I have to points which I would like to put forward for discussion. The topics are not related but I thought I would save some members time by posting the two topics together.

First topic revolves around being sent to the Head.

Question. What do you think teachers hope to get out of sending a student to the Headmaster/Headmistress for a classroom violation or disciplinary matter?

Was it a case of putting the matter into the too hard basket and letting someone else deal with the problem?

Was it their inept management of a student which caused them to save face by sending them off to the office?

Or perhaps they thought that the Head belted/caned harder than they did?

Second Issue is of Homework.

How many of us were belted or caned for not handing in Homework?

What purpose did homework serve? Study or extra workload?


Is it because there wasn't enough hours in the day to teach lessons sufficiently so teachers awarded homework?

Was it a case of the teacher thinking, "well I had to do it in my day so they can do it too?" The what goes around, comes around syndrome.

Why were we given CP for not completing our homework?

Should theachers have been the ones on the receiving end of CP for not doing their job in the classroom in the first place?

I realise the latter sound ridiculous but in my mind the eductation department has a lot to answer for.

Here are some facts to help decide upon. This relates to Australia however, there may be some similarity to the UK.

Teachers work for 9.am to 3.30 pm. The have four term braeks per year plus 5 public holidays, excluding Good Friday and Easter Monday. The scolastic year is from late January, usually after Australia day through to around the third week in December.

There is the argument that teachers have to bring home work to correct. Why then do they have correction days? Teachers are not poorly paid compared to other froms of employment in this country. Most people working in industry do not have the benefits teachers have. We get 4 weeks leave per year. In some industries people are expected to work public holidays, extra hours with no overtime paid (I was in this catagory) and shiftwork with no shift allowances. Workers rights are at an all time low thanks to the Liberal Government exploiting the Industrial Relation Laws.

I have 3 teachers in my family and I taught Apprentice Cooks and also trained staff in the workplace having the relavent qualifications to do so.
I consider my job just as difficult but I get it done on time without having to resort to giving homework. I could imagine the response I would get if I had told students to make a Peach Melba for homework. I'd be told to get well and truly continentaled.

MIKE

There is a girl at work I think would benefit from being continentaled by me!

I might just try that phrase one day-that's worth honorary membership alone!

On the post-I got 10 O levels, 2 A Levels & 1 S level(same qualis as Mick Jagger, by the way) & I did about one homework in 100 at home!

I think the in-class test is much better for learning, cos it simulates exam conditions-you don't have the flamin' text-books in the exam hall, like you did at home. Or parents to help you, either!

I'd agree about homework being a fob-off from lazy teachers-but it was always detention at my school, never CP, even for copyists who copied someone elses errors!

As for being sent to the Head, I suspect it developed here around 1960-ish, from retired HM George's posts-a lot of schools at that point left CP,or at least the CANE to the head or deputy & therefore class teachers were no longer able to deal with serious offences like catching you smoking in the loo.

And, of course, they also didn't fancy imposing CP themselves on some kids, like me, who would have said no, at least, even in those days.



Steve M

Paul
You're wrong in thinking you could have got away with 'saying no' to the cane back in the old days. It was a similar situation to the police nowadays - who says no, when they are about to be arrested?
The misconception that you would have thought the same way then as kids do now - with all the consequences they know would fall on any teacher or even headmaster if he forced a boy down and whacked him. That wasn't a luxury we had, Steve! You did as you were told because it was too awful to contemplate 'saying no'!
I think the easy going 1960s started this business of kids knowing their rights. Before that we had none to know about and, just as you wouldn't say no to a policeman (and certainly not one from the Essex Police- unless you were Brahms and Liszt), you would have meekly gone along to the Big man's study and met your fate - OR ELSE!

DANNY

I reckon we turned the corner, or not, somewhere around 66-67,my 4th year. I agree with you that kids would NOT have disobeyed prior to that, my generation included.

But at MGS,we got ahead of the game re Daniel Cohn-Bendit,Red Rudi etc & challenged authority. Don't know why, even know, but I suspect it was because the new Head(joined Jan 66)was a total animal & MENTAL sadist.

