I have been doing some research on the net with regards the corporal punishment policies/regulations of some counties in southern states that have CP (i.e. paddling), and it is most interesting. Many of them are quite specific about particular matters, and others are notably non-specific. Most districts seem to have their school handbooks published on the net, and include their regulations for the administration of CP (paddling). They often cover details such as whether the administrator has to be of the same gender as the student being paddled. Most are silent on this aspect, implying that the administrator/student can be of either gender.

The following is an interesting example, taken from the Clarksville District Junior High School in Arkansas.



"CORPORAL PUNISHMENT
Act 333 of 1995 amends Arkansas Code Annotated 6-18-503 to clarify procedures for administration of corporal punishment by allowing the punishment to be administered in the presence of a school administrator or his/her designee. The designee must be a teacher or administrator employed by the school district.

Corporal punishment may be administered by any certified employee of the district to any pupil for disruptive or unmanageable conduct; insubordination; profane, violent, vulgar, or insulting language; or any other conduct that would tend to disrupt the educational process.

Act 968 of 1995 amends Arkansas Code Annotated 6-18-502 to include a provision that any employee who believes any action taken by the district to discipline a student referred by that employee does not follow the school district’s discipline policies may appeal under the district’s grievance procedure as provided under Arkansas Code Annotated 6-17-208.

The Board directs that corporal (physical) punishment, when deemed necessary, will be administered according to the following requirements:

1. Except for those acts of misconduct which are so antisocial or disruptive in nature as to shock the conscience, corporal punishment will not be administered unless an attempt has been made to modify the student’s behavior by some means other than corporal punishment and unless the student has been told that a continuation or repetition of his/her behavior may lead to corporal punishment.

2. Corporal punishment will be administered in the presence of at least one other administrator or teacher as a witness who will be advised in the presence of the student the reason for the punishment.

3. Corporal punishment will not be administered in the presence of other students, in a spirit of malice or anger, or excessively.

4. Corporal punishment will be administered to the lower posterior only.

5. Refusal to take corporal punishment may result in suspension.

6.When a teacher administers corporal punishment, he/she will notify the principal and will sign a written report stating the student’s name, the reason for the punishment, and the witness’s name.

7. The parent/guardian will be informed in writing of the reasons for the punishment and the name of the witness."



It clearly states that any "certified employee" may administer punishment (which we can assume is paddling) to "any pupil". So, no regulations on gender here. Apart from stating that punishment must not be "excessive", there is no maximum limit on number of swats. So these regulations are somewhat open to interpretation on what constitutes "excessive" paddling. However, these particular regulations are very specific about where on the students anatomy the paddling ahould be applied, and states specifically the "lower posterior". This is interesting, as most others I have come across just state that punishment shall be administered by paddling the buttocks. I wonder why, in Clarksville, they specify the precise area of the buttocks (i.e. lower part) to be the locus of the paddle's impact? Any suggestions?

http://panthernet.wsc.k12.ar.us/Admin/Handbooks/Jr_High06.htm

The lower buttocks are far better padded than the upper and much less likely to suffer serious injury during a paddling. Not all seem to understand this which is probably why specific directions are given.

The prohibition of excessive punishment is a cop out or is perhaps designed to cope with the very wide range of spankees and spankers. Specifying the size of the paddle and the maximum number of swats does not protect a small bony backside from the wrath of a large strong spanker. The same paddled used on a large muscular backside by a petite spanker might be inadequate.

In the USA gender discrimination is illegal and they seem happy with M/f punishments that would be unthinkable elsewhere.

Yes Ive been doin sum research 2 and found a lot about the south we werent taught at skool.
For instance the Cherokee Indians fought for the South and were big slave owners.
That freemason cult was hand in hand with the confederacy in the early days.
That a lot of conferedrate money was shipped 2 london.
they say that lincoln could have been assassinated by the knights of the golden circle a underground conferederate org.
Has anyone ever been to any of the massive USA state University campuses where all this paddling is supposed to take place?
They are so big it takes hours to cross them.
USA is basically a violent place-should thin paddlin is mainly a phenomonen
of afro american and the minorities rather than posh white suburbs
what do you think?

A quote from Colin Farrell on his corpun site suggests a possible answer:-

"Lonoke School District [DOC]
CP here must be administered not merely to the posterior but to the "lower posterior", which (if the administrator's aim with the paddle is really that accurate) is perhaps a good way of ensuring that the student will be reminded of the punishment when he or she sits down later on. A female employee must be present when girls are paddled. Refusal to submit to a paddling may result in suspension. See also this Oct 2005 news item."

I was Principal in a Mississippi High School, and I always required students to bend over and spread their legs apart for a paddling, both girls and boys. Many years experience taught me that the most effective, and safest part of the buttocks to apply the paddle is the lower, inner quarter. Requiring the student to either bend over and grab the seat of a low chair, or grab their ankles, with legs wide spread in both cases, is the most effective way to present the buttocks in such a way that the paddle swats can impact the lower, inner quartile area of both buttocks simultaneously. This position spreads the buttocks apart, opening the cleft, thus allowing the paddle to impact the widest area of buttock flesh. It also prevents the student clenching the buttocks together on impact, reducing the effectiveness of the swat.

