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Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 19 2003 at 12:36 PM
 

 
Hi. I'm from Malaysia, and I'd like to share a bit about school corporal punishments in Malaysia.

In Malaysia, there are 3 types of primary school: Malay school, Chinese school and Indian school and also National Secondary schools.

I'm from a chinese primary school, and in chinese schools, the teachers use the cane a lot more than Malay schools and Indian schools. In primary school, caning maybe administered by any teacher, and caning is the main form of punishment (even for small mistakes), so almost every student will have been caned in their primary school life. The teachers don't care whether the student is a boy or girl, as long as they dd something wrong (like not doing their homework, being talkative in class etc). Canings are mostly administered on the hand, although students (both boys and girls) are sometimes caned on their bottom, when they commit serious offences, repetitively do the same mistakes, or refuse to show their hand before their caning is finished (like when the teacher decides to give him/her 8 strokes, and after the 4th stroke, if the student refuses to show his/her hand due to the pain, the teacher will cane the student on the bottom). And yes, in primary school, canings are administered in front of the class.

In secondary schools, caning is also used, but only for serious offences or repetitive offences. In secondary schools, caning (no matter boys or girls) is done privately in the principal's room, by the principal (or someone else appointed). In secondary schools, mostly it is boys who get caned. It will be extremely embarrasing if a girl is caned in her secondary school years. In secondary schools, canings of boys are done on the bottom, while for girls, most of the time, it will be on their hands, but sometimes on their bottoms too. I myself did experience canings on the bottom, which is not only devastatingly painful, but also extremely humiliating, when the news is spread about. News will spread around because if you're sent by the teacher to see the principal to receive canings, the teacher will ask another student to witness the event.

In Malaysia, canings on the bottom of students are done on their school uniform. We are never caned on our bare behinds. However, for girls, sometimes we are asked by our teachers to remove the shorts which we wear under our school pinafore (most of the girls will wear bike shorts, or other types of shorts under their school pinafore to provide comfort and security), because our school pinafore material is thick. We can't refuse it, if we refuse, the teacher will either pull the shorts down herself or ask another girl to pull it down. I think the teachers feel that canings on the pinafore + bike shorts + knickers will be ineffective, but for me, even with my pinafore, bike shorts and knickers on, I still feel it is extremely painful. I can't imagine if was caned with the bike shorts removed. However, I do witness a few events of my friends being asked to remove their bike shorts, and after the caning, they are sobbing like hell.

And yes, in Malaysia, spanking on the bottoms are not done, because it can be considered a sort of sexual harrassment.

That's about my experiences in school corporal punishment in Malaysia. Do give your views. Thanks!

Lee Sze

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Roger

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 19 2003, 10:04 PM 

Dear Lee Sze,

Thank you so much for your amazingly comprehensive account of corporal punishment in Malaysian schools. You are, I believe, our first contributor from South East Asia.

Could you possibly explain further the notion that spankings may be considered sexual harassment, whereas the pulling down of a girl’s bicycle shorts by a teacher before a caning is administered appears to be acceptable practice?

 
 
Robin (not Peverett)

Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 7:01 AM 

Dear Lee Sze,

Yours is a really super post and so nicely written. Is English your first language?

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 8:05 AM 

There is nothing more suspicious that a spankophile claiming to be from Malaysia and, indeed, this contributor's English is so good that his/her alleged Malaysian origins appear even more doubtful than might otherwise be the case.

However, it is my extremely pleasant duty to inform the board that Lau Lee Sze is a fluent speaker of a Malaysian language and that he/she contributes to a Malaysian bulletin board every posting upon which is written in that language.

I strongly suspect therefore that this contributor may be 100% genuine.

Now, if readers will excuse me, I have to go away and lie down in a darkened room until the shock wears off.

 
 

Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 8:21 AM 

Hi. Thanks for your compliments. Actually, English is just my second language; chinese is my first language, but in Malaysia, we put quite a lot of emphasis on English too.

Actually, I also don't really know how to answer Roger's question. Well, I think spanking is considered a type of sexual harassment, because the teacher is using his/her hand to hit the boy's/girl's bottom, which means there is some 'contact'. Maybe it can be considered a type of molest?

As for the teacher pulling down the girl's bike shorts before caning, I must say it is seldomly done, only when the girl is really naughty, bad, or always commit the same mistakes. Until now, I only saw female teachers doing so, I never saw male teachers doing so. If male teachers were to cane girl students, normally they will just cane them as they are, to prevent being sued for sexual harassment. Even if they really want to pull down the girl's bike shorts, he will ask other girl students to pull them down. I think it isn't considered a sexual harassment because it is females who pull down the girl's bike shorts, not males.

Besides that, when the girl pull down her bike shorts, or is being pulled down by the teacher/another girl, it is just being pulled down. It is not that her skirt will be lifted, her bike shorts pulled down (which reveals her knickers), then her skirt being put back again. Instead, if the girl pulled down her bike shorts herself, she will bent down a little, put her hand under her skirt (pinafore), pull down her bike shorts and put it on the table, without revealing any 'sensitive' parts or clothings of her body. That's why I don't think it is considered a sexual harrassment. But I do think if I'm the one who is asked to pull down my bike shorts, I'll be extremely embarassed. If really told to do so, I'll just commit and pull it down, because the consequences of not commiting are your bike shorts being pulled down by others, being caned heavier and more times. So far, everytime I saw girls whose bike shorts are being pulled down and caned, they will be crying for the whole day.

Any comments?

Cheers,
Lee Sze

 
 

Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 8:37 AM 

Hi C. Nickel. I'm actually quite sad that you alleged me of not being a Malaysian.

Yes, I know my English is quite good.. but that doesn't mean that I'm not a Malaysian. Besides English, I also speak Chinese and Malay. English is more widely used here than u all know, especially among the chinese and indian communities here. In fact, we read english newspapers, study a lot of things in english too.

I must admit that I have a lot of fond memories towards school canings. In the past, I really hate school canings, and I'm very afraid when I know I'm going to be caned. It's so embarassing for girls to be caned, especially when I'm a top student in class. But as time passed, and I no longer receive the canes anymore, I started to miss them. It's quite strange isn't it? And I must admit that I am a frequent masturbater. In fact, I started to masturbate after my first caning in primary school. That morning, I was caned on my hand, and the whole day, I felt very 'strange', because the caning was so painful and I felt so embarrased at school. When I slept in the night, I don't know how (maybe I was dreaming), when I woke up, I was actually touching my clitoris, and it felt so nice. Since then, I started to masturbate and have fond memories of masturbation and caning.

Please, I'm really from Malaysia... And don't doubt me about it!

Lee Sze

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 8:51 AM 

Hello Lee Sze,

If your English were just a little better, you'd realise that I was not doubting your Malaysian origins.

On the contrary, I was saying that I thought you entirely genuine .

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 9:00 AM 

I should add that I use the expression 'entirely genuine' to refer only to nationality and geographic origin.

In the original postings, it wasn't clear whether Lee Sze was writing as a male or a female, although it's now clear that Lee Sze writes as a female (surprise! surprise!)

As ever, gender must be taken on trust - or not, as the case may be.

 
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 2:43 PM 

Hi, why is it so strange for me to be a girl??

Lee Sze

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

June 20 2003, 4:03 PM 

Mainly because you have a penis and two testicles.

 
 
Karen

Keep posting, Lee Sze!

June 20 2003, 7:50 PM 

Hello, Lee Sze!

I do hope that you are not discouraged by the comments of C. Nickel who is a highly valued contributor to this forum, but can, on occasion, be a little cynical.

Would you tell us in which years you were caned at school? There are a few press cuttings about Malaysia at corpun.com on the subject of the possible re-introduction of corporal punishment in its schools. Has it, in fact, been re-introduced?

 
 
Not an Anonymous Donation

Re: Keep posting, Lee Sze!

June 20 2003, 10:40 PM 

I have learnt a great deal from the messages of Lee Sze and her command of English is better than many of the stupid BASTARD contributors for whom it is their native language.

 
 
James Stephenson

Going home

June 22 2003, 11:09 AM 

Dear Lee Sze,

Thank you for a fascinating insight into your country. I was wondering, when corporal punishment was widely used in the UK, most schoolchildren would not tell their parents when they'd been caned or belted either because they were ashamed or because they didn't want to risk getting more punishment at home. I get the impression that family is much more important in countries like Malysia and I wonder whether children feel any kind of obligation to own up to their parents at such times? How do parents view their sons or daughters having been caned?

James

 
 
squirrel

now just a moment...

June 22 2003, 10:31 PM 

Is it really entirely acceptable for people to come on here from the colonies and start banging on about their clitoris? I for one don't wish to hear about such things.

 
 
Not an Anonymous Donation

Re: now just a moment...

June 23 2003, 3:28 PM 

I agree with the encyclopaedic squirrel. This is not a clit forum. People who want that sort of stuff should go to the F/F Lesbianating Group at Yahoo.

Only a few months ago we had some foul fellow who thought that our happy circle was a minge and green knickers forum and look what happened to him!

Keep posting, squirrel! Together we shall rid this forum of all that is base and BASTARD.

Lee Sze: Would you please tell us what colour knickers you were wearing when you were caned at school?

 
 
47david

Malaysia

June 23 2003, 7:43 PM 

Actually what I have noticed is that our charming young correspondent from Malaysia said she is from a primary school. Now it may be that the age range of primary schools is different from those in the UK, but even so she seems to use extremely mature language for a primary school pupil. Emotionally mature too in being able to speak so tellingly about her feelings on being beaten. Anyway I think an international flavour is a good thing - I think those of us in the UK where school spankings have been abolished should share our experiences with those from other countries where CP is still used - Swaziland anyone? There was a very telling programme on Channel 4 a couple of years back which had scenes in which schoolgirls were caned on the bottom as a matter of course - did anyone else see it?

 
 
Darwinian Man

Re: Malaysia

June 23 2003, 8:50 PM 

I myself, personally myself, did not see the programme myself. (I have just been reading ‘The Eamonn Andrews Show’ again.) For those who are members of the rather dubious Yahoo Group, JCP-Female, there are photographs of the black bottom canings to which 47David refers.

 
 
Gas Mask Wearer

Black Bottoms

June 23 2003, 10:11 PM 

Black bums! I love them! I once had a short liaison with a seventeen year old black girl called Josenthia. She looked like that woman from the 70’s sit-com called something like Bugger your Neighbour. She used to wear pure white cotton knickers and seeing them against the contrast of her shiny black skin was more than a man could stand. She loved to be spanked and we would act out scenes from The Memoirs of Dolly Morton. She would take twelve of the cane on her black, black arse without a murmur. God, it’s hot in here.

She eventually went off to make piccaninnies as they do, and I miss her.

 
 
Gas Mask Wearer

Re: Black Bottoms

June 24 2003, 10:19 PM 

A good bit from The Memoirs of Dolly Morton can be found at


http://spankmemories.com/free/samples/books/bibooks.htm

 
 

Sorry for the late reply...

June 27 2003, 10:14 AM 

Hi. My last caning was last year, when I was in Form 3.

According to the Ministry's directive, there are a few rules about caning, among them are:

1. Caning can only be done on boy students
2. Caning must be done privately and properly recorded
3. The student can only be caned on his hand or his bottom with his clothings on
4. Canings can only be given by principals or someone authorised

Eventhough the ruling says like this, not every school follows it. In primary schools, caning has always been something normal, like I said in my first post. It's a common sight for boy and girls to be caned.

In secondary schools, girls are less likely to be caned. Most of the time, it is boys who are caned. But caning on girls still happen occasionally.

In Malaysia, eventhough we as girls should not be caned, when we are caned, we never tell our parents about it or report to the police about it. That's because it's very embarassing to be caned, and our parents will normally side the teachers, and give us another few more strokes. So, caning is still normal and never cease in Malaysia.

Well, I think the posts that Karen saw in Corpun is about the reintroduction of public caning, because many teachers actually hope that public caning is revived. But until now, public caning in secondary schools is still not administered, while public caning in primary schools has never ceased.

That's all!

Lee Sze

 
 

Re: Going home

June 27 2003, 10:21 AM 

Hi James. Actually, there are 2 types of families in Malaysia (like everywhere else): the modern type and conservative type.

In modern families, most parents pamper their kids, and if the kids complain that they have been caned, the parents will always side their children, eventhough they are really wrong. Some even go to the extent of going to school and beat the teacher who caned his/her children.

Children from modern families, on the other hand, almost never tell their children about being caned in school. If they tell, most likely they will be punished more.

I myself come from the conservative families. I never told my parents that I was caned. Once in my primary school years, my mother discovered that my hands were red and showed signs of caning, when I told her that I was punished at school for not doing my homework, I was caned again by my mother... So for me, it's really not a good idea to tell my parents about my canings in school to avoid further punishmenet!

Lee Sze

 
 

Re: Re: now just a moment...

June 27 2003, 10:27 AM 

Hi. Actually I am quite surprised about why you suddenly ask me about the colour of the knickers I wore when I was caned at school.

Normally, I wear white knickers, sometimes pale pink, pale cyan or pale blue colour. And the bike shorts that I wear are normally black, but sometimes, I wear red and also dark blue bike shorts.

But I don't think the colour of my knickers matter, because we are never caned with just our knickers on. The most we can get is just our bike shorts pulled down!

Lee Sze

 
 

I'm in secondary school...

June 27 2003, 10:30 AM 

Hi David47. I'm currently still studying in secondary school, in Form 4. I never said I am still in primary school! And here in Malaysia, the English of the people (especially Chineses) are very good already at this age!

And Gas Mask Wearer, I have to say that I'm not black. I'm not a Malay, I'm a Chinese.

Bye!

Lee Sze

 
 
Proud Member

Re: I'm in secondary school...

June 27 2003, 7:01 PM 

Dear Lee Sze,

Could you possibly explain the term ‘Form 4’? Until a few years ago in England the expression ‘fourth year’ or ‘fourth form’ would indicate that a pupil therein was aged fourteen to fifteen. Nowadays, however, this age group is known as ‘year ten’.

If you are of such an age, may I congratulate you on your use of our language. We have many fifteen-year-olds in this country who are unable to write their name the same twice.


 
 
Gillian

Re: Re: Re: now just a moment...

June 27 2003, 8:56 PM 

Dear, dear Lee Sze,

Not an Anonymous Donation is a crass oaf. He is, however, one of our most distinguished writers and there is irony in his message.

Many of our contributors are obsessed with the colour of knickers. The messages from Fran of Wembley, which are considered essential reading, are of great interest to compulsive masturbators.

Hugs and fuggs,

Gillian

 
 
Meilong

Caning in Malaysia

June 28 2003, 4:51 AM 

The Straits Times recently reported:

Education Minister Tan Sri Musa Mohamad said he was looking into the possibility of empowering teachers with the disciplinary powers of school heads.

At present, the power to cane students is with the school head. Discipline teachers can also cane students provided they get the written consent of the school head.

This is provided for in the Education Regulations (School Discipline). The regulations also forbid the caning of girls.


Note the last sentence.

Would Ms Sze like to comment? Did she (if she is a she) get caned in spite of the regulations forbidding the caning of girls?

As a Chinese (educated in England)and familiar with Malaysia, I take Ms Sze's letter with a huge pinch of Chinese salt.

If talking about spanking and caning turns you on then let her letters do so, but do not think for a moment that they are the work of a genuine Malay, or a normal or truthful girl.



 
 
Seth

But Gas Mask ...

June 28 2003, 8:11 AM 

The trouble with a black bottom is the lack of visual satisfaction one gets when whacking a white bottom. No weals. Well, you can feel the corrugations in the hot flesh but it's not the same.

Is that the reason why our Empire Builders were over-zealous caners of black people?

 
 
Gas Mask Wearer

RE: In Secondary School;/But Gas Mask...

June 28 2003, 2:24 PM 

Silly Sze! (How the hell do you pronounce a name like that? Size? Sass? Sex? Parnell?)

I know you don’t have a black bum. Not many Chinese people do. I often fantasise about small, neat, cheeky yellow bums. I hope to god you’re not fourteen. Although on second thoughts, here’s a bit of Tennyson I learnt at a school similar to George’s St. Pant’s.

“When she told me she was just fourteen
I was twice as keen”.

Seth - You’re even more of pervert than I am. Looking forward to reading your posts on British Spank.

 
 
C. Nickel

Re: RE: In Secondary School;/But Gas Mask...

June 29 2003, 7:07 AM 

I assume the name is pronounced 'lowly size' but readers are reminded that a small penis is still a penis.

Please be realistic, gentlemen - you have more chance of finding the Holy Grail at a local car boot sale than you have of finding a Malaysian schoolgirl who (a) is into caning and (b) has navigated her way to this site and (c) is prepared to give you chapter and verse re the contents of her knicker drawer.

It's time to wake up and smell the testosterone.

 
 

what is the length & the width of the cane use,?

June 30 2003, 4:06 PM 

Dear Miss LAU,can you tell me what is the length & the width of the cane that use on you.??& how many lashes you get the last caning.???

