall having seen in a university collection . It was about the early days of 'alternate education' and if I remember correctly was made by a British or Canadian company. The issue of corporal punishment was pretty central to one strand of the film. It WASN'T set in the South , that I do recall, but in one of the central heartland states that abolished in the 80's .....I think , again rattling old brain cells, it was made in the early 70's.

I'll do some on line uni catalogue searches and see if I can trace it .

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 1:39 AM 

Thank you prof.n, putting this in it's original context would be quite interesting. In the meantime, I'm digging for some other snippets that I may have.  

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 5:56 AM 

I'm not sure of there's any interest in the type of material as presented above in "Spanking in a Catholic Boarding School".

It's of interest to me (as a product of Catholic education) - and I would bet a lot of other people as well. One thing I've found on this forum is that a video can be viewed by hundreds of people and sometimes nobody bothers to comment at all.

I can't identify the source of that clip. I wish I could. It doesn't seem to me like it should be that obscure. The same is true of the clip shared by Dereks.

The boy emerging from the changing room in a towel after being slippered is definitely from Grange Hill and can be seen here in its wider context. It has no connection to the other clips in that sequence.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 6:09 AM 

The following extracts are ones I've spent years trying to get a copy of.

They are taken from a one off television program for children that was made by the Australian Children's Television Foundation (ACTF) and aired on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) in 1990. The program was called The Big Wish and was part of an overall series called More Winners which was a follow up to a highly successful series of one off dramas for children a few years earlier called Winners. The Winners series was widely critically acclaimed in Australia for its attempt to produce high quality television stories for Australian children as a counterpoint to the large amount of television for children (cartoons imported from America in many cases) that were seen as low quality and designed to advertise product rather than educate and enlighten. Winners - mostly - was good quality and often touched on some complex issues affecting children - environmentalism, sporting competition, bullying, the experience of immigrants - but it was also controversial at times. And one area of controversy was one story that some saw as presenting corporal punishment in schools in something of a positive light (it was being threatened against a bully who was the villain of the piece) at a time when much of the country was moving towards prohibition of corporal punishment, at least in the state schools.

When More Winners came along a few years later as an attempt to 'recapture' the success of Winners, some have said that there was a deliberate attempt in The Big Wish to present corporal punishment in schools in a different light. The Headmaster using the cane in this series is a long way from the sympathetic, caring man with a strap in the original Winners series, and the use of the punishment is much less deserved. While More Winners did have some good stories, in my opinion, The Big Wish is not one of them - it's rather silly to be honest, and its plot (of a fairy prince who has to give a mortal seven wishes in one day or lose his magic) was rather weak, but I still think it could be of interest here, given its portrayal of corporal punishment, and a pretty rotten Headmaster.

Extracts from The Big Wish

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 12:36 PM 

Hi Dean

Thank you for the clips from The Big Wish. Interesting they show the boys caned on the bottom rather than the hand, as also portrayed in Fatty Finn (1980). I do not believe that was approved practice in state schools in any Australian state, but I do not know. It was however not unusual in NSW in the 1960s.

If anyone is interested I see that there are clips from various episodes of Winners (1985) and More Winners (1990) at the Australian Screen website. See http://aso.gov.au/title-search/?q=winners . One features a young Nicole Kidman.

The web site curator says The Big Wish is a telemovie from the ACTFs (Australian Childrens Television Foundation) More Winners Series. It is a charming comedy-fantasy with some hilarious scenes and amusing characterisation, and was very popular with both Australian and international audiences when first screened. The Big Wish won the Festival award for Outstanding Humour at the Chicago International Childrens Films Awards (United States), 1990.

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 4:04 PM 

Hi Dean, "The boy emerging from the changing room in a towel after being slippered is definitely from Grange Hill".

Thank you for pointing that out and providing the extended clip. I found that one particularly difficult to watch. I'm sure there were (are) many real life abusive teachers (*ss h*les) like this one. If the intent is to permanently psychologically damage a child, this is an excellent example of how to go about doing that sad.gif

  


 
 

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 5:41 PM 



Reminds me of a couple of b******s I came across in my time.I always reckoned PE staff were like that because most couldn't hold a conversation with words over two syllables in the atmosphere of the masters' common room. but on their own territory they were 'kings' .

 
 
HH

Hand caning in an Irish school

March 6 2013, 6:10 PM 

Here is yet another unidentified movie clip. It shows a "mass caning" of an entire classroom. It appears to be a state school in Ireland judging by the Map of Ireland prominently displayed in the background. Also, the that SCP was delivered by caning the hands appears to be standard procedure at the time. In contrast, religious schools (Christian Brothers, etc) had an affinity toward the "leather", or strap. Again, if you recognize the source of this snippet, please do say... the clip is here

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 6 2013, 8:13 PM 

I think it is The Rockingham Shoot but I have never actually seen it before.

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 7 2013, 3:00 AM 

Hi Dean,

Checking all my usual sources, this one seems to be extremely rare to find now. I am somewhat at a loss how you were able to identify the clip and never having seen it? At any rate, if that is the case, then I feel somewhat vindicated in contributing at least one tidbit new to you. You seem to be able to identify most everything with stunning accuracy. Should career change necessitate, would you perhaps consider the position of "forensic CP cinematographer"?


 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 7 2013, 6:26 AM 

Checking all my usual sources, this one seems to be extremely rare to find now. I am somewhat at a loss how you were able to identify the clip and never having seen it?

I've been trying to collect clips - or where possible, entire episodes of TV shows or movies - for quite a while. My interest is primarily historical - I believe fiction often gives an insight into what was really going on in a time and place, sometimes more accurately than many non-fiction sources. I've managed to find quite a lot of things, but I've also managed to collect, over the years, titles of episodes of TV shows, or titles of movies, or in some cases documentaries that have scenes of corporal punishment, and I then try and find them. There are also some things I remember seeing in my own childhood that I try to track down as well.

In this case, at some point - and I honestly can't remember where or when - somebody mentioned The Rockingham Shoot as something that contained a corporal punishment scene, and I've had that name resting somewhere in my memory ever since. Watching the clip - the teacher actually mentions 'the Rockingham shoot' ("Seems not much was learned from the Rockingham shoot"), so that clicked for me. Searching online I found the synopsis I shared which seems to match:

County Roscommon in the 1950s. A fiercely nationalistic schoolteacher beats his pupils and subjects them to rigorous Gaelic spelling tests when they play hookey to work for the "English" aristocracy at Rockingham Palace during a pheasant shoot.

As you said, it seems to be an Irish school, and the children are being punished because they have done poorly on a test, which the teacher seems to blame on the fact that they didn't learn anything at the Rockingham shoot. It would be really surprising if it's not it.

At any rate, if that is the case, then I feel somewhat vindicated in contributing at least one tidbit new to you. You seem to be able to identify most everything with stunning accuracy. Should career change necessitate, would you perhaps consider the position of "forensic CP cinematographer"?

