Hullo

I wonder if you people can help me.


A couple of years ago,I inherited some stuff from my late grandfather. He was a schools inspector in South West Scotland, up to 1974.


I believed he'd taken early retirement as a protest about local government reorganisation & the disappearance of historic counties. Now I'm beginning to wonder.


The reason is one of the books he left me. I looked at it a week or so back & saw it was connected with a school in Ayrshire.


What I'm wondering is if anyone out there knows about this place-sorry,I'm southern ENGLISH, so I'm in the dark. I wasn't even born until 1979, so I don't know much about this sort of punishment regime.


What I'm worrying about is what seem to be coded messages on the second page & why it only runs for one term?


Anybody help?


Thanks in anticipation



Lee

Hmmm,interesting.Sorry first page is too light to read
properly on screen,other entries are readable..
nothing spectacular though..any official stamps etc.?
as fabricating this sort of material is childs play.
Such books if genuine may be collectors items and in this case
evidence that C.P.Regs were definetley contravened as the number of slipper whaps is not entered.....for example.?

BOZO

There were several other schools mentioned in grandfather's collection of books-but they were simply "mentioned in dispatches" in his inspectorate reports-those are with Dumfries & Galloway Education Authority for museum use in the near future. In Gatehouse of Fleet, I think?

I don't recall seeing anything in his papers about methods of discipline or anything like it-there was the occasional "problem sorted" type of thing that he'd transcribed in narrative from the heads of schools he inspected, but no details of how the head had sorted it!

There were definitely no punishment books of any sort or loose papers in his book collection-which fetched a few bob through Amazon, about Scottish history and other matters, none of which was school or punishment connected.

Then I found this book, which I'd put to one side for use in my own job, as it was indexed & didn't seem to have much in it. I have to say the writing is not anyone's I know in the family & my grandfather lived alone, quite isolated, on the outskirts of Millisle for most of the last 12 years of his life and that's a long way, about 65 miles, from Maybole,too.

Basically, this would appear to be authentic-I'd better have another look and see if there's any further clues in the remaining pages-which I haven't done yet.

Lee

LEE


I reckon your grandfather took this for safe-keeping,mate!

Commutation of good hiding to hard spanking(the head's hand-writing is as bad as mine, if not worse)suggests some VERY unoffical stuff was going down, or rather something was coming down in the headmaster's study!

It looks like the rules of engagement are in pencil-why? & Why tell parents afterwards-I think this is all meant to be off the record.


Intriguing-hope you find some more!


Steve M

Hello Purpleaze, I think I can help you with some information. I toured the UK back in 75 and went to visit some of my grandmothers family for the first time.

I was introduced to a few people at a party at the local Pub where I was the guest of honor. My Grandmother came from Maybole in Scotland and her relatives live close to Robbie Burns Cottage in

I was talking about the local school in Maybole where my Grandmother went and something came up about some of the people at the Pub going to school there.

They mentioned a Deputy Headmistress they said was a real terror. I have a feeling this woman-Miss Cruikshank is the person you are asking about. I can't help you directly because I only have bits of information asising from conversations that night. The reason I remember is that I was asked about our school system in Australia and we were making comparisons between the two systems.

I distinctly remembering hearing this Deputy was a demon with the Tawse. I didn't know what a Tawse was at the time as it was a term I had never heard before and didn't ask because I felt embarrassed. I have since found out the meaning.

I found it hard to understand people because of their accents. My Grandmother lost a lot of her accent living here for as long as she did. In fact I was about 12 years old when I found out she wasn't an Aussie. I had grown up listening to her and I never realised she had an accent as strange as this may sound.

I am still in touch with my relations using Skype on the internet. I will be speaking to thenm shortly and will ask more about the school and Deputy mistress to confirm what I have told you so far. I don't want to say anything more until I get my facts straight for you.

Mike.

Hello Purpleaze, I think I can help you with some information. I toured the UK back in 75 and went to visit some of my grandmothers family for the first time.

I was introduced to a few people at a party at the local Pub where I was the guest of honor. My Grandmother came from Maybole in Scotland and her relatives live close to Robbie Burns Cottage in

I was talking about the local school in Maybole where my Grandmother went and something came up about some of the people at the Pub going to school there.