A paddling properly administered in this position will result in the impacted area being confined to the lower, inner quarter, of both buttocks, from mid point horizontally, and mid point (of each buttock) vertically, extending into the inner sides of the cleft, but stopping just short of the anus/vulva in the case of girls and the anus/perineum in the case of boys. It also ensures that the student will be reminded of their paddling each time he, or she, sits down for the following few days, as the area forms the inner part of the "sit spot".

Did you prefer spanking boys or girls?

Or maybe both equally?

Or together?


You can sure have have fun with your fantasies, can't you?


Steve M

I think I'll take Lotta's usual position on Retired Principal. A one handed typist to be sure.

Was it Retired Principal who stood in the Hall of Mirrors and said "I'm surrounded by fools?"

Must have been if he thinks we are going to swallow that load of codswollop.

The Masked Avenger says; Somewhere in Mississippy they are missing their local idiot. Don't worry folks, he's tight here on the forum!

Human anatomy is different in Mississippi, apparently. Elsewhere, the buttocks overlie the rigid bones of the pelvis and are little affected by whether the legs are spread or not. In Mississippi the thigh bones connect directly to the base of the spine and the buttocks overlie the thigh bones. When the legs are spread so are the buttock cheeks.

I was unaware that I began a new thread under USA School Handbooks. While many regulations are found on the Corpun site I agree with Disciplinarian that it is worthwhile to peruse the internet to supplement that list. Winona's classroom discipline matrix in the link below is an example. They shouldn't call the South the Bible Belt but the Bible Paddle as in Whackerville, a site more amusing than enlightning but worth your time to google. Have you noticed there is such an outrage over male teachers spanking female bottoms but not the other way. Aren't women up to the task? Some post-pubescent boys may prefer being paddled by a fenale teacher, as strong as Maria Sharapova, as even nearsighted women may gather. One can only speculate where a woman's interest may lie. More's the pity.

http://www.winona.k12.mo.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php
?sectiondetailid=13&catfilter=8#showDoc

Least anyone else is unable to make the above link work without messy double pasting, here is a link direct to the disciplinary matrix American Way referes to. Scroll about half way down the page. Don't click on anything else on the page because the matrix will promptly disappear, never to return!

OFFENSE FIRST OFFENSE SECOND OFFENSE THIRD OFFENSE

Cursing, Obscene Language, Obscene Gestures or Pictures 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. 1 week in T.R. or Suspension

Littering Clean up on own time and conference Clean up and & 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. Clean up & 3 swats or 3 days in T.R.

Theft-Felony amount to be turned over to the Law Enforcement Restitution & 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. Restitution & 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. Restitution or Suspension

Lying to a Teacher 2 swats or 2 days in T.R 3 swats or 3 days in T.R 1 week in T.R. or Suspension

Threatening Staff/Students (verbal/written) or Death Threats 5 days Suspension Expulsion

Tobacco at School (possession/use) 1 swat or 1 day in T.R. 2 swat or 2 day in T.R. 3 swat or 3 day in T.R.

Cheating 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. 5 days in T.R.

Skipping School 2 swat or 2 days in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. 5 days in T.R. or OSS

Consistent Classroom Disruption 1 swat or 1 day in T.R. 2 swat or 2 day in T.R. 3 swat or 3 day in T.R.

Vandalism to School, Staff, or Student Property Restitution & 3 day suspension Restitution & 10 day suspension Expulsion

Disrespect, Verbal Abuse, and Disobedient 2 swats or 2 days in T.R 3 swats or 3 days in T.R 1 week in T.R. or Suspension

Weapons on Campus Expulsion ***

Arguing/Horseplay 2 swats or 2 days in T.R 3 swats or 3 days in T.R 1 week in T.R. or Suspension

Assaulting Student or Staff 10 day suspension ***

Bullying 10-30 days suspension 180 days suspension Expulsion

Courtship (public display of affection) Conference Parent Notification 2 swats or 2 days in T.R.

Consistently not doing work 1 swat or 1 day in T.R. 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R.

Disruptive speech or conduct 2 swats or 2 days in T.R 3 swats or 3 days in T.R 1 week in T.R. or Suspension

Drugs (including alcohol) Possession/under influence 10 days suspension
***
Drugs (including alcohol) sale or distribution 10 days suspension ***
Extortion 3 swats or 3 days suspension 10 day suspension Expulsion

Inappropriate Clothing Conference w/student & parent & change clothes 1 swat or 1 day in T.R.& change clothes 2 swat or 2 day in T.R.& change clothes

Fighting/Provoking a Fight or Threats to Fight 3 swats, or 3 days in T.R., 3 days suspension 5-10 days suspension or 1 week in T.R. Possible Expulsion-meet with BOE

Gambling Conference 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R.

Excessive Tardies 1 swat or 1 day in T.R. 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R.

False Alarms 5-10 days suspension Expulsion
Lasers 1 swat or 1 day in T.R. 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. 5 days in T.R.

Computer (misuse) 3 swats or 3 days T.R. 5 days T.R. & parents meet with BOE 5 days O.S.S.

Cell Phones (not allowed at school) Phone will be confiscated; parents must come to the office to pick up the phone. 2 swats or 2 days T.Phone will be confiscated; parents must come to the office to pick up the phone. 3 swats or 3 days T.R. Phone will be confiscated; parents must come to the office to pick up the phone. 3 days suspension

I-pods (not allowed at school) 2 swats or 2 days in T.R. & student picks up after school 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. & student picks up after school 3 swats or 3 days in T.R. & parent must pick up

I hope these observations, all to the best of my knowledge, may prove helpful for those unfamiliar with corporal punishment in the states.