Actually, there's quite a lot I haven't seen out there - as I've said, I am stumped by the scene involving the Nun that you shared, and the one Dereks has shared as well. I have quite a lot and I've shared quite a lot of what I have over the years (although I still have some more to share when time permits), but that makes new 'discoveries' all the more satisfying.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 7 2013, 10:27 AM 

As I am working my way through Grange Hill, I've encountered a new - to me - corporal punishment reference.

This one is from 1985 and a little context may help. At this stage, Grange Hill has just recently been amalgamated with its two 'rival schools' from the earlier series (Brookdale and Rodney Bennett) to form a new school under the Grange Hill name. The new school is having to integrate staff, pupils and differing policies (including on school uniform).

The teacher in this scene is Mr Bronson - who came from one of the other schools and becomes the combined Grange Hill's Deputy Head. Mr Bronson is presented in the series as a complete martinet, very, very strong on discipline - and, at times, a complete and utter b-----d. He could be vindictive, and vicious with a student he did not like, but there were also occasions where he showed that he generally did have the best interests of his students at heart sometimes. The actor who played him, Michael Sheard, is fairly well known for repeatedly playing Hitler in TV series and movies throughout his career - and he was deliberately selected for this role on Grange Hill, which may also say something about the way they wanted the character to appear.

The girl in the scene, Annette, is one of those seen in a previous upload of Grange Hill material being threatened with the horrible punishment of having to change for PE with the boys - she was more easily intimidated by authority when she was younger.

Here's the clip.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 7 2013, 10:51 AM 

Thank you for the clips from The Big Wish. Interesting they show the boys caned on the bottom rather than the hand, as also portrayed in Fatty Finn (1980). I do not believe that was approved practice in state schools in any Australian state, but I do not know. It was however not unusual in NSW in the 1960s.

It depends on the period to some extent - at the time Fatty Finn is set, regulations in New South Wales state schools did not set any rules on where a cane should be used, and caning on the bottom was perfectly within regulations - the regulation that limited corporal punishment in state schools in New South Wales to the hand came in sometime after World War II, but, as you say, it was not always followed.

By the time, The Big Wish is set, the regulations in New South Wales did expressly limit caning on the hand, but it's never made entirely clear where The Big Wish is set - it doesn't really matter for the story. It looks to me like it was filmed in Sydney, but that means very little - I was recently rewatching Fighting Back (a film with a particularly interesting corporal punishment scene, which is definitely set in Victoria, and noticed some obvious signs it was filmed in New South Wales, I'd missed before).

In the later period when corporal punishment was still in use in state schools in Australia (the 1970s through to the 1990s), Victoria only officially allowed the strap on the hand (for boys only), Western Australia and New South Wales only allowed the cane on the hand (for both sexes in primary school, and girls only in secondary school, although New South Wales removed the latter restriction right near the end when it reintroduced the cane after a temporary abolition), Tasmania allowed both the strap and the cane (for boys and girls, but its use for girls was so strongly discouraged that every incident had to be immediately reported to the head of the Department of Education) only on the hand. All of these officially restricted corporal punishment in state schools to the hands.

But that leaves Queensland and South Australia - neither of these states had rules that said only the hands could be punished and punishment on the bottom was fully within regulations. In both states, punishment on the hands seems to have been more normal, but there was no rule that said that had to happen.

(Note - above regulations apply to government schools - not private schools - and it is well known that they were not always followed - provided no complaint was made by a parent or a colleague, a teacher could act with relative impunity).

 
 
HH

Controversy at St. George School / Suffolk

March 7 2013, 4:36 PM 

Here's a snippet that begins with a school caning scene. This is an apparent lead-in to the news story that follows: the matter surrounds the early 1980's controversy of Derek Slade, HM of St. George's School in Suffolk as presented in this thread by "Scotty the occassional poster".

 

See the clip here

(This segment is shown under Fair Use Doctrines for Educational and Non-commercial Use, and is the property of the original copyright holder)


 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 7 2013, 8:47 PM 


 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 8 2013, 12:36 PM 

Hi Dean

Thank you for your reply and the clarifications re the regulations in various Australian states.

One other film with a bend over caning scene is Smiley (1956), presumably set in the 1950s in rural Queensland or NSW.

American Way has various relevant links, including one to the extract in this post: http://www.network54.com/Forum/198833/message/1339647897/Smiley+1956

Hi HH

Thank you very much for the extracts you have found.

 
 
HH

Another School Paddling clip

March 8 2013, 4:57 PM 

Here is yet another unidentified snippet showing a senior student taking 5 swats. The pupil (a "Mr. Dalton") is well dressed making me think this is set in a private/independent school? Apparently, "trying to get yourself thrown out of this school" just isn't going to work here.

KK and hcj, take note this paddle has the holes in it! Dean, maybe you can work your magic on this one if you've seen it? Also, thank you to Oliver and prof.n for your prior comments.

The clip is here. Once again, not knowing the source, "This segment is shown under Fair Use Doctrines for Educational and Non-commercial Use, and is the property of the original copyright holder"

 


 
 
HH

1979 News Clip on upcoming Sweden PCP ban

March 8 2013, 7:20 PM 

Here is an interesting clip from a Channel-4 news "documentary" on the impending PCP ban in Sweden. Before interviewing a mother entering a store with her child, the intro to this very short 1979 news clip begins with three snippets showing:
1) a typical parental over-the-knee smack on the bum
2) a boy being slapped in the face, and
3) a parent slamming down a plate in front of their toddler, spilling a glass of milk in the process, and then pounding their fist on the table (warning, these are very short but may be disturbing to some viewers). The clip is here

As Another Lurker has pointed out in this post, "the regulars all have their little set pieces which they trot out whenever the opportunity presents itself" Well I'm going to be guilty-as-charged of this as well! happy.gif I can't let this one go without making a few comments on it.

Everyone seems to claim that Sweden was the first to ban PCP in 1979, but this not true to my way of looking at things and it is simply a game of legal semantics. Law and Regulation work differently in countries. For example, Austria banned PCP two years ahead of Sweden, in 1977, and is the real first PCP ban country. From the "Global Initiative" site: "Corporal punishment is prohibited in the home. The defence of reasonable punishment was removed from the law on assault in 1977." In 1989, this was added to the wording of the General Civil Code.

The same goes for Italy, where in 1996, "a Supreme Court judgment outlawed all violence in childrearing ... Since, according to the 1996 ruling, corporal punishment is no longer a legitimate method of discipline, it is not defensible under the right to correction". The govenrment never bothered to explicitly add an enactment since, in their opinion, the Supreme Court has already said it's illegal so there's no need to repeat it. We have the same in Canada in SCP: the Supreme Court ruled it illegal in 2004, so some provinces never amended their Education Acts to explicitly reflect this. Why bother, the Court already outlawed it, so it's redundant. That's my point and it goes to Austria preceding Sweden.

