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oldest punished or given school detention

March 7 2004 at 4:40 AM
Kattfish 

 
Students in some schools are subject to the paddle
as long as they are in school, even today. But just
who is the oldest person who was given either a
spanking/paddling at high school or a detention and
for what?

Title edited


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Nov 18, 2013 6:14 AM


 
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Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 7 2004, 5:21 AM 

I have read somewhere of young men in their early 20s - maybe up to 22 - being caned in Australian schools in the 1970s - they were migrant students sent to high schools to learn English.

Can't think exactly where I read that - it was a while ago. I think I'll need to go through my books again.

 
 

Re: Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 7 2004, 2:01 PM 

I was last caned at school when I was 16 ... my last detention was the same year.

 
 
Peter

A request

March 7 2004, 3:10 PM 

There have been some great posts on this forum this weekend and if Lady Pandora were to send the details of her last, or any, school caning, it would bring it to a perfect conclusion.

 
 

Re: Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 8 2004, 5:15 AM 

I've found the reference I was thinking of. As it turned out I was slightly misremembering the details, but as it's been around 10 years or so since I looked at this, I don't think I was that off.

The incident is described in Appendix B of the (Australian) Human Rights Commission, Discussion Paper No.1 Corporal Punishment In Schools and the Rights of the Child, issued in March 1983, prepared by Dr Helen Ware.

Appendix B consists of 3 'Incident Report Forms' collected by PTAVE (Parents and Teacher Against Violence in Education). The first of these three forms concerns the case I remembered. I don't have time at the moment to make the whole case study available (although it is free of Copyright).

It took place in 1981 (not the 1970s as I believed) and involved 2 18 year olds, 3 19 year olds, 2 20 year olds, and 2 21 year olds being caned at a NSW State Boys High School. All the students were Vietnamese migrants, which probably serves to explain their presence in a high school at such an advanced age - it was fairly common practice for migrant students only a few years older than the the normal school leaving age to attend regular school at that time.)

The study describes two incidents - in the first only one person was caned - 21 year old male given two strokes of the cane on his left hand for running in a metalwork classroom.

In the second, all 9 were given one stroke each across the hand for 'forgetting' (quotation marks indicating euphemism are in the original report) to bring their sports gear to school.

 
 
squirrel

sixth formers

March 10 2004, 9:50 PM 

In the UK it was unusual, but certainly not unknown, for 6th-formers (who might be 17 or at a pinch even 18) to get the cane. Two boys' senior high schools in Croydon - Selhurst and Purley - were still doing this occasionally in the early 1980s, a fact revealed when the local council was pressured into releasing CP statistics collated from its schools' punishment books.

 
 
Seth

Re:

March 11 2004, 3:16 AM 

Rupert Everett who was caned in the movie 'Another Country' must have been in his twenties, at the time.

At my school, members of the rugby first XV were said to have been caned if they lost a match. Not very sporting but it fits with the spartan ethos of the school. They were big lads, 17 - 18 years old, definitely younger than Rupert Everett.

 
 
Chris

detention or the slipper

March 25 2004, 6:00 PM 

The boys in the secondary school I was at had a system of detention or the slipper, most of the first formers who were age 12 seemed to chose the slipper than detention because of explaining to parents.

The rate was three of the best with a size 10 plimsoll, at the punishment session at a morning break time there would be a age range from 12 to 16 or 17, We soon noticed the teacher would whack at the same strength, all the first formers cried after they were slippered but the sting was less as the older boys were slippered and for the 16 or 17 years olds for them it was three firm taps.

Chris

 
 
KK

The caning of older boys

March 26 2004, 11:54 PM 

When I was at school forth formers (typically around 14 years old) probably got the most canings. Fifths may have received more strokes in a year because they tended to get more strokes per caning. Then came thirds - the cane worked very well as a deterrent for them.

Lower and up sixth formers were caned very much less frequently. They were all over the age for compulsory education (15) so were mainly at school willingly. And, they were in smaller classes and subject to a more relaxed regime. But, if they were caned, they really got it. Six-of-the-best was standard and it was really laid on hard. Even then, the embarrasment was worse than the pain as everybody included the most lowly third former got to hear about it. The oldest boys so caned would have been 18. Once, even the head prefect was done, a bg atheltic lad. We never discovered his crime.

A widely held view at the time was that cathartic caning was a much kinder option that suspension or expulsion.

 
 

Until Graduation

April 5 2004, 1:07 PM 

I went to a private high school in the U.S. in the 60's where paddling was frequent and strict. CP was administered by the assistant principal in charge of discipline. Mrs. Posner was especially tough on the seniors, 17-18 year olds, and didn't hesitate to bare the butt for her paddle!

Tony

 
 
Bob T

Re: Until Graduation

April 6 2004, 12:28 AM 

Yet another ration of rubbish from the one handed typist.
If anyone believes that this happened I would like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Apr 6, 2004 5:19 AM


 
 
Saro

Bob T Publically Edited

April 6 2004, 7:05 AM 

Sorry Bob. Public editings on this board are like public chatisements. I can't help being slightly amused at the edit messages that pop up on people's messages. It always makes me want to know what they said that had to be edited -- just like I used to want to know what my classmates did that got them whacked.

I'm assuming that the editing is done by forum mucky mucks, not the poster right? So Larry1951 is not yourself? Hope I have this correct or my amusement is pure silliness and all for naught.

 
 
Bob T

Re: Bob T Publically Edited

April 6 2004, 11:35 AM 

Dear Saro; I guess my choice of words were unacceptable. We can thank Carl and Mats or Gillian for their never ending vigilance.It was not totally unexpected. I should have used more asterisks.

 
 
Justin

Still caned!

June 16 2004, 7:20 PM 

Hi your guys!
I can tell you that I was at a boarding school in Kenya until
2001 (at that time I was at the age of 19) and that I got whipped nearly
till the day of my final exam was at hand.
If your were wrong or if you had done any misbehaviour, you had to go
to school master´s or prefect´s office and he had told you, that you should
lay aside your trousers and that you had to go in punishment-position (that means:your hands
have to tie around your ankles.
The school master always had a pot of water in which stood a number of canes
and a tawse was on his desk.
You had to count the lashes and afterwise to thank the school master for punsihing
you for that misbehaviour.
At some times,ten of us were caned one after another.
If your shoes were not polished,you would get two to five strokes with a ruler on your
hand´s palm or on your fingers.
Me and my brothers lived with corporal punsihment since I can
remember.
Even today my father would surely spank us if we would behave badly to him.
I´m now a student of american history and political sciences.

 
 

Re canings

July 5 2005, 5:41 AM 

I was caned at the age of 19 in a U.K. grammar school 1968. I'd stayed on for 3rd. year 6th. after A levels to do Cambridge entrance (unsuccesful) & had turned 19 in early July 1 week before the end of the school year.
In that last week, with nothing to do & my place at Bristol University unconditional, I'd skived off the afternoon to go to the swimming pool in Northampton.
Result - bend over & touch toes for 4 strokes in the Head's study. I admit it was far from being my first time, but the whole procedure was no different from when I was a 14-year-old; he didn't seem to differentiate.
At the time, one of my former classmates from primary school who'd gone through the Sec. Mod. and left at 15 was married & had a new baby girl!


 
 
KK

A convenient expedient

July 5 2005, 7:44 AM 

End of school year caning of senior boys was relatively common in earlier times in my experience. Caning provided a quick, easy and relatively "painless" solution to an otherwise intractable problem. Discipline would be seriously compromised if no action was taken and other, younger boys followed suit. Many thought it much better just to cane than to take other measures, assummimg other measures were available.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Re canings

July 5 2005, 9:09 AM 

If current theories regarding the existence of an infinite number of universes are correct, it may well be that there is a universe in which Paul was caned at a UK grammar school at the age of 19.

But it sure as hell ain't this universe!

 
 

Re your reply to my posting

July 6 2005, 2:20 AM 

Sorry, but it was this universe! As I've said in my e-mail to you, the completely uninspiring gentleman concerned dealt with, and spoke to, upper sixth as he did to 11-year-olds.
Obviously I'm pushing my case here as I was only 19 by a few days [ & I had gone off for the afternoon after requesting his permission and being specifically refused] but I was responding to a specific question about oldest cases and they're the facts.
I am quite sure he didn't realised I'd turned 19, but I doubt he'd have cared. I'm also quite sure in my mind of his 'normality' and had no weird/sexual motivation. He was just a typical product of those times who worked on the premise, "If it's in a school blazer, hit it. That'll do the trick".
Looking back over 37 years, who's the idiot?; him for not having an educational idea in his head or me for putting up with it?
PK

 
 

Thank you for your response

July 6 2005, 3:35 AM 

Thank you for your response. I can see that he probably took the 'easy option', & I had in fact gone out after he had refused me permission already so it was what was called in those days 'straight defiance'. Also, I was only 19 by a couple of days and I'm sure he wasn't aware of this.
My point is that his ONLY response was to hit; it was the panacea for all ills, regardless of age.
As a schoolmaster until 1991 I administered my fair share of CP; it was indeed the 'easy option'. Now older, I hope wiser and working in FE, I question the whole concept. Exactly what was he going to achieve by doing what he did? If it was in front of a class or the school then, fair enough, it would be some kind of 'example'. But what was the use (except expediency, your point) of this ludicrous ritual in private with a [just] 19-year-old?
I am sure there was nothing wrong with the man [see my posted reply to 'Lottanonsense']; he was a product of his time.
I came to this site by accident and my main reason for responding was that I was caned at 19 and there was a specific question about 'oldest'. But I feel this is not the point. The Vietnamese cases cited are all very well, but I have Vietnamese students where I now work and the fact is one can easily envisage a 21-year-old as about 17 by stature.
One can easily mistake a 21-year-old Vietnamese for teenage, and our Head probably had no idea I was 19 all those years ago.
The point is, speaking as one who has both received and given CP, were we terribly wrong?
PK

 
 
squirrel

Re: Re canings

July 10 2005, 8:43 PM 

Lotta Nonsense wrote:

-- If current theories regarding the existence of an infinite number of universes are correct, it may well be that there is a universe in which Paul was caned at a UK grammar school at the age of 19. But it sure as hell ain't this universe!

-- For once I must disagree with Lotta on a question of plausibility. While I normally share her scepticism about anecdotes that are almost certainly fantasy, in this particular case, from other evidence I have seen, I can believe that Paul's account COULD be true for that particular kind of school in the 1960s.



 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Re canings

July 11 2005, 10:06 AM 

Paul's failure to name the school and the headmaster makes it extremely likely that his story is a fantasy.

Additionally, one of the hallmarks of the 'pork pie' is that it defies common sense and I see no sense whatever in a schoolboy accepting a caning when there is absolutely NOTHING the school can do if he refuses to accept it.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Re canings

July 11 2005, 8:56 PM 

but in those days boys just did accept canings! We can say now, in 2005, that they needn't have done, but this fails to recognise the culture of those times.

 
 
squirrel

Re: Re canings

July 11 2005, 8:59 PM 

sorry, the above was me. I might add that there are quite a few well-documented cases of schoolboys getting the cane on their last day, when clearly from today's perspective we would say why didn't they just refuse.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Re canings

July 11 2005, 10:07 PM 

I've said many times on this forum that almost anything is possible and Paul's story is by no means sufficiently outrageous to merit cries of "Liar!"

However, for reasons previously stated, I have difficulty in believing the story.

There is simply no reason to withhold the name of the school and the headteacher - other than that it would lay the story open to being disproved.

 
 
KK

Old old ground

July 12 2005, 2:00 AM 

There have been several discussions concerning the reluctance of those posting messages here to disclose details of who, when and where. Lotta does not like it, or understand, but it is a fact that many do not wish, for a variety of reasons, to name schools or give specific dates. This does not necessarly raise doubts about the truthfulness of their posting. Non salacious Male/male accounts without too much detail about what was worn or words spoken tend to be more plausible. I know that senior boys were caned in the 1950's and 60's with very little fuss or bother.

It is good to have a few skeptics about but they need to be plausible in their skeptism to give best value.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Old old ground

July 12 2005, 10:53 AM 

There are indeed circumstances in which it would be folly to reveal the names of one's school and headteacher.

However, the story in question doesn't qualify and neither do the vast majority of others.

And let's not forget that the fact that certain things are known to have happened to some people (and sometimes thousands of times to thousands of people) does not mean they happened to everyone who claims they did.

 
 
KK

Judging things in context

July 15 2005, 8:46 PM 

Paul wrote (in part):

Looking back over 37 years, who's the idiot?; him for not
having an educational idea in his head or me for putting up with it?


Paul, I believe you were both products of your times. Yes, it does seem strange looking back now but then it was the established order of things. Authority was respected. We conformed and just went along with things.

I am interested in whether you suffered any lasting harm from your caning. I presume you had a bruised and sore backside for a few days after but what was your mental state, at the time? Did you feel aggrieved, bitter - or did you just accept it as "just one of those things"?

Is or was your objection to being treated as an 11 year old or did/do you object to being punished for deliberate defiance? What would have been a more appropriate response from the teacher?

Paul, to partially satisfy Lotta (if that is possible ) could you please give the year and city or county where you were at school.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Judging things in context

July 15 2005, 9:58 PM 

"Paul, to partially satisfy Lotta (if that is possible) could you please give the year and city or county where you were at school?"

Paul has already told us it happened in 1968 but, even if he hadn't, what earthly use is the year and the city or county in which the incidents allegedly took place?

If the school and the headteacher are not positively identified, the story must be dismissed as a fantasy.

 
 
Danny

Doubts

July 24 2005, 5:17 AM 

I am always amused at the way Lotta jumps in on almost every post here to tell us why it is a complete lie. If I read a forum and think everything said in in it is complete trash, I don't go there again.

I left school in 1950 and can assure Lotta and everyone else that it was acceptable in those days for boys (I cannot comment on the experiences of girls) to be regularly beaten. We accepted it - we had to - who could we object to? There were no Social workers and our parents would never go up to the school and complain (in fact, they would probably have given us another walloping for getting into trouble in the first place).

My grandson (14) and I were discussing his friend who had been suspended for two weeks and I said he should have had the cane instead. I said that being sent home from school for a fortnight to play on his gameboy etc was no punishment. He looked at me in amazement and then said "No one would whip me!"

I realised then that Lotta has that same way of thinking. What she and others cannot accept is that things have changed and thinking has changed. Then it was considered 'unmanly' to complain about a few whacks with a cane or a slipper. After all, men were working down coalmines and others getting killed in their thousands in WW2.
There was a well known case of a few dozen boys rebelling against corporal punishment in the late 40's - what happened? They were all caned!


 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Doubts

July 24 2005, 9:29 AM 

"Lotta jumps in on almost every post"

With great respect, Danny boy, that's somewhat exaggerated, isn't it?

If you look back through the mists of time, you'll find relatively FEW postings that attracted responses from my good self.

However, if we look back through those same mists we'll also find ample support for your claim that countless boys suffered CP at school - but has that ever been disputed?

Yes, we're all aware that millions and millions of boys were caned and slippered and otherwise 'abused' at school but, having allowed that, readers of this forum would be hard put to quote many postings in which I question the veracity of claims made by males in respect of CP received by themSELVES and their school friends.

In the cases of male recipients of CP, only postings in which clothing is alleged to have been removed will usually be questioned by me.

In the case of female recipients, the usual doubt expressed by me concerns the actual gender of the person claiming to be the female recipient.

Longstanding readers of these hallowed pages will agree that where contributors make reasonable claims, my responses will be similarly reasonable.

 
 
Danny

re re doubts

July 24 2005, 10:46 AM 

Dear dear Lotta
please don't get so het up about someone critisising your posts, we all know you would never indulge in such a thing - I have given myself a slap on the wrist!
I haven't been following this forum for the years you obviously have but in the time I have I have seen your name come up very regularly - and always to belittle the poster, never to agree or comment in a reasonable way with the post.
Perhaps I'm wrong, I very often am, but other people who know you better may like to state an opinion here. All I am saying is that we can all decide for ourselves whether a poster is genuine or not. I don't care very much one way or the other and I certainly wouldn't ask for proof of a posters validity. It seems to me that you very interested in the subject but need to put across the impression that you don't believe a word of anything said here. Why? If it happened, as you say you know it did, then there are people out there who can share their experiences with others. Some may sound strange but there were many strange school masters out there at that time. I know of a few who would be locked away today.
Where I agree with you SHOCK! SHOCK! is in doubting many of the 'bare bottom caning' claims. Personally I never heard of it in my day but I now believe that it was fairly common in Public Schools, and even at some Prep Schools. However, never having had that privilege I can't comment on the posts of those who did go to them.

 
 
Spokesperson for the Happy Circle

Re: re re doubts

July 24 2005, 12:39 PM 

The Happy Circle say “Hooray for Lotta!”

These fantasists who send in rubbish need to know that we know that they are fantasists.

Lotta is the one to tell them that we know that they etc.

Danny:
Keep posting!



 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: re re doubts

July 24 2005, 2:27 PM 

Oh, Danny Boy!

Where would be be if we chose not to challenge those who claim to have been caned naked and dangling helplessly by their ankles from the ceilings of their Headmasters' offices?

Surely, such outrageous offences against our common sense, our experience and our intelligence should not go unremarked upon?

However, it would be a harsh critic indeed who accused me of belittling any contributor to these pages in circumstances where he or 'she' had not first set out to do the same to me.

The only major conflicts that spring to mind are those involving Fake Headmaster George and Antipodean Strap Fanatic Dean and his charming yet wholly imaginary wife.

None of the above was belittled. They were simply 'well trounced'.

As for other fantasists, we don't belittle them. We simply dismiss them.

 
 
Danny

Doubting Thomas

July 24 2005, 2:39 PM 

I stand corrected. My deepest apologies.

 
 
Harsh Critic

Re: Doubting Thomas

July 25 2005, 12:26 AM 

Lotta Nonsense

No doubt your comments are to some degree well thought out and intentioned, but sometimes you just scare off people who are trying to realistically contribute to this forum. We all know the world is full of tossers. You only have to visit your local supermarket car park to see that, but give them a chance, then if it's clear that they're just fantasists then make the appropriate comments. Sometimes you are very quick to condemn people who contribute to this forum, perhaps for the first time, and are naturally somewhat timid, or perhaps do not possess your skills with the English language. Give them at least a chance to express themselves. Even murderers are entitled to this, though they may not do it very well. What gives you the right to be judge. jury and executioner in all cases?

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Doubting Thomas

July 25 2005, 7:47 AM 

Actually, there's no need to be afraid.
Our wish is only to let in light and to banish shade.
For in a world of CP, we welcome both girl and boy
Who have their tales to tell of CP times.

Danny Boy (does he hail from the provinces or does he have a London derriere?) was similarly concerned but my friendliness and unfriendliness to those posting upon these pages is a matter of public record and that record remains open for all to see.

You'll find scant evidence of my attacking either those posting credible accounts or those posting incredible accounts with accompanying evidence.

 
 
Andy

Oldest spanked at school

July 28 2005, 2:57 PM 

The Corpun site gives an account of an American undercover policeman who was attending high school as a student to investigate drug dealing at the school. Apparantly another policeman had been discovered by one of the students who knew he was a cop so he left and was later replaced by this cooleague who was in his mid 20's.

He had been attending the school for some weeks and had found out about a drug dealer who was ready to make a drop at the school later in the afternoon. There had a problem at school with latecomers and the principal decided to initiate a crackdown this particular day. The undercover cop was one of several "students" who was reported for being tardy. The punishment was a choice of a paddling or detention. The cop had no choice but to accept a spanking otherwise he would miss out on the drugs drop after school. He dutifully bent over and was spanked 3 times with the paddle.

He reported the incident to his superior officer and the incident was reported in the local newspaper after the mission was concluded and the cop had cop left school.

 
 

sorry for late reply

August 3 2005, 3:23 AM 

Sorry not to get back sooner, but I'd no idea this would lead to further correspondence.
Wellingborough (Northants.) Grammar School, c. early July 1968.

I can honestly say my reaction was completely neutral. I had no resentment at the time at "being treated as an 11-year-old" possibly because it was an element of school humour that the gentleman concerned never noticed his charges growing up! His general demeanour towards the sixth form was the butt of many a joke, and indeed there were occasional references in class from iconoclastic junior staff about his attitude in staff meetings which matched our 'Victorian'perception of him.
You must view this incident against a background whereby, although I achieved academically, I had been a 'regular' in his study (c. 1/2 times a year) throughout my schooldays so I can't say there was any psychological effect; I repeat, I came to the site by accident and responded specifically to the 'oldest' question.
At the time, it was damned annoying and the source of amusing conversations. Had it been a first experience, however, the outcome could have been more traumatic.
'Products of our time' indeed: but was the whole system playing with fire?
PK

 
 

apologies for late reply

August 3 2005, 3:34 AM 

Sorry, didn't realise this would lead to further correspondence.
See my reply to KK.
Wellingborough Grammar School (Northants.), early July 1968, Harold Wrenn was the Headteacher.
Your stance, that many postings are fantasies, may be essentially sound; but you must realise things like this DID happen, and there ARE some of us trying to contribute to serious debate. You have my real name, e-mail, & full details of the incident.
I've no particular axe to grind, just details to give.
PK

 
 

late reply

August 3 2005, 4:03 AM 

Apologies again for late return to this corrspondence. See my reply top your earlier postings. One of MY main worries, looking back, is just why did we accept it? I think I mentioned in my first posting that, at the time, one of my ex-primary-school friends was already married & had a baby; yet here was I unquestioningly submitting to something I had become cultured to accept as 'normal'.
It had no deep effect on me, possibly because [see my earlier reply to KK] it was not a new experience. However, refuse? - we had no mental map for that; and that's the chilling thing!
PK

 
 

re your postings

August 3 2005, 4:12 AM 

Sorry for late reply: I didn't realise this would lead to further correspondence. Please see my replies to 'KK' and 'Lotta'.
One of my main points is that, as you say, "boys just accepted canings".
We were prepared for the country's top Universities, educated to the hilt, but in terms of saying "No" to "Bend over" we had no mental map.
And these were the 'golden days'?
PK

 
 

thank you

August 3 2005, 4:50 AM 

Thanks. I have responded v. late because I didn't realise there would be any follow-up to this. Please see my replies to KK and "Lotta nonsense".
Not blaming anyone in particular, but when one responds in pefectly good faith to a question about such a sensitive topic as being caned, using real name and details, it's annoying (though of course understandable) to be doubted.
PK

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: re your postings

August 3 2005, 6:21 PM 

Paul is clearly a raving fantasist of the homo-erotic variety.

Could he be Dean's long-lost brother?

 
 

final disillusioned reply

August 6 2005, 6:14 AM 

'Lotta'-
This 'raving fantacist of the homo-erotic variety' merely responded to a correspondence about 'oldest' CP. My attention was brought to the site for other reasons & I found the correspondence by accident.
I recounted my experience as a serious contribution to debate.
In response to your doubts, & at 'KK's instigation, I have provided details.
I repeat, your sceptical attitude is a sound starting position. However, if you are determined to rubbish every contribution offered you will inevitably alienate genuine contributors, as you have alienated me, and leave the field open solely to fantacists.
I would like to think this might make you think, but I fear the reply will merely be another burst of invective.
I provided details of a sensitive personal experience, albeit from many years ago, because I believed I was dealing with a genuine discussion.
Too late, I noticed that I was the only one using his real name.
I now exit this discussion in disgust. My e-mail, p_kitchener@hotmail.com is freely available to anyone who wishes to contact me.
My position is that I received CP as a schoolboy, used it in my early years in teaching (1970s), but now [still in education but working in FE] look back on the situation with grave doubts.
The situation is academic for UK but still very much alive for the developing world.
My stance is that, on the whole (though there were exceptions) practitioners were not sexually-motivated but blindly following a cultural mould. Victims were 90% unaffected but there were others damaged for life.
The precondition was ignorance, not deliberation.
The man who caned me had no ulterior motivation whatsoever; even had he had, his imagination probably didn't stretch that far! I can talk about it candidly because it didn't affect me psychologically (at least so I feel) but although I cannot point to any of my personal acquaintances adversely affected by CP I have read of instances that give me pause for thought.
Is this a genuine debate, a forum of the maladjusted or an electronic slagging-match?
Sorry to sound so harsh but I gave a contribution in good faith, responded to a request for more details &b various other messages and then found myself re-attacked.
Paul

 
 
Danny

Lotta

August 6 2005, 10:18 AM 

I still cannot understand the reason for this contributor's outburst at almost every post. If you are in a mind to disbelieve everyone here, Lotta, why stay?
I too was rubbished for my contribution (not by Lotta, I hasten to add) but I have seen no positive reaction to any serious post in the few weeks I have logged on to this site.
Like you, Paul, I won't bother again.
Good luck to all who try to add something worthwhile here. They'll need it!

 
 
Froggy

And me

August 6 2005, 11:20 AM 

I cant be bothered either.

 
 
KK

Paul v's Lotta

August 6 2005, 9:00 PM 

I value Paul's recent positive contributions highly. By contrast, Lotta's comments have not been useful.

Lotta, you have strayed from open skeptism about postings that many might have suspicions about to apparent total disbelief of everything including things some of us know from person experience did happen. Why have you done this?

Perhaps you could ouline your personal experience of school cp by way of an example. What happened to you and what did you see?

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Paul v's Lotta

August 6 2005, 9:51 PM 

"Total disbelief of everything"?

I think you'll have some difficulty finding a posting of mine in which I suggest that NOTHING ever happened to ANYbody ANYwhere at ANY time.

Indeed, I recall several postings in which I suggest that almost ANYthing one can imagine probably happened to SOMEone SOMEwhere at SOMEtime.

However, the fact that something undoubtedly happened to SOMEbody (or even to millions of people) is no evidence that it happened to an unidentified contributor to this forum who chooses to claim it DID happen to him or her.

If you prefer to believe Paul's story, that's fine by me. It's certainly not the LEAST believeable story you'll find on this forum.

In any event, I shall not be entertaining (or boring) readers with my own experiences (or lack thereof).

 
 
alaric

this seems to be real

August 16 2005, 9:15 PM 

They do things differently in Africa. Here is a young woman who has apparently gone back to high school as a 21-year-old in a class of mainly 13-year-olds, and gets caned when they do! There is a picture of the lady in question.

http://newvision.co.ug/detail.php?mainNewsCategoryId=&newsCategoryId=31&newsId=428630


 
 
Donal

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 15 2005, 1:23 AM 

I have only just discovered this very interesting forum. As an Irishman I can testify to the fact that I was well thrashed into my late teens. I was at boarding school in Ireland in the late 70s and even at 18 I took several hidings. Admittedly it was not the cane, but the strap in use was blooming sore and was not a trouser belt but specially designed for the purpose.I would also say that it was the norm for most lads my age at the time.

 
 
Ali

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 15 2005, 9:41 PM 

Not corporal punishment, but when I finished school in 1991 sixth formers were sometimes given detentions or written punishments. It never happened to me at that age but I remember others aged up to 18 getting them. One time I remember well was in my final year when a gorgeous girl in my maths class got caught grinding some chewing gum into the carpet. The teacher made her stand in front of her desk and gave her a really good talking to, having her almost in tears by the end. She then gave her an hours detention every night for a week.

I found the whole incident quite memorable, but I do so wish she'd been given a damned good caning instead

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 19 2005, 11:04 AM 

I went to a private school in the U.K. and had to write out a thousand lines when I was 18 years old.

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 19 2005, 11:58 AM 

That's nothing.

I have friends who'd snorted a thousand lines before they were 18.

 
 
typical yank

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 18 2005, 12:26 AM 

Certainly for many high school seniors to be paddled is and was avery commom experience.Normally it is administered by the principal or school administrators or coaches.Most seniors are 18 and even 19 leaving school so many a butt gets or was tanned before leaving school.My butt waas roasted by the "board of education2 when a senior and it is common to take swats instead ofdetention etc.

 
 

chris

November 18 2005, 2:34 AM 

how are you doing i am doing good and i see that you was spank in school and that is good and you need it maybe ok



craig english

 
 

re oldest spanked

November 18 2005, 2:29 PM 

One of the latest updates on the Corpun Website is about a 21 year girl who went back to school (African Country) and was subject to the cane the same as the rest of the class.

 
 
bonanza

Re: re oldest spanked

November 26 2005, 2:08 PM 


I read that same article and it seemed to be completely factual. I was once chatting to a 19 year old lad on the British Spanking chatroom. He was a student at Cambridge and had only recently left a top private school in South Africa. He told me he was last caned at 17 and was regularly slippered.




 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: re oldest spanked

November 27 2005, 12:13 AM 

"I was once chatting to a 19 year old lad on the British Spanking chatroom. He was a student at Cambridge and had only recently left a top private school in South Africa. He told me he was last caned at 17 and was regularly slippered" says Bonanza.

No, Bonanza.

No. No. A thousand times no.

You were NOT chatting to a 19 year old lad on the British Spanking chatroom who was a student at Cambridge and had only recently left a top private school in South Africa and who told you he was last caned at 17 and was regularly slippered.

You were, in fact, chatting to middle-aged fantasist who fantasised that he was a 19-year-old student at Cambridge and who also fantasised he had only recently left a top private school in South Africa and who also fantasised that he was last caned at 17 and was regularly slippered.

Let's all get one thing straight about spanking chatrooms - only the boring characters are genuine.

The handsome sexy young men and beautiful sexy young women are almost all tired, sad, middle-aged men who spend their lives chatting on the net about their imaginary spanking experiences with anyone gullible enough to listen.




 
 
bonanza

Re: re oldest spanked

November 28 2005, 9:54 PM 


Again Lotta Nonsense, I beg to differ. I exchanged emails with this guy and we talked about many different aspects of student life, as I was just about to start my final year of University when I first started chatting to him. We actually did not chat that much about cp, as we became good friends. He was very genuine and we even arranged to meet up, but it never came off due to work committments etc. I was also good friends with a young lady at University who grew up in South Africa, where her mother was a teacher. She attended a private school and told me that cp was very much in use and still is very much in use to this day.

I am certainly not a middle aged man, I have only just entered my mid-twenties.