Where corporal punishment is allowed has everything to do with achieving a consensus among the adults. Time passes so quickly that in a matter of years those schools employing corporal punishment become fewer and fewer. This makes it less likely that a parent can say we were paddle and it didn't do us any harm. Grandparents can still say that. Few larger urban schools still employ corporal punishment where some would say it would do the most good. As their population grows more cosmopolitan a regional custom becomes less acceptable and more likely to involve unwanted publicity and litigation. Public schools are more concern with order while Church related schools salvation so use a biblical rationale.

Every Catholic school in the USA bans corporal punishmnets. A policy formed by their bishops, perhaps to put their own house in order. Each district either permits or bans corporal punishment within its jurisdiction. A principal writes the rules and determine who administers the punishment. The district can be a county or a smaller entity. The state legislature and governor can, of course, ban, continue or reinstitute corporal punishment througout their state. They can choose to extend their authority even to private schools.

To consolidate Disciplinarians thread and my thread I am reposting. I'm Sorry. I'm new to this forum so I overlooked this previous thread.
The strangest "USA" school handbook is Eucon International College in Sapei in the Northern Mariana Islands of Micronesia. How does the K-12 Eucon International School handbook's corporal punishment policy apply to their college students? It could be a copy - paste job from one book to the other as Corpun suggests, but given their strictness, it wouldnt surprise me if they spanked them also. The schools are on the same campus. Some faculty members might teach in both schools. Where do you draw the line between a student paddled in June and in September in the same calendar year? Here are the handbooks. Corpun raised a good question. Would they? I say they would if they didn't put aside childish ways. Spare the rod spoil the child; paddle a bottom and save a soul all for the glory and honor of God. Only in America, that sweet land of liberty of thee I sing. Ouch!

http://www.eucon.edu/user/EIS%20Student%20Handbook.pdf

www.eucon.edu/College%20Student%20Handbook.pdf

Welcome to our happy, Happy Circle, American Way, and thank you very much for your recent contributions. They are most enlightening.

Thank you for your kind words. I feel honored. Now back to Winona, it has 50 students in each grade level. With just 183 high school students (first link) who would have thought they would devote so much ink to corporal punishment? I haven't seen anything quite like it. There is no report available on incidences of minor infractions but it has an enviable record for serious offenses as reported in the second link. The familiar CBS Video on Principal Anthony Price and Everman Jr High corresponds to the age and race of those most frquently paddled. Steve Halter and Nancy in the Principal Office outraged some and titilated others. The moral of the story is documentaries enlighten and Reality TV entertain. On a lighter note, I love the word "swats". It sounds like a fly swatter. The kids call them pops. Give them credit for onomatopoeia. The way my kids behave they would need seat cushions.

http://dese.mo.gov/directory/101105.html

http://dese.mo.gov/planning/profile/DI101105.html

http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=13331@ktvt.dayport.com

As regards Winona I think the fact that the Principal of the Elementary School has a Hotmail email address on her official details says it all!

Those concerned with pros or cons of CP or delight in the "spanking fetish" abound on the web but the web is bereft of the point of view of the teacher's concern. The link below is a troll free zone. I hope Corpun adds it to their next update because they have such a large readership.

Growing up outside the Bible belt in the sixties there was corporal punishment administered but to bring order not to save souls. Catholics didn't read the Bible but were concerned with good works but not the salvation of souls. The public schools were religiuosly diverse or secular so matters of faith didn't matter as much but there was still prayer in the school. Being sent to the office involved suspense because the Principal had options such as detention, calling the parents or CP but in high school. In the grammar school (but don't hold me to it) CP was preferred to a call to the parents. Alas, not true today. The theory of not hitting secondary school pupils, I think is the teacher, in order to have an impact, had to hit with a brutal impact, raising medical concerns or the student would resist either willfully or instinctively, thus requiring restraint.

The Irish Sisters of Mercy used the stick (maybe hearkening back to the cane) while the public schools used the strap or the paddle (maybe hearkening back to slavery). Children were rapped with the ruler (readily available) on the knuckles, more often boys than girls, in front of the class for talking, giggling or acting up but only whacked on the fully clothed bottom in the Principal's Office for fighting, talking back, cursing or leaving the classroom without permission. Such were the days when these were considered serious offenses. These kinds of offenses were less likely to occur among yesterday's girls and maybe still slightly less today. The Sisters of Mercy had different size sticks corresponding to the grade level and the girl's stick was a year behind. Where mercy and justice meet. I was a good boy or maybe a coward so I have no fist hand accounts.

http://teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com/

Instead of consuming time navigating the above site it might be worthwhile to read just these two entries below and then judge whether the site is worth further perusal. I'll leave it to the judgment of the readers of this estimable forum to see if they agree with me that it is on the up and up and is indeed the work of teachers and not trolls. These teachers seem to be a refreshing voice of moderation. We'll see if this is judged worthy of inclusion in Colin Farrell's next update of Corpun. Do you care to opine?

http://teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com/2008/09/

http://teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com/2008/10/

I've thought about it; Colin Farrell considered it worthy of inclusion. That's good enough for me to believe they're for real. I never seriously doubted it. Theyre anonymous because they fear recriminations in the land of the free. They dont have that spare the rod gibberish mentality. They are from the home of the brave. They have an uphill battle but wars are won battle by battle, school district by school district as George Washington proved. Im sure this estimable forum wishes these teachers from their former colonies well.

