I was at school during WW2 and spent a lot of my time, both at home and at school, down the air-raid shelters. It was pretty scary at times but my biggest dread was to get the cane! It's hard for me to understand that now but it is a fact. Although I was eleven before I actually received a caning, I feared it from an early age. My brother (7 years my senior)and his friends used to tell me tales, probably quite untrue stories, of how the master took a run up the classroom before delivering the whack, and that certainly contributed to my dread of it. The first time I stood in the Heads study (First Form, Grammar), sent for playing truant the day before, and saw him go to a cabinet and select a cane, my heart sank! The dreaded time had arrived! The Headmaster was a very kindly old gentleman and had in fact only recently taken over as acting headmaster so I suppose he wasn't the typical Head. He actually had me bend over across his knee and used a short stick which I hardly felt. After each stroke he asked me if it had hurt, and being naive I said no. The fifth one stung and I told him so but he only gave me one more, just as stingy but that was the end of my first caning. I sulked around the playing field all lunch time, swearing to kill this old man who had humiliated me by treating me like a kid, not realising how easy he had been on me. The second time however, a year or so later, it was a totally different experience! I got four strokes touching my toes and it was like a knife going through me! I knew then that the cane was everything I had always dreaded and it was a good two years before I earned another dose. I still get a little tingle when I hear the word 'cane'!

One cannot help but wonder why an 11-year-old boy who dreads the cane would be so reckless as to play truant.

I haven't often wondered that myself Lotta! I can only put it down to stupidity. Whatever the reason, I can tell you it's the truth, oh sceptical one.

I received the cane twice during my school days once in 6th grade and once in 2nd form.
My first visit to the head's office for the cane occurred in 1978 at Boronia Park Public School in Sydney. I was with a friend and we were reading during lunch when two boys decided to throw a ball at me which struck me on my back. Being into sports, mostly hockey, I had no qualms about throwing it back unfortunately the librarian, I don't remember her name, caught me and gave me and the boy who had thrown it at me notes to take to the headmistress Mrs Joss.
The library sat on top of the administration block so it was a short nerve wracking walk to the offices. The boy, Mark, and I presented ourselves to the office supervisor who told us to sit on the chairs outside Mrs Joss' office while she took the notes to the headmistress. I only knew of two girls who had been caned, but primarily it was the boys who visited Mrs Joss, girls receiving the cane was a rare occurrence so I did not suspect that I would be receiving it.
It was a nervous wait for Mrs Joss but Mark seemed nervous but not as nervous as I was. Mrs Joss came out of her office and ordered the two of us inside. She had her cane sitting on her desk, it was a straight cane. She scolded us for misbehaving in the library and nearly causing an injury along the lines of potential blindness and then informed us that we would be receving the cane. I don't think it was Mark's first experience with the cane but it certainly was for me and I began to plead with her not to cane me. Mrs Joss sent me from the office and I had to wait outside with my hands on my head and nose to the wall.
The administration office was brick so I couldn't hear what Mrs Joss was saying to Mark, but I did hear the faint swishing of the cane and the cracking sound. Mark received the full six strokes and he emerged with a red face clutching his bottom and rubbing, but he wasn't crying.
Mrs Joss came to the doorway holding her cane and called me in next. I went in reluctantly and she closed the door behind me. Mrs Joss informed me that I would be receiving four strokes of the cane and she ordered me to bend over and touch my toes. The girls uniform was a short sleeved grey, blue and white checked dress with white knee socks and black leather shoes, aka Bata Bullets, mine had buckles with a tiger paw print on the sole and we wore the navy-blue school knickers (we called them bloomers, or scungees if you were from Queensland). The boys uniform in the warmer spring and summer was grey shorts, with a blue collared shirt and with grey knee socks and black leather shoes.
While I was bending over two feet from her desk she lifted my school uniform up and held the skirt up of my dress up with her left hand. She lined the cane against my bottom and I remember tensing up.
The first stroke landed, initially I didn't feel the sting but then a line of stinging pain grew as the second stroke landed, I howled and covered my bottom with my hands and I tears rolled down my face. Mrs Joss told me to move my hands, when I didn't she threatened me with six strokes, so I moved my hands and she whacked me again. I couldn't jump and rub as she had her hand on my lower back keeping my dress up so I covered my bottom again and she told me to move my hands, I moved them and she whacked me for the fourth time. I don't know if my punishment would have hurt more had I not worn regular knickers under my school bloomers but the pain was unlike anything I had experienced before and I don't think Mrs Joss whacked me as hard as she had whacked Mark.
After the fourth stroke she gave me a moment or two to compose myself and she told me to stand up. I lowered my dress and stood 'at ease' as she went to the door and called Mark back in.
She told us if we misbehaved in the library again we would receive six strokes of the cane and have letters sent home to our parents. She wrote out notes to give to our teachers explaining why we were late to class after lunch and sent us on our way.
My sixth grade teacher Mrs Kamer scolded me when I returned to class and I handed her the note from Mrs Joss she read it told me to sit at my desk. She had a boy-girl seating arrangment in class to curb misbehaviour and when I winced as I sat down my desk mate Andrew knew I had been caned. My classmates knew after lessons that I had been caned so I did gain a degree of notoriety amongst the boys at Boronia Park but it didn't last long as three days later two boys in my class were caned for misbehaving during assembly.
That was my first of two experiences with the cane, some of you will not believe me but make of my experience what you will. Thankyou.