 
 

me and brothers

December 8 2005, 7:33 AM 

im 17 and i still get paddled big time
when two bros was 18 they got alot of swats and harder
then other bro age 15 and 16 and 14 and 13 all paddled.
now one bro is 19 and gets swats too hes 12 grade now
bare butt at times for us all and some pants up
i rather get grounded sometimes depends too

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: me and brothers

December 8 2005, 9:26 AM 

I can't help but feel that Shawn's claim would carry more weight if the Internet were not groaning under the weight of his requests to see boys' bare bottoms.

http://users6.cgiforme.com/tgfm/messages/313.html


 
 
Bangbang

Caned

December 10 2005, 5:34 PM 

I from Korea and caning is common in most families even up till now. I am 19 male and still made to kneel down in front of my father to receive canings whenever I make mistakes. I am made to count the number of canings I get and must say "I am sorry father I shouldn't have done it" after each stroke. Can receive as many as 15. My brother who is 22 receive the same punishment whenever he make mistakes

 
 

Oldest

May 2 2006, 5:22 PM 

I was never caned at school but I got spanked twice in the 5th form at grammar school, aged 15. At that age it was more normal to get lines or detention or for more serious offences to be sent for the cane so it was pretty embarrassing being told to bend over in front of the class to have my bottom smacked !

It wasn't until I went to 6th form college that I was ever sent to the Headmaster and they didn't use the cane. Had the same rules and punishments applied as had done in grammar school my last caning "would have been" at 18.

 
 
alaric

19-year-old schoolgirl caned

August 11 2006, 11:30 AM 

Found the blog of a girl age 19 who says she was caned a fortnight ago at SMK Permas Jaya, a secondary school in Johor (southernmost state of Malaysia, just across the causeway from Singapore). I'm pretty sure this is genuine.

She says it was a mass punishment - girls caned on the palm, guys on the backside - and there is a pic of 7 of the girls in their uniforms, showing their caned palms! Also a pic of a couple of guys in the classroom who were perhaps included, NOT showing us their caned backsides, unsurprisingly.

Not clear whether they are all 19. I slightly doubt it. Probably she is "retained" i.e. has had to do a year over again so will be a year older than the rest of the class. She seems to be in Form 6 which I think is normally age 17/18.

It's not unknown for boys of 18 to get the cane in Singaporean and Malaysian schools but I think this is the first time I've come across evidence of senior girls getting it. In theory girls may not be caned in either country. This rule is strictly enforced in Singapore but not in Malaysia. But even there, my impression is that it's usually much younger girls than this.

The blog is written in Manglish. "Kena" means "get" or "got" or "receive" or "received".

As she says ... "Imagine - 19 yrs old, still kena caning".

The punishment was given because they all bunked off a workshop they were supposed to attend the previous day. The implication seems to be that they all did this knowing they would get caned, or at any rate punished somehow, on returning to school on the Friday morning. So not perhaps a very effective deterrent in this case.

Here's the URL:
http://charlotte-charlett.blogspot.com/2006/07/270706.html

My reason for thinking this is real and not a hoax is that all the rest of the blog looks entirely humdrum and plausible, and the caning is mentioned in a quite offhand and matter-of-fact way. And if it had been written for titillation the author would no doubt have claimed that the girls had received the caning on the same part of the body as the guys got it. And I checked the name of the school, and it does exist, and that is its uniform that we see in the pix.

 
 
Sill Lee Asso

Re: 19-year-old schoolgirl caned

August 11 2006, 12:06 PM 

Is good to see alaric back from his holidays and messaging again, even though he has told me to go away before. I bear no malice, yes please. I sent comment to charlotte which will probably be deleted very soon, so here it is for all latecomers -

Next time there is caning, ask teacher "Can have it on bum, please?" Is much better and leave a warm glow in buttocks. And to your wish list please add cycle short - good for taking caning in.

 
 
Du Chang

A Singapore Schoolboy

August 15 2006, 9:46 PM 

I have just found this site and i am surprised thast anyone should think that caning an 18 year old is unusual. I am a 17 year old boy at a strict boys school in Singapore where there is caning all the time and they do not worry about age and I have been caned twice in the past year. In january I received 3 strokes when I reached 15 demerit points for a number of minor offences but this is the school rule. However much worse happened in May when I arrived at school on a Monday morning with 3 full days growth on my face. To have a lot of facial hair or long hair is a serious offence at my school and so i was sent to the discipline master expecting to get 3 strokes but when i arrived he told me that he a had a record of me being warned for the same offence 2 months before. On that occasion i had only 1 day's growth and i was not caned but given 6 demerit points. However the master ruled this was a second offence and that i was to have 6 strokes. I then had to bend over and take my punishment which hurt like hell. I have 1 more year to do at school and i expect to get at least one more caning when i will be 18 as it is easy to get demerit points which can be given by any teacher for next to nothing. I was given 3 for my shirt not being tucked in and another boy for having dirty shoes. I know a lot of people think that because of more discipline kids in Singapore behave better and this may be true but i think our school is far too strict and severe. Most schools here use the cane as a last resort but not mine. What do people from other countries think?

 
 

your message

September 14 2006, 4:40 AM 

Hello Du Chang-
I've just checked this site again and seen your surpise that getting caned at 18 should be 'unusual'. I assume from the position of your message on the board you are referring to my posts and the subsequent replies.
I was in fact last caned when I was 19 (just), when I had to bend over for 4 strokes. This was in the late 1960s in England.
I am sorry to hear you have been caned at your school in Singapore. You say you expect to be caned again; surely your own behaviour can prevent this.
Paul



 
 

Further

September 15 2006, 1:57 AM 

Du Chang-
I responded in haste in my reply to you. As I'm currently stuck waiting for the middle-of-the-night arrival of some new students, let me respond at greater length.
I was originally shown this message-board by my son, and responded to the 'oldest spanked' element of the title because I was in fact last caned when I had just turned 19 [this was in a British Grammar School in the late 1960s; these schools gave excellent education to those who passed the State's '11+' examination but were known for their strictness and mimicking of the 'Public School' system of 50 years earlier.]
I then had an ongoing blazing row with the poster using the name 'Lotta Nonsense' (read through the board). S/he seems to be taking the position that all posts on the board are fantasies - probably a sound position, but not entirely helpful to serious debate and galling to genuine would-be contributors like myself.
Now, 3 linked points, if I may:
1. You responded re the number of people who seemed to think being caned at 18+ was unusual/impossible, but your reason I feel was your frustration at what had happened to you. I must say in fairness that there is a historical element in play here. We in the post-war Grammar Schools were youngsters from ordinary homes who had proved 'bright' in an examination though our parents had no money. We were being educated to our potential, whereas in the 1930s we would have been factory and mine fodder by virtue of our working-class parentage and future doctors, scientists etc. would have been lost to the economy. We were not mainly from 'bookish' homes, so perhaps the strict discipline was necessary to ensure our brains dominated our social background. With S'pore's rapid development and the development of its selective, disciplined but highly successful education system (I am in fact myself a Singapore-Cambridge Chief Examiner in Geography) there may be a similar situation.
1. BUT - my particular problem with corporal punishment is that, although I took it regularly in school and used it in my early teaching years in a SCEA (army) school, I worry about possible psychological spin-offs. Again, scroll through my other messages on the board. I was myself unaffected and went on to a normal family life, but there are stories of others who became fixated and 'abnormal'. I mention this aspect to you because...
3. I'm not happy about some of the material on this site. Choosing my words carefully, because of course this will be posted - this board seems laregely (but not entirely) o.k., but some of the other topics on the site are not very wholesome in my opinion; do NOT go reading through them. There are several boards showing an 'unhealthy' (again, my opinion) interest in C.P.
Your post appears genuine to me and I accept that you are 17 rising 18 and distressed at being caned. My message is simply this - in my opinion, a sore behind won't do you much lasting damage. Getting involved with SOME of the posters on this site might. Don't get dragged into any protracted correspondence on it.

With apologies to genuine posters.
Paul

 
 

Oldest spanked

September 24 2006, 9:59 AM 

I am in correspondence with a girl in Singapore who got 6 whacks of the cane on her butt in school.

Her age? - 19!

She was made to stand facing the wall with her hands on the wall & school frock on.

She claims that it was quite a stinger & had effect of teaching her a lesson for various 'demerits' that she had accumulated.

Aparna

 
 
Hee Lai

Re: Oldest spanked

September 24 2006, 10:23 AM 

Girls are not caned in Singapore Schools.

 
 
winston

Re: Oldest spanked

September 25 2006, 12:30 AM 

Hee Lai,are you a S'porean?

 
 
Hee Lai

Re: Oldest spanked

September 25 2006, 7:34 AM 

No, I am a Walthamstownian.

 
 
Saro

Age

September 28 2006, 12:08 AM 

It's completely possible to be 19 and in form 6 In Malaysia. Children don't start Grade ("standard") 1 till they are fully 6 years, and then there's upper and lower 6th form. It's the upper 6ths that wear the blouse and skirts -- lowers forms wear pinafore dresses. So our Charlotte's in her 13th year of school.


 
 

Oldest spanked

October 1 2006, 5:47 PM 

Hi Hee Lai,

You have said that-

'Girls are not caned in Singapore Schools.'

Also, in reply to another question whether you're a Singaporean, you've said that -

'No, I am a Walthamstownian.'

I would like to you that-

1. What is Walthamstownian? Is Walthamstown a place - if so in what country?

2. You seem to be speaking with some admirable authority - what is the source of your information?

3. Are you male or female? I am sorry but it's difficult for an Indian to make this out from a Chinese-sounding name.

4. The name of the girl I mentioned is Yee Ling, who is also a contributor. Please see her letter to this forum on February 17, 2005!

Aparna

 
 
Hee Lai

Re: Oldest spanked

October 1 2006, 9:25 PM 

Dear Aparna,

Thank you for sending message and for providing most welcome entertainment.

1. Walthamstow is suburb of mystic east where live me and other highly distinguished contributor to Forum, Sill Lee Asso - he antidote to fantasists from Singapore and Thornton Heath. Here is very good map.
http://www.walthamstow.towntalk.co.uk/mainmap.php

2. Source of information - encyclopaedic and well-respected site run by normally frenetic updater who has not updated since 10 September because he on honeymoon with Eric.
http://www.corpun.com/

3.I ladyboy like you
http://www.ladyboysofbangkok.co.uk/

4. Yee Ling Broadway also ladyboy and can be seen in Brighton on street (weather permitting).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAyX4rqiaOE

Keep posting!

Hee Lai




 
 
mimi

Wal'tam'stow enit

October 1 2006, 9:52 PM 

As someone who lived near Walthamstow I can assure our happy band of perverts that someone fro Walthamstow would refer to themselves as a Walthamstonian, never a Walthamstownian. For the simple reason that Walthamstow is a London Borough not a town.
It is also known as Walthamistan.

 
 
alaric

singapore

October 6 2006, 10:47 PM 

Yes, it is definitely true that girls are not caned in Singapore. I think I've said that already. In theory the same rule applies in Malaysia but there it is not enforced, as we can see from the 19-year-old girl's blog that I linked to further up this page. In Singapore it is.

The male contributor claiming to be from Singapore whose recent message appears out of chronological sequence a long way up this page, who says he is 17 and still gets caned at school, is plausible. Boys can get caned at 18 there, if they are still in secondary school. Most 18-year-olds have moved on to junior college (equivalent of UK "sixth form college"), where, as far as I know, they won't get caned, but there are various reasons why in a few cases they could still be at secondary school at that age and, if so, their age would not be a bar to caning. It's rare but not unknown. (Most Singapore school canings, of which there are a lot, are of boys aged 14 to 16 inclusive. I realise this is all very boring to most people here, but facts are facts.)

 
 
mimi

Re: singapore

October 7 2006, 12:32 PM 

Well, curiousity and a kinky mind got the better of me.
So having saved and zoomed in on the picture it is obvious that the girls do have feint cane marks.
However they are so feint that they were drawn on with lipstick or if genuine they were applied with a thin cane in a very soft manner. Hardly a caning worthy of the word.

 
 

CP in Germany

October 9 2006, 9:37 PM 

Shawn: I was brought up near Hamburg in Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s and still lived there after the Nazis had come to power. It was very common for German schoolboys to be punished in front of the class (all boys since the school was segrated)with a strap that the teacher kept for this purpose. The teacher usually sat in a chair facing the class and, taking the boy over his knee, strapped his bottom until the boy began to cry. Boys at least 14 and sometimes even 15 were sometimes punished in this way, often for not being properly prepared for Latin lessons or for not being properly respectful to Herr Lehrer (the teacher). My father, who was a strict disciplinarian, also used a similar strap on me from time to time if he thought I was not properly obedient and respectful. He used the leather strap on which he sharpened his razor. This punishment was very common in German families at least with boys. Girls were usually treated more leniently. In those days boys up to at least to the age of 14 wore short pants about three or four inches above the knee and in the winter time (roughly October to April in nothern Germany)long brown thigh-length cotton stockings that were held up by four garters attached to a sleeveless bodice (or "Leibchen") worn on top of one-piece underwear (shirt and underpants combined in a single garment called "Hemdehosen"). The elastic garters had metal clips or fasteners for attaching to the tops of our stockings and were worn like the garters on a woman's corset--two in front and two in back. Some boys had buttons on the tops of their stockings to which the garters were fastened. The garters of course were concealed under our short trousers and weren't supposed to show. But sometimes the garter fasteners were exposed when you were turned over a father's or teacher's knee, and if the adult wielding the strap wanted to hurt you really badly, he would sometimes bring the strap down just over the garter fastener which then was woundingly jamed into the flesh of the boy's upper leg just below the buttocks by the harshness of the blow. This hurt really badly. Teachers and parents may not have hit the garter fasteners deliberately--it could have just been accidental--but we boys thought they sometimes did it on purpose in order to be more severe. After the age of 14 or 15 most German boys had graduated into long trousers and no longer had to wear the Leibchen with the long stockings and garters, but some older boysup up to about 18 were still punished with the strap--usually, not over the teacher's knee, but simply bending over a bench. A bit of spanking lore from "ancient history." Kurt

One of the big problems when being punished with a strap was having th

 
 
jo bloggs

Re: Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

November 9 2006, 3:20 PM 

that why you are such an awful caner

 
 
Josephine

Caning in Malaysia

June 2 2007, 12:42 AM 

About the post above, I believe that it is true, the caning incident.

19 years old is Upper 6 form, and these are the students that will be sitting for their STPM exams.

Caning in schools is rather common, so I will not be surprised.

It is quite common for discipline teachers to cane whole classes, like for example, fooling around when the national anthem is playing, if the class and the surrounding corridors are found to be dirty, if the students forgot to switch off the lights and the fans before leaving their claases to attend their science labs, or if the class is just plain too noisy. So during these situations, the girls are not spared, they are caned as well.

Normally it will just be one or two strokes when the whole class is caned. I don't think the teacher could cane more, as imagine a class will normally have 40 or 50 students!

I have been caned once before together with my classmates when the class was found to be dirty. It is quite painful at the moment, but the pain doens't last very long.

There are other situations of course when girls are caned as well, like not wearing the full uniform properly (like not wearing the necktie etc.), forgetting the name tag etc.

Personally I have only heard of my friends being caned on their palms. Only the guys get caned at their back or buttocks, but only for really serious discipline problems! If not usually it's just on the hand as well.

 
 

Thigh Strapping in Short Pants

April 25 2009, 8:26 PM 

At my school, the uniform for all boys required short pants until age 16. This was thought to be good discipline training for young adolescents, "to maintain them self-consciously aware of their attitude, behavior and status," and for this reason the shorts were made inordinately brief. This also quite facilitated the summary method of CP employed there, a strapping of your thighs before the class...
Nasty? Yes. Did it "work"? Yes...

 
 
KK

Thigh Strapping in Short Pants

April 25 2009, 9:17 PM 

At my school, the uniform for all boys required short pants until age 16. This was thought to be good discipline training for young adolescents, "to maintain them self-consciously aware of their attitude, behavior and status," and for this reason the shorts were made inordinately brief. This also quite facilitated the summary method of CP employed there, a strapping of your thighs before the class...
Nasty? Yes. Did it "work"? Yes...


This seems nonsense to me. George, who are you quoting?

Shorts are practical comfortable wear for the physically active of all ages. I wear them when hiking, cycling, running etc, even in snow (to keep my longs dry). Legs are much easier to wash and dry than long trousers and they don't go baggy at the knees or become soiled at the cuff.

Physical activity leads to fitness, physical competence, feelings of well being and self worth and confidence rather than the reverse. Those who wear practical lenght shorts as opposed to fashionable are the most self assured and independent of the boys in my neighbourhood.

Fashions change as do the length of shorts. This is more driven by the marketers of clothing than by unguided consummer demand. The goods on offer do not cover all the options so consumers have little effect on driving fashion.

I smell a fetish!

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Thigh Strapping in Short Pants

April 25 2009, 10:46 PM 

Hi KK, I think you are quite right to be just a little suspicious of George. He has recently posted a very similar though rather more specific account in the 'The target of our CP intentions' thread. I can personally attest to the efficacy of school CP applied to the thighs, though in my case only slaps were involved and I was a little lad of 7! I find it difficult to conceive of this type of discipline being applied to 16 year old boys, and indeed of the (presumably specially manufactured) shorts being 'made inordinately brief' as George puts it. However, who knows, in some school, somewhere, at some time .........? happy.gif

Irrespective of the merits of his account George is being extremely disrespectful to an Honorary Life Member of this estimable Forum, as he is NOT Retired Headmaster George, who of course also posts under the name 'George'. The imposter George's email address appears to indicate that he sees himself as akin to certain ancient Indian philosophers who pursued asceticism to the point of regarding clothing as detrimental to purity of thought and therefore rejected use of it. Perhaps they also had their shorts made inordinately brief. Specialised tailoring is usually readily available on the Sub-Continent! happy.gif

 
 
Declan

Re:oldest spanked or given school detention

April 26 2009, 9:06 AM 

At my school some 17 year old boys were caned. These were boys known as " repeat fifths", they had to repeat their O levels, and were subject to the same discipline as other fifth formers . There was no CP in the sixth form.

I do remember two 17/18 year old sixth form girls emerging from the headmistresses office looking quite shell shocked. They had obviously been given a severe telling off , though I don't know the crime or whether any specific punishment was handed out.

A_L brings up the subect of leg slaps and the following anecdote may be of interest.

Girls in my day at school wore micro skirts. One girl ( aged about 15 and very attractive) was leaning over a desk and her skirt was riding up causing a certain amount of interest amongst us lads. Another girl came up behind her and gave the back of her thigh a resounding smack, and told her she was exposing herself. It must have quite painful as she was hopping about rubbing the back of her thigh for a while.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

June 11 2009, 12:59 AM 

Kattfish: A Senior in the second semester would probably fall into the category of the oldest with graduation in May. 18 years old is not considered too old to be paddled in the States. I havent heard of anyone who stayed back or retained as they say over there being paddled at 19 but I'm sure they have been given detention. As a Corpun update and to put a face on things it was in March 2007 that an 18 year old was paddled and unsuccessfully sued. I don't know if anyone has done this before but I invite you to search using this method. Simply Google Corpun 19788 about the incident and then Corpun 20162 about the disposition and voila! I think it is better than the link because it is easier to sort through the page. The defendant is pictured in the first link and the second link is a news story from last month where he was named Principal after a successful season coaching girls basketball and softball. The girl paddled has not disappeared from the face of the world either at least her face hasn't on My Space. School policies are egalitarian and rules apply to every student regardless of age or gender and is very much a part of the American Way, otherwise it would be strongly objected to by the parents and even more so the students. That's why often the same person, usually the Principal, who would be the first person a parent would turn to if they thought their child was treated unfairly uses the same paddle. What may seem surprising doesnt seem surprising here but isnt that true of other parts of the world? Obviously this teacher was not branded for following school policies or he wouldnt be coaching girls or being named Principal would he?

http://ewhs.ms.campusgrid.net/home/Faculty+&+Staff/Teachers/Mr.+Bill+Brand

http://www.cdispatch.com/sports/article.asp?aid=1477

www.myspace.com/ms_aye

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

June 11 2009, 2:29 AM 

Perhaps the second oldest girl was one just weeks past her 18th birthday and was a subject of my 2/27 CP Supreme Court thread. 18 years old is neither the proverbial duckbill platypus neither fish nor fowl and no one knows whether to treat them as children or adults. Where do you draw the line? A case in point was a 33 year old teacher having consensual sex with an 18 year old senior girl. The PDF juxtaposed make for head scratching reading. However strange I'm sure members of this esteem Forum who follow law will find these rules logical however surprising about sex and CP at least in the USA.

http://www.courts.wa.gov/content/Briefs/A02/368048%20petiitoners%20reply.pdf

www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/unpub/06/06-50530.0.wpd.pdf

 
 


Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

June 11 2009, 7:50 AM 

Perhaps the second oldest girl was one just weeks past her 18th birthday and was a subject of my 2/27 CP Supreme Court thread. 18 years old is neither the proverbial duckbill platypus neither fish nor fowl and no one knows whether to treat them as children or adults. Where do you draw the line? A case in point was a 33 year old teacher having consensual sex with an 18 year old senior girl.

I think Victorian law has found a fairly sensible solution to this issue when it comes to matters of school discipline and acceptable behaviour.

If a student has been continually enrolled at a secondary school for two years prior to their eighteenth birthday (ie, since before the age of sixteen) a school is permitted to, for most disciplinary purposes, treat them as a child until the age of nineteen and a half.

It's not an absolute rule - they can, for example, write their own excuse notes for absences and they have the right to leave school at any time (school leaving age is, in fact, sixteen and only recently increased from fifteen) but the assumption is that they have chosen to submit to the discipline of the school unless they choose to exercise their right to leave.

A teacher who had consensual sex with their own 18 year old student would not be guilty of any crime, but could be held to have committed a serious breach of professional ethics and lose the right to teach. It is a crime for a teacher to have sexual relations with a 16 or 17 year old who is one of their students, even though the normal age of consent is sixteen.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

June 11 2009, 3:51 PM 

The American Way was the Scottish Way. Our Charter Schools still use corporal punishment in areas where they are banned elsewhere just like the private schools starpped their students on the hand only I presume ten years ago while 20 years ago it was banned in the other schools in Scotland from what I understand. Age was also an issue with the ROSLA, (Raising of the School Leaving Age) and the dreaded Lochleggy tawse was said to be upgraded a notch as I understand. The Huntly tawse which Im sure youre more familiar with than me may have been the Loch Nesss monster of a tawse.

http://www.gcal.ac.uk/heatherbank/pdfs/fs12belt.pdf

Back to Jessica Serafin here are the details on page 2 footnote 1.

bepress.com/context/deana_pollard/article/1004/type/native/viewcontent/

Charter schools like Memphis are publicly funded but a child can withdraw and go to a regular school. The Charter School called the School of Excellence she attended is an alternative school in San Antonio TX and San Antonio County is among the 96 of the 100 largest school districts in the USA that prohibit 10,177,922 students from being paddled.

Parents choose schools like the charter school in Memphis TN and San Antonio because they want their children away from the chaotic jungle and more so in the public secondary school where the youngsters are sent to the police station and not the principal's office for a lot more serious offenses. Unlike Dr Dominum school they're free but like his school they are sought out for discipline and structure. The day she stepped into that school she knew what she was in for. She could have chosen not to leave her public school building for breakfast with her friends who took their punishment like Nancy of Booneville AK and who I'm sure graduated like Nancy. Jessica made another bad choice of not finishing her education, a decision Im sure she is still blaming on the school at 22 years of age and she will spend a lifetime regretting and playing the martyr role to anyone she can convince but like courts and the US Supreme Court and me can shed no tears for her.

BTW. When did I become an Honorary Member of this esteem Forum? I just noticed it. The American Way and Paula Flowe E Pluribus Unum.

 
 
Thomas

Oldest Spanked or Given School Detention

June 17 2009, 2:31 AM 

I last received the cane when I was 16 years old and I was caned twice. It was 1983 and I was sent to the headmaster with a group of boys for misbehaving during swimming for PE. There were five of us and we received three strokes of the cane on each hand from the Headmaster and given a week of after school detention. My father gave me the strap as well, I revisited the headmaster again two weeks later for speaking back to a teacher and I received another 6 strokes-3 on each hand.

 
 
Steve

6th formers slippered in detention

June 18 2009, 2:01 PM 

When I was about twelve and had just started the third year of grammar school (boys only), I was in detention one afternoon after school.

Detention was only held once a week, on Mondays so that parents could be notified in advance, and there were normally about a dozen or two boys of various ages. This was the first time, however, that I'd seen a sixthformer - identifiable by the different uniform - there.

Teachers taking detention often tended to make use of the slipper and on this ocassion I'm sure the teacher in charge was out to make an example of the 6th form boy who had let down his form by getting a detention. He called him out to the front, I'm not sure on what excuse but he certainly hadn't done anything bad, and made him bend over a desk at the front for 6 really hard whacks that echoed round the room. Then he told him to sit down and behavew himself and that if 6th formers got detention they could expect to be treated like any naughty boy.

I saw other sixth form boiys in detention after that - though I was never in detention myself after the fourth year - but never saw another 6th former slippered like that.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 23 2009, 10:38 PM 

Possibly 20 year old named Jennifer could qualify even if by mistake. This Student Teacher Arkansas, wrote on the link below an account that seems so unbelievable it becomes believable but I'm not sure if it's a fantasy. The truth isd often stranger than fantasy. Generally after a few postings someone calls a poster for it but this one either slipped through or seemed real. It is amusing in any event to me and seemingly for her. Three swats would be no big deal and equal to what the English say a good telling off and she didn't seem too put out by it which lends to its credence. I think the readers on the chatboard (mostly female teachers) seemed non plussed.

Student Teacher Arkansas




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 23 2009, 11:44 PM 

Methinks I've seen variants of that story (young female teacher given corporal punishment by senior teacher by mistake) before - and it wasn't on anything as half respectable as Teachers Net! Same applies to the 'pretty girl paddled in skirt by Male Principal with male witness' story, Anna wasn't it?, also on Teachers Net. If Teachers Net doesn't watch it it will become the sort of site we don't link to on this estimable Forum! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 24 2009, 12:17 AM 

Wirh reference to Anna this posting applied. Methinks someone with a strong anti-paddling view is using this scenario to make some points.

Who cares if she is attractive? Who cares if the principal is 42? Who cares if the witness turned red because he felt uncomfortable or aroused? And at 17 how did she become so knowledgeable after seeming so naive in her initial posting. She seemed to jump on the putting it bluntly. More importantly why is she asking for other accounts where this are plenty pf accounts available among her classmates of four years. I'm steering clear of the site for awhile. There are enough true stories about 18 year olds like Bill Brand/Audrey Pee stories that pass the Corpun muster test.

In retrospect it was a no brainer to post Anna's tale. I trusted the site more than it deserved because of its normalcy but I guess that only applies on off CP topics. I promise to be more circumspect in the future. The student teacher tales usually have details but this one is notable by its absence and the subject doesn't become CP thread like others. Sorry on the first account but not so sure on the second account (it happened awhile ago when paddling was as much as five times more common) but I agree the site is becoming one unworthy of referencing for our estimable Forum.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 24 2009, 1:42 AM 

Hi American Way. You really mustn't take me too seriously, and I must try to remember that only a fairly small group of people always know when I'm joking, and as far as I know none of them contribute to this estimable Forum! There is absolutely no reason that I can see why you shouldn't have posted Anna's account, or Jennifer's for that matter. Neither of them contains anything specifically offensive, it's just that they are staples of the 'adult' spanking story field and I'm surprised that Teachers Net isn't a little more rigorous in querying them. Or maybe I'm wrong to assume that, unlike this Forum, its purpose is not to carry stories of school corporal punishment!

 
 

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 27 2009, 2:48 PM 

I know that former British PM Tony Blair was caned aged 17 at Fettes College, Scotland.
He`d have been a sixth former at the time I suppose.

Paul
SF&R: sfrsite.topcities.com

 
 
American Way

BUCK UP BABY JESSICA

October 3 2009, 4:17 PM 

Jessica Serafin at 18 may not be the oldest girl paddled of recent vintage (2005)but unlike the teacher chat boards that are filled with pesters this is perhaps is the one best chronicled. The Charter School paddling policy for younger students was something she supported if done correctly. But when it came time for her appointment with "Ole Thunder" she wanted to call her mother as she was led upstairs to get her just desserts. She didn't exactly make it easy for it did be done rightly. How about taking responsibily for your blood droplets and snashed hand for what you did at an age you should be an example to the others and for the way you resisted. What a a drama queen. The courage NOT to submit.

She was scared. Poor, poor baby Jessica unlike the other high school girls (rwo years younger) bucked and took three licks from the allegedly four foot paddle (wouldn't pass Renee's inspection). The mother signed a permission slip but as noted in my June entry she made a federal case out of it. I'm sure her Mommy didn't have to pay a dime for her frivolous suit. The anti-CP zealots depended on the only true victim called taxpayers.

"He took me out of the classroom, and then he talked to me and told me I was going to get it I was going to go upstairs for corporal punishment," she said. "And I was, like, can I call my mom, first?"

According to Serafin, she was forced to bend over a chair and Wilkinson and two other employees restrained her. She said she asked to leave, but was not allowed. Serafin alleges she was hit three to four times with the wooden paddle.

At one point, she said, she tried to block one of the blows and the paddle "smashed her hand."

"I started screaming because I thought he had broke my hand," Serafin said, adding the administrator told her the strike to the hand didn't count because he failed to hit her in the right spot.

"I was real scared," she said.

After school, Serafin said she could hardly walk. She said she noticed tiny droplets of blood on her backside and that her hand was severely swollen.

Serafin said she went to an emergency room for treatment. Her hand was put in a cast and photographs were taken of her injuries.

No longer a student at the School of Excellence, she said she believes paddling works if used correctly with young students.


 
 
Jenny

My last caning

October 3 2009, 6:44 PM 

I was last caned at school when I was sixteen: for smoking. I tended to behave myself better in sixth form and we were allowed to smoke in designated areas at that age. I don't remember any sixth formers getting the cane but, if it were a choice of that or suspension/expulsion I'd have opted for the cane.


 
 
prof.n

RE: Oldest spanked

October 3 2009, 8:15 PM 

Hi American Way,


Just a few comments.

First , once again you see the danger of the 'hands on chair', particularly if the pops are hard. I may be wrong but whereas a wrist in a cast for a sprain I can see, a swollen hand, sounds unusual, but as they say , it's written so it must be so.

However, on a much more serious level to my mind the line of abuse was crossed. Firstly a couple of administrators holding a young down in my book constitutes abuse , pure and simple. The girl was presumably asked to submit to punishment, she indicated her unwillingness to comply, and to go further at that stage, ( restraint) , should in my opinion be called out. She clearly did not wish to co operate , and did not consent for safety reasons to being restrained. ( I understand that very, very occasionally in the States, a child who is very frightened may be offered ' gentle assistance' to stay in a safe position. I haven't really decided my view on this one, although I am in principle implacably opposed to imposed restraint. of any kind)

If the paddle was four foot, it is far too long , and probably heavy, for a girl of that age.