I trust that everyone will note that despite Jack referring to me as 'Happy Lurker' in the 'Girl caned at Bacons by the infamous Mr Ing' thread recently under no circumstances should the 'Happy Lurker' above be confused with Another_Lurker! If we get many more Lurkers in this estimable Forum I shall have to start using a border like this to avoid confusion

And for the record, sorry American Way, but I've just looked at the Teacherswhopaddle Blog you link to above and if that stuff's genuine I'm 100% certain every post here by our last wave of fun posters was absolutely true!

Seem like American teachers to me. Not sure about Michelle and Renee's stories. Could be true or they may like writing fiction?

http://teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com/2008/09/

http://teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com/2008/10

Hello from teacherswhopaddle from Renee the editor. This is just an open invitation for your community to send to Jenny, Wendy, Michelle, and myself your comments and suggestions.

Looking forwards to hearing from y'all!
Renee

I thought you Southern gals would have a good laugh watching this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ybVzMa1_8

Many readers of this estimable forum may cordially take exception with your entry below. All the best and keep up your good work.

Y'all come back now.

WORLD CORPORAL PUNISHMENT
The way c.p. has been or is carried out in other countries is very different from anything done in the U.S. Fact is, outside of the U.S. and a few private Canadian schools, corporal punishment means the cane or strap- not the paddle. But a recipient of a diatribe from the anti-c.p. crowd will never receive that disclaimer. They instead lump all c.p. together as the SAME thing.
The reality is that c.p. is different in severity in other countries. The cane and strap, as c.p. tools, are very different from school paddles. If you do not believe us, go to the aforementioned site and see for yourselves. The pictures of welts from the cane will surely turn your stomach. The cane was used in the U.S. early in our nations history due to the influence of British customs on the American colonists dating before the Revolutionary War. Later, the cane fell out of favor and the strap also would also disappear to be replaced by the paddle. Of all of these, the paddle is the least severe if used as recommended in our posts OUR MISSION and IMPLEMENTS AND TECHNIQUES.

In the states one would have to write lines multiple times promising that you won't repeat an offense just prior to the administration of corpotal punishment. Did anything like that happen with the cane? I'm a strong opponent to CP administered for biblical reasons but Corpun has a list of private schools with varying discipline codes. This one caught my eye from East Texas Christian Academy. It's like a double or nothing gane of chance.

LINES
Lines are given for procedure violations. The first offense will constituteup to twenty lines. The punishment should generally take fifteen to twenty minutes. If the lines are not turned in on the following day the twenty is doubled to forty. The parent is contacted by the teacher at this point. If the lines are still not done, student is reported to the Principal for swats.

American Way, very briefly, because lines are not what this estimable Forum is about. The students of the 'East Texas Christian Academy' have it very easy. Twenty or forty minutes worth of lines, not even worth talking about!

Lines is 2 or 3 hours worth of copying out chapters from text books as a teenager, knowing that random and unpredictable checks on accuracy would be made. Or as a little kid hour after hour copying out the lines in so called copy-books until you could write properly with your right hand because in my neck of the woods back in the 1940s you weren't allowed to be left handed.

In the States CP was often a custom of writing lines such as: "I was paddled for being (absent or tardy or smoking on school property or whatever) I will not commit this offense again." for an assigned number of times (50 or 100 or whatever). The presumption would be the student would know why they were being punished and with older youngsters there was an element of humiliation as well. It was more common of a punishment to copy pages during a detention and not being dismissed until completing it. Let me rephrase the question: "was anything like this common during the days of caning?" In a sense what I am asking is whether there was a compound punishment involving the coupling of some kind of non-corporal punishment (even other than lines) with corporal punishment?

Winona, MO was mentioned in a more recent thread from a resident of the Ozark area, the home of a popular American television program of yore, The Beverly Hillbilies (the Clampett family), it might be worth noting Winona has put their age appropriate handbooks in the download mode and have an office referral discipline form available in the second link. However old fashioned they may be they sure stay up with the times! Irrespective of the pros and cons of CP I think their standards of conduct leads to a safer environment for both the teachers and the students than schools in other areas. Of course, some may argue how safe your bottom is if youre the one who has to bring that note to the office but I would argue thats a price that the community should decide if its worth paying and the students choice when they decide to follow or break the rules. The teacherswhopaddle are abiding by the student code of conduct as reflected in their community. Their beliefs, however doomed their way of life as some view as our history unfolds, should be determined by their governing bodies and not from on high. I think the people of the United States would be more averse to having their laws changed because of the customs of other countries. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has on many occasions argued that continental laws have less and less bearing on our constitutional laws with the passing of time. Capital punishment and corporal punishment are just two cases in point and are common to both areas of the country. BTW, Im against capital punishment especially since exonerations but for other reasons but all out outside the scope of this esteem Forum. There is a big difference between wrongly paddled than wrongly executed. Until the balance of power shifts judicial restraint will prevail. IMHO the fear of litigation and not commonsense is the cause of the decline in the number of students paddled as well as the total incidences. Students arent behaving any better and that is not the reason for the decline for sure. The last posting from Renee, Jenny, Wendy and Michelle has something worth reading about involving the Supreme Court on their blogsite. They dont sound like Ellie Mae to me. The fewer and fewer districts that paddle will prevail until the Supreme Court changes or their respective communities can convince the Clampetts of the errors of their way. Teacherswhopaddle feel free to share this with others but DONT continue to link sites that sell paddles because nothing makes your worthy cause play into those who characterize you as obsessed with a fetish than that. I know thats not true and Im sure youre not getting a commission.