They mentioned a Deputy Headmistress they said was a real terror. I have a feeling this woman-Miss Cruikshank is the person you are asking about. I can't help you directly because I only have bits of information asising from conversations that night. The reason I remember is that I was asked about our school system in Australia and we were making comparisons between the two systems.

I distinctly remembering hearing this Deputy was a demon with the Tawse. I didn't know what a Tawse was at the time as it was a term I had never heard before and didn't ask because I felt embarrassed. I have since found out the meaning.

I found it hard to understand people because of their accents. My Grandmother lost a lot of her accent living here for as long as she did. In fact I was about 12 years old when I found out she wasn't an Aussie. I had grown up listening to her and I never realised she had an accent as strange as this may sound.

I am still in touch with my relations using Skype on the internet. I will be speaking to thenm shortly and will ask more about the school and Deputy mistress to confirm what I have told you so far. I don't want to say anything more until I get my facts straight for you.

Mike.

Purpleaze, Sorry for the double up of posts. I thought the post I wrote wasn't sent correctly.

I also left out the town where my relatives are. It is Alloway in Scotland. My apologies for leaving that out of the previous post.

Mike.

If proven to be true, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be, this perhaps will cause some of the many doubters out there to think again. From my own experiences a year or two earlier than this, and from experiences of friends, I have been long convinced that more punishments took place than anyone realised, or recorded. Also that in some cases the punishments were beyond the normal limits.
As a kid in the late 50s/early 60s, what were you going to do if you got, say, 12 strokes of the cane? Go home and tell your parents? - I think not! Complain to the school Governors? er - no. Social Services? - don't make me laugh.
There was an incident whilst I was at senior school which I still remember vividly. Our classroom had been cleared for repainting, and the desks had been stacked in one corner of the room.
This particular boy (about 14 at the time)had been caned by the headmaster a few weeks previously. Suddenly, he was not in school for a few days - he was in the same class as me, and a rumour went round about what had happened, and that he had been expelled. We were not allowed into the classroom for about another week. and it transpired that in what he saw as his revenge, he had taken the paintpot after school (he had been in detention) and painted 'F*ck off Baz*' on the newly sanded floor.
*Baz was the name we used for the headmaster - I have no idea of its origins, but it had nothing to do with his forename.
We decided to go round to his house, and the rumour was confirmed. In the course of the conversation, he said 'Yes, and the b*stard gave me twelve strokes as well'. He pulled down his pants and we counted nine separate marks. It may be that the other three were on top of exisiting marks, we couldn't tell, but it was quite clear that he had received more than the normal maximum of six.

Bozo, you say: "Sorry first page is too light to read
properly on screen".

Save it, shove it into a graphics package, turn contrast up and brightness down - it's perfectly legible then.

Sounds just like the junior school I attended - although that was 10 years earlier!

I agree with Steve M about the Grandfather holding onto the books. I think he knew he had something that would become a piece of history. .

And I also agree Falling Star who feels the books are authentic. This will put people like Lottanonsense in her place. We now have some evidence thanks to Purpleaze posting this valuable information for all to read.

I hope there is more to come when you have time to post again.

Miss Geraldine:-

I can see where you are coming from on this one, but you can’t pull the wool over my ears this time - I recognise your handwriting.

I would also like to make it clear, that any spankerees I have met and or played with have been consenting adults who fully understand their choices and have made a decision to meet me, at no time have I forced a spankeree into meeting me, after recent events it seems that some have decided that I am totally to blame. I am positive that the spankeree in question will confirm this given the opportunity. I have been a happy fantasy headmaster for a couple of years now and hope that this continues to be the case.

After another glance I am more ducious about the authenticity
of this item.
First the way the date entries are written in neat modern large capital
letters all in the same style suggests that possibly they were entered
all at the same time as opposed to over many months when differences
in the style-rushed-slow etc would be evident.
People did not write in this bold confident way in 1963 from many
poor documents I have seen.
Also it appears to be in felt tip pen which were almost non existent
in 1963.Even biros were practically unheard of for officialdom,
quill pen and scratchy black ink or fountain pen was much more likely.
I can remember the davent of felt tips at Primary School
which did not really get going until around 1969 onwards when they became available
in most school newsagents.

