I think corporal punishment should be re-introduced as an 'ultimate deterrent' in schools, between the second warning or suspension and complete exclusion from the school.
It should be 'Six of the Best' administered before a parent, a police officer and a social worker.
Many kids who now think it fun to completely disrupt the lives of the rest of the students and teachers, would possibly think twice.
If it worked, that child would have a better chance in life than those who now lose a good proportion of their education by being moved from one school to another, taking their reputation with them.
If the child thought so little of the caning that he/she carried on and was then excluded, what harm would have been done?
I think the same should be available for Juvernile Courts before the first custodial sentence, but that is irrelevent to this forum.
It should be a once only sanction, as it wouldn't be of use to those kids who thought little of it.

The way I remember it, the more they beat me, the more I rebelled. That is what's wrong with these sweeping generalizations. You can't measure everyone with the same yardstick.
Most kids who act out at school, do so because they have problems at home and are too young to know how to deal with them. Children (even teens) are helpless to do anything about problems at home. They don't have the luxury of moving out.
So in your world, we just give them a beating and hope that solves all their problems. Brilliant solution!

Danny, could you be more simplistic in trying to solve a serious problem. Beat em with a stick and all will be well and if it isn't, oh well. Give me a break.

The problem with exclusion or 'being expelled' is that it's no deterrent to children who don't want to be at school in the first place. In fact, not only is it no deterrent, the prospect is hugely attractive to many children.

Have we ever heard of a prisoner causing mayhem in a jail and, as a punishment, being thrown out through the prison gates and told never to return. I certainly haven't.

I know it wouldn't work with all young rebels but the prospect of it now, in this day and age of most kids never having even be smacked, would be a deterrent - just as the prospect of going to jail deters most of us from robbing the local bank - because that doesn't deter everyone from doing so is no argument for abolishing all jails.
Bob T. says he was often beaten and still rebelled, so it obviously wasn't too terrible and he would be one of those where it wouldn't work. I did say it should be a one off thing and after that the boy would be excluded, as now happens, with all the loss of education that entails.
Andrew W. misquotes me 'beat em with a stick and all will be well'! The thought of getting that one whacking would put 90% off and so never get to that stage. The other 10% would go through all the negative follow-up procedures that now happens, except that he would have had at least one salutary lesson before being sent off to his taxpayer-paid skiing holiday (to cause havoc on the Alpian 'piss)'.
Only a simple talking point to try to get this forum back on some sort of even track and discuss something relevent, folks!

The problem with SCP is that it fails to address the cause of repeated misbehavior. Parents and teachers bear some responsibility for this. Show me a child who continually acts out and I'll bet that he/she has parents who are too busy or uninterested in their childrens life to keep them focused on school. Teachers should recognize the warning signs and try to help before it gets to the point of exclusion.

I agree with everything you say, Bob, but when it comes to the point where exclusion is the next move I think the boy should know that a dose of CP is next on the agenda. It won't stop every one of them but it would stop quite a number. My point is that if that kid can get his head down at that school and not go on the road of changing from one to the next one who'll take him, his chances in life will be that much greater. Surgery is often painful but it's preferable to dying!

I agree with Danny, with one reservation: not as a judicial sanction.

The 'canings' handed out in South East Asia are (I hope everyone agrees) brutal torture and have nothing but the name in common with what Danny is talking about. However, when courts in the UK could order canings for juveniles, before the War, they were administered by burly policemen with a four-foot cane on the bare buttocks. I can't see how this would be much different from the Asian kind.

I appreciated Danny's joke 'in front of a social worker'!

I think corporal punishment should be re-introduced as an 'ultimate deterrent' in schools, between the second warning or suspension and complete exclusion from the school.
-------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, let's reintroduce an archaic bad practice as the A bomb in the arsenal of all the bad practices used in education to "solve" problems. Let's not really do something positive, proactive and useful to change behavior. That would be way too much to ask...and far too difficult. We don't want difficult or positive. We want easy and a quick fix to substantive problems. You think CP is going to solve problems? Then you must believe in the tooth fairy too.

Yes, by all means let's do something positive, proactive and useful. Suggestions? Or is is that believing in the Tooth Fairy?
I am offering a practical suggestion, please do the same if you disagree. If you have a less easy and a far slower 'fix' I will be the first one to applaud.
I, personally, feel the A bomb was, and still is, a great detrrent, by the way.

Yes, by all means let's do something positive, proactive and useful. Suggestions? Or is is that believing in the Tooth Fairy?
I am offering a practical suggestion, please do the same if you disagree. If you have a less easy and a far slower 'fix' I will be the first one to applaud.
I, personally, feel the A bomb was, and still is, a great detrrent, by the way.
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There are many ways to approach people that effectively change behavior without always resorting to negatives and especially to hitting them. There are many proactive programs (commercially developed) as well as the systematic use of behavior modification principles and token economy systems that are used in schools that not only get better behavior through education and practical approaches that exact restitution instead of pain for inappropriate behavior but also provide meaningful incentives for behaving well. To use these, however, it takes a good deal more energy, commitment and real concern for students than it does to hit them, suspend them or expel them. These approaches see complex problems as being complex and problem kids as being complex human beings worthy of dignity and care despite their behavior. I have spent a good deal of my career dealing with those worst behaved of the worst behaved who were sent to my program because all else failed but we didn't want to give up on them. Believe me, the large majority of these kids were no strangers to being spanked, paddled, beaten, etc. All that did was alienate and/or created fear...it did little to correct their behavior or mold their outlook in any positive way.

You solution is "practical"? No, not practical---expedient and in the best interest of the adults not the children. And ultimately, while it may temporarily stop a behavior, doesn't do anything positive in the long run. Maybe you are satisfied with kids who have no real moral sense but behave as you want them to only out of fear of punishment and pain---but I sure don't.

As far as your affinity for the A bomb---the damage created by its use far outweighs any deterrent effect. And guess what even A bombs like capital punishment have not been shown to reduce capital crimes.

Problem in most schools in dealing with difficult kids---the kind that usually got sent to my program---is that the emphasis is always on punishment and on a quick fix.