http://www.winona.k12.mo.us/education/components/docmgr/default.php?sectiondetailid=1258&fileitem=113&catfilter=58

http://www.winona.k12.mo.us/education/sctemp/1dc26a50f3dd0eefdc7273a28a75b502/1235219689/Office_Referral.pdf

Discipline Matrix seems to be the key words in school handbooks today. The offenses and penalties differ from MO (Winona) to TX (Maud) and so does misbehavior. The matrix seems to me to be fair and clear. Maud's baseball coach pictured in the back row right in the second link is in charge of discipline; quite appropriate for the one who swings the bat on the field swings the paddle in the office or delegates it to someone. It seems peculiar to me that corporal punishment is considered less of a deterrent than calling the parents; it makes you wonder how strict the parents must be. In the Arkansas teachers chat board, they are currently talking about how paddling is working this month; and what is the best ratio between tardiness and swats recommended for curbing it. These matrices must be an ongoing project. There is something to be said for trial and error. It may be on its way out but they are very upfront or may I say very in your face about it; and Im sure not in a hurry to change. I assume many readers of this esteem Forum have had it up to here with my postings on this thread so I will make everyone happy and mercifully give it a rest. Suffice it to note corporal punishment is still in vogue 220,000 incidences on every grade level and for both genders and is still very much debated in half the states. There are passionate views (Paula Fowle) on both sides and I suspect barring a federal ban it will like the proverbial pendulum, or paddle in this case, swinging both ways. My sense of things, borrowing a baseball metaphor, is they won't get called out looking.


http://www.maud.esc8.net/Handbooks/MS-HS/Discipline%20Matrix%20A%20%20final%20js.htm


http://www.maud.esc8.net/BCL%20pages%2007_08/maud_mar.pdf


teachers.net/states/ar/topic497/10.16.07.16.23.09.html - 63k

I have just spent some time reading American Way's beloved "teacherswhopaddle" blog. I can only say I am thoroughly disgusted.

First of all it reeks of right wing conservative ideology. That makes it wrong in my mind right from the start. I also got a whiff of Orwellian Double Speak. But that just goes hand in hand with right wingers.

Second is their lack of honesty, i.e. "we hate to use the paddle". Bwahahahahaha! What a crock of rubbish. Anybody with half a brain knows that if you hate doing something, you don't do it. It was my experience growing up that teachers who didn't like CP didn't use it. Period. Also I didn't see any instance of these teachers ever trying to find out "WHY" a student was acting out or breaking rules. They seem to have the old fashioned idea that 'boys will be boys' and there is no need to find out why a kid might be mis-behaving. Just beat their bums and send them back to class. That certainly relieves them of the obligation of finding out what is really wrong.

Third is the way they censor the comments or rebuttals to their blog. This is typical right wing conservative thinking ...i.e. "don't send us any anti cp essays" we don't have time for them.

Although they don't mention religion, their ideology stinks from it and I just can't go along with people who actually believe everything started six thousand years ago in a garden with a talking snake and an apple tree. Not to mention that every religious person I have met is completely saturated in hypocrisy.

Last but not least, I wouldn't want someone with their spelling, grammar, and proof reading skills teaching my children.

Bob T their writing skills can never compete with yours. They do have guidance counselors in school, but bending the rules, when rules are written that children are capable of following, has done society little good. If you are implying they are nut cases, I respectfully disagree, but if you are implying they are deriving venereal pleasures, which I hope you are not, you can understand why they wouldn't use their forum to promote such baloney. Parents and teachers have been known to do things that are unpleasant both ways.

What they are mostly promoting is laziness and fear mongering. The laziness comes from wanting to deal with mis-behavior problems with beatings. Also, whether you and the blog owners admit it, schools who use CP are magnets for sadistic, child abusing pedophiles.

The fear mongering is what all conservatives and fundamentalists use to keep people of lower intelligence in line. It's their only line of defense when logic defeats them at every turn.

Take for example one of your links takes us to their faux future in which congress has banned SCP and 3 years later we have the beginnings of Armageddon. LOL! OH! Dear God! What shall we do??? We better not vote out SCP or we will all perish!

After all why shouldn't people who believe in the whole talking snake in the apple tree swallow another load of codswallop.

Just look what the last eight years of fear mongering has brought us. A world recession like no other.

WHY TWP DOES NOT DIRECTLY POST COMMENTS and HOW TO SEND US YOUR COMMENTS & WENDYS MISTAKE
February 21, 2009 by teacherswhopaddle
MEMO TO Sheryl and AustinTXGal of itdawnedonme.wordpress.com: Obviously, yall did not like our invitation -Which you mistakenly referred to as an advertisement- but thats o.k. We just hope your readers are more open minded -They would find TWP a moderate perspective on the difficult issue of c.p.. Finally, as to promoting violence and disrespectful, -ARE YOU KIDDING? Anyone that has read our posts knows how we feel about paddling -WE HATE IT but prefer it to suspending students! As to disrespect -that is a two way street -When someone who has never met us casts accusations about us, we are under no obligation to post their anti-c.p. term paper!

