Does anyone know of a single documented case in recent times (1960on)in The UK of a woman au pair assistant temp teacher assisting in corporal punishment?
This would technically break the same sex rule.
Situiation might be overseeing showering/dorm patrol/PE.
Might be a assistant au pair in loco parentis or intern.
Probably a Sloane Ranger type as this is associated with Upper Class Boarding Schools.
As most school were all male females might only number 1 or 2
in 5-600 males.
Sitauation was probably that a male teacher instigated the punishment but the female was not adverse to over seeing,witnessing or assiting eg in restraint or fetching of implements,lowering of pants etc.
Would probably think nothing of it might even find it amusing?
Might even be a relative of the Head or another teacher.
Or a parent or some sort of anciallary staff-school matron/nurse/cleaner?
However not a passer by !
Any cases please?
I had a female friend who used to work in a boy's reformatory school in South Africa in the 70's or 80's during apartheid when she was in her 20's. The boys were all africans ages 11 to 16. She told me that she and her other white female friends used to watch the boys being lined up naked in the school yard to be caned one after the other on their buttocks. This was almost a daily occurance since there were many boys in this school and there were usually about a dozen boys waiting to be caned. She said she and her friends enjoyed working there since it was a girl's paradise. Not mentioning the pool where the boys were made to swim in the nude.
July 6 2008, 6:02 PM
Hmmm sounds plausible and interesting!
That they were African boys though does make it rather basic.
This sounds very like the behaviour of females in the schoolyard/playground:
shouty,bullying and sadistic.
Even today we used to pass a small schoolyard(one of those snobby little
prep schools who cater to lower middle class parents)on the way to the shops
and regularly heard punishments occurring behind the wall.
Such as stand against the wall with your hands on your head in the pouring rain for half an hour,boys being harangued shouted at and lambasted.
Many of the teachers engaged in such educative conduct were females.
They appeared to have gone taotally power mad-at times we feared for the
welfare of some of the pupils in there!
Females and boys' showers
July 7 2008, 5:25 PM
Actually there is documented evidence of females overlooking boys while they shower. I once saw an article in Time or Life magazine about a boys' institution in America Which was full of photos to depict the life of these boys in this institution.And one was a full page photo of these boys swimming stark naked and running around the pool naked with two young women overlooking them. I remember there were about 40 boys in the photo, all about the age of 12 and all naked. This magazine was from the 60's. They didn't have any hangups back then about child nudity as they do today and even respected magazines showed them freely.
This article agrees entirely with my previous letter about that woman who used to work in South Africa in a boys' institution and she mentioned that she and her female friends used to go swimming in the school's pool when the boys were swimming there totally naked. The girls wore swimming suits of course. And these boys were up to age 16, but they had no choice and had to swim naked. So I suppose they had no privacy in the showers either. Anybody ever had similar experiences?
Way off topic, but nonetheless seems to be relevant to this thread
July 7 2008, 9:40 PM
I've noticed that both here and in the USA press pictures of unfortunateNote 1 males who have fallen foul of the law frequently show them handcuffed to female escorts on their way to/from court.
Some of these ladies certainly look as though they'd be worth any two men should the prisoner cut up rough, but even so I have always assumed that the choice of female escort is deliberate to demean the prisoner. Very much as the women cited in Eric's postings above seem to have been employed to demean the young male inmates of the institutions concerned. Not a good thing IMHO.
Note 1: Before anyone complains, doubtless some of the persons being escorted were guilty as hell! I use the term 'unfortunate' out of normal human compassion for anyone in such a situation.
females witnessing punishment of males
July 8 2008, 1:19 AM
Speaking of South Africa I found a post on another website a long time ago (can't remember the name so sorry no hyperlink) of a man who had undergone a judicial birching as a teenager in SA. He described how the birchings were carried out in the basement of the courthouse after office hours and he specifically states that female members of the courthouse staff used to go along informally to witness them. Since the usual custom during these birchings was for the prisoner to be stripped from the waist down this meant that the women and girls standing by had the opportunity to enjoy viewing any number of semi-naked teenage boys being flogged on their bare bottoms in a state of quite some distress and degradation. Nobody seemed to think it was wrong for these women to be there. The writer claims to bear these female viewers no resentment claiming that the boys usually took the presence of female witnesses as a sign that their punishment wasn't going to be totally severe (of course as a miscreant awaiting a particularly fearsome corporal punishment he wouldn't have been in any position to object in any way). Apparently the male police officers administering the birch didn't seem to see any reason why these women and girls shouldn't watch the letter of the law being laid on. It is easy to assume that their reasoning was, that since these youths had been convicted of offences deemed punishable by a profoundly humiliating physical procedure then anything which might add to the infliction of that humiliation' ie allowing women to be present while the sentence was carried out, was really only fitting. Could it really have been the situation during these courthouse birchings that women were present? Does any other poster here have any more in-depth knowledge of South African judicial CP?