Certainly once the missed hit took place on the hand the paddling should have been stopped, and medical attention sought. To continue , let alone repeat the shot is completely unacceptable

None of the schools I visited recently or Principals/VP's I spoke to would have condoned that. This is where you need the TWP code of practice, otherwise we might as well beat our kids up with baseball bats!

 
 
American Way

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE

October 4 2009, 12:10 AM 

its written so it must be so.

prof n:. More has been written about this case as it worked its way up to the secpnd highest court in the land and landed on the cases to be heard by the US Supreme Court desk and dismissed. No other case involving CP has gone that far up the laddder. TWP site tries to counter hyperbole.

The higher this frivolous case worked its way up the chain to the US District Court and was rejected at the Supreme Court they story morphed into a routine paddling that went slightly awry by the culprits own choosing. IMHO they were acting in loco parentis fully sanctioned by her litigiously enabling mother. A whole new four year (2009) of students parents are still being asked whether they want their child to ope out. Unfortunately, I have not been able to track that school down on the ORCA data. The data would record 2005 the years after she got what all the other students got.

The crux of the case was whether at 18 she should be afforded the rights of an adult but the courts came down on the school side because it wasn't their fault that the consent form was signed. Ole Thunder's length was like a fish story and ot got fishier and fishier as it work its way up the courts. Walking wounded, blood droplets on the buttockes and smashed hand.

They held her down for her safety and if at any time she said stop they would have let her walk right out of the door. She knew she was 18 and she knew what her rights were and in fact she didn't return the next day and did drop out. The courts (right up to the Supreme Court) probably got sick of her lies and through her right through the door.

The story has a happy ending. She came back to the same school less than a year later and graduated. That paddle was meant for the other students backsides not hers. I can't find that school in the ORCA data to get the numbers but they still require consent forms so "Ole Thunder" so can still be heard not soon after lightning. Never a better backside to feel that lightning than hers. 23 year old Jessica Serafin is alive and well on cyberspace (MySpace). Beyond the federal courts she didn't reap any remedial remuneration from a civil suit (well bank rolled by Anti-Cp Zealots that only requires a preponderance of evidence I can only say. .

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE

 
 
prof.n

Re Serafin

October 4 2009, 1:33 AM 



Hi American Way,

Interesting post. I went and looked up the court judgement, and the issues are not quite as simple as they seem.

Firstly the federal rights case was not backed on this occasion by the zealots, strangely it went to the Supreme court on the federal rights elements on a pauper's docket, not with a large law firm , as you need to get anywhere in the Federal system! I'm not surprised she lost on grounds here, the more interesting element , whether she could be held down and was forcibly should , I think have been heard in state court not federal rights.

The issue of whether she demanded to leave the premises, as she claimed was , in effect never heard- it wasn't federal or constitutional rights at all, is a question of the tipping point to , essentially assault and unlawful restraint imprisonment. and that is the interesting question.

Teachers are generally in that state protected from criminal charges arising out of corporal punishment, but not where the school proceeds in a reckless manner.

For the Principal to allow a kid of any age to reach back, strike the hand and continue to paddle is exactly that situation , and those are facts that do not appear to have contested, ( but were not relevant to the Federal suit). Any such action should have led to the ending of punishment and treatment by the school nurse, or taking her to the ER......personal safety , even for a 'brat' outweighs all other concerns in a well run school. .

As I read state law if the girl had actually attempted to walk out and been restrained , or her exit barred, that is when the law would clearly have been broken. , just as if a child walked out of school ( any age) and was forcibly returned to the premises for punishment . There appears to have been little consideration of whether she refused punishment, but I think that her actions certainly implied stop , and she claims to have said so

The issue of 18 years old is interesting. Of course in Britain the situation was different , but our school was , in the 70's, advised not to cane anyone over 18 as under our law in loco parentis ceases to have validity on the 18th birthday. You would therefore , without written consent of the student be committing actual bodily harm under our law. That is why there was no compulsory caning in our sixth form, you could be caned if you agreed in writing, otherwise you were suspended. Apparently in Victoria I believe Dr. Dominum has indicated it is 19 and a half in education.

Bottom line , if you don't want a bad name , don't try to restrain students without their explicit consent., if a student refuses corporal punishment respect that decision, and always abort punishment if there is a mistake , injury or accident. Whether the girl overreacted ( was a big baby) is not for the staff to judge. , nor for us. What we want to see is a professional approach, and regardless of the court finding on Federal rights, ( with which I probably concur ) I don't think it is possible to argue this situation was in any sense satisfactory .Remember the words from my friends internal memo of the 1970's in Texas....if the student says or indicates stop. Then stop ...work out what to do later. ......I continue to say if the south wants to retain this option long term it has to act ultra responsibly, and behave impeccably. Hence the need for clear codes of conduct.

I will publish the whole of that memo shortly ,as I think it is very instructive in this regard..

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 4 2009, 5:51 AM 

It's not her brattiness that I'm upset but her lies. The other three taco breakfast club girls took their three (probably like Nancy) swats for being bratty. They all were punished equally. They were promoted and Jessica lost a year. The school said it didn't go down that way (Jessica's tale) but chose not to argue it in the media (smart lawyer). The zealots got more attention from a botched paddling out of how many?

The citizens of San Antonio banned CP before 2005 and ran the paddling judge out of town but they give this rare school the green light to paddle and still do. Maybe they aren't San Antonio's easisets students to teach? I have too much respect for their citizenry and their school officials to play Monday morning quarterback.

prof n as I've said before we're on the same page about the South getting it's act together about the way a paddling is administered. The codes are another matter. When New Mexico paddled there was required training and there is certainly a need for uniformity procedurely. Safety needs to be a primary concern. There was a fine line between protecting her from missed hits than abducting her and they did botched it. You can learn from a botched paddling and I would hope the School of Excellence did but I'm glad they didn't have to shell out money for the Serafins but don't think for one moment the anti-CP lobby gave them some perks for their fodder.

There I go again saying things I can't prove but I wouldn't be me if I didn't have my doubts when it comes to that lot.


 
 
Alan Turing

Better later than never

October 4 2009, 8:23 AM 

We appear to have passed the hundredth post in this thread without Another-Lurker's usual decorated celebration. Perhaps it will come soon. But in the meantime, I thought it might be nice to add a little colour1 to the proceedings.

1. That's "color" for our American friends.

 
 
Nero

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 4 2009, 12:01 PM 

Hi Jenny,

Thanks very much for your contribution. Since we're particularly interested at the moment in the question of whether the caning of girls was confined to certain notorious schools or was more widespread, it would be helpful to know: (i) roughly what year your caning was; (ii) how common caning was for girls at your school; and (iii) whether it was on the hand or the bottom. I hope this doesn't feel too intrusive--we're just trying to build up a more accurate historical picture of what actually happened while all this is still within living memory.

 
 
Jenny

Re: My last caning

October 4 2009, 2:36 PM 

Hi Nero,

First, I should like to make it clear that I don't consider a school "notorious" for treating boys and girls equally. If the standard punishment for offence 'X' was 'Y', the sex of the offender should not be a consideration. If fact, I would go so far as to say that, by exempting girls from the cane, the school was admitting it did not honestly consider the cane necessary to maintain discipline. In that case, caning boys can be nothing other than gratuitous brutality.

To answer your questions, the cane was not use (as far as I am aware) at my junior school. There we got the ruler on our hands in class or the slipper on our bums from the headmaster for more serious offences. I got the ruler many times, as did most of my classmates. The slipper was quite rare, I was one of the "chosen few" wink.gif and, if memory serves, the only one in my class to get it. This would have been about 1964/5.

I was born in 1956 so I started secondary school about 1967/8. There, everything moved up a grade - slipper in class; cane from the headmistress.

Classroom slipperings were quite common for both boys and girls. This was about the time of women's lib. and there was a strong push towards sex equality. Getting the slipper in class was an everyday event (in the sense that it wasn't out of the ordinary) but it wasn't really that frequent. In general it was just a matter out out to the front, bend over, whack, whack, and back to your desk. Boys got it through their trousers and girls through their skirts. It was quick, simple and not particularly painful - just enough to let you know it was a punishment. Given a choice of that or lines/detention, I'd choose the slipper every time. Occasionally we got what I would call a "proper slippering" but the vast majority were relatively mild affairs for both sexes.

My first caning was when I was 12 for playing truant with three others - two boys and another girl. We all got three strokes of the cane - the boys on their bums and we girls on our (non-writing) hands. That caning hurt a lot, partly because I got it on my hand and partly because the headmistress didn't mess around. She retired sometime later. Her replacement was a bit more moderate and decreed that girls should be caned on their bums too. The cane was only used by the headmistress, assistant headmaster, and the deputy headmistress. All three caned both boys and girls but it was always through our skirts or (in the case of boys) trousers.

Boys and girls were treated equally so girls tended to get the slipper or cane just as much as the boys. In the early years girls actually seemed to get it more because we tended to be more badly behaved. I know some of my peers at first thought girls wouldn't be caned but the headmistress quickly dispelled that idea!

Caning was fairly common but I shouldn't like to put a figure on canings per unit time. Neither would I say it was used excessively. I deserved every caning and slippering I received and a lot more I didn't get. The cane was a more serious punishment than the slipper but not necessarily a more painful one. Six full-blooded whacks with a slipper through gym-knickers from the games mistress could be a lot worse than a couple of strokes of the cane, through a skirt, from the headmistress.

My last caning, six strokes across my bum, was when I was 16 so that would have been about 1972.

For all that, I bear no resentment at all towards my former teachers. I did, and still do, have a lot of genuine respect for them. I don't really know whether I would support the re-introduction of corporal punishment in schools. It has the benefit of being quick and simple but, although I never experienced it, it has the potential to be abused.
If it were re-introduced, I would want it to apply to both sexes. It's ridiculous to claim it's needed to maintain discipline if half the pupils are automatically exempt. That can only show an intention to have half the school undisciplined.



 
 
prof.n

RE :Oldest spanked or given school detention.

October 4 2009, 4:04 PM 

Jenny,

A very interesting posting.

As you may have read elsewhere I was at a boys independent school in the 70's with a 'sister' girls school nearby.

When I first went to the school, the cane was used much more frequently in the boys school than in the girls school. Indeed in the girl's school the cane was a real 'ultimate deterrent' .In those days the few girls that were caned were given it on the hands, which I think is a rather dangerous practice.

Later on in my career, as you'll see I've written in detail elsewhere, a new deputy head ( one of two) was appointed in the girls school , who , due to sudden illness also 'subbed' at ours. Because she taught in both schools, and her background was teaching in the States, she punished much more evenly, and whilst there were many more boys always caned than girls, the punishments for the same offence became more even. For example, she caned for skipping detention, smoking, cutting classes etc. equally in each school. She also stopped hand caning. Everyone was given it on their backside, because, she had been used to paddling both sexes in the States

Just one anomaly I never understood. In the boys school the tradition had been that the deputy head caned in the 'old gym' ( abandoned for PE purposes) ; the girls had always been caned in their deputy head's office. In the boys school , unless there was large number ever to be caned, ( normally Tuesday's dealing with those missing Saturday detention!). Miss F caned in her office, but in the girls school she took to caning after school in the gym . I understand this was to allow the girls either to adopt the American 'brace' position against the wall , ( which she was used to ) or alternately bend over a vaulting horse grasping the far side legs, presumably again to keep their hands from flying back during punishment.

It was noticed that when the more 'hard line' caning regime was introduced at the girl's school , offences dropped significantly. So I suppose that the proof of the pudding lay in the eating. Certainly she was good at the job, and, boy or girl you didn't want a repeat visit!

Caning was done ,as I've said before, in both schools up to the Sixth form. In the sixth it was suspension , unless you specifically agreed to take the cane instead, it couldn't be 'enforced'.

 
 
Jenny

Re: Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 4 2009, 4:49 PM 

Hi Prof. N.


Like you, I think caning hands is potentially dangerous. That might be why my second headmistress didn't do it.

Younger girls often got the cane simply because they had the misguided idea they were exempt. As they learned better, things evened out a lot. Punishing both sexes equally is the only fair system and appeals to a child's innate sense of fair play. It also stops any arguments over who got the worse punishment. Is 500 lines better or worse than a couple of strokes of the cane?

I didn't know of anyone in sixth form getting the cane or slipper, or any other punishment come to think of it. I think we tended to behave ourselves then because we wanted to be there and wanted to learn. The only contentious point might have been smoking but that was allowed for sixth formers anyway.
Really, if we didn't want to be there we could just leave and, if we didn't obey the, fairly relaxed, rules we could be told to leave. That said, if the cane had been an option for sixth formers instead of being expelled (it might have been but the matter never arose to my knowledge), I would probably have chosen the cane.

It is sometimes suggested that all girls should be exempt from the cane because "girls are better behaved than boys." For a start, it most definitely is not true but, if that were true, we wouldn't get the cane anyway so why exempt us? Do we overlook the occassional murder because most people don't commit murder?. In my experience girls and women are just as badly behaved but we do tend to get punished less thus giving the impression we are better behaved.

Another argument put forward is that "girls don't do he type of things that boys are caned for." So, no girl has ever smoked; played truant; stole; damaged property or bullied younger pupils nor ever would for the rest of eternity. Even if that could, by some miracle, be shown to be true, which it clearly cannot, Again, if that were true, any exemption would be pointless.


 
 
Nero

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 4 2009, 7:07 PM 

Thanks, Jenny, for your detailed and informative response. I'm also of your generation (born 1957), and your experience generally tallies with my own sense of what was considered normal in UK schools during the 1960s and early 1970s.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 4 2009, 10:38 PM 


col_anim.gif
col_anim.giftrans.gif
My esteemed fellow contributor Alan Turing said above:

We appear to have passed the hundredth post in this thread without Another-Lurker's usual decorated celebration. Perhaps it will come soon.

Never let it be said that Another_Lurker neglects his duties in this estimable Forum! I'm afraid I spent far too long last night unsuccessfully looking for a picture of Old Father Time being spanked or caned to provide a 100th posting celebration in accordance with the thread title. I was then taken unawares by the sudden spate of posts in the thread and was asstounded to see that on my return tonight the thread total had reached 107!

I hope that everyone will forgive the late arrival of the customary salute, and will accept this as a suitable tribute to a most excellent thread.
trans.gifcol_anim.gif
col_anim.gif


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 4 2009, 11:33 PM 

Hi Jenny. You say above:

I was last caned at school when I was sixteen: for smoking. I tended to behave myself better in sixth form and we were allowed to smoke in designated areas at that age.

IMHO you must have been at a very liberal minded and indulgent school! Would you think that was the case? You say you were born in 1956, so I guess your 6th form years would have been around 1972/1974. At my secondary school in the 1950s there was awareness of the adverse effects of smoking, and smoking on school premises or in school uniform was a crime, even for sixth formers. I am most surprised that two decades later, when the health implications of smoking were much better understood, a school would allow 'designated areas' for pupils to smoke in. Did it think you suddenly became imune from the effects of smoking on entering the sixth form?

I would have also thought that the school would have had something of a problem in justifying giving you six strokes of the cane for smoking at 16, when presumably you were well into your fifth form year, when a few weeks or months later, as a sixth former, it would allow you to smoke on the premises. How did the school resolve this rather glaring dichotomy when enforcing a no smoking rule for pupils below the sixth form?

 
 

Re: Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 1:03 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker,

It may not seem like it from my previous posts but the headmistress was actually a very reasonable person. I don't think my school was particularly liberal or indulgent but it certainly wasn't oppressive. In the sixth form we were seen more as young adults who could, if we wished, leave and a get a job where we would be allowed to smoke. Although by the 1970's more was known about the effects of smoking, I think there was also a bit more freedom than in the 1950's. I'm not sure when this actually happened but there was a University Challenge program shown on TV where one of the contestants took a drag on his cigarette as he answered a question. I only saw it recently on a program about changing attitudes to smoking.

When I was caned at 16 for smoking, I was still a "schoolgirl" and I wasn't smoking in one of the designated areas (which would have been out of bounds for me anyway). A few months later when I entered the sixth form, I was no longer a "schoolgirl" but a voluntary student. We didn't have a uniform in sixth form (we were just asked to dress reasonably) so we couldn't actually smoke whilst in uniform. On our way to and from school we were the same as anyone else aged 16 and over. In school we couldn't light up just anywhere. Smoking was permitted in the sixth form common room and, shall we say, "tolerated" in the playground. Sixth formers tended not to "go out to play" but one or two of us might go out to keep the supervising teacher company and have a smoke. If he or she smoked it wasn't unknown to be offered a cigarette or for us to offer the teacher one. I think something might have been said if large groups of sixth formers had congregated in the playground for a smoke but one or two with the teacher was OK. The apparent dichotomy is solved by the fact that we were not schoolchildren. As a fifth former, when I was caught smoking I knew I was breaking the rules and what punishment to expect. It was risk I took and, on that occasion, lost. (I won quite a few others though. happy.gif ) Incidentally, a friend who went to a school were girls were exempt from corporal punishment and, in effect, exempt from all punishment (if they didn't do their lines or detentions nothing was ever done about it) told me that it wasn't unknown for a girl to light up in class! I found that very hard to believe but I have no reason to disbelieve her.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 4:02 AM 

Hi Jenny. Thank you for a very prompt and informative reply. I have to say though that you have worried me somewhat!

I find it most disturbing that in the 1970s, at what I take it was not a small avant-garde private school, it was acceptable for pupils, even sixth formers, to smoke at all, let alone in the school yard, sometimes exchanging cigarettes with teachers and presumably in full view of younger pupils. I'd be interested to know if any of our other contributors enjoyed such a liberal regime in the sixth form.

Can I ask please what type of school this was, a grammar school, a comprehensive school, a private school etc., and roughly how big? If I read your posts correctly the school had two headmistresses in succession. That must have been quite unusual for a mixed school in the 70s, which was still a fairly male dominated era at the top of most organisations, including mixed secondary schools.

I really am surprised that you are so philosophical about your caning in the fifth form aged 16 for smoking. Six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment. I am tempted to say 'especially for a girl' but to judge from your posts that would annoy you and I have no wish to do that! In all honesty though, when you knew that you were going to be caned, a very painful experience I'm sure, did it not strike you as completely bizarre that afterwards you might go out into the school yard and see other girls or boys, possibly very little older than you, smoking and even exchanging cigarettes with a supervising teacher?

My own school had a few things that one could do in the sixth form but couldn't (or weren't supposed to) in earlier forms. Smoking not included though, as I've already said! There were punishments for usurping sixth form privileges right up to the time one became a sixth former. Lines from masters and prefects, possibly if the offence was repeated many times a couple of strokes of the cane from the prefects. But anything as draconian as six strokes of the cane, certainly not! Given the smoking situation in your school I really am surprised that it saw fit to enforce that boundary so rigorously. Do you recall if many other people suffered a penalty like that so close to being sixth formers or were you just very unlucky?

 
 

A

Supplementary question

October 5 2009, 4:45 AM 

Hi Jenny again. I may have just answered one of my own questions. Are you by any chance the same Jenny who wrote in this thread at 11:04 AM on 19 September 2005:

I went to a private school in the U.K. and had to write out a thousand lines when I was 18 years old.

If you are it would explain a lot of things. It is a well known fact that almost anything could, and probably did, happen in private schools in the UK - even girls being caned in their gym kit, despite Rodney Bacon's scepticism (private joke).

For those who can be bothered to push the scroll bar that far back up I think the sadly missed Lotta Nonsense's response to the above post is quite amusing.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Who's A? The answer in full!

October 5 2009, 4:55 AM 

The above post is of course from me. I have absolutely no idea what became of the rest of the name, which was most definitely present. Probably something to do with the plague of green words/double underlinings leading to random pop-up adverts currently infesting this estimable Forum.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 5:12 AM 

Taken from the teacher chatboard. Given the other posters surrounding this "eyebrow raiser" the surrounding posters seem totally non plussed and definitely sound like teachers concerned about other things than CP. The chatboard has its pesters and they police their own however imperfectly. Threads have disappeared and teachers have asked the monitors to shut them down but they do have a way reappearing and shutting down. So take the story for what it is worth. She doesn't seem outraged bu her taking the three swats but almost non plussed about it.


On 7/14/09, Jennifer wrote:
> While I was student teaching a few years ago, I used the school
> pool to swim laps in the mornings. A few teachers and a lot of
> students on athletic teams would work out in the mornings too.
>
> It was a large high school and I may have encountered a student or
> two in the community shower who were in the class I student taught,
> but that was never an issue. I was only 20 years old at the time,
> and relatively young looking, and it was just generally assumed
> that I was a student. There were some fairly strict rules enforced
> by the coaches concerning leaving your basket out, disposing of
> towels, etc.
>
> One morning I left my basket out and didn't put my towel in the
> correct laundry bag--both apparently no, no's! This was at a high
> school in Arkansas where corporal punishment is both allowed and
> used frequently. One of the coaches watching from her office came
> out and informed me I had earned three swats with the paddle.
>
> It didn't immediately occur to me that as a student teacher I had
> some senority over generic students that would have immunized me
> from typical discipline. To make a long story short, I did receive
> a paddling, and have never since broken any locker room rules!



Twenty Year Old Paddled Maybe




 
 
Declan

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 9:25 AM 

I refer to the comments made by Jenny and A_L about smoking in the sixth form. I am about Jenny's age and was in the sixth form from 1973 to 1975, at a grammar school which became a comprehensive in my final year.

Smoking was probably the most common reason for canings in years 1 to 5, but sixth formers were not caned. However we were certainly not allowed to smoke in the sixth form and you still had to pay a visit to the Head's office if you were caught. I didn't smoke then , at least not at school, so I don't know what the punishment was if you were caught, probably just a telling off, though I do remember some sixth formers parents being sent letters about their kids over some incident ( I think it was something to do with soft porn mags being distributed ) .

Expulsion was an option, and quite an easy one in the sixth form, though I don't recall this sanction being applied, and would not be done for smoking.

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 2:16 PM 


Hi Another_Lurker and Declan

I find it most disturbing that in the 1970s, at what I take it was not a small avant-garde private school, it was acceptable for pupils, even sixth formers, to smoke at all, let alone in the school yard, sometimes exchanging cigarettes with teachers and presumably in full view of younger pupils. I'd be interested to know if any of our other contributors enjoyed such a liberal regime in the sixth form.

I saw your post earlier and I was surprised by it, so much so that I did a quick straw poll amongst some colleagues who attended different schools. The results aren't in any way conclusive and it was a very small sample size (four different schools) but the answers were 2 yes (with limitations) and 2 not sure. The results of a large (nationwide) sample would be interesting. One factor that might have had a bearing is that the two that allowed smoking were in areas with competing colleges (where students could smoke). If the schools had banned sixth formers from smoking they could have lost their students to the colleges.

Can I ask please what type of school this was, a grammar school, a comprehensive school, a private school etc., and roughly how big? If I read your posts correctly the school had two headmistresses in succession. That must have been quite unusual for a mixed school in the 70s, which was still a fairly male dominated era at the top of most organisations, including mixed secondary schools.

It was a comprehensive with about 2000 pupils. Here's another interesting story about the headteachers. The second headmistress was simply Miss.... (no post-nominals or anything) and the assistant headmaster was Mr.... BA (Oxon). At the time I was surprised that Miss... was appointed over the apparently more qualified Mr.... BA (Oxon)
The first clue came from the BA (Oxon) why wasn't it converted to an MA? Even then, he was still apparently more qualified than she. It wasn't until just before I left that I learned Miss... would be more properly addresses as Dr.... (with more post-nominals than she cared to write)!


I really am surprised that you are so philosophical about your caning in the fifth form aged 16 for smoking. Six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment. I am tempted to say 'especially for a girl' but to judge from your posts that would annoy you and I have no wish to do that!

There is a difference between a serious punishment and a severe one. As I said in another post, the cane is a serious punishment but not necessarily as severe as six full-blooded whacks with a slipper from the games-mistress. As for "especially for a girl", yes, in all seriousness it would annoy me, but I know you don't mean to. Looking at it another way, as a (mere) man you might think six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment (and it probably is for a boy): we girls are tougher. wink.gif Seriously, I believe a study has shown that women have a higher pain threshold than men and we have better coping mechanisms. That would make sense as it is we who are "designed" to endure the pain of childbirth.

Here's another little snippet to surprise you. Not getting the cane can be worse than getting it. I'm basically a very trustworthy person. I was very badly behaved at school (still am sometimes wink.gif ) but I wouldn't betray trust. If a teacher left a packet of chalk on the desk it could well find its way into my pocket but if I were given keys to the storeroom and trusted to fetch a packet, not one speck of chalk dust would go missing. One day a small group of us (about 5 -6 boys and girls) were press-ganged into shifting a load of paper from the reception are to the store room. Well, to cut a long story short, about four barrow loads left the reception and the equivalent of about three got to the store room. Some of the others were helping themselves to it on the way. Needless to say, one of them got caught and we were all sent to the headmistress. Although I, personally, hadn't taken any, I knew about it so we were all in it together. Waiting outside the headmistress's room, we were all mentally preparing ourselves for the inevitable caning. However, it didn't happen. When she spoke to us she was more disappointed than angry and, to be honest, I was very ashamed of myself for breaching her trust. If she had given me the cane, as I think I deserved, I would have felt that "the slate was cleared" but that look of disappointment had a far greater effect on me and, I believe, my "partners in crime". Suffice it to say, I've never betrayed a trust like that since.


In all honesty though, when you knew that you were going to be caned, a very painful experience I'm sure, did it not strike you as completely bizarre that afterwards you might go out into the school yard and see other girls or boys, possibly very little older than you, smoking and even exchanging cigarettes with a supervising teacher?

I knew I was going to get the cane the moment I was caught. It was the third time I'd been caught smoking. sad.gif That particular caning was a very painful experience and it certainly taught me not to get caught again. I didn't find it any more bizarre that sixth form students could smoke than teachers being allowed to. Was it not just as bizarre that, after leaving compulsory education, a sixth former wasn't allowed to smoke on the way to school but a former classmate (perhaps slightly younger) walking alongside, going to work next door to the school, was?

My own school had a few things that one could do in the sixth form but couldn't (or weren't supposed to) in earlier forms. Smoking not included though, as I've already said! There were punishments for usurping sixth form privileges right up to the time one became a sixth former. Lines from masters and prefects, possibly if the offence was repeated many times a couple of strokes of the cane from the prefects. But anything as draconian as six strokes of the cane, certainly not! Given the smoking situation in your school I really am surprised that it saw fit to enforce that boundary so rigorously. Do you recall if many other people suffered a penalty like that so close to being sixth formers or were you just very unlucky?

The rules were very clear and very fair. That was one, amongst many, of the headmistress's good points - she was one of the fairest people I've ever met but if boundaries were not enforced, there would be no point having them. I knew what the consequences would be, if I were caught, when I chose to break the rules. I chose to break the rule; I got the cane for it. My attitude has always been "don't gamble what you can't afford to lose." It's the same as any bet. I compared the "prize" with the "stake", considered the odds and, if happy with them, placed my bet. Most times I won but if I lost I couldn't complain.


Hi Jenny again. I may have just answered one of my own questions. Are you by any chance the same Jenny who wrote in this thread at 11:04 AM on 19 September 2005:

I went to a private school in the U.K. and had to write out a thousand lines when I was 18 years old.

If you are it would explain a lot of things. It is a well known fact that almost anything could, and probably did, happen in private schools in the UK - even girls being caned in their gym kit, despite Rodney Bacon's scepticism (private joke).


No, that was not I. If I have been given a 1000 lines I wouldn't have done them and taken whatever punishment (probably the cane) was substituted.

For those who can be bothered to push the scroll bar that far back up I think the sadly missed Lotta Nonsense's response to the above post is quite amusing.

I saw that, it is quite good. wink.gif



 
 

Re: Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 2:49 PM 

Hi Declan,

I meant to reply to this in my reply to Another_Lurker but I forgot, sorry.

I refer to the comments made by Jenny and A_L about smoking in the sixth form. I am about Jenny's age and was in the sixth form from 1973 to 1975, at a grammar school which became a comprehensive in my final year.

Smoking was probably the most common reason for canings in years 1 to 5, but sixth formers were not caned. However we were certainly not allowed to smoke in the sixth form and you still had to pay a visit to the Head's office if you were caught. I didn't smoke then , at least not at school, so I don't know what the punishment was if you were caught, probably just a telling off, though I do remember some sixth formers parents being sent letters about their kids over some incident ( I think it was something to do with soft porn mags being distributed ) .


I'm not sure what the most common caning offence was at my school in the first 2 - 3 years - probably persistent misbehaviour or truancy. In the 4th and 5th years it could well have been the most common offence. I suppose it is strange in a way that, theoretically, a fifth former could be caned on the last day of term for smoking but, six weeks later, returning as a sixth former, be allowed to smoke. It's the same with any boundary though, one second to midnight before your 18th birthday, you can't buy alcohol in a (UK) pub but, a second later you can legally attempt to drink the bar dry.

Expulsion was an option, and quite an easy one in the sixth form, though I don't recall this sanction being applied, and would not be done for smoking.

You're right about expulsion being easy in sixth form. Younger pupils might see expulsion as a privilege (no more school - Hooray!) but sixth formers want to be there. I believe somebody here said that sixth former were subject to corporal punishment at their school. Another quick "straw poll". If as a sixth former you had the choice of expulsion or the cane, which would you choose? I would have chosen the cane and a friend said she would have also because being expelled could have had long term consequences. What would others here have chosen?




 
 
Declan

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 5:12 PM 

Jenny

I am trying to catch up with you today! You asked whether a pupil would have preferred a caning to expulsion, and I can say that I would have preferred the cane. An expulsion would have meant getting your parents involved, the total humiliation of it, and a transfer to a lesser school where everyone would know why you were there.Simply not an option.

The only boy I knew who was expelled from my school at the age of 14 was a total B*****D. I had a paper round and I was accused of stealing money from doorsteps meant for the milkman. I had the police round to see my parents and obviously the newsagent was involved. Both stuck by me as they could not believe I would steal, but it was a few weeks later that I saw this boy from my school on my paper round acting suspiciously. I had no hesitation " grassing him up " and he was the guilty party. He was known as The Evil Pixie on account of his size and behaviour and expelled for that and other matters and I have never seen him again.

 
 
hcj

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 5:36 PM 

Jenny wrote: There is a difference between a serious punishment and a severe one. As I said in another post, the cane is a serious punishment but not necessarily as severe as six full-blooded whacks with a slipper from the games-mistress. As for "especially for a girl", yes, in all seriousness it would annoy me, but I know you don't mean to. Looking at it another way, as a (mere) man you might think six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment (and it probably is for a boy): we girls are tougher. Seriously, I believe a study has shown that women have a higher pain threshold than men and we have better coping mechanisms. That would make sense as it is we who are "designed" to endure the pain of childbirth.