Your solution sounds great and where it works those kids obviously won't reach the point where they are about to be excluded. Therefore my 'quick fix' as you call it won't be necessary.
As for A bombs not having been shown to reduce capital crimes, it has kept the world free from major conflicts for 60 years! The casualties in the present Iraq War are minimal compared with the First and Second World Wars before the A bomb brought WW2 to an abrupt end.
I was a child living ion London during that era and we had 9/11 casualties twice a week for months! Please do not underestimate the value of a deterrent.

I agree completely with the teacher and principal. My son was having some small behavior problems at school and the exact type of behavior modification techniques he described changed his behavior in a very short time. He now earns "bonus bucks" which he uses to buy things from the school. Just little toys or old books, but it's the concept behind it is what counts. He loves earning bonus bucks and the little trinkets he buys with them. I am confident that by the time he gets to high school, his behavior will be permanently changed. I can't even imagine what cp would have done to him. Or me. I probably would have killed a teacher or principal.

So your boy never reached anywhere near the point where the school decided to exclude him, Bob. Great! But what if all those 'small modifications' hadn't worked and he was being faced with a serious disruption to his education by being excluded from school? This is the only point where I say CP should be the next option, before the final point where he is thrown out as hopeless - a 'Last Chance saloon'!

If your boy had gangrene in his toes and one surgeon said "Cut them off, it'll be very painful but life-saving", while another said "No, give him a lethal injection, it's painfree" - which one would you choose?

All I am saying is that a caning will cause temporary pain; exclusion will cause permanent injury to the child's future. By all means try everything else first. I have never advocated this, so called, 'quick fix' to be anything but a child's future-saving possibility, before the end of the road.

I agree that it probably would not be of much use to the boy who got to the point where he was actually caned, but the prospect of it is hopefully going to deter him from reaching that point.

Danny, obviously there is no point discussing this with you. You clearly have this intense need to hit children as a deterrent even when someone who has worked for an entire career with misbehaving children who have a history of suspension and significant social issues talks about the effectiveness of non-aggressive, proactive, positive approaches. These approaches have, do, and will continue to work if used by people who care enough about kids to think that they deserve to be treated better than you apparently do. I sure hope you have nothing to do with education or children. Perhaps when you are old and being cared for in a nursing home by the generation you suggest hitting, you will discover that when you do something they don't like you will get the same treatment from them that you want educators to give to them.

I'm done.

Just so you understand, Danny, this is the legal result of the kind of approach you sanction. This paddling occured in a public school in the U.S. and the principal was found to be within his legal rights:

[IMG][/IMG]

Now I'm really done.

I respect your opinion and hope you understand where I'm coming from too, sir. That picture looks nasty and I agree that no one would like to see their child hurt in that way. I have had six kids, now all grown-up and with good careers, certainly none of them ever had to suffer a beating anything like that one pictured but they knew there were boundaries and the penalty for over-stepping them.
All that said, if I had ever had one excluded and he was now out of work and homeless, I would have wished he had been given a very sore butt at that age if it could have helped him get back on the right track.
I personally suffered many a whacking at school, a few times with the cane, where the marks do take a goodly time to fade, so I don't really need to be shown the effects. I don't want those days back ever again but I still maintain there needs to be a meaningful deterrent for kids.
Exclusion is far too big a price for a 13/14 year old to have to pay for the rest of his/her life.

Cover Story
"My Favourite Teacher Killed Me"

Shamim Ahsan
and
Kajalie Shehreen Islam

In a small room at 206 Ambagan, Jahanara Begum sits on the floor looking blankly in front of her, crying. In between her cries, she talks about her son. Thirteen-year-old Dipu Islam, son of a rickshaw mechanic, was a student of Nayatola Government Primary School. He was a quiet child and had completed reading the Quran four times and was in the middle of the fifth.

"He loved to watch cartoons," says Dipu's mother, "and I got a cable connection just for him. He would come home from school every day, tie a gamchha around himself, take the remote control in hand and watch television."

But when Dipu came home from school on July 2, he went straight to bed and asked his mother to hand him the remote. When she asked him to shower first, he said no. His mother asked him what was wrong, and, upon examining him, found dark marks all over his back, arms, thighs and behind. "There was a double mark on his buttocks," says Jahanara Begum, "as if someone had scalded him with something." Dipu had been beaten at school.

It wasn't the first time. Dipu was often caned for not being able to answer correctly in class. His mother had promised him that after the upcoming exams he could change schools. That Saturday, Dipu was beaten twice: once for not answering correctly in English class, and again for failing to give his attendance on time. "He was writing something and had become absent-minded," says his mother "and missed the roll call.

When he asked to give it later, the teacher swore at him and then beat him up."

Dipu had high fever that evening, and no medicine worked. The next day, he didn't go to school and threw up his food. On Monday, he had convulsions and, when the fever was still not coming down, he was taken to the hospital. His stomach and legs hurt. He was given saline but the fever had still not come down. He slept.

Dipu was visibly frightened. So much so, that even the doctors, after hearing what had happened at school, suggested that Dipu's teachers be informed and brought to the hospital to pacify his fears. No one came.

On Tuesday, July 5, 13-year-old Dipu Islam died in hospital. He was buried the same day, and it wasn't until Dipu's doctors informed journalists and the latter publicised the case that the police took it up. Despite rumours that he was ill -- which were in any case refuted by his family -- the autopsy report confirmed that Dipu's death had been caused by the injuries still visible on his head, face and body, when it was exhumed a few days later.

"Who will finish reading the Quran he had started?" asks Jahanara Begum. "I don't know how to read it . . . Dipu always said he would be a teacher or an engineer when he grew up. He would look after me, move us to a bigger house. Now who will come home from school and ask, 'O ma, tumi koi?' (Mother, where are you?) and kiss me on the cheeks?"

“Dipu always used to sit here," says Sajal, a student of Class 4, pointing to the middle of the three-seater bench. Sajal, Dipu and Sadeq shared the first bench of the fairly big classroom allocated for Class 4 on the second floor of Nayatola Government Primary School. They sat together for the last time on July 2 -- Dipu's last day at school.