 
 
Brian of The Naze

Re: what is the length & the width of the cane use,?

June 30 2003, 11:26 PM 

Yes Miss Sze I would also like to know the asnwer to this question, its an intersting one. Do you also know alot of friends who have been caned like this? Do you know what boys PE is like?

 
 

How was the caning done.????

July 3 2003, 2:02 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,i am a singaporean,in sec 5,i have not seen a girl received a caning before.Can you tell me how is it done.??You tell us,your last caning is in last year,can you tell us why you got caned.?,What type of cane they use.?Must you bend down before caning.?I think you can remember quite clearly.!One more question is,is it very painful.?Can you take all the strokes in one go or jump up & dance around every time the cane land on the buttocks.?Lastly,are you able to sit down after the caning.?&For how long did the cane mark appeared,after the caning.?2 days.?or more.??

 
 

Still no reply.??

July 4 2003, 2:42 PM 

Dear Miss LAU,why no reply.??????we are still waiting for the answer.!!!!!!

 
 
Ron

Re: Still no reply??

July 7 2003, 12:44 AM 

Enter Lau Lee Sze into Google and examine the hits you get, then you won't be surprised at no reply.

 
 

Why still no answer.???

July 10 2003, 4:10 PM 

Dear MISS LAU,why still no answer.???A few more question,which state of MALAYSIA you study.??IS Your last caning is given by a female teacher .??Is it painful.??How many stokes of the cane did you received.??Is it painful.??Are you able to take all the stokes in 1 go or dance around when every stoke lands on the buttocks.??Lastly,how long does the pain & cane marks stay.??I THINK YOU CAN REMEMBER QUITE clearly...Do reply,thanks.!!!

 
 

Missing in action.??

July 30 2003, 4:22 PM 

Dear Miss LAU,seems like you are now"MISSING IN ACTION",no reply from you,no new story.By the way,since you got caned last year,have you change your behaviour.?Did you get caned,so far this year.?Don't be shy.!P/s reply.

 
 
man in a suitcase

CANING IN MALAYSIA

August 22 2003, 5:03 PM 

It's hardly surprising that the lady has got tired of replying. Several of you have insulted her, doubted her etc. Malaysia is part of the Commonwealth for God's sake, and whilst 'The Sun' might think this is an old-fashioned conecpt, it still exists, and learning English is important to young children in Asia. After all, how else can they understand what's being said on MTV?
I had a relationship with a Vietnamese lady many years ago, who was regularly beaten at home and in school, and her description matches almost exactly that which has been on these pages.
Scpeticisim (Skepticism for our N American readers who cannot cope with English English), is healthy, but cynicism is something else...

 
 

Re: CANING IN MALAYSIA

August 31 2003, 6:06 PM 

Hi. I'm sorry for my late reply. My modem broke down, so I hardly get a chance to go into the internet.

Yes, you're right. Actually, I feel very sad and insulted when many people accussed that I made up the stories, not a girl etc... Maybe at my age, I might seem over matured, but I must say that in real life, I'm a normal girl, with lots of friends, playing around happily. It's just that this is my 'private' feelings, which I dare to share here because nobody will know who am I here.

Mei Long is wrong, in fact, I doubt whether she herself is a chinese. Because if she's a chinese, she'll know that Lau is my sirname and not Sze. We chineses have our surname in front, not in the back.

To Veron, I'm from East Malaysia. My caning last year was administered by the principal. He is a male. The cane he uses (and most other teachers use) seems to be from a loop (the loop which we put near our waist and turn) made of cane, sawed, and then wrapped with a thin layer of masking tape. Last year, when he caned me, I was given 6 strokes with my pinafore, bike shorts and knickers on (nothing was removed). I was never asked to bend down. I just stand very near the principal's table, with my hand holding the edges of the table, while the principal caned me. It was extremely painful, and the sound produced was very loud, however, I still managed to take it in one go, almost sobbing after the caning. If not for my pinafore, which is made from quite thick material, and also an additional protection from my bike shorts, I think it'll be ever painful. The marks lasted for almost a week, and sored for almost a week.

Lee Sze

 
 
Roger

Re: Re: CANING IN MALAYSIA

August 31 2003, 6:21 PM 

Welcome back, Lee Sze!

I have added your name to the Friendly List.

 
 

Demerit points system.

September 2 2003, 1:26 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,i am very glad you have your computer repaired,i missed you alot.Can you tell me,do your school have the demreit point system.?I mean that,the caning you received,is it base on a few offence you commited ,you get a certain number of points,then your teacher will tell your headmistress about it & action taken will be a number of strokes of the cane,is it in this way.?Another question is,does you headmistress tell you before the caning,the number of strokes she intended to give you or she just ask you stand beside her table & started to cane you until she is happy with it.?Does you have a choices of the canes you going to get.?I mean the length & the width of the cane.Lastly,where you want received the caning,plams or on the bottom,where do you prefered.?

 
 

Another question.

September 2 2003, 1:35 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,very sorry,i left out 1 more question.After your last caning,i remember you said it is very painful,so after that 6 strokes of the cane,did it you changed to a good girl.?to prevent yourself getting another caning.?I hope so.!

 
 

Re: Another question.

September 3 2003, 5:24 PM 

Hi Veron. No, my school doesn't have the demerit system. However, some of my neighbouring schools do have this policy, like students who accumulated 25 demerit marks will be either caned a few strokes, asked to do social work, sent to counselling or have their parents seen.

My school just cane whenever they feel necessary. Last time, when the principal caned me (He - not she. Male teachers in our school can cane girl students too, because no direct contact have been done), he just told me that he is going to cane me, took out a bunch of canes and asked me to choose the one I want to use, then came over and caned me. He didn't tell me how many times he is going to cane me. Sometimes, the principal will just cane students without asking which cane to use, when for example, the principal is waiting at the schoolgate, and whoever entered the school late will be asked to show his/her palm, and then given 2 strokes.

About whether the caning which I received last year made me turn into a good girl, well, I have always been a nice girl. I have always been the top student in school. Last time, I was caned because I feel that it's not necessary to do so many exercises for a subject which I have mastered so much, for example, mathematics. I'm not the kind of student who smokes or fights in school. I'm a top student, quite obedient, polite, cheerful and very popular in the school. I'm also a senior prefect in my school and most teachers's pet. That's why I feel extremely embarrased and sad when I was caned. That's because news that a top student, what more a senior prefect being caned is quite a new incident in the school and it spreaded very fast. It has been the hot topic of the school. Many people came and asked me how was the caning like.

If I were given the chance to choose where to be caned (we don't have the choice), I'll choose to be caned on my bottom instead of my hand. The main reason is that, if you're caned on the bottom, your parents won't know that you have been caned. If you're caned on the hand, there is a higher possibility that they will see that your hand is bruised or red, question you, then give you another series of caning. However, being caned on the bottom is quite an embarrasing news when spreaded over the school, because canings on bottom are only administered on extremely bad or naughty students, what more when the bottom of a girl (which is considered quite private) is caned.

About whether caning on the hand or on the bottom is more painful, I don't have any idea, because when my principal cane on the hand, it means that he is not that angry, so he don't use all his force when he cane. However, when he cane on the bottom, he is very angry and will use his full force. In fact, besides the pain of the cane, the 'explosion' sound of the cane landing on the bottom (together with the pinafore and bike shorts) is very 'terrorising' also.

Lee Sze

 
 

FEAR.!

September 4 2003, 2:23 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,from the replies you gave me,it seems like your school uses the cane now & then.!If a good girl like you can be caned like that,i think the bad student must have get the cane everyday,is there any others girls received caning like you did.?I think,you are in"FEAR" everytime you step inside the school compound.From the pain,marks & the sound produced by the cane,i can imagine the lenght & the width of the cane,it is at least 100 cm long & at least 1 cm width,right.?LEE SZE,if you fear the caning so much,why don't you change school.?If you can't change school,i suggest you wear 1 more extra underwear to school,a 'PETTICOAT'[underskirt is also known as] will give you the extra protection when you commited another offence,which you know you will get another caning.!!!!

 
 

Sorry, i left out another question.

September 4 2003, 2:33 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,i left out 1 more question,you mentioned that before you principal caned you,he never tell the student how many strokes he is going give,right.?So when he caned a girl,he usually gave her 6 strokes of the cane.?What is the maximun strokes of the cane he gave to a girl.?Thanks.

 
 

Re: Sorry, i left out another question.

September 4 2003, 5:03 PM 

Hi Veron. Yes, my school uses the cane quite often, but most of the time, for minor offences (like being late, having long nails, forget to bring books), the caning given by the principal or discipline master is not that hard. It hurts, but not very much. I think these canings serve more to remind the student, create some form of embarrasment so he/she will change, instead of inflicting physical pain.

For girls, I seem to be the first girl to be given the serious caning. That's because after the caning, when I was asked to sign the caning-record book, I don't see any other girl's name in it (Canings which I mention above for minor offences are not recorded). I don't know why, but maybe because the school puts very high hope on me, that's why they punished me heavily so that I won't sink even further. Besides that, I think the school caned me to warn other students too that they might be caned too if they commit the same offence.

I never go and measure the cane, but I think it should be more than 1 meter long right? Isn't 1 meter too short for a cane? I think it's about 1 cm in width though.

Eventhough my school uses the cane a lot, and I myself has tasted the cane before, but I never feel the fear. I love to go to school a lot. I never considered of changing school, I think my school is very good and I have lots of friends (and admirers) here. Plus, there are some guys here which I actually like!

I never think of wearing the petticoat. I feel very comfortable wearing my school uniform with my bike shorts and panties. Sometimes, I don't wear my bike shorts though, especially when the weather is hot, or when I don't feel like wearing it. However, I do feel worried if I am being 'peeked', because I'm known as one of the prettiest girl in school and many guys admire me!

Lee Sze

 
 

You are a very brave girl.!

September 5 2003, 2:14 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,from the view i see,you are really a brave girl.!Many girls like me wears extra underwear to school after a caning to prevent receiving the same thing happening.!I wore under my skirt,a petticoat,short tights & pantyhose to reduce the pain,just "in" case the principal wants to cane me.!when i buy undies,i make sure i buy the "Nylon" ones,because the "Cotton" ones give less protection.!I admire you because,you said that "Somedays i don't even wear biker shorts to school".What happen if you get caned on that day.[the day you did not wear your biker shorts]?I belived it will be even more painful ,right.?By the way,after getting 6 strokes of the cane on last year,did you get anymore caning this year.?If yes,what is the reasons for it.?How many strokes you get this time.?& it is more or less painful than the last caning.?

 
 

Re: You are a very brave girl.!

September 5 2003, 5:44 PM 

Hi Veron. Thanks for you comment, but I don't think I'm considered brave because sometimes I don't wear bike shorts to school. Sure, if I get caned on the days without bike shorts, it will be more painful, but I don't think the difference will be a lot, because the material used to make my pinafore is quite thick. Plus, it won't be sensible to put away the comfort, just because of the fear of getting caned, which is quite rare right?

Well, about the panties, I always buy cotton one. Isn't it cooler with cotton one, plus to me, I feel that nylon panties are normally worn by girls which are considered quite 'hot'???

Yes, I've been caned a few times this year. Once is because I'm late for 30 minutes to school. I was called by the principal to his room, then he gave me around 3/4 strokes. This time, it was not as painful as it was last year. I and my friends also received some caning on the hand, normally 2 strokes, by the principal/discipline master when we forgot to wear our name tags or when our finger nails are long. But the canings are not that painful. These type of canings are a normal incidents in our school.

Lee Sze

 
 

Misunderstood.!

September 6 2003, 4:24 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,I think you misunderstood,the "Nylon" panties i bought is not those lacy,high leg cut,V-shape type that wore by models.!It is a buttocks-shaping girdle i refer to,this type of girdle is not known as those "HOT" type you know.By the way,is your pinafore looks like those flared skirt with pleats behind.?If yes,i think it is not the same design as mine.Mine is a A-line pattern,same style as those office girl wear,except in dull green in colour.So if i wear those V-cut panties,the pantyline can be seen very clearly from behind.!That is why i wear a petticoat & a short tights below it so that the men would not"Stare"at my behind.Another thing i would like to tell you is the next time you get caned, don't take all the strokes in 1 go,even you can bear with the pain,because your principal will think that the strokes he gave you is not painful enough.!So he will use the MAX force in every strokes.When i get caned,i would shout"OUCH" & dance around whenever the cane lands on my buttocks,so that my headmistress would go "SOFT" on the next stroke,I was once told by her that she would gave me 6 strokes of the cane,& because of this "Acting" i received only 2 hard & 1 soft strokes of the cane,so remember to act "Weak".!By the way,which state of E-malaysia you stayed.?KUCHING,K.K.,MIRI,SABAH or ?????

 
 

...stamford bridge

September 8 2003, 10:25 PM 

...fascinating! How are you settling in at Chelea?

 
 

er...

September 8 2003, 10:28 PM 

...er...that's Chelsea (before my spelling is psycho-analysed).

Sort of lost it's spontaneity, hasn't it?

 
 

"Good students" getting caned

September 23 2003, 1:07 AM 

Dear Lee Sze,

Two things occurred to me on reading your post:
1. I recall the very unfair idea that some kids were not expected to be caned. It was expressed subtly by teachers and kids: "Fancy you ...". The basis of this discrimination wasn't clear to me: it seemed to be some combination of schoolwork and behaviour. Sometimes this meant getting let off by a teacher ... but this usually resulted in some retribution like bullying for not particular reason by the other kids ... sometimes it was "I didn't expect you to get caned" ... but said with what I recall was an immense sense of satisfaction. I recall losing out either way ... it was an alienating experience for me, without what I judged to be the cameraderie that kids who were expected to get the cane were able to share in.

2. My parents made it pretty clear to me that they didn't give me space to get caned. So when it happened I remember going to great lengths to keep them from finding out. It was all right for them to get the cane when they were kids, and you would expect it of the kid next door, but it wasn't expected of me. I guess that's why I writing in this forum, just to be able to relate (albeit 50 years later) to a group of people who accept that anyone can get caned, that it's a normal experience and that it doesn't make you unworthy of your place at the dinner table.

Mike

 
 
Veron

Are you still around.?

November 26 2003, 1:13 PM 

Dear LEE SZE,it is a long time did not hear from you,are you still around.?

 
 

Caning

January 3 2004, 3:01 AM 

Hi Lee

I was interested to read your message about caning in Malaysian schools.

I grew up in New Zealand where the cane was used in high school. I was caned twice and received two strokes on each occasion.

How many strokes did you receive when you were caned? Did it hurt very much and did you manage not to cry?

My e-mail is nswmoose@yahoo.com

Michael

P.S. I now live in Australia

 
 
Veron

Forget about her.!

January 4 2004, 12:55 PM 

Dear MIC,forget about LAU LEE SZE,i also lost contact with her since 2 months ago........Regret.

 
 
Veron

Forget about her.!

January 4 2004, 12:56 PM 

Dear MIC,forget about LAU LEE SZE,i also lost contact with her since 2 months ago........Regret.

 
 
Joanne Lim Ee Wei

From Malaysia too

January 10 2004, 4:53 PM 

Hi there,

I'm from Malaysia too, and I have to disagree about the part where National schools and Tamil schools don't feel the cane as much. I am from a National school, in primary school the cane was used for anything, poor results, talking, etc. Some teachers caned for getting, say more then 3 wrong in any test or 10 question tests. In Tamil schools sometimes the teachers go too far to even punish the kids until the parents sue the school.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
Veron

Your school.

January 11 2004, 5:55 AM 

Dear JOANNE,Does your school also caned GIRLS,like what LEE SZE gets.??Any comments about LEE SZE"s forum.?Are you also from EAST MALAYSIA.?

 
 
Joanne Lim Ee Wei

Re: Your school.

January 11 2004, 6:39 AM 

Hi,

In secondary school I've yet to see girls get caned as the boys are the ones who get into more serious trouble. Yes, I am from East Malaysia.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
Diana

Re: Re: Your school.

January 11 2004, 6:22 PM 

Hi Joanne! Glad to see you around.

You said that you disagree with Lee Sze that students from national schools are not caned much. How about other things that Lee Sze said? She said that even girls get caned on the bottom when they refused to let out their hand before the caning has finished. And she also said that teachers will remove the bike shorts that the girls are wearing under their pinafore before caning them, that is if they committed serious mistakes.

Hope to hear from you!

 
 
Veron

About Lee Sze's caning.

January 12 2004, 2:37 PM 

Dear DIANA,LEE SZE's caning in 2002,According to her,Her headmistress did not removed her bikers shorts.It is caned with the pinafore & panties on.I do not think any headmistress will removed any clothing during caning,because with a 1 M cane,even with 3 layers of clothing,it will still be very painful.!!!

 
 
Veron

About Lee Sze's caning.

January 12 2004, 2:38 PM 

Dear DIANA,LEE SZE's caning in 2002,According to her,Her headmistress did not removed her bikers shorts.It is caned with the pinafore & panties on.I do not think any headmistress will removed any clothing during caning,because with a 1 M cane,even with 3 layers of clothing,it will still be very painful.!!!

