Why did the kinky teachers make their pupils bend over for punishment? They could have given a few whacks without having the child in such a humiliating position. Desmond Morris had something to say about this submissive posture but I can’t remember what.

In his book "The Naked Ape", Desmond Morris pointed out that the bent over posture is the same position which the female ape adopts to receive penetration by the male during copulation. He then drew a parallel between this, and methods of corporal punishment used in schools, where the victim was required to bend over. He drew a psyco-sexual parallel between the thrusts of the male ape's penis during copulation, and the strokes of the cane or birch during corporal punishment, and argued that in psyco-sexual terms, they represented the same thing.

It is definitely a fact that bending over has the effect of causing the cane ,birch or slipper or whatever to impact the region of the buttocks closer to the anus and genitals than it would if applied in a standing position. I think Mr. Morris had a point.

Thank you for that, Peter. I now remember that Desmond Morris also wrote that girls are seldom punished in school in the bending over position, because of the sexual implications. From what we read here it seems that it was not as rare as he thought.

If Desmond’s theory is correct, this goes a long way to explain the sub conscious psyco-sexual feelings many of us experienced witnessing SCP, beginning with primary school.

As adults our interest in CP, forums like this, Men, still becoming aroused by the primordial urges when presented with buttocks, and the female acquiescent.


The bent over position adopted in schools for centauries past, is much part of the ritual as the punishment itself , the submission, the humiliation. Many would argue the positioning in the bending position allows a target area, more suitably positioned, achieving the perfect aim to contact point, without the cause of additional body damage.

So why the hell did we submit ourselves to the ritual of bending over, knowing what was coming , None of us enjoyed the experience, what were we so afraid of that we didn’t refuse. Was it the psyco-sexual parallel we obliged to, and by not being attracted to our punishers, where, at senior school when more sexually aware, the reason we found it so humiliating, resentful, even abusive.

Anyone here ever refused to comply? or having SCP administered by the opposite sex, felt more humiliated.

K

Ketta,

Refusal to bend over may have resulted in either

Being held down, as in the case of Karen McAdoo

or expulsion.

We have little information on boarding schools and it would be interesting to know what would have happened to you, had you refused to get into position for punishment. Do you know of any pupils at your school who refused to comply?

RA2

I didn’t know of any incident, Clarendon, where someone didn’t finally comply.

Failure complying to head of house or form tutor would see pupil sent to the Head, immediate.

The Head always followed all CP with the addition of gating, or SAPs.(Saturday afternoon punishment, 2hrs min). Refusal or failure of any part of the punishment resulted in immediate parent contact and threat of expulsion. It was deemed you except any form of punishment, your parents having signed you over, the school acting in loco parentis. Parents/Pupils were issued with rule books which laid out the schools policy on CP.

My brother refused a prefects caning, consequently beaten very severely by his sadistic house master, KWC circ 1950’s (Boarder)

Friends brother, refused Heads’ caning resulting in expulsion, Sloane Grammar, London, 60’s

Consider the huge number of pupils caned every year, Would schools have expelled every pupil should they all have refused to be caned.


k

I don't know of anyone who refused at my school. They did make it an implicit threat that if you didn't comply, they would get another teacher to help make you comply.

Looking back on it today, I wonder what they could have done if they knew every single time it would be a knock down drag out fight.

Friend’s brother, refused Head’s caning resulting in expulsion, Sloane Grammar, London, 60’s. (Ketta)

From the reminiscences on the Friends Reunited site, Sloane Grammar can be added to our list of ‘Big Fladge Schools’. One member of staff, Mr. Grindal, was apparently known as ‘Flogger’. Of him a former pupil writes:

During the short unsupervised period between lessons, bedlam would sometimes ensue. During one such episode the masters or mistresses chair was decimated. It was then carefully reassembled and placed back behind its desk on the dais. The French mistress who next stepped onto the dais and greeted us with "Bonjour mes eleves", then attempted to pull her chair back as we responded "Bonjour Madame". The dear lady was left standing with just the top rail of the chair in her hand as the rest crumbled to the floor. She said no more but left the room returning shortly after with Mr.Grindal. Since nobody would "own up" to the deed, everyone in the class (about 30) was bent over a desk and caned by "Flogger" Grindal.


On the subject of bending over, I found the following in the archives:

The more acute the angle at which the person being punished is bent, the greater the physical pain, since the gluteal muscles are more tightly stretched and the nerve-endings are brought closer to the surface of the skin.

Any child who refused to bend over - and that would be most of them these days - should be held down over a desk by two strong members of staff, like they used to do at Sharman’s Cross School thirty years ago.

We wonder why we, the older - much older - generation never refused to bend over when ordered to. What has to be remembered is, we were conditioned to it by our siblings, our peers, our parents and society in general. The tradition of the school, every school, meant it was almost unthinkable to most - and we knew that if we did try something like that we would always come off worse.
Why do most people never refuse arrest by a policeman? Because we know we would be in even worse trouble! Point made.