I may be a (mere) man but I think your experience of six strokes of the cane must be very different from mine. Even if "designed to endure the pain of childbirth", I do not see how you could possibly describe six properly administered cane strokes as anything but severe. Six with a slipper, even when laid on hard, caused nothing like the intense biting pain of the cane or the physical damage that resulted from it.

 
 

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 6:26 PM 

Declan,

I am trying to catch up with you today!

I'm busy today as well! Actually I'm having to start jobs running and just keep an eye on them so I'm not fully occupied all the time.

You asked whether a pupil would have preferred a caning to expulsion, and I can say that I would have preferred the cane. An expulsion would have meant getting your parents involved, the total humiliation of it, and a transfer to a lesser school where everyone would know why you were there.Simply not an option.

I hadn't even thought about those things when I said I would have chosen the cane. I thought just what I listed were sufficient reasons.

So far, out of a sample of 2, we have 100% opting for the cane instead of expulsion from sixth form. I hope some more posters reply so we can get a more general consensus.

There is a poll on MisterPoll http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/452290) dealing with corporal punishment versus fines or imprisonment (The pollster uses the good old English word "gaol"). I know those polls have to be taken with a VERY large dose of salt but it might just be possible to glean some information from it.


 
 
hcj

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 6:35 PM 

So far, out of a sample of 2, we have 100% opting for the cane instead of expulsion from sixth form. I hope some more posters reply so we can get a more general consensus.

I certainly would have opted for the cane, however severe, rather than expulsion. A few days of discomfort would always be preferable to the risk of wrecking your academic career.

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 6:57 PM 

Hi hcj,

hcj wrote: I may be a (mere) man but I think your experience of six strokes of the cane must be very different from mine. Even if "designed to endure the pain of childbirth", I do not see how you could possibly describe six properly administered cane strokes as anything but severe. Six with a slipper, even when laid on hard, caused nothing like the intense biting pain of the cane or the physical damage that resulted from it.

My comment about a "mere man" was, of course, just a friendly dig at Another_Lurker for even thinking that -
Six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment. I am tempted to say 'especially for a girl' but to judge from your posts that would annoy you and I have no wish to do that!

I could have added that I just bent over the desk and got on with painting my nails whilst I was getting it but I doubt you'd believe me wink.gif

I got a proper "six of the best" that third (and last) time I was caught smoking and that wasn't the first time I got it either. I know it damn well hurts, just one stroke was enough, but I do believe women have better coping mechanisms for dealing with pain. What I actually said was that the cane is not necessarily more severe than the slipper. A caning is worse than a slippering if the same amount of force is used for both but a hard slippering hurts more that a mild(ish) caning. The feeling is different but the pain and bruising from a really hard slippering can be worse than a mild(ish) caning. If your about to get the cane, you know it might hurt a lot more than any slippering but it won't necessarily do so. To me, the difference is in the seriousness of the punishments. The slipper is an "everyday" informal thing the the cane is something special - reserved for the more serious offences. I see a similarity with fixed penalties and fines. A fixed penalty of £80 (?) is more severe (in monetary terms) than a court imposed fine of £50 but I think going to court and being fined is seen as a more serious matter.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 10:10 PM 

Well Jenny, you are certainly a breath of fresh air in this estimable Forum! I'm sorry about the

Six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment. I am tempted to say 'especially for a girl'.

I can't help it, I come of a generation brought up to regard women as delicate creatures requiring doors to be opened and seats on public transport vacated for them. If we ever meet you'll recognise me, I'll be the one who stands up when you enter the room!

Worse still, a former contributor here called 'ink-lined plane' said of me (at least, I think he included me, we'd had a few exchanges happy.gif):

I know as a fact that the schoolgirl CP deniers that have ruined this forum on so many occasions do so from a position of zero first hand knowledge in their own lives. They went to public school, by some miracle ended up straight, and can't get their heads around the nature of state secondary moderns of that time period.

The 'time period' he referred to included the 1970s and his claim was that in that period, and indeed from the 1950s onwards, girls in mixed state schools were subjected to a considerable amount of corporal punishment. As it happens I've gradually come to think that for some state schools at least he might have been right. And now here you are with yet another 1970s comprehensive school where, if I read you correctly, boys and girls were subject to the same corporal punishments. Further, where the corporal punishment ratio between the sexes was a lot closer to 1:1 than the 10 boys caned or slippered for every girl so punished that I'd always thought was about right.

Clearly this wasn't the case at every state school. My esteemed fellow contributor Declan, at school at roughly the same time as you, is clear that at his school many more boys than girls were subject to slippering or caning, and the few girls who were caned were caned on the hand. Many other people have reflected a similar situation when posting here.

I wonder where the differences lay? What determined if a mixed school followed the path of applying severe corporal punishments to both sexes and in fairly equal measure? Do you have any thoughts on this please? You have clearly given some consideration to a number of aspects of school CP.

I hope that we shall have many more discussions, but meantime a note on the MisterPoll you link above. If the respondents are as ill-informed as the originator I wouldn't give it a great deal of credence!

A woman and her husband were both convicted of the same crime in a Singapore court. She was sentenced to 5 years in prison and he to 2 years plus 24 strokes of the cane. She pleaded to be given the same sentence as he but was refused. Despite Singaporean judicial canings being brutal, she maintains she would have preferred that to the extra 3 years imprisonment. During her 5 years in prison, she was caned for breaking prison rules 22 times so is aware of the level of pain involved.

Correct, women are not subject to judicial caning in Singapore, but nor are they caned as punishment in prisons or other penal institutions. The story is a complete fabrication. I am glad to see that you say:

I know those polls have to be taken with a VERY large dose of salt

About enough salt to treat the M1 from J25 to J28 for a complete winter I'd say! happy.gif

 
 
Nero

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 10:25 PM 

Thanks again Jenny for your excellent contributions. And it's always good to see my old friend A-L eating humble pie!! (LOL)

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 11:10 PM 

Come, come Nero, 'eating humble pie' is a teeny bit strong! I'd have phrased it 'modifying his stance in the light of newly emerging data', something every scientist does as a matter of course! happy.gif

 
 
prof.n

RE : Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 5 2009, 11:16 PM 


Hi Jenny,

Your postings on the sixth form interest me considerably. I will make a few comments comparisons below.

As I have said I was in a fairly liberal sixth form for the independent sector but in no way did it really resemble yours , yet we seem to within a year or two to be talking the same era.

What is particularly interesting is that recently ( around April/May/June) if my memory is correct, there was a similar debate on Dr. Dominum's site ( Yahoo school c.p.) of this very issue and at that time I was in the minority , indeed several contributors could not understand that our school had a 'no cane' agreement in the sixth ( with the exception as I said above , if any student specifically waived their 'rights' in this regard). I will try to find/post the link below.

However we didn't go as far as you with smoking etc. We did have a common room which was 'our' territory and there was an unwritten code that 'our' rules applied there. But still we would not be able to smoke in the school as a whole We had a sixth form council which made us partly self governing in terms of routine day to matters, and we were consulted, but not necessarily listened to on policy issues which concerned us. I was chairman of this council and we did keep in close touch with the school management , I probably met the head say at least weekly, and the deputy head most days over something or other We negotiated but not always with success.

Much of our freedom was really a process of give and take. Staff members were allowed in our common room but only as 'guests' of student/s. This occasionally led to situations which defined our boundaries , albeit informally.

For example , one Armistice Day , I was asked at short notice to read a lesson at the 11am service at our ' Sister' school . The headmistress had decided ( on the day) that this lesson should be read, most appropriately, by a boy. Miss f our joint deputy head, with whom as regular readers know I had a strong outside links ( played country rock with her band and dating her daughter.) found me as she thought she would easily twist my arm. As it released from a three period chemistry titration, with my least favourite chemistry master, there was no contest!

However on the return to my school there was about 20/30 minutes to the end of the morning, too little to do anything useful with. As we passed the common room I broke off to go in. she suggested we had a game of pool or pinball ( both were available) I said fine and invited her in . I was surprised to find on of my friends 'skiving ' in there; worse he was smoking and had an empty can of larger....and a few more stacked in the fridge....... there was an awkward moment until she signalled her acceptance of the status quo by kicking off her shoes and breaking the ice with something like ' well come on now I'm here I might as well thrash you both at pin ball.....' Her skill at bumping and tilting on the machine pointing towards a misspent youth....?

It was through these sort of informal and often mixed messages that boundaries and rules were set. Nevertheless, smoking or drink in the main school buildings or grounds would have inexorably led to at least a weeks suspension.

As to caning. Well as I indicated it was effectively off the table except if the student chose otherwise. I have written elsewhere on this forum , I was indeed caned once in the sixth form ( yes! Despite leading the group that negotiated the opt out) . I won't run over old ground except to say in brief the circumstances were very unusual- it concerned a matter of principle/conscience I refused to 'grass' on a friend rather I took a stand which I believed accorded with the school's code of honour. .

If our head had been younger or less traditional I have no doubt it wouldn't have happened. Even this head however, tried to offer me a way out ,( a day's suspension on a half holiday!), but being young and headstrong, I waived my rights because, I believed two fifth formers had wrongly been caned for the identical offence, ( in fact it wasn't so , yes they had refused to discuss the issue with the head , but had also been insolent) For my honour (?) , and stupidity I took six of the very best!

As to the issue with HCJ, I can't really help. Having only been caned twice, four from miss F and six from the head, its not a lot to go on. Certainly slippering at our school were not in the same league, but as these was 'unofficial' and 'unsanctioned' I do not think they were much more than frank humiliation in class. The cane was seen as a genuine deterrent , and also something surrounded by ritual . Because it was onlt given by senior staff, it had this unusual status, which clearly was far fromn the case in many schools, where 'hit and run' wseems the order of the day.

Amongst the authorised caners ( six staff) there was a 'pecking order' and both Miss F and the head rated as 'hard' caners. Certainly many boys , especially in the A stream which I inhabited were frightened of the cane, but this was in my mind , largely induced by the fact that we bright students were generally exempted from caning ( on a red list) simply because of protecting our 'value' to the school. Because of this exemption it was just a bogeyman fear ; fear of the unknown .

Miss F disapproved of this process believing their were good reasons for allowing caning of all but a few with clear medical or psycho/social problems , and after my caning argued successfully for the ending of exemption from the cane for 'the brightest and best'.


In the sister school, Miss. F was the only caner. so on the boys scale they were bound to get it 'hard'. Actually her main claim to fame was almost fiendish accuracy, she was a good squash player and had a good eye......I have said before, that I was sure on my first caning she had laid the strokes on top of each other. Inspection later showed that was incorrect but they were very closely spaced, and neat so I could understand my mistake!


As I said on the other forum a lot of posters thought we were very liberal so would have been shocked more by your experience.

Oh and just one little point .I've forgotten who raised it in this thread...Just because someone retains their B.A. (Oxon/ Cantab) doesn't mean they have a problem.....one of the brightest Professors I know, ( who was one of my closest mentors) and taught in both UK and Australia, retained his B.A. rather than pay the £30 for an M.A. (despite getting a first......). Just because he saw it for the academic ' snobbery' it is .If you are surprised , I can assure you Dr. Dominum, and many Australian educationalists know exactly who I am talking about !


Sixth form caning discussion from the post below and ff ;-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/schoolcp/message/4679

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 6 2009, 12:56 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker

Well Jenny, you are certainly a breath of fresh air in this estimable Forum! I'm sorry about the

Six strokes of the cane is a severe punishment. I am tempted to say 'especially for a girl'.


No problem at all. In fact I take it as a compliment that you modified your opinion in view of what I'd said.

I can't help it, I come of a generation brought up to regard women as delicate creatures requiring doors to be opened and seats on public transport vacated for them.

Luckily, thanks to my egalitarian school, I was able to learn how to operate doors and locks. I feel sorry for those less fortunate women who, having attended sexist schools, a left unable to perform the most simple tasks. I sometimes see them shivering in the cold outside shop hoping that a man will be along soon to operate the door handle for them. I would offer to help them myself but I wouldn't want to show them up.


If we ever meet you'll recognise me, I'll be the one who stands up when you enter the room!

As I often say to anyone who does that, "there's no need to stand in my presence, you may kneel if you wish."


Worse still, a former contributor here called 'ink-lined plane' said of me (at least, I think he included me, we'd had a few exchanges happy.gif):

I know as a fact that the schoolgirl CP deniers that have ruined this forum on so many occasions do so from a position of zero first hand knowledge in their own lives. They went to public school, by some miracle ended up straight, and can't get their heads around the nature of state secondary moderns of that time period.

The 'time period' he referred to included the 1970s and his claim was that in that period, and indeed from the 1950s onwards, girls in mixed state schools were subjected to a considerable amount of corporal punishment. As it happens I've gradually come to think that for some state schools at least he might have been right. And now here you are with yet another 1970s comprehensive school where, if I read you correctly, boys and girls were subject to the same corporal punishments. Further, where the corporal punishment ratio between the sexes was a lot closer to 1:1 than the 10 boys caned or slippered for every girl so punished that I'd always thought was about right.


Practice varied a lot across the country. Overall, your 10:1 figure could well be right. In some schools girls were exempt from all corporal punishment and, in the absence of anything to enforce other punishments, effectively exempt from all punishments. Just a few schools like that would pull the mean average figure right down.

Clearly this wasn't the case at every state school. My esteemed fellow contributor Declan, at school at roughly the same time as you, is clear that at his school many more boys than girls were subject to slippering or caning, and the few girls who were caned were caned on the hand. Many other people have reflected a similar situation when posting here.

Caning on the hand does seem to have been more common for girls. A friend told me that, at her school, both boys and girls were caned on their hands. I'm glad they changed to caning girls on the bum at my school, it REALLY hurt when I got three on my hand.


I wonder where the differences lay? What determined if a mixed school followed the path of applying severe corporal punishments to both sexes and in fairly equal measure? Do you have any thoughts on this please? You have clearly given some consideration to a number of aspects of school CP.

I did wonder if it had something to do with having a headmistress rather than a headmaster but, from the limited evidence I've seen, that doesn't seem to be true. Women's Lib. might have been an influence, the timing is about right.

I hope that we shall have many more discussions, but meantime a note on the MisterPoll you link above. If the respondents are as ill-informed as the originator I wouldn't give it a great deal of credence!

A woman and her husband were both convicted of the same crime in a Singapore court. She was sentenced to 5 years in prison and he to 2 years plus 24 strokes of the cane. She pleaded to be given the same sentence as he but was refused. Despite Singaporean judicial canings being brutal, she maintains she would have preferred that to the extra 3 years imprisonment. During her 5 years in prison, she was caned for breaking prison rules 22 times so is aware of the level of pain involved.

Correct, women are not subject to judicial caning in Singapore, but nor are they caned as punishment in prisons or other penal institutions.


That's what I thought but I couldn't be certain. It's fairly well publicised that women are exempt from from caning as a sentence of the court and that girls cannot be caned in school but there doesn't seem to be much information about what goes on in Singaporean prisons. However, a search on Google ("caned in prison" women) came up with this
http://www.omnipelagos.com/entry?n=caning and another search (cane prison women singapore) came up withhttp://www.topix.net/forum/world/singapore/TI4P234TIAJ7G27GL/p20

That second one looks like it's what the pollster is referring to. The woman's name is Sharron, and her posts seem to start a couple of pages back.


The story is a complete fabrication. I am glad to see that you say:

I know those polls have to be taken with a VERY large dose of salt

About enough salt to treat the M1 from J25 to J28 for a complete winter I'd say! happy.gif


Only one winter? Sharron's story could well be a fabrication. It has a ring of truth about it but there are few things that leave me with a niggling doubt. I won't say what they are just yet because I'd rather you judged for yourself. I think you might spot what I'm talking about but, if not, let me know and I'll point them out. That aside, and ignoring the pollster's ignorance (or otherwise) of Singaporean prison practice, the answers to the questions posed might have some minor value - if the joker/fantasists could be excluded from the results.



 
 
Jenny

RE : Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 6 2009, 3:48 AM 

Hi Prof N.

What is particularly interesting is that recently ( around April/May/June) if my memory is correct, there was a similar debate on Dr. Dominum's site ( Yahoo school c.p.) of this very issue and at that time I was in the minority , indeed several contributors could not understand that our school had a 'no cane' agreement in the sixth ( with the exception as I said above , if any student specifically waived their 'rights' in this regard). I will try to find/post the link below.

As a sixth former had the right to just walk out, I don't really see how a school could having a caning policy in the sixth form. As I said, I'm not aware of any sixth former getting the cane at my school and, if sixth formers were subject to it, I'm pretty sure I would have got it a few times. wink.gif It's possible it might have been offered as an alternative to being "asked to leave" and, if it were, I think most of us would have taken it (I certainly would) but the situation never arose.


However on the return to my school there was about 20/30 minutes to the end of the morning, too little to do anything useful with. As we passed the common room I broke off to go in. she suggested we had a game of pool or pinball ( both were available) I said fine and invited her in . I was surprised to find on of my friends 'skiving ' in there; worse he was smoking and had an empty can of larger....and a few more stacked in the fridge....... there was an awkward moment until she signalled her acceptance of the status quo by kicking off her shoes and breaking the ice with something like ' well come on now I'm here I might as well thrash you both at pin ball.....' Her skill at bumping and tilting on the machine pointing towards a misspent youth....?

That was very similar to our sharing cigarettes with the teacher on playground duty. We were allowed to smoke in the common room. I think alcohol would have been frowned upon but a blind eye would probably have been turned if it were a special occasion and we were sensible about it. As I said in another post, the headmistress was very reasonable

It was through these sort of informal and often mixed messages that boundaries and rules were set. Nevertheless, smoking or drink in the main school buildings or grounds would have inexorably led to at least a weeks suspension.

I think we would have faced the same (or possibly the cane) if we smoked or drank in class or other parts of the building.

As to the issue with HCJ, I can't really help. Having only been caned twice, four from miss F and six from the head, its not a lot to go on. Certainly slippering at our school were not in the same league, but as these was 'unofficial' and 'unsanctioned' I do not think they were much more than frank humiliation in class. The cane was seen as a genuine deterrent , and also something surrounded by ritual . Because it was onlt given by senior staff, it had this unusual status, which clearly was far fromn the case in many schools, where 'hit and run' wseems the order of the day.

That was, partly, my point. The cane was something special and it was that, rather than the potential greater pain, which made getting the cane more serious than just getting the slipper.


As I said on the other forum a lot of posters thought we were very liberal so would have been shocked more by your experience.

I suppose it's just different attitudes to what liberty is.

Oh and just one little point .I've forgotten who raised it in this thread...Just because someone retains their B.A. (Oxon/ Cantab) doesn't mean they have a problem.....one of the brightest Professors I know, ( who was one of my closest mentors) and taught in both UK and Australia, retained his B.A. rather than pay the £30 for an M.A. (despite getting a first......). Just because he saw it for the academic ' snobbery' it is .If you are surprised , I can assure you Dr. Dominum, and many Australian educationalists know exactly who I am talking about !

I raised that point. Compared to the headmistress, the headmaster was something of a snob, he always wore a gown, so I doubt that held him back from converting to MA. The £30 (or whatever is was then) might have being an issue but I doubt that stopped him either. My understanding (and I'm open to correction) was that thirds aren't converted so that was all he got.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 6 2009, 4:13 AM 

Hi Jenny. Thank you for a most interesting reply.

I have inspected both your links re the Singapore prison caning of women and I stand by my original position. I'll be charitable to the omnipelagos.com entry and put their statement down to an error. The Sharron 'n Brian show is just a joke. I have been unable to identify the specific sources of your niggling doubt, probably because I didn't read more than a brief selection, but the thing just screams 'hoax'.

Like you I have failed to find any links other than those two which indicate that women are caned in Singapore prisons. Now consider the worldwide interest in the case of Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, threatened with a fairly mild caning under Malasia's Syariah laws. Amnesty International, Uncle Tom Cobley and all involved! Google web search 1,090,000 entries, Google news search 864 entries, Google image search 11,100 entries. And that for a caning which hasn't even happened yet, and which if it happens will be a mere six strokes of a light cane with the recipient fully clothed.

If as 'Sharron' claims 160 women are being caned every month in just one Singapore prison, bent over a 'frame', strapped down, and given up to 20 strokes with a 10 mm diameter cane on their bare bottoms, don't you think there might be just a little bit more evidence to be found than an entry in a dubious encyclopaedia and a forum on topix? Oops, sorry, I'm preaching to the converted here aren't I - you do say:

Sharron's story could well be a fabrication. It has a ring of truth about it but there are few things that leave me with a niggling doubt.

I am very sad to hear that your response when some old fogey like me stands up as you enter the room is:

there's no need to stand in my presence, you may kneel if you wish.

Always try to remember that a lady is a woman who graciously enables a man to act like a gentleman. (Flees into his nuclear bunker, slamming six foot thick steel door behind him happy.gif)

You say:

I'm glad they changed to caning girls on the bum at my school, it REALLY hurt when I got three on my hand.

This does seem to be a regular observation. I can't comment because (whisper it) I've never been caned at all. However, it may be that the practice of caning girls on the hand meant that they were actually punished more severely than boys stroke for stroke.

With regard to why some schools might have more rigorous corporal punishment regimes for girls than others you say:

Women's Lib. might have been an influence, the timing is about right.

You may well be correct. Mr Ing of Bacons school, who allegedly caned some girls rather more severely than than the norm during the latter part of his Headmastership, is reputed to have switched to caning girls hard and on the bottom because he thought that Women's Lib constituted a threat to school discipline. But Women's Lib was (is) a national movement. Why would only some schools be affected, as seems to have been the case? Did you have any indication that your second, bottom caning, headmistress, who seems to have been very liberal in many respects, smoking etc., was actually opposed to and inclined to suppress Women's Lib?

And now the main question of the evening. People who know me here are well aware that actually I'm not in the slightest interested in school CP. What keeps me visiting this estimable Forum has nothing to do with canings and slipperings of boys, and most certainly not of girls, and as for bottle green gym knickers, that is a calumny propogated by persons of evil intent! happy.gif No, what really makes me tick is an obsessive interest in the technical trivia of postings. So please, how or why when you posted this quote from one of my posts

About enough salt to treat the M1 from J25 to J28 for a complete winter I'd say! happy.gif

did the 'happy.gif' get on the end? I can't reproduce the effect via software, and yet I can't imagine that you typed it in, it would have been much easier and quicker to use the actual smiley, which you've demonstrated elsewhere you know how to do. Please, please, put me out of my misery, I really do have to know! wink.gif

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 6 2009, 2:00 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker

I have inspected both your links re the Singapore prison caning of women and I stand by my original position. I'll be charitable to the omnipelagos.com entry and put their statement down to an error.

I think I read somewhere that Singapore prison regs. do not permit caning female prisoners. I'll try to fine the actual regulations.

The Sharron 'n Brian show is just a joke. I have been unable to identify the specific sources of your niggling doubt, probably because I didn't read more than a brief selection, but the thing just screams 'hoax'.

Starting with her first post (Page 19, Post 385) she mentions the marks on her husband's buttocks but says nothing about those on her own (see later). She also say she would probably have enjoyed being caned. That might just be true when compared with three years in a Singapore prison so I'll let that one go as a poor choice of words.

In her next few posts she re-iterates how she would have preferred the cane. The, in post 395, she mentions how, in the men's prison, they are caned for breaking prison rules but she says nothing about the women's prison.

In post 403, "Fireball" poses the question about female prisoners being caned. In her reply (post 404) she then, for the first time, says she got the cane in prison. It's like she had only just remembered but in post 424 she says she got a total of 258 strokes during her time in prison. How did she manage to overlook that? She also asks why, if the prison can sentence her to caning, why couldn't the courts. I would have expected that to be part of her initial argument in her first post.

There are a few other things too but I don;'t really have time to list them.

Even the the Singapore government is highly oppressive, if c160 female prisoners are caned every month there should, as you say, be some evidence in the public domain.


I am very sad to hear that your response when some old fogey like me stands up as you enter the room is:

there's no need to stand in my presence, you may kneel if you wish.

Always try to remember that a lady is a woman who graciously enables a man to act like a gentleman. (Flees into his nuclear bunker, slamming six foot thick steel door behind him


You mean you wouldn't kneel in my presence? I don't object to courtesy but I don't want to be treated differently just because of my sex.

You say:

I'm glad they changed to caning girls on the bum at my school, it REALLY hurt when I got three on my hand.

This does seem to be a regular observation. I can't comment because (whisper it) I've never been caned at all. However, it may be that the practice of caning girls on the hand meant that they were actually punished more severely than boys stroke for stroke.


Most things ostensibly intended to benefit women, have exactly the opposite effect.


Women's Lib. might have been an influence, the timing is about right.

You may well be correct. Mr Ing of Bacons school, who allegedly caned some girls rather more severely than than the norm during the latter part of his Headmastership, is reputed to have switched to caning girls hard and on the bottom because he thought that Women's Lib constituted a threat to school discipline. But Women's Lib was (is) a national movement. Why would only some schools be affected, as seems to have been the case? Did you have any indication that your second, bottom caning, headmistress, who seems to have been very liberal in many respects, smoking etc., was actually opposed to and inclined to suppress Women's Lib?


I think my headmistress's intention was just the opposite. We were treated the same as the boys in all respects - not just in the area of corporal punishment. Women's Lib. may have been a national movement but it doesn't follow that it would have the same influence nationwide. Some headteachers might agree with it and other might be opposed.


And now the main question of the evening.

About enough salt to treat the M1 from J25 to J28 for a complete winter I'd say! happy.gif

[how] did the 'happy.gif' get on the end? I can't reproduce the effect via software, and yet I can't imagine that you typed it in, it would have been much easier and quicker to use the actual smiley, which you've demonstrated elsewhere you know how to do. Please, please, put me out of my misery, I really do have to know! wink.gif


I don't know. I copy and paste the post I'm replying to and, for some reason, the emoticon get converted. Your post ended with a happy.gif bit I see it's been converted to a wink.gif




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 12:49 AM 

Hi Jenny. Another excellent reply thank you. You say of poor Sharron, she of the 5 year incarceration in a Singapore female prison - allegedly:

In her reply (post 404) she then, for the first time, says she got the cane in prison. It's like she had only just remembered but in post 424 she says she got a total of 258 strokes during her time in prison. How did she manage to overlook that?

Yes, amazing isn't it! Some of our readers are partial to a good laugh, so I thought I'd prepare a little table showing the full extent of poor Sharron's suffering under the cane wielded by her tormentors in that hell-hole of a female prison. They really need to read the full unexpurgated version, but for those who can't be bothered to click through here is a summary, in a suitably lurid colour to match the story. And we think we sometimes get wild tales in this estimable Forum! happy.gif

Sharron's canings while doing 5 years in a Singapore female prison
On the bare, strapped down bent over 'frame', 10mm cane - allegedly! happy.gif
Caning No.StrokesCaning No.StrokesCaning No.StrokesCaning No.Strokes
118 71013121910
210 81214122012
310 91015122112
4 6101016182220
5 611101720
6 612101812


You ask:

You mean you wouldn't kneel in my presence?

Mmm, it depends! happy.gif

And you say:

We were treated the same as the boys in all respects - not just in the area of corporal punishment. Women's Lib. may have been a national movement but it doesn't follow that it would have the same influence nationwide. Some headteachers might agree with it and other might be opposed.

A very sound point regarding the possibility of Headteachers taking different views of Women's Lib. It may be though that unexpected results could be produced. We have Bacons, a school which caned a high proportion of girls relative to boys and where it is said that the Headmaster was very opposed to Women's Lib. We also have your school, which apparently did rather more caning than seems to have been the national norm, so much so that you have said in another thread that almost everyone was caned at some stage, girls being caned on an equal basis with boys. Here you believe that the Headmistress was in favour of Women's Lib. You say above:

Most things ostensibly intended to benefit women, have exactly the opposite effect.

Could it be that the caning regime at your school, which IMHO seems to have been fairly severe for girls, was actually an example of this?

Finally, with regard to the translation of emoticons into text when you copy and paste you say:

I don't know. I copy and paste the post I'm replying to and, for some reason, the emoticon get converted. Your post ended with a bit I see it's been converted to a wink.gif

I assume that you are copying and pasting in your browser. Is there any chance you might be prepared to say what browser, and what version thereof, you use, also if you use Windoze or some other operating system? This effect really is intriguing me, I don't think I've seen it before!

 
 

RE : Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 2:19 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker,

Thank you for your kind word regarding my posts.


I don't really want to labour this, but there is another point I should like to make.


You said Always try to remember that a lady is a woman who graciously enables a man to act like a gentleman. (Flees into his nuclear bunker, slamming six foot thick steel door behind him)

Six foot thick neutronium might protect you, but I wouldn't risk it . wink.gif

Seriously, have you considered that it could be discourteous to act in a way towards me that I find uncomfortable? What's more, from what you say, I am expected to put some effort into enabling you to do so.

I don't mean any offence by this, I'm just expressing a different point of view. In a similar vein, whenever I go to another country, I always learn the words for "please" and "thank you" in the language of that country before I go. Although most of the people I meet speak English very well (better than I in some cases) I think their words for "please" and "thank you" have a more immediate meaning to them so is more courteous than expecting them to translate (however little effort it takes) from my language. Why should they have to put any effort whatsoever into accepting my gratitude?



A very sound point regarding the possibility of Headteachers taking different views of Women's Lib. It may be though that unexpected results could be produced. We have Bacons, a school which caned a high proportion of girls relative to boys and where it is said that the Headmaster was very opposed to Women's Lib. We also have your school, which apparently did rather more caning than seems to have been the national norm, so much so that you have said in another thread that almost everyone was caned at some stage, girls being caned on an equal basis with boys. Here you believe that the Headmistress was in favour of Women's Lib.

No, I said I would guess almost everyone got the slipper at some stage and most of us got the cane. "Most" only requires fractionally more than 50% but even that was only a guess. The Headmistress treated us all alike. It might have been a reaction to Women's Lib. but I don't think so. She gave us, and wanted us to have, the same opportunities regardless of our sex.

You say above:

Most things ostensibly intended to benefit women, have exactly the opposite effect.

Could it be that the caning regime at your school, which IMHO seems to have been fairly severe for girls, was actually an example of this?


"Fairly severe for girls?" You're doing it again. wink.gif It was equally severe for boys!
Being treated equally is a small price to pay for, er, being treated equally. I didn't resent it at all. Yes, getting the cane wasn't a pleasant experience but neither is spending most of the weekend writing hundreds of lines. An example of what I said above would be where, in some schools, girls were caned on the hand to spare them the "indignity" of bending over. IME, being caned on the hand is worse than being caned on the bum. Therefore the "consession" made to girls results in their getting a more painful caning.