 
 
Joanne Lim Ee Wei

Re: Re: Re: Your school.

January 12 2004, 3:58 PM 

Hi,

In my opinion, if any teacher pulls down a girl's shorts which she wears inside her pinafore it SHOULD NOT be allowed and the parents should be able to complain about it. Some teachers overdo it, but we've always the right to complain if they DO overdo some things.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
YEE LING

Do you think the caning is real.?????

January 17 2004, 8:48 AM 

Joanna,do you think that LEE SZE's caning is REAL.???Or is she just make it up story.???!In my view,i don't think a girl of 15 yrs old,can take the pain of 6 strokes.!Please give your opinion......Thanks.

 
 
Joanne Lim Ee Wei

Re: Do you think the caning is real.?????

January 17 2004, 3:50 PM 

Hi there,

Sure, the caning may be real. I'm just saying that the teacher is in the wrong if he/she pulls down a girl's shorts. How will the teacher even know if the girl is wearing shorts inside or not if the teacher didn't life her the girl's pinafore to check? That alone is sexual harrassment!

And don't underestimate girls nowadays. For some of us who are active in sports, 6 strokes should be nothing compared to really intensive training which makes every single bone in your body ache but your coach still pushes you. Maybe last time there wasn't such thing as intensive training in any sport, so 6 strokes of PAIN was really painful. Try doing 100 push ups then running 2km immediately after that. I'll say pain is nothing compared to that. And that alone isn't considered very intensive.

By the way, my name is JoannE not JoannA. Lol.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
Joanne Lim Ee Wei

Re: Re: Do you think the caning is real.?????

January 17 2004, 4:16 PM 

* How will the teacher even know if the girl is wearing shorts inside or not if the teacher didn't life her the girl's pinafore to check?*

Error there meant lift the*

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Re: Re: Do you think the caning is real.?????

January 17 2004, 9:10 PM 

"Try doing 100 push ups then running 2km immediately after that. I'll say pain (of a six-stoke caning) is nothing compared to that" says Joanne.

Hmmmm, looks very much like Joanne has never done 100 push-ups, never run 2 Km and never been caned.

 
 
YEE LING

You are VERY FIT.!

January 18 2004, 2:40 AM 

Hi JOANNE,sorry for spelling your name wrongly.From what i see,you are really a very FIT girl,doing 100 push-up,then 2 KM run.Even our army boys can't do it.!!!But i bet you did not received any caning before,because the pain of 6 strokes is not the same as doing 100 push-up & 2 KM runs.!I have heard my classmates saying the pain is so bad that she can't take more than 2 strokes.!By the way,does your school have caning for GIRLS.??Is it also given on the buttocks.?Thanks.

 
 
Paw Kee Pi

All normal for us

January 18 2004, 8:17 AM 

At my school in Malaysia we girls often caned on bottom, sometimes bare, sometimes not bare.

Also do many push ups and much running.

This all normal for us so nobody complain.

Best wishes to you.

 
 
YEE LING

BARE...????

January 18 2004, 12:40 PM 

Hi PAW,Your school give caning to girls with nothing ON....????I don't belived it.!!!!Even with clothing ON,it already very painful.!!!I cannot imagine caning ON THE BARE,by the way,the person giving the canings is lady,right.???Because i don't think a man will do THIS to a girl.!!!!!

 
 
carl and mats

Re: BARE...????

January 18 2004, 12:56 PM 

please can one of our highley evaluratered membres do an explicatione to Yee Lingus about paw kee pi - is not fair

me and my mats is v busy in chat at momente rhankinkg you in anticipatime


 
 
Bob T

Re: Re: BARE...????

January 18 2004, 2:18 PM 

Dear Yee Ling; What Carl and Mats was trying to say is that Paw Kee Pi is pronounced a lot like porky pie which is slang for a fictional story. So you should not believe what Paw wrote about getting caned on the bare.

 
 
carl and mats

Re: Re: Re: BARE...????

January 18 2004, 3:07 PM 

thanyou BOB for your v clear explicatiozne - you is a real mat

paw ke pi  is that LOTTA - she is a real laugh

thankyou


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Re: Re: Re: BARE...????

January 18 2004, 3:50 PM 

"At my school in Malaysia we girls often caned on bottom, sometimes bare, sometimes not bare."

Hi there,

You do realise you have the right to complain when you are caned bare, don't you? Girls are already not supposed to be caned, but caned bare is even worse and IS considered sexual harrassment. Hope you stand up for your rights. What school are you from? (Some people are not stupid enough to believe these lies. Get a life. Name me the horrible school you're from. See if you have the correct initials for a Malaysian school as all Malaysian schools have that certain initial.)

Yes, you are right about me not being caned on the bottom before. I've always been a good student, prefect in fact. Like I said, caning on the bottom is reserved for more serious offences in the headmaster's office or a discipline teacher's room. But as for pain, as my friend put it "What is a sportswoman made out of if she can't take some pain?" I've sprained my ankle when marching, but didn't quit there and then. It was my school's sports day and I ran the 400 metre for my team with a sprained ankle. I've dislocated my shoulder before. I've cracked the bone of my knee before. You're telling me I don't know pain? Even now my feet is painful but I continue to train hard for badminton. Sure, I've done 100 push ups before, ran 2km runs before. Nearly died of exhaustion at the end but then a again no regrets for forcing myself to continue when I could have quit halfway.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
Diana

Joanne...

January 18 2004, 3:53 PM 

Hi Joanne... Pls just ignore the others who are 'crazy' to me. I'm pretty sure no teacher will ever cane students bare.

I'd just like to know, from what Lee Sze said, it's common for teachers in her school to pull down the shorts which girls wear underneath their pinafore before caning them. And you also didn't deny that such things exist.

You and Lee Sze also said that teachers just pull down their shorts. So, does that imply that it is very common for girls in Malaysia to wear shorts underneath their school uniform, that most teachers can be quite sure that when they pull down their shorts, they are going to remove their shorts, not their panties etc? Why do they wear shorts underneath? Is it that your school uniforms are quite uncomfortable or unsecure? And won't wearing extra things underneath cause yourself to feel quite hot in school?

Personally, while I think that canings given over the bottom are already very severe (there is no need to remove anything), I feel that removing the shorts underneath is still acceptable, as long it does not involve lifting up the skirts of the girls. What do you think, Joanne?

Regards,
Diana


 
 
carl and mats

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BARE...????

January 18 2004, 3:57 PM 

anonymus Joane - read messauge from our mat BOB at 2 18 today
best regaredes
carl and mats
thankyou

 
 
carl and mats

Re: Joanne...

January 18 2004, 4:07 PM 

dear diana -me and my mats  is not crazy and we rules this foro with a rod of iron and them what is crazy like that Darwiniwnum man is going to be BANNED

best regarders carl and mats thankyou

 


 
 
Joanne Lim Ee Wei

Re: Joanne...

January 18 2004, 4:22 PM 

Hi there,

Carl and Mats, I'm sorry but I didn't understand your message. Diana, girls usually wear bike shorts underneath their pinafores. It's probably to make us feel more secure. Of course, not ALL girls wear it underneath, I just started wearing bike shorts underneath this year to feel more 'secure'. That's what I said before. How will the teacher know if we're wearing shorts underneath? The teacher, if he/she checks by lifting the girl's skirt I can assure you he/she can get in to very big trouble with the law. WE just wear it to... just FEEL secure. It's hot, but you get used to it after a while. This is the modern day. Teachers who cane until bruises(not red marks)show will get into big trouble.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
YEE LING

Seen any caning before.??

January 19 2004, 11:39 AM 

Joanne,so far have you seen any GIRLS receiving caning before.???If have,can you remember how many strokes does she received.??Is the cane your headmistress use about 1 M long with a diameter around 1 CM.??.Regarding CANING on the BARE,mention by MISS PAW,i really don"t think,this really happen in ASIA.!!This is my view,what do you think.??& lastly you said that caning that causes bruise will get the teacher in big trouble,I don't understand this.!If a caning is painful,It will sure BRUISE the buttocks[even with clothing on],right.??......That means whenever a teacher cane a girl,the teacher will get into trouble,right.??Very confusing.????!!!

 
 
YEE LING

What is a "BIKE SHORTS".??

January 19 2004, 11:52 AM 

Joanne,Another question,What is a "BIKE SHORTS".??Is it also known as "TIGHTS".??Or pants that wore by GYM going ladies.???

 
 
YEE LING

What is a "BIKE SHORTS".??

January 19 2004, 11:55 AM 

Joanne,Another question,What is a "BIKE SHORTS".??Is it also known as "TIGHTS".??Or pants that wore by GYM going ladies.???

 
 
Joanne Lim

Re: Seen any caning before.??

January 19 2004, 5:01 PM 

Hi,

No, Yee Ling, the cane is a few centimetres shorter than 1 metre. And you're right, caning bare nowadays is no longer allowed, I should think in any part of the world, not just Asia. Maybe some smaller countries though. Well, the teacher may cane hard enough to deter the certain individual from repeating his/her mistake, but to cause bruises... I said, the cane may leave marks for a few days, but not until it bruises. And yes, bike shorts is also known as tights.

Please ignore this post if it makes no sense to you. I'm feeling rather tired now.

Best regards,
Joanne Lim

 
 
Saro

Shors under skirts

January 19 2004, 5:21 PM 

When I went to school some girls did wear shorts (uniform PE shorts same color as pinafore) under their uniforms for these reasons:

1. Quicker, more modest changes into PE gear.

2. To prevent chafing

3. Some girls from co-ed schools wore them to feel secure from teasing boys seeking to flip a skirt or get a "look"

Noone mentioned protection from caning -- but then of course there was no boys, men or caning at my school.

 
 
Meilong

Bike Shorts

February 24 2004, 10:01 AM 

Forgive me but bike shorts are not "tights" or pantyhose. They are special tight fitting shorts worn by profession cylists. There are ladies' versions and men's versions and they are padded to ease the problem of chafing while sitting on a saddle.

No girl in Malaysia would wear bike shorts. They would be too hot in that climate.

If a girl knew she was going to be caned on the bottom she might opt for wearing padded bike shorts tempoarily, but apparently Malaysian teachers like to pull these down presumably to eliminate the benefit of the padding. Believe me kids, they are not easy to pull down. It would be quite a performance to get them down.

 
 
YEE LING

Thanks for the answer.

February 24 2004, 11:33 AM 

Dear MEILONG,thanks for the answer.I think you are right,not many people can afford the real "BIKE SHORTS",it is too expensive & too warm to wear as an underwear.I think what they mean is just cotton shorts,which is quite cheap & comfortable....

 
 
squirrel

Re: Shors under skirts

February 24 2004, 9:57 PM 

I was just wondering why this silly thread has suddenly bounced up to the top of the list when as far as I can see the last contribution to it was over a month ago.

 
 
wake up squirrel!

Look up!

February 24 2004, 11:38 PM 

Because I thought you might have noticed by now being a respected long term contributor and all that it's possible to insert a contribution by responding to one in the middle of a thread! Take a look again - it's only a short way up - 2 charming exchanges between our distinguished Malaysian contributores

 
 
nigelR10

Shorts under skirts

February 25 2004, 1:04 PM 

In my experience if you know that your backside is going to feel the cane then you think about protection. Maybe if your school skirt was short then protection would be seen. Length of skirt has not been discussed

 
 
squirrel

Re: Look up!

February 25 2004, 9:57 PM 

Oh right. Yes, I see what you mean. I think that is a bit of a design fault. One expects to find the latest message at the bottom. Or the top, in some other versions.

 
 
squirrel

Re: Wake up squirrel!

February 25 2004, 10:04 PM 

I can't wake up yet as I am hibernating, in my capacity as a squirrel.

 
 
Joanna Loh

The cane in Malaysia

February 26 2004, 1:42 AM 

I HAVE been following the thread about caning in Malaysian schools with both amusement and impatience. Caning does take place in Malaysia in schools and in the home, but not quite as much a some suggest. I am a mother of three and have only caned one of my children once.

I have also been an teacher for 25 years and have had to deal with difficult teens. And I have been forced to use the cane many times on boys and on girls. However, allow me to make a few comments. Firstly, before anyone says, "Bring back the cane" or "Teachers shouldn't use the cane", please come to my school and get to know the actual situation.

We have a range of offences, from coming to school late to threatening other students with iron rods and chairs. Lateness can be repeated 30 to 40 times year, with excuses like having to work the night before, parents not able to bring them earlier, or simply: Tak boleh bangun (Can't get up).

It is easy to say talk to them, talk to their parents or send them to counsellors. In many cases, what is required is understanding from parents and teaching the child the right thing to do. For example, if a boy has to work to support the family, teach him to manage his time and help him get financial help; if tidak boleh bangun, tell him to sleep earlier and get an alarm clock. But if there is a serious offence, then what to do? When students repeatedly misbehave or break school rules a caning is in order. In other words, empathise but don't sympathise.

Many people fear the use of the cane might be abused. But how come nothing is said about verbal abuse? Children can be screamed at, shouted at and even threatened. A school counsellor shrieked at my friend's son till he had nightmares. A few strokes of the cane would have been more effective as a punishment and less traumatic.

Schools need people who can give problematic pupils their time - talk to them, understand them, but also to punish them appropriately if need be. Learning that punishment is part and parcel of life is also education!

Lastly, teachers allowed to handle the cane must be trained technically and psychologically.

 
 
YEE LING

Did you caned any girls before.?

February 26 2004, 11:09 AM 

Dear JOANNA,so far in your teaching career,have you caned any "bad" girls before.?If yes,did you give them on the hands or bottom.?what is the usual number of strokes you give the offender.?

 
 
Loda Ol Junc

Re: Did you caned any girls before.?

February 26 2004, 12:04 PM 

Why everyone talk of canes and bike shorts and bad children who need good caning?

All is fantasy and all who say they are teachers are pulling legs - not smacking bums!

Also all who say they are girls are living in dream world.

Everyone need to put away willie and get life.


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Jan 5, 2008 6:06 PM


 
 

Canings in Malaysia

February 27 2004, 5:24 AM 

Hi. For your information, the bike shorts that we girls wear to school under our pinafore are not the type worn by cyclists. If not mistaken, those worn by the professional cyclists are made of special material, and it is very very tight fitting.

The bike shorts we wore to school are made of cotton I think, they are stretchable, a bit tight fitting, but that's it. Most girls wear this type of bike shorts to school under their pinafore, others wear the normal types of shorts which we wear everyday for casual wear, and others just don't wear them.

And, I feel amused about people from other country who never been to any school in Malaysia claiming that there is no caning in schools. I don't know what to say, but just can't stop laughing.

Cheers,
Ervinna

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Canings in Malaysia

February 27 2004, 7:56 AM 

Ervinna claims to be a girl but that seems more than somewhat unlikely considering his membership of and regular visits to sggirls.com (sg = Singapore) - a website for Orientally oriented clothes fetishists which boasts a 'Super Magic Categorizer' displaying on demand a wide selection of photos of Oriental girls from various countries attired (or not as the case may be) in various ways.

Members may select photos of girls from Singapore, China, Korea, etc, dressed in school uniform, lingerie, swimsuit, etc.

The variations are almost endless - as are the attempts of males on this forum to convince us they're female.


 
 
Just

Re: Canings in Malaysia

April 29 2004, 6:52 PM 

I totally agree. These people are abusing such medium and distorting reality. In fact what they are saying seems to be derived from some porn movie that they have watched or maybe their sexual fantasies. I have no doubt at all that people like Yeeling are in fact not a singaporean girl like she claims, but rather some pathetic despo male who just wishes to fulfil his school-girl BDSM fetish.

 
 
The Matrix

Confucius say

May 8 2004, 11:49 PM 

Woman who dance with invisible man not know what she up against.

 
 
george

Re: The cane in Malaysia

May 16 2004, 6:05 PM 

i do not think we can ever be sure if the people on these sites are genuine
they may be or may not be, the medium we use to communicate does not allow us to be certain and many use this to abuse the truth

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: The cane in Malaysia

May 22 2004, 11:32 PM 


 
 
Anonymous

Re: The cane in Malaysia

May 25 2004, 2:00 PM 

Ok let's make this short and clear. In Malaysia, canings of boys and girls at primary schools are very common, at the hand and at the bottom, in front of the class. There are no rituals, the teacher might get angry over some student and command him/her out, then cane him/her in front of the class. No such thing as bending overs.

In secondary schools, canings of boys are common, but relatively rare for girls, but it does happen. What is important in secondary school is only those who are empowered will cane students. This normally means in the office, but sometimes, when the principal walks in the school's surroundings and find some students commiting offence, the principal might cane immediately. Again, no rituals like bending overs.