Finally, Ms. A.T.Gal, we at TWP are announcing a new TWP policy: Anyone who uses another blog or web site to slander, trash, or lie about this blog or its contributors will be confronted, challenged, and called out. Same goes for militant anti-c.p. blogs as well. We are not wall flowers and will not remain silent!

MEMO TO ALL: After receiving feedback from readers and careful reconsideration by TWP, we have decided NOT to carry a link to a supplier/producer of paddles. Fact is -we get nothing for it and -the grief we got for such links in the past just does not make it worth our while. Instead, a future post will have an editorial on what is and is not an appropriate paddle for use in a school setting. Stay tuned!

I rest my case. Case closed. As my friends in the UK like to say, "the truth will always out".

When confronted with inconvenient facts you in this case (for some inexplicable reason) copy and paste something I had already read on TWP. I don't see how it addresses my last reply to this thread or the subject at hand.

I am not surprised. I've come to expect it from right wingers and fundamentalists. Once your fear mongering has been exposed, you have nothing left because your position is insupportable without it.

Hmmm. I have no direct knowledge of educational policies and practice in the USA, and so there's nothing I can usefully say about the particular discussion above. What I can say, though, is that in the UK (until the abolition of CP in both private and state-run schools) there was very little connection between religious fundamentalism and the use of physical punishment. There was some connection between certain types of Catholic education and physical punishment (and, indeed, fairly serious child abuse); but this does appear to have been more common in the Republic of Ireland, with its majority Catholic population, than in the UK.

I'd also like to challenge, once again, the assertion:

Every teacher who used corporal punishment enjoyed doing so. That's the only reason they used it.

(I paraphrase, but not much.) Now I have no doubt that this was true of some teachers. But to say that it was true of all of them, or even of a large majority, seems to me to be completely unjustified, certainly in the UK. Though perhaps the proponents (eg Bob T) don't really intend to make such a sweeping generalisation?

Or maybe they do?

(Yes, I know the thread is about the southern USA; but I haven't noticed any regional or even national qualifications to the assertions given in the posts above.)

Alan, there is a difference between the UK and the colonies. You abolished SCP nationwide. The US is abolishing it on a state by state basis. The southern states and the states that still allow SCP are basically wight wing conservative and fundamentalist christian. You can look at the states who voted for McCain in the last election and most of them are states that still use SCP. It's a low brow mentality that thankfully the majority of our citizens have rejected.

The idea that teachers who don't want to use CP are using it anyway is laughable. Their (TWP) little story about the one teachers first use of CP makes me sick. It seems the moral of the story is that once she got that first one out of the way it will get easier for her. Perhaps. But I am disappointed in the teacher because she succumbed to peer pressure. I still say that teachers who don't like SCP don't use it.

These teachers who like using CP always come up with the same tired old argument, "if we can't paddle them, we will have to kick them out of school". What a crock of rubbish. Obviously that is not true otherwise all the schools that have abolished SCP would be suspending or expelling as many students as the schools who use CP paddle each year. Can you imagine 300+ students being suspended or expelled each year? They wouldn't do it even if they could. If I am not mistaken they get there budget based on how many students are attending. That is why they make such a big deal out truancy and tardiness.

Looking at the school regulations for the TX school I can't help but notice that the first thing they do for most offenses is paddle. Why? That is a rhetorical question. I already know why. Because they are lazy and they like paddling their students.

Bob T - February 18th. I would debate the issue with you but you are about 3 years too late. I have already debated and won every argument put forth on this forum. I no longer care enough to bother with you. QED.

Your last posts assertion was a new one on me and I have heard every argument against corporal punishment, Can you imagine 300+ students being suspended or expelled each year? They wouldn't do it even if they could. If I am not mistaken they get there budget based on how many students are attending. That is why they make such a big deal out truancy and tardiness. Corporal punishment for tardiness is the alternative to corporal punishment and Im sure that suspended students would be counted as students. I have read many posts that have expressed stronger feelings without the need of editing unless it was edited for spelling or grammar purposes, admittedly not my strong suit. Don't let that 6,000 year old talking snake get the better of you. Thats a good one too.

I guess you don't have any further defense so I am done here.

http://teachers.net/states/ar/topic497/5.28.07.21.16.36.html

My daughter is a senior in college and we discussed this incident and she said that students that went to her school in nearby CP states told her stories of getting licks through middle school but she said the one and only friend she knew got paddled in high school was for smoking and got paddled by women never men because they can get off on it. I asked her if the girl still smoked and she said of course shes from North Carolina (for those who may not know its the tobacco state). Smoking disgusts her and would never let her smoke around her. There are no flies on her; she is a psychology major, trying to figure herself, her brother and her folks out as well. I had her youtube the Booneville paddling scene and she said the Principal was a sicko. My wife and I were on the same page about the Principal giving us the creeps and she said the office scene where she was given the option with her holding the paddle to find out how much ot would hurt was unprofessional. I thought the letter was for real and they said get real. My wife can write, unlike me, and she said its a man style and my daughter had words that the subscription manager would censor for the author of the letter. Now I'm not so sure about the letter. What do members of this esteem Forum think about the Principal and the author? Is the Principal a sicko and is the letter real or fantasy? My daughter said of the VP in the below story people pay for lap dances from girls that age. I didnt follow up!!!