“Some of you will not believe me” writes Jodie.

Those who have read ‘Simple!’ on this page certainly won’t.

I have not read Simple! so I believe. Please to tell about second caning. Yes please.

Jodie's story is obviously a fantasy and Jodie is obviously a male pretending to be female.

Shock! Horror! But I think I must agree with you here, Lotta, I think describing both the boys and the girls school uniforms in such detail gives it away. Also I never heard of any girls being caned on the bottom in my day here in the UK and I doubt if it happened over 25 years later in Oz.

I personally don't care whether Lotta believes me or not, and it his/her total arrogance that assumes that people who post their experiences really care what he/she thinks.
The fact is Lotta you have no evidence whatsoever to debunk the postings that have been placed here. Come on you expert on all matters. PROVE ME WRONG!
Some of the posts I have read have been accused of being false so I added the detail; such as my school, the name of Boronia Park's headmistress and my school uniform; as postings that have not had these things have been accused of being false. The fact is that my posting is very true and that is that.

My second caning occurred in 2nd form when my friend Sarah and I were caught truanting (aka. wagging)PE by the school captain at Cambridge Park High School in Sydney's western suburbs. The school Headmaster, Mr Astle sent us to the mistress for girls, Mrs Childs, with notes saying that Sarah and I were to receive six strokes.
We had to wait outside her office and presented the notes to the office staff who took them to Mrs Childs. She came out immediately and took us into her office.
Mrs Childs lectured us about wagging and informed us that we would be caned. She left her office and borrowed the deputy headmaster's cane, his name was Mr Petherbridge.
Mrs Childs told me to hold out my left hand, which I did, and she gave me three strokes on my fingertips, after the first stroke I put my hand under my armpit as I had seen the boys do that and she told me to hold out my hand and she gave me the second and third strokes. Next was my right hand and she gave me another three strokes. During Sarah's caning I kept my hands behind my back and was rubbing them. Mrs Childs gave her three on each hand as well. We were threatened with the cane and a week of after school detention if we wagged again and then we were sent back to PE class with notes from Mrs Childs to the girls PE mistress, Miss Donnellan, explaining what had happened.

We can deduce from this that cp was administered to both sexes in Australian or at least NSW secondary schools? I remember seeing the feature fim "Puberty Blues" some years ago in which boys at a NSW secondary school were given a hand caning but the girls weren't. I know that in NZ girls were specifically exempted from cp in state owned secondary schools, but not in private secondary schools and some girls certainly received it.

In Victoria CP was for boys only --
http://www.corpun.com/ausc5906.htm -- but in NSW there appears not to have been any such rule.

A certain amount of anecdotal evidence about NSW suggests that cane on hands was the norm for both sexes in govt schools. This seems to have had the odd effect of producing whole generations of Sydney males (Clive James etc. etc.) who imagine that caning throughout the world is something generally applied to the hands only. As a result, when they discuss the issue with people from, for instance, the UK -- or even from other parts of Australia -- they start suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Your account certainly seems true to me. Thanks for telling us of your experience.
As a mere male, I am interested to know if you thought caning of the hands was for any reason better or worse than on the bottom. Would you have prefered to have had your bottom caned?
As far as I know where corporal punishment was used on girls in schools, it was usually applied to the hands. I was never caned at school (either hands or bottom), but the very thought of getting the cane on my hands fills me with dread, but not on the bottom, although I would not have LIKED that either. But I am sure that I would have accepted my bottom being caned more than my hands. I think what I am saying is that a hand being caned could cause permanent damage (and I think there have been cases of that!) but one's bottom being caned is not likely to cause any damage that is permanent, well not physically anyway.
I often wonder what it would have been like to have been caned at school.
Chris

