The statistics were collected for the Office of Civil Rights of
the U.S. Department of Education. They were collected every two
years, as similar ones still are. They were part of a survey
originally intended to monitor various school activities and special
needs from the point of view of racial discrimination, under Title
VI, but in the mid-1970s this was extended under Title IX to cover
sexual discrimination. Accordingly, from 1978 onwards school
disciplinary practices and so on were recorded separately for boys
and girls. There is no secret about the results -- they are public
knowledge, available in various major libraries.

The figures published are worked out for individual school
districts, then for each state, then for the nation as a whole.
There are of course an enormous number of school districts in the
U.S.A., so that even though (for example) over 6000 school districts
were surveyed in 1978 and over 3000 in 1982, this was really just a
very large sampling. However, in the southern states, where there
is or was most c.p., there tended to be special concerns about
possible racial discrimination, so most school districts there were
recorded.

The disciplinary measures -- suspension and corporal punishment --
are each recorded for a school district as a whole, not for
individual schools. The schools are listed (public schools, that
is), but only for race/gender breakdown in enrollment.

Nobody would imagine that the c.p. figures, as reported by each
school, then added up and passed on by district superintendents, are
true totals of what actually went on. It is very unlikely that they
recorded the c.p. given in the lowest grades, or given by coaches in
and around the gym, and so on. Many principals and some
superintendents obviously didn't (and don't) believe that it is any
outsider's goddam business how they keep order in their own schools.
But the overall picture is believable. The differences in the c.p.
rates from one state to another, and the gradual change over the
years, do ring true. If they are thought of as referring only to the
c.p. that principals would know about, as underestimates in general
and gross underestimates for some individual school districts, then
they are likely to be factual.

The c.p. figures are supposed to record the actual number of
students paddled in a year, regardless of how often, but some
principals and superintendents seem always to have been unclear about
this and to have reported the number of paddlings instead. There is
no way of knowing if they did so.

I'll quote first the figures for the states which used most c.p.
in the school year 1977-8 (collected 1978). I'll give the number of
students in the state recorded as having "received corporal
punishment administered by a principal or his/her designee as a
formal disciplinary measure", then what percentage that is of the
public school enrollment in the state, then the male/female breakdown
of the "received corporal punishment" number (as percentages). For
example, in Mississippi 53,388 students were recorded as being
paddled out of an enrollment of 487,473, which gives just under 11%.
Of the 53,388 paddled, 40,628 were boys (76%) and 12,760 were girls
(24%).

1. Florida 185,144 students got c.p. out of 1,513,285 enrolled,
which > 12.2% divided M 77% / F 23%

2. Arkansas 52,182 out of 442,294 > 11.8% divd. M 78% / F 22%

3. Mississippi 53,388 " " 487,473 > 10.95% " M 76% / F 24%

4. Georgia 101,980 " " 1,067,669 > 9.6% " M 79% / F 21%

5. Tennessee 81,747 " " 863,530 > 9.5% " M 78% / F 22%

6. Oklahoma 50,272 " " 539,639 > 9.3% " M 79% / F 21%

7. Texas 253,343 " " 2,808,985 > 9.0% " M 82% / F 18%

8. Alabama 58,651 " " 761,928 > 7.7% " M 81% / F 19%

9= Kentucky 40,999 " " 686,357 > 6.0% " M 80% / F 20%

9= Sth Carolina 38,446 " " 638,574 > 6.0% " M 80% / F 20%

11. New Mexico 15,929 " " 273,568 > 5.8% " M 78% / F 22%

12. Ohio 108,607 " " 2,063,951 > 5.3% " M 84% / F 16%

13. Nth Carolina 60,489 " " 1,170,311 > 5.2% " M 82% / F 18%

14= Indiana 53,045 " " 1,108,976 > 4.8% " M 85% / F 15%

14= W Virginia 18,953 " " 397,620 > 4.8% " M 82% / F 18%

16. Louisiana 38,705 " " 817,226 > 4.7% " M 83% / F 17%

17. Missouri 33,615 " " 883,665 > 3.8% " M 80% / F 20%

*

How likely was it, then, according to the figures, that a boy or
girl student would get paddled in the school year? For each of ten
states I'll give the number of boys recorded as being paddled as a
proportion of the male public school enrollment, then the same for
the girls. For example, in Arkansas 40,492 boys were recorded as
being paddled out of 226,590 boys enrolled, i.e. 17.9%, and 11,690
girls were recorded as being paddled out of 215,704, or 5.4%.