Also may I venture to suggest that the "erroneous"wrong date
with it scored out from the 14th to the 15th appears to be
somewhat suspect?It appears to have been added as a touch
of authenticity!Perhaps?

Bozo you are brilliant! I was absolutely convinced that these documents were genuine until I read your bits.

Not 100% certain but the questions Ive raised need to be addressed
I will leave you all to make up your own minds

A good post, as to its authenticity it is hard to say, whether genuine or not It raises some interesting questions.

Most official punishment books for that period were very simple records, detailing a name not always in full, offence not elaborated, number of strokes and some sort of abbreviation to where applied..

This document goes into considerably more, than the normal detail, and doesn’t present as any official type recording.

There seem to be an unusual number of beatings etc in a very short space of time. Over a ten week period 18 counts, some children’s name occurring twice `Assuming this school is a small rural primary school, with low numbers of attending children, this is excessive by any standard, we know many incidences where classroom discipline was never recorded, so there is a slight possibility it could be even higher, times that, over a twelve month period.

Scottish schools favoured the tawse or hand punishment, here we have a mixture slippers, strappings, spanking which might be assumed hand, rulers, most teachers favoured usually one implement, and most of these punishments seemed to metered out by the same two persons.

If genuine, looks like something untoward was going on, If that was the case why record events and evidence in such detail. There could well have been an official punishment book with limited entries for obvious reasons and this was a private recollection of the true picture, Teachers did have a tendency to write expanded notes and references to events in exercise books, for later reference to reports, staff meetings etc, was this was the case here.

Interesting to see if Mike can throw any light on events, I don’t think we should rush to condemn it as a fake as has happened so often in the past, and if genuine a real historical find.

K

Right-I see where Bozo's doubts come from.

All I would say is that most of what I handed over to the LEA was typewritten, often by the school secs. on behalf ot the HM's.

Most of their signed letters and memos were in turquoise inks like one entry here, to be fair, or purple. I'm not prepared to ruin this potential archive by trying to smudge it, although modern roller ink definitely will NOT smudge & fountain pen ink then would have, as my father, who started in the Civil Service in 1961, by the way, used to tell me.

Dad emigrated 3 years ago, so I can't wave this under his nose even if I thought he should see it. But I know it's not his writing, either.

OK-if you lot are prepared to admit that if it's modern ink ie mocked up recently it won't smudge or run at all, I'll do a damp-finger smudge just on the word policy on page one and post the scan of that asap tonight.

That should prove something & if we find it's a hoax because it doesn't smudge, at least only I look a prick online!

Might take me a little while as there are other bits in the archive I still need to look at,too.

Lee

I am sure that the perpetrator of this hoax, being the thoroughly decent chap that he is, will own up very soon.

In the meantime, another elaborate deception involving what is claimed to be an official document can be found in the ‘Parental consent’ thread (currently on Page 9) starting at message 6.

Right!

Here's the wet finger test result.







Looks as if a potential archive hasn't been ruined, just one word-but that doesn't look like any modern roller ink I've seen or used in the way it's run. They DO smudge, but only about 5 mins or so after you've written, I hope you'll all agree.

So, if this was faked, it must still be around 24 hours old at the least & wouldn't be doing this. Plus, if it was faked, to have smudged it, I would not only have had to scan this above one in just after the first was done and hope, I'd also have had to anticipated Bozo's precise doubts.

If I'd been clever enough to do that,I'd have smudged it in the first place, don't you think?

You are a bloody lot of cynical old gits-but maybe I'm going to find out more than you bargain for or perhaps I ought to know!



LEE


Lee

LEE

I am one of your cynical old gits-I was born that way.

I will say-I started Grammar around the time this was written,not sure Bozo is QUITE as old as me!

The scratchy fountain pens were all we could use until about the 3rd year ie 1966ish. Most masters used broader-knibbed fountain pens than in your book.

BUT I distinctly remember the Head of the Lower & Middle schools, plus the Head who left us in 1966 to be replaced by the Bastard(see other posts!)ALL used much thinner knibs. I remember this from the Headmaster's comments on reports which usually ranged from "Must stop playing the village idiot" to "An example to us all-an example to avoid at all costs".