Ok, the Education Act currently doesn't allow girls to be caned, but it still happens anyway. Most parents, except those overprotective ones, will like teachers to cane their son/daughter. They will allow as long as the canings does discipline the child, but are not abusive. And most students won't dare to tell their parents. And even if parents complain, they will most likely be asked to transfer their child/daughter to other schools. In other words, teachers will win always. Currently, the Education Ministry is under discussion of allowing female students to be caned (legally) (read www.thestar.com.my)

Alright, that's all. So, please don't put your own judgements and insult the others, since none of you know more than a malaysian student right?


 
 
Koh Sok Cheng.

I support caning of GIRLS.!

May 27 2004, 12:17 PM 

Hi,i studied in JOHOR,Muar,now in Form 5.I was bully by some classmates recently,i report to the teacher,& the punishment they got is just scolding because they cannot be caned.!IF they are BOYS,my principal will sure give them at least 3 strokes of the ROTAN.!It is really unfair,i got beaten up & my bullies just got scolding for it.!I hope that the Gov"t must quickly appoved this ACT,so that my bullies will soon taste the CANE.!

 
 
Soh Moey Lan.

Me TOO.!!!

May 27 2004, 1:54 PM 

I support Sok Cheng,Female students are getting out of control now a days.!!They FIGHTS,DESTORY the School property,rude to teachers,smokes & steal others things is quite common,A dose of the cane[3-6 strokes on the buttocks with skirt on] will teaches them a small,painful lesson.!I think a lady teacher using a light cane[about 70 cm]will wake up their ideas.!!!

 
 
Karie

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 5 2008, 5:32 PM 

I just had a quick read at this page.

I think what Lee Sze said about her primary school experiences were quite similar to mine. And it seems to be true throughout Malaysia, as the following link shows http://thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp?file=/2007/12/4/columnists/vkchin/19629191&sec=vkchin.

In my secondary school, only boys get caned, girls are never caned. But I did hear of stories from my friends from neighbouring schools about girls being caned.

About the issues about shorts being pulled down, I myself never heard of it, but with so many 'unbelievable' things actually happening here, there is definitely a possibility what Lee Sze said was true. Imagine incidents like primary school girls' skirts being lifted up to check who was the one menstruating to find the culprit who clogged up the school's toilets and forcing students to squad and soak in school ponds as punishments (http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/legal/general_news/shocking_punishment_cold_dirty_penalty_over_sanitary_pad.html). Many teachers seem to dare to do unbelievable things nowadays, sigh.

I also read some questions about whether girls wear shorts in their uniform to school. I do, I think most of us do. It's allows us to keep our modesty when being active in school, allows us to change into physical education attire easily, and as some of us go to tuition classes straight after school, we can change into non-school wear easily. It isn't that hot actually wearing them - the shorts we wear is something like this http://carmcs1990.multiply.com/photos/photo/6/2. It's not unusual for us, when we go home after school, to just take off our pinafore, change our blouses into t-shirts - and there we are, what we wear for the rest of the day. =) But I really never hear of peopple wearing shorts to reduce pain of caning - what I know caning of girls is so seldomly done on the buttocks. It's a bit like not flying as there is a risk of an aircrash accident.

If you go to things like Blog Search you can find many different views about this whole recent issue about 'legalizing' caning of schoolgirls. You can find many interesting ones there - my friend actually described her caning incident together with her views, u can read about it here at http://insatiablewonderland.blogspot.com/2007/11/spanking-action.html.

 
 
Sill Lee Asso

Cycle short

January 5 2008, 6:35 PM 

Thank you to Karie from Land of Smiles for keeping going important subject of cycle short. Yes please. I write to Insatiable Wonderland about tunic being lifted by headmistress.

 
 
winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 6 2008, 8:18 AM 

Karie,have you seen boys getting the cane.?How many strokes usually is given in Malaysia.?

 
 
Karie

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 7 2008, 3:11 PM 

Don't really understand what Still Lee Asso is talking about.

For guys, in primary school it really varies - teachers cane as they like, usually between 2 to 5 strokes on our hands, both boys and girls. But if the teachers are really angry they can even give more than 10 strokes in one go. It's really not regulated, kids who get caned keep mum after the punishment. Even when parents complain they are told to shut up, or if they don't like, transfer their kids to other schools.

I don't know about secondary school - I've only walked pass the principal's office and see the principal caning guys, but never bothered to stop and have a look at the caning, was kind of scared looking at such a 'violent' scene.

 
 
winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 7 2008, 11:09 PM 

In S'pore,caning only for boys,usually 3 strokes,very painful,the cane use is 1m,oh yes,when the cane lands on my buttocks,it is very loud,like firecrakers,the cane marks last 2-3 days on average....

 
 

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 26 2008, 9:48 PM 

what other kinds of punishments are commonly given to students in malaysia?

in singapore, only the principal and vice-principal is allowed to cane students, but teacher often assign us lines to write, or to copy chapters from our textbooks.

 
 
Karie

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 28 2008, 11:21 PM 

From my experience,

Primary school: Caning is usually the punishment given. For us who do not reach our target marks in spelling tests (the commonest reason for us to be caned and the reason I usually get the cane), other than the caning, we have to do corrections as well, like write the correct spelling 20 times and hand them in the next day.

Others include being told to stand on a chair or a table in class, or to stand outside the class, depending on how naughty the student is. The bad thing about standing outside is when the headmaster/discipline teacher passes by, they tend to give the students a taste of the rotan as well.

One more I can think of, is the teacher going to the student and pulling and twisting his/her ear.


Secondary school: Caning is really rare. Usually in classes, guys will be told to do push ups in front of classes, girls will be told to 'pull their ears' while squatting down and standing up a few times. Or teachers may again ask students to stand on chairs/tables.

The principal may occassionally call disobedient student to stand in front of the school hall during assemblies, and halfway through the assembly mention what the naughty things the students did and warn other students to stay away.

Demerit points are also given by teachers - accumulate more than a certain and your parents will have to pay the school a visit.

Prefects usually make students do 'school-cleaning' as punishments, like telling them to pick rubbish around an area of the school compound. When I was one of the prefects, we fined those who are late RM1.00, and after school ends, the late students will have to gather at a classroom and stay in the classroom for the same amount of time they are late to school. We prefects are on a rotation to ensure the students do keep to their 'detention orders'.

 
 
winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 29 2008, 11:55 AM 

Karie,are you from West Malaysia or East Malaysia.?

 
 
Karie

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 1 2008, 6:38 PM 

I'm from Kuching, but now studying in Miri. Why?

 
 
Winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 1 2008, 11:44 PM 

Kuching,very nice place,there is a beach,something like Damai,am i right.?

 
 

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 2 2008, 10:20 PM 

hello.

i am from singapore here.

mind i just ask you a few questions?

1) is caning very oftenly used in malaysia schools? what about in
private schools?

2) what other punishments do you get in malaysia? do you write
lines? or detention? or anything?

3) are teachers allowed to beat students using their hands?

4) and what are some of the reasons you could get caned in school?

i hope you can address some of my questions. if you do need any info
about caning in singapore, i can help you with it. just ask me.

thank you.

 
 
Karie

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 16 2008, 7:46 PM 

1) is caning very oftenly used in malaysia schools? what about in
private schools?

It really varies between schools. Primary school uses the cane a lot more than secondary schools; a lot of primary school students did receive the cane before, and among the primary schools, chinese-medium schools seem to get it most frequently. I always think that private schools don't cane students, but my friend from a private school, Lodge School, did receive the cane occasionally.


2) what other punishments do you get in malaysia? do you write
lines? or detention? or anything?

Again, it varies. Write lines, detention, demerit points, push ups, squats while pulling ears, told to stand on a table/chair, run around school grounds a few times, told to clean the toilet... it really varies.


3) are teachers allowed to beat students using their hands?

I don't think it's allowed, but again, not allowed doesn't mean it does not happen. I've read in news about teachers slapping student's faces, and got into big trouble.


4) and what are some of the reasons you could get caned in school?

Serious offences: Smoking, fighting against teachers/prefects, vandalism, bringing pornographic material to school, bullying students.

And lots of other petty offences, like being late to school, not wearing one's school uniform properly, forgetting to bring books, not doing homework, not reaching targets in school exams, results deteriorating, going to the toilet too often, talking in class, not keeping the classroom clean, forgetting to turn off the classroom's lights and fans before going to the labs etc. The list is endless.

 
 

Proper caning [also pissing]

February 20 2008, 2:01 PM 

Dear Lau Lee Sze,

I am glad that a Malaysian girl has come forward to tell her caning experiences. Your views are most balanced. I am an Indian girl who was caned quite frequently in school on my bottom.

I used to be quite naughty girl, talkative & fighting [unlike you who is a good girl]. Our school was girls only & there were 2/3 male teachers, but whenever a naughty girl was punished, our lady teachers would only teach her a good lesson, without caring for modesty in any way.

There were non-corporal punishments for small offences such as uthak-baithaks[sit-ups with ears holding], toe-touching [sometimes for whole day]. But when needed, the offender would be asked to touch her toes & skirt would be lifted properly & cane applied to her panties.

This was done in class, even in presence of male teachers, but the male teachers would never cane us.

Caning was always on butt & ruler was used to beat on hands. Our headmistress would cane me & supervisor in her absence.

The punishment was fast & effective. Other than myself, only 2/3 other girls got cane.

As with you, I also have a attraction for caning on bottom, because the area near private parts is hit & I am humiliated before others.

In fact, most teachers enjoyed seeing me get the cane & would report me at the slightest provocation. But my parents were firmly in favour of the caning & since I was really naughty, I had to accept it.

I was a very naughty girl doing talking & disturbing class. In 9 std [15 YRS], I grew tall in a few months, so my frock was short & above knees by about 3 inches. My buttocks also became rounded now. Once our supervisor caught me talking, so she ordered me to face the class & do uthak-baithaks [sit-ups] by holding ears across. When I did them fast, she told me to do them very slowly & stop in sitting pose in between. Then I saw some girls laughing secretly & looking between my legs. I also felt the air against my panties. This is how my panties were exposed.
I also got the cane on my bum in class later.

I got the cane for the first time for kicking the girl on next bench while sitting at age of 14. Our teacher called me & sent me to headmistress. She asked to get back to class & touch my toes. Then she came to class & lifted my skirt. I couldn't see behind me. My back was to the class. Then she suddenly hit my butt at centre with the cane. I screamed, but she pinched my thigh, ordering me to be silent. Then she continued. My butt stared to burn & I shook them with every stroke. I got 7 strokes.

Once our Drawing teacher saw me talking in class. She called me in front & gave me such a hard slap that I pissed. Though nobody saw it, my wet panties excited me for the rest of the day.

In school, apart from Uthak-baithaks, I got the cane on my butt in class for 6-7 times. When in 10 standard [end of school -age 16 yrs], I was caught copying. For this, our headmistress punished me on the next day, after asking my mother. She told me to touch my toes in class (my butt pointing to the 'audience') & my skirt was lifted as usual, but then the next thing she did was to pull my panties down to knees!

The cane touched the centre of my butt & she directed me to take proper pose by prodding the cane. she made sure my knees were not bent & the buttocks were properly spread open. 10 strokes with full force followed, plus 3 extra for getting up & rubbing in between. It was harder than the normal caning, because the head was very angry with me & it was my last few months in school, so she must have wanted to punish me severely. I would scream & dance my butt with each stroke.
But the most thrilling part came when at about the 8th stroke, I PISSED.
I was pissing for about 10 seconds & my panties that were at my knees got wet.

Since my buttocks were made to be pushed out, there is no doubt that everyone saw . I felt relieved on pissing, but the next stroke was a upward swing, the cane touching my piss-spot.
I felt so humiliated & really punished. My rounded large naked buttocks were red hot & the marks took about 2 weeks to go. The head made me remain that way for the next 2 hours. I couldn't sit okay for the next 2 days.
The punishments I received (specially the last one) helped me to reform myself. No more copying for me!
I think my case was exceptional.
I was also caned recently in college, but that is for later.
Aparna






 
 

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 22 2008, 9:40 PM 

And lots of other petty offences, like being late to school, not wearing one's school uniform properly, forgetting to bring books, not doing homework, not reaching targets in school exams, results deteriorating, going to the toilet too often, talking in class, not keeping the classroom clean, forgetting to turn off the classroom's lights and fans before going to the labs etc. The list is endless.

getting caned for not wearing your school uniform properly?

but arent the uniforms in malaysia so straightforward?

blue pinafore and white blouse, unlike singapore where its very varied, and schools can add all types of rules to their uniforms?

what rules with the uniform can malaysian schools come up with?

 
 
Karie

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 24 2008, 1:46 AM 

Aparna, why did you not report all these 'abuse' to the police? I will definitely not allow any teachers to do that to me - any punishment should be proportionate and what your teachers did was way over the top. I'm sure my parents will not allow such a thing to happen to me too, eventhough they agreed I should be punished when I misbehave, I am sure they will not allow me to be mistreated in such a way.

Nothingbeatsliving, most of the time, we get caned because of not wearing the school tie. Imagine the weather, it's so warm. Most schools don't have any air-conditioners installed. And imagine after PE lessons, we're all hot and sweaty, so it's common for us to purposely not wear the tie after that, for probably one or two periods. If we're unlucky to bump into the discipline teacher during then, we may well get a tap on our hands! (not really a caning)

Other reasons include not wearing the name-tag, or forgetting to bring the proper attire for PE etc.

 
 
Winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 24 2008, 1:37 PM 

I don't think India allows bare bottom caning.

 
 

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

February 25 2008, 6:00 AM 

so uniform offences can be summarised as things like

1) not wearing tie, nametag
2) improper pe attire?

but don't mind me asking. i thought that most schools in malaysia use the sewn on nametag, and not those which can be taken off?

as for the tie, i never knew that malaysia schools had that too. its common here in singapore though.

can you, by the way, send me a blank email?

nothingbeatsliving@yahoo.com.sg

so we can discuss more?

thanks.

 
 

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 23 2008, 12:43 AM 

bumps for this thread.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

March 8 2009, 12:57 AM 

I thought it might be helpful to bring back this thread because of the recent mass caning un Malaysia.

 
 

School CP creeping back

March 10 2009, 9:33 PM 

Glad to see that this topic is revived.
I have described my canings [and pissing] in this thread.
Looking at the bad behaviour of children, it will be very difficult to keep CP away from schools for long.

Aparna

 
 
MYBoy

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 8 2009, 8:40 AM 

Excerpts from "Many sides to the stick" (5 April 2009).http://news.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20090330-132032.html



However, not all girls are lucky enough to escape the sting of the stick. Graphic design student Athirah Naim says that she and her gal pals were caned for so many small 'offences' that she can hardly remember what these were now.

"I think it was for things like forgetting my homework, failing a test, not bringing my physical education uniform, having long fingernails and so on."

Athirah, 23, concedes that the boys in her school had it worse.

"We would just get smacked on the palm or on our legs. The boys were caned on their rear ends. Of course, they tended to cause more trouble, such as painting graffitti on the school walls, and fighting."

She feels that teachers should practise 'discriminate caning' when all other disciplinary methods have failed.

"I definitely agree with bringing back the cane though - students today are so out of control!"

Students who got the rod every so often had to find a way out - or, at least, a way to lessen the intensity of the punishment.

Jane Lim, 23, remembers the days when she took an 'anti-pain toolkit' to school, comprising toothpaste and glue.

"We used to smear them on our hands just before we went in front of the classroom to be caned. They worked quite well in reducing the pain."

While the debate over whether the cane is an indispensible instrument of discipline or a politically incorrect tool will persist, some see the swishing rod as just another unremarkable part of school life.

"I was caned in secondary school for smoking," said a 20-year-old college student who wishes to remain anonymous.

"It didn't affect me then, it doesn't affect me now. After a while, the teachers just gave up and told me not to smoke in front of other students."


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 17 2009, 6:21 PM 

I picked this up in the library this morning and shared it under the 23 girls caned thread but as I did on March 8th thought it worth sharing in this topic to make sure it is not missed. The second thread is a repost. The lingo is hard to decipher but 19 years old is not too old for the cane and the boys get it on the backside and the girls on the palms. The photo shows the palms have been freshly caned but they don't look less for the wear. The girls second from each end marks are clearly visible.

http://www.medindia.net/news/Malaysia-to-Revive-Corporal-Punishment-in-Schools-49650-1.htm

http://charlotte-charlett.blogspot.com/2006/07/270706.html

[linked image]

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 20 2009, 3:01 AM 

In case you do not see the image linked by American Way above here is a direct link to it.

It is worth visiting the blog in which the image occurs though, if only to view the comments by our distinguished contributors SillLeeAsso and yee ling - at least I think they are our distinguished contributors! happy.gif

American Way asks elsewhere if the picture is genuine, ie have the girls actually been caned on their hands? This is a tricky one. If they have, some of them, especially on the left of the picture, look rather too happy about it! However, the young lady second from the right certainly looks suitably chastened, as do the girls either side of her.