I assume that you are copying and pasting in your browser. Is there any chance you might be prepared to say what browser, and what version thereof, you use, also if you use Windoze or some other operating system? This effect really is intriguing me, I don't think I've seen it before!

I'm using Firefox 3.5.3 on a Linux system.


 
 
Jenny

RE : Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 3:37 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker,

I mis-typed at the end of my previous post. I'm using Firefox 3.5.2 on a Linux system (Slackware 13.0)




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 6:01 AM 

Hi Jenny. Thank you for another most interesting post. You say:

Seriously, have you considered that it could be discourteous to act in a way towards me that I find uncomfortable? What's more, from what you say, I am expected to put some effort into enabling you to do so.

I trust that you realise I was joking. If however I have made you feel uncomfortable I hope very much that you will accept my apologies. In any event I'll endeavour not to do it again.

You also say:

No, I said I would guess almost everyone got the slipper at some stage and most of us got the cane. "Most" only requires fractionally more than 50% but even that was only a guess.

You are absolutely correct, 'most' does indeed only require >50% and you did say that 'most' was only a guess. Rather than further misinterpret your posts I'll ask a direct question. Hitherto I, and I think some other contributors here, have regarded the Bacons School in East London as rather exceptional in that according to ILEA figures in one year 1976/77 it caned 18% of its girl pupils, a total of 204 individual canings, some girls being caned more than once. The figure for boys was 485 canings. The school had a roll of about 1000.

I had the impression, though your correction above means that I may well have been wrong, that your Comprehensive school also caned rather a lot of girls in the late 1960s early 1970s when you were there. Do you think it was in the same league as Bacons?

Thank you for the information regarding your browser and operating system. Your precision does you credit. I come across some people who don't know what operating system they use, and a great many people who don't know their browser version! I must now find whether the unusual copy/paste characteristic arises from Firefox or Slackware.

 
 
Jenny

Re: Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 12:17 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker,


In reply to my saying:

Seriously, have you considered that it could be discourteous to act in a way towards me that I find uncomfortable? What's more, from what you say, I am expected to put some effort into enabling you to do so.

You said:

I trust that you realise I was joking. If however I have made you feel uncomfortable I hope very much that you will accept my apologies. In any event I'll endeavour not to do it again.

I call it light hearted banter. Don't worry about unintentionally offending me: I can usually see past the words to the meaning. I was putting a serious point forward but trying to do it in a humourous manner. Standing when I enter a room is a bit like helping a "little old lady to cross the road". It's not a good deed if she doesn't want to cross.

Many of the rules of etiquette are quite practical but a lot are based on false premises and, in my opinion, best abandoned. I wouldn't get upset if a man stood (or performed so other ritual) simply when I entered a room, I'd probably just think him silly. It would be different if he were standing to specifically greet me but, in that case,I would expect him to do so if I were a man: just as I would stand to greet someone.



In reply to my saying:
No, I said I would guess almost everyone got the slipper at some stage and most of us got the cane. "Most" only requires fractionally more than 50% but even that was only a guess.

You said:
You are absolutely correct, 'most' does indeed only require >50% and you did say that 'most' was only a guess. Rather than further misinterpret your posts I'll ask a direct question. Hitherto I, and I think some other contributors here, have regarded the Bacons School in East London as rather exceptional in that according to ILEA figures in one year 1976/77 it caned 18% of its girl pupils, a total of 204 individual canings, some girls being caned more than once. The figure for boys was 485 canings. The school had a roll of about 1000.

So even there, the girls got off lightly. I cannot believe that boys were two and a half time more likely than girls to commit serious offences. In a very strict school where boys might be caned for the slightest error, it's even less likely that they would commit two and a half times and many caning offences as girls.

I had the impression, though your correction above means that I may well have been wrong, that your Comprehensive school also caned rather a lot of girls in the late 1960s early 1970s when you were there. Do you think it was in the same league as Bacons?

My guess was based on gut feeling rather than empirical evidence. I mentioned the "everyday" classroom slippering but days would go by without anyone in my class getting it and the same was probably true of all classes. However, just one, perhaps "token" whack (of which there were many) just once over the course of five years at school is enough to say that person got the slipper. Don't think that every slippering was serious beating - only a few were. The majority were just a physical equivalent of a "telling off". The cane was much the same, just further up the scale. I'm don't think my point about the cane being a serious punishment but not necessarily a more severe one has being fully understood. Another contributor said, "I do not see how you could possibly describe six properly administered cane strokes as anything but severe." Whilst that is true, the cane does not have to be administered like that. I've had "proper" canings so I know exactly what that contributor means but I've also had canings where the larger part of the punishment was "getting the cane" rather than the pain it caused. If all canings at Bacon's were "proper" canings, which, from what I've read about it, I believe they were, then my school was nowhere near in the same league.

As for the proportion of pupil caned at my school, most of my friends got it but, as I was one of the more rebellious pupils and "birds of a feather etc.", extrapolating from the experiences of my group might have given me a false impression. Again though, if someone got a "token" or "warning" whack with the cane, it would be known as their "getting the cane" so my guess might not be all that inaccurate.


You said:
Thank you for the information regarding your browser and operating system. Your precision does you credit. I come across some people who don't know what operating system they use, and a great many people who don't know their browser version! I must now find whether the unusual copy/paste characteristic arises from Firefox or Slackware.

I work in IT so I'm aware of the importance of version numbers. Something that really annoys me is when information is "dumbed down" so much it becomes meaningless. I thought that emoticon conversion was a "feature" of this forum so I didn't take too much notice of it. Let me know if you find the cause please.




 
 
Nero

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 1:29 PM 

Yes, I think that Jenny's point about how physical punishment was often more symbolic than intended to be really painful is well made. There was a similar issue a few years ago about American teenagers sentenced to a judicial caning in Singapore: there was a general outcry about their fate, but obviously the Singapore authorities didn't want to be seen to be back-tracking, so what transpired in the end was that the punishment was carried out as planned, but in a mild form. I think this issue of "token" whacks, sometimes not even recorded in official CP statistics, is an important element of how spanking worked in English schools during the 1960s and 1970s. It's difficult to trace now, except in the memories of people who experienced or witnessed them, but I'm pretty sure that it was often fairly commonplace.

Another issue of cultural history raised by Jenny is the feminist perspective, which came to wide public attention around the late 1960s/early 1970s. I've seen one or two reports from this time suggesting that there were changes of school policy in this era allowing girls for the first time to get the cane; so what we may have, particularly in state schools, is a period (the 1950s) when girls were thought of as too "genteel" to be subjected to CP, then a later period when gender equality made them more susceptible to it (late 1960s/early 1970s), then of course a period when the whole practice became much less common (the 1980s). A kind of inverted hammock effect, if you like. Fascinating stuff!

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 7 2009, 10:30 PM 

A beautiful actress Uschi Glass at 25 on a film (Klassenkelle) forty years ago may qualify as oldest spanked. I guess meaning the film title is thrashed in class in German perhaps at least in a filmed classroom setting is the oldest student spanked. Here is a synopsis published in the New York Times Movie Review and a scene from the film. You can either Google or You Tube the video Klassenkelle and enjoy.

Klassenkelle




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 8 2009, 12:21 AM 

Hi Jenny. More and more interesting! I am certainly going to enjoy exchanging views with you for as long as you choose to frequent this estimable Forum.

You said:

I call it light hearted banter. Don't worry about unintentionally offending me: I can usually see past the words to the meaning.

I am genuinely relieved to hear this. I recently quite inadvertently caused a longstanding female contributor here to question one of my posts and though I apologised and explained how my meaning and her interpretation differed widely I fear I may have upset her. This makes me unhappy. Except in a very few cases, which are well flagged, I do not wish to upset anyone.

You also said:

Standing when I enter a room is a bit like helping a "little old lady to cross the road". It's not a good deed if she doesn't want to cross.

Point taken. While not directly comperable I have a very guilty conscience regarding little old ladies crossing roads. Some years ago, at traffic lights with a pedestrian control at a busy road junction I stood for a moment alongside a stick assisted elderly lady and then, impatient, strode across without waiting for the lights. As I reached the opposite pavement there was a terrible screech of brakes and I turned to see the elderly lady about a quarter of the way across bent over the bonnet of a car which had rounded the corner at speed with the lights in its favour. She had set off over the road when I did, thinking it was safe. Happily she was unhurt, and hadn't actually been hit, just lost her balance in panic and toppled onto the by then stationery car. I have never done that since!

You said of Bacons School:

So even there, the girls got off lightly. I cannot believe that boys were two and a half time more likely than girls to commit serious offences. In a very strict school where boys might be caned for the slightest error, it's even less likely that they would commit two and a half times and many caning offences as girls.

An interesting observation, and one which has previously caused some discussion here. I was at a mixed Infant and Junior school from 1947 to 1954. It is a long time ago now but my memory is that girls were notably better behaved than boys. Classroom corporal punishment happened often in the Junior school, but certainly substantially less frequently to girls than to boys. If I had to quantify 'substantially less frequently' I'd say perhaps between 8 and 10:1 boys to girls.

I don't believe the teachers went easy on girls. They were teaching classes of 50+ unassisted and they gave short shrift to anyone who misbehaved. I well remember one case where a teacher went to considerable lengths to ensure that a distressed girl who was refusing to co-operate got the intended punishment. Boy or girl, if you stepped out of line you got punished 'pour encourager les autres'.

So why, by the time you were at school, did you find that girls were likely to misbehave at a rate much nearer to that of boys? Possiby the answer lies in the 1960s. A lot of the social pressures on women to conform to certain stereotypes, pressures which certainly extended even to young girls, were relaxed in the early 1960s. BUT that doesn't really deal with your perceived difference between your school and Bacons, where, the dates being similar, 'misbehaviour ratios' between the sexes might have been expected to be roughly equal. Maybe, as has been suggested here, certain girls (the prettier ones - allegedly) were selected for severe corporal punishment at Bacons and others got off lightly, whereas at your school the punishments were much more equitable.

You make some excellent points regarding degrees of corporal punishment and you say:

I don't think my point about the cane being a serious punishment but not necessarily a more severe one has being fully understood.

I hope that I've understood it, though it is necessarily a theoretical understanding. I was subject to one significant (to me at least!) corporal punishment at school. In Infant school, together with a number of other boys and girls, I had my bare thigh spanked repeatedly very hard in front of the class of the young lady teacher who'd picked us out for playground morning line-up offences. It wasn't the pain that upset me, although it did hurt, it was the humiliation and the loss of control. Even as a little lad I had to feel in control but didn't like being the centre of attention, and if you're being corporeally punished you aren't in control and you are the centre of attention! Possibly that is what you mean by:

but I've also had canings where the larger part of the punishment was "getting the cane" rather than the pain it caused.

There is clearly a huge gulf between any sort of caning and an Infant school spanking, which is why I say my understanding of your points regarding caning is theoretical! Nonetheless, in my case the effect of that spanking was that I went to considerable lengths to avoid corporal punishment thereafter, principally by behaving myself! Happily I was successful, other than a token one stroke in a mass slippering in Junior school. Perhaps I was a wimp - corporal punishment certainly doesn't seem to have had the same effect on you, but 60 odd years later I can still remember standing in line for, and getting, that spanking - so corporal punishment can be very effective! happy.gif

Regarding your precision about your PC software you say:

I work in IT so I'm aware of the importance of version numbers.

I thought as much from your initial posts, but it didn't seem appropriate to say so. System programmer or similar by any chance? I may be wrong, but the old adage that 'it takes one to know one' often holds good. happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 8 2009, 1:25 AM 

Hi American Way. What on earth do you mean by posting on-topic? Are you not aware of the long and honourable traditions of this estimable Forum? happy.gif

Seriously, a good find. I haven't tracked down any of the videos yet, but the New York Times review does say

the journalist/student is subjected to a mild spanking at the hands of her peers for a minor infraction

so I guess that's a spanking by other students rather than Principal, Teacher or Coach etc.

However, fortuitously the thread title does not specify who should administer the spanking, only (by implication) that it should be at school. So even if the review is correct you are still spot on-topic. Well done!

 
 

Re: Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 8 2009, 4:18 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker


You said: More and more interesting! I am certainly going to enjoy exchanging views with you for as long as you choose to frequent this estimable Forum.

Thank you. I, too, am enjoying this discussion.


You said: I recently quite inadvertently caused a longstanding female contributor here to question one of my posts and though I apologised and explained how my meaning and her interpretation differed widely I fear I may have upset her. This makes me unhappy. Except in a very few cases, which are well flagged, I do not wish to upset anyone.

Some people seen to go out of their way to be offended. Don't worry about it, you may have satisfied her craving.


You said (inter alia): So why, by the time you were at school, did you find that girls were likely to misbehave at a rate much nearer to that of boys? Possiby the answer lies in the 1960s. A lot of the social pressures on women to conform to certain stereotypes, pressures which certainly extended even to young girls, were relaxed in the early 1960s. BUT that doesn't really deal with your perceived difference between your school and Bacons, where, the dates being similar, 'misbehaviour ratios' between the sexes might have been expected to be roughly equal. Maybe, as has been suggested here, certain girls (the prettier ones - allegedly) were selected for severe corporal punishment at Bacons and others got off lightly, whereas at your school the punishments were much more equitable.

I think girls misbehaved just as much but we were punished less. Misbehaving girls contradict many people's prejudices about "sugar and spice" so they just pretend not to see girls misbehaving. You, as boy and man, might share those prejudices but I, as a woman, know what we're like. Considering your comments about the way to treat a lady, I mean no disrespect but I suspect you might be one of those blinded by that prejudice.

In another thread Declan said:There were also very few slipperings in front of a normal class of , say, history. If a boy and a girl were caught talking they would most likely be sent out of the room which did happen.

and I asked:What would happen if two boys were caught talking or two girls? I'm interested because your answer because it might support an hypothesis.

I don't think he's answered that yet (my apologies if he has) but you know what my hypothesis is.


Regarding my point about the cane being a serious punishment but not necessarily a more severe one, I think you do understand.

There are two major elements to corporal punishment - pain and humiliation. This is part of what I meant when I said: but I've also had canings where the larger part of the punishment was "getting the cane" rather than the pain it caused.

Even then it wasn't so much the humiliation (I never really felt that anyway), it was more a case of my knowing my offence was viewed seriously.

You said: There is clearly a huge gulf between any sort of caning and an Infant school spanking, which is why I say my understanding of your points regarding caning is theoretical!

Not necessarily. If you had a choice, would you choose 2 smacks with a ruler on your hand (which you know from experience doesn't hurt) or 2 with a slipper on your bum? I think most of us would say the latter was the more severe punishment. Now, imagine you're sixteen and you've been caught committing some minor offence in the playground or somewhere where there are a lot of younger pupils. You can have the ruler there and then (with all those younger pupils watching) or you can report to the teacher after break and have the slipper in private. Which would you consider the worse punishment in that case?

To give an extreme (hypothetical) example, I think being put over a teacher's knee, at 16, in the middle of the playground for a couple of gentle slaps would be infinitely worse than getting the cane in the headmistress's study.


You said: Perhaps I was a wimp - corporal punishment certainly doesn't seem to have had the same effect on you, but 60 odd years later I can still remember standing in line for, and getting, that spanking - so corporal punishment can be very effective!

That's not being a wimp. It's a little under 40 years for me but I can remember standing outside the headmistress's study, after being caught smoking for the third time, wondering if I was going to make history by being the first pupil to get more than 6 of the best.

You said: Regarding your precision about your PC software you say:

I work in IT so I'm aware of the importance of version numbers.

I thought as much from your initial posts, but it didn't seem appropriate to say so. System programmer or similar by any chance? I may be wrong, but the old adage that 'it takes one to know one' often holds good.


I've looked over some I my initial posts but I didn't see anything that gave that idea. What gave me away? I program systems and applications and, as I think I mentioned, I'll build computers as well. When I started in IT I was using punched cards and the mainframe (ICL 2904) had two 60MB disks. The company I first worked for had decommissioned its paper tape reader only a few days before I started there.

A "little" server I use now for testing has 2GB memory and over 2TB of disk. happy.gif

This is something I thank my headmistress for. At another (sexist) school, I might have been able to spend more time just sitting around, but I doubt I would have had the same opportunities to learn about technology (such as it was then). Overall, I did alright.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 8 2009, 10:36 PM 

Hi Jenny. Apart from American Way's valiant attempt to get back on-topic we seem to be monopolising this thread, but hey, it's the posts that count! happy.gif

You say:

I think girls misbehaved just as much but we were punished less. Misbehaving girls contradict many people's prejudices about "sugar and spice" so they just pretend not to see girls misbehaving. You, as boy and man, might share those prejudices but I, as a woman, know what we're like. Considering your comments about the way to treat a lady, I mean no disrespect but I suspect you might be one of those blinded by that prejudice.

I freely admit that any woman with an interesting personality and a good brain can twist me round her little finger without even trying. I'm sad that you think that makes me prejudiced!

You make an interesting case regarding the importance of the context of corporal punishment. You are most certainly hypothetically correct in my case when you say:

To give an extreme (hypothetical) example, I think being put over a teacher's knee, at 16, in the middle of the playground for a couple of gentle slaps would be infinitely worse than getting the cane in the headmistress's study.

Of the two elements of corporal punishment I found most unpleasant, both the above involve loss of control, but the latter involves somewhat less humiliation!

You comment:

I can remember standing outside the headmistress's study, after being caught smoking for the third time, wondering if I was going to make history by being the first pupil to get more than 6 of the best.

More than 6 seems to have been extremely rare in the UK scholastic context in the latter half of the 20th century, especially for girls, though cases have been quoted here recently at the Bacons and Rodney Schools. I trust that the inconspicuous nature of the gender specific qualification will assuage your anger! happy.gif

And you ask with regard to my thinking you might be in IT:

I've looked over some of my initial posts but I didn't see anything that gave that idea. What gave me away?

Let me say initially that I may be mistaken as to what constitutes your initial posts. There have a number of Jennys who have posted in this Forum, one of them in this thread back in 2005, who you've said wasn't you. A myserious Jenny S cropped up some time back posting in another forum and for some strange reason a contributor here kept informing me that she was an alter ego of someone in this Forum, identity unspecified. I've assumed that your first contribution was October 3 in this thread, but I may have missed something.

As regards 'what gave you away', let's just say a tendancy to metaphorically dot all the i's and cross all the t's, plus, as I said, it takes one to know one.

You say:

When I started in IT I was using punched cards and the mainframe (ICL 2904) had two 60MB disks.

The 2900 range! Great machines! I worked for a few years with twin dual OCP 2980s running VME/B. That was the era of the weekend long punched card updates. happy.gif Giant EDS200 packs costing a fortune and holding a measley 200Mb. I saw an operator fall down through a missing floor tile once carrying two of them. Amazingly he kept them out of harm's way and didn't sustain any damage himself!

You also say:

as I think I mentioned, I'll build computers as well

I certainly missed that, possibly proving that I am mistaken about your earliest posts.

And finally you say:

This is something I thank my headmistress for. At another (sexist) school, I might have been able to spend more time just sitting around, but I doubt I would have had the same opportunities to learn about technology (such as it was then). Overall, I did alright.

Certainly sounds that way to me!

 
 

RE : Oldest spanked or given school detention

October 9 2009, 12:11 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker,

You said I freely admit that any woman with an interesting personality and a good brain can twist me round her little finger without even trying. I'm sad that you think that makes me prejudiced!

Most men are put off by women with brains. Don't take my suggesting you're prejudiced too much to heart. We all are to some extent. Making any sort of judgement without supporting evidence, is prejudice.


You said: More than 6 seems to have been extremely rare in the UK scholastic context in the latter half of the 20th century, especially for girls, though cases have been quoted here recently at the Bacons and Rodney Schools. I trust that the inconspicuous nature of the gender specific qualification will assuage your anger!

I think you're right. That being especially for girls was result of others' prejudices and sexism - not yours, so I don't object to your use of that qualification at all.

Let me say initially that I may be mistaken as to what constitutes your initial posts. There have a number of Jennys who have posted in this Forum, one of them in this thread back in 2005, who you've said wasn't you. A myserious Jenny S cropped up some time back posting in another forum and for some strange reason a contributor here kept informing me that she was an alter ego of someone in this Forum, identity unspecified. I've assumed that your first contribution was October 3 in this thread, but I may have missed something.

I thought I came to this forum before October 3 but, looking at my post of that date, I think it was my first so you're probably right. I am not the Jenny of 2005 nor Jenny S.

As regards 'what gave you away', let's just say a tendancy to metaphorically dot all the i's and cross all the t's, plus, as I said, it takes one to know one.

You say:

When I started in IT I was using punched cards and the mainframe (ICL 2904) had two 60MB disks.

The 2900 range! Great machines! I worked for a few years with twin dual OCP 2980s running VME/B. That was the era of the weekend long punched card updates. Giant EDS200 packs costing a fortune and holding a measley 200Mb. I saw an operator fall down through a missing floor tile once carrying two of them. Amazingly he kept them out of harm's way and didn't sustain any damage himself!


The disks on the 2904 were 2 EDS60's. I later moved to another company running and ICL2958 and a 2960 both with EDS200's. Tiny by today's standards but quite impressive then. I'm not surprised that operator keeps the disks out of harm's way. Disks were expensive - you can always get another operator. wink.gif



You also say:

as I think I mentioned, I'll build computers as well

I certainly missed that, possibly proving that I am mistaken about your earliest posts.


Thinking about it, I may have mentioned that in another forum. Last week, a server failed and, as there was nobody else available, I grabbed the box, gutted it and re-built it. I had to replace the M/B and CPU. It would probably have being quite bemusing for people who didn't know me to see me, a director and, what's more, a middle aged sad.gif woman, stripping the machine and using the universal "technical" terms like "the F***ing chip's blown" wink.gif , re-building it AND, surprise, surprise, getting it to work! happy.gif




 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 10 2009, 6:34 AM 

I thought I'd just close what Steve referred to elsewhere as the 'Jenny & Another_Lurker's MAS' (which I think stands for Mutual Admiration Society) in this thread with a joke and some very useful information that everyone should know.

Jenny said above:

Last week, a server failed and, as there was nobody else available, I grabbed the box, gutted it and re-built it. I had to replace the M/B and CPU.

I don't do hardware, unless my friend who does refuses to help, in which event my efforts tend to be accompanied by expressions similar to the one quoted by Jenny. My one advantage is that I am static free and can thus proceed with impunity even if I can't find a radiator. Which brings me to the joke:

How many system programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

None. That's a hardware problem!


And Jenny also said:

EDS200's. Tiny by today's standards but quite impressive then.

EDS200s held 200 Megabytes of data, and when I worked on systems using them in the 1970s two machines with access to 16 of them (1·6 Gigabytes) could, in an emergency, support the billing system for the whole of the UK for a major utility company and some other work besides. So next time you're buying a laptop with a 350 Gigabyte hard drive, wonder why you need enough storage to run a major billing system for somewhere with 218 times the population of the UK.

The King James bible (old and new testaments) has 3,566,480 letters in it - count them if you don't believe me. happy.gif A letter equates to a byte. Add another 50% for spaces and the King James bible is still less than 6 Megabytes. A Gigabyte is 1000 Megabytes. So next time you're buying a laptop with a 350 Gigabyte hard drive, wonder why you need enough storage to hold 58,333 copies of the King James bible! happy.gif

Now, genuine in-school canings of students by staff only:

Any advance on a 21 year old male given two strokes of the cane on his left hand for running in a metalwork classroom in a New South Wales, Australia, State Boys High School, and the same person plus another 21 year old male given one stroke across the hand for forgetting their sports gear. Both in 1981. From Appendix B of the (Australian) Human Rights Commission, Discussion Paper No.1 Corporal Punishment In Schools and the Rights of the Child, issued in March 1983, prepared by Dr Helen Ware. Quoted by Dean Clarke in this thread on March 8 2004. They were Vietnamese migrants.

As regards the fair sex, can anyone top the 2005 instance of another 21-year-old in a class of mainly 13-year-olds at Bethany High School, Naalya, Uganda who got caned when the rest of the class did. Posted by alaric, complete with supporting link, in this thread on August 16 2005. She'd gone back to school to try to complete her education after a long gap due to lack of money. The link still works. It is rather a sad story, and I very much hope that she did manage to get the funds to attain her educational targets.

 
 

Oldest spanked in college

October 21 2009, 2:15 PM 

I came across a misterpoll survey where a claim was made by a former student that he was caned in his 20's when he was at the Cambridge International College in Singapore. He also claims that older students were also caned.

From the college website - it does state in their handbook that caning of students is practiced.

Perhaps not such a strange concept after all.

Any other former students of this institution - or teachers - care to clarify further?

 
 
American Way

Swift Justice Oldest "Boy" & Oldest "Girl"

November 16 2009, 7:06 PM 

Just a review Kattfish began this thread on the paddle and I think the paddle was what was used for the oldest male undercover agent (substantiated) and oldest female intern teacher (plausible) in spite of similarities with Lotta Nonsense posters from less reliable sources than the teacher chat board twenty years later when girls may be more likely to be paddled in the state of Arkansas. At 20 three on the bottom for the "Girl" and at 25 two on the bottom for the "Boy" the American Way and at 19 the Malaysian way. An added detail not provided by corpun is mention in a news story about the undercover police story. The life of an undercover narcotics cop posing as a high school student is always fraught with hazards, but a new peril emerged one morning last fall at W.T. White High School. That is when "David Williams" and some of his friends were caught lingering in the halls after the bell rang. The tardy students were herded into the gym, where the principal outlined their options - 45 minutes in detention hall after school or two whacks from the school paddle, a 30-inch pine model dubbed "Swift Justice."

Colin Farrell actually reference this particular thread from our estimable Forum but here is the detail omitted from his account about the name given to the instrument of correction (probably more often than canes for they wear better) "Swift Justice" (prof n would approve except for the size and the lack of holes). wink.gif

Tardy freezes still occur but I think mass paddlings in the gym are a thing of the past in gymnasiums although whole classes are subject to the same fate even line like Booneville. Maybe they were mixed genders (Jenny would approve though two for the "Boy" and three for the "Girl" they were for different offenses). wink.gif I doubt if there were innocent students there that weren't being paddled and were being there to be deterred like Memphis Charter School.

The police officer should have collected extra for combat duty happy.gif and the girl had no reason to hide her identity unless she in fact thought she deserved maybe not a bad idea for young slovenly teachers. happy.gif


 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 21 2010, 7:59 PM 

Uschi Glas (Klassenkeile) is no longer the oldest girl at 25 spanked but Amni Kadiki at 26. No spank is not my favorite site but with due respect to Colin Farrel it is the the Corpun of the ant-CP zealots when it comes to reporting stories.

http://www.nospank.net/s-vcu.htm

http://www.has.vcu.edu/bio/people/bios/fine.html

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 21 2010, 9:01 PM 

Try 40-it's the definitive oldest that any pupil's been caned at school.

Details will be revealed tomorrow, for those interested.



Steve

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 22 2010, 10:25 AM 

As promised:


This happened in England, in 1961, live on TV!!


This is the victim:



[linked image]





Yes, Billy Bunter, as portrayed by actor Gerald Campion, who was aged 40 when the 10th & final years' set of 13 programmes were recorded live in 1961. Gerald's Bunter suit included considerable padding to mimic the Fat Owl of the Remove's fatness, so any caning from Quelch could be given live on camera without Gerald feeling a thing.

He may have been supposed to be 14, but he got it at 40 and at school........ happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gifwink.gif


Steve

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 22 2010, 11:25 AM 

I don't think anyone can top that. Uschi Glas (Klassenkeile) is no longer the oldest girl at 25 spanked but Amni Kadiki at 26. Amni Kadike was spanked off stage (camera) that being said Uschi would be the one I would prefer to watch. wink.gif

 
 
Declan

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 22 2010, 6:08 PM 

Surely , Maureen O'Hara was 42 when she went ove John Wayne's knee.

Not a school punishment I know , but worth a mention.

 
 
prof.n

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 22 2010, 7:18 PM 



For a real caning ( sans padding) , I would nominate Malcolm McDowell in IF, with 10 strokes (assuming I counted correctly ) in the gym from Rowntree......the director Lindsay Anderson insisted the caning be filmed once through only and for real.....as is the tear from McDowell at the end ( reference for those interested the DVD of the Direcors cut alternate soundtrack)

 
 
American Way

Not a school punishment but worth mentioning

January 22 2010, 9:59 PM 

Hi Declan: I always enjoy your postings. Mary Louise Parker from Weeds was to television as Maureen O'Hara to movies. The most famous filmed spanking on television can be found in Moonlight thread with usual caveats. This episode was shown on Weeds (Showtime-Sky One) was shown on her 44th birthday. It was anything but a birthday spanking. Like O'Hara she didn't heed the threat and paid the price.

Mary Louise Parker Older Than Maureen OHara by a year.

http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/11/06/seventeen-of-tvs-hottest-women-over-40

http://www.comcast.net/slideshow/entertainment-fortyoverforty/30/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA9O_9OwQis

Threat

 
 
American Way

Weeds - Mary Lou Parker - Process Evaluation Impact

January 23 2010, 10:44 AM 

Sorry the fourth link didn't work. I tried all three links and they were working on preview with this. This is a passively linked posted as recommended with usual caveats. The Weeds spanking really is divided into three scenes. There are three remarkable elements that make the scene memorable. First there is not guarantee that the boss was going to work her over. Much like any gangster film the boss delegates that to one of his goons. Second she begs that he does it. He would not want her to enjoy it and he did his best to see to that. Third only judging by the look in the mirror she enjoyed it more than him.

The writers were creative and she played the part well. It is not surprising that she earned a Golden Globe and the television show would win an Emmy. I divided it into three parts. In business there is a model based on Process, Evaluation and Impact.

Process happy.gif

Evaluation wink.gif

Impact sad.gif

 
 
Declan

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 24 2010, 7:39 AM 

American Way

Thanks for the link to Weeds. I have seen this before , but not the whole programme, to see it in its proper context. Certainly a proper spanking which must have been quite painful. You have to admire Mary Louise Parker for agreeing to be spanked. I'm sure many actresses would have refused.

One older lady to have been given , not a spanking , but just one smack is Hayley Mills. This was in a programme called Wild at Heart, about a vet in South Africa. The programme is currently on ITV, but this was in the previous series about a year ago. She was bending over in tight jeans when she was given a good crisp smack by an elderly South African who she is now married to. She pretended to be offended at the time , but told her daughter about the smack with great delight the following day.