There are at least two different versions about just how severely Headmistress Shaheen Akhtar and Assistant Headmaster Khurshidul Haq beat Dipu. Dipu's bench-mate Sajal and another classmate Tuhin, for the most part, corroborate the teachers' version of the story. Sajal shows a particular chapter in his English book that deals with 'time', which was their home task for Saturday, July 2. ("What is the time now?" is the question on the left hand side and a clock is drawn on the right showing the time. The student is supposed to tell the time correctly from the picture).

Most of the students, including Dipu, could not answer correctly and all of them received cane-blows on their hands. "I also got one and so did Tuhin," says Sajal, while Tuhin readily nods in consent.

When asked how many blows Dipu received, Sajal is quick to reply, "Just one. She asked us to extend our hands and gave each of us one blow." Then, as if not sounding convincing enough, he hastens to add, "Boro Apa loves us very much and hardly beats us."

Khadija Sharmeen, the first girl of the class, echoes Sajal's views about "Boro Apa". She however goes a little further, apparently to justify Boro Apa's actions, "Teachers punish us for our own good."

Rabeya agrees that it is okay for teachers to beat students and, actually, necessary to make them learn properly. And anyway, she says, "Boro Apa didn't mean to beat him to death."

Sadeq, another former bench-mate of Dipu, however gives a different story-line. "Dipu was asked to write something on the board, but he could not, then Boro Apa gave him four or five blows on his hands, shoulder and back," Sadeq says.

Jahanara Khan, a senior teacher who has been at the school since 1978 and is now the acting headmistress of the school, backs up the earlier version of the story. "As far as I know, Apa hit Dipu on the hand just once and he wasn't alone; some other students were also beaten the same day," she says.

Jahanara Khan as well as Sajal and Tuhin make a crucial revelation. "Dipu used to be quite naughty until Class 3. He even spent two years in Class 2. But after getting to Class 4, he became quiet all of a sudden," says Khan. "We have heard he had been suffering from some disease and his grandmother who came with his lunch used to bring him medicine," she says.

Sajal and Tuhin claim to have seen Dipu taking the medicine, but Sadeq is doubtful saying, "I never heard or saw Dipu taking medicine."

Dipu's family has completely denied that he was ill and his grandmother claims she never took him any medicine.

Some of the students of Class 5 of Shishu Unnayan Sangstha, an NGO-run school in the same compound, also claim that Dipu was beaten severely.

"We have heard from our friends in that school that Dipu was beaten all over his body," alleges Toriqul, emphasising "all over his body". Now a student of Class 5, Toriqul has bitter memories of "Boro Apa" at Nayatola Government Primary School where he completed Class 1. But the physical punishment meted out by "Boro Apa" and some other teachers at the school frightened him so badly that his parents made him switch schools.

Despite the other teachers' claims that "Boro Apa" was a very nice person, similar stories are common in the area. Only a few houses away from Dipu's, lives Chan Mia, a CNG-autorickshaw driver. His seven-year-old daughter Chadni also used to be a student of Class 1 at Nayatola Government Primary School. But barely a month had passed before Chadni started to complain about her teachers beating her severely. At first, her parents did not pay heed. But after about a month, Chadni came home one day crying in acute pain and showed her mother marks of torture on her hands where blood had clotted up. "Kaniz Apa" had beaten Chadni because she had not prepared her lessons.

Angered, Chadni's mother and grandfather went to the school and threatened to take the child out of it if she was beaten this way. "But Boro Apa," says Chadni's mother, "instead of apologising, started saying all sorts of bad things. She said we were illiterate people from the slums whose 14 generations never went to school and we had come to teach her about how to behave! And she threatened to throw us out of the school. I walked out of the teachers' room and never sent my daughter to that school again."

Though most current students of the school hesitate to blame the headmistress outright, Dipu's classmate, Naim, quickly nods his head saying that sometimes students get badly beaten at the school.

Both the accused teachers are currently behind bars, awaiting trial. Investigation Officer (IO) Sub-Inspector Abdullah-el Baqui has almost wrapped up his investigation and will submit the charge-sheet by the end of this month. The IO confirms that the autopsy report received categorically mentions that Dipu was beaten up all over his body, including on the head. But, while the accused admitted to beating Dipu when grilled by Baqui, they rejected the forensic report that states that the boy was beaten all over his body.

It took the death of a fourth grader to bring to the limelight what goes on in many schools in our country. Whether due to ignorance or in denial, many people refuse to believe that children are physically abused at school even today. (Even though on July 16, a Bangla daily reported a religion teacher actually going to his student's house and beating her. The student was apparently late in returning to school after the lunch break because of the rain. Later, when the girl's father confronted the teacher, the latter got into a physical fight with the father and an uncle of the girl.) Some people actually condone it, thinking it is the only way to control unruly kids. But no one who has ever been beaten at school forgets it.

Shirin, now a fourth year student of Dhaka University, still remembers the day in Class 8 when, trying to help a friend during a math exam, she was beaten with a cane on the back and arm.

Nirob was beaten all throughout school in Rajbari. "One day I was hit 41 times with a cane," he says. "It hurt so much, I climbed over the school fence and ran away."

Babul, among other times, clearly remembers being beaten for repeatedly pronouncing the word "quickly" as "quickoly" in English class.

Karobi recalls being beaten each time she answered incorrectly in math and English classes. "Once the whole class was beaten for not doing their homework," she says. "The teacher hit us with rulers on our hands and actually broke the ruler while hitting one of the girls."

Wali and Shammi both remember being beaten in religion class every time they did not pray.

The list is endless. Few people can be found who were not physically abused at school. The luckier ones were punished by being made to stand on the bench, kneel down on the floor or do "uth bosh" (standing up and bending down holding their ears). One boy from a renowned school in Dhaka was even beaten with his teacher's sandals. "At least I don't have marks on my back like my father still does," jokes Nirob.

Caning and other forms of physical torture in schools have certainly declined compared to a couple of generations back, but the practice still exists, especially in schools where the majority of students come from lower income group families. However, various forms of physical torture are practised even in some of Dhaka's renowned schools. Dhanmondi Government Boys' School is one such institute.

Fahad Hossain Reean, a student of Class 9, could not go to school on June 19 due to illness. The next day, his class teacher, Abul Kalam Azad, made him, along with two other students, kneel down outside the classroom for 45 minutes at a stretch. It was too much for frail-bodied Reean. His knees got dark and swollen, his back hurt and he could not stand upright. He fell ill with a high temperature.