On balance, I think that probably yes they have been caned, or at least some of them have. Whether caning is a suitable way to deal with 19 year olds (so the blog says) taking a day off school is another matter entirely, and personally I don't think that it is.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 20 2009, 12:59 PM 

alaric is our expert here on this matter. Maybe alaric would like to weigh in on the recent change in policy caused by the upsurge of unruly behavior of girls in Malaysia. The ban was put in place in 2006 and already in 2007 there was debate about reinstituting it. God forbid if the people of Malaysia have any say on the matter. The anti-cp zealots here do not believe in the principle of subsidiarity and argue their case as far from the classroom teachers, parents, and the local region as possible. I guess the theory is that the big shot in the larger city capitols knows best like Washington DC. When a healthy debate occurs in a country like Guyana the whole world converges upon them as if they're enriching uranium. I would think that the UN and Human Rights Commissions and other well funded (some from my money) agencies could find something better to do than meddling in local issues. There is a course on public speaking at the school where the girls were caned in the beginning of their school year and this was a recent debate topic. Public caning isn't something that is even debated anywhere in the USA but should I sit in judgment of them? It may seem to me that their students are being caned for trivial offenses but should that would be my call? Judging from their blogs they don't sound that much different from ours or perhaps yours I'm pretty sure yours except they seem more discipline when it comes to their studies. Due to the proclivities of adolescence, sometimes lacking in self-discipline a little bit of structure, according to their customs, is not necessarily a bad thing. Believe me, more people believe in the States believe in it than some are led to believe. 230,000 paddlings, and I'm sure less than these 2006 to 2007 here out of 50,000,000 kids, are numbers more driven by litigation than good old fashion common sense.

back to that debating thingy, the topic will be on public caning. "Public caning is allowed in restoring discipline" or something like that. i actually would be very glad if i could go pro the topic. but, we wouldn't know right until we cabut undi during tha big day. btw, the big day is on next Thursday. that means, i have a week to go. i still don't have my text yet. but, i'm more confidence this year compared to last year. at least, i have been exposed to how the situation will be. pray for the best! ahh, if you have any opinion about the topic, kindly leave a comment ok! heaps of thanks!

 
 
American Way

<a href=”http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2226/3226/1600/P7270001.0.jpg ">here

April 20 2009, 3:12 PM 

/1600/P7270001.0.jpg ">here


If you add the message title + message text, I'm not coming up with the word "here" by itself. If I kep them in the message text the picture would come up gain so I split it. I've no problem with the Roots of Heaven post from way back using the recommended method with "here" only coming up in red. I'm a novice so what am I missing and please be patient with me. I know when the picture just comes up and makes it a pain to slide back and forth because of its expanded width so I see the advantage of learning the recommended method. I really need to get back to work.







 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 20 2009, 5:41 PM 

From my previous post: There is a course on public speaking at the school where the girls were caned in the beginning of their school year and this was a recent debate topic.

The hand caning was in 2006 of the girls and the debate in the public speaking class about public caning in the school was this past Fall. The questions were just thrown out there for topics of debate in an off handed way and in no means meant it was being seriously considered.

A public caning I think would be more akin to having the whole school assembled for the sole purpose of witnessing the caning and given almost like a judicial punishment as this movie depicted. Although obviously a film, would this scene be more fact than fiction? And if so when in the recent past?

 
 
American Way

Signapore High School Caning

April 20 2009, 5:43 PM 


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 20 2009, 6:12 PM 

Their blog was short lived but I wonder how a fortnight later when their teachers saw it how they would react to that picture and especially the one or ones who wielded the cane? I agree some may not appear duly chastened and they show liitle shame or remorse. For their sake I hope their parents were notified. Trying to conceal things can get them in bigger trouble though they seem to care so little about that. Some may have found it difficult to hide their tell tale wounds upon returning to home and find themselves on the receiving end with no tell tail marks (pun intended).

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 20 2009, 11:57 PM 

Hi American Way. The method of linking to pictures that I describe in 'Computing Corner' will work, but it has to be followed precisely. I suspect that you have been omitting the last bit, the </a>, which is absolutely crucial, since it terminates the HTML tag. I shouldn't worry too much about it though. HTML isn't everybody's cup of tea! In any case most images will work fine using the method you've always used. There will only be the odd one where the site will block access, and in those cases as long as I'm around I'll happily provide a link.

I think you are correct about what public caning means in the Asian school context. I don't think it is necessarily in front of the whole school though. Could be in front of a year group for instance, anything involving a bigger audience than a small group or a single class. Not a good idea IMHO. Quite likely to create martyrs rather than enhance discipline, and very highly dependent on the personality of the pupil. Probably no more severe than any other caning for the extrovert, but extremely stressful for the introverted or shy. Therefore inevitably unfair and not an equal punishment for all, which should surely be the objective of any disciplinary method.

I have to disagree with you about parental notification in the case of the 'hand caned' girls. Ancient history now, but the girl writing the blog was 19. She, and indeed any other pupil that age, shouldn't have been caned anyway. If school regulations required that pupils of that age were caned there was certainly no good reason for informing their parents. A 19 year old is an adult. Any punishment should be a matter between them and the school, not something to be broadcast to their family.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

April 21 2009, 12:59 PM 

You're right. I didn't think that through about a 19 year old being caned upon returning to home because of the gitl finding the pain awful because of her father's canings. I'm sure if they lived at home it may have caused non corporal punishment consequences especially if they're financially dependent for thier parents for their education.

This is an interesting discussion considering the April 7 decision to revive CP for girls in Malaysia? .

http://johnny-ong.blogspot.com/2009/02/teachers-caned-for-poor-exam-results.html

http://katataknak.blogspot.com/2007/09/public-caning-in-schools.html



 
 
American Way

Tragedy in Malaysia

April 21 2009, 8:31 PM 

Below is a sad story about a caning on the palms in the beginning of April, then 15 hours later the nine year old boy died. Whatever his pre-existing condition causality will be tough to prove.

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Thursday/Frontpage/2521214/Article/index_html

 
 

Non-CP punishments

April 22 2009, 8:12 PM 

I think that non-corporal punishments act are effective if the child is basically willing to learn to obey orders.
In fact, 95% of naughty girls would be in line with non-CP.
So non-CP means of disciplining also deserves a discussion.
Aparna

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 3:59 AM 

Malaysia has a two-track legal system, with the civil courts operating alongside state-based Sharia courts in which only Muslims can be tried for religious offences. I wonder if the new found interest in reviving corporal punishment for school girls is being driven by Muslims?

In the civil courts, caning is carried out with a long, thick length of rattan which breaks open the skin and leaves lasting scars under the Sharia law, the caning is more to teach and bring shame to the person rather than to inflict pain. The judge said in the New Straits Times report that the cane to be used would be not more than 1.22 meters long and 1.25 centimeters thick, and that she would be allowed to wear her clothes.

The woman at the centre of the controversy, Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor, 32, told reporters she wanted the ordeal to be over soon to move on with her life. She was drinking beer with her husband two years ago when she was caught by Islamic enforcement officers.

"I will accept this earthly punishment; let Allah decide my punishment in the hereafter. The court has yet to tell me when the sentence will be carried out, so I would like to ask them to hasten it. I truly respect the court's decision. I admit that it's my offence and not that of others, it's not the offence of my parents, not the offence of my other family members," a teary Kartika told reporters.


[linked image]

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 5:26 AM 

Oh dear American Way, I'm sure you must sometimes feel I'm persecuting you! I'm not I assure you. It's just that I sometimes get these feelings about things, and your photograph above didn't look to me like a 32 year old model, but a much younger woman. And sure enough it is.

Your picture is of 22 year old waitress Noorazah Baharuddin who was sentenced to 6 strokes of the cane and fined RM5000 at the same court as Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor, also for drinking beer, an offence which took place in July last year. Here is the Straits Times account, complete with the picture. Those desirous of seeing it will have to be quick though. The link is to a page in Google cache. The on-line Straits Times is one of the most volatile newspaper sites I know, and the page has already gone from their site.

This current page of the Straits Times deals with the 32 year old part-time model Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor (photograph below) whom you quote above. She was not actually in court with Noorazah Baharuddin and the third (male) defendant charged with beer drinking because she was studying in Singapore. Although she is Malaysian, and hence subject to the Syariah court, she is a Singapore resident. Again, due to the volatility of the Straits Times site this page probably won't last very long either.

Part-time model Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor, 32, sentenced to 6 strokes of the cane for drinking beer
Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor, 32

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 6:21 AM 

And a little more information. The court appearance of Noorazah Baharuddin and the male defendant was actually back on 1 December 2008, whereas Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor was sentenced to the same 6 strokes and RM5000 fine on 20 July 2009.

None of the caning sentences have been carried out, and unless Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor gets her wish for her sentence to be expedited it looks unlikely that any of them will be caned in the forseeable future if at all. Nobody has been caned under Sharia law in Malaysia so far, and two brothers sentenced to the cane by the same Sharia judge back in 2005 are still going through the appeal process.

For completeness here is a link to a photograph, and account of Noorazah Baharuddin's sentence which may be a little less volatile than the Straits Times links.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 8:12 AM 

It may happen soon. The judge fixed a snag because the girl was never imprisoned they are going to detain her so the trained staff member can give her six of the best. Not to break the skin as the judge ordered I would suggest soaking the rottan in beer from one of Malaysians fine breweries over night. BTW what does a Muslim girl model?

Visit sunny Islamic Maldives: See 150 women publicly flogged for adultery.

The Maldavian law bans corporal punishment in the schools. Corporal punishment is prohibited in schools under article 10 of the Law on the Protection of the Rights of the Child, which states: Punishment in school should be appropriate to the childs age and should not affect them physically or psychologically. This is reiterated in the Ministry of Education Handbook for Teachers (updated 2002), which also states (in section 2.7): Maldavian Law does not allow teachers to inflict corporal punishment on students.







 
 
C. Farrell

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 6:11 PM 

Another_Lurker wrote: "Here is the Straits Times account, complete with the picture. Those desirous of seeing it will have to be quick though. The link is to a page in Google cache. The on-line Straits Times is one of the most volatile newspaper sites I know, and the page has already gone from their site."

But that article has been on my site for two months already (at http://www.corpun.com/myj00901.htm#20953 ) and will remain there, so in fact you don't have to be quick at all. I'm a bit mystified as to why it doesn't seem to occur to people to look at www.corpun.com to find such items.


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 8:04 PM 

I have found wikio blogs helpful in finding articles but with due deference Colin Farrell sometimes things are taken down by repressive regimes. However authoritative and thorough corpun is news breaks occur before their updates and IMHO there is often a lacuna when it comes to this side of the pond. I would love to know if he has cracked the DOE site with the SCP figures in the States and would share that knowledge but I've asked often but to no avail. Anecdotally there may have been an uptick in female paddlings on the secondary school level in some states and that could be related to gender specific rules. Who wants the added humiliation of having a man paddling you? In August the Office of Civil Rights will be publishing their figures and I'm almost sure the figures will be under 200,000.

Switching from Malaysia beer behavior to Sudan clothing there are significant differences in who the laws apply to. Saudi is a Kingdom and their law severe but political tensions abound in areas like Sudan. It should be noted that the North is under Islamic law (no slacks) and South Sudan (no tight ones) is under civil law. Take the trouble to note and I hope it is not too much trouble the 2007 slacks in the bottom row middle picture and the cleavage in the 2008 in the third and fourth link. There is indeed a double standard.

It should be noted that the North is under Islamic law and South Sudan is under civil law. Note the slacks in the bottom row middle picture. The pictures are all from girls from South Sudan where the fashion police became over zealous.

http://www.topix.com/religion/islam/2009/07/sudan-women-flogged-for-wearing-pants

http://blogs.cbn.com/africamatters/archive/2008/10/08/tight-pants-merits-a-beating.aspx

http://www.misssouthsudan.com/meetthecurrentqueen.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9100687@N05/2795682575/

http://www.wikio.com/themes/Sari+Dewi+Shukarno

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 23 2009, 9:51 PM 

Your comment is fully merited Mr Farrell. I do in fact use (and quote from, with appropriate acknowledgement) your excellent site extensively. When I saw the article by American Way that caused me to be suspicious of the photograph I was under the impression that it referred to a very recent event, as indeed the sentence on Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor (as discussed in his post) was, having only taken place on 20 July 2009. I therefore went down the Google/press site route rather than consulting your site as you could scarcely be expected to be that up to date.

When I later discovered that the sentence on Noorazah Baharuddin (the woman in American Way's photograph) dated back to December 2008 it would indeed have benefitted me to turn to your site, but by that time I was simply trying to tie up the loose ends and conclude my posts.

 
 
American Way

Stella Artois

July 23 2009, 11:04 PM 

Here are two local stories (more detailed than news summaries) that have not been taken down. Corpun 16026 refers to the two brothers sentenced to six lashes back in 2005 with the same judge. The waitress in my mislabeled picture, I'm human, will probably be caned pending her appeal after her. She has repented and exonerated her family for her sin what more can she do? It's going to take place behind prison walls and the governement might be squeamish to embarrass her and her family any further. They've made their point and deterred others. The change in the caning laws proposed for girls preclude caning on the buttocks so they have some sense of propriety in that regard athough their brief abolishment is about to end because of growth in girs' unruly behavior. I don't think a woman has ever received the martial art training to administer the sentence nor has a women been caned in Malaysia so it will be on a learning curve. It's always hard to make an omelette without breaking an egg so she is going to have to have a hard ass not to bleed. Let's just call her Stella Artois.

http://blogs.iium.edu.my/ka_mokhtar/2009/07/23/syariah-court-fined-and-whipped-for-consuming-beer-in-public/

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 24 2009, 1:24 AM 

Syariah caning advice from a man who gives 100 strokes a week. The street floggings are left to the amateurs in the other countries. Second link possible picture of the girl to be flogged because who else would they post it with the story. I can't seem to post the picture in the preview. Wow!!! Look how long her fingers are? I already messed up once when it comes to a picture. I have a feeling that man or a man like him will cane her harder than any naughty schoolgirl. I take corporal punishment over Saturday detention and certainly six strokes rather than sitting in a Malaysian jail for 2 or 3 years however long or sore my seat will be!!!

Malaysian Caning Expert

http://current.com/items/90489087_muslim-model-to-be-flogged-in-malaysia-for-drinking-beer.htm

 
 
American Way

NOT EVEN CLOSE

July 24 2009, 2:17 AM 

The girl in this picture is too pretty to be a part time model. They may have just taken their most stately model and used her as an example. Wouldn't she be a handful to flog. Look at those fingers!!!

[linked image]

 
 
C.Farrell

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 24 2009, 1:32 PM 

May I try to clarify some understandable confusion. The Sharia (or Syariah as they spell it in Malaysia) religious courts are entirely separate from the criminal courts and the two kinds of caning are very different. The waitress and the model who drank beer, if their caning sentences actually do get carried out, will not be punished on their bottoms. In fact the woman remains seated, so they couldn't very well be. It is supposed to be a light "symbolic" caning, nothing like the criminal ones applied to men as seen in the notorious video. "For a syariah whipping, the officer must exercise restraint and keep the upper arm close to the body. The rotan's end is held at the height of the offender's head. The rotan swings downwards with only a movement of the wrist." "A Syariah whipping would not need a great deal of accuracy, not being limited to just the buttocks."
http://www.corpun.com/myj00506.htm#16091

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 24 2009, 7:55 PM 

www.corpun.com/vidju3.htm

http://www.corpun.com/vidju.htm

These above videos on Corpun site might give our readers a better idea. I don't buy for a moment that her caning will be that light. The authorities are minimizing, rationalizing and justifying. They're getting that instead of years in jail? They're going through rigmarole (appeals) over that? IMHO the powers are trying to make themselves look lesss barbaric in the eyes of the west. With regard to the second gruesome video judging by some of their offenses you couldn't hit them hard enough nor should you feel sorry for them.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 2:02 AM 

American Way, I really do think you are flying in the face of reason here! In particular I think that all the known facts indicate that it is ridiculous to link to the videos and pictures of Malaysian state judicial corporal punishment on the Corpun site, as you do above, and suggest, as you appear to be doing, that this may be in any way similar to what may befall Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor if indeed she is ever caned. The Malaysian judicial CP you link to above is only applied to males for certain specific offences, which do not include drinking in public!

Mr Farrell has given you details of Syariah caning in Malaysia above, and indeed you have linked to the same account, which states quite clearly the method used, in particular that the cane is the diameter of a little finger unlike the much heavier judicial cane, that the officer has to exercise a great deal of restraint, and that a woman is seated for the punishment.

In addition to this the Syariah law in Malaysia appears to grant the unfortunate offender the privacy of a prison caning rather than the additional humiliation of a public punishment. On Mr Farrell's excellent Corpun.com site this page gives links to pictures and videos of women being caned under Sharia law (same law, slightly different name) in Aceh Province in Indonesia.

The regime in Aceh is more punitive as regards the humiliation aspect, in that offenders are caned in public, usually outside a Mosque after Friday prayers in front of a large, and often rather hostile, crowd. However the weight of the cane and the method used are similar except women kneel sitting back on their heels. Indeed, this posture may be what is meant by being seated in the Malaysian version, rather than sitting on a chair.