So why is Austria ignored and Sweden touted as the first to ban? because "look how well it's turning out by banning". I claim the Austrian one as first, and this is the dirty secret the anti-CPers want to keep hidden. All of the problems they link to exposure to CP, from alcoholism/drug abuse, mental illness, youth violence, bullying rates in schools and crime rates (as I have written about) have become seriously acute since the bans (some per-capita measures are four times worse than the CP-alllowed countries). The promised "kinder and gentler" nation has emphatically become the opposite. But enough about that...

Where I have a real bee-in-the-bonnet (and A_L this is where I trot it out at every opportunity!) is the way this was portrayed with the three opening snippets above. The OTK bum smacking is to most parents who use CP at home, normal standard practice and procedure. However, striking children in the face (or punching, kicking, shoving, pushing, or throwing things at them) as in snippet-2 or parental temper tantrums slamming plates in front of their kids and slamming fists on the table have absolutely nothing to do with tempered and judiscious CP. It also has nothing do to with a genuine and loving concern for the child's improvement and wellfare.

It's obvious that these things are intentionally added and confused into the mix to obtain the "desired" response of the viewer. Thus, I have to toss this on the propaganda pile, and not in the informative unbiased information pile. sad.gif

 


 
 

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 8 2013, 9:14 PM 


Hi HH,

The clip is from 'Dead Poets society' and is actually I would say fairly realistic. The antique paddle is interesting . Obviously not a school paddle , it is trotted out as a typical paddle by the anti cp brigade every time. Now I have seen worse school paddles, but can't we be honest.? This is Hollywood.

Robin Williams toned down his usually manic comic approach in this successful period drama. In 1959, the Welton Academy is a staid but well-respected prep school where education is a pragmatic and rather dull affair. Several of the students, however, have their thoughts on the learning process (and life itself) changed when a new teacher comes to the school. John Keating (Williams) is an unconventional educator who tears chapters of his textbooks and asks his students to stand on their desks to see the world from a new angle. Keating introduces his students to poetry, and his free-thinking attitude and the liberating philosophies of the authors he introduces to his class have a profound effect on his students, especially Todd (Ethan Hawke), who would like to be a writer; Neil ( Robert Sean Leonard), who dreams of being an actor, despite the objections of his father; Knox (Josh Charles), a hopeless romantic; Steven (Allelon Ruggiero), an intellectual who learns to use his heart as well as his head; Charlie (Gale Hansen), who begins to lose his blasé attitude; unconventional Gerard (James Waterston); and practical Richard (Dylan Kussman). Keating urges his students to seize the day and live their lives boldly; but when this philosophy leads to an unexpected tragedy, headmaster Mr. Nolan (Norman Lloyd) fires Keating, and his students leap to his defense. Dead Poets Society was nominated for four Academy Awards, including Best Picture and Best Actor for Williams; it won one, for Tom Schulman's original screenplay.

'Synopsis from 'Rotten tomatoes'

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dead_poets_society/

 
 
hcj

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 8 2013, 10:08 PM 

HH commented: KK and hcj, take note this paddle has the holes in it!

Frankly, I cannot imagine the holes make any difference at all, especially when the paddle is applied over clothing with such a short swing.

An experiment I carried out some years ago with large and small holes in both a strap and a paddle-like implement left only a slight impression - even when applied directly to the skin - and not as significant as the marking caused by the edges of the implement.

I suspect holes are, and were, merely a decorative feature of a paddle designed to intimidate.

 
 

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 8 2013, 10:25 PM 



Hi hcj,

I'm also happy to join your small minority in being sceptical of the roles of 'holes' in paddles !!!!!!

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 9 2013, 1:23 AM 

Hi hcj and prof.n,

I'm of the same opinion on the paddle holes. I can't see any practical advantage to them, but I can see how, if they are large enough in diameter and used on bare skin (which admittedly should not be the case in any legitimate SCP today), there is a potential for increased bruising as flesh gets "sucked up" into them. So I would opine they're useless at best and a potential hazard at worst as demonstarted below.

There was a chastisement impelment since the Roman times which was a paddle ancestor. It consisted of a handle and a round paddle head on the end. The paddle had a one central circular hole, perhaps 1 -1 1.5" diameter in the center. The effects of this can be seen in the accompanying photo below. The buttock flesh being forced into the hole left serious and immediate bruising. The bruising is not where the hole itself is, but the surrounding flesh. It leaves a "ring" where the surrounding flesh is sucked though it. Below are the results of such an implement.

here 

 


 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 9 2013, 3:18 AM 

further to the above, it occurred to me the theory was proffered elsewhere, insofar as what these "holes" really pertained to here. I should add that the film clip that started this discussion shows a rather "homemade" piece .. the holes are roughly spaced. Further, they are too small to be of consequence. It is when they become larger in diameter, perhaps 1" plus, that the problem above becomes a factor. Theoretically, large enough, they will suck in light clothing/underclothing and may produce the same effect evevn on a clothed seat.

 
 
hcj

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 9 2013, 11:24 AM 

HH linked to a picture of injuries caused by a "ferula" and commented :

The bruising is not where the hole itself is, but the surrounding flesh.

I think your interpretation of these injuries may differ from mine. I believe they show exactly the point I was making; that the hole has little effect compared to the solid part of the implement and its edges - including the edge of the hole.

I don't think the flesh is "sucked" into the hole, it may be temporarily pushed upwards as a result of the compression of the surrounding tissue. Compare the marks caused by the alternative health treatment "cupping".

I think the majority of damage here is the result of a heavy implement with a relatively small contact area. Given that considerable force has apparently been used in this example, and the implement applied directly on the skin, the outline of the hole itself is not that distinct.

I would suggest that a similar implement without the hole would cause a mark that was not that different, with a light patch at its centre where blood has been forced away from the point of highest pressure towards the perimeter.

 
 
HH

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 9 2013, 1:57 PM 

Hi hcj, it occurs to me we may be talking about the same thing, just using different language. I look at this way, in the diagram below. Does this make sense to you?

[linked image]

 


 
 
hcj

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 9 2013, 2:30 PM 

Hi Harold! As this this discussion has drifted away from films, let's continue in the school paddle thread.

 
 
KK

Paddle holes

March 9 2013, 8:09 PM 

The discussion of paddle holes continues here (scroll down).

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 11 2013, 5:23 AM 

And one area of controversy was one story that some saw as presenting corporal punishment in schools in something of a positive light (it was being threatened against a bully who was the villain of the piece) at a time when much of the country was moving towards prohibition of corporal punishment, at least in the state schools.

.....

The Headmaster using the cane in this series is a long way from the sympathetic, caring man with a strap in the original Winners series, and the use of the punishment is much less deserved.

I've now edited and uploaded clips showing this particular part of the original Winners series - from the episode Top Kid.