Reean claims his teacher punished him not because of his absence from class but because he had recently stopped going to the teacher for private tuition. "The students who go to him are never punished so brutally," says Reean, "not even when they don't prepare their lessons, let alone for being absent. None of us who were punished that day go to him for private lessons," the boy observes.

ABM Golam Mustafa, headmaster of Dhanmondi Government Boys' School, recalls that a student's guardian came to him following the incident. He assures that he will look into the matter and also talk to the teacher in question. He is however emphatic that he is against all sorts of physical punishment and has asked teachers to call guardians or give other kinds of punishment. "We caught two students roaming around in Rapa Plaza bunking classes and banned them from coming to school for one month," he says, giving an example of the kind of punishment they are giving these days.

Many teachers have not mended their brutal ways even after Dipu's brutal killing. A good number of teachers, including two female teachers of Shahid Nabi High School in Gopibagh, still come to class armed with canes and use them generously almost every day, alleges a student of Class 6, understandably wishing to remain anonymous.

The Motijheel Government High School authorities however seem to have received the right message after Dipu's death. Rubaiyat Ahmed, a student of Class 8 of the school, says that at least two of his teachers have stopped bringing canes to class. He, however, adds that some teachers are still using canes in other classes.

One of the most frightening things about physical punishment being inflicted upon students by teachers is that it is actually acceptable to many. Even those who were beaten in childhood, though still remembering the incidents with loathing, believe some degree of physical punishment may be necessary to discipline children. Karobi, now a woman in her early twenties, has a friend who teaches at a village school where the headmaster actually advises the teachers to beat their pupils, saying it is the only way to deal with them.

Psychologist and professor at Dhaka University, Dr. Mehtab Khanam, however, does not sanction any sort of physical or emotional abuse. Physical, emotional and, most of all, sexual abuse which also takes place in many schools, says Dr. Khanam, haunts children for life. As to why physical abuse takes place at school, and in the case of it being perpetrated by teachers, Dr. Khanam says that, though never desirable, it may happen for a variety of reasons.

"Teachers are themselves stressed out," she says. "Whether due to poor remuneration, trouble at home or the classroom environment, there are many factors which may frustrate teachers. Most important is the teacher-student ratio," says the psychologist. "Where the ideal ratio is about 1:25, many schools in our country have one teacher responsible for up to 70 students."

"Physical abuse obviously causes physical pain and humiliation in the short term," says Dr. Khanam. "Children may also begin to suffer from school-phobia or fear of school and studies. In the long term, they may even become fearful of any sort of authority figure, from bosses, to, in the case of women, husbands." If the child feels highly insulted he or she may, even years later, react unnaturally to the smallest insult because of the previous history of humiliation, says Dr. Khanam.

Whether physical or emotional abuse has the greater impact depends on the individual child, says Dr. Khanam. "For children who are beaten at home, it may not be such a big deal to be beaten at school," she says. "But for children who are not, even the slightest touch may bring them to tears. It really depends on the child's perception of the incident."

The best way to discipline a child, says Dr. Mehtab Khanam, is through a system of reward and short-term deprivation which should start from the home. "Reinforce good behaviour," she says, "by appreciating and rewarding it. In the case of teachers, this can be done by appreciating good work or behaviour, whether by giving happy faces, stickers, or just a word of praise."

"Discourage bad behaviour by saying that it is so. But always disapprove of the behaviour and not the child," stresses Dr. Khanam. "Externalise the behaviour from the child. Term the behaviour as naughty, not the child."

Discouragement of bad behaviour can be shown in a number of ways, says the counsellor. "You can give a child the cold shoulder for a while or send them to their rooms for five minutes. Small deprivations for small durations," says Dr. Khanam.

However, it is important to be consistent, she says. "You cannot react dramatically to the same behaviour one day and not even notice it on another, depending on your mood," says the psychologist. "Be clear about what is expected. Set both negotiable and non-negotiable rules, making sure to let the child know that the latter absolutely cannot be broken. But never miss opportunities to appreciate and encourage children," she says.



The ideal relationship between a teacher and student should be one of mutual respect, says Dr. Khanam. "Only when teachers are respectful towards their students and their families will the students be the same." There should be no fear in teacher-student relationships, she adds. Rather, there should be love, warmth, friendliness, but, of course, with certain boundaries which neither party should cross. "It is important for teachers to set an example, be the students' role models in order to initiate model behaviour on the part of the children," says Dr. Khanam.

As with everything else in our country, simply passing laws banning abuse at school will not work. As psychologist Dr. Mehtab Khanam points out, there will always be scope for victimisation, and, until and unless proper implementation of the laws is ensured, they should not be imposed.

A few months ago, Dipu wrote an essay on his favourite teacher, Assistant Headmaster Khurshidul Haq -- ironically, one of the teachers who caused his death. Neither Haq nor Headmistress Shaheen Akhtar probably meant to kill Dipu. As one of the teachers of Nayatola Government Primary School puts it, "it was an accident". But the fact remains that it was their repeated and brutal assaults that led to Dipu's death.

The relationship between teachers and students is sacred, where teachers regard their students as their children and students regard their teachers as mentors. No law and no punishment can imbue teachers or anyone else with this sense of duty, responsibility and humanity if it does not come from within.

But we cannot count on these finer values in a society that is so indifferent to the rights of children. The violence meted out to children is an everyday affair, one that most of us do not even notice. Children are doubly victimised because they have no voice, more importantly, because often, the adults responsible for protecting and guiding them are the violators of that trust. The onus obviously lies on us, the parents, the teachers and the school administrators, to realise that the medieval practice of corporal punishment must be banned, shunned and considered reprehensible. Children often need to be given limits that do not involve physical or verbal abuse. It seems adults need them even more, so that they do not end up killing children or their spirit.

The names of some of the students of Nayatola Government Primary School have been changed to protect their identities.

Copyright (R) thedailystar.net 2005

Schoolgirl Commits Suicide
Report by Lule of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance of Uganda (GALA-Uganda)

December 12, 2003: Shock gripped St. Joseph's secondary school, Nsambya, on Monday when Paula Rwomushana, 18, a senior five student, was found dead in her bed in an apparent suicide following the accusations that she was a lesbian.