These people also used liberal quantities of red ink-so they could leave mental red scars as well as physical red ones on your backside. And, as a congenitally untidy person, especially at that age, I can assure you that the ink in use in those days was usually from cartridge fountain pens, less so from standard school ink-wells.

And the cartridge ink was lesser quality-so it might indeed run harder than inkwell stuff, as my 1st & 2nd year exercise books would testify!!

Steve M

Lee

As with any forum there will always be doubters. Whether genuine or not you started a good interesting thread, it’s a shame you felt pressured and the need to go to such lengths to prove or disprove others doubts.

I hope that if this is a genuine document that your actions have not detracted from any value or historical interest, and that you eventually solve your mystery.

I for one would be interested to know what more you can find out. Hang onto what you have.

K

I had never realised that so many forensic scientists are interested in CP. What makes you all so qualified to comment on something you can't closely examine? Healthy scepticism is just that - healthy, and whilst I recognise that there have been many attempts by people to produce false evidence in these columns in the past, I don't think anyone on this thread is in a position to be judge jury and executioner until the document has been fully examined by an expert.

Well, tucked in the S tab on that book(which was obliterated), I just(10 mins ago) found this below-just thought with no letter on the tab, it hadn't been used ever-might be I was wrong:





I've even less knowledge of school(?) typewriters from 1963, so I hope someone can tell me just what WAS apparently going on? The memo is genuinely yellow with age, and the edges are just about ready to crumble.

It's also faded in part on the typeface,by the look of it and the signature is quite faint. Though I suppose, as this was loose paper, it might not have spent the full 40-odd years in the ledger book.

Hope someone can shed a forensic light on it!


And Miss frigging Cruikshank!!


Lee

Ketta, I read your post and am just replying to let you know I tried to contact my relations last night but they must have been out. I will try again later because it is 9 am my time here and it would be close to midnight in the UK. I believe we are nine hours in front so I'll try late this evening.

I feel a little awarkward asking because my relative is female. Sometimes her friend and her husband are there when I call and after speaking with Jean, her friends husband gets on and we talk about Soccer and Australian Rules football which we both shatre an interest in. And on that note if anyone is interested, I am a Manchester United supporter!

I think Ian went to the same school. In fact I am pretty sure he did, but I will ask him if he was when I call later. He might be able to tell me what I want to know.

I read some of the other replies to this post and I think along similar lines as you do. Although I live on the other side of the world and can't be much help but I have some thoughts about the other posts. I feel they are not quite correct in their thinking about the thread originally started by purpleaze.

I can tell you that as far as ink pens etc go, I was taught to write using the old ink wells and nib pens in third grade in 1962. When I changed schools in 1963-a State School, ball point pens, or Biro's as we called them then, were used in the classroom by teachers and students alike.

Perhaps this may shed some light on the impiments used for writing the document which were posted.

Mike.

As somebody who does have some training in forensic examination of documents - not a huge amount, but basic training is part of a research historians toolkit (ever since the Hitler's diary hoax), I have to say it is very hard to assess the veracity of a document by looking at images online.

What I can say by looking at this document is that if it is a fake, it's a good one.

My biggest concern in terms of veracity at this point would be the possibility it's a fake from the 1960s. That this was a tool in someone's elaborate fantasies back then.

I've just looked at the type written document, and it shows no obvious 'tells' for fakery. But again, that could just make it a good fake, or a 1960s era fake.

Actually, I have recently visited the school in question, and sighted their record of corporal punishment. I was also able to take away a sample of their corporal punishment boilerplate letter from a few years later - they still had some in storage, never used.

Details match.

Because of the way things thread here, my above message has become disconnected from the one I was replying to.

I was responding to this:

In the meantime, another elaborate deception involving what is claimed to be an official document can be found in the �Parental consent� thread (currently on Page 9) starting at message 6.

Dean, aren't you the person who writes about boys schools in Australia?

For Ketta:

Ketta, I still as yet have to make contact with my relatives but I do have 2 photos of a school in Maybole my Grandmother attended before migrating out here in 1909. It is the Village school and I am 99.999% sure my relatives in Scotland attend in the late fifties onwards.