Boys first, "top ten" states:

1. Florida 141,661 boys paddled out of 775,374 enrolled, > 18.2%

2. Arkansas 40,492 " " " " 226,590 " > 17.9%

3. Mississippi 40,628 " " " " 249,626 " > 16.3%

4. Georgia 80,877 " " " " 547,272 " > 14.8%

5. Texas 207,625 " " " " 1,443,825 " > 14.4%

6. Tennessee 63,526 " " " " 443,729 " > 14.3%

7. Oklahoma 39,501 " " " " 277,760 " > 14.2%

8. Alabama 47,352 " " " " 392,624 " > 12.1%

9. Sth Carolina 30,927 " " " " 328,500 " > 9.4%

10.Kentucky 32,906 " " " " 351,921 " > 9.3%

And for girls, "top ten" states:

1. Florida 43,483 girls paddled out of 737,911 enrolled > 5.9%

2. Arkansas 11,690 " " " " 215,704 " > 5.4%

3. Mississippi 12,760 " " " " 237,847 " > 5.36%

4. Tennessee 18,221 " " " " 419,801 " > 4.3%

5. Oklahoma 10,771 " " " " 261,879 " > 4.1%

6. Georgia 21,103 " " " " 520,397 " > 4.06%

7. Texas 45,718 " " " " 1,365,160 " > 3.3%

8. Alabama 11,299 " " " " 369,304 " > 3.1%

9= Kentucky 8,093 " " " " 334,436 " > 2.4%

9= Sth Carolina 7,519 " " " " 310,074 " > 2.4%

*

All this, to repeat, is for the 1977-8 school year. It shows
Florida as the heaviest-paddling state per head. As regards girls in
particular, Florida is made out to be almost twice as ready to use
the paddle as, say, Texas or Alabama. It may be that principals and
superintendents in FL were unusually honest in reporting the facts,
but it is hard to see why, considering the hostility to c.p. that
must have been already building up in the state. And in general it
is very hard to imagine why anyone, anywhere, would report to the
Office of Civil Rights paddlings that had not occurred.

The figures for individual school districts in Florida are
available, and naturally they show big differences between one
district and another. Dade County, the largest and the most
Hispanic, records very little c.p., as you can well believe. Some
small school districts elsewhere in the state compensate with quite
drastic figures.

Paddlings 'per head'?

Is ' per head ' really an appropriate term under the circumstances?

Jess; It looks like you have done a lot of work to compile and post all of these percentages. I for one am very interested and would like to see any more figures you come up with.

I think you touched upon the fact that the smaller districts used far more CP than the large dist. did.The smaller dist. are generally located in the rural areas and the parents were usually farmers and blue collar workers who go to church every Sunday and believe in the old spare the rod mentality. They would be far more accepting of CP in the schools than city dwellers would be.

Another point you touched upon was the fact that the stats do not include use of CP by teachers in the classroom, which usually would be only two or three swats whereas the Principal always gave four to six swats or more.If the CP use by teachers and coaches was included, the numbers would be quadrupled or higher. I think most teachers would want to handle as much discipline as possible in the classroom so as not to look incapable of maintaining order in their own class. And almost any student would prefer a couple of swats from the teacher to a trip to the Principal. I think in the larger schools and school dist. only the Principal would be authorized to use CP.

I've seen some other stats. on corpun relating to schools that give high school students a choice between swats and detention. It shows that the older the students get the more likely they are to choose CP over detention.The surprising thing is that girls in their junior and senior years chose swats over 50% of the time.That was just in Texas. I don't recall any figures for other states.

During Summer of 1999 I taught in a summer school program run by Miami-Dade school district for 6th-9th grade -- though some of the kids were up to 16 years old.