Please ensure that you watch the first of the two Corpun.com Aceh Sharia canings videos here. You have given an incomplete link to the page above, so you presumably have already seen it. We see several strokes of the cane applied to the unfortunate woman.

Now I have never been caned, so I am not best qualified to judge, but the caning in the video looks to me to be similar to a school caning except that the strokes land on the upper buttocks and lower back. The recipient certainly does not look unduly distressed by the actual caning. If Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor or the young waitress under sentence of Syariah caning in Malaysia are ever caned all the available evidence is that their experience will be very similar to that of the woman in the video, but in the privacy of a prison punishment room rather than in front of a large and hostile crowd. Certainly not the far more severe punishment you seem to be postulating!

One further point. You say above:

I take corporal punishment over Saturday detention and certainly six strokes rather than sitting in a Malaysian jail for 2 or 3 years however long or sore my seat will be!!!

Please re-read the judge's remarks. The three year prison sentence was the alternative to paying the RM5000 fine, not to the caning. The caning is not negotiable, it is mandatory under the Syariah or Sharia law.

Finally, I am going to be very uncharitable but very realistic here. I would suggest that Ms Shukarnor knows exactly how mild the caning will be, which is why she has not appealed against it like all the other defendants sentenced to it. What better publicity for a model than to be the first woman caned under Syariah law in Malaysia, especially when you have hedged your bets by publicly recanting your sins and promptly paying your fine, thus re-establishing your religeous credentials. The young waitress, and the various males under sentence of Syariah caning presumably do not feel that sort of publicity would benefit them, which is why they have very sensibly appealed, thus postponing the caning for several years, if not indefinitely. Never let it be said that Another_Lurker is a cynical old so and so! happy.gif


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 2:22 AM 

The traditional Another_Lurker addendum.

Whilst I will resolutely maintain that my sentence above

I would suggest that Ms Shukarnor knows exactly how mild the caning will be, which is why she has not appealed against it like all the other defendants sentenced to it.

says exactly what I meant to say I will happily agree with any pedant who maintains that I should have said:

I would suggest that Ms Shukarnor knows exactly how mild the caning will be, which is why she has not appealed against it, unlike all the other defendants sentenced to it.

The devil is in the detail, or rather the comma! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 9:01 AM 

Thanks for that informative clarification. It sounds like a turf battle. The same judge presided over the brothers case back in June 2005. I assume the brothers have paid their fines by now. With this sentencing is there some kind of dispute between secular and religious rule going on here or an internal dispute between religious members among themselves? Who gets the money the governemnt or the religious leaders? And who pays for the prisoner's room and board if they don't ante up? Maybe it comes from the taxes on their breweries. O can be cynical too. From what I can see from her picture she's not a looker so she must be in the business of modeling gloves. What a pity of the other girl covered her lovely fingers!!! She may need more than a publicity stunt to revive her career to be competitive. BTW given the privacy afforded her they may make the caning more painful but not as brutal as a prison caning. Maybe they can call the cane master from the Signapore movie back to revive his career. The devil is in the commas and I avoid them like the plague.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 9:24 AM 

Hi American Way. I have to say you are the first man I've encountered with a thing about feminine fingers. Presumably you would have found caning on the hands (probably the most common method for girls in English schools) and strapping on the hands (almost universal for both sexes in Scottish schools) extremely distressing!

You say:

The devil is in the commas and I avoid them like the plague.

I had noticed! In fact when you first posted I wondered if you might be in the legal profession. Over here it is customary to omit all punctuation except terminal full stops from legal documents. That way they can be interpreted several different ways and the legal fees consequent upon any litigation involving them are correspondingly inflated.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 2:39 PM 

The Sisters of No Mercy inflicted corporal punishment with a ruler and we had one particularly mean fourth grade teacher. She would say she would hit the palms for not paying attention and the knuckles for acting up or talking back. These were her words for being stupid or being bad. It was so common that we didn't even think of it as being hit. Getting the stick was another matter. In June we chanted stick as a rhyme with arithmetic as in a rat in Tom's house might eat Tom's ice cream. I once was hit on the knuckles for talking back for not knowing the times table. She asked 12 times 11 and I said 144 at which I immediately corrected it by saying 132 as not to be hit on the palm. She took that to be talking back and said too late and hit my knuckles.

Now that I'm balding I laugh but well after the British musical invasion long hair still prevailed and and I still remember an exchange student who caressed my hair with her long fingers. I'll stop there because my wife at times reads my postings. She was almost six feet tall and anything different from the girl next door was a trophy even though she didn't shave her armpits and bathed infrequently so please don't ask her nationality.

As far as protecting the fingers I never saw a girl hit for being bad only for being stupid. I don't think they wanted a girl to turn on the waterworks which many did when they were called to the front of the class. If the girl did not have the courage to submit she would not be protected from damage. The tawse is a bit dicey because it requires accuracy skills. I previously referred to an unreturned loaned books but I can know wholeheartedly recommend the book mentioned below. Miss Martindale was the authoress of chapter four. I call to your attention to pages 94 and 95 shows the correct tawsing technique with an illustration of schoolmistress, Miss Valerie Thornton interviewed on BBC Scotland's "Current Account" in March 1981. She was interviewed by Sally Magnusson. Maybe one of our distinguished readers could post the picture of the homely Miss Valerie who like Miss Martindale werre doing television interviews.

http://www.aks-books.co.uk/titles/corppunishment.htm

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 5:26 PM 

I have ordered The Corporal Punishment of Schoolgirls because the 1995 first edition 1995 has 128 pages and the updated edition has 224 pages. I'll let our Happy Circle know about the book upon arrival or its status of availability. Here is an Amazon review that convinced me that it was worth buying. Most of this is old hat for our readers but maybe there is something new and only time will tell.

The Corporal Punishment of Schoolgirls is back!

Hugely expanded, comprehensively updated, and packed with more facts and more pictures than ever before, this new edition is the definitive (and indeed only) work of its kind. It is a FACTUAL account of Corporal punishment of Schoolgirls (not sexual fantasy or fiction) complete with interviews, photo's etc. here are just some of the shocking facts to brings to light.

In 1984, a Texas private reformatory offering `Bible Discipline' Paddlings for wayward teenage girls was forced out of business by Texas state authorities. In 1997, after an intervention by the Governor it reopened its doors and was allow to continue without Government interferance.. Who was this Governor? George W. Bush Current President of the United States.. Could Corporal Punishment be re-introduced in All U.S. Schools, what is the Departement of Education position on this matter? read the book..

On the other side of the world, in 2001, a no-caning policy in Liberia's schools was overturned after the country's president thrashed his daughter live on national TV `as an example to the nation...' A year later, schools in South Korea began caning again after a two-year ban, with Thailand looking set to follow suit; and a school in New Zealand found a novel way around a government prohibition...

I found the book to be very educational on the subject.. it is a factual (not fetish or sexual) account on the whole subject of corporal punishment in schools and especially on effects on girls -vs- boys. why girls were treated differn't (usually more leanenly then boys) covers the subject of rules /conditions of who should administer and legal aspects very interesting.


 
 

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 25 2009, 5:54 PM 


American way


[linked image]



Hopefully this is what you wanted!!! Technology permitting!!!!


Some sister of mercy!!!!!

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 26 2009, 1:48 AM 

prof n thanks that was quick. Wow!!! We are similar in age and share similar interests judging by our access to the same books. I've stopped loaning books out so I might be able to save you 25 quid by sharing a preview and rest assured there will be no quid pro quo.

What do you make of Miss Valerie Thornton? What former headmistress would give safety tips on a television program in 1981 when Sally Magnusson was beginning her career and in the midst of a controversy? Was she an early Miss Martindale. Sally is still a looker at 53 but I can't imagine how frightening Valerie must look by now. BTW after me no one should worry about grammar or spelling just be consistent and you can have your own inimical style just like ee commings or prof n.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/biographies/biogs/tvfactual/sally_magnusson.shtml

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1981/jun/08/corporal-punishment

 
 

Valerie and other matters

July 26 2009, 3:09 AM 


American way

Thanks for the reference re typo's etc., as I said my problem is I just post too fast, and in the office well someone else checks it for you! But then my editor Sue says men are useless at detail.......

Valerie , well I wonder if it's really Valkyrie!!!!!!! I bet her students thought so!.

More seriously I have taken the liberty in pasting the posting extract below from Dr. D's site last April which I think puts the pictures into context . She has no objection to its use here and I trust the Doc doesn't object either. It is better to let the genuine expert speak rather than my paraphrase.

Lets just say I'm rather glad I was born South of the border

Whilst posting....ah ! EE cummings....do you remember the Joan Baez poetry cycle Baptism , released at the apex of the Vietnam war...almost as maudlin as these Malaysian and Scottish issues.....my first encounter with EE's work .....?


Posting edited from YAHOO 'School corporal punishment ' 2009....Lyn says



....... "I was a teacher in Scotland for a few years before abolition of the tawse in 81/2.

I think some of the tales of the tawse, as with the cane can be embellished. so here is my take on it , purely drawn from experience. I never saw or heard of the tawse in SCHOOL being used on anything but the hand. I used it  in the two schools I taught in pre abolition, equally on boys and girls ( although to be fair far  fewer girls committed infractions which deserved this punishment).

You need to bear in mind that , just as with the cane, there were various 'grades' actually, in the case of the tawse, weights ( ranging from Light (L) through medium(M) to Heavy(H) and extra heavy(XH). They came in two and three tailed versions, and there also are shorter belts for primary schools and 'Ladies straps' , a little shorter and thinner than the normal, which were seen as particularly suitable for us by ' lady teachers', particularly if you were a little smaller in height than average. I used a two tailed medium for virtually everybody, but did have a three tailed 'XH' which I rarely ever used except for recidivist boys in the upper forms. the best tawses were lochgelly and the maker 'John J. Dick' in my day only supplied teachers direct at the school, you couldn't just buy one. In Glasgow the belts were made for the city and provided by the authority. 
The tawse is made specifically for use on the hand , because although it is extremely painful , it will not mark. If applied properly,  it leaves the hand bright red but not bruised. I know some families had tawses at home , and how they applied them was, of course up to them, but as I said I personally never knew of it being used other than on the hand in school. the only 'stories' were of  if a child refused to hold out their hand , but I never knew of such a case. Normally if you were an effective teacher you could coax compliance.

The pupil would be asked to come to the front of the class. You would get the tawse, ask the student to hold out their hands at 12o'clock, one supporting the other,ensure their wrists were covered with a sweater pulled down or ,even, in summer a board cloth or similar,draw the tawse  up carefully ( you don't want to hit yourself - which could be a real possibility! ), and belt the victim! .  You gave one , two or three on the first hand, and then told the victim to swap hands and you repeated. Some swapped alternate hands after each stroke, it varied.  

Some pupils were really frightened, I'd say petrified of this, but you must remember this was an everyday punishment- it was hard to get through school without having been belted at least once. If it was your first time you were better with a sympathetic teacher like me , than with a bruiser who just belted away with an H or XH. If they were really scared I tried to deal with it at the end of class in, at least, semi private. I would make allowance, in particular I gave them strokes two at a time one on each hand, and told them to put their hands down at their sides and then if necessary I would  repeat the treatment after a minute or so. This allowed the pain to dissipate a little before repeat strokes- as I say it is the initial few seconds which are unbearable. Also I hated tears in a lesson, it seems to me, if there had to be tears (and in my view sometimes  had to be so) , it should be in private not in front of the whole class.

No one ever refused to co-operate with me. Having said that if they were scared, and some boys were as well as girls, I would spend time to talk and persuade them it was for the best.......... "
 
 
 
 
.


 
 

Doctor Dominum

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 26 2009, 6:27 AM 

More seriously I have taken the liberty in pasting the posting extract below from Dr. D's site last April which I think puts the pictures into context . She has no objection to its use here and I trust the Doc doesn't object either. It is better to let the genuine expert speak rather than my paraphrase.

It doesn't worry me, but I have to say I am glad you seem to have obtained the original posters permission.

Part of the reason I keep my group members only with closed archives is because that is what some of the members want. A lot of people don't seem to realise it but people do retain the copyright over things they write online unless they specifically give it up, and it should not be copied and pasted elsewhere without permission. And one advantage of a yahoogroup over certain other types is that a person retains the ability to delete their own messages from the group as long as they are a member, giving them a level of control over them that they don't always have elsewhere and which is taken away from them, if they are posted without permission.

American Way's statement here that Lyn has no objection makes it clear that he's asked her for permission, so it doesn't apply. I, on the other hand, even though I 'own' and run the group on which the message was posted have no rights over it whatsoever - I don't object to it being posted with the original posters permission, but even if I did, I don't think I'd have any standing to protest anyway - she owns her words. I don't.

But I do need to make it clear that people shouldn't be posting material here from schoolcp without the permission of the original poster - except for extracts, etc, that they can justify under fair use doctrines, etc. I don't object - but except for my own posts, it doesn't matter if I object or not.

 
 
Declan

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 26 2009, 9:06 AM 

I enjoyed the account of Lyn's about the use of the tawse, and those pictures of Valerie Thornton.

I was reminded of a TV account of tawsing following the death of the former Newsnight presenter Donald McCormick this week. It must have been in the early 1980s when he introduced an item about the proposed abolition of the tawse. They interviewed a young and attractive female teacher who was very much for the retention of the tawse and described it as a good way of keeping fit as well as keeping order in class. They then interviewed a girl, about 14, who had been tawsed that day. She was smiling throughout the interview and though she said it hurt she said she deserved it and didn't want it abolished.No doubt they also interviewed anti CP campaigners but I don't remember that bit.

The whole item was light hearted and McCormick himself joining in with the the general banter.Only on reading his obituary this week it was revealed that he was a teacher himself in Glasgow in the 1960s, so he must have had some experience of the tawse, though he didn't mention this in the programme from what I remember.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 27 2009, 12:34 AM 

Excitement is mounting over the unfortunate (or possibly deliberately attention seeking, according to your point of view) Ms Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarnor with Google News giving 100s of links.

Her Father, 62-year-old businessman Mr Shukarnor Abdul Mutalib, has now announced here that she is a hospital worker in Singapore, and not a model as reported by the media. I wouldn't mind betting that Mr Mutalib very wisely advised his daughter to appeal the sentence and in the face of her insistence on not doing so is now trying to minimise the adverse publicity he realises she will attract.

The word on the streets seems to be that once the appeal period runs out she will have to be re-arrested, brought back to court and sentenced to prison for a day for the sentence to be carried out.

There are some very lurid speculations as to what will then happen, including this one by a 'Mr Bojangles' which makes anything postulated by American Way in this estimable Forum seem mild by comparison:

when they canned the waitress in feb they did it just like they would a male, same hardness and it was done in the female prison yard only in the view of prison officials but she was stripped naked and granted the person who did the caning was female there was at least 2 male prison guards present, isnt that wrong a women naked and having males there? after the 3rd stroke there was blood and they didnt care search caning video on you tube u will see the leaked video of the male caning, its shocking they used that same force against a female, they cane many females for prison misbehaviors too without the approval of a judge its normal in female prisons there

This account fantasy is to be found in the 'Comments on this story' following the article here. It is of course complete nonsense as anyone even slightly familiar with the tenets of the Muslim faith will immediately realise. In addition 'the waitress' hasn't been caned yet as she very sensibly appealed.

A far more sensible speculation is to be found here in the 'Malay Mail' which includes this helpful illustration of the procedure:
A Syariah caning of a female per the Malay Mail
Syariah caning of a female

This looks remarkably similar to the Aceh, Indonesia procedure, as in the Corpun.com videos linked above.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 27 2009, 2:06 AM 

The caning graphic is precious. Is she praying or meditating? She looks so peaceful I would hate to have to interrupt her thoughts with a mild flogging. I thought the idea of hitting the buttocks was to protect the lower back of course the men who stands gets it on the buttocks. I'm sure her husband will appreciate that when she comes home from her flogging.

If you ask me the guys are feeling they're hypocrites because they have downed a few brewskes after a soccer match and don't want to set a precedent. My guess is there are more Muslims imbibing than Catholics having steak on Good Friday.

For Allah's sake let's get on with it or better still let the real expert in moderate corporal punishment Valerie Thornton at her and I can guarantee you Stella Artois wouldn't even think about even a sip. Do we have some Scots that can track down that interview with Sally Magnusson?

Apologies are in order. The esteem Forum has been hijacked from the topic of school corporal punishment by none other than yours truly a lifetime Honorary Member but I'm beginning to appreciate beauty contests solely for cultural reasons mind you. Katrika keep your day job and leave the modeling to Miss Malaysia. That girl from Saudi Arabia is beginning to grow on me. I always wanted to date a nun but they have to save some virgins for heaven. Praise Allah.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 27 2009, 2:49 AM 

Hi American Way. You say:

She looks so peaceful I would hate to have to interrupt her thoughts with a mild flogging.