Funnily enough I can remember many years ago reading an article in The Sun Newspaper (in the 70s in fact) which advocated the birch as a solution the the then-rampant problem of football hooliganism. The writer had actually interviewed the last man to receive the birch in Engand (up to that point anyway)and got him to describe his experience. This man was luckier than the South African birchees in that he was at least allowed to keep his pants on, although his trousers were lowered. I remember that this account mentioned in passing that among the small group of witnesses to his birching there was a WPC. He made no elaboration on why she should have been there but I remember thinking when I read this that it must have been acutely humiliating to have a female witness to his punishment.
So maybe such female witnesses were more common than we might think.
What about Singapore with its notorious judicial canings? The advent of equal rights for women in that state means that women have an equal entitlement with men to pursue careers as lawyers, judges, politicians, and doctors (yet while retaining their traditional exemption from the occasional unpleasant and traumatic experiences that are perennially forced on their male 'counterparts' such as school caning and military service). As a matter of fact I have read that the prosecutor who pressed for the cane for Michael Fay's 1994 misadventure was a woman. Judicial caning in Singapore is for male lawbreakers only. Men sentenced to the cane are examined by a doctor beforehand to determine whether they are physically fit to receive it. Are there any women doctors working in the prison system there who have to undertake this task?
Back in the era when the cane and slipper were commonplace in British schools there surely must have been many female teachers, secretaries and school matrons and nurses who actually witnessed or were aware of the cane and the slipper in action (one account of a matron who glimpsed a boy's cane marks and displayed scant sympathy is actually mentioned on the now-defunct Abbey's Forum). Matrons and school nurses at public schools in particular would have been aware of the presence of the cane in the lives of their charges since it was a mandatory part of their job to supervise the boys at bath- and shower-time, when it would have been impossible for boys to hide their stripes.
July 8 2008, 10:48 AM
I've talked with several men over the years from all walks of life, some are my friends and some just casual acquaintances,who were brought up in church orphanages run by nuns and priests,and they all agree in detail about what went on in these places.
One of these was that sometimes they put on a show for some female upper class guests,who obviously paid for the privilege,by spanking or caning the older boys,about 14 years,in front of them. The boy was usually tied up by his hands to a wall and caned slowly. The boy was always naked.
These men now in their 40s and 50s also say that some of them about the ages of 12 to 14 were taken as "guests" for the weekend to these women's homes,who usually lived alone. I will tell you what went on there in another posting. They always seemed to pick the most handsome boys. As I said these were well-off women and could pay for these privileges.
Governesses and Nursemaids
July 10 2008, 12:00 AM
In England, going back 150 years ago and beyond, it was common for the children of aristocratic families in the big country houses to be under the care of a “governess”. The parents themselves often had little involvement in the raising of their children. The house would have an area, comprising several rooms, called the “nursery”. The governess was a woman employed by the family to run the nursery, and have charge over the daily care of the children of the house, including their basic education, discipline and punishment.
Typically, a governess would come from a lower social class than the family she worked for, but would nevertheless be a well educated woman. It was one of the first “professions” that women, who had a reasonable standard of education, could enter, in order to achieve a degree of independence. In those days, the nurseries of the great country houses might have 10 or more children, ranging from babies and infants, up to the ages of 10 or 11, at which age the boys would be sent to one of the great public schools, such as Eton. The girls would stay on for a couple more years, and then be sent to one of the “finishing schools” for young ladies, to prepare them for introduction to aristocratic society, and marriage.
The governess would usually have one or two lower ranking servants under her, called nursemaids. These would often be quite young girls who had entered domestic service, perhaps at the age of only 14 or 15. They would often have to do the more messy and intimate roles such as washing and bathing the children, toileting and nappy changing etc. The governess would usually be a more mature woman, but some governesses might themselves be as young as their early to mid twenties.
As I mention above, the governess had charge of the discipline and punishment of the children, of both sexes, the punishments invariably being corporal punishment with the birch rod. When a boy or girl was to be whipped, it was often the duty of the young nursemaids to “horse” the victim on her back, piggy back style, while the governess applied the birch to the child’s bare buttocks. The nursemaid would then complete the job, by sponging down the raw and bloodied bottom after the birching, and applying ointment to it.