I can't remember what the grades were as your system is different to ours but if it this is anything to go on, my Grandmother was 14 when she arrived in Australia with her family and had only left school either that year or the year before.

On the Maybole football club site there is a pic of my Great Grand father sitting in a team photo dated 1894 or thereabouts. Through the generous efforts of a member on this board, I received a copy of this photo. The member was Steve M and since then we have become friends. I recently sent him some Cd's I made of Billy Thorpe and the Aztecs who Steve likes.

I sent Steve copies of my photo's I took of the school in Scotland to show him what I think may be the school the post refers to. He may or may not be able to shed light on the question but I'm sure if there was some interest, he may put the photos onto the board for me as I haven't a clue how to post them.

I am trying to find out if my relations know the name of the Headmaster and the Deputy of the school. If they do, then the pics I have are those of the school.

Mike.

Minishant had two "Maisters" in the 82 years from 1857 to 1939, but then followed a quick succession of head teachers - Miss Annie Gallagher (1939-41), Alexander Adams (1941-51), Henry (Harry) McCulloch(1951-63) and Alfred Simpson (1963-67). Harry McCulloch saw the School into a new home in the actual village.


ALfred Simpson was the head 63-67 no mention of Olen Maclean as of the document dated II.X.1963

K

Here are Mike's pictures of Maybole.




It looks like a Victorian(era not state,Mike)build. The statue suggests it was RC?

Don't know if that's any help, Lee. The type-font on Miss Cruikshank's screed appears to be state-of-the-art 60's;I'd query whether it was likely to be in a village primary.

Though it's possible she did it at her home? I can't speak for Ayrshire,but my 1961 school report from South London has an embossed heading-but it's a general LCC education authority one NOT school-specific, so it's fairly certain this one is meant to be off the record.

Looking at some of the language in this & the head's book, I'd like to agree with Dean that it's a 60's fantasy,because it sounds pretty poisonous-hard spanking to me means bare bottoms, and why are district malefactors referred to-what does a blasted primary school have to do with them?

Anyway,I do know Wigtownshire & Kirkudbrightshire,just down the road from Ayr-in the former,at Creetown,the little local museum has a preserved school strap and I think a punishment book. That was a lot less used than Mr Owen MacLean's!


Steve M

KETTA

This doesn't appear to be the new school you've found in records. Mike's photos are as Victorian as my South London primary school,built 1893. That was 2-storey, this is one, but that's the only difference-I know that style of brickwork and pointing anywhere, and it isn't possible to reproduce it accurately, as I discovered working for English Heritage on Ancient Monuments from 1984-89.

It looks occupied in Mike's photos,which are 1974 I think,so I reckon there are TWO, or were two schools in Maybole.


Steve M

Steve/Mike
There seems to be two schools. Minishant primary, this was rural situated on a hill up from the village. There was a fire of some sort and the building was moved to the village.

Minishant Primary is listed on FR.

There is also a school at Maybole which Mike may be referring to which is in short distance of minishant called Cairn Primary if it is one of the same the names of staff of this school (below) don’t match any of Lee’s documents.

Olen Maclean or Dorothy Cruikshank don’t appear on the register of teachers for Scotland, bearing that they might not be registered required qualified, as some weren’t back then and registration was from 1964.

Steve/Mike

The RC school in Maybole is St Cuthbert's but the school does not match Mike's photo's, too modern, though there has been alot of rebuilding,

More likely to be Cairn school , from the photo's on the link. The porch on the door my have been replaced but the stonework looks similar but not a RC school

Mike you may recognise something from the link don't know quite what period you have an interest.

DOn't think either are connected to Lee's school Minishant

So who is Olen Maclean?

http://www.maybole.org/community/schools/cairn/classphotos2.htm

K

Well, I didn't expect there was any evidence left, but looks like Lee has found some.

There WAS another school in Minishant and it was closed down in 1965. My father was a journalist and he had the scoop of his life about what went on there.

But he couldn't use it. The boys in blue moved quicker and there was a police bigwig involved here, as well.

None of Lee's entries are from an official book. At this school, the ordinary punishment books were virtually blank, when retrieved in 1964. Actually, they weren't retrieved, my father stole them, ostensibly to prove what was going on at the school.