Mind you, I still took my only caning in March 67 without a protest from him-for smoking on the bus on the way home from school-I suppose even then, we accepted if you can't do the time,don't do the crime, or its' scholastic equivalent!


Steve M

Sorry for addressing my piece to 'Paul', Steve, It seems I'm getting way past my sell-by date!

DANNY

Don't worry, mate, as long as you don't wake up & find yourself in the Jamaican Police Commission.

That's what I'd call REALLY confused.com!



Steve M

Any minute now!

Mike

Senior school - very few teachers had a cane in their classroom, pupils got sent to the heads office, asked for the cane, punishment book, returned and dealt with there and then or after class, I think many of the teachers hoped the head would save them the bother, which of course he often did, by asking the unfortunates to return after school, whereby no doubt, got dealt with more severely. It was the same procedure for girls with the exception they were dealt with by a female member of staff or deputy head (female), by some miracle or charm, the only school I never came unstuck, and left unscathed.

Boarding school –. Rather than disrupted lessons it was a case of ‘out of my class’ stand around like a spare part till after class ended, then escorted to the house head to be dealt with. It was the house head that made the decision whether a pupil was dealt with by the headmistress, usually for the more serious transgressions.


Senior school - Detention was the punishment for forgotten or failing homework.
My dad’s policy you only go out in the evening, once you’ve done your homework, (teacher mentality), Yeh Yeh, done it, only I hadn’t , coped a detention the following day, 35mins wasn’t a bad result for an evening out . Teachers took it in turn to take detention classes, to my horror guess who was supervising this one. no comment passed the lips , other than go and sit down , we had a very professional understanding, didn’t stop the earache once I got back home or the threat of being kept in for lying.

As for colditz - compulsory supervised prep for two hours, after tea., we didn’t need prep or homework, made school life longer then the average man working day.

Regarding your query another post , why you see boarders wearing uniform on the weekend.

Most boarding schools had/have compulsory sport every afternoon and make up classroom time with Saturday mornings lessons. To really encroach on what little spare time you had, detentions were held Saturday afternoons. It was also a requirement to wear uniform for church on Sunday, this kind of timetable is still practiced in some of our boarding schools today.

My daughter- in -law a teacher, as is one of my ex school friend, both say how much time they spend marking, planning etc out of school hours. The inert days they are provided with each term, only allows for planning and not marking. Both go in during holiday, Both complain teaching time is being sacrificed by the amount of regulatory paper work they now have to do.. Back to the days when my dad was teaching, he spent about two hours marking each night, and report time up late for a couple of weeks on the trot, as my mother would say, our house was more like a second staff room, teachers with no homes, and books everywhere.

K

Hello Mike I personally think if a teacher sends a pupil to the school Head They are saying I can't cope with this situation. The pupil will have lost The respect of the teacher. You have to earn respect you can't demand it. As For homework if you have been studying all day the last thing you want is to Continue when you get home. Without a break you soon become stale.

Steve, Danny, Anonymous and Paul B, just to add more to my post, I found that my 13 year old nephew who is in his second year of High school has around 7 hours of homework per week. My neohew also belongs to an after school revision and study group where he can ask questions about any of his subjects. He spends 3 hours each week in this group.

Michelle, my 10 year old niece is in grade 5 and attends the primary school at the end of my street. She receives 4 - 5 hours of homework oper week- a considerable amount for a child of her age.

There is a problem with her homework. Her parents have been told to encourage her but not to participate in any help she may need in regard to her homework. Therefore, her father and I believe the teacher is at fault. Her teacher says she gives them homework so she can assess them. However, if a child needs help with a math problem and is not shown correctly how to arrive at a solution to the problem, how can they be assessed properly.

Clearly the teacher has it backwards.

As a Assessment and Workplace Trainer, the following is how I teach a task to a student.

1. Introduce the topic and task

2. Demonstrate the task in steps

3. Assist the student as the student attempts the task

4. Allow the student to carry out the task by themselves

5. Answer any questions the student may have regarding the task

6. Review of the task

My niece has said on many occasions she is unable to work out a math problem for example,because because of the instruction given. Her parents can't show her so she hands in her work and is assessed on her efforts without the teacher being fully aware of her predicament.