Hayley is in her mid sixties , so may be the oldest to have had their bottom slapped on screen. The clip is not on Chross which is surprising as he usually has every thing on his blog.


Edit: typo only


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Jan 24, 2010 7:45 AM


 
 

Oldest spanked

January 24 2010, 11:12 PM 

I'm pretty sure this clip contains the (mild) spanking of someone extremely old

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ojV1r1XHM

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 25 2010, 12:55 PM 

Auatralia and the USA were not the that far apart as these two clips show. The oldest receiving corporal punishment (playing the part of someone much younger I think)) is Naomi Watts in 1991. She was 23 years old. My favoriet role was her in King Kong. Both the corporal punishment scene and the religion class is exactly what occurred in my classes. Jusa as Protestant go to heaven the divorced went to hell. Clip i and clip 2 would correspond to my experience. They were modifying the habit in many ways than one following the Vatican Council II in my senior year. Is there anyone that has had a similar experience? As the native Americans would say walk a mile in my moccasins. You would not want to. sad.gif

http://aso.gov.au/titles/tv/brides-christ/clip1


 
 
Trilobyte

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 26 2010, 1:36 AM 

At the age of 24 I returned to secondary school in 1974 to complete years 5 and 6 at a Victorian high school. The school was undergoing major building works, and most of the upper years were exported to a combination of private and catholic schools for the duration the works were going on.

After enrolling to attend the school I was advised that I would have to comply with both the rules and the discipline, and wear the school uniform. At the time, I didn't think that I would have to accept corporal punishment and detentions for the privilege; but I had to.

The greater shock was when I was in the jurisdiction of both the private and Catholic schools. I had to purchase a school cap to wear when lining up for the role call, and having to raise it when responding with "Present, Sir". It also had to be worn when the rest of the uniform was being worn outdoors.

I think I lost my age while at the school, and the teachers saw me as merely a member of the 5th and 6th year classes only, and therefore meet to beat. During the two years I was enrolled, I was strapped four times across the hands for various offences at the high school. At the catholic school I was caned four times across the hands--three times on each hand on all four occasions. While in the domain of the private I was caned across the bottom on numerous occasions. The school maintained the right to cane you across both the clothed and unclothed bottom, with the latter used mainly to punish offenders who failed to show sufficient respect to the teachers. We were also beneficiaries of being eligible for being corrected with the "upper senior" cane, which was somewhat thicker and longer than the regular senior cane, which was used on those below fifth year year.

At the private school I did PE, physics and English, and suffered my first caning since age fourteen in my first PE lesson. After changing into our physed gear, the PE instructor discovered that one of the boys was wearing underwear, it was then that I remembered something being said about that in the information leaflet that we were issued with in our diaries. The instructor asked for a show of hands for those who were wearing underpants under their gym shorts. I, along with about two-thirds of the class raised their hands. We were ordered to go back into the changing rooms to remove the offending garment. When we emerged from the changing room, we found that the instructor had a cane in his hands, and he proceeded to give each of us four strokes of the cane.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 26 2010, 8:51 AM 

In my last posting I said Naomi Watts was 23 but since the show was taped in 1990 she would in all likelihood be 24 the same age as Sister Paul shown in the link. She was not the sister who punished Naomi. It would be funny because a frequent admonishment was respect your elders not without an unfamiliar ring from this estimable Forum. sad.gif The only picture of the incident appeared on Chross a site that I am loathed to reference by link because of it's adult content. The photo would certainly pass the test of taste and decency but not hotlink.

The expression on Naomi's face is worth the price of admission. wink.gif It wasn't totallly acting believe me. Keep in mind I've seen three guys (16 year old) bent over school desks facing their high school classmates in almost identical circumstances. What a stepping stone for so many of the players. Who would have known? Who would be the oldest on screen spanked or given detention in school outside a comedy? I think she would be?

http://www.australiantelevision.net/brides-of-christ/episodes.html

 
 
American Way

Susannah Hoffman 24 in Ann of Green Gables

February 12 2010, 5:57 AM 

Jennifer Pringle played by Susannah Hoffmann 1963 was 24 in 1987 and played a 14 year old. She looked older than the part but not 10years. Her expression is captured here when she realizes she (her of such privilege) indeed she is about to be strapped. What would the vixen expect (first row center bried shot in video with the innocent look? On her first day she sets off the firecrackers and then puts a snake in the teacher's desk. That's the whole point they figure she's a softy and the town fathers come down on her like a ton of bricks for hitting their little darling. The video shows her introduction as a teacher. Ann of Green Gables 1968 is adminsitering corporal punishment at 19 the age she is playing as a new graduate in the 1987 production.

It's a good scene because it was filmed so you would believe the last thing she was expecting to do and it was the last thing the girl expected hence the expression on her face is worth the price of the admission when she sees the instrument of correction in a teacher just 5 years older than her when she herself was 5 years older. Jen's sucking it up was to show Ann up in fron of the class and Jen won the battle of the wills. If you saw the viseo you would enjoy it much as I did I'm sure. Prince Edward Island wouldn't be the same without Green Gables as any tourists can attest to.

It could happen in the States. It probably does but rarely but theoretically 21 year old graduate could paddle a 17 year old high school senior but more likely would be ask to witness. What would be the minimal age difference in the UK and in your own experience? One young Sisters of No Mercy slapped me in the face that was 8 years older than me maybe 23 to 15 but she apologized 40 years later about 4 years ago while sipping her second martini as if I did make something of myself. I got an award among many from my college and it was a reception. Open bar for they can't break their vow of poverty. happy.gif I have good stories yet to be told so stay tuned. If it weren't free I'm forgiving and would have bought her a drink and another and another and another. happy.gif

YOU CAN'T HIT ME WITH THAT

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1785312211?bclid=1785356703&bctid=1786893117



 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

February 12 2010, 8:42 AM 

Hi American Way. You ask with regard to age difference in a school CP situation:

What would be the minimal age difference in the UK and in your own experience?

The first part is easy, school CP is illegal in the UKNote 1 so the situation doesn't arise now. In my own past experience a prefect aged just under 17 administered three strokes of the cane to a boy six months younger for repeated uniform offences. I am happy to say that neither party was me!

This was 1959 when the weekly prefects' court at my school was permitted to pass sentence of up to three strokes of the cane for certain rule infringments, and, subject to a right of appeal to the Headmaster, to execute the sentence. The caner was selected by lot, and punishments were witnessed by other prefects. In theory it would have been possible for a prefect to cane a boy older than himself, since sixth form non-prefects were not exempt from the disciplinary system, but as far as I'm aware this never happened in my time at the school.

The case in question was something of a cause célèbre because of the small age difference between caner and canee and because both boys were well known in the school though for very different reasons. The prefect concerned was a first year sixth former, very distinguished both academically and on the sports field. The recipient was a fifth former, a well known bad boy shortly due to leave the school at the end of his fifth form year. The latter wasn't happy but didn't appeal because he was aware that he'd get no sympathy from the Headmaster.

Note 1: It has of course recently emerged that school CP isn't actually illegal in the UK provided that the school has a religious or other special objective and is operated outside normal school hours by people who are considered to be 'in loco parentis'. A C of E Sunday School, if there were any left, would apparently be free to physically chastise its pupils. In practise it is not, so far as is known, the state religion which is taking advantage of this loophole.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 8 2010, 3:05 AM 

I find these exchanges on the most part credible and I would assume others would agree with me that the age of caning there is higher than we imagined. Is it proven? No. Is it a reasonable surmise? Absolutely. As you know the palms seem to be feared more than the buttocks as a target and 35 years ago in the Sydney Herald we read of the delicate bone structure of a girls hands sad.gif

http://www.forumjar.com/forums/topic/caning_of_girls_on_buttocks_in_schools

Delicate Girls


 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 9 2010, 9:02 PM 

Getty Images has become a quality photographers dream. Hulton Archives are considered a classic and are commonly seen in the newly realeased Life Magazine archives. I don't know if there are many mothers who spank their adult daughters but as more stay at home longer and longer I'm sure there are many that want to. happy.gif

It is an act of respectful surrender for the daughter to submit because there is no way she could be held in that position. This is not of the Betty Page genre. In other words it doesn't look as if it is set up for fetishists. I think many of you would agree? It is probably apart of an advice column but I'm sure it was a very rare event then but not totally out of the realm of the possible.

I'm sure a lot fewer parents are signing waiver forms in they know it's a woman who will be paddling their daughter. Parents that spank their children through middle school are more likely support school corporal punishment in high school. That becomes rarer and rarer the more north and west that you go in the USA.

With the demise of the rural Christian school districts fewer and fewer will paddle and I'm sure that will show in the now easier to navigate Office of Civil Right site next report Matybe even fewer than 200,000. There seems to be an expanding definition of disbility that exempt more and more students.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/92569276/Hulton-Archive

Getty Photo Classic

Vintage domestic CP

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 13 2010, 12:38 AM 

I posted: A beautiful actress Uschi Glass at 25 on a film (Klassenkelle) forty years ago may qualify as oldest spanked. I've posted here for it really isn't an old TV show is Katherine McPhee turns 26 on March 25 and it's classroom discipline even if it's television. Is NBC familiar to our readers as BBC is here?

A classroom spanking of an American Idol.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 13 2010, 2:19 AM 

The third link shows how a country school teacher (often a woman) used a similar over the knee single branch 100 years ago. Katherine McPhee was bigger and the lap gave her more support. It is available within the context of the bottom link or you can see it in Corpun's picture parade. That was probably the only way the blacks of her age knew about.

Might as well transfer pictures as well. He is next to learn you respect your elders. It's ineteresting that she expects him to respect her modesty and look the other way but I'm sure that would become the furthest thing from your mind when you're in pain which I'm not all that sure she was.

Note the use of the switch in the days of yore in this classroom. The rods where lighter branches were tied together were not the norm on the frontier. The hickory stick would be used for bending over but a switch for over the knee. I wonder if the picture was an actual caning for acting may not have played into the picture. What would prevent a camera person from snapping a picture back then? Do you think?

Respect Your Elders

Respect Your Elders Your Next

Classroom Over The Knee Use of Single Branch

 
 
Scott

Last 6th form spanking?

March 13 2010, 9:48 AM 

I must have been one of the last sixth formers to be spanked (in a state school anyway). It was autumn term 1983, I was nearly 17 and we had a new games teacher, Mr Davies, well fit and just out of teacher training college. I left my kit at home one week, not fancying rugby on a cold, wet day, and thinking I would get away with it. When I told Mr Davies I had forgotten my kit, he told me that games lessons were still compulsory for 6th formers and I would have to be punished. He said I could be put on detention but that would mean having to stand up in school assembly to explain the reason, most embarrasing for a 6th former he said. He then picked up a gym shoe and said there was a alternative and no one else need know anything about it. I said I didn't want to have to stand up in assembly and agreed to get it over and done with. I thought it would be one or two whacks through my trousers. Imagine my horror when he told me to drop my trousers and pants and get over the desk. I hadn't expected a bare bottom spanking when I agreed to be punished. He gave me six powerful whacks, applied to strike each cheek simultaneously and it really hurt. He then told me to get dressed and warned me not to forget my kit again and I made sure I didn't!

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 13 2010, 6:55 PM 

Cross-Cultural Discourse on Black Culture and the Black Family is the first link. Community 101 television show is a comedy granted nut it is instructive. Have you followed the stiry of the Black school in Memphis? It has historical roots and stories of corporal punishment in the Black Community has been done throigh Optra Winfrey television talk show. It has been the staple of black comedians from Richard Pryor to Bill Cosby. Some of these names must be familiar? Go cut me a switch has gone the way of urbanization where the back woods are vanishing. I would imagine the teachers who made a student bring the cane to them added more drama and submissiveness. Was that common? I'm transferring the shorter video link on bottom it works better but doesn't set the scene.

What is missed by some in the video is that the "water cooler" talk here is that it was no trick photography and those strokes were felt. She is not an actress. I'll leave that to the experts here? The jerking forth of the body in time with the stroke and anything thinner than her jeans would make it hurt.

Racial Difference

White Intergeneration with Grandpa Simpson and Lisa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTI1pxJI1o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0o0FhrXZNQ

Spankings are rare events on TV. It is clever how they worked it into the plot. Here is a review snippet from Jonah Krakow of IGN TV. Britta is a grifter in a two year college and Troy's grandmother is present for Family Day. Britta thinks she's charming but ends up agreeing with Teoy that she is a monster. Upon hearing that she is being called a monster Britta tells her so but the Grandma Barnes heres that Troy said it first so he is in for a whuppin. If he cries through hers I can't imagine what he'll do for his? The lack of black fathering means that often grandmothers raise their grandchildren. Even with fathering the maternal grandmother is living at the White House as I said before. She applied CP on her son (college basketball coach) but we don't know if she did it to the First Lady Michelle. I think Sashia and Malia are safe for I think they're grandmother is not like Grandma Barnes.

But the biggest culture clash came when Britta met Nana Barnes, Troy's grandmother whom she immediately and unintentionally insulted. To apologize, cosmopolitan Britta graciously agreed to get old-fashioned Nana Barnes a switch, but needed the definition first. "A switch is a stick she can use to whup you with," answered Troy.

Britta is normally seen as a smart character, but I loved how they used this story to knock her and her Northeastern sensibilities down a peg. Britta's moment of reckoning was hysterical, namely because Troy was even more upset than her. While Britta was bent over Nana Barnes' knee, Troy wailed in confusion about white people who've grown up in a fantasy world where they like pocket-watches and steamboats and have never felt the sting of a good beating.

 
 
American Way

Respect Your Elders II Different Angle

March 13 2010, 9:14 PM 

Anguish or Acting? You be the judge. I think they told her this is a crucial scene and it's going to hurt like hell but you're a big girls and we'll do it quick. That switch is moving judging from the blur. I don't care what she is wearing by the sound of impact not much Good for her she bucked up. wink.gif

Anguish or Acting



 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 18 2010, 9:20 PM 

I vote with anguish and not acting. It must be kept in mind that there would be no way that NBC would allow a dorsal view. Most in television without pity would agree that from the storyline that Britta had the spanking coming to her. Her condescending way couldnt go without a reality check. sad.gif A whoopun was probably more painful than she thought but definitely what Fran Bennet (Nana Barnes) took it to be and maybe others in the cast thought was needed. Here is Britta taking some consolation at the bar before she ends up getting Troy a whuppun. She wasnt afraid of calling her a monster because she would never put herself in that position on screen or stage again. If there are video buffs that think its acting there are more than afew visible hard ones shown in the short switching only video between :42 to 1:06. There could not have been many rehearsals. happy.gif

Commentary Television Without Pity

Photo Ounch I

Photo Ouch II

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 31 2010, 12:17 PM 

Jessica Serrafin ranked as the oldest paddled (school disciplinary not filmed). Depending on the month maybe Paul from Christian School Anchorage Alsaska may qualify. These definitely seem authentic. Do you agree? Maybe there should be another thread started for the the youngest and most. This school paddles from Kindergarden (Beth) to Paul 12th so that's 13 years of paddling without staying back. Why kindergarten school should be spanked over the knee and not paddled is beyond me. Bruising a bay's bottom I don't call Christian and IMHO is police blotter material. Goodness I sound like my fellow honoree Paula. I'm not sure are we the only Americans who shre that honor?

Walt I almost eeked by without swats, but alas, in my senior year I decided to "help" someone on a test. I had noble motives, but I was caught along with the person I was helping. Off to the office we went. I got an F on my test which I guess I deserved, but that was not near as painful as getting swats when you are 19 years old. It really hurts the ego.

Beth I went to the office everyday in Kindergarten to get swats from Mrs.Mason. I never went home and told my parents. Til the end of the week when my mom was giving me a bath and saw the bruises on my butt. I was in so much trouble. I don't even remember why I got them. My mom says I was disruptive during nap time but I doubt that!!



http://eo-eo.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=68299290625&topic=7013

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

April 18 2010, 7:18 PM 

Forget Naomi Watts as the oldest, Jennifer Miller at 34 gets that honor. She was born in 1972 and received CP in Catholic School, 5ive Girls, filmed in 2006. It was well reviewed with a short trailer in the New York Times that gives you a synopsis of this mainstream film with a glimpse of corporal punishment. Jennifer Miller has had a good career in both the large and small screen subsequently right through 2010. She is finally playing scenes befitting her age.

The video and rather heart rending photos are included. The schoolroom is adorned with Catholic artifacts, a bit over done. The classroom looked like a chapel. In my high school the boys were asked to bend over a student desk in the front row facing the students. That was very rare in the late sixties but the Irish born nuns were getting long on the tooth and entrenched in their ways. The younger nuns gave detentions. Maybe some of our veteran posters may care to comment on its severity and authenticity from a camera perspective. How hurting would she be? Would the pain make it easier to muster the tears? The boys in my school would receive half this dose and in their mid teens were on the verge of tears. IMHO hit for little reason like talking when the nun went to the girls room.

The last link is a wallpaper that gives a visual synopsis. It's a bit risque so some may want to refrain from clicking. No nudity but lesbian kissing. Unlike Bride of Christ I have not tracked down this film on this estimable Forum from its search. It's not a porno and similar scenes of school corporal punishment have been referenced and this may already have been here?

http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/358392/5ive-Girls/trailers

The star is Jennifer Miller. Her beauty and charms with the priests did not her exempt from corporal punsihment.

Jennifer Miller

Video Google: 5ive Girls - Just Like You Imagined

Or direct link: http://www.vbox7.com/greeting:4468c271

Some photos in progression:

Back


Front


Tears on the Face


Wallpaper visual synopsis



 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

April 18 2010, 8:29 PM 

Jennifer Miller was 34 when corporally punished. Her teacher Amy Ciupak Lalonde was only 30. They're both doing well as well as looking well. I guess that's Holywood acting. I guess that's Holywood looks.

Naughty student

Mean Teacher


 
 
Nathan Donnelly

oldest spanked or given school detention

April 20 2010, 6:40 AM 

I was 17 when I last corporal punishment at school and I had truanted science class and was caught by the school captain/headboy who took me to see the science master. The science master gave me six strokes of the cane on my buttocks and a week of half lunch detention where I had to write 50 lines

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

April 29 2010, 1:18 AM 

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/WTjK1k1dPAE/

Chinese 5ive video 47 minutes with corporal punishment scene beginning at 42 minutes.

What a boring film. I can't believe it was shown at Cannes. The full 97 minute is available from same source. I skipped the language pack

 
 
American Way

Mass palm caning of 2 dozen 20 or so year old girls

May 11 2010, 8:40 PM 

Of late some have called into doubt my gullibility when it comes to establishing the oldest spanked from forums, so I enter the two posting as an au contraire. I'll leave it to fellow contributors to this estimable Forum judgment and welcome comments. It breaks my heart to hear about palms so abused. sad.gif

I am professionally not a teacher. But I got number of chances for caning. During 2005 I was working as a computer assistant in a reputed private girls eng medium high school at Hyderabad, where thickly populated muslim area. In High school section each class got 3 divisions. All the teachers are carrying good canes with them and punishing the students. After my joining, as I am in the office, I cannot see the punishment to the girls. But some sounds of canings I can hear. Very first day, certain students are punished in the office by the HM (2 strokes in each hand), which I have enjoyed, because after leaving my school life I am not able to see such scenes. The girls (mostly above 20 years), because there (girls)birth certificate is not necessary, so at the age of 10-12 they are admitted in 1st std. Next week, the HM given me a thick cane and asked me to go to the gate and punish the late comers with 2 strokes in each hand. When I reached the main gate it is closed, and about 20-25 girls are waiting there. I opened the main gate all entered into the school compound. Then I closed the gate, and told the students to stand in line. Actually I was shivering because I do not have any experience of caning. I told them that as per HMs instructions you have to take 4 strokes of caning, and asked them to be ready. Firstly one very beautiful girl shown her right palm. It was very soft and pure white as they are using gloves in hand. I hit her palm with the cane in full force. With the 1st stroke one red line appeared in her hand. I applied the cane once more and asked her to show left hand. I do'not know when I got the cane in my hand I used my full force, most of the girls cried loudly and in palms became heavy red marks. Afrter punishing like this for one week, no. of late comers was nil. Any how I caned lot of girls palms and only once or twice some of them got injuries, but there was no complaint. One thing, I cannot apply cane lightly, it will be with my full force. Now I have change the job.

by Suja P.Nair Sat Mar 27 09:00:45 UTC 2010


Dear Nisha, my experience in a College level - I am B.Sc. Botany final year student in a private womens college, Trichur. 5 students are married. Here very commonly using Chooral by some teachers, if we dont get proper marks in class tests. Yesterday most of the girls numbering about 37 got caning on palms. My both the palms are swelling and red marks are still there. Two-two heavy strokes in each hand, those girls who do not score 80% marks in the class test. This is very common. We pleaded several times to stop this to the teachers. Only Lady teachers are using rattan cane (choral) pencil type. Each class there is a choral. Most of the times, teachers will beat the choral on table. When class test papers are distributing, the day is very horrible. Those who absent that day, will get next day one extra stroke. Some girls are taking 4 strokes in left hand. I cannot take 4 strokes at a time. Teacher asks us to show our left hand first and after two strokes I will withdraw the hand and show my right hand palm. But when I get even two strokes in right hand no home work can be done. Now I am not able to type because hand is much painful. Even my under garments cannot be washed. My mother knows it very well and applying & rubbing some oils on plam.

by Ujeesha Tue Dec 08 05:22:44 UTC 2009

Chooral



 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 11 2010, 10:59 PM 


Hi American Way. I cannot really comment on the second half of your post above, regarding the young lady caned at the BSc Botany awarding private college for women as I have no experience in this area. I can say though that I am sure the highly educated, westernised and very sophisticated young Indian professionals one sees in such numbers both over here and in India will have been more than happy to be caned like school children during their University careers.

As regards the computer assistant in a reputed private girls eng medium high school at Hyderabad in 2005, I am absolutely sure that this account is completely true. It is well known that computer people have a great interest in and enthusiasm for corporal punishment. Just look at the number of us there are on this estimable Forum! I am certain that any school Head, finding that they had a computer assistant available on the premises, would naturally arrange that any really naughty girls, such as late arrivals, were caned by said computer assistant to ensure that they were effectively punished by an expert in the art.

In the course of my activities I visit a great many families to assist with computer problems and I am frequently requested by the master of the house to administer corporal punishment to wives, daughters, visiting nieces and granddaughters, maidservants and other female retainers. I have taken to carrying a selection of canes in the car boot for this purpose. Everything from a light but very stingy junior cane for use on the younger girls though to a quite vicious reformatory cane for dealing with the more recalcitrant female domestic staff.

In the near future I am taking on support for the computer network at a nearby very exclusive boarding school for young ladies. My success in wining this contract was entirely down to my being able to assist with the corporal punishment of the senior girls. The Headmistress, a very diminutive and dainty lady, feels that she is simply unable to cane hard enough to make an impression on the bigger girls and had no hesitation in asking me if I would undertake this duty when I approached her regarding the computer assignment.

And I bet if I posted this in Forumjar with an Indian name and suitably modified Indian English phraseology you'd believe every word of it!


 
 
prof.n

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 12:10 AM 

Hi Another Lurker,

On behalf of the intrepid travellers club might I suggest that before venturing forth to your exclusive boarding school , which may be located in Scarborough or perhaps Aberdeen, you might also want to stock the car boot with

A Motorozed tawsing stool
Liquorice Tawses ....(preferably Mc Rostie)
A handbook on Greek Legends (especially the Minotaur)
A Tardis
One very large stationary cupboard.
A large book of Scottish girls' names

We look forward to hearing of your intrepid adventures , unless our Local Council Licencing committee bans you first. I post only a mean one smilie happy.gif in view of the glut which appeared afer the erupution of the volcano!!!!!!!

And I hope you don't mind , but other computer idiots like me needing for whatever strange reason to read the above post might need this tip : highlight the text. OK?

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 12:38 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker,

Excellent post!

I think your students might be getting a little worried as to what you're going to set as their next piece of homework. happy.gif




 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 3:48 AM 

And I bet if I posted this in Forumjar with an Indian name and suitably modified Indian English phraseology you'd believe every word of it!

It hurts all of us if one person is treated unfairly or disrespectfully by being mocked in such a sarcastic manner. Tonight that person is me tomorrow it may be you and you and you and you. Ones who trade laughs at others expense find their pocket empty at the end of the day and so it is for those who do not live by the golden rule. For someone to master the laws of network 54 you are worthy of being commended but I find little to commend in your posting in such an obviously hurtful way. I addressed this very issue of dueling, a bet is perilously close to a duel, and quite frankly I anticipated regretting telling anyone I found it annoying but I didn't think it would be so soon.

Corporal punishment practices among some nations of the world are different than ours. True, one can post deceptively, but my question was whether it was credible. What goes on in the Gulf area of MS comes as a surprise to many in the UK and the same can be said of Hyderabad. I would value the opinion of some readers from that region step to the plate for the benefit of believers and unbelievers.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4832c17f1e.html


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 6:41 AM 

Hi American Way. I am sorry if my post above really has hurt or offended you. It was not intended to be offensive, it was intended to be humorous (one smiling emoticon or 1000's of smiling emoticons all indicate I'm not being totally serious) and to highlight the fact that I disagree with you over the authenticity of much of what is to be found in Forums like Forumjar, which, although you don't say so, is where the two items you quoted came from.

I fear that you and I have rather different cultural standards when it comes to debate and discussion. I am accustomed in my life and work to an environment where equals challenge each other vigorously when they disagree. This does not mean that they dislike each other. It does not mean that either of them thinks that the other is inferior. It simply means that they do not agree and seek to establish that disagreement and to debate it. That is the way I have always behaved in this estimable Forum and it is the way I have behaved with you. If I did not for the most part enjoy your presence here I would not have tried to assist you on the various occasions you have sought technical assistance.

Latterly I have disagreed with a number of your posts. That isn't a reflection of my opinion of you, it simply means that you have moved into areas where I disagree with more of your posts. As with any other person who contributes to this estimable Forum, provided I stay within the limits laid down by the Forum Management, I am free to express disapproval of, or disagreement with, someone else's posts. If I think that the person is worth debating with then that is what I do.

I would point out that you have on occasion posted quite hurtful and unpleasant and, in my opinion at least, unjustified things about other contributors. Traffic in this Forum is not one-way. It is not reasonable for you to expect to be able to criticise others but to expect to remain immune from criticism yourself. However, I feel that you do genuinely believe that I am being unfair to you, and that worries me. I will try to ignore things that I disagree with in your contributions where I can, and I hope that will help in future.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 7:20 AM 

Yours is a half ass apology that I do not accept.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 7:26 AM 

Hi Prof N. I did consider locating my 'contract' school in Aberdeen, but of course the canes wouldn't have been appropriate there and good tawses, especially liquorice McRosties, are far too expensive. Also most people on here know where I live and that Aberdeen is just a touch too far away to provide effective computer support, especially as I've posted in the past that I don't fly. I also considered Yorkshire, which would have encompassed your mention of Scarborough, as nearly all our 'female' fun pesters were educated in exclusive boarding schools in Scotland or Yorkshire. In the end however I decided to stay closer to home. happy.gif

You suggest a number of very sensible items to add to my equipment to assist with my increasingly onerous chastisement duties - if only those girls would behave themselves! Sadly with the amount of computer junk I cart round in my car boot there's scarcely room to get the canes in, let alone a a motorised tawsing stool. happy.gif Weren't they a bit before your time here btw, have you been browsing the archives?

As you rightly point out, I am apprehensive now that my activities will have come to the attention of Your Local Council. One has to have a licence for everything these days, and while the car pays its taxes and has all the necessary documents neither the canes or the caner have paid for any documentary evidence of fitness for purpose or competence. I await the early morning knock on the door! happy.gif

You say:

And I hope you don't mind , but other computer idiots like me needing for whatever strange reason to read the above post might need this tip : highlight the text. OK?

An excellent suggestion and you do yourself a great disservice with your terminology! But I don't need to read it, I already know what it says! happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 7:38 AM 

Hi Jenny. Thanks for the compliment, doubly valued because you're well qualified to judge! I'm sure you've worked out how it's done. I think I've said here in the past that Network54 had chopped that particular facility, and so they have the way I used to do it. However, I can't leave technical niggles like that alone, and I've just discovered that if you can get rid of that ht­tp://w­ww ..............

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 7:49 AM 

Hi American Way. You say:

Yours is a half ass apology that I do not accept.

Thank you. I note your position and I shall take due cognisance of it in my future dealings with you.

 
 
Your Local Council

Early morning knock on the door

May 12 2010, 8:02 AM 

Right, we're rationing smileys! If you want to use them, you have to recycle them. When you've finished with them, take them round to the local tip and get a receipt. Then you can apply for a new quota. happy.gif

 
 
Jenny

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 1:44 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker





Hi Jenny. Thanks for the compliment, doubly valued because you're well qualified to judge! I'm sure you've worked out how it's done.

At the risk or ressurecting the A_L-Jenny MAS, I must bow to your superior knowledge of HTML & CSS



 
 
PC21

Oldest spanked or given detention

May 12 2010, 9:39 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker

I second Jenny's post of 12.38am today 12 May. Her later one is, with respect, prettier.

 
 
prof.n

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 12 2010, 11:45 PM 



Hi Another Lurker,

Of course ! The answer was staring me in the face wasn't it !!!! The location for your exclusive girls' boarding school....it MUST be Melton Mowbray! happy.gif


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 13 2010, 12:53 AM 

Hi Jenny. You said:

At the risk of ressurecting the A_L-Jenny MAS, I must bow to your superior knowledge of HTML & CSS

That does wonders for my ego! However, I am wise enough to know that while I can, for the time being at least, hold my own in this estimable Forum with only limited HTML and CSS available, in the real world of modern Web and Business computing the tables would be turned with a vengeance! I must also bear in mind that the title of the Forum is not 'HTML & CSS' but 'School Corporal Punishment' and there is absolutely no doubt that in the latter area your contribution has been infinitely greater than mine.



Hi PC21. You said:

I second Jenny's post of 12.38am today 12 May.

Thank you. Did you like the one in 'Teachers Who Paddle?

You also said:

Her later one is, with respect, prettier.

As, I am quite sure, is Jenny herself!