It can be seen here:

Extracts from Top Kid.

Top Kid is intended to depict the life of a boy at a working class Christian Brothers school in Sydney, sometime around 1950 (between World War II (1945) and television coming to Australia (1956)).

I've rewatched The Big Wish and it was definitely filmed in Sydney (opening shots show the Centrepoint Tower/Sydney Tower) but whether it was set there is another question - if it was that Headmaster violated government policy on two separate issues (by caning on the bottom, and giving too many strokes).

If anyone is interested I see that there are clips from various episodes of Winners (1985) and More Winners (1990) at the Australian Screen website. Seehttp://aso.gov.au/title-search/?q=winners . One features a young Nicole Kidman.

I seem to recall scenes from Nicole Kidman's appearance in Winners being shared on this forum before during a discussion of girls' PE uniforms in Australian schools.

 
 

Another_Lurker

That Nicole Kidman reference.

March 11 2013, 6:01 AM 

Hi Dean Clarke,

You say above:

I seem to recall scenes from Nicole Kidman's appearance in Winners being shared on this forum before during a discussion of girls' PE uniforms in Australian schools.

Indeed they were, in the Unfair canings of girls thread, in the course of an intermittent discussion extending between October 2 2010, 11:43 AM and October 6 2010, 6:19 AM.

The relevant YouTube Link was provided by Rebecca, the thread originator. It was apparently originally given to her by an unnamed reader of this Forum.

 
 
American Way

Leaving Liverpool

March 11 2013, 7:00 AM 

The caning of females is not unfamiliar to readers of the estimable Forum but sometimes it is better to see it in context. Begin the video at 3:30 to see the part that has been shown here before.

http://youtu.be/pXtH3AvosRg


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 11 2013, 8:48 AM 

Hi American Way,

I know relatively little about YouTube. It is currently number 313 on my list of things to learn more about when I have time. happy.gif However unless my eyes are deceiving me the uploader of the 'full' version of 'Leaving of Liverpool part 2' that you link above has not edited it correctly. The 'letter box' wide screen format is set to the wrong aspect ratio and is distorting the picture by compressing it vertically.

Here is a link to a clip of the caning scene following the 'kitchen' incident (there is an even more disturbing scene involving the caning of a boy elsewhere in the film). This link was provided by contributor skoolcane in the thread Film Clip: The leaving of Liverpool

And here is a link you provided to yet another version of Christine Tremarco's caning, in the thread school-set films.

In my opinion both these have the aspect ratio correct and your latter link has the advantage over the skoolcane linked clip, in that it is available in 480p rather than 360p. Both these clips beat the wide screen version for accurate rendering of the scene, despite the latter's 720p HD version. High definition is completely pointless if people don't get the aspect ratio correct, and far too many people fall at this hurdle! I see some amazingly distorted TV pictures in houses I visit.

Oh, btw, I agree with you about the value of context, but with Youtube, if you do want people to watch from a particular time, just add

#t=99m99s

to the end of the URL, where 99 is the number of minutes and seconds you want to jump down the clip. It will then start to play from that point.

 
 

Another_Lurker

The other 'Leaving of Liverpool' caning

March 11 2013, 9:50 AM 

For completeness here is a clip of the severe caning of a boy from 'The Leaving of Liverpool Part 1', courtesy of Dean Clarke in the Tawse thread.

And here, courtesy of Prof.n in the same thread, is the full version of 'The Leaving of Liverpool Part 1', sadly from the same uploader as American Way's full Part 2 above, and hence having the same aspect ratio problem. Those wishing to see the caning of the boy in context may do so via this link, distortion and all! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 11 2013, 3:00 PM 

A_L You taught me something new about youtube. That may make you dangerous. "a new batch from the sisters of no mercy wink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I7-mqX3L_w#t=9m21s

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

March 12 2013, 7:07 AM 

Hi American Way,

That must be one of the quickest implementations on record of any technical stuff I've dealt with here. Well done!

There are a lot of little tricks that can be done with Youtube. I only know a very small sub-set that I've encountered when trying to solve various problems. Perhaps I ought to move it up my 'Find out more about' list. It is amazing the amount of stuff that is there now to be watched.

 
 
American Way

Brides of Christ

October 4 2013, 3:51 AM 

This was recently written about the Brides of Christ 1991.

A MINI-SERIES about the change of pace in 1960s Australia seen through the lives of a group of Catholic nuns (Brenda Fricker, Lisa Hensley) and their schoolgirl students (Naomi Watts, Kym Wilson), Brides of Christ was a telling drama that spoke to both the personal and the public. Would the ABC make it now? Would anyone?

I could pick a few girls in my class to play that scene. wink.gif I'm sure some people would like Miley Cyrus bent over a desk.

CLICK

Images of Naomi Watts in 1991. Who knew what a star she would become?

CLICK

A video that replicates my coed religion class. My classmates of mixed marriages always felt out of place and one does not have to wonder why? I mages of Naomi in 1991 TV show Bride of Christ. I have ever reason to believe girls were hit out of the sight of the boys after school. Talk to any girls at our reunions and they tell you nuns favored the boys perhaps out of resentment. The girls were discovering their bodies that the nuns had all but buried.

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Images of Naomi in 1991 TV show Bride of Christ.

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The episodes are now on you tube. The girls "getting the stick" as we called it is more understandable when seen in the context of the series.makes sense when you see more than a snippet.

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American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

October 9 2013, 11:47 PM 

There are a plethora of fetish oriented sites that flaunt nudity and skirt around the deeper psychological aspects of school corporal punishment. Another scene from a recent television series enters into this sensitive matter without sexploitation that I recently posted (Bored to Death). It's a delicate balance indeed. First, the girl must be of college age. Second, the scene has to be realistic for an adult to submit. Third, there can be no nudity while framing the target.

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About 45 seconds into trailer corporal punishment scene..

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Shorter preview. Without scene.

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Images of corporal punishment scenes.

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Images of Bored To Death.

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She gets the point without breaking out of character in sequence. She is begging for it.

What a brat!

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Top Video Quality Scene.

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American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

October 19 2013, 3:18 PM 

Homerun. 2003.

Does an ugly woman have a right to call someone's handwriting ugly?

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N.B. 8:39. Looks like we are going to have to send him to England.

The funniest scene from that film is of course my favorite.

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This unearthing is Beaver at his best. wink.gif

The attractive young dancing lady in my favorite portion of the film is Xiang Yun is shown here avoiding wardrobe malfunction.

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For those who enjoyed this may want to see the film in its totality void of quality issues ensued by using Part 1 and Part 2 option will find this video's quality better suited for viewing.

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Synopsis.

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American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

October 19 2013, 5:53 PM 

An addendum to the funny scene in the film are the kids practicing the steps. It must have taken a few takes for that sneaker to hit her teacher in the face. How many kids would love to kick a slipper at their teacher's face in said manner? What follows is a tear jerker.