Dad then went undercover, posing as a concerned parent of a young delinquent girl in Ayr itself. Before long, somebody suggested he contact Owen MacLean or Dorothy Cruikshank at Minishant School if he wanted something done about it, on his behalf.

He did that, and received a letter from them, suggesting they would willingly give his daughter a good bare-bottomed caning on the premises at Minishant. The fee was £5,payable on the night.

Dad contacted the police, and one of the local men, DCS Tunnock, posed as the concerned parent,an officer junior of Dad's as the girl. They would have uncovered and exposed a major beating ring for money-only to discover that DCS Tunnock's Assistant Chief Constable was the guest spanker that evening. Talk about the black and blue economy!

Dad lost his story, but at least the school was rapidly closed, and the pupils transferred elsewhere pronto. The ACC was medically retired, on full pension.

That is why there's no record of MacLean & Cruikshank-struck from them, I shouldn't wonder. There was a lot of evidence found-the accounts Dorothy Cruikshank referred to were explicit,and there were thank-you letters about the beatings.

Just to make things even less likely to emerge,I think one of the thank-you letters was from the local laird, who was related to the Marquis of Bute! I'll have to ask Dad further details about that part-he may be 80, but his memory is undimmed on details.

All the evidence ws rapidly destroyed in 1965-and now it looks like Lee has shown it wasn't. I would have to guess, without knowing Lee's name, that his grandfather might just have been on to it & therefore his retirement might have been earlier than 1974?


Stewie

The climax of this hoax is expected tomorrow.

Now this look as if it was at least typed on a 1960s
typewrite BUT I still find the stilted phraseology suspect,
ordinary teachers probably didnt use elaborate phrases
like "remittence","Chastisment",etc etc,unless we are dealing
with some sort of a SM Nutcase who barely got away with it at the tail
end of the 1950s?
This language is more remiscent of Victoriana and even then most
likley if porno novels of the era on flogging...
however its not inconceivable that a adult teacher of the early 1960s
would speak like this if over 50 having been born around the 1890s or so....
but I doubt a swinging young one would.In 1963 out teachers were were mini dresses and holding up Beatles records to show the class!

Nice one mate.. should have got it in one, but then those detectives from Oz are pretty keen as well.

Did I ever mention there are a lot of civil servants in the wrong job. At least Iv'e had a good day at work playing on the computer and we don't still use typewriters.

PS keep watering those plants on your desk, the're looking rather sad, you never know who's watching

K

KETTA & BOZO


That sort of language WAS around in 1963-the sort of thing I learnt in English Grammar under EJ Macfarland at MGS. Clear, concise crystal-mark English in the Civil Service was unknown before 1979 at the earliest,as my files at English Heritage testified

If Stewie is to be believed, it's possible that verbose a language is or was a front to keep the details from the unsuspecting, the Police, or both.


Steve M

STEWIE

This is amazing!

My grandfather was Lee Tattonsonn, just like me. The surname can be traced back to 11th century & the Nordic/Viking Lords of the Isles.

Neither my grandfather or father ever mentioned this at all. But if YOUR father was nicknamed "Nose" because of his ferreting abilities as a newspaper man,then I did hear Grandad sing his praises once as a man to watch out for.


Lee

LEE

Dad was indeed called "Nose" for that reason!

Stan Olten-Ayrshire Gazette,Galloway Times,Kilmarnock Free Press, etc.


Stewie

Ketta, I have been to the link you posted and looked at the photo's which I have seen before on the net. I would like to point out some differences between my photo's which Steve M has kindly placed on the forum and the photos from your link.

The windows the children are in front of are higher than the windows of the school in my photo's. The second is the doorway behind the kids in the photo. It is a single door and the laignment is flush whereas, in my photo there are two doors which are on a 30 degree angle to the walls of the building.

Also, if you look closely at my photo's you will notice there are no drainage pipes on the brick walls of the school. This is another indication to me that it is not the same school.

I found your post very interesting in relation to another school which burned down. I had no knowledge of another school in the area. I do remember the school I took photo's of was not far from the Maybole Cemetery. I remember this because the largest monument in the cematary is on my families Vault there. I was told the vault has 10 spaces but only 4 people rest there. I remember the monument was pointed out to me when I was in the school grounds.