Last week I was late for my Senior English class where I have a B
average so I am doing well in the class I got to talking to one of my
friends and before I knew it the bell had rung and I was now
considered tardy. I walked in and was told I was late and I had to go
to the office for pink slip to be accepted back in class. I went to
the office told the VP what had happen. After being lectured for five
minuets and how in the real working world tardiness can cost me my
job. I was then asked what did I think should be my punishment? Loss
of a grade, detention, or what I knew was coming a quick remedy with
his wooden paddle? I told him how about just letting me back in class
and since we only had about two weeks of school and that I was a
senior could I have a pass on this one. I will be 18 years old July
19th could I not be treated like an adult on this one? After being
told I was smarting off to him and I was now not only getting the
three licks for being tardy but he did not like my tone in voice that
I was still a child, seniors could still could be spanked and I had
earned additional 3 licks for talking down to him. He had me to sit in
the office while he called my mom at work to inform her of the
paddling I would be receiving. My parents always had signed giving
permission for corporal punishment. I went into the office with one of
the teachers who was called in as a witness. I had to sign a form
stating I understood why I was getting the Paddling. I asked if I had
to sign it or could under protest not sign it. I was then told If I
did not want another paddling later in the week I better sign it NOW.
I went ahead and signed the sheet. I was told what I had done and then
asked if I understood what was going to take place? I said I did. I
was made to bend over his desk and to keep my head straight and not to
move. He told me to stare at the pencil sharpener on wall. I was then
told to place my feet shoulder length. I was then told to keep my rear
end up that he did not want to hit me in the wrong area. With about
three taps to my rear I felt six of the most worst stings of my life.
Each whack with that paddled hurt and made the loudest noise each
time I was struck. This done because I was like five minuets late.
When I got my paddling over with and because I did cry for awhile
because it did hurt and I was embarrased getting whacked on my butt, I
was now 25 minuets late for the next class. I asked what do I do now
oh here your excused slip will get you in class.

American Way,

You may wish to get yourself a Network54 log-in. This would avoid the delay to the appearance on the board of your messages that sometimes occurs.

The piece you quote has been written by a man. As a dancer he is unreliable: at first he was five minuets late and then twenty-five minuets late.

Good day, Big John Peacehaven. It is not my habit to take issue with members of the upper echelon of this estimable Forum such as yourself. However, I am puzzled by your response to American Way above, when you say:

The piece you quote has been written by a man.

I am in full agreement with you that the item quoted is fiction from beginning to end, or at least I certainly hope that it is! However The Gender Genie is of the opinion that the item was written by a female, with a female/male score of 874/522

Do you have personal knowledge of the author, and are his lamentable dancing abilities offset by his female impersonation abilities, at least insofar as his literary output is concerned?

I will be sending the proof very soon.

Thank you Big John Peacehaven, you have entirely stilled my nagging doubts!

Mimi, I share the same reservations when it comes to the possible sexual exploitation of older minors. You are not a zealot by far as shown by your nuanced position. I've expressed some of these same concerns in my corpun update about the safeguards in handbooks being less protective than they could be and how the target of CP (bottom or hand) matters with gender it is not a bad idea as in Malaysia. He put the Running List, too elaborate of a ruse to not be true, at the behest of the Subscription Manager. I think some of the offenses in the Running List could be resolved without CP in Australia, in the disciplinary matrices found in USA handbooks and even more so in Malaysia. Standards of strictness and disciplinary methods vary from culture to culture. Using CP may reasonably seem by opponents like fighting fire with fire but in a war the only language understood between nations is force, unfortunately that is what our classrooms have become.

Mimi, you play an important and commendable role in being a kind of ombudsman to this estimable Forum. Reasonable skepticism is a good thing but IMHO, as pure as your motives seem to be, you've set the bar very hard for yourself in trying to "out" DD. I prefer to sit back and suspend judgment and learn from a forum including DD things I wouldn't learn anywhere else. Mimi I share your outrage at the harmful things DD has admitted doing to boys, such as bare bottom spankings, and his rationalizations of then was then and now is now, doesn't settle well with me. I sat on a board of directors of a secondary school as a treasurer and did not have hire or fire authority but knew those who did and they would never give him the benefit of the doubt to put him in the position of DHM if they knew what he admits doing. If you're convinced that he is endangering boys then your efforts to "out" him are understandably urgent but if it's fantasy posting it's not worth the effort.

I think the 18 year old girl story could have unfortunately been true but perhaps more likely written by a man wishing to be the VP, not unlike those who claim DD wishes to be a DHM or a so-called Megan Lowry essay posted a while back.

Texas 49,197 Mississippi 7.5%
Mississippi 38,131 Arkansas 4.7%
Alabama 33,716 Alabama 4.5%
Arkansas 22,314 Oklahoma 2.3%
Georgia 18,249 Louisiana 1.7%
Tennessee 14,868 Tennessee 1.5%
Oklahoma 14,828 Georgia 1.1%
Louisiana 11,080 Texas 1.1%
Florida 7,185 Missouri 0.6%
Missouri 5,129 Florida 0.3%

To help to explain these numbers previously posted it's worth noting that the right column is for the absolute numbers and the right the percentages. In raw numbers MS declined from 50,000 to 38,000 since 1997/1998. In raw numbers Texas paddles more students but has a greater population so they only paddles 1.1%. As Texas becomes more urban and cosmopolitan CP becomes prohbited in more and more counties. There are about 500,000 kids in MS so that's how you come up with a decline from 10% ro 7.5% in a decade. Previously I referenced Arkansas teachers chat board but Mississippi is getting into it now. There are a lot of kids that are either laid back or cant tell time as indicated by the number of infraction surrounding being tardy. Its worth noting the girls are more on the receiving end on that note and what percentage of a student body of 1800 students are hit. This years national figures will be coming out in August and I'm sure fewer than 223,000 last year.

http://teachers.net/states/ar/topic497/5.28.07.21.16.36.html

http://teachers.net/states/ms/topic700/5.18.09.14.14.12.html

Congratulations to "American Way" the first person since the invention of the internet to use the word "onomatopoeia" on a forum.