Paula lived in Nsambya Hospital quarters. Her father, John Rwomushana, works in the hospital, and her mother is a nurse. A week before her death, Paula was suspended from school because she was believed to be a lesbian. Her parents brought her back on December 3, 2003.

She was caned several times in front of a whole school after the administration told her parents that she has been found with love letters from her fellow girls.

A Redpepper reporter attempted to talk to the teacher, but he refused to comment on the issue or even reveal his name. He instead sent the reporter to the Deputy Head Mistress.

The Deputy Headmistress said she didn't know what the reporter was talking about. She called the guard who escorted the reporter to the gate.

The guard was given specific instructions not to allow any student to talk to the reporter.

On the evening of Friday, December 4, 2003, Paula complained of fever. The next day, she contacted the health prefect, who got her some chloroquine tablets. The next day on Sunday she did not return for further treatment.

On Monday morning December 8, the school was woken up by a loud yell that came from her dormitory. She slept with eight other girls who found her dead in her bed.

One student called the Headmistress. Her body was taken to Nsambya hospital.

Police arrived two hours later at the hospital mortuary and took the body to Mulago for a postmortem.

Paula committed suicide after being embarrassed and caned at school.

The above story was published today in the Redpepper newspaper of 12/12/03.

Paula is not the first person to commit suicide. Last month a girl in Masaka committed suicide — Hadija attempted to commit suicide after being rejected from home.

A school in Lubaga Division punished four girls after finding out about their love affair. They were made to dig up three ant-hills and also received 30 strokes at the assembly.

Another school, in Makindye, expelled six lesbians and two gays. The school's principal warned the other students never to reveal it to the outsiders in fear of the press. How much must occur and how much time must pass? For our lawmakers to realize these violations are taking place?

The current law regarding homosexual relationships is based on carnal knowledge (that is, if you're caught in the act), but Paula was accused based on rumors. No one is guilty until proven so by the court of law. You can't punish someone based on accusations and allegations.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uganda

Schoolgirl Dies after Beating
Report by Lule of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance of Uganda (GALA-Uganda)

December 19, 2003: Following the report of Paula Rwomushana's death, further investigations reveal that she may have died as a result of her beatings and did not commit suicide.

A Redpepper report indicated that she may have committed suicide after the humiliation of a beating in front of her school mates, which she was given after school authorities discovered that she may be a lesbian. When a representative from GALA-Uganda spoke to people close to Paula they discovered that it was not suicide and that she may have died as a result of the beating itself.

"I visited Kabalagala Police Station to establish the truth behind Paula’s death. When I reached there I was referred to Katwe Police since Kabalagala didn’t handle the case," Behind the Mask was told.

"On my way I decided to have a word with the mother of the deceased. I reached St Francis Hospital Nsabya, and I asked to see Mr. [or] Mrs. Rwomusana."

Mr Rwomusana wasn’t around, however, and the GALA-Uganda representative was told that he was too busy to speak to him. He then went to St. Joseph Secondary School, which is right opposite the hospital, but the headmistress denied him a reception.

"I managed to talk to some people around, who told me that the girl actually died after the beating [and] that she never committed suicide."

Paula died in her bed but never committed suicide.

GALA-Uganda has written to the Government demanding its response towards Paula's death after finding out that she was beaten and later died - all because she was a lesbian.

"It a dilemma since the mother works [at] St. Francis hospital, which is affiliated with the school where the incident occurred, and both are funded by the Catholic mission. Her friend told me she fears to lose her job if we open up a lawsuit against the school," GALA-Uganda told Behind the Mask.

GALA-Uganda is considering a charge of manslaughter and has demanded that the Government intervene, according to a press release dated December 13, 2003. They have also demanded that the results of the postmortem be release so that the cause of death can be confirmed. The press release, which has already run on two radio stations in Uganda, also implies that Paula's death could be construed as a "State inspired purge on the LGBT community."

Principal in hot water over beating claim
By Bheko Madlala
Daily News, February 24, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOUTH AFRICA: A Durban school principal could find himself in hot water over claims that he connived with a teacher from his school to cover up an incident in which a pupil was allegedly beaten with a stick, which resulted in the boy's hand being fractured.

For the past two weeks, 15-year-old Ashlen Haripersad, who is in grade 10 at the Stanmore Secondary School in Phoenix, has been watching many of his fellow pupils' activities from the sidelines because he cannot use his injured right hand.

His angry parents have called on the department of education to take action against the teacher from the school who allegedly beat Ashlen, and the principal, whom they accuse of trying to sweep the matter under the carpet to "safeguard the school's image".

The parents say the teacher and the principal, whose names are both known to the Daily News, drew up an affidavit in which the teacher committed himself to pay for all the medical expenses in exchange for the parents not blowing the whistle on the matter.

'When I got home, my child's hand was severely swollen' The incident comes months after a pupil from a school in Mpumalanga township, outside Pinetown, died after he was beaten up by a teacher for being late.

The beating sparked a national outcry and brought home the harsh reality that some pupils were still being subjected to corporal punishment despite the fact that it was banned years ago by the government.

The distraught mother of Ashlen, Lorna, said on Wednesday that she would not rest until justice had been done in the matter.

"The incident happened on February 15. According to Ashlen, his only crime was that the teacher caught him playing with his fingers on a stool.

He then took a stick and hit him on his hand, resulting in the stick breaking.

"After the incident the teacher took my son to the deputy principal, who did not want to listen to my son's side of the story and gave Ashlen a reprimand letter. When I got home, my child's hand was severely swollen."

She said she then decided to take the matter up with the principal.

"The next day I went to the school and approached the principal and the teacher. The teacher admitted to assaulting my child and offered to pay for all the medical expenses.

"The principal asked me not to pursue the matter as it would give the school a bad name. The principal asked the secretary at the school to draw up an affidavit in which the teacher committed himself to paying for the medical expenses."

Lorna said she then took up the matter with African National Congress MP Omie Singh.

She said an X-ray report by a doctor, which is in the possession of the Daily News, had confirmed her worst fears that Ashlen's hand had been fractured.