The kids came came from several schools in the poorest and most crime-ridden (High-risk) parts of the Miami area. I'm not sure if the students had to have been extra troubled to get into this program but a few of them (almost 95% black btw) had quite serious issues and reputations for violence -- none of them had been in Juve. but many of them knew of other kids who were. There was one boy in particular who scared everyone -- the other kids as well as all the teachers -- he had a mean, threatening way of looking at you. This was my first teaching experience in the US and I was easily scared. The girls were much less threatening -- their biggest issue was sex -- many would come to school wearing the trashiest outfits possible -- The female teachers were told to offer these girls "fashion advice" regarding more modest dressing and getting boys and to keep a look out in the bathrooms for vomiting -- signs of pregnancy or eating disorders. Amongst both boys and girls there were a some who had psychological issues -- like depression or who showed manic, obsessive behaviors.

So regarding discipline -- there was no punishment except for expulsion of the program. The two directors (they were authority figures) had an "I'm tough and will not hesitate to bust your ass -- but I love you act" were respected. The teachers were just seen as people to help the students learn -- possbile mentor -- not authority exactly. Even though there were many "perks" in this program like computer classes, swimming, and other activities only available on the posh University of Miami campus, there was never any withholding of those activities privileges for misbehavior. In the case of classroom discipline - if an issue with a student came up -- there were special counselors -- who would be immediately called to talk with the student who would be immediately moved out of the class.
Some of the students had a regular counselor/case worker that they met with everyday regardless.
In general the kids were pretty good during class -- once two girls got in a fight in my class -- but there never were serious incidents -- just a general feeling of depression prevailed amongst students and teachers. I've haven't taught in the US since.


This was a bit of an extra-special program -- but I never even knew that the state of Florida officially sanctioned CP!! -- Miami-Dade county standards being significantly different than districts more North or it is an understatement. Jeb Bush can just eat his heart out.

I have found it difficult to warm to people on this forum. So many of them come over as cold and calculating. There are exceptions and Saro is one of them. She is a REAL person and so is Bob T. I would like to say thank you to both of them for bringing a bit of humanity to this board.

Thank you Tracey, you are very kind.

Saro; Did these classes take place on the University campus? If so,they would never allow CP to be used on their campus.It seems like I have read recently about protests in the Miami-Dade Co. area over the use of CP in the public schools and there may be something on the corpun site about that.

The schools in my area seem to have councelors for students of all ages. This is something that did not exist when I was in school. There were councilors in High School but not for younger kids.Teaching seems to have changed a lot since I was there.My son has separate teachers for math and reading and a third teacher for everything else and he's only in 1st grade.
This method must work very well for him, because he is at the top of his class.

Tracey -- thanks.

Bob T -- the program was held on the U Miami campus that year and the following -- but not before or after -- they rotated sites. U Miami's policies notwithstanding (this is a real word? -- I've never spelled it out before) I can't imagine any of the teachers considering CP -- those kids might have had friends take us out in a drive-by -- I exaggerate slightly -- but I'm sure CP would have brought the devil out of most of them -- or cowed them completely. The director -- who was a real principal during the regular term did seem like someone who might have wielded a flaming paddle -- but it was obvious that no one feared that option -- he was great with the kids. When the teachers were briefed -- it was never said "contrary to the regular school year because we're on U Miami's campus there's no CP. CP was never mentioned -- if it was an option druing the school year-- I never heard anything about it -- I did hear about how we couldn't send anyone to detention in the summer prog. as opposed to during the local school year.

I'll have to look up the Miami-Dade stuff on Corpun. Perhaps at less high-risk area schools -- maybe in Liberty City:)

At U. Miami the music department required some students to participate in 6 hours of straight-tone chorale rehearsal a week -- this was corporal punishment -- especially since the conductor behaved like a German Dictator humiliating singers whenever he could and he had a TA stand at the door and write up latecomers.

This story may be of interest:

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/7695815.htm

Start of article:

"Corporal punishment still prevalent in schools

JACKSONVILLE - Corporal punishment still exists in two-thirds of Florida's school systems, even though it has been abandoned by most of the larger districts, state records show.

There were 11,000 spanking incidents in the state last year, down from 184,000 in the 1981-1982 school year. Most of the larger school systems - including Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties - haven't used corporal punishment in the past five years."

Dear Saro; I found this article on the corpun website for the year that you were teaching there.