I don't think there was a fire at any stage in the school or it being moved because it is a brick building and I wouldn't think the Scots would be interested in moving a building brick by brick to move and rebuild on an other property like the English did with Captain Cook's Cottage which is situated in the Fitzroy Gardens in Melbourne.

I showed the photo's of Maybole to my Grandmother and she said nothing had changed in the 60 plus years since she left there. I had other photo's of Maybole for her interest because I knew she always wanted to go back but my Grandfather was an Australian and not interested in overseas travel.

This is why I ended up in Scotland-to take some photo's for my Grandmother and to also see where she came from. I used to kid her about being the only blemish on our family because she was an import. I had a good look around Maybole but I don't remember another school there.

I would suggest perhaps had there had been another school there which suffered a fire, it may have been raised to the ground or perhaps was in such a state it was not worthwile re-building it. I believe the nearest schools, Primary and Secondary were situated in Alloway but I am not 100% sure.

I hope this is of some help. I am still trying to contact my relatives at the moment but i have a feeling my distant cousin who is a little older that I is away seeing her daughter and son and their families. As soon as i know anything I will post it on the board.

Mike.

Ketta, I left out on my previous post that I feel you are correct in assuming the school to be Catholic. The statue has always interested me and there is a third photo I took of a well or fountain I was told was there for horses to drink from. There was a plaque on the trough written in either Gaelic or a langauge my Grandmother referred to as Brae I think she called it. A dialect of some sort. My Grandmother spoke it fluently but none of her 6 children; my father included took any interest in learning it.

I thought at the time I looked at the trough which still had water running from it that the town must have been very small and possibly children rode horses to school from the scattered houses and farms in the district, just as some kids in Australia did. I have family on the New South Wales/Victorian border who rode horses to school in the Fifties and Sixties.

This is another reason I feel that the school is not the one which burned down. I don't think they would have moved a horse trough to a new area, or would they? Perhaps they did if they wanted to keep the school authentic.

Ketta, do you know if the school is Heritage listed? I would imagine the UK would have some sort of group like our National Trust which preserves and protects old buildings from being demolished for historical purposes. Would you please advise me if this is so as I have an interest in Archetecture.

Just a little trivia here whilst on the subject of buildings.

One of our best builders in the 19th Centrury was a Scotsman from Forfashire in Scotland by the name of David Mitchell. Some of Mr Mitchell's designs include; St Patrick's Cathedral (RC) which is one of the biggest Cathedrals in the Southern Hemesphere, Scotts Church Cnr Russell and Collins Streest Melbourne which is in the CBD, Menzies Hotel and the Presbyterian Ladies College just to name some. Another landmark and tourist attraction is the Royal Exhibition Building in Carlton-another of Mr Mitchell's designs.

Mr Mitchell was the father of Helen Porter Mitchell who adorns the front of out $100 bill. Helen, an Opera Singer, aslo went by the name of Nelly Melba, who later became Dame Nelly.

I wonder if Forfashire is near Alloway or Maybole? Perhaps you may know Ketta.

Mike.

LEE

After a few(?) drinks with Dad, I found out more last night.

Your Grandfather was the man who first suspected there was something very dodgy at Minishant. He constantly wrote reports to the LEA, but they poo=pooed it all.

He met Dad by accident at Ayr Utd one day & told him about it. Dad was a crusading journalist and went with it. It was actually your Grandad who nicked the blank punishment books,because HE'D got that book you've inherited.

It stopped after one term for the simple reason that's when he acquired it as evidence. The local parents were never given details of how their children were punished & it was they who burnt the school down when they found out about what amounted to abuse.

This was another one the police didn't pursue, for obvious reasons. I don't think the one in Mike's photo is the same-that was never rebuilt, at least as a school.

There were rumours of serious abuse of the teenage victims of the beating circle, but Dad never thought it likely. He suspects, even now, that the ACC & the local laird were involved in their own little affair, and there were no young boys being trained in bum-banditry;after all, it was still illegal between anybody until 1967 or 68.

Your grandad left the LEA in 1966-fed up with his useless superiors. He took early retirement all right in 1974, but that was from his new job as racing tipster to the Daily Record.



Stewie

Its all an April Fools Joke!
Thanks for arranging it!