I know several boys (grammar school, all-boys, 1970s) who refused on the first invitation to bend over, but who all complied in the end. They went red in the face, reinforcing Ketta's suggestion that they were probably aware at a subconscious level of the psycho-sexual dimension. It probably made it worse for them that this happened in front of the whole class. Were girls similarly made to exhibit themselves in a bent-over posture in front of the whole class, Ketta, or was it done more discreetly in their cases?

Nero

Girls were a bit more fortunate, avoiding the classroom arena and gaze . More discreet maybe, still didn’t make bending over feel any less humiliating

K

1. Bending over a desk.
2. Bending over the arm of a chair.
3. Bending over the back of a chair.
4. Bending over, hands on knees.
5. Bending over, touching toes.
6. Bending over the teacher’s knee. (Spanking with hand or slipper only. Use of the cane is impractical in this position).

Not true, number 6. The first time I was given the cane I was over my aged Headmaster's knee. I admit it didn't hurt until the fifth whack but that (and the next and last) did sting me.

How unusual!

School canes were around three feet in length, and would be difficult to control with the person being caned in the over the knee position.

DD

In infants & primary school,the cane was often the teacher's blackboard pointer-usually about half that length, and as effective as the real thing,especially when wealded by a woman teacher!

There was also a company selling canes to parents into the early 80's I read about in Weekend. They did a special model for children small enough to punished over the knee-sick bastards;about on a par with land-mine manufacturers!

It's also worth noting, that rather like boxing, the shorter-range hit can hurt a bloody site more. It's surprising how effectively you can spank over the knee with hand or slipper, so caning may be the same-never tried it out on a willing partner with the stick & the only time I got it at school was bending over.

I think the answer is probably over the knee it's easier to manoeuvre the bottom into the POMO(Position of Maximum Opportunity). As I've only got Physics O level grade 6, we may need better qualified scientists on this theorem I've just discovered!



Steve M


Steve M

Paul

You're right about this cane being shorter than normal, I'd guess it was 18" long at the most. It wasn't at Primary school though, I was eleven and had only started at Grammar school about two months earlier. He did produce a couple of normal canes which he swished around, obviously to impress me, before deciding on the shorter one.

No matter what Desmond Morris said,the bending over position is a purely practical one. This man,just like Sigmund Freud,saw everything as sexual. That's why he was a bestseller. But Freud was probably closer to the truth.
The only time when this position was sexual was when it was given on bare buttocks. The implication would be obvious. Strangely,or otherwise,with girls it was the opposite. It was more sexual when they were caned bending over wearing clothes,be they jeans,skirt or shorts. So this brings D.Morris' argument to nil.
And about the blackboard pointer,if memory serves me right,was much longer than the cane.

The true purpose of bending over is so the Caner can observe any telephone directories or Latin Grammars stuffed down the back of a boys trousers!
I thought we would have known that?
Its possible that a suspicuiously large number of underpants might also show through for such a hot day.
In which case demands for the lowering of trousers and the consequent removal of all but ONE Pair of underpants of a normal texture and thickness
might well be within United Kingdon Caning regulations as they were as it does not mention this secnario.As long as the punishment was carried out upon the clothed seat.
Neither does it add if trousers could initially be lowered in order to cceck and position underpants prior to punishment such as the pulling of legs up into the backside crevice in order to produce bare cheeks under the then replaced trousers?
However this latter modus operandii may have the unfortunate effect of creating a large central cloth bulge along the length of the bottom crevice
thus resulting in deflection of the cane from the buttocks if it was to swish them at all.
Problems Problems.

Very scientific for what is considered a pure art.
Or is it?
Is caning an art or a science?
I prefer to call it the Art of Caning,sounds more erotic.
The Science of Caning might also appeal to some,though it sounds a bit clinical.
Could we have the opinion of readers about this?

Bending over merly tightens the buttocks thus making it more effective, sting wise and position wise.
Bozo, Clothed bottoms for punishment, not always so. Lots authourities had no rule on this. Regulations could be very open. Same goes for number of strokes could be 3,6 or anything. It had to be interpreteded as reasonable chastisement that a parent would give.

I prefer to cane the naughty boys standing up,with pants down and hands on head,so everything will be on display.

I guess we can all sleep better tonight knowing Eric has de-bunked Dr. Morris (a world renowned expert on human sexuality) with absolutely no supporting evidence other than his opinion.

I guess I was wrong when I felt that hand rubbing my bottom cheek when I was bent over for CP by a male teacher. Of course he said he was checking for a wallet. Funny it didn't feel that way at the time because his hand was mostly in the crack between my cheeks.