APB News, New York, 3 March 1999
Teacher charged with child abuse
Allegedly Beat First-Graders With 21-Inch Paint Stick
By Valerie Kalfrin

MIAMI (APBNews.com) -- A first-grade teacher faces federal child abuse charges tonight for allegedly using "Mr. Stick" -- a 21-inch stick used to stir paint -- to discipline her students, authorities said.

Assistant state attorneys Don Ungurait and Mindy Paurowski told APBNews.com they are still evaluating the evidence against Mariefrance Milhomme and will make a decision to file formal charges against her by March 22.

"Corporal punishment is not per se illegal in schools; it's a violation of school policy. At issue here is the circumstances under which she struck the children," Ungurait said, adding that the woman faces a maximum of 30 years in prison if convicted of all counts.

Milhomme, a 29-year-old Pembroke Pines resident who school officials said taught at Henry E.S. Reeves Elementary School for two years, was arrested Monday on six counts of "child abuse resulting in no great harm" after an anonymous call to the school prompted an investigation, authorities said.

Caught on hidden camera
The Miami-Dade County Public Schools Police Department, which handles allegations against employees, eventually placed a security camera in Milhomme's classroom closet, Lt. Dorene Baker said.

According to the arrest affidavit, Milhomme "directed a student to a closet inside her classroom," where the camera recorded her closing the door and beating the student with a 21-inch, heavy-duty paint stirrer with "Mr. Stick" written on it.

Milhomme spent Monday morning in Turner Guilford Knight jail and was released on $30,000 bond that afternoon, Baker said.

She has been assigned to the school district's regional administrative office pending the outcome of the investigation, said Dr. Henry C. Fraind, deputy superintendent of the 350,000-student school district.

None of the children was seriously injured, the affidavit said, but the beatings "could reasonably be expected to result in the physical or mental injury to the children." The document also said the students interviewed "consistently described the beatings" and told investigators they cried.

'The lady knew better'
"County guidelines clearly state that a teacher cannot use corporal punishment to discipline a child," Fraind said. "We have a preponderance of evidence that the teacher did it. ... The lady knew better."

Fraind said a number of parents have been supportive of the teacher, a sentiment echoed by Edward Tobin, Milhomme's Miami attorney, in published reports.

"I know she is well-liked by all of the parents, and she does a great job," he was quoted as saying. "She's a hard worker, and she will be exonerated."

APBNews.com was unable to reach the attorney for additional comment this afternoon. A woman answering the phone at Milhomme's house said the teacher was not home.

Valerie Kalfrin is an APBNews.com staff writer



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The final paragraph of the article mentioned by Dean reads:

The Leon County School district ended corporal punishment in 1991. Information for other counties in the Big Bend was not available late Monday.

Does the ‘Big Bend’ refer to the time that Texican principal paddled the whole school in under two hours?

Copyright Brian4JunkPosts

Dear Saro,

Anyone who is able to use the word ‘notwithstanding’ in their messages automatically becomes a member of our Clique, so welcome thereto!

Some of us in the U.K. may not be familiar with the expression ‘straight-tone’. Is this a style of singing in which the performers are not allowed to use vibrato?

Gillian

Gillian -- Thanks -- I look forward to gratuitously trying out more long, oddly-formed and superflous English words on the board.

Dean -- I'm guessing "Big Bend" refers to the state of Florida not the alleged event in Texas. I'll look the term up -- never heard it used before -- only lived in Miami for 1.5 years and Miami isn't like the rest of Florida. The statement that Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties don't use corporal punishment goes along with my impression of the school system BTW. Are you the Dean who is this boards authority on Australian school CP?

Bob T -- I also found the Milhomme article -- I think that the school she taught at is in North Miami -- where many of the kids I taught were from. I'm not writing any kind of argument re. Florida State's policies re. CP -- frankly above Broward county, Florida becomes more like the American South in terms of culture-- lots of religion, a Rich-Poor population schism, and not a few red-necks; however, I believe the local reaction shows that Milhomme was clearly breaking her county's (Miami-Dade's)anti cp stance. Had I read the newspapers or watched TV news regularly I might have caught the article on Milhomme -- but didn't and I never heard of it till now -- given the context of my summer teaching, it was never brought up -- not sure if that speaks to the incidence being usual, or if they wanted it to go away. Probably it just wasn't relevant -- it didn't need to be said that we had no CP options.
In my previous posts, I was indirectly getting at how different things are in Miami-Dade (probably Broward and Palm Beach too) compared with the rest of Florida in terms of demographics, politics and culture. Were'nt those the three counties affected by the faulty voting apparatus during the last presidential election? The greater Miami area could really be a different state altogether.