I hope the owners of this forum recognise his achievement and make him an honorary life member of this very exclusive and prestigious site.

The girls in Everman Junior High Schoool video seem not to mind having pops so they can go home and do what they want as opposed to sitting around bored in detention. Pop is a great example of onomatopoeia. HRH is this the example you are referring to? I'm deeply moved that mimi and you have now nominated me but I still feel like a newbie unworthy of such an honor and I hope that mimi hasn't changed her mind and withdraw her nomination since my recent more conciliatory correspondences with another honorary member that adds something unique to this esteem Forum, however you may view him. On a lighter note, These paddle pops are not to be confused with the popping noise when paddle meets jeans in that video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_Pop

Little Rock Central High School Arkansas is a National Historic Site in the history of our Civil Rights Movement. Corpun 15215 noted: "I would prefer a paddling over a suspension on my record," said Jacob Jones, a freshman at Little Rock's Central High School, where corporal punishment is not practiced. There is no disciplinary code quite like it. Jacob, I feel for you kid. I would prefer three licks with a paddle than to be made to read your entire student handbook or to have them throw that handbook at me.

http://www.lrsd.org/studenthandbook/lrsd_student_handbook_2008-09.pdf

http://arkedu.state.ar.us/commemos/static/fy9899/289.html

What school applies the paddle more than any school in America as a proportion of a school population? That is a tough question because the Civil Rights Data is more reliable than the State Data and few states publish their data and the few that do crunch their numbers and must not look at them when they send it to the cental data base. That being said the feds haven't the 2007/08 data but Arkansas does.

The Civil Rights data 2006/07 indicate that of the 560 girls 90 were paddled and of the 520 boys 150 were paddled. Now we look at the State data for 2007/08 that does not do a gender breakdown in the ADE Cycle 7 Data Base. From the Civil Rights data 240 were paddled. In the ensuing year there were 730 paddling incidences. It wouldn't be surprising if there would be 110 additional padddlings given among the 90 gitls who were paddled. None got less than Booneville's three. OUCH.

Searcy is more then 85% white. Sorry Jeff Charles and Paula Flowe there doesn't seem like there were a lot of Bubbas beating little Black girls on their bathing suit areas.

I hear so much about Bacon School but I wonder if Searcy High School would be up there?

ADE Cycle 7 Data Base

Civil Rights Data

15. Corporal punishment may be used as a disciplinary tool for cause following warnings that the
misbehavior will not be tolerated. In the event corporal punishment becomes necessary, the punishment shall be
administered as follows:
a. The parents or guardians if so desired may have on file in the school Principals office a statement to the fact that
they do not wish to have their student disciplined by corporal punishment.

b. Corporal punishment will be administered in the presence of at least one other certified school employee to serve
as a witness and be present when the student is advised of the reason for the punishment. The student should be
allowed time to respond to the disciplinary infraction charge and then the appropriate action should be taken.

c. Corporal punishment will not be administered in the presence of other students, or in the spirit of malice or anger,
nor will it be excessive. Corporal punishment shall be limited to no more than three (3) licks.

d. The certified employee administering corporal punishment shall prepare a written report to be submitted to the
school Principal, stating the reasons for the punishment and the name of the witness.

e. The parents or guardians shall be informed in writing or by a personal telephone call that their child has been
disciplined by corporal punishment. They will be informed of the reasons for administering corporal punishment
and the name of the certified employee who witnessed the punishment. In the event the teacher sees a problem
developing, the teacher should invite the parent or guardian in for a parent-teacher conference.

f. Refusal to accept corporal punishment will result in suspension.

Interesting to think , though , that in the mid 70's 3 swats , provided it was done by the class teacher , not administrator, and outside the classroom ( hallway), didn't even merit recording as a paddling in some States!As my friend Jxxxxx said - 'just a warning'!!

prof n you have astutely noted that States have to get their act together concerning regulation of CP. Louisiana has the most explicit guidelines (court document). The Setliffs lost their IMHO extortion through a reversal of fortune when the school appealed. They almost made a bundle didn't they? Three swats can be heard in Washington DC and Baton Rogue LA and I agree it is silly. The school has to CYA for every swat there. The Webster Parish School Board is typical of Louisiana. The state allows six which you rarely see but maybe it hearkens back to six of the best in the UK.

Webster Parish School Board CP policy

Justice Served Judgment Reversed

Hi, American way, I have come across quite a few posts on similar forums to this one who say that it was quite common in American schools at least prior to the sixties and sometimes later for boys to be spanked pants down, that is bare from waist down, by teachers in front of mixed class.
How true or common was this?
Most of these posts say that this mostly happened in elementry schools, that is up to about ten years old or so, though a very few say that it also happened to them in high school. Many of these posts are by women who say that they saw boys spanked like that in their class as girls. Could you confirm this for us here?
Of course girls were never spanked like that, that is bared, in class, at least I never saw a single post which said they did.