"The doctor said the child has sustained fractures to his fourth and fifth fingers."

When the Daily News visited the school the principal, who identified himself as Dr P Arjun, refused to speak to the reporter.

Have you seen some of the bruises kids come off football games with? Are you going to ban Rugger and Soccer?

Is anyone advocating anything like this?

If we accept that deliberate infliction of pain on children is sometimes necessary and beneficial, that still leaves the question: Why caning? Is it really the most suitable means of inflicting pain? What other forms of corporal punishment, if any, have been considered? Or is it just another case of blind adherence to tradition?

I am not advocating caning, I am advocating that there be some sort of sanction that deters a child from causing the sort of havoc in a school which leads to exclusion.
To quote all the extreme cases above is no argument for that. Although murder has been 'banned' since pre-historic times there are still a dozen grisly murders every year in the UK. Banning isn't a cure all for the extremists.
I have yet to hear one contribution here from someone who would rather their child were excluded from school than he/she had a sore backside for a week!

"I have yet to hear one contribution here from someone who would rather their child were excluded from school than he/she had a sore backside for a week!" [Danny]

Well, you've heard from one NOW.

I am going to rename you 'Lotta Sense' immediately!

On second thoughts, perhaps not.

Well now you have heard from two.

Danny: Is anyone advocating anything like this?

It doesn't matter if one is advocating for anything like that. The fact is that it does happen when CP is placed in the hands of people outside the family (and too often when it is placed in the hands of people inside the family).

The stuff shown are not isolated incidences. They are just the ones that the kids and parents have the guts to go public and face the criticism of people who say things like "getting paddled never hurt me as a kid" or "he brought it on himself".

In the U.S. hundreds of thousands of kids got paddled in the last reporting year according the the U.S. Dept of Education. Most of these paddling happened in states that have the highest rate of crimes against people and the lowest school achievment rates.

Danny: Have you seen some of the bruises kids come off football games with? Are you going to ban Rugger and Soccer?

Difference is that kids who get involved in footbal games and other sports do so of their own choice knowing full well the risks and being free to stop playing any time.

Your comparison is the same as comparing making love with being raped. Choice and force, makes it very different.

culebrero: If we accept that deliberate infliction of pain on children is sometimes necessary and beneficial,

To me this type of acceptance show pathology in the adult. Deliberate infliction of pain on animals is considered a sign of significant mental illness and a sympton that is considered in diagnosing serial killers in the making. Sadly our society often put more value on pets than on children. If only kids had an advocacy group as vocal and strong as P.E.T.A.

Would you be in favor of a situation in schools where for infractions that would provoke suspension, students and their parents would be allowed to choose either the suspension option, a community service option or a CP option? This would be a decision totally left to the recipient of the punishment and his/her parents and the number of days of suspension, hours of community service or number of whacks (with conditions of the whacking noted) would be known upfront.

Also, what CP option do you think would be reasonable as far as implement, force, and number of whacks?

I'm not sure if CP would work with everyone though...in high school I used to like to get in trouble in P.E. because the P.E. teacher always used a wooden paddle on our bare bums. Rather liked the warm afterglow.

The question is a simple one: if you were selecting a 'home' for an aged parent, would you choose one that openly admitted controlling its residents by the use of violence?

Case closed.

Case closed, Lotta, not quite

At no time have I ever advocated 'controlling by violence'. That is the sort of gross over-statement that ruins good debate. What I did say was that when the time came when a school had tried everything else, exactly as it should do now, and had decided to exclude that child - with all the disruption to his/her education that it would mean, this 'extra' sanction should be necessary first.

The child would know that it would not just be a case of having a month or two off and then trundling off to some other school which agreed to take him/her. Before that point, he she would know that something unpleasant would happen. I said 'Six of the Best' as a way of illustrating that 'extra' sanction, but it could be anything that that particular child would not want to experience.

It is a parent's responsibility to do everything possible to further his/her child and see that he/she gets the best start possible in life. If you think that little Johnny is going to do well by being pushed from his school to some failing school on the other side of town that is desparate to take anything, then carry on quoting the worst scenarios to each other and make sure his little bottom never has a moment's discomfort. Mind you don't allow him to go out on his bike or play any sports though, as they can be really dangerous!

Let's get real here. What I'm saying is we all need some way of making us behave. My wallet suffers when I drive too fast, otherwise I wouldn't bother at all. Little Johnny has the same attitude - it's fun causing mayhem in the school and disrupting every other child's education. We can fine his parents but what does Johnny care? No, something needs to make him think twice. Not a caning every day or even every year, but every time he drives a school to the point where they say "No more!"

I've said enough on this subject now. Obviously none of us is going to change our different stances on it. I respect the opinions of all you good, well meaning, folk but I beg to differ and quietly withdraw.

At no time have I ever advocated 'controlling by violence'. (Danny)

You can surround what you say by nice sounding rhetoric all you want but when you slosh away all that rhetoric you see clearly that your idea is absolutely to control by violence.

Kids misbehavior---smack 'em so the won't do something you don't want again.

You can fancy it up by just saying it's not so bad and far less damaging than exclusiong BUT the fact is that you do advocate controlling by hitting (causing pain on purpose---violence).

Take that position if you want but damn, at least be honest about what it is.

I've said enough on this subject now. Obviously none of us is going to change our different stances on it. I respect the opinions of all you good, well meaning, folk but I beg to differ and quietly withdraw. (Danny)


Well it's a whole hell of a lot easier to respect the opinions of people who do not advocate hurting children as a way to control them than it is to respect the opinion of those who do.

I'd like to say I can respect your opinion, but honestly and morally, I don't.

UK news today
April 2005: 700,000 secondary school pupils skip lessons each year despite government spending £1 billion on truancy prevention programmes.

Do you all still insist 'exclusion' deters?

Deters or encourages?
No score for this post September 21 2005, 11:14 PM


UK news today
April 2005: 700,000 secondary school pupils skip lessons each year despite government spending £1 billion on truancy prevention programmes.

Do you all still insist 'exclusion' deters?

(Danny)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys like you who are so in favor of hitting kids always take this tack. It is erroneous but you try to use it to support your point.