Dean -- Big Bend refers to a part of Northern (and Western)Florida where Tallahassee and those said counties lie. Big Bend is also the name of a National Park in Texas!!

Saro; I think you may have Big Bend confused with the Florida Panhandle.I know Tallahasee is located right in the middle of the Panhandle.

Completely confused. The Panhandle is that Northern Western part? The Big Bend is the middle Northern Part? I drove through Jacksonville once -- on the way to New York -- never came back.

Gillian -- yes straight-tone is vibratoless singing.

The Forida Panhandle is the part of the state that curves around the Gulf of Mexico in the Northwest and runs into Alabama,Mississippi,Louisiana, and then the Texas Panhandle.I have never heard of the Big Bend. I think Brian was going for the next 'Brian of the Week Award.'

‘Big Bend’ – I like the sound of the words. They’re the kind-a words that make me feel tight in the throat, like when a man sees his baby take his first walk or wins his first ‘Brian of the Week’ award. The Big Bend is a place where a man can buy or sell, be drunk or sober as he rafts the canyons, hikes the desert to forgotten Indian reservations and burnt down homesteads. Some words give ya a feelin’ in your belly: Big Bend are two of those words.

http://www.bigbendrivertours.com/

Hi Saro,

Yes, I'm the guy who keeps posting the Australian CP information. I'm a historian by training (with any luck, I'll soon be doing it professionally - I have interviews over the next month) and one of my great desires is to write a 'popular history' of Australian education - the bits people are actually interested in. Corporal punishment is one of those areas - one of the more significant for me - so I gather every single piece of historical information I can, and because I have bona fides as a historical researcher, I've even been able to get access to some records that aren't generally publically available. Most of what I've got it available to the public - just spread around hundreds of books.

I also do look at research and material from other countries - but I have less access to that. The post on paddling statistics though has inspired to get on with an analysis of some rather detailed statistics from 1950s England and Wales, and I'll post some of that as soon I have it in a form that makes sense.

‘Vibrato’ – I like the sound of the word. It’s the kind-a word that makes me feel tight in the throat, like when a man sees his baby take his first walk or plays his first solo in the style of Louis Armstrong or sings his first song like Des O’Connor. Some words give ya a feelin’ in your groin: Vibrato, or ‘jelly’ as them Texicans say, is one of those words.

Saro; I did some checking and I guess they call that 90 degree turn the state makes up in the north west big bend country.