Ah, you noticed it too. I almost remarked on how much the woman in the picture seemed to be enjoying the procedure but decided against it as it didn't befit the solemnity of the subject! happy.gif

The tawse instead of caning eh? I'll back you on that one but in view of your thoughts regarding fingers perhaps we ought to specify application other than to the hands. Perhaps over cycle shorts as apparently frequently worn by modest schoolgirls in that part of the world and advocated by our distinguished contributor Sill Lee Asso in this very thread.

And you also say:

Apologies are in order. The esteem Forum has been hijacked from the topic of school corporal punishment by none other than yours truly a lifetime Honorary Member

I shouldn't worry. At one time when presenting the monthly statistics R.G. Tracker (or it may have been one of his predecessors) used to quote the percentage of on-topic posts. If I recall correctly the figure very seldom got into double figures. happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

July 27 2009, 3:38 AM 

Katrika's fingers did nothing for me. Manicurists make a fortune telling their clients that it's the first thing people see but I guess the pedicurists use a similar argument as well. Can Friends United be of help when it comes the 1981 Sally Magnusson interview? Valerie is an intimidating figure isn't she? I wonder what the dowager is up to now?

 
 
American Way

Paddling vs Counseling

August 2 2009, 2:59 PM 

This was a recent poll taken from Malaysia. I'm sure our readers are familiar with the Mister school caning poll (replete with jesters and pesters) but enough posters and ongoing. Public corporal punishment is occurring at the Memphis charter school and thenkfully I know of no other school here that has done that for years. Were they common there near the time of the ban?

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

August 2 2009, 4:01 PM 


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

August 6 2009, 6:51 AM 

The flogging for Katrika was scheduled for August 4th did not happen. She had until August 3rd to change her mind and appeal. The latest for those who have some interest in the story need to do no more than Google: "Is Whipping the answer?" That's quite a title considering its Malaysia. There must be a lot of controversy internally. It's peculiar how they describe it as the maximum punishment and equate it to a mother's beating. By the graphic it appears that the whipping will not be public. I don't trust their word and neither do I think her family. BTW. Why is it if you search: School Corporal Punishment Network 54: Kinky Teachers come up and for quite some time? I don't think it puts this esteem Forum in a good light. Of all the threads they have to post that one!!! Have others notice? It bothers me and I don't know about others? Can anything be done to change it?

 
 
Sill Lee Asso

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

August 6 2009, 11:48 AM 

Kinky teachers - yes please. There is Robin Peverett, Dennis Rice, JMH, Stan Jones, Janet Dines, W. Ing, Colin West, John Guise, Marjorie Smith, Old Lady Thomas, and also kinky parents - bring them on - Gerta, Joan and Paula.

 
 
American Way

Question of Indiscipline or Discipline

August 6 2009, 4:59 PM 

It will always be a question of discipline and the Malaysians seem fond of the word indiscipline and it's understandable why they would use the word for boys AND girls. We use to say of the fairer gender they were caddy among themselves but now the word bully is being attributed to them and who knows maybe some girls are even bullying boys. Once it's abolished it doesn't seem to be discussed elsewhere as with CP for girls. They seem more prone to cane youngsters of secondary school age where indiscipline seems more of a problem. Malaysia may be one of the last countries in the world that will abandon SCP. There is always updated debates ongoing as seen in the blog's comments. It's usually brought on by a controversial issue and in this case a slapping of a student. Under no circumstance do I call that CP. They know more about the USA (seen by the paddle bruises) and SCP than I would have expected. One Anonymous comment (minority what else is new) I resonate with as seen in the dated comment. Hey readers I need help with that handbook!!!

http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2007/07/question-of-discipline.html

7/18/2007 08:45:00 PM

 
 
Corsair

Fancy a pint, love?

August 21 2009, 3:01 PM 


Extracted from The Guardian, London, August 20, 2009

based on an AP report

A Muslim model will receive six strokes from a rattan cane after admitting in an Islamic court to the crime of drinking beer in a bar.

Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, 32, said today that she asked Malaysian authorities to punish her in public instead of in a prison, but they refused to go against official procedures.

Shukarno, 32, is scheduled to be the first woman in this Muslim-majority country to be flogged under Islamic law after she was arrested in a raid and sentenced by a sharia court for drinking alcohol at a hotel lounge last year.

"I want to send a message that I really regret what I did, so I want to be punished in front of other people," Kartika said in a telephone interview from her northern home state of Perak. "If other Muslims can see me being caned, I hope it will convince them not to drink."

The news of her impending punishment comes just weeks after the case of Lubna Hussein, a Sudanese woman who faces 40 lashes for wearing trousers in public, in what has become a public test of Sudan's indecency laws. Hussein, a former journalist and UN press officer, was arrested with 12 other women during a party at a Khartoum restaurant in July and charged with being indecently dressed.

Kartika said prison officials turned down her request today, saying she will be lashed six times with a rattan cane without any public witnesses sometime early next week.

Authorities have insisted Kartika will not feel much physical pain because the rattan cane will be smaller and lighter than the one for men, and its purpose was to "educate" rather than punish.

Her penalty has led to criticism by some politicians and women's rights activists who say it is still too harsh. The law provides for a three-year prison term and caning for Muslims caught drinking, but most offenders are fined. Drinking is legal for non-Muslims.

Kartika said officials indicated she might have to stay inside the prison for several days ahead of the caning, but she will be separated from the regular inmates.

"I feel relieved. I was not afraid of the caning, but I was afraid of the environment in the prison. Now they said they will make me comfortable, so I'm satisfied," she said, adding thatshe had explained the matter to her seven-year-old son and five-year-old daughter.

"They both don't really understand, but my daughter told me, 'Mama, you must be strong.' Now I feel brave but sad that this is not only a punishment for me but for my family," she said.

 
 
Jimmy Snazzbox

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

August 23 2009, 4:47 PM 


Interview with Kartika from Al JazeeraEnglish

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2009/08/200982373312488496.html

Caning on Monday


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

September 28 2009, 4:53 AM 

Malaysia is considering bringing back the cane on the palm for the girls while the boys get it both ways still. Same question of pain or modesty deference accounting for the difference of target apply to Kartika (lower back and buttocks) as the girls on the palms? Maybe when scores of lashes occur sitting would be a chivalry concession? The man would be stronger and would have a stronger cane but would posture really matter pain wise?

Do most people feel that Kartika's stubborn refusal to appeal is due to religious belief or to become the center of attraction? When she drank beer she could never imagine what events would have unfolded. Is she an opportunitist or a repentant and remorseful sinner making amends or a little bit of both? The latter two would in no way lessen my esteem for her. They weren't going to let anyone know to avoid the media circus and now they want to set the date.

Caning Date Set Monday



 
 
American Way

Kartika (apprehensive & doubtful).

September 28 2009, 4:48 PM 


 
 
prof.n

Re C.P. in malaysia

September 28 2009, 10:54 PM 



I really have tried not to engage in this debate. Three reasons.

One.....The judicial corporal punishment of adults opens a huge set of issues and I am not sure this is the forum in which to best discuss them .In other words it would be better to have contributions from lawyers, jurists and others with experience of the problems of this area.

Two . Religious punishment as opposed to straight criminal law punishment opens a whole extra level of problems......what should we include ...the self flagellation of saints and sinners? Should or does the religious ethic cross into our area School corporal punishment, and what are/were/ would be its effects? A legitimate area for us , but not one into which I would lightly tread. If you have a strong enough stomach, read the recent report on the industrial school in Eire during the 60/70's.

Three.....The issues being discussed require a detailed understanding of the Koran . I, as with many of you , have probably read it .but a detailed knowledge...no , just enough for after dinner debates. I therefore hesitate before either commending or criticising a decision based on faithful interpretation of a book I know less well than , say, the oeuvre of F. Scott Fitzgerald...... on which , may I frankly admit I might with luck score 2 or 3 points in a specialist round of 'Mastermind'!.

But today I break cover . Why? Well the report to which American Way commends us , if true, and I say that without any knowledge of its veracity, is by any standards of justice in society, religion or come to that school completely unacceptable

Let me tell you a little story which has always stuck in my mind.

You will have gathered from my other writing, that at my school our Headmaster was a remote , sometimes frightening figure. You could argue he was a lot of things , but a word that never , to me , crosses my mind would be compassionate. So set this story against that statement , ( a statement that , I think , every boy in the school at that time might have acknowledged , as they would say today ' as a no brainer') .

As I have mentioned I was for around 18 months the chairman of the School and sixth form councils. One of the less agreeable jobs this entailed was being the last refuge as a friend for those appealing caning decisions. I was expected to assist them if they nominated no-one else, and even speak for them in what were often completely hopeless situations. Hence miss F's comment that 'I could argue hen and chickens.....' Anyway one one occasion there was a particularly disagreeable , and even more hopeless than normal case. Which landed on my watch. We'll call him ~Eddy, a well known nasty piece of work in the fifth, who had stayed in the school by the skin of his teeth. He appealed a sentence from the Deputy head ( Miss F) of six of the best for theft and lying. To say the sentence was deserved was an understatement , doubtless if she could have awarded more she would have done so.

In such a situation they are two ways of looking at it : you could salvage some shred of respect by simply accepting the inevitable in the hope, perhaps that contrition might lead to a small amount of mercy, , or you could think,' what the hell.....I can't lose anything', and appeal. Which, acting true to type is exactly what 'Eddy' did . I had a couple of hours, and no help from him , to prepare. The appeal was with the Head. At the last minute he cancelled it ..an urgent 'phone call with the Chair of governors and a function that night. It was a full two days later before he saw us. He took the unusual step of asking to see me first. He simply informed me , he wished to make a statement at the commencement, and would appreciate , therefore some latitude.

His statement was simple and nearly floored me , as to Eddy ......! He stated he was sorry this business had dragged out in full over four days, and thus regardless of circumstance it would be an abuse of process for a boy to have been waiting four days for a very severe (his words) caning. He therefore reduced the sentence to two consecutive Saturday ( 3 hour) detentions. Actually , most of the students probably felt a week's waiting would have been deserved! But of course that isn't the point

Now you see the point. Whether or not Kartika is caned, hard, soft or whatever, the whole show has been reduced to vaudeville . The courts want her to appeal to get themselves out of a hole. The local press want the caning for circulation, the international press want another stick to beat the Muslim religion with..( so to speak), and Kartika well, who knows the recesses of her mind after all this time. Frankly, she's been through enough . Let the courts drop it : once and for all

Justice has to be timely , or it is no justice at all.

As I walked out of the Head's office that day , he beckoned me to pause a moment. He said something to the effect. ' Well, one nil to you without even you having to open your mouth !...something of .a record eh.( I was known even then for never shutting up !!), ...but I guess if you're like me you haven't got a very good taste left in it .

That just about sums up this squalid little episode too...except the judicial system and the judges haven't the inner convictions he had......Untimely justice is no justice......at all. .

Has Doctor Dominum or anyone else ever faced a similar dilemma?

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

September 29 2009, 12:44 PM 

Hi prof n: The issues being discussed require a detailed understanding of the Koran. It is a religion of submission and unlike Judaism with Moses and Christianity with Jesus the moral tenets seem so foreign. As Jews and Christians blur the Muslims stand in such contrast and Catholics have become like mainline Christians and blur and evangelical Christians stand in such contrast. A qualification on that would be those who have large families.

People are not having large families (Europeans know more than Americans) to have bodies for the farm or the business but for souls in heaven. The other world focus will mean that the minions of virgins. My luck theyll be 70 Nuns. Traditional Catholics and Chasidic Jews would fall within that large family minority and the other world as well. Flogging of woman and the covering of the flesh are a clash in their culture right down to the gender and the target of CP in Malaysia and I'm sure in other Muslim countries too.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 2 2010, 1:26 AM 

This from a recent corpun file I thought was worth posting in this thread. As an instrument of correction is the same thin implement used on the buttocks and the hands? Can anyone make out the writing? The issue of corporal punishment for (girl indiscipline or so called tomboys) was recently studied but from what I gather girls at the present time are not legally caned and if it comes down to that it will be only on the hands for them. What would Jenny say?

This is the caption from the Corpun video. As with Kartika they are big fans of demos and some would be pleased to note the brace position but not the angle. happy.gif

A Malaysian secondary school orientation class. This is not the real thing, as it appears at first glance, but a demonstration for new first-year students to show what will happen to them if they misbehave. The Powerpoint presentation projected on the wall lists, I think, the names of the seven teachers empowered to cane in 2009.

http://www.corpun.com/picpar.htm


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Jan 4, 2010 6:00 AM


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 3 2010, 3:58 PM 

I took the liberty of translating google and came up with this but I can't make out the smaller print. I'm hoping that it is a matrix and not just the name of those authorized. happy.gif

watikah penuruunan kuasa merotan oleh pengetua

watika cane by the headmaster of the delegation of powers

 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 3 2010, 4:24 PM 

Watikah means "Certificate". I too cannot make out the smaller script.

 
 
Lau Lee Sze

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 7 2010, 6:01 PM 

Found this website today,

"Many sides to the stick". http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/29/education/3546923&sec=education)

Some excerpts:

"However, not all girls are lucky enough to escape the sting of the stick. Graphic design student Athirah Naim says that she and her gal pals were caned for so many small offences that she can hardly remember what these were now.

I think it was for things like forgetting my homework, failing a test, not bringing my physical education uniform, having long fingernails and so on.

Athirah, 23, concedes that the boys in her school had it worse.

We would just get smacked on the palm or on our legs. The boys were caned on their rear ends. Of course, they tended to cause more trouble, such as painting graffitti on the school walls, and fighting."


And

"Students who got the rod every so often had to find a way out - or, at least, a way to lessen the intensity of the punishment.

Jane Lim, 23, remembers the days when she took an anti-pain toolkit to school, comprising toothpaste and glue.

We used to smear them on our hands just before we went in front of the classroom to be caned. They worked quite well in reducing the pain."


 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 7 2010, 11:04 PM 

Thank you for that link Lau Lee Sze. It is very similar to reports from South Korea that I have mentioned elsewhere.

In a successful society, it is important that citizens not only obey the law, but also behave in a civilised manner towards each other. Sadly, some modern parents are not prepared to allow teachers to correct their children when they misbehave and neither are they prepared to do so themselves.

 
 
Winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 8 2010, 10:28 AM 

Lau Lee Sze is back after absent for 7 years.

 
 
Sill Lee Asso

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 9 2010, 8:00 PM 

Welcome back Lau Lee Sze. Welcome back Winston. Welcome back Dot. Yes please.

 
 
Lau Lee Sze

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 20 2010, 4:32 PM 

I am actually still reading this forum. But did not feel like posting for quite some time as many seem to doubt that girl students in Malaysia do receive the cane. But after reading this thread recently, it does look like there are more and more evidence of the cane being used on both male and female students.

Some posts I've seen recently:

http://sweeneysan.blogspot.com/2010/01/kena-rotan.html

It is a blog posting of a 18 year old student (Form 6 upper) who was caned by her teacher for coming to school late. She lamented quite a bit about being caned at such an age. She mentioned it was really painful, which she partly attributed to the fact that she hasn't been caned for a long time (since primary 6).


In this forum where people were asked what punishments they received in primary school:

http://cforum5.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=181139&extra=&page=3

In post #72. I translate it from Chinese to English, "Talking about craziness, in primary 3 my female 'devil' teacher is really crazy indeed. Boys have to remove their pants to have their bottom caned (even the underwear), girls have to lift up their skirts and were caned across their panties, it was really crazy! (luckily this happened only once, and I was never caned by her"


I hope many of you are aware now that in Malaysia, rules are often not followed. Many of you did not believe me when I last mentioned that I have seen a few girls in my school who had to have their shorts removed during their caning. It appears to me that the 'misuse' of canings on girls are more widespread than I once thought too.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 20 2010, 6:32 PM 

I agree about them not following rules. Those 23 girls received the caning because the law of the school is their law. The faculty made them change the account in all likelihood the girls are still getting it. Do you agree? The caning of the hands of the girls was probably true and the only sense of outrage was the age. Punctuality with the 23 girls and all the girls irrespective of age for untidiness. Punctuality and orderliness may be seen as acts of disrespect for authority in that culure. Do you agree?

Group canings involve a loss of face as in shame as oppossed to a guilt oriented culture like ours. The boys writing in a semi-erotic way was embarrassing the girls (didn't gain the boys any favors) and the showing of the freshly caned palms (It could have been rouge as in a practical joke) must have upset the old school for it showed no shame.

I agree with TWP that hand caning is dicier than the bottom or what Jenny calls a juicy caning. wink.gif but the law changes for indiscipline IMHO are exempting buttocks battering on any part of the bathing suit area. happy.gif in the alliterative vocabulary of the anti-CP zealots. I love the onomatopeia of slaps, smack, spank, swats, swish as well as pats and pops. Can you think of others?

The nudity part could be fantasy posting between genders. If that's the custom of getting it home (same gender) then it's not that unlikely that it would be a part and parcel of school punishment.

I am not sure if corporal punishment between genders is common for in all likelihood it would end upon the girls having their first period. Just look at changes in handbooks here. I'm sorry to be so crude t gets messy after then. sad.gif There is shyness (fig leaf) with nudity that transends cultural traditions and with sexual abuse and pregnancy it might just be instinctual or more nature than nurture.