Anonymous, I have very little experience with teachers who teach their own sons or daughters suffice to say that I was in a class with a boy who had his mother teaching at the school. He did get his fair share of detention as he was one of those kids who was inattentive at times. I do remember his mother berating him whenever he got into strife and I do know she used CP in the classroom but I never saw her use CP on him at school. What transpired at home may have been a different thing but he never said anything about being punished at home.

We didn't have the cane at school but 99% of teachers had straps which they used on a regular basis. Homework was an offence which meant the strap. There were usually 5 or six and sometimes many more in different classes each day standing out the front of the class awaiting their punishment for being slack.

Punishment books were another thing unheard of in my time at school. I never heard of them before joining this forum. I had a lot of friends attending different schools and they never mentioned punishment books so I take it they didn't exist in their schools either.

Paul, you comments ring memory bells because some of our teachers were so inept they didn't get any respect because the students thought they were a joke.

Danny, in responding to your post, things were different here. We had the Vietnam War to contend with which was not popular with many different groups. I remember it being a topic among my school friends and we were all frightened of being called up into National Service.

Teachers were split ofver the issue. Some of the ypounger ones had anti war stickers plastered all over their cars. Some of the older teachers felt we should do our duty. Half of those had never done a day in the Army.

Teachers had a habit of being hard on those who were anti Vietnam so it followed that kids started to challenge their teachers. I remember having an incident where I was sent to the Headmaster because I had a run-in with the Woodwork teacher. I went to the office and explained to the Headmaster (who was a good bloke) my side of the story and he sent me back to class.

If any student was sent to the Headmaster and he used CP, it was a very half hearted attempt by the Headmaster. Some kids preferred to see the Head than to be belted by certain teachers.

Mike

I have written here before about the Headmaster of my Grammar school who was really old (about my age now ...110?) and had taken over temporarily at the end of the War (Not the Crimean by the way, WW2). I was 11 when I was sent to him to be punished for truancy (bunking off in Oz language) and I'm sure he hated the whole idea of hurting a little kid. It was my first experience of the cane and I really do think it may have been his too! He put me over his knee and, after asking me if I was comfortable etc, gave me one whack and said "Did that hurt?" - I, naive little idiot, said no. He gave me three more and I gave the same answer after each one. They were no more than taps and I was too stupid to pretend that they hurt! The next one was a bit harder and did sting. When I told him it hurt, he gave me one more and that was it. Of all the punishments I was given at school that one I remember most because it was the being over his lap which was the main punishment. Even at 11 I felt babyish being in that position, strange, isn't it?
But as far as hurting goes I certainly would have changed places and taken that 'caning' than get any of the dozens of slipperings I got from various teachers in the next few years!

Danny, I hope you don't take this the wrong way and it is meant to be a compliment but I really thought you were a lot younger.

I had a lot of respect for my old Headmaster because he was great guy. When he announced he was retiring, I went to wish him the best and shook his hand. I probably would have been the only kid who did I feel. Not exactly true because I had a mate come along with me, but I was first!

We all tend to think of the worst teachers we had, the prolific CP Sadists, the humourless drones, the useless idiots-the list goes on, but we never really thing about that one occasional good ones. The one who was there to help,the approachable ones and the passionate about their career ones.

In reply to your incident with the Headmaster, I only ever saw one instance of an over the knee punishment and it happened to a girl. I was in grade 2 at the time and we had a young Nun teaching us. I felt the Sister picked on Kerry because she came from a large low income family and wore uniforms her older sister had grown out of.

I only remember the Sister having the dirts on that day and threatening us with a smacking on the trousers or on the dress. I felt sorry for Kerry because the Sister humiliated her and that was just not on. The good thing was that not one kid, boy or girl taunted Kerry afterwards in the playground. I used to walk home with her but I don't remember us discussing what happened that day. I've often wondered if she ever thinks about it or she blocked it out of her memory.

This same girl was struck across the back of the legs by the PE teacher with the rope cord which held her whistle. She had the marks on her les for hours after that.