1 Arkansas 35,679 students paddled out of 259,529 enrolled > 13.7 %
of which 77% were male (M) and 23% female (F).

2 Florida 183,890 " " " 1,484,917 " > 12.4 % " M 77% / F 23%.

3 Mississippi 54,664 " " " 458,675 " > 11.9 % " M 77% / F 23%.

4 Oklahoma 18,249 " " " 163,176 " > 11.2 % " M 77% / F 23%.

5 Tennessee 73,369 " " " 676,339 " > 10.8 % " M 79% / F 21%.

6 Alabama 72,088 " " " 720,679 " > 10.0 % " M 81% / F 19%.

7 Texas 204,012 " " " 2,060,984 " > 9.9 % " M 80% / F 20%.

8 Georgia 95,769 " " " 1,043,614 " > 9.2 % " M 79% / F 21%.

9 Kentucky 26,682 " " " 361,282 " > 7.4 % " M 78% / F 22%.

10 S Carolina 36,619 " " " 565,762 " > 6.5 % " M 81% / F 19%.

11 Ohio 45,512 " " " 788,424 " > 5.8 % " M 81% / F 19%.

12 N Carolina 58,515 " " " 1,066,501 " > 5.5 % " M 82% / F 18%.

13 Louisiana 38,664 " " " 752,887 " > 5.1 % " M 81% / F 19%.

14 W Virginia 7,230 " " " 150,764 " > 4.8 % " M 86% / F 14%.

15 Indiana 17,225 " " " 421,744 " > 4.1 % " M 86% / F 14%.

16 Missouri 12,598 " " " 444,786 " > 2.8 % " M 81% / F 19%.

17 N Mexico 1,824 " " " 99,523 " > 1.8 % " M 78% / F 22%.

If you compare these figures with those for 1977-8, you can see
that Arkansas has replaced Florida as the heaviest-paddling state.
That isn't too reliable as a conclusion, since AR has a fairly small
population and for some reason -- despite being in the south with
some Civil Rights problems -- far fewer of its school districts were
surveyed in 1981-2, so in its case the numbers may not be properly
representative. With Florida the numbers are much bigger and not
liable to chance distortion, and they come out very close to the FL
figures for 1977-8 -- or rather they show a slight increase over the
four years in the percentage getting c.p. In fact all of the 'top'
ten states in these lists except Georgia show an increase over the
four years, a big increase in the cases of Arkansas, Alabama,
Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky and Mississippi. If these figures are
giving a fair impression, the big decrease in the use of c.p. in
American schools had not begun in the first years of the 1980s.

Second list, boys, same school year, same states:

1 Arkansas 27,646 boys had c.p. out of 133,175 enrolled > 20.8 %.

2 Florida 140,968 " " " 763,975 " > 18.5 %.

3 Mississippi 41,899 " " " 235,202 " > 17.8 %.

4= Oklahoma 13,969 " " " 84,337 " > 16.6 %.

4= Tennessee 57,681 " " " 347,994 " > 16.6 %.

6 Alabama 58,330 " " " 370,306 " > 15.8 %.

7 Texas 163,719 " " " 1,058,479 " > 15.5 %.

8 Georgia 75,281 " " " 535,878 " > 14.0 %.

9 Kentucky 20,684 " " " 186,013 " > 11.1 %.

10 S Carolina 29,632 " " " 290,733 " > 10.2 %.

11 Ohio 36,670 " " " 406,092 " > 9.0 %.

12 N Carolina 47,919 " " " 536,844 " > 8.9 %.

13 Louisiana 31,381 " " " 386,921 " > 8.1 %.

14 W Virginia 6,208 " " " 77,727 " > 8.0 %.

15 Indiana 14,773 " " " 217,359 " > 6.8 %.

16 Missouri 10,613 " " " 228,447 " > 4.6 %.

17 N Mexico 1,414 " " " 51,253 " > 2.8 %.

Third list, same for girls:

1 Arkansas 8,034 girls had c.p. out of 126,354 enrolled > 6.4 %.

2 Florida 42,922 " " " 720,942 " > 6.0 %.

3 Mississippi 12,765 " " " 223,473 " > 5.7 %.

4 Oklahoma 4,280 " " " 78,839 " > 5.4 %.

5 Tennessee 15,688 " " " 328,346 " > 4.8 %.

6= Georgia 20,488 " " " 507,858 " > 4.0 %.

6= Texas 40,294 " " " 1,002,112 " > 4.0 %.

8 Alabama 13,758 " " " 350,373 " > 3.9 %.

9 Kentucky 5,998 " " " 175,289 " > 3.4 %.

10 S Carolina 6,987 " " " 275,029 " > 2.5 %.

11 Ohio 8,842 " " " 382,332 " > 2.3 %.

12= N Carolina 10,596 " " " 529,657 " > 2.0 %.

12= Louisiana 7,283 " " " 365,987 " > 2.0 %.

14 W Virginia 1,022 " " " 73,037 " > 1.4 %.

15 Indiana 2,452 " " " 204,385 " > 1.2 %.

16 Missouri 2,338 " " " 216,339 " > 1.1 %.

17 N Mexico 410 " " " 48,260 " > 0.8 %.

And I thought Big Bend was that clock tower near the end of Westminster Bridge!

I am delighted that Big Ben Driver has afforded me the opportunity to remind him, and all potential junk-posters, that I am the only contributor to this wonderful forum whose JunkPosts are approved, and indeed welcomed, by the management.

Copyright Brian4JunkPosts