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Bob Fosil

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

October 23 2013, 3:07 PM 

any updates on identifying dereks clip? Looks like a British film by the accents and the actors look ever so familiar but I can't figur it out. As dereks says it's a great build up!

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

October 24 2013, 2:09 AM 

Hello Bob Fosil,

I don't recall seeing that name before, so if the above is your first post here may I please extend a personal welcome to the Forum. I hope that you will find many other threads of interest and that your above contribution will be the first of many.

You ask:

Any updates on identifying Dereks clip?

Unlike 'Blood Red Roses' which was also highlighted in this thread by Dereks and where there was also some discussion in the heloo plz help thread, I do not think there has been any further information here on the YouTube clip you reference.

There may be a reason for this. I suspect that the original media concerned does not actually show any corporal punishment. By heading the clip 'Caning' the uploaded seems to have inferred from the dialogue that one or both pupils are caned. However this is not explicitly stated in the dialogue. It is merely said that 'an example will be made'. They could be expelled, put in detention or even given a good talking to! happy.gif

It is not uncommon on YouTube for producers of 'adult' CP media to put up 'teaser' clips which stop short of the actual CP. In this way they both avoid breaching YouTube standards and, presumably, drum up trade for the product they are selling. However the person who uploaded the clip in question to YouTube does not appear to be in that category. There is no URL shown and no link to click on to buy the full item, or any other indicator of commercial intent.

Further the uploader has uploaded several clips to YouTube which do show school corporal punishment. If this film or video actually showed the 'example' in the form of CP of some sort there seems no logical reason why the uploader would not have included it in the clip. As they haven't done so I think it is probably because it doesn't. sad.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Homerun. 2003

October 27 2013, 2:01 AM 

Traffic seems a little down in this estimable Forum. I have decided against a resumption of my 'Your Forum Needs You' visual campaign for the time being. Too much chance of upsetting a certain Middle School Assistant Principal, who described my previous effort as extremely aggressive. I am concerned that the interpretation may be that aggression = bullying = ....... Well let's just say a concomitant risk of a trip through cyberspace! sad.gif

However I feel justified in indulging in a rather frivolous and somewhat delayed post in which I will gently take issue with my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor American Way. He is well used to this by now, and I'm sure he won't mind! happy.gif

Hello American Way,

On October 19 2013 @ 3:18 PM in the thread above you commented at some length on the Singaporean film 'Homerun' from 2003. Unearthing this was indeed, as you yourself rightly noted, Beaver at his best. However I felt that it was rather uncalled for to ask regarding the lady teacher who canes young Beng Soon for irregularities in his homework:

Does an ugly woman have a right to call someone's handwriting ugly?


I agree that the lady concerned apparently possess a mean backhand with the cane!


However within the limits of what might be considered appropriate for a teacher she has clearly gone to some trouble with her appearance, as witness the slit skirt and the rather bright lipstick! It is not possible to see if she has on the desirable high heels, happy.gif but in any event Another_Lurker would be quite happy to find her officiating if he was summoned to the Singaporean equivalent of the cyber-space conference room, though he'd be a little apprehensive about that backhand! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

The actress concerned is the then 32 year old Patricia Mok, seen here in a 2012 publicity shot. Ugly? I don't really think so! happy.gif

The caning scene, and hopefully just the caning scene, may be viewed here.

If I'm honest (and Another_Lurker is ALWAYS honest wink.gif) the object of this whole post is merely to test if this method of playing just a snip out of the middle of a YouTube video works!

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

October 27 2013, 4:08 AM 

Corporal Punishment doesn't have to be always that serious in Korea.

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Another_Lurker

That non-serious video clip.

October 27 2013, 6:23 AM 

Thank you American Way,

That is so non-serious that it borders on the absurd! happy.gif Nonetheless I think we should bring it to the attention of Allaxa, who may not read this thread, as it does include close conjunctions of hands and a punitive implement. The fact that there is no actual contact does rather detract from the reality though! I trust you won't object if I cross-link it.

I wonder who actually watches what appears to be a quite enormous volume of South Korean High School soaps (if YouTube is anything to go by). Surely it can't be High School kids themselves as they apparently work even longer hours than Systems Programmers and must be too exhausted to watch TV. Not adults either presumably. Even the most avid fancier of teen drama would soon become fed up with being force-fed pretty girls in short skirts. And that's just the teachers, as for the students ........

I conclude that the audience can only be pre-High School children, who must have a pretty weird idea of what to expect by the time they get there! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 
American Way

One Tough Woman

October 27 2013, 6:46 PM 

One Tough Woman. She canes big boys A_L. This will get your mind off the slit skirts and looking for prettier pictures of that actress on line. That's my job. happy.gif

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Think Patricia Mok, and words like gangly, homely and loud come to mind.

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Another_Lurker

Re: One Tough Woman

November 1 2013, 8:14 AM 

I always have a list of posts that I intend to reply to when I get round to it. Onto that list had gone my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor American Way's above contribution.

He said with reference to the lady teacher in the videos he linked:

One Tough Woman. She canes big boys A_L. This will get your mind off the slit skirts and looking for prettier pictures of that actress on line. That's my job. happy.gif

A reference to a little disagreement we'd had about an actress in a previous SCP scene in a Singaporean film.

I was overjoyed to see that American Way seems to have overcome his recent posting problems tonight and I decided that a pictorial celebratory post should be made in honour of this. American Way derives much satisfaction from my little whimsies about the Cyberspace conference Room and the paddlings therein. It enables him to chide me frequently about my claimed predilection for chastisement by young lady teachers, and to generally assume the moral high ground! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

What better celebration therefore than to express a penchant for a Thai equivalent of the cyberspace conference room, operated by the formidable lady in his latest two videos. That would double his opportunities to take me to task, which I was sure he would enjoy! happy.gif

Formidable is the only word for the lady concerned. I couldn't follow the plot, not being a Thai speaker, but at one stage in one of the videos she appears to be caning one of her male colleagues dressed as a schoolboy. He looks terrified, and well he might!

I set to work with enthusiasm. The first picture was quickly off the stocks:


But then something very strange happened! I'd just started to edit a fourth frame grab showing a boy awaiting the lady's tender ministration. It was going to be one of another series of three pictures, and be captioned 'Ooo, yes please Miss!' in the same style as the previous series and the boy was going to have a little A_L arrowed tag. At that point an ex-colleague and fellow insomniac phoned me about a problem with his laptop. When I got back to the computer room I found this!


Weird or what? Another_Lurker doesn't frighten easily, but it was Halloween and I confess I felt it necessary to grab my trusty ice axe/hammer from it's spot in the corner by the computer and search the house. Nothing found though.

I forgot about the rest of the pictures and set to work trying to translate the mysterious message, so neatly encapsulated in the speech bubble by an unknown hand. Pretty tricky, because my ancient OCR program can scarcely cope with the English PDF files American Way comes up with, let alone Thai characters! That's why I leave that sort of stuff to my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor KK who is an OCR expert.