Hi Prof.n. You said:

Of course ! The answer was staring me in the face wasn't it !!!! The location for your exclusive girls' boarding school....it MUST be Melton Mowbray! happy.gif

Drat! You've found out! Now can I please ask that you don't tell anyone else or they'll all be trying to undercut me for the contract! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 22 2010, 2:57 PM 

German Taming of the Shrew. 40 years ago a male spanking an older school girl did not seem off limits from mainstream cinema in Germany. It's a genre of students terrorizing teachers and having a lot of fun while doing it. Uschi Glass and Mascha Gonska make it all the more delightful being on the receiving end. 1969 and 1971 was a different world.


http://www.ovguide.com/movies_tv/zwanzig_m.htm


http://www.kino-50er.de/deutsche%20klassiker40.htm


http://www.kino-50er.de/deutsche%20klassiker11.htm

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 22 2010, 11:43 PM 

Photo. Mascha Gonska at 19.

Shakespeare the Hard Way

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 24 2010, 11:36 PM 

An Eighteen Year Old Female Film Spanking. There seems to be a whole series of late sixties, early seventies situation comedies emanating from Europe. Another example is Liebesgruesse aus Tirol:

An Austrian professor of child psychology, applies for the position of Chief-of-staff (Peter Weck) in a newly built Institute of Teenage Psychology. So he will better understand teenage problems, the successful applicant must be a father himself. He is single and has no children. He arranges to have a daughter (Gitte Haenning) but after the deception is accomplished he is able to vent his frustration at the end by spanking her as if she were his daughter. This genre of film goes out of its way to legitimize the exploitation of post pubescent teenager not unlike the sexual harassment in Kiev. There is a counter impact to the sugar and spice in girls upon maturity. It's lecherous by any other name and perhaps not altogether different to the games played in Kiev. sad.gif

It may be acceptable in some southern states to have males paddle girls but from what I can gather, with a few isolated exceptions, this is considered a no brainer. These sentiments were expressed after the prom paddling of 18 year old girls, not much different than this girl, by a 34 year old Chief of Staff. Tirol, of course, provides the perfect site for skiing and place for psychiatric practice for child brats. What would Freud say? happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif


Synopsis: Click here Cover: Click here Outdoor Photo: Click here Indoor Video: Click here

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 25 2010, 1:15 AM 

Indoor Photo: Click here

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 31 2010, 6:23 PM 

I hesitated to post for some may criticize me as culpably gullible. The half ass (sad.gif apology evaluation has become three quarters happy.gif since I've cooled down.

It's worth sifting through for there is enough consistency to make credible certain accounts. Looking in real time, albeit second hand, IMO, has a place here. N.B. the response of Jordan Riak. The anti-CP zealots are everywhere.

Accounts Factual and Fantasy

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

July 17 2010, 12:40 PM 

With the average of 18 maybe some older? It looks like standard fare in the days of yore. What a way to get a pay raise? wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif Does it take courage because they might fight back the professor wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif or were they expecting a gender free pass? wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

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StevefromSE5

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

July 17 2010, 8:12 PM 

Hi AW

Thanks-this one almost makes the concept of performance-related pay worth considering!

Pity we've no more details about the spanking, but I suppose it WAS 1907!


Steve

 
 
andymr13

Oldest spanked or given detention - parents?

July 19 2010, 1:45 PM 

I came across the film Kes recently and it has a famous caning scene where 4 or 5 boys are given a stroke of the cane on each hand by the headmaster.
The film is set in England in the 70's and I remember reading an article that the film director told the actor who was playing the headmaster to administer the caning properly and not to hold back. The boys were not told in advance that they would actually get caned properly as the director wanted to see the real shock on their faces as the punishment was inflicted. He did not want the boys to "act out" their punishment.

You can see a clip of this scene on youtube and other sites. The boys reaction is very realistic and it certainly looks like that they were given 2 hards strokes that they definitely felt. Apparently the boys got paid an extra 50 pence to compensate them for their misfortune.

A particularly interesting aside to this scene happened a few minutes before the actual caning when the boys were lined up outside the headmaster's study waiting for him to finish morning assembly. Tehy were talking about their impending punishment and one lad said that if he was going to be caned that he would get his father to come to the school and take it up with the headmaster. The main character "Kes" laughed at him and said that the lad's father had already come down to the school a couple of weeks before and the headmaster had given him a caning as well.

I have read a couple of reports on other sites (e.g. Misterpoll) where teachers had claimed to have punished the parents of their students.Claims are that on the basis that, in the cases of very young students (first 2 or 3 grades) that the parents will be responsible for getting them to school on time and overssing their behaviour so that the parents should be more accountable for their children's tardiness or lack of application. In the cases of older students, parents have been summoned to a meeting at the school for continual or serious breaches of discipline by their offspring and teachers have supposedly resorted to punishing the parents as well to emphasise that indiscipline will not be tolerated.

The fact that this scenario was highlighted in a mainstream and popular film of its day can only mean that parents getting punished at school was a popular concept of the time.

Does anyone have any accounts of this to support the myth or is it just fanciful suggestion?

 
 

Another_Lurker

Groundhog Day?

July 19 2010, 7:48 PM 

andymr13 said above:

The fact that this scenario was highlighted in a mainstream and popular film of its day can only mean that parents getting punished at school was a popular concept of the time.

Does anyone have any accounts of this to support the myth or is it just fanciful suggestion?

I would refer my esteemed fellow contributor to the Kes thread which he originated on April 1st (no significance I'm sure) this year, where he asked exactly the same question, and to the replies he received on that occasion from distinguished contributor KK and from me. I am not aware that there has been any significant new evidence on this issue in the meantime!

And for anyone who isn't familiar with the YouTube clip cited by my honourable friend esteemed fellow contributor, details are to be found here.

 
 
American Way

Re: Swift Justice Oldest "Boy" & Oldest "Girl"

August 26 2010, 9:34 PM 

John Alderton turns his old flame, Gay Hamilton, 25, a gorgeous trainee, over his knee while sitting on a school desk and giving this student princess a few well deserved swats on the back of her dress with his left hand until his class interrupts her comeuppance and aborts the spanking. Saved by the bell, the class interrupts and she does not get her hide tanned as was promised in the video below.

click

Below is an interview and promotional and clasroom.

click

click

Video followed by photo of Gay Hamilton in the 1967 movie: "Challenge to Robin Hood".

click

click

 
 
KK

The Kes hand canings

August 28 2010, 9:20 PM 

The canings appear simulated to me rather than real. The headmaster pulls each and every hand down just before the cane descends. At no time is the impact of the cane shown which it surely would, if it happened.

The geometry also seems wrong. If the headmaster is close enough to grasp each boys hand with his left hand he is too close to use the cane. Also, the boys are standing shoulder to shoulder and the headmaster moves across in front of them. The hands must be to the headmasters left, much to close and at the wrong angle for a cross the hand stroke.

Six boys and 12 hands are caned in about 18 seconds. This is implausible fast.

The boys were not caned for real. But an excellent movie once you tune into the dialect.



 
 


Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 29 2010, 12:27 AM 

KK, the actors involve say they were caned for real.

The director says they were caned for real.

The cameramen says they were caned for real.

The man who did it (who was a teacher as well as an actor) says they were caned for real.

Their reactions - especially if you look at it frame by frame to look at the expressions on their faces - really do look real - and I don't believe they were acted, because in a couple of cases, they don't last long enough to be seen unless you break it down frame by frame. And the youngest boy especially, in my view, would deserve an Oscar for his performance.

I'll have another look at it later, to see if the hands are pulled down as you say. But I think the evidence is pretty clear personally.

 
 
Declan

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 30 2010, 4:56 PM 

My headmaster used to cane in exactly the same way. He would grip your wrist and cane you on the hand. He had no problem reaching hie target quite accurately. The canings seem genuine to me as are the boys reactions.

 
 
KK

Re: Kes hand canings

September 1 2010, 5:46 AM 

I would be very interested to see a screen capture from Kes showing the cane and target in close proximity.

Would anyone care to estimate the length of the Kes cane?

I have long been puzzled by hand caning and its mechanics. It seems a very harsh and dangerous practice and I assumed a small cane was used. I have never seen hands caned for real although I have seen and experienced hand strapping.

I can cane my own left hand conveniently, if the cane is shorter than the length of my own arm. My right hand must be located near my right hip and I can use wrist flick only. The strokes are far milder than would be possible with arm swing included. And rather awkward to deliver.

 
 

Dean Clarke

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 1 2010, 6:27 AM 

KK,

There's a book Life in a Secondary Modern School by John Patridge. He spent time in such a school in the early 1960s observing all aspects of its function. Kes was made in 1969, so we're talking a reasonably similar period. It wouldn't surprise me as it was published just a year before Kes was made and was quite well known for describing schools similar to that being depicted in Kes if it didn't have some influence on the film itself.

He has a whole chapter on discipline, and describes a couple of different types of corporal punishment in use of the school he was observing (which he calls 'Middle School' - he disguised its identity). One thing he describes is the formal punishment by the Headmaster and it seems to me somewhat similar to what is seen in Kes.




Middle School's Headmaster has a small compact office; behind the door there is a tall cupboard and it is on top of this cupboard that the Headmaster keeps his cane. This cane, that is feared throughout the school, is short, rather like a riding crop, being about eighteen inches long and about half an inch in diameter. When a culprit arrives at the Headmaster's door, after having been sent there by someone else, he is invited in; the boy may then explain why he has been sent, or make excuses for a known misdemeanour; if the excuses are unacceptable, as they usually are, these will be dismissed with the briefest of words; the Headmaster will quickly move across to the door just inside of which the boy is probably standing; he reaches for his cane on top of the cupboard with one hand and pulls the boy into position with the other; he grips the boy firmly around the wrist and strikes him across the hand, twice, four times, or six times according to the seriousness of the crime. This ceremony has been witnessed by individual teaches, and can always be seen by any boys on the first stairway inside the main classroom block.

 
 

Doctor Dominum

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 1 2010, 8:51 AM 

I have put a very slowed down version of the scene from Kes on youtube. I actually have been looking at it frame by frame as well.

I am convinced it is real - not just because I've read it is. It looks to me to be very real.

I do see your point about the hands being lowered just as the cane comes down but I do not believe they are being pulled clear or away from the cane deliberately. Rather I think the motion is a combination of the boys instinctive reaction coupled with the teacher/actors whole body rotating slightly in that direction as he brings the cane down. The downward motion starts less than 1/10th of a second before the cane strikes in most cases. The motion of the hand is much faster in the frame after the cane strikes. In some cases, we can see the cane landing - in others that came between frames and we see the hands moving in response to it, but to me the clearest signs it is real is in the reactions on the faces of the boys - particularly the first and last boys. The others seem a bit more stoic. But if some of those expressions are faked, the boys are master actors.

 
 

Doctor Dominum

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 1 2010, 9:20 AM 

Screen captures showing the impact frame for each stroke when I could get it (one boy only received one stroke front on, one was too tall) and also a range of the facial reactions. To me those reactions look very real - particularly the little boy at the end. I've seen enough young lads trying to hold back the tears, trying to be brave, after a caning, as the mean person who has done it to them continues a lecture when all they want to do is get out of there. He's exactly what I'd expect to see in that type of situation. Especially the third last shot. He's crying - you can only really see clearly that in a frame by frame view. Why would you fake it if it's not going to normally be visible to the viewers? If it was fake, he either wouldn't be crying or he'd be bawling.

Another point I think in favour of it being real is that the film, in general, follows the book by Barry Hines (A Kestrel for a Knave) closely. This scene is in the book, and the little boy's reaction is described:

"The first stroke made him cry. The second made him sick."

If you're trying to show a reaction, why change it from that in the book - in my view, because Loach decided, as he said he did, to get real reactions not fake ones - just as he did at many other times in his career.

kes001.jpg
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KK

Veracity Confirmed

September 1 2010, 8:40 PM 

Dr Dominium,

You have convinced me. But how cruel and unfair!

Theoretically, I believe that corporal punishment can be a useful tool and can be kinder than some alternatives but this movie, both the fictional story, and the reality of its making, raises serious questions. Unfair punishment causes much greater suffering than fair.

Whatever happened to the little boy in real life? And the other child actors? I understand that those involved in the first Lord of the Flies movie were greatly and positively influenced by the experience. The making of Kes would have required less immersion so may have had less effect.

A number of good movies with amateur and child leads have been made locally in recent times. Apparently, the key with the casting is choose people who are not too dissimilar to the role they are to act. You need a plucky boy with a bit of depth to his character to play a plucky boy with a bit of depth to his character.

The slow motion clip needs a warning that it contains graphic violence that may distress some viewers.

 
 
hcj

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 4 2010, 1:33 PM 

Theoretically, I believe that corporal punishment can be a useful tool and can be kinder than some alternatives but this movie, both the fictional story, and the reality of its making, raises serious questions. Unfair punishment causes much greater suffering than fair.

I am not convinced that either the fiction or the fact here is unfair. Considering the fictional story first, do you not think the boys in question were a persistent nuisance? Was it not their fault that they failed to protect the young boy and instead chose to let him take the blame for the cigarettes? I think in real life it would have been quite right that they were punished. It was unfair that the young boy was not allowed to defend himself, but it was a sign that the master was driven to distraction by the behaviour of the others.

As to the filming; having worked as a very junior camera assistant on one film with that director, I got the impression that he would never readily accept compromises. I think the boys entered into an agreement that the scene would be played for real, but with all the distractions of filming, failed to appreciate just how realistic it would be.

When you are punished in a real situation you are mentally more prepared, as you are not having to think of lines or stage directions. It is also likely, with their background, that the boys had little if any previous experience of the cane. One further thought - I would not have wanted to be the cameraman if he was forced to call for a retake because of a hair in the gate!

Personally, I doubt that the boys were harmed by the experience and they will always have an interesting story to tell. It would be interesting to know whether, as a result of the film, they were persuaded to oppose or support corporal punishment. I suspect we will never know.

Later in my career I worked on two or three other productions with corporal punishment scenes. In all cases they were faked to some extent, although in one James Joyce play that involved hand strapping, the strap was fairly soft but must have stung quite a bit. However, the young actor involved never complained.

 
 

Doctor Dominum

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 4 2010, 11:52 PM 

You have convinced me. But how cruel and unfair!

What do you regard as cruel and unfair. I'm a bit confused on that point.

From the perspective of the real world, the fact that a number of boys were caned on film when they weren't really expecting it might be regarded as unfair. I'm certainly not comfortable with the fact that that happened, but honestly it's not an area where I'm really sure what to make of it - making films and what is and isn't ethical is rather outside my purview.

So I'm just going to look at this from the perspective of viewing what happened in the film (and I'll also refer to slight difference between the film and the book here) and whether or not, what happened in that case would have been unfair or cruel in real life.

I'm actually going to start with the book - because the book does contain some pretty clear and unambiuous examples of unfairness that I actually think is slightly diluted in the film - the scenes are very similar, but not quite identical.

In the book there are five boys facing the cane - Billy, for falling asleep in assembly, MacDowall for coughing in assembly, and three smokers.

A sixth boy arrives with a message for the Head and the three smokers bully him into taking their cigarettes. He clearly doesn't want to do it but they threaten him.

Then they enter the room, they are lectured (very similar to the film) and they are all caned.

In that scene in the book, there is absolutely clear unfairness - the three smokers deserve what they get in my opinion. But the other three boys, it's different - MacDowall is probably innocent (he is basically pulled out of the crowd by a teacher who seems more intent on grabbing someone than caring who actually did it - and after all, all the person did was cough to start with). Billy - fell asleep on his feet in assembly - because he's tired. And the third boy - well, he's totally innocent, he's just the victim of bullying (although reading the book, he is actually dishonest in the end which removes any chance he had of making a final plea of innocence - I very, very much doubt he'd have been listened to, but rather than present the cigarettes, he presents some and keeps the other hidden and when they are found - well, as I say I doubt he'd have been listened to, anyway, but he turns a near certainty into a certainty at that point.

So three boys get what they deserve, and three boys don't.

The movie though is slightly different.

For a start - MacDowall. The cough in this case, is a little different from the book - a single boy coughs quite loudly just after the children have been told off for coughing uncontrollably. It's pretty clear it's a deliberate attempt to be funny and defiant. But MacDowall isn't the boy who coughed - he's just selected by a teacher forced to choose somebody.

Billy's scene is the same as in the book - he falls asleep on his feet during prayers.

The three smokers are also the same (and incidentally, one of them is the boy who actually coughed).

Then we get to the messenger - his situation is actually just slightly different from that of the book - while he is bullied into it, at the end he takes the cigarettes saying "If I get caned, you'll give me something."

His situation is no longer as clear cut as it was in the book.

Incidentally, in the film, Billy, also gets involved with the bullying of the younger boy.

The thing is, watching the film, I'm more concerned about what happens to MacDowall than I am about what happens to the little boy. MacDowall is utterly innocent in this case, and was selected simply because a teacher wasn't willing to stand up to the Head. Yes, the younger boy is bullied but his last statement makes him less than totally blameless (a statement that is not in the book). The smokers - no sympathy for them. Billy, I still think gets a raw deal - a boy who manages to fall asleep while standing up would be a cause for concern for me - but Mr Gryce is Head of a school where large numbers of his students have issues in their home lives similar to Billy's. There's cruelty there, but it's a widespead cruelty that affects everything.

Theoretically, I believe that corporal punishment can be a useful tool and can be kinder than some alternatives but this movie, both the fictional story, and the reality of its making, raises serious questions. Unfair punishment causes much greater suffering than fair.

Yes, it does - which is why I view fairness as critical - even though there seems to be some on this forum who thinks I shouldn't, and objects to me raising the issue in a discussion else where.

Whatever happened to the little boy in real life? And the other child actors? I understand that those involved in the first Lord of the Flies movie were greatly and positively influenced by the experience. The making of Kes would have required less immersion so may have had less effect.

We don't know the actors name, so I'm not sure how you'd find out what happened to him. To the best of my knowledge, the only child actor in the film who went on to future professional work as an actor was the star - David (Dai) Bradley. He actually had a relatively successful career through the 1970s with some appearances after that - he was most successful on the stage including a two year world tour as the lead in the play Equus (the same role Daniel Radcliffe/Harry Potter more recently took on. As his life up until making Kes was basically on the same trajectory as Billy Caspers - Bradley did expect his most likely lot in life was to become a miner, something he didn't want to do.

As far as Bradley is concerned, the worst part of the filming process was the football match, and also being told that one of the kestrel hawks with which he had worked had been deliberately killed for the final scenes of the film (not true, as it turned out, but Ken Loach wanted him to believe this, to get real emotions in reaction to the death of Kes). The caning scene doesn't seem to have particularly worried him, nor does he seem to believe it worried the other boys (he wasn't happy about the fact that they weren't clearly told it was going to be for real - they only found out when they were actually caned - most of the boys had been caned at school before, the youngest boy apparently had not).

The slow motion clip needs a warning that it contains graphic violence that may distress some viewers.

That clip is unlisted and can only be found by people who have the URL (it doesn't show up in youtube searches).. The only place I've shared the URL is here, where I think it was clearly stated what it showed.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 20 2010, 4:00 AM 

Christchurch Caversham Industrial School girls of 19 and 20 were strapped on practically their bare backs in 1908. Harriet Petrement disliked doing so. Things have changed 102 years later haven't they?

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 20 2010, 8:18 PM 

1887 Spankling

CLICK

The coachman's spankling resulted in giving a poor English school teacher on of the leading positions in Parisian Society

2010 Wrestling + Spanking = Spankling

Spankling Match

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Trish vs Stephanie Spankling Match

 
 
Nathan

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 22 2010, 5:09 AM 

I was caned by the science master for truanting science class when I was seventeen. The science labs were in a sqaure shape with an open area in the middle of the square. He decided to cane me in the open before classes. I received the first stroke and three girls walked through the area and saw Mr Perritt and I, they were promptly told to move on and I saw them walking away as I was bent over and the second stroke landed. He gave me the full six strokes. Mr Perritt had caned me in front of the class once before and his canings were very, very painful.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 24 2010, 6:50 PM 

How old is too old for a girl to be corporally punished, i.e., non-consensually? Jessica Serafin may not have been the oldest.

CLICK

 
 
KK

The dangers of hating algebra at 21

October 24 2010, 8:07 PM 


 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

December 17 2010, 9:25 PM 

Biggest scholar ever spanked?

Click

 
 

Age at last punishment

January 5 2011, 4:05 PM 

I have been interested to read that some people think students in their late teens were never corporally punished. I can't speak for girs but I was at a boys grammar school in the 70s and, although corporal punishment was less common after the age of 16, it did happen.

I was 17 and was in the Lower 6th when I was last punished - along with several others involved in an unruly ruck in the common room.

We each received the cane six times across our bottoms (with trousers on) while bending over touching our toes. It was given by the Deputy Headmaster in his study and we were all there throughout so witnessed the canings of our classmates.

As far as I know it did not enter any of our minds to refuse the punishment.

It was only the second time I had been caned, although I had been given the slipper and strap before. I also have no doubt that if found myself in the position of being caned again that year or the nest, I would not have refused.

 
 
American Way

Re: Susannah Hoffman 24 in Ann of Green Gables

January 29 2011, 3:39 AM 

Susannah Hoffman 24 in Ann of Green Gables. This is a period piece where strap on the hand would be the instrument of correction and target. The first link gives background to the corporal punishment scene that has caused the book being taken off reading lists. Good grief. How politically correct can you get? The scene has appeared on you tube (not presently) and the series is now being digitally mastered. The first link gives background.

http://samjshah.com/2008/08/18/anne-of-green-gables-story-of-a-green-teacher/

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Oldest etc etc

January 29 2011, 12:09 PM 

Was caned along with girlfriend at school aged 17 [she was 16]. Six each on bums through clothing. The following year she got the same again. Another time she got the strap, 2 on each hand, at the end of a detention. Could cheerfully have given her a hiding too, as I had to sit for 45 mins waiting to give her a lift.

And now, back to the film-clips >>>>>>>>> happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: First Day Teachers Blues

January 29 2011, 10:07 PM 

Hi American Way. Hope you don't object, but I've moved Ann of Green Gables back here. The 'Your TV Tonight' thread is intended to be for the notification of imminently upcoming (in the next 24 hours or so) TV programs to the eagerly awaiting readership of this estimable Forum - those of them who can afford TV Licences that is! happy.gif

Congratulations on locating the YouTube clip. I'll repeat your link here.

You said in the other thread:

I found the PBS television special episode where the new teacher from Prince Edwards Island when Anne Shirley meets her nemesis, Jen Pringle. It should be watched from the beginning to get a flavor of turn of the century schooling in a private girl school. Meg Follows and Susannah Hofmann played the parts and between 6 to 8 minutes is when the strapping scene occurs.

And also:

The confrontation between Jen Pringle and Anne Shirley is between six to eight minutes into the video. Im sure our Jenny would take the strap over lines and detentions. Jen teasingly calls out her age that was not so far from true life. Jenny would prefer the strapping to lines or detention but maybe on a more substantial target. wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

Well, I have to say that's the strangest looking strap I've ever seen!

Ann of Green Gables. Jen Pringle gets the strap - or should that be the cane?
Jen Pringle gets the strap - or should that be the cane?

Mind you, our very own Jenny would be quite familiar with it because it looks to me as if it's a cane! Perhaps turn of the century (19th to 20th century that is) US private schools for girls emulated the fashion of UK girls' schools! happy.gif

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 29 2011, 10:45 PM 

Thanks for the picture and change of thread that's most appropriate. In the book version it was a strap. Her nemesis won the battle of wills. Or did she not? It was like you're not going to hit me!!! Oh well I guess you are, I'll show you that you can't hurt. There is apprehension in the picture and I'm not sure what the rest of the year would be for the both of them. It could make an interesting thread, other than a prefect, what was the smallest differential in your age versus the one who administered corporal punishment via experience or witness?


 
 
Ketta

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 29 2011, 11:09 PM 

Cane or Tawse


Looks like were getting the best of both

Sybil TAWSE was the illustrator in the 1933 edition Anne of Green Gables



 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 30 2011, 12:47 PM 

Hi Ketta, good to hear from you. I suspect that the 1933 edition Anne of Green Gables would also have referred to a strap in the classroom scene under discussion here, as indeed does the dialogue on the YouTube video. I'm not sure quite why the implement (supposedly) used in the video appears to be a cane!



Hi American Way. You said above:

Thanks for the picture and change of thread that's most appropriate.

That's very civil of you indeed, so here just for you is the 'after' picture (also showing a cane) to go with the 'before' picture above. happy.gif

Ann of Green Gables. A strapped (or caned?) Jen Pringle retreats to her seat after her punishment
A strapped (or caned?) Jen Pringle retreats to her seat after her punishment.

 
 
American Way

Goofs

January 30 2011, 4:54 PM 

Anne of Green Gables. Goofs. She was a staunch opponent of corporal punishment and felt like a failure. The opposition, reversal and reluctance to paddle is found in the initial accounts shared during the early days of TWP.

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American Way

No Courage to Submit

March 20 2011, 12:50 AM 

Thanks for the picture of Jen Pringle. Albeit fiction she didn't have to be restrained like that BIG BABBY martyr Jessica Serafin who could not muster up the courage to submit. I generally believe in aborting a uncooperative student like not taking medicine. Hundred years ago we didn't have drama queens like we do today. Cane them I say but I must conceded to modern sentiments.

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Vince

Chinese Kung Fu Academies

April 20 2011, 1:09 AM 


This may be stretching the definition of this forum's subject matter quite a bit. Nevertheless, these are educational establishments which currently require their students to accept corporal punishment from their masters. Students may be of any age so log as they are healthy, so the theoretical upper limit could be high indeed, although the cases below all refer to students in their 20s (the older students just didn't seem to do anything to warrant a caning).

http://saschamatic.blogspot.com/2010/06/week-26-28-june-30-june.html

This is the source of the vid which currently adorns Colin Farrel's site. The writer (who is approx 20, judging by his appearance) spent 2010 at a Chinese Martial Arts Academy. Goon is Chinese for stick, and in this context gooning means a caning and goon means a stroke. If you type either of these terms into the search engine on the blog it will bring up all the entries where students are caned. The students in question are all young male adults, although females are present In all the writer witnesses about 10 canings (not all filmed, inc his own) during his year there (apart from Crazy Rahul, who seemed to have a screw loose, and was caned much more frequently).

I find the writer's reaction interesting. He describes the day as "exciting", which would normally be considered a good thing, but clearly he has mixed feelings about the experience. Reading between the lines, I would guess he found being publicly caned shocking (he wasn't expecting it), invasive and humiliating, if not particularly painful ("my first public humiliation and it wasn't even that bad"), and that this caused a wave of resentment and anger (everything the authorities say or do seems to be "pathetic" in this entry, whereas previously he had been one of the prime movers for greater strictness), which he attempts to rationalise by regressing to a sulky teen - I may have deserved to be punished, but not for the precise reason they gave, so they shouldn't have punished me...

I also find the whole concept fascinating. Fit, young, and not so young, adults actually paying to be kept under a strict disciplinary regime under sanction of corporal punishment. They clearly spent a lot of time bored out of their heads, and I don't think the excitement generated by the rather meagre ration of 10 canings in a year would quite compensate for this (or the fairly hefty price tag), but it's an interesting idea. The writer does attempt to paint it as a positive experience, but I'm not sure he convinced himself, let alone me...

Marketing clearly plays a role as well. It might be reasonably easy to depict spending time learning martial arts at an authentic Shaolin Academy in China as cool to affluent young westerners with time on their hands (gap year students), it would be rather harder to sell presenting their buttocks to their master for a sound thrashing if they misbehave as such (particularly when misbehaviour appears to be something of a grey area), and unsurprisingly I couldn't find anything official about this on any of the sites promoting this activity. Of the other blogs I came across, only two made any reference to corporal punishment, and then only in a very passing way.

A young English bloke refers to the practice at the start of the 3rd paragraph:

http://www.travelblog.org/Asia/China/blog-316665.html

A keen French Martial Artist also comments half-way through the 5th paragraph

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/austrane/1/1281167469/tpod.html


It's therefore perfectly possible many arrive not knowing what they have let themselves in for.

 
 
Sascha

Reply to Vince

April 20 2011, 2:55 PM 

I would just like elaborate on your post as I think you may have drawn to many assumptions by just reading a single post of my blog instead of reading the entire blog itself.

By going to China to a martial arts academy one knows that western ways of discipline will not be adopted and that more physical punishment is common and an accepted practice in China. When arriving at the academy one is given a list of rules which one must abide by, failing to do so will result in punishment, this can range from pushups to canning or expulsion.

Foreign students were gooned/canned however this was more of a procedural issue rather than something done to inflict pain or to humiliate, if you watch the video you will see the three students say thank you to their master after the gooning. And the words "my first public humiliation and it wasn't even that bad" were used more to evoke emotions in the readers, it was in no way humiliating. The word excitement was often used with Rahul because, oh look he is getting gooned AGAIN wonder what he did now and it was exciting to watch because we laughed at his excuses and he too laughed. Also the reference of authority being "pathetic" was due to managements way of managing affairs which had nothing to do with the gooning, like indicated earlier, if you had read more posts on the blog you would will get a clearer picture.

And of course it was a great experience, I met many great people, experiences wonderful places and I have definitely discovered a higher consciousness as well as abilities I never knew I had.

Cannings/goons were rare for foreign students, except rahul who had serious behavioral issues, he received multiple goons, close to 100 on different occasions during his 1 year stay and they were never soft.

Chinese students at the academy from ages of 7 got severe goonings and canes, it was sometimes sad to watch as they would break sticks on the kids but it has been done like that for hundreds of years so I was not willing to intervene to stop them from doing it.

 
 
vince

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

April 20 2011, 11:47 PM 

Thank you for taking the trouble to read my post and correct my misapprehensions. It is all too easy to read someone elses account and to simply make assumptions to supplement the actual coverage. I did, however, read your full Blog (which does not, of course, mean that I am not guilty of making similar misapprehensions about the rest of it). I freely admit that I did not pick up on it being a great experience, and that probably has more to do with me not sharing your love of martial arts, and therefore focusing on the (for me) relatively little to do outside of class. Gooning also seemed to be something of a highlight: you said Dan was lucky to see a gooning on his second day (ok, so it was Rahul, but the way you put it, sounded as if it was the gooning not the fact it was Rahul that was interesting), and you also described it as an exciting day when Thomas was gooned, as well as the day the BB gunners & Harry were done. I also did not pick up on the sociability of the experience, which I suspect may be down to the nature of blogging as a record of events rather than anything else. People appear, they do something, then they disappear, without necessarily leaving behind much trace of their personality. If I was more into martial arts, I might also have picked up more on the development of your abilities. Higher consciousness is always difficult to communicate as what works for one person wont necessarily work for another, which can lead to insuperable barriers to communication. It therefore came as something of a surprise to me when at the end you declared it to have been a positive experience, and I therefore attributed this to the widespread , but seemingly unconscious, tendency to find something positive in anything in which you have invested considerable time, effort and expenditure.