I believe that the caning on my hand hurt more than the caning on my bottom.
As a sidebar there is legislating preventing almost anything on the planet involving human relationships. Just because something is prevented by a piece of writing does not mean that it will not happen. Drink driving is illegal but people still drink and drive.
When it comes to school corporal punishment the same applies. Someone may have actually been spanked over a knee or had their thighs slapped in front of a class. The perpetrators still committed these acts despite rules to the contrary.
Ultimately I was caned on my bottom in sixth grade and on my hands in second form.

Words: 933
(NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.)

Female Score: 1880
Male Score: 977

The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: female!

In this case I am not sure although GG is virtually certain!

And for the irritated response: 'I personally don't care whether Lotta believes me or not.......... etc'

Words: 119
(NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.)

Female Score: 101
Male Score: 190

The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: male!

No surprises there then.

Provided that the author is the same, also shows that state of mind and adopted style affects the result. As does the historical style of language. Remind me not to compare the stilted, convoluted and somewhat formal language of 19th Century female novelists with contemporary text such as found in the letters pages of current womens magazines when doing gender analyses.

Been a while since I was around here.

In Australia, the rules on corporal punishment in state schools differed from state to state.

In New South Wales, the Australian Capital Territory, and Western Australia, corporal punishment could not be legally used on girls over the age of 12 in state schools.

In Victoria, corporal punishment could not legally be used on any girl in a state school.

In Queensland, corporal punishment could not be used on any girl over the age of seven in state schools.

Tasmania allowed girls to receive corporal punishment only in extreme cases of open defiance of a teacher's authority - and required all such incidents to be immediately reported to the Director General of Education.

South Australia and the Northern Territory had no special restrictions on the corporal punishment of girls.

These rules were not always followed perfectly - but they wouldn't have been broken that often.

In private schools, there were no legal restrictions on corporal punishment that applied especially to girls - but in practice, girls schools were less likely to use corporal punishment and where it was used, it was generally used far less often than in most boys schools.

Corporal punishment is banned in all state schools in Australia, but remains legal in private schools in Western Australia, Queensland, and Victoria. Victoria is currently reviewing all its education laws and it is likely that they will ban corporal punishment as part of that review.

Laws and regulations usually reflect the attitudes of society. In the days when woman were considered to be delicate child bearers in need of protection from coarseness and roughness many considered corporal punishment of teenage girls quite inappropriate. Regulations governing schools therefore often reflected this view. This was certainly the case in my youth. We all thought it entirely right and proper than boys were caned and girls were not. Anyway, girls just did not do the things that got boys caned. It may have been different in other societies but I have no knowledge of any. Attitudes have changed greatly since.

>Corporal punishment is banned in all state schools in Australia, but
>remains legal in private schools in Western Australia, Queensland, and
>Victoria. Victoria is currently reviewing all its education laws and it is
>likely that they will ban corporal punishment as part of that review.

Why do you feel that they will ban CP at the independent schools in Victoria? Seems that there are still a good number of proponents and fairly prominent, influential ones at that at these schools. With the exception of perhaps one or two school, independent schools have curbed the use of CP dramatically over the last several years. Despite that, I believe that there is a great desire to have the cane as a disciplinary option even if it is used very infrequently or not at all. Why would the state force the issue and engage in this sort of battle when they have lived quietly with CP at independent schools for a number of years.

Basically I think it's likely corporal punishment will be banned in Victorian schools simply because we have a Labor state government in Victoria (traditionally opposed to corporal punishment) heavily influenced by the Teachers' Unions (also traditionally opposed to corporal punishment) that has said it is planning massive reform of Victoria's Education laws. If they are going to make major changes to the Education Act, I'll be pretty surprised if they didn't slip a prohibition on corporal punishment into the Act.

There's no real pressure for change - but there's no real pressure for retention either. The state government wouldn't bother specifically passing a law just to ban corporal punishment, but as they are going to revise the entire Act anyway, I would expect them to change this.

Yes, there are private schools that would oppose the abolition of corporal punishment, but the state governments majority is so large that really doesn't matter much - and Labor governments historically don't care about private school objections to their plans anyway. A lot of Labor members would love to render private schools indistinghishable from state schools.