The best I can do is that Google Translate says it means something like:

Another_Lurker you be punished ???. Quickly into position or give you ???. Stand facing other ???. ??? arms on chest. Six hard strokes of cane for you.

Microsoft Translate more or less agrees - well about the last two phrases at least!

But Babylon says it is something to do with giving me six heavy sacks of cane sugar so I really can't be sure. Perhaps some supernatural agency has detected my sweet tooth and is trying to communicate about it.

If there are any Thai readers out there who can have a stab at translation I'd be most grateful for any comments. It's not every day that things like this happen, even to me!

Anyway, to finish off American Way's celebration, here's a video he'll like if he hasn't already seen it! Another formidable slim lady with glasses and a well developed caning arm! I don't think it is the same one. Anyway, I feel another cyberspace conference room moment coming on. Though I fear I could no longer hack having to stand on one leg on the chair afterwards. sad.gif And what on earth do they have to hold in their mouths?

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 1 2013, 12:53 PM 

A_L I'm sure this other lady caner has played parts where her beauty is accented and would be more to your liking. Unfortunately, she spares the girls from what I have found online so far. They take undue delight in the boys' fate and just for to that they are due a caning. I wonder if that same predisposition motivates the dragon lady. sad.gif I'll soon be the judge of that after I sample more videos. If so, she deserves an onscreen spanking in a suitable garb, perhaps gym or biker shorts. I'm sure we would not bereft of volunteers from our estimable Forum. wink.gif

http://youtu.be/yw1oVuBSOdw

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 1 2013, 2:01 PM 

I wouldn't throw dragon lady out of bed for chewing gum but I would tell her what to with that cane.

A more serious comment, the story references "Really Mean" so she probably is more severe than the norm but one is left to wonder how prevalent corporal punishment is still in practice unlike other stories based on less recent history.

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American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 1 2013, 4:02 PM 

As the story of the dragon lady unfolds there are occasions where the after effects of the caning as opposed to the moment of contact is shown. I she swiping the cane for dramatic effect or is she think its wear and tear? It's like removing a sword from a sheath.

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She has other tortures that she reserves for girls other than caning

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Having watched a few of these dramas they become a genre of their own. The mean teacher bringing discipline and order to her young charges. Her colleagues reprimanding her for her methods and a gradual realization that her classes are getting better results in that age group. Meanwhile, the teacher and the students begin to win each other's affection. It ends with sadness in parting with the students better prepared for life and her transformation.

Each culture has different standards. In one of the episode the heavy student standing and not getting to the bathroom in time and everyone laughing at him would not be likely shown here.

 
 

Another_Lurker

That 'Really Mean' series!

November 2 2013, 12:37 AM 

Hello American Way,

Good to see you back and posting successfully again. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the video I linked above and that it has led you on to new material.

You commented:

A_L I'm sure this other lady caner has played parts where her beauty is accented and would be more to your liking.

No, my allegiance is remaining with the lady illustrated in my November 1 2013, 8:14 AM post above. happy.gif The new contender may have youth on her side, but her modus operandi is a little too active and all-embracing! Bad enough to have to stand out in front of the class to be caned. To additionally have to mount a chair for even greater visibility, and then to be made to stand on one foot with arms outstretched, a book balanced on one's head and some dubious looking object gripped in one's teeth in addition to the corporal punishment is just a teeny bit excessive IMHO! sad.gif

And you also said:

Unfortunately, she spares the girls from what I have found online so far. They take undue delight in the boys' fate and just for to that they are due a caning. I wonder if that same predisposition motivates the dragon lady. sad.gif I'll soon be the judge of that after I sample more videos. If so, she deserves an onscreen spanking in a suitable garb, perhaps gym or biker shorts. I'm sure we would not bereft of volunteers from our estimable Forum. wink.gif

Hmm, I'm not sure that either gym or biker shorts are a popular garb for young ladies undergoing corporal punishment in Thailand! I think cycling shorts are more of a Malaysian thing. My very distinguished fellow contributor, Sill Lee Asso, whom I believe hailed from that part of the world, frequently advocated in the Forum that girls should be caned on cycle shorts with tunic lifted by Headmistress1. wink.gif The fashionable modern equivalent is apparently FBT shorts but some schools in Singapore and Malaya are said to have banned these for their pupils on account of their brevity2.

However, despite the fact that she would undoubtedly look most attractive in FBT shorts, if the cane wielding young Thai lady is herself to be corporeally punished for only using corporal punishment with boys then I vote that she be required to wear one of those beautiful white Ao Dai outfits as worn by the schoolgirls in the video you linked here and to take 8 whacks from the smiling lady teacher in said video. A most aesthetically delightful prospect! I'd happily join the queue to stand facing the blackboard myself for the sake of witnessing it! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

But alas 'tis not to be, for if you inspect this YouTube video you will see that on at least one occasion our young teacher does indeed administer CP to a girl, a smack on the bottom for initially refusing to participate in what I take to be a boy-girl reconciliation ritual, so there is no case to answer. sad.gif

I agree that the boy concerned gets a smack as well, and anyway one smack to a girl hardly equates to all the caning received by the boys over the extent of the series. We can only assume that she punishes the girls less because they are better behaved! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

Your November 1 2013, 4:02 PM post suggests that you understand what is happening in this (presumably for TV) 'Really Mean' series. Do you speak the language, or are you merely guessing at what is happening? For instance how do you know that the young caning lady's colleagues remonstrate with her about her methods?

1 & 2  Those wishing to acquaint themselves with the full lurid details to be found here regarding cycling shorts, FBT shorts, tunics lifted by Headmistresses and their respective roles in the corporal punishment of schoolgirls in Malaysia will have to Google the relevant topics for themselves. This post is already far too long to accommodate all those extra links! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 2 2013, 1:41 AM 

A_L this is my favorite real life school corporal punishment scene. It's too good to think it wasn't apart of a school drama. Wouldn't it be great if I could chase it down to its original source? The way the first boy was hit was what happened in my sophomore year where I caused a girl almost to be hit. The only difference would be the bending over posture. It would not bring a boy to tears but he would know he was hit for the rest of the day. A 60-year-old nun hitting a16-year-old boy in front of a mixed class in the mid-sixties was not an everyday event in the country but when you're living it you are not distant enough to look upon it with objectivity. The principal would roam the corridor and pop into the study periods where there was noise and no monitor.

I shared my second grade intercom getting the stick over the loud speaker with a woman one year younger than me. She related the story of a nun principal doing the same to five fifth graders for throwing snowballs and her using a paddle in a parochial school very close by and of course one year apart. They all came back crying. She had some understanding of why she would do it with no training or teacher aide or given the number of kids but didn't excuse her. Good for her. She now teaches psychology in a community college. I eagerly waited for her to tell me a story about a girlfriend being paddled without betraying my interests. I said none happen at my school and like my sister she said it was a threat and you took it seriously. Her theory is they wouldn't because the family would be more likely to intervene for they would not be corporally punished at home.