I was genuinely surprised by the disciplinary structure. Long ago, I studied Accountancy, and we were parcelled out to tuition providers. I suppose there were rules, but no one ever found out what they were: we were there to learn so that we could qualify, so we got our heads down & worked at it. I would have presumed anyone prepared to trek halfway round the world to spend all day training in Martial Arts would have been, if anything, more dedicated, and that there would therefore have been even less requirement for such rules. The requirement for room tidiness also seemed strange to me. I suppose there is some case to be made for an ordered room reflecting an ordered mind and an ordered body, but simply demanding the ordered room is not necessarily going to lead to the other two. The Kunyu Shan Academy even suggests students might prefer to stay at a nearby hotel. Presumably neither the Academy nor the hotel management engage in caning the hotel guests, so this aspect would not appear to be that integral to the experience. I would also have expected the whole disciplinary regime, not just the token corporal punishment, to be something of a deal-breaker for the affluent young westerners who seem to provide a significant share of the market. I would have expected people to be at least surprised by it and therefore my sense of cynicism kicked in when there seemed to be no mention of it on what appeared to be the official sites, and only very passing coverage in a couple of the blogs apart from yours. Reactions to corporal punishment, no matter how mildly inflicted, can vary quite wildly, with some people finding it akin to rape, while others find it funny or inconsequential, so it seemed a little unfair to me that this was not more prominently displayed, so that people would know what they were getting themselves into first. From what you say (assuming again) this is fairly well known on the grapevine in the Martial Arts world, but I dont think there was any requirement for people to have had any prior engagement In Martial Arts, so it seemed to me they might wind up forking out quite a bit before discovering the lie of the land.

I am very much less comfortable discussing your caning, as I feel I am sticking my nose into something which is quite properly none of my business. I justified my original comments to myself on the grounds that it was something you had openly recorded in a public place & fair game. By entering into a dialogue with you on it though I feel I am eliciting a response from you to which I have no right, which makes me uncomfortable, but I feel it would be wrong for me not to offer you an explanation for what I said. As you say, you had been critical of management up to that point, but it seemed to me that you had been critical of them for not being strict enough, whereas now you were objecting to them being strict with you, as you knew you were involved, they knew you were involved, and you both knew the other knew you were involved, even if they couldnt prove it. I did not quite follow your comment my first public humiliation and it wasn't even that bad" & obviously attributed a meaning to it which you didnt intend, but seemed to be supported by the wording to me (think only the first guy said thank you to the master, though). I am aware that this is just my interpretation of what you have said, and does not necessarily reflect what you intended. I am also aware this is quite a personal issue, so please accept my apologies if I have offended you.

best

vince

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

April 25 2011, 12:25 AM 

These girls were strapped right up to they were 21.

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American Way

Florence Norma Woodward 17

April 29 2011, 1:02 AM 

I wonder if she were a petite girl with an appearance deficit the story would have gathered any attention? happy.gif

Philadelphia Record - Mar 3, 1890

Pedagogue A. M. Sullivan was on trial here yesterday on a charge of flogging one of his biggest girl pupils Florence Norma Woodward 17 years old and pretty

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

July 10 2011, 5:03 PM 

Ten rule for college students (21 years old) to obey or suffer corporal punishment at the hands of a policeman or policewoman. This is a follow up on a story about college spanking at Northwestern University, well covered by the excellent resource and deservedly renown Colin Farrell. It is one of the most prestigious university in the country. I assume that spanking met being passively (too big for forcefully) taken over the knee and spanked. Twenty five with a paddle would be awfully severe and gender would not be as much a concern than it has recently become in some high schools. It has not been lifted from Corpun. I discovered it by my own research through the New York Times so there should be no need to revisit issues.

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re oldest spanked

July 10 2011, 10:52 PM 

I can put my hand on heart and declare that in all my university days, never did I wear sloppy galoshes or ride on an automobile running board. Great find.

 
 
prof.n

possible candidate or folk law?

July 11 2011, 2:55 AM 



The oldest paddled (in High School) may well be an undercover police officer in Mansfield Tarrant County Fort Worth Texas who was reportedly paddled twice at 25 . He was undercover and known only to the principal . The Assistant Principal ( H.R. Wurzbach) paddled him twice during the assignment , whilst he was ingratiating himself with a group of drug dealers in the school. He disliked the first paddling so much , it is said he tried to get word to the VP to avoid the second dose, but , as often happens in bureaucracies the 'pardon' came too late !!!!

I believe it happened in the late 1980's and can be found in the backcopies of the Austin American Statesman. unfortunately on line search seems to draw a blank that far back .

It has been quoted frequently on other sites and has folk law status in East Texas school culture.I saw a reference recently on another site, and wondered if it had been posted here?

 
 
American Way

Oldie but Goodie

July 11 2011, 3:20 AM 

prof n I mentioned that story before and is well documented in corpun.


 
 
KK

The police should follow the rules

July 11 2011, 3:44 AM 


 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 12 2011, 6:55 PM 

Since the six girls average age was 18 in all likelihood one or more could be older than that. They were nubile in 1907 and certainly old enough to have exclusive use three nights a week to the front parlor. happy.gif

There is some doubt about the modus operandi but likely over his knee but no doubt knee, but no doubt about the instrument of correction. He blistered his hands. I give more credence to the earliest story with the $300 pay raise making more sense.

That's $50 a spanking. Well worth the blisters. Not bad work if you can get it. wink.gif Some would say of the Deep South today what 100 years ago they said of Iowa.

Los Angeles Times June 16, 1907

Because he had the courage to spank six girls averaging 18 years of age, Prof. D.L. Correll, head of the public schools here, has been reemployed with an increase of salary from $1500 to $1800 a year.
A half dozen girls threatened to demoralize the school by misbehavior and the professors threatened to resign rather than resort to drastic measures. The school board told Correll to subdue the young woman and they would stand by him. Correll accepted the order, and as the first sign of insubordination he blistered his hand by the fervor with which he executed his spanking stunt. He had no more trouble, and yesterday the school board made substantial acknowledgment of his splendid disciplinary work.

New York Times June 17, 1907

SPANKS 18-YEAR-OLD GIRLS.; Iowa Professor Gets $1,800 Increase in Salary for His Courage. Because he had the courage to spank six girls, averaging 18 years of age, Prof. D.L. Correll, head of the public schools here, has been re-employed with an increase of salary of $1,800 a year. A half a dozen girls threatened to demoralize the school by misbehavior, and the professor threatened to resign rather than resort to severe measures. The school board told Professor Correll to subdue the young women and they would stand by him.

Arizona Republic June 24, 1907

Professor D. L. Correll, head of the public schools at Bristow, lowa, has achieved fame and an increase of salary by spanking six unruly girls. There was trouble in the schools, and the six girls who were afterwards the victims of corporal punishment threatened to break up the orderly program of school work by
misbehavior. Some of the teachers preferred to resign rather than resort to extreme measures, but Professor Correll was made of sterner stuff. He laid the matter before the school board which told him to see that the young ladies received all that was coming to them and the board would stand by him.
The professor accepted the responsibility and chastised the offenders so thoroughly that the board voted to raise his salary. It is confidently predicted there will be no more insubordination in the Bristow schools during Prof. Correll's term of office. The incident will arouse the suspicion in the east, however, that Iowa is still in the dark ages, speaking from an educational standpoint.

 
 
American Way

Oops

August 12 2011, 7:16 PM 

I should have mentioned I gave the link from the NYT July 17 2010, 12:40 PM. Not surprisingly the fetish press have elaborated in a prurient fashion on this incident and even printed the photos of four girls and a class picture to pick out the girls. That's not likely considering the shame factor and the date. The professor's action must have had a chilling effect in its plural (schools) that he exercised his authority over. It is left to wonder if the teachers who refused to resort to drastic measures could have brought them in line without corporal punishment. I would imagine they would be frail spinsters. The stereotype of an Iowa girl is that of a farmer's daughter with a strapping physique. Perhaps it was all that corn and the back breaking chores. happy.gif

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 6 2011, 3:08 PM 

Iowa newspaper follow up of Bristow Iowa story. For a local touch the professor is irreverently called the spanker. While 18 year olds may find paddling or caning troublesome I'm sure spanking (blistered hand) here or with the slipper elsewhere would be more so.

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New York Times Story with photos of four students of Bristow Iowa. It is from a fetish site so I'm not sure if photos were attached subsequently or were affixed originally to the NYT story. A group picture of the class was purportedly taken from the local Bristow paper.

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 6 2011, 3:14 PM 

First Link. Strange? Sometimes it doesn't let you in and other times it does. For convenience short story is found on bottom left corner. Believe me that newspaper is boring.

 
 
American Way

Splash heard around the world.

September 6 2011, 9:37 PM 

One of the problems encountered is when teachers have to differentiate between the social and the instructional. This may be more so the closer in age and differences in gender. This was true in 1909 as it is in 2011. This 19 year old girl (Ruth Russell) violated that boundary and paid the price of corporal punishment at the hands of a merciless and court indicted principal (Prof. Clayton Keller). 19 is well beyond the age of compulsory education but her father, Judson, in all likelihood obliged her to go.

Are there any recoded anecdotes out there? Outrage over girls being hit made it to the courtroom, hence the USA news? More often than not the judge backs the teacher.

PRINCIPAL THRASHES NINETEEN YEAR OLD GIRL

Prof. Kellar Resents Pouring of Water on His Chair.

WILKESBARRE, Pa.. March 20. 1909 Prof. Clayton Kellar, principal of the high -school at Laceyville. near here, was arrested today charged with thrashing Miss Ruth Russell, a 15 year old girl pupil. The charge was made by Judson Russell, father of the girl, and Kellar gave bail. It is alleged that Miss Russell, in a spirit of playfulness, poured water on Professor Kellar's chair, and when he sat down there was a splash and discomfortHe thrashed, the girl, who is almost as big as he is. until there were black and blue marks upon her body.

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American Way

17 year old girl whipped by male teacher 1869

September 11 2011, 6:55 PM 

If you google pupil whipping a disproportionate (assuming boys were punished more frequently than girls) of girls attracts the interests of the courts and media. At the higher school level a man often taught the class so had the onerous (DD) task of administering CP to girls.
17 year old girl (petulant Louisa Kerr) was whipped (perhaps for modesty sake exempting her buttocks) in 1869 California. That they would take this case to court was surprising. The one dollar fine for Harvey D. Peters was an act of genius: it upheld the law and defended the violator.

FINED FOUR WHIPPING A SCHOOL GIRL.

In the Ulster Court, at Kingston, Mr. Harvey D. Peters, a Port Ewen school teacher, was called to trial for assaulting Louisa Kerr, a pupil in his school. The girl, who by the way is a young woman of 17, had told one of her companions that the teacher dare not whip her. This remark reached the teacher's ear, and be took her to task for the expression. Words passed between pupil and teacher, and the pupil rose, took her books, and left the room, slamming the door, as the pupils testified, until the whole side of the building shook. The teacher went into the hall sod told her to come back and shut the door in a respectful way, and took hold of bar arm to bring her back. A struggle ensued, and the teacher put her coat of the door. The complainant swore that her arm was discolored, and that see was considerably bruised about the shoulders. The County Judge charged that a teacher had only the right to call pupils to account, and administer correction for conduct in the school or about the school grounds. The jury found a verdict of guilty, and the defendant was sentenced to pay a floe of fl. Toe Court, in administering the sentence, said that his conduct was simply an error of judgment, and that the fine was not administered to punish, but to avert the rules of law applicable to such cases,

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KK

The age of students in the early days

September 11 2011, 8:37 PM 

In the early days of compulsory education classes were often very large and of very mixed ages and mixed grades. Those who had not learnt to read and write when young attended classes designed for much younger students. It was impossible to craft individual tuition for individual students.

Classroom management must have been a nightmare and especially so when older students challenged the teacher's authority. It is not surprising "young adults", as they now like to be called, were sometimes "spanked" as overgrown kids.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

September 25 2011, 12:07 AM 

July 10, 2011 follow up. College ten rules or spanking.

Short skirts and rooled stockings.

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According to the Witkower code.

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Justice Max Witkower, the sage of Evanston presiding. Chicago Tribune, August 1924: Northwestern University Excited Over New Mystery.

Who is the fair coed at N.U. who possesses such a blood curdling snore it made a nocturnal male intruder tremble in his boots?

All of the fair misses were laying claim of ownership to the snore yesterday and advocating a regular nightly snoring practice as a safety adjunct to the burglar alarm system.

The whole sneerful story came out yesterday in the court of Justice Max Witkower, where Julian Tallafan, 15 years old was arraigned and charge on a disorderly conduct charge. It appeared from the testimony that one of the coeds entered a bathroom in the dormitory at 10 o'clock Wednesday night and saw a pair of man's shoes protruding from under a curtain. Wondering which of the girls was preparing for a masquerade, she reached down and was about to pick up on eof the shoes when she found it was full of foot. The foot being tickled, moved. Miss Coed screamed and fled.

The matron, her assistants, and a batallian of coeds, clad in dressing gowns and armed with flashlights, umbrellas, and swagger sticks, beat the house from garret to cellar.

The police arrived. It was then that young Tallafan, hiding under some gunnysacks in the basement, sneezed.

"I was only looking for a place to sleep, your honor," he protested in court.

"Well, why didn't you pick out a bedroom instead of a bathroom?" asked the matter of fact judge.

"Well I did start into a bedroom," the defendant explained, "but just thence of the girls started snoring so queerly I got scared and ran. I was looking for a way out when I went into the bathroom.

"Which one of you girls snores so loudly?" asked the court.

All of the coeds laughed but one.

"Was it you?" the court asked.

The young woman blushed.

"Was that the girl who snored?" the court asked the boy.

"Well - well, I - er - that is, it as dark and ----"

The coed fled precipitously before identification could be established.

 
 
American Way

College students to be spanked by mothers

December 15 2011, 5:03 AM 

Judge Louis B. Brodsky 1936. Nightclub famed ruling.

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Judge Brodsky 1937 not so famous story.

A nightclub is no place for children of 19 or 20 even if they are college students, Magistrate Louis B Brodsky told the mothers of two boys remove his diapers and apply an old fashioned spanking. Second story under oddities just right of Crossword Puzzles.

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

January 31 2012, 2:37 AM 

21 year old girl in Iowa. There is something about those girls in Iowa. wink.gif

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http://www.sagepub.com/scarlettstudy/articles/Punke.pdf

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

May 1 2012, 2:26 AM 

In the nineteenth century nubile girls (older student and younger teacher) found themselves almost and on the receiving end of corporal punishment but seemingly not to their disadvantage.

How an English schoolteacher became a marchioness? She believed in an English flogging in a private Parisian school but a spanking she received in revenge of administering corporal punishment led to a lofty position in Parisian society. Third column bottom.

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Not just any spanking but a most comprehensive, unabridged and able bodied spanking that have occurred since Julius Caesar was an infant. Here comes the bride almost over the teacher's knee. Of course the story has a happy ending.

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

June 3 2012, 4:38 AM 

Mrs. Malan canes eleven or twelve African student nurses. August 1961.

Corpun file 19438 (Follow up just Google it).

Toledo Blade. Eleven beaten with sticks

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The matron who had caned the twelve women, allegedly for arriving to classes a few minutes late, had a past history of cruel treatment and contemptuous attitudes towards the African women working in the hospital.

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Eleven African student nurses were caned by a White matron, a Mrs. Malan, on 3 August because these nurses would not answer questions during a lecture. Page 108.

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African nurses and labourers at the hospital decided to boycott food supplied to them on August 5, after the caning of 11 African nurses by a white sister-tutor because they were "not too bright at classes".

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American Way

Mrs. Elizabeth Freeman (Heavens to Betsy).

June 7 2012, 1:51 AM 

Oldest maternal domestic spanking?

Mrs. Betsy Freeman (Heavens to Betsy). Oldest spanking Mom. She lived by the wisdom of Solomon to the end.

SPANKS OCTOGENARIAN SON 1905

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10/18/1906 - Indiana Evening Gazette, Indiana, Pa - Woman is 113 Years Old - Mrs. Elizabeth Freeman, of Madison township, Clarion county, celebrated her 113th birthday on the fourth of this month. She has lived under the administration of every president of the United States from Washington to Roosevelt, and in three centuries, the 18th, 19th, and the 20th.

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Mrs. Elizabeth Freeman, from Madison Township, celebrated her 113th birthday. She had eleven children, twenty grandchildren, fifty-five great-grandchildren, and three great-great-grandchildren.

 
 
American Way

Walk a mile in my shoes today.

July 30 2012, 12:49 AM 

I recently mentioned I found a way of browsing Google newspaper archives. prof n once you asked about finding newspapers. The first link may be of some help. Some computer guru may know how this circumvents Google's efforts to thwart searchers.

Hit these links and then search to your heart's delight.

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In the oldest student thread one can find the story of the 25-year-old Dallas undercover police officer, David Bessels in the receiving end. I would be broke if I pay-per-view so I take snippets proffered and put them through the search with a key word found in the give-away and the next line appears. Soon you can put together a story.

This is a pay site account.

Opponents are hoping to whip corporal punishment

Pay-Per-View -

Chicago Tribune - Feb 12, 1989

"Williams," who was actually a 25-year-old Dallas patrolman named David Bessels, chose the paddling. "I'd lined up a drug deal after school," he said later, " and ...


In this case I found a free site to access the Tribune story. High Beam has a great data base and gives a larger snippet but becomes a pay site. Other venues offer you a limited number of stories. Trove (Australia); Papers Past (New Zealand) and Library of Congress (USA) are a sources I value.

This afternoon I went back to the Dallas officer to see his progress on the department. I then wondered how many free newspapers would have accounts.

Voila. The last link.

I google the words from the article and an X-Rated males site (the last place I would look or want to look) and again voila. I spare the reader of accessing such a site. The writer speculates rather perspicaciously IMHO how a story like this makes news. Here is copy/paste.

The writer noted.

The cop himself told his superiors about it; the officer who gave the press conference announcing the arrests at the end of the operation told the reporters; at least one reporter found cop spanking a funny story; someone enjoyed the story enough to put it out on the AP line; innumerable editorial boards were sufficiently amused at the undercover cop's expense  to report his paddling to the general public.  (And not embarrassed by the story--most liberal papers didn't run it--conservative papers are notorious in the news world for missing the racy implications.  This story ran on the front page of the Tampa Tribune.)

Through all of this I came to the last sentences of the Chicago Tribune story and this is why this is why I always see the lighter side.

Opponents contend that corporal punishment breeds more violence, and that was particularly true in the case of Vicki Elmore of Leeds, Ala. She became so incensed after her 7-year-old son was paddled by a female assistant principal that she grabbed the same paddle and smacked the assistant principal in the head with it. Elmore was convicted of assault and last year served 60 days in the St. Clair County Jail.

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This is of course a follow up of a 2005 posting on this estimable Forum found here well before my joining our Happy Family.




 
 
American Way

Almost Paddled

July 30 2012, 12:48 PM 

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Pampa High School even police officers who break the rules have a choice the paddle or hall Lt Charles Morris and detective Howell went to the school and set up a projector for a film to be shown to the government classes. A short while later Joni Covalt ran up to the school principal.

Can you believe it A cop is in my parking place If I did that Id be sent to detention she told Principal Paul Payne Thais the school rule Park in a students reserved space and you get your backside warmed or a stint in detention hall When the officers returned to headquarters they found a note from Police Chief directing them to be at the school in uniform at Wednesday to take their punishment Not altogether happily the officers were at the school at 7 They chose an hours detention.

Pampa High School even police officers who break the rules have a choice the paddle or hall Lt Charles Morris and detective Howell went to the school and set up a projector for a film to be shown to the government classes A short while later Joni Covalt ran up to the school principal Can you believe it A cop is in my parking place If I did that Id be sent to detention she told Principal Paul Payne Thais the school rule Park in a students reserved space and you get your backside warmed or a stint in detention hall When the officers returned to headquarters they found a note from Police Chief directing them to be at the school in uniform at Wednesday to take their punishment Not altogether happily the officers were at the school at 7 They chose an hours detention

How do you like Florida weather? Ask Joni Covalt ten years younger?

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How do you like Florida weather? Ask Joni Covalt ten years younger. She was the one who almost warmed the policemen backsides.

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American Way

Her Pleading Face

August 5 2012, 1:52 AM 

First Column and Second Story.

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Center Top.

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This was mentioned in a story found here.

http://newspaperarchive.com/journal-advance/1901-11-07/page-4/

Thinking to unwelcome task he gave her the choice between whipping and suspension from school and she chose the whipping..The courtship commenced and the punishment ended.


 
 
American Way

Professor Ernest Albert Link born 1882 spanked 1903 RIP 1965

August 7 2012, 12:58 PM 

I had to go back awhile to determine the age of Professor Ernest Albert Link, 21. I wonder if Professor Wood would have won the case if it were an Ernestina? It would bring new meaning to having an appointment with Mr. Wood. prof n Wood College is out of business in case prof was considering a job opportunity.

Haven't these merry girls anything better to do. sad.gif

Merry girls from the college thought it just too funny for anything when professor link told how he was spanked like an ordinary school boy.

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Professor Ernest Albert Link. Born 1882 spanked 1903 RIP 1965.

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American Way

Re: Oldest spanked or given detention

October 3 2012, 8:27 PM 

18 year olds or those whose birthdays that fall before about June graduations are spanked in high school. Those who turn 18 up to January 1st are 17 in college. When compulsory education students can walk rather than submit to the paddle in high school. prof n I agree seniors in high schools should be off limits in the USA and in public schools in Melbourne however apocryphal. What a canard that chicken caning.

College spanking poor grades. Note the age is 17.

Non-Fiction or at least credible enough to pass Ann Landers test.

1982

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Art Work. National Lampoon, September 1975 - back to College: Naughty Professor or Naughty Student?

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Photo shoot of video House Bunny film.

http://youtu.be/fIc1xqRpGl0

Images.

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hcj

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 3 2012, 9:19 PM 

"What a canard that chicken caning."

I understand what you mean, American Way, but from a European perspective it is also a very amusing play on words. On another day of grim news, it is nice to have something that makes me laugh happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

October 3 2012, 10:21 PM 

Hi American Way,

With reference to your second and third links above, I don't care what the unfortunate young lady's done, I still say that's a dreadful thing to do to a slide rule! happy.gif

 
 

Cane in lower sixth

October 26 2012, 9:47 AM 

I had six of the best in lower sixth form for bunking off one afternoon. Was given the option to leave school that day but told if I wanted to continue I would have to accept the standard school punishment for truancy which was six on the bum. It hurt a lot, and I never needed to make the choice again. Well, not until i was older.......

RobCane

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

March 24 2013, 2:36 AM 

Follow up of my post. Re: oldest spanked or given school detention. May 22 2010 at 2:57 PM

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Zwanzig Mädchen und die Pauker. The spanking scenes at 4:30 and following. The film is wholesome and does not have a fetish angle. Trixi, played by Mascha Gonska, is really a mischievous an endearing practical joker. If it were not for the "narrowing" of the screen it would be a thoroughly enjoyable evening.

My knowledge of German is from passing a written foreign language exam required for science degree so my language skills are challenged. The slapstick nature of the film plus my memory of the girls of that era more than compensated for that.

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Klassenkeile victim was Uschi Glas.

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Zwanzig Mädchen und die Pauker victim was Mascha Gonska

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Mascha Gonska was 18 at the time of the filming so she fit the part of a high school . Uschi Glas had to go back as an adult for she was 25.


 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

June 30 2013, 12:34 AM 

A twist on the familiar story of the Naughty Ladies of Bristow Iowa spanking. Penultimate article in the second column. Not for importation? Spanking-18-year old girls or his trusty size 18 slipper.

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American Way

How old is too old to spank?

June 30 2013, 11:24 PM 

Many students know that if the parents know they were paddled at school they have some form of corporal punishment waiting for them at home. One of the arguments against corporal punishment in school is that fewer and fewer families employ corporal punishment at home at the age of 16. This is an interesting example for the girl is receiving a paddling in numbers that correspond to her behavior. Greenville MS has a strong black component and both schools from grades 9 to 12 employ corporal punishment via the paddle.

How old is too old to spank? The use of corporal punishment in school by the paddle seems to be carried over to the home.

http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Page?t=d&eid=30570&syk=5&pid=568

http://www.creators.com/advice/tween-12-and-20/i-m-too-old-to-be-spanked.html

DR. WALLACE: I'm a 16-year-old girl and still get spankings when my father feels that I should be punished. I am asked to bend over. And then he paddles my rear end with a wooden paddle one swat for a minor infraction (forgetting to do my chores on time) to five swats for talking back to my mother. First of all, I'm not crying "child abuse." The swats hurt (actually, they sting), but I am not left with tell-tale black and blue marks. I just feel that I'm too old for this ridiculous form of punishment. I told my dad that I was going to write to you for your opinion, and he said he would take your opinion under consideration if it was different than his. Nameless, Greenville, Miss.


 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

August 31 2013, 2:40 AM 

53-year-old woman Malaysian principal cane a 28-year-teacher dressed in loose fitting clothes on her buttocks back in 2007. I did a cursory check on the disposition of the investigation but found nothing online.

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Paula Flowe often asks name one college that teaches how to administer corporal punishment. Maybe a state school surrounded by counties where paddling is permitted would at least talk about it. It's not rocket science but acting as a witness in a routine school paddling might be considered a pre-requisite.

Barring the instructional video referred to by my most eminent prof n fellow poster all we have is whole Lotta . That being said TWP have their own unique tempo that A_L brought to our attention from their blog. Left to their own druthers so may hit too hard or not hard enough. This issue has been addressed about the UK tradition of caning here but never paddling.

Can you imagine if a case of mistaken identity occurred with male principal paddling a female teacher?

Worse still an instructional as in this back to school re-post. wink.gif

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davenhall

23 year old grad student paddled

September 22 2013, 10:23 PM 

http://chross.blogt.ch/forum/read.php?8,13327,13344#msg-13344
I don't know whether this is true or not but its interesting.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: 23 year old grad student paddled

September 23 2013, 8:49 AM 

Hello davenhall,

Amusing, but as it is in a section called 'Stories' and is described by the contributor as 'A restart' of another item in the same 'stories' folder which concerns a college girl who gets herself paddled in a High School as part of her college thesis on corporal punishment in schools, I think we may take it that it is fiction.

It contains an interesting variation I have never seen mentioned in real cases of paddling in US schools, namely the girls being required to change into PE kit to be paddled. I think that this sometimes happened in the UK with canings, but why would it happen in the US?

There's a world of difference between canes and paddles. The effects of a paddling certainly aren't going to be significantly diminished by the conformation of some skirts and dresses in the way that a caning might be. The paddle is too heavy for that, and the impact zone is so much larger. And in any event jeans seem to be pretty much standard school wear for girls in US High Schools.

 
 
American Way

MADE PUPIL SPANK HER. 1916

October 13 2013, 3:18 AM 

MADE PUPIL SPANK HER.

Third column from right and second story.

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Another_Lurker

Re: MADE PUPIL SPANK HER. 1916

October 13 2013, 3:58 AM 

Hello American Way,

"Well I'll go to Sutton!", as the older inhabitants of my native town were once wont to say when astonished by something. As you might guess Sutton was, and indeed still is, somewhere nobody sensible would ever go under normal circumstances.

I suppose there is a certain logic to it though. If you want to impress on the erring child you're punishing corporeally that it really does hurt you more than it hurts them, make them administer the same punishment to you.

I really can't see it catching on generally though. I wonder if TWP might be interested? happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 
American Way

Coming out of retirement

November 4 2013, 8:00 AM 

Part 1 Night with Oscar Video. Alabama class reunion with their principal giving his last licks. Be sure you read the comments under the three paddling images found on the bottom of the page in the last link. I graduated in 1968 but the obesity epidemic is worst in the southern states. happy.gif Even without his glasses it wouldn't be hard to miss those targets. ") Too much southern cooking if you asked me.

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American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

November 6 2013, 4:28 AM 

23-year-old college girls spanked at Virginia Commonwealth University by a tenured Professor almost twice her age. Dr Michael L Fine spanked a Libyan native student, Amna Kadiki among possibly others, if you scroll down this link. I guess that's what they call academic freedom.

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Their parents may have longer memories than the administration. They're shelling out $12,000 a year while the university settled for $10,500 in 1995.

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Professor Michael L Fine was sentenced to 12 months in jail, with 11 months and 29 days suspended. He spent one day in the City Jail.

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Still teaching to this week 10/30/13. Some people always wind up landing on their feet. Don't they? Two years ago.

N.B. 11/10/11. Do the extra credit if he offers it. Nice guy and funny in an awkward dad kind of way.

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Today this biology teacher would be singing soprano in Kiev if he crossed the line with Femen honorees of the Courage to Submit. They wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

November 6 2013, 8:28 PM 

Hello American Way,

Oh dear, what a naughty Professor! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif But some blame must attach to the young lady I fear. I don't believe for a minute that a 23 year old wasn't aware that in 1992 in the USA male University Professors didn't normally put female students over their knee and spank them, and that if they did it was consensual. Clearly the courts recognised this fact, in that his actual effective sentence was one day in prison and her claim was knocked down from $850,000 to $10,500.

 
 
American Way

Re: oldest spanked or given school detention

November 7 2013, 12:50 AM 

1992 to 2010. They dodged a bullet. His upping the ante to a hairbrush made it seem even more unseemly and could tip the balance of blame. sad.gif Had he threatened her with a slide rule her grades would have definitely improved. happy.gif

The estimable Forum is not unfamiliar with this entry although the first image is new and shows a professor can be put in harm's way. wink.gif She tips the balance the other way in this dramatization with those eyes.

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Dean Clarke

Re: oldest punished or given school detention

February 4 2014, 8:17 AM 

I was surprised to be directed to this video today in an article on the humour website Cracked.com

5 Amazing Performances by Actors Who Weren't Acting (Part 3).

It concerns the caning scene from Kes.

But that wasn't the worst abuse that Loach subjected his child actors to: In another scene, featuring children being caned by a teacher, the director insisted that the actor actually hit the kids with a cane so their expressions would be genuine.

Of course, this was the 1960s, when men were men, women were objects, and children were an inconvenience. We're pretty sure they have laws against this kind of thing now.

Or do they?


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: oldest punished or given school detention

February 9 2014, 5:28 AM 

Hello Dean Clarke,

A most interesting find, thank you. I've no idea how I came to miss your above post, but fortunately it has emerged in the course of my looking for something else.

If any readers are unfamiliar with the Kes caning scene there is some discussion of it earlier in this thread and in various other threads here.

 
 
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