From a Malaysian perspective are there any insights on why the caning for Kartika has been delayed so long? Do you think she will be caned and if so how soon? Do you think it is as soft as they play it up to be? Worse then the just search Bottom of the Class Crystal (Yahoo UK) caning in terms of pain but obviously not manner? They always show the Corpun video Aceh Province caning but I would imagine that was an every day caning and might not be as hard as this long awaited one. Can you believe the courage she has shown even in talking about writing a book? Where is the shame there in a shame base society or is at this point the shame all theirs?

 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 20 2010, 8:21 PM 

Hi American_Way. I hate to disagree with you once again but I do not understand your post in which you said: I agree about them not following rules. Those 23 girls received the caning because the law of the school is their law.

Having read the original report, I see nothing that says that the girls were caned. They were sent for a run. The original text clearly reads that the only ones who were caned were male.

 
 
Lau Lee Sze

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 20 2010, 10:34 PM 

Regarding the caning of the 23 girls, I do not have any contacts whom I am able to really verify.

But I must say I agree with American Way's view on this matter. Comparing the initial & later edited version of the blog, the 'edited' version did not really add up. I quote from the cached version of their blog (as the original blog does not seem to be accessible):

*I was taken aback for what I saw today in the hall. 23 cute, adorable and gentle girls were standing in front of the stage! (See? I even count them) It was an unusual scene indeed. I was racking my brain to think whats going on when the phwack sound was heard and this aroused students attention. The boys reacted to the canning. The girls were not caned but punished with other punishment, like running.

Again, Mr. John Toh used his lovely cane to kiss those students(Guys) buttock. It was really a terrifying scene! Students were trying to explain the reason of the lateness, hoping to skip from the punishment. Unfortunately, I have to say, they had underestimated Mr. John and most of them winded up with their buttock kissed *

What I feel is - why would the author talk about the 23 girls in front of the hall without mentioning the boys at all... then suddenly, afterall the sudden visits and speculations that is in our forum add those 'boys' into the passage? I'm not entirely convinced.

I think teachers, when they cane, they don't really think whether the student is having periods or not. As I said before, most of the canings, in fact I'd say about 95% are done on hands - the very small minority is caned on the buttocks. I guess sometimes when the teachers are that angry to decide to cane a student, their rage/anger is strong and the last thing they will think in their mind is "is this student already past the time she has periods?"

You mentioned about caning results in lost of face. I guess whether a student feels embarassed by it depends on 2 factors - firstly what is the general culture of punishments in school, and secondly, what does the student personally feel about the caning.

On the first point, in my secondary school, the discipline teachers wait in front of the school gate. Any student who comes in late will be given a quick cane on the hand by him/her, then the student proceeds to class. It is quite a part & parcel of school life, and most students who are caned won't be too bothered.

On the second point, I guess at this day and age, most of us students have a viewpoint about what is considered okay, and what is considered excessive punishment. I know many of the girls who blog about their caning did not sound remorseful at all, and I think quite rightly so. They were caned for petty offences like being late, not dressing up tidily, or moving seats in class... Which I would classify as 'small things' and could be dealt with maybe a gentle reminder.

For me, I felt really embarassed about my caning in Form 3 which I mentioned before, and I attribute it to the fact that it was a more severe caning than usual, and the news that I was caned was quite 'shocking' to my classmates as well. Well, I was in the mathematics class when the teacher was really annoyed by me always not finishing her homework - my rationale is that she always give us like 50 questions to do per day, when I know maths is my strong subject and I felt doing 10 is sufficient practice for me. I must say it's not the first time I did not finish her work, it has been going on for days then. In the middle of the class, she loudly called me to go with her to the principal.

The principal and I have actually a really good relationship, I was one of the school prefects and very active in numerous clubs so he knows me well, and he was quite a fatherly figure to me. I was hoping that he will defend me, but he concurred with the teacher that what I did was not right, he was concerned that I am being 'too contented' with my achievement and he was concerned it will 'lead to my downfall'. And I guess my teacher's pushing also swayed him in a way. After the caning, as I was really sobbing, what he said did pierce my heart. He told me gently that he cared for me, and he said he felt sorry that he had to cane a school prefect and he hoped that I will change. And the teacher & I went back to the classroom with me still sobbing and I guess the sobbing as well as way I sat in class reveals that I have been caned. I felt shameful, but my principal did care for me after that, e.g. when he sees me in school he'll ask me how I am - in fact I was appointed by him to be the assistant head prefect of my school.

About why the caning of Kartika is left so long... I'm not sure. I have a feeling that it's a delay tactic, hopefully, someday, people who are following this news will get bored and forget about her... and they never implement the caning? Maybe the caning sentence was just meant to be a 'scare'? It's quite a pity how Kartika is now divorced, which she attributed to the stress of having to wait for the cane which strained his relationship with her husband.

 
 
winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 21 2010, 11:40 AM 

Lee Sze,your english have improved alot,just want to ask,is the pain of the caning cause you to cry.?

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 21 2010, 6:39 PM 

I'm glad you feel the same way that it was likely the girls were caned. Maybe hcj may want to weigh in on this? You're probably right about the menstruation and for other reasons girls stop getting hit when they are about 12 and boys are continued to be hit back to the early twentieth century has often been the case and not just on this continent.

 
 
American Way

Needless to say it is an open question

January 22 2010, 1:16 AM 

Hi: hcj But I hate to ask you this but would you say now after a careful reading of what appeared in my posting (copy and paste) in contrast to their doctored version: needless to say it's an open question indeed applies. I do you take at face value what is found on their blogsite now? American Way

I was taken aback for what I saw today in the hall. 23 cute, adorable and gentle girls were standing in front of the stage! (See? I even count them) It was an unusual scene indeed. I was racking my brain to think whats going on when the phwack sound was heard and this aroused students attention.

Again, Mr. John Toh used his lovely cane to kiss those students buttock. It was really a terrifying scene! Students were trying to explain the reason of the lateness, hoping to skip from the punishment. Unfortunately, I have to say, they had underestimated Mr. John and most of them winded up with their buttock kissed
Piack as no avail. It's like I counted 23 girls abiut to be punished in manner



I say boys are routinely caned and I don't think they would be making a big fuss about it. What's the big deal. That there were 23 of them maybe? But why would he count (cute, adorable and gentle) and even count them unless there was something unusual about this scene other than size of the group being punished? The student's attention was aroused because it was the girls getting it IMHO. Underestimating Mr John? It must have been an initial experience for the girls not the boys unless the boys who overslept were never caned. Highly unlikely.

The "lovely cane" to "kiss the students buttock" and winded up with their "buttock kissed". The attention to the buttock where else would a boy be looking at? I would be surprised if he would percentage wise (gay vs straight) be looking at his fellow boy's buttock. Nothing wrong with that of course.

It seems more like a damage control and our revisiting their revision was not what they wanted. The school wanted us to buy into their explantion and stop talking about it but the cat was already out of the bag. I for one didn't and heavily leaned toward the 23 cute and adorable and gentle girls having their buttocks by a lovely cane would be written by a boy taken a back from an unusual event and perhaps having too much time on his hand pondering it. wink.gif



 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 22 2010, 9:32 AM 

I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the webmaster's edits. Why would he/she choose to post something that was untrue on a public forum, when any of 23 witnesses might go to a publicist and bring the school and its managers into disrepute?

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 22 2010, 11:34 AM 

hcj Highly unlikely that any girl would do that she would face consequences. More likely the adminstration would do so not to face consequences. Hate to say this but thanks for weighing in on an open question. wink.gif

 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 22 2010, 2:11 PM 

So - what consequences would a girl face? Would she be prosecuted? Would she have her organisation closed down with a loss of her salary and pension?

You might like your adult fantasies about 23 girls getting caned - I don't believe it happened and I don't believe fantasy does anything to enrich this forum.


 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 22 2010, 6:18 PM 

hcj I won't dignify with a comment.

 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 22 2010, 8:29 PM 

American Way, you said: "hcj I won't dignify with a comment."

I'm sure you won't, because you do not know much about dignity - otherwise you would not have been so consistently rude to Another-Lurker or me, both many years your senior. The trouble is that you cannot bear anybody disagreeing with you and you do not care about their feelings. In your opinion, American Way is the only one who matters.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 22 2010, 8:52 PM 

I won't dignify that with a comment.

 
 
Lau Lee Sze

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 23 2010, 6:42 PM 

Winston: Thanks, I think a few years in university helped my English a lot more. To answer your question, I think it's a combination of different things that made me cry. Yes the pain was definitely one of the reason. But I guess a concoction of emotions came out during that few minutes in the office.

As I said, the principal is someone that I do look up to in the school. At first, before seeing him with my teacher, I felt that my reason for not doing homework is fair & valid, but when he told me he disagreed and he felt disappointed with me disobeying the teacher despite the teacher telling me off a few times, a concoction of feelings just swelled up suddenly. I really thought that time I will no longer be his favourite student anymore. I was scared he will sack me from my prefectorial post that time (and it will be a big issue when my parents realize I am no longer a prefect). And I feel disappointed/embarassed with myself during the punishment, I suddenly feel that all these is self-inflicted, and feel embarrassed/disappointed with myself that I am no 'longer' a good student, that I have been caned by the principal etc.

So I guess the pain definitely contributed, but the worries of no longer being loved by the principal and the feeling of guilt with myself all made me cry after the punishment.


Hcj & American Way: In Malaysia, most of the older generation (I mean 30+ - this include principals, district education officers, even parents) are generally fully supportive of caning as a way of disciplining students. So for a student to complain, there are 3 obstacles - their parents, the school principal, district education office.

Firstly their parents. Their parents may themselves agree with the punishment, they may feel that their children should not have disobeyed school rules. The children may be told off by their parents, worse off disciplined again.

Say if the children are from a family background which disagrees with caning, and the parents of the girls complain to the principal. The principal must have agreed with what the discipline teacher did, so there isn't much effect I think.

Then they complain to the district education office, what will happen? Very much nothing. The district education officers may just accept the complain and suppress it (firstly they may agree with caning as a disciplining method, secondly they may just feel 'another complain, another chore. Who cares about such 'petty' complaints). They may let the principal know that someone has complained, and that's about it. Remember, analogous to what happens in law, even when an offence is committed, it is up to the public prosecutor to decide if they want to prosecute.

And remember in Malaysia, many teachers will that the right to discipline students is a necessary power for them to control classes properly (remember many classes in Malaysia are large sized, like 30+ to 40+ students). I know from my relatives, some of who are students, that whenever a parent comes to complain to the teacher about their child being punished, their teachers will normally say to them, "if you want me to teacher your child, then you must agree with me disciplining your child. If you don't want me to, it's best if you move your child somewhere else. If not, if he/she's in my class, I won't care about his/her homework, etc."

Of course, while I agree with American Way that I feel that the 23 girls may have been caned, it will be ideal if we have better proof. E.g. if anyone else posts a blog about it?

 
 
hcj

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 23 2010, 8:26 PM 

Thank you, Lau Lee Sze, for your thoughtful message.

I do not deny that girls are caned in Malaysian schools, whether or not it is permitted by regulation.

In the case of the 23 girls, I am reminded of the immortal words of Donald Rumsfeld: There are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.

We know that pupils were caned.
We know that SMKTC webmaster has told us no girls were caned.
We know the webmaster's e-mail address if we need further clarification.
We know the name of the teacher who allegedly carried out the caning.

We do not know if any girls were caned.
We do not know the names of any of the 23 girls.
We do not know the names of any witnesses.

On the evidence we have, we cannot make an allegation that the 23 girls were caned by the named master.
On the evidence we have, We cannot make an allegation that the SMKTC webmaster is lying.
Anyone who does so risks legal action for defamation, however far from Malaysia they may live.

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 23 2010, 8:47 PM 

Fascinating. Did you read 23 girls caned of late?

 
 
winston

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 23 2010, 10:25 PM 

Studying in Englang costs alot,Stiring Pound to R.M. is 1 Pound=R.M 5.00.Must have costs your parents alot of $,by the way,what course you go for in U.?Did you still go back to your old school to say hello to your principal that caned you.?

 
 
Willy

School CP in Malaysia

January 24 2010, 12:05 PM 

Here is an interesting account by an Australian woman who worked at a boys boarding school in Malaysia in the eighties.

http://www.voy.com/217233/247.html

 
 
Winston.

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 24 2010, 1:42 PM 

Read wrongly,studied in U,not in England...sorry...

 
 

Amended blog

January 24 2010, 5:19 PM 

I think American Way probably has it about right - it is a male student talking with undisguised relish about SOMEONE being caned and there is the mention of 23 girls ... I've been to Malaysia and I don't think the Malay authorities would worry too much about what went on in a school for the Chinese community whilst the Chinese community itself would worry far more about students not achieving than about the means used to enforce discipline ... but they have to be seen to be compliant with the law in something which has now gone round the world!

 
 
American Way

Re: Corporal punishment in Malaysia

January 24 2010, 8:35 PM 

neilfrommanc. We are on the same page. It seemed to me to be an awkward amending. Although I have examined only in a cursory fashion the rest of the blogsite there has been nothing similar occurring in way of amendment since alaric caught the story. Nor maybe apropos to nothing but maybe of some relevance the word cane doesn't show up again in their search. They may not be going any where near disciplinary matters and considering it to be an internal matter. I would think parents to read about good things that go on in the school not their children's misbehavior.

 
 
American Way

Good grief they need more time.

March 10 2010, 5:46 PM 

March 8 TEMERLOH: The Sultan of Pahang Sultan Ahmad Shah said he would have to seek legal advice on the caning of former part-time model Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno for a syariah offence before making a decision.

Sultan Ahmad Shah said he had not receive any appeal against the sentence from Kartika Sari Dewi, 33.

Irrespective of the outcome Kartika didn't blink right up to her last chance to appeal. Truly she had the courage to submit to stare down the Sultan of Swat (Pilate). Herod to Caesar from here to eternity. No one wants blood for a beer on their hands. sad.gif

These are really trustworthy people so who am I to question their veracity that they won't mar her skin? The deal may be to keep her from becoming a writer. I don't trust them. Her husband first wanted to intervene and cane her himself. I hope Stella Artois doesn't take that lout back and she get out of that country ASAP and have herself a real beer. I can't believe a luxury resort would even serve Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. Are there any beer or ale drinkers out there that agree with me? There must be some Old Peculiars out there that do. wink.gif

Hopefully by post number 200 we will find out. It would be an appropriate and most significant milestone. Just not having me post about her should be reason enough to celebrate. happy.gif


 
 
Lau Lee Sze

2 seperate incidents of girls getting caned

March 19 2010, 8:48 PM 

Found some more blog postings of female students who were caned by their teachers.


Fromhttp://jongwc.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post_22.html (reading from her posts, she was in her Form 5, or 17 years old when she was caned last year)

"Title: Very Painful...

Today, I was caned by my teacher again
Last time I was already caned once
Today I was caned twice
And today's was extremely painful
Because my teacher caned really heavily.

Now, it's more than 10 hours already
But the cane marks are still very obvious
I hope I will remember my mistake
And not repeat it again."


Fromhttp://emily-emilyting311hotmailcom.blogspot.com/2009/09/blog-post_12.html, also another Form 5 student

"Title: Creating new history in secondary school life

Yesterday,
Which is also a Friday,
Really left me with a unforgettable event in secondary school

This is the first time since I entered secondary school that I was caned
And it's 3 strokes somemore.

When teacher returned the Physics papers
Teacher said those who did not answer according to his format
One mistake, one cane.
Over half of us in the class got caned.

Quite funny when we talk about it
Before the caning I was actually quite anxious
After being caned felt really painful
But there's a feeling of newness, haha.

We looked and compared each other's caning marks
Like we were very proud
Very cute
Haha

Of course I don't want to give my teacher the opportunity to cane me anymore
Otherwise I will feel very embarassed
So I cannot repeat the mistakes again"


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: 2 seperate incidents of girls getting caned

March 20 2010, 8:44 AM 

Hi Lau Lee Sze. I'm sorry that you've not had a celebratory splash of colour to celebrate your 200 post thread. I'll try and remember later today, as I'm in a bit of a hurry now.

A stray ',' has attached itself to the end of your second link above, which prevents it working. For those who have the necessary character set loaded and can read the language this link may do the trick. The blog seems fairly slow to load though. There are photographs which may or may not show the young lady concerned, in some of the archives. This one appears to include some school photographs.

For anyone who didn't notice, the photograph of the caned hand in Lau Lee Sze's first link in the post above expands to a large picture if clicked. Looks like a very precise bit of caning to me! Any comments by those unfortunate enough to have received this type of punishment?

 
 
davenhal

re 2 separate incidents

March 20 2010, 11:20 PM 

hi, yes it is a very precise bit of caning but off target, which should be the padded part of the hand ajoining fingers. this caning would be over the thumbs as well which would risk injury.

 
 
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