Would you please consider posting some of your favorite screen grabs with your magic?

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Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 19 2013, 10:53 AM 

The short extract here is from Nowhere Boy, a film portraying John Lennon in his teens.

According to this and other sources he was regularly caned at Quarry Bank Grammar School. He managed to "progress" from near the top of the A-stream to the bottom of the C-stream during his years there.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 20 2013, 11:28 AM 

Hello Oliver Sydney,

Thank you for taking the trouble to post the above clip. Am I imagining it, or have the facilities for playing videos from PhotoBucket improved somewhat? Either that or you are better at setting up their environment than I am, which is entirely possible!

For anyone who would like to see the whole of 'Nowhere Boy' without actually paying for it I suspect that YouTube may have the answer. Unfortunately at least two contributors appear to have uploaded the film in several parts and as the lengths of the segments are different but the names are similar it gets rather confusing.

Although we don't see the actual caning in the clip it appears that it was on the hands. Surprising I think for a boys only grammar school in the 1950s, but doubtless this was researched for the film. Or not, as the case may be.

John Lennon certainly seems to have had problems at school. There are several reports on the web about the discovery, and subsequent auction, of his detention records at Quarry Bank. Apparently on two occasions he got three detentions in one day! Here is one such report, from the 'Mail online'.

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 21 2013, 12:42 PM 

Hello Another Lurker

Thanks for your note. Nowhere Boy was recently shown here on late night TV, and I extracted the clip from that. The Photobucket process was remarkably smooth - I just dragged and dropped the MP4 to upload it. Then I copied the 'direct' link that Photobucket supplied into my post.

Hand caning does seem to have been far from rare in England. Note the rather strange and inexplicable mix in the Catford punishment book HH reported in this thread . My impression is that in most places it was wiser to stick to the rules, but as long as a punishment was reasonable just about anything went. That was certainly true in my state of NSW in the 1950s and 1960s.

As for Liverpool, this person claims that George Harrison's normally mild father punched a teacher who badly bruised George's wrist with a missed stroke of the cane.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 22 2013, 1:42 AM 

Hello Oliver Sydney,

At the present contribution rate you and I may have to toss a coin to decide which of us switches off the lights, happy.gif but for the time being I shall continue to uphold the great traditions of this estimable Forum, which I'm afraid means yet another interminable and excessively cross-referenced post by Another_Lurker. sad.gif

Your link to the George Harrison caning incident is an interesting one. In the course of the article the author says, with reference to the UK:

Caning, as it was called, could be anything from having the palms of your hands hit with a specially made leather strap (a tawse) or an actual stick that could be used to strike the student (guess where!).

In the case of Liverpool it seems that 'and more besides' should be added to that!

A very quick Google of school CP in Liverpool, including a site specific search on the excellent CorPun.Com site gives the following snippets and press reports:
  • In CorPun a 1964 'Today Magazine' report here says:

    The courts have little sympathy with parents who bring charges against teachers who have caned their children. Even when Liverpool magistrates fined headmaster John Gilchrist, of Ryebank School, £5 for caning a fourteen-year-old girl fourteen to sixteen times on both hands, Judge Laski allowed his appeal.

    According to the judge, parents must expect teachers to maintain discipline. And he did not think this particular punishment excessive.

  • In CorPun here: In a report on LEA CP policies it seems that there was unusually early interest in a CP ban in the area's schools, but this floundered in the face of opposition by Headteachers.

  • In CorPun a 1972 Times report here says that except in Inner London, Liverpool and Edinburgh Education Authorities were still wedded to beating.

  • In CorPun a 1981 Liverpool Echo report here says of CP:

    In Liverpool it is allowed for children over seven in 170 junior and 75 secondary schools. In the case of girls it has to be administered by a woman teacher, and in all cases details have to be entered in a punishment book.

    It is also allowed in extreme cases in the city's infants' schools, but can only be carried out by the head teacher.

  • Both Wikipedia here and CorPun (in a 1981 report from the Daily Mail) here mention the Litherland High School, a Liverpool state mixed secondary school where the slipper was the very frequently wielded official CP implement for boys. Girls were exempt from CP.

    And the Film Connection: This was the school which was portrayed in the film 'Birth of a Nation' which featured in this thread here, including a series of clips by my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor Dean Clarke in his foundation post. The teacher Geoff Figg in the film was based on actual teacher at Litherland Alan Corkish, who spilled the beans to STOPP on CP practices at the school, and who was a friend of my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor Prof.n during his time at Liverpool University.

  • In CorPun in an 'Anecdotes' database a reference for Anfield Comprehensive, a state school for boys in Liverpool says here:

    Modi operandi mentioned: Cane on buttocks, bending over; Cane on hands; Ruler on clothed buttocks, bending over, sometimes in public; Slipper/gym shoe on clothed buttocks, bending across desk, in public.

    and lists CP incidents mentioned by pupils.
On a lighter note: Newer readers of this estimable Forum may find that in browsing the extensive archive of some 2,872 threads they encounter posts by former contributor soooze who was a a Liverpool state school just prior to the abolition of school CP and who reports several severe canings by her brute of a headmaster, including a six of the best which split the skin in three places and left bruising for a month. Her experience should not be taken as typical of CP practices in Liverpool schools. Soooze had many things in common with former contributor Treesortees who reported being caned at an eminent Nottingham school for girls where as far as I know CP was never used. In fact Soooze and Treesortees were very closely related, so closely that they were one and the same, and neither of them was female!

 
 
Oliver Sydney

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

December 22 2013, 1:11 PM 

Hi Another Lurker

A very belated thanks for the extensive references from Corpun.

In CorPun a 1964 'Today Magazine' report here says:
The courts have little sympathy with parents who bring charges against teachers who have caned their children. Even when Liverpool magistrates fined headmaster John Gilchrist, of Ryebank School, £5 for caning a fourteen-year-old girl fourteen to sixteen times on both hands, Judge Laski allowed his appeal.
According to the judge, parents must expect teachers to maintain discipline. And he did not think this particular punishment excessive.

I wonder if the said judge had teenage children and was thinking of them when he brought down his verdict. Those teenagers in the 1950s and 1960s were pretty obnoxious happy.gif

Just an update on John Lennon. Two of his school 'detention sheets' sold for UKP 8500 each, over three times the expected amount.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-lennons-schoolboy-detention-sheets-2874497


 
 

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

December 22 2013, 8:49 PM 

I wonder if John ever got lines. If so the teacher who most probably ripped them up and threw them away must have regretted it, they would almost certainly have fetched a fortune at auction today.happy.gif

Regarding paying lots of money for signed Beatles stuff you need to be very careful. Apart from the fact that there are loads of fakes out there even stuff which appears to be authentic may not be quite as real as it seems. Increasingly they found signing autographs a chore and they were all adept at forging each other's signatures. So you might think you have the autographs of all four Beatles, but in reality only one or two of them may have signed them. When they were really hacked off with it they would get roadies Mal Evans and Neil Aspinal to sign them.