That's the problem with these sweeping generalizations. Nothing applies to everyone universally. It also fails to take into account the fact that most teachers who liberally applied CP did so because they liked it. They were easy to spot because they were the ones who had more rules than anyone else and happily enforced them mercilessly.

I thnk I gave enough supporting evidence,my dear Bob,though only a few in a limited time.
This is not my opinion,but based on experience and observations.
And you are making sweeping generalizations yourself when you say that the worst caning teachers applied CP because they liked it.
From my experience in primary school most teachers who applied CP liberally were those who wanted to vent their frustrations on the nearest and easiest target,which happened to be us boys. And there certainly was nothing sexual about it. And this is another one for your Dr.Morris.

I think you are just about right when you say that they wanted to vent their frustrations.
Not all were like that but in my experience a minority were.
I never observed any type of "dodgy touching" like Bob experienced though.

The bad touching only happened once. That was in the 9th grade and I did make a fuss about it. I must have been 13 at the time.

I think whatever their reasons, they did it because they liked it. Whether it was venting or sexual doesn't really matter. The result was abuse.

Mimi; Nobody observed it when it happened to me either. I caused enough trouble over it that I doubt he ever tried it again.

At my Church of England Junior School (1961-1965),the buys had to touch their toes in front of the class for the pump (smooth-soled punishment slipper). Most teachers made the girls touch their toes for the pump, and then lifted their skirts, but some teachers put the girls over their knee before lifting their skirts and pumping them.

In my first year at Grammar School (1965-1966), we had a French Mistress who put naughty boys like me across her knee and applied the pump enthuisiastically to the seat of my short trousers.

Well this one got everyone going!

Although our school still had bottom caning (called "dusting") it rarely occurred and I should imagine died out soon after my period in school.

Most Aussies in govt schools were caned (or strapped in Victoria) on the hands. The reason was never stated, as far as I know, but one always suspected it was to avoid sexual connotations.

However, the strategem was only partially effective because handcaning, although much less common, does occur in adult fetishism....and that has no connection with baboons or anything else.

In fact, in adult fetishism, people are caned or otherwise flagellated on just about any part of the anatomy that won't result in an internal injury. They also assume many positions other than the bending one - standing at the triangle, laying on a bench, tied up in a sling, you name it.

Unfortunately, if removing sexual connotations was the reason, it was at the cost of more pain. Handcaning is very much more painful, assuming similar application intensity, for the reason that a) the hand is bare b) the hand has less padding and c) the hand has bones only centimetres below the surface.

I'm aware the S. Africans (particularly Afrikaans speaking schools) caned girls standing at just a slight angle and pulling their skirt to make it flush with the skin - and there could only be a sexual reason for that. Again, I'm not sure it worked, as I've had conversations with female fetishists who had the experience and seem to have incorporated the imagery in their mindsets.

Youtube contains clips of more recent school canings in Korea and Thailand, apparantly captured on mobile phone cameras, in which the recipient is more or less upright.

Some US private schools have manuals illustrating how to paddle and they have the student just leaning against the edge of the desk for support, not bending.

As someone has mentioned, there is a health and safety reason for caning a person bent over - such a position makes the accidental striking of the tail bone or kidneys extremely unlikely and exposes the "sit spot", which seems to be the most capable of receiving the treatment.

In conclusion, why bending over? Physically and practically its the best place. Yes the bottom is an erogenous zone, but fetishists don't seem to be confined to it at all, unless they function entirely on traditional schoolie imagery.

I thought that the bending over and touching toes for example was so that the hands are well away from the target area.
If caning was done in a standing position it would be instinctive to put your hands back in the way.
Another theory is that the stretched buttocks bending over feel the pain more as the nerve endings are closer to the skin`s surface in that position.
Bending over does signal that you`re submitting to the discipline.
Fascinating subject.


Paul

SF&R: sfrsite.topcities.com

Paul has summed it up in a few words.
here "normal" teachers are concerned of course.
For kinky teachers who caned on the bare bottom it is of course of great assistance for inspecting the parts that are private.

Another aspect of this is that it allowed "kinky teachers" the pleasure of making a pupil bent over before them, bottom in the air, without necessarily inflicting serious punishment. I have known teachers who took a lot of pleasure in making someone bend over, before just tapping them lightly. That way, they were able to guard themselves against any charges of a cruel or excessive use of force, while still participating in the forms of ritual (humiliation and submission) that, as Ketta noted above, were actually as crucial to the experience of punishment as the pain itself.

In the old days there was but one crime at school - challenging the authority of the authorities by disobedience or breaking the rules. Running in the corridor, socks not pulled up and arson were against the rules and hence equally bad, or nearly so. The cure was simple . The boy (sic) was required to submit to the authority of the authorities. Presenting the buttocks is an inate form of submission and is made especially so if the submission is painful. It was not necessarily a net negative experience for the boy. He was able to placate those he had offended and to prove his courage and more.