I could be wrong - the state government might decide not to address what is really a non issue - I have heard that the attitude of some government members is that if parents aren't complaining, why interfere? Hopefully we will know today - they are supposed to be releasing a White Paper outlining their proposed changes today, after a year long review process, which definitely considered corporal punishment.

And it looks like I was right - todays Age carries a story saying that corporal punishment will probably be banned in all Victorian schools as an indirect result of the government's planned new legislation.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/strap-to-be-banned-in-all-victorian-schools/2005/09/15/1126750078252.html

There's no real pressure for change - but there's no real pressure for retention either. The state government wouldn't bother specifically passing a law just to ban corporal punishment, but as they are going to revise the entire Act anyway, I would expect them to change this.

Yes, there are private schools that would oppose the abolition of corporal punishment, but the state governments majority is so large that really doesn't matter much - (Dean)
----------------------------------------------------------------

I was under the impression that there was a great deal of desire to retain the option of the cane in independent schools in Victoria. I was also under the impression that these schools included The Six and the other 5 affiliated schools. I also thought that these schools had great prestige and great influence on the educational system in Victoria and that Old Boys from these schools numbered greatly among the lawmakers there. No?

There are some schools that would like to retain corporal punishment - and the Chief Executive of the Association of Independent Schools of Victoria said on Thursday that they believe individual schools and communities should be allowed to decide on their disciplinary policies and whether or not they use corporal punishment. So I suppose it's possible they may decide to fight any moves that do occur to ban corporal punishment.

And if independent schools do decide to fight, they do have a lot of their ex-pupils sitting in the State Parliament on both sides of the House. They might well be able to mobilise some of those people to protect the interests of their old schools. The eleven APS schools, and the similar girls schools, do have a disproportionate amount of political power but I'm not really sure how good they are at using it to deal with a single issue - and I would really question whether or not they'd want to expend political capital on such an issue. It's not like the government is trying to ban rowing or anything really important.

If they do try and fight it, I'd expect them to do so quietly and behind the scenes. I don't think this would be something they'd fight a public battle over.

Thanks for your reply, Dean.

>They might well be able to mobilise some of those people to protect the
>interests of their old schools. The eleven APS schools, and the similar
>girls schools, do have a disproportionate amount of political power but
>I'm not really sure how good they are at using it to deal with a single
>issue - and I would really question whether or not they'd want to expend
>political capital on such an issue. It's not like the government is
>trying to ban rowing or anything really important.


Based on some private information I have received from a few sources, I actually do think you underestimate the desire of these schools to maintain the option of using CP and the cane in particular. One person close to the situation has told me that while the cane is used infrequently there is a strong desire to maintain it as an available option and that having such an option is an important issue. Another person, also close to the situation, is a very strong proponent of CP and his school is probably the most frequent user. I suspect that both these individuals represent the opposite ends of the spectrum of opinion at indenpendent schools and both, while they may not agree on frequency of use, strongly want the option preserved.

>If they do try and fight it, I'd expect them to do so quietly and behind
>the scenes. I don't think this would be something they'd fight a public
>battle over.

Which, from what I understand, is exactly what was done the last time CP became an issue. I have read and heard from a number of sources that there is a tacit, quiet agreement that has existed since CP was banned in government schools that independent schools could maintain the use of CP but needed to be discreet and very quiet about it. Seems sort of hypocritical to me. If you are in support of school CP then you should be willing to say it loudly and support your position.

I have read that there are all sorts of canes that are used to chastise.

What exactly was the dimensions of a typical school cane and how did a junior cane differ from a senior cane? I would assume that these would also differ from a prison cane or even the kind of cane they use judicially in places like Singapore. How much difference in bite is there from one cane to another and is the cane itself as much a variable in the production of pain as other things like force, place where the cane strikes, position of the boy, bare or not bare, etc.

Inquiring Yanks want to know. <G>

The cane that was used at my school was about three feet long, very thin (about a third of an inch), extremely flexible and had the typical crook handle. I suppose it was a rattan, although I didn't know the term then. I think the flexibility is what gave it such a capacity for inflicting pain if it was used skilfully. It worked rather like a whip. We were made to bend over the back of a chair, the last six inches or so of the cane were placed across the seat of our trousers, the cane was raised in the air and brought down with a swish and a crack. If you got six strokes (the maximum) the pain was excruciating. The stripes stayed sore for at least 24 hours and were visible for up to 10 days. It was no fun at all.