Who exactly said they believed that exclusion deters? Not I. I simply said that hitting kids isn't a good approach. Suspension and exclusion aren't either. It is not a matter of choosing among bad options as a solution to complex problems but trying to find good ones.

In this situation, I would want to know a whole lot about what it is about schools in the UK that makes 700,000 secondary pupils believe that schools are something that need to be avoided. Or what makes what they are going to on the outside of school so much more appealing. You don't solve complex problems like this by a superficial look and and even more superficial solution. I would also want to know what exactly these programs were that were used so unsuccessfully to prevent truancy. And if the data showed the programs weren't working, I'd want to know who was in charge and didn't decide to stop before all that money was wasted.

Ideas often get implemented with absolutely not data to support their use or any indication that preliminary results support their continuation.

So Danny, why are you the type of person who thinks the only way to get compliance is through punishment and deterrents rather than finding out what the real issues are and then coming up with solutions that are positive, involve the kids you hope to affect and uses actual data to demonstrate success? Oh yeah, it's just easier to smack a kid and hope for the best. So where is your data that smacking kid alone ever really had any long term effective success solving any problem?

Please come up with your magical solution as quickly as you can, Jonathan, because that one billion punnds is as nothing compared with the price the excluded kids are going to pay for the rest of their lives.

Please come up with your magical solution as quickly as you can, Jonathan, because that one billion punnds is as nothing compared with the price the excluded kids are going to pay for the rest of their lives.
(Danny)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn, Danny, at least be honest. There have been any number of responses giving specific and concrete ways to approach kids to change behavior for the good that doesn't involve hitting them in several of the threads in which you've posted on this board . You just don't want to hear them nor understand them, so you just ignore them and play your one note tune over and over and over. I suspect you like the idea of whacking kids and try to justify it through some perverse declaration of altruism and promote it as an answer to society's problems". Please! Give us all a break.

You want some magical "solution" that is easy, effortless and quick and likely entertaining to you. So bend them over and whack their bums and then hide behind the excuse that you are just suggesting something far better than exclusion that will affect them negatively "for the rest of their lives".

Either you are a fetishist promoting a cause and cannot separate fantasy from reality or you are so extrodinarily negative that you cannot comprehend that you really do get more from people with positives than with negatives. Which is it?

And in how many classrooms have you been a teacher? In how many schools have you been a principal/headmaster? What is your involvement with the actual situation that you seem to think you know so much about? Or what personal axe do you have to grind that makes you so eager to whack kids?

It's a matter of common observation that well-disciplined schools do a better job of educating children than poorly-disciplined ones. Where there is any choice, this is reflected by the market - all those parents desperately buying into the catchment areas of the former kind. Whether the cane is a necessary part of maintaining discipline seems to me a minor question. I don't think it ought to be ruled out. But a decently-run school will reflect the saying that the cane is only working where it doesn't need to be used. At my provincial grammar school in the Sixties the head master and deputy head mistress both had the power to cane, which was seldom exercised and then discretely. It wasn't much used, but added to their aura of authority. Danny I think has only argued that this kind of thing was not an evil, needing to be stamped out. I agree, though I think that discipline is not a kind of thing that can just be legislated into existence. The disagreement seems to be between those who think discipline a good and those who dislike the idea.

Outis stated:

"It's a matter of common observation that well-disciplined schools do a better job of educating children than poorly-disciplined ones. Where there is any choice, this is reflected by the market - all those parents desperately buying into the catchment areas of the former kind."

No argument on that as long as one can define "discipline" as something far more than simply punishment.


Outis stated: "Whether the cane is a necessary part of maintaining discipline seems to me a minor question. I don't think it ought to be ruled out. But a decently-run school will reflect the saying that the cane is only working where it doesn't need to be used."

I disagree. Using corporal punishment as a coercive measure to maintain "discipline" is not discipline at all. Discipline implies a modicum of self-control and moral recognition on the part of those following the rules. Fear of being hit does not either develop a moral code nor create true discipline.

Outis stated: "At my provincial grammar school in the Sixties the head master and deputy head mistress both had the power to cane, which was seldom exercised and then discretely. It wasn't much used, but added to their aura of authority."

I would not give such power to the cane but would attribute the development of authority to the human characteristics and the behaviors or these successful masters and deputy masters. Are you suggesting that these same individuals would not or could not have created the same sense of authority without the threat of a cane?

Outis stated; "Danny I think has only argued that this kind of thing was not an evil, needing to be stamped out."

I disagree. Danny stated: "I think corporal punishment should be re-introduced as an 'ultimate deterrent' in schools." This is neither discipline, moral education nor even viewed as a rarely used alternative but suggested as the "utlimate deterrent", the big gun to be used instead of anything positive.

Outis stated: "The disagreement seems to be between those who think discipline a good and those who dislike the idea."

Absolutley disagree, that is how some would like to characterize the disagreement but that is simply NOT the case. I am wholly supportive of the idea of discipline, rules, standards, high expectations, and making children responsible and accountable for their actions. I believe real discipline IS good. The idea that I dislike is the erroneous proposition posted by some that discipline equals punishment and effective discipline equals or requires hitting children with sticks.

Dear Jonathan
You do your cause no good by repeatedly insulting me. Can you not conduct a sensible debate without critisising the opposite point of view as perverse and currupt?
I started this thread in order to invite sensible ideas as to how children could be saved from a life of poverty and boredom. You agree that discipline is a good and necessary thing but that isn't the question that needs answering. Your idea of discipline is to try everything and then exclude the student. My idea of discipline is to try everything and then, before the final blow which will cripple that child for life, something is inserted in the procedure to make him/her think again.
If a high proportion of kids are truanting regularly, as it is reported to be the case, then sending them home permanently is not the answer. Surely that must be a truism? If you were caught speeding and your 'punishment' was a permit allowing you to do a 100mph on the motorway, would that be a deterrence?
Contrary to what you think, I do not get any pleasure out of 'hitting' children. I get no pleasure out of seeing people sent to prison either but I think there has to be something that will deter most people (and, note, I am not saying all people) from committing crimes. If there are other ways of detering people that are more effective than prison then I say try them. If you have ways of stopping kids from ruining their futures, let's try that too! By the way 90% of those in prison have had little or no education - in other words, in one way or another, they were 'excluded'!
You say listen to them, understand them, councel them, I agree. I'm sure that's where the education authorities have spent the billion pounds, Jonathan. All I am saying is when all those methods have been tried and tried again and it gets to the stage where the child is about to be excluded, something they do not relish - whether that's corporal punishment or something else - is there before the knock-out blow. That is not going around hitting kids in the way my generation were treated, it is throwing them a life line. My guess is the cane would be very rarely used, as Outis rightly says, having it available is what matters.
So please come up with something better as an argument than calling me names.