I often wonder what thoughts might have been going through the mind of a 16 year old nursemaid girl, when “piggy backing” a naked, wriggling and writhing 10 year old boy, his thighs straddled around her waist, clenching and unclenching, while the governess whipped his bare buttocks raw with the birch!
Governesses and Maids
July 10 2008, 8:30 AM
I've read several biographies of famous people and they neariy all have the same pattern in their childhood chapters. Many of them were brouht up by governesses and as previous post said CP was a must in these instances. In fact these governesses were mostly trained in orphanages and other boys' institutions where corporal punishment was the order of the day. So they had a lot of practice.
One of the most graphic accounts is in Lord Byron's biography where it is mentioned that at 11yrs old his governess attended to every detail of his daily baths and was a strict disciplinarian. She used to spank him often and even used to put her tongue inside between his buttocks to check if he washed properly after his baths.
Another account which is more recent is of a famous filmstar who recounts that at age 11 he was put in some sort of institution,Iforgot which ,where the first thing he had to do was take a bath in front of a maid.He says it was very embarassing to bathe while the young girl sat there and watched him. She was only about 16 years old.
I'm sure that these things still go on in some institutions around the world and maybe even close home,who knows!
July 19 2008, 3:25 AM
These judicial canings of boys which Safrada is referring to is all found on the Corpun site in the Judicial Punishments in South Africa section.
There are several articles on juvenile punishments there,most of which are official.
It says thousands of boys from ages 9 to 20 were sentenced to be caned every year by the courts.
So this was a daily occurance in nearly every court there. Sometimes as much as 8 boys in a single day. The sentences were usually carried out in the court's premises after the court was adjourned.
There was a recent lnterview with a policeman(now retired) who used to carry out these canings himself who gave an exact description of what went on. In it he says that the boys were taken to a large cell where they were made to strip naked from the waist down and held on a flat table where they were given the number of strokes odered by the court with a cane. He says that there were usually a number of female court employees who stayed on after work to watch these canings. He says that these girls were mostly in their late teens and eariy twenties,and states specifically that some of them enjoyed these canings on the boys' bare buttocks,and staring at the boys lined up in the cell who were all naked from the waist down. Must have been quite a scene!
July 31 2009, 5:05 PM
Hello there! I wish i had pics of females witnessing spankings of boys by men, but anyone who`s interested in this subject could read my true story at Malespank.net and look up my author name-student72 and the stry is called "Witnessed Humiliation." It is about an attractive female teacher I had that witnessed a paddling in the principal`s office,bare bottom. Please feel free to email me and tell me of similar incidents. There were alot of these witnessed paddlings that i will write more to Malespank later.ENJOY!
September 15 2011, 5:11 PM
I went to work at the age of 15 in a boys home run by nuns. the boys was aged 10 - 18.
On my first day went with one of the nuns to the room the boys were in to "collect" 10 16 yrolds and escort them to the bathrooms. when we got there the nun ordered them to undress, the boys just did as they were told and stripped completely naked. i'd seen my little brothers up till they was 10 but never developed boys befoer.
The boys then sat in the baths. another nun came in the baths wre in two rows of five. my nun and me went to the first bath and i was showed how to wash his hair. the nuns each did one boys hair. Iwas then showed how to wash his back with hard carbolic soap and a brush, then wash his chest and feet. the boy was then made to satnd up and i was showed how to wash his bum , pull his cheeks apart and wash in the crack and hole. I was so embarrassed and also a little excited.
The nun then got hold of his willy and washed it and pulled the skin back and i was showed how to wash that. we then worked our way down the line till eahcboy was bathed.
I was given a towel and the boys lined up while we dried them.
This went on everynght with a different group of ten boys each night.
In another post i might tell you what happened if they got a erection
Female accessories to spanking
September 20 2011, 2:25 PM
I was admitted to hospital when I was twelve years old for a routine appendicitis operation and during my pre op,which was attended by a senior and student nurse,one of the nurses commented that I had a very cute bottom.I was not only nervous but highly embarrrassed about them drawing attention to my bottom and they went on to ask if if my bottom had ever been spanked,to which I replied it had.
Female accessories to spanking
September 21 2011, 7:55 AM
In reply to Mary,I would have thought boys of up to eighteen would have been entitled to some privacy and would have suffered considerable embarrasssment and humiliation when being bathed by females.I too was bathed up to the age of sixteen and dried with a towel in the lounge where it was warm.I dreaded the sound of the door bell ringing as it was usual to be dried in front of female relatives or friends.