 
 
Goggle Box

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

April 15 2014, 7:56 AM 

Men of an alternative persuasion will be delighted to know that the film 'Bottoms Up' starring a man of an alternative persuasion, Jimmy Edwards, is now available on DVD.


 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

July 22 2014, 11:01 PM 

Grzeszny Zywot Franciszka Buly (1980

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A precocious imagination.

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American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

July 23 2014, 1:37 AM 

Sorry. Under precocious imagination in above link I meant to start the video here.

http://youtu.be/lUztXdpe90k?t=37m19s


 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 1 2014, 2:04 AM 

El general (1998) de John Boorman (El Despotricador Cinéfilo)

This film referenced here before. This is an extract from the John Boorman film called The General. Its based on a true story about a self styled Irish criminal based in Dublin who operated a highly successful gang of thieves in the 1980's. The extract explains his formative years and how he came to reject all forms of institutional structures having been mistreated as a young boy.

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American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 7 2014, 6:20 PM 

Die Vermessung der Welt 2012

Measuring the World

Caning scene is 30 seconds into the trailer.

http://vimeo.com/52990468

How realistic is the caning itself? The vimeo clip and has more on screen strokes than the youtube video. It's hard to fake when there are clear moments of impact between 35 to 37 seconds.

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Here is the youtube scene.

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More photos from the film.

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KK

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 7 2014, 9:35 PM 

There s something a little strange about the clip which needs frame by frame analysis to decipher. Whatever is happening, the victim is not receiving effective strokes. Only the middle section of the cane is in use. The cane is far too large and potentially far too severe for such a small boy.

[linked image]

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 7 2014, 10:47 PM 

KK. Would you say, perhaps because the boy moved, the cane tip came closer to the flesh on the last two? Obviously, it was, and rightly so given the actor's youth, in a manner that it was meant to spoil the rod and to spare the child or his bottom would be more than red. There was probably only incidental contact when he was swinging the cane between the visible strokes.

The class reaction would not occur. In my day (one year older than you) when you were sent more likely to the principal's office to "get the stick" was not an occasion for schadenfreude. I'm not sure if the expression "getting the stick" was an Irish nun import. The sticks were more like golf clubs with shafts of different thickness as in the penultimate link. For some reason I never thought of them as canes.

At the same time as I was hit with my class listening through the intercom I was teased mercilessly because of this commercial found in the last link. The tune became so catchy the boys would sing BUCKY BUCKY BEAVER when they passed by me and all because of my profound overbite. My life was never simple. sad.gif

CLICK

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Amanda

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 10 2014, 5:55 PM 

Don't know if anyone mentioned this before. In Chinese film Painted Faces (1988), sets in a Beijing Opera School, the teacher Master Yu spanks two students for stealing food from kitchen.
The clip (with English subtitles) can be found here:http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/S91dotGh3JE/

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 10 2014, 9:37 PM 

Hello Amanda,

The only Amandas I can find as contributors here were either way back in the ancient history of the Forum or during the halcyon days of our fun-pesters1 a few years ago.

It seems unlikely that you are either of those Amandas, so if your two recent contributions are your first here may I please say a personal welcome to the Forum. It certainly looks as though your knowledge of SCP videos will be an asset, as they are a topic frequently discussed here.

1Tbe term 'fun pester' is © Your Local Council 2009

 
 
Amanda Wang

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 11 2014, 12:27 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker,

Thanks for your kind welcome. Please excuse my bad English as I'm not a native speaker (I'm from China). I'm still fumbling my way around this forum, and may need some help. Like, how do I embed a website link into simple text? How to reply to a comment or quote a previous post? How to bold or change color of text? Is there a guide somewhere?

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

September 11 2014, 8:33 AM 

Hello Amanda Wang,

You certainly need have no fears about your English. It would not have occurred to me that you were other than a native English speaker.

The means by which you do most of the things you mention is HTML (and sometimes a little CSS). That is to say HyperText Markup Language and Cascading Style Sheets, two of the systems used to write web pages. You don't need to know either of these though, just a few simple methods using them. For most people the most complicated bit is where to find the < and > keys on their keyboard.

The first essential is to make sure that when you are on the posting page there is a tick (checkmark) in the little box below the Message Text Box with the title 'Enable formatted text (what's this?)'. There usually is by default, but if not you need to click in the little box to check it. This enables you to use HTML and CSS.

Initially have a look at this page. It covers some very simple HTML. It was written some time ago, and I will update some of it later as there are now better ways of doing some of the formatting covered. However the methods given there will all still work.

Unfortunately the Network54 posting interface is not totally compliant with either HTML or CSS standards, and it changes in a rather unpredictable fashion from time to time. That 'will still work' bit is therefore quite important. If by chance you know some HTML and CSS already, try it out. The CSS will need to be inline. But don't assume it will all work on Network 54. Check by using the 'Preview' button,

I will cover the things you have asked about that are not covered by the linked post on HTML later for you, some of them hopefully tonight. A great deal of information relative to formatting contributions can be found in the Computing Corner and Computing Corner 2 threads. The former is rather large! However the latter can still be scanned fairly quickly. It may be worthwhile for you to do so, as it includes some notes on making sure that you don't accidently lose contributions when posting them. This may be helpful when you start to do contributions including HTML as they are more complicated to re-enter easily from memory.

 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 10 2014, 11:36 PM 

Konketsuji Rika: Hamagure komoriuta (1973)

Juvenile's Lullaby.

Trailer.

CLICK

Corporal punishment scene at 6:36. Was that worse than what it looked?

CLICK

In a traditional scholastic caning position. They learning how to behave like good girls and not to commit violence. What a way to teach a lesson? sad.gif

CLICK

 
 
hcj

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 11 2014, 10:04 AM 

American Way asked: Was that worse than what it looked?

The Kendo martial arts sword shown, known as “shinai” in Japanese, is 114 to 120 cm long, around 25 mm in diameter and weighs 400 to 500 grams depending on the age of the competitor.

The four bamboo slats that form the shaft are tied together and are specifically designed to reduce the force of impact of a blow.

When the target is hit, the four slats flex and compact together, spreading the force of the blow over a longer period of time. This significantly reduces the harm it can cause to a target, leaving only a bruise even when wielded by the strongest users.


 
 
American Way

Re: School Corporal Punishment in Films

November 11 2014, 12:16 PM 

Thank you hcj. That's exactly as I thought, it wasn't borstal even though it was a reform school. Where better than to learn how to be a good girl and learn anger management? happy.gif

 
 
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