Danny wrote: "You do your cause no good by repeatedly insulting me."

If you find what I am saying as insulting then I suggest you rethink your position and your statements as what I am saying simply reflects what you are saying.

Danny wrote: "Can you not conduct a sensible debate without critisising the opposite point of view as perverse and currupt?"

Sensible debate? You don't want that. I and others have raised many points on this and other threads that reference years of experience, valid research and well-recognized psychological principles that you simply ignore and proceed only with pronouncements of the rule of the cane.


Danny wrote: "I started this thread in order to invite sensible ideas as to how children could be saved from a life of poverty and boredom."

Your altruism is pretty thin. You started this thread to promote hitting children hiding behind the guise of it being better than suspension. What I have yet to hear you say is that substituting one bad option for another is really no option at all. You approach children only with the negative...that is our real argument. You want punishment to be the ultimate approach. I want education, good example, encouragment, positive reinforcement and incentive to be the ultimate approach. That, Danny, is our difference.

Danny wrote: "You agree that discipline is a good and necessary thing but that isn't the question that needs answering. Your idea of discipline is to try everything and then exclude the student."


I never once said I was in favor of exclusion of students. I challenge you to find that statement any place in any message I have written. In fact all you will find is consistent statements that exclusion is also a bad option. What is it Danny, if you can't debate the true points, you make up things and attribute them to those who challenge your beliefs?

Danny wrote: " My idea of discipline is to try everything and then, before the final blow which will cripple that child for life, something is inserted in the procedure to make him/her think again."

Your clearly stated idea is to hit kids with canes as an ultimate deterrent. That is quite clear from your initial thead-starting comment. It's there in black and white. Unlike you have done with me, I am not making up words and claiming they have come from your mouth.


Danny wrote: "Contrary to what you think, I do not get any pleasure out of 'hitting' children. I get no pleasure out of seeing people sent to prison either but I think there has to be something that will deter most people (and, note, I am not saying all people) from committing crimes."

I believe your strong support of hitting children belies a pleasure in doing so, either out of retribution or some other reason. As far as what you believe, support it with facts if you can. Show me any reasonable data that supports your contention that corporal or capital punishment has an long term significant deterring effect. Show me even that incarceration has any long term deterring effect. I challenge you to provide any sort of bona fide research data that supports what you "think" and what you claim to be truth. Or should we simple accept your declarations as fact because you declare them?

Danny wrote: "If there are other ways of detering people that are more effective than prison then I say try them. If you have ways of stopping kids from ruining their futures, let's try that too! By the way 90% of those in prison have had little or no education - in other words, in one way or another, they were 'excluded'!"

Recent studies in prisons indicate a few things: There was no lack of corporal punishment generally in the life of prisoners, much of it being rather severe, that a large proportion of the prison popluation are people with learning disabilities that were either undiagnosed or ignored. The best way, in my estimiation, based on the reasearch I have read and my many years of experience working with children is that you need to set high standards, be consistent, fair, compassionate and reall provide for the specific needs of children in order for them to grow well. Mild punishment as a logical consequence of misbehavior has its place certainly, but hitting and hurting children has clearly shown to often provode agression, hostility, withdrawal and learned helplessness.

Danny wrote: "That is not going around hitting kids in the way my generation were treated, it is throwing them a life line."

Nonsense....hitting children is not throwing them a "lifeline"..it's causing pain to control. My generation is likely the same as yours. I was no stranger to CP as a child so I know all about the situation that you are talking about. It is naive to see that differences between the 1950's and the 2000's as being simply a change in the amount of CP---society has changed dramatically in that period. The family is different. Economics are difference. Parental involement is different. The media children are exposed to is different. And on and on and on. And you in your naivete think that whacking a kid on the bum with a stick is going to have a dramatic impact? Please.

Danny wrote: "So please come up with something better as an argument than calling me names. "

What you call "names" are simply descriptions of who you are based on what you say. Try doing some reasearch in the area that you argue about. Read the research on operant and classical conditioning. Read the reaseach done by Gelles, Strauss, Baumrind, and even spanking defenders like Larzelere. Read about learning theory. Read studies about the effects of pain on human beings. Try to educate yourself before making outrageous claims that are based solely on what you "think" and what you would like to be the truth.

If I had known Jonathan was an expert in these matters I would never have dared to express an opinion. As a mere layman I should know my place and keep quiet. Anyway, I bow to his superior knowledge and apologise most humbly. No point in having this forum really, is there?

Yes, there really is point in having this forum.

Danny said: "If I had known Jonathan was an expert in these matters I would never have dared to express an opinion. As a mere layman I should know my place and keep quiet."

Now there is a mature response. I never indicated I was an expert. There is a different though in making sure you are informed and having experience and expressing a point of view and simply expressing a point of view and expecting blind acceptance of it when it is based on little more than wishful thinking and unsupported, biased, personal observation.

Danny said: "Anyway, I bow to his superior knowledge and apologise most humbly."

If you can't support your point of view, I suppose you do have to resort to whining and sarcasm. What else is there? Certainly you haven't answered any of the questions I have asked you about where you position comes from, how it is supported and why we should believe what you think.

Danny said: " No point in having this forum really, is there?"

Of course there is. The point, in case you didn't get it, is certainly to have conversations about this topic that are reasonable, logical and supported by fact and information. If you make pronouncemenand post on a bulletin board like this one then expect a response. "And guess what, the response isn't always going to simply accept what you have to say, particularly when you offer no support for your position other than "I believe I am right. This is what I think."

If you have any real evidence to support your point of view, I would be glad to listen but so far all I've gotten from you is misinterpretations of what I have actually said, accusations and the unsupported insistence of the correctness of your point of view.