girls were never spanked or caned at school, it just woudn't have been allowed. And even more so girls were never spanked or caned by male members of staff. You people have been taken in by all the kinky pornography on the web, it's all just fantasy. Sorry to shatter your illusions.

Read the numerous newspaper reports!

I assume you are a fan of Pink Flayed.

I am very much a pink floyd fan. I haven't seen newspaper reports that suggest girls were spanked or caned by male members of staff. Except for one were an old teachers was in the ****e. Don't get me wrong I would like to imagine that sexy sixth form girls in stockings and suspenders were getting their bare bottoms spanked pink over headmasters knees, but I know that it's all fantasy sadly!

Invest in a revised copy of 'The Corporal Punishment of Schoolgirls' when the third edition is published later this year and read all the documented facts.

It was extremely rare for sixth-form girls to be caned, but girls up to the age of 16 were caned or spanked at various schools by both male and female teachers.

Methinks Mr Lane is a troll, or 16 years old, or both! Please do not feed him, and he will go away, just like the dozens of others before him.
Now, anyone, got a good school CP story?

Great news from Mr Lane! After over 50 years hooked on school CP I can now be absolutely certain that the incident that got me that way never happened! A male teacher didn't slipper a female classmate in front of a class. Further, he didn't do it in a manner which, even in an environment where corporal punishment of both sexes was routine, had a dynamic that even the not very knowledgeable 12 year old lad I was then could sense was way beyond mere punishment.

How foolish of me to think that such a thing could ever have happened. The fact that the circumstances, the names of those involved, the exact location and the visual images are as vivid today as they were then (unlike virtually everything else from that time), is clearly a figment of my fevered imagination. Thank you Mr Lane, you've just liberated me from a lifetime's handicap - a minor, and sometimes an enjoyable handicap, but a handicap all the same!

Seriously Mr Lane, you're the one who needs to get real. I'll be charitable and assume you're trolling. If not then you must be very young or very ignorant, or possibly both. Anyone over 60 knows you are talking nonsense, as do a vast number of much younger people, depending on the schools they happened to attend. Sorry if this comes as a shock, but girls were quite definitely subjected to corporal punishment by male staff in British schools in the past. No reasonable person would claim that this was a desirable state of affairs, but it most certainly happened.

Come on, Another_Lurker, you can't leave it like that without giving us the details

I don't actually have anything to contribute to this discussion, I just noticed all the references to lurkers and thought I might as well add my 0.5 pennyworth.

I probably won't post again but you may be certain I will continue lurking.

Thank goodness, I thought nobody was going to ask ......... Oops, sorry, that should read: "Well, obviously I'm very reluctant to respond to the request by Yetanotheranotherlurker, but one mustn't disappoint one's audience so I'll do my best." This account won't be short. I'm a verbose so and so at the best of times and since I'm trying to explain the possibly inexplicable I need to set the scene and include what seem to me the relevant facts. To the forum moderators, who sometimes, quite justifiably I am sure, excise sections of postings, I would humbly request that if you find it necessary to take anything out of this then if possible please take out the whole thing.

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away - yes, I know that's someone else's line but, in my opinion at least, 1954, when this happened, is just as remote from today's world as is the Star Wars universe. In the small working class English town in which I lived there was still quite a lot of poverty, and I don't mean today's state funded pseudo-poverty, I mean real, grinding, not enough of anything ever poverty.

Possibly as a result of this awareness of how close most people were to a very hard life there was a discipline (some might well now call it subservience) in the way people interacted with authority. Policemen were all over 6 foot (1·83 metres for younger readers), there were lots of them, and they were quite likely to give a youngster who stepped out of line a good hiding without troubling either magistrates or social workers or, for that matter, parents. Of more relevance to this account, school teachers were very significant and highly respected figures in the community, and for the most part could do no wrong.

Most younger children were in awe of all their teachers, and rather frightened of some of them. A parent disputing any decision or action of a school or a school teacher was rare event. The law held teachers to be 'in loco parentis' - in place of a parent - whilst children were in school. Just as parents then could get away with almost anything short of murder or outright brutality in dealing with their children, so too could teachers. Happily very few parents, and even fewer teachers, went to extremes. However corporal punishment was certainly the norm and most children would be slapped, chastised with implements such as slippers or plimsolls, and possibly even caned for transgressions at both home and school both before and after they reached their teens.

The incident which so imprinted itself on me, and which I am sure triggered a life-long mildly prurient interest in school corporal punishment as applied to the opposite sex, happened near the end of my time in junior school. Like the unfortunate girl concerned and a few of our classmates my birthday meant I'd had to spend two years in the top class waiting to attain the age necessary to sit the 11+ examination, which at that time determined subsequent educational fate for all children. We were thus nearly 12, the oldest pupils in a class of around 50 children. That's right, I did say 50! Shock, horror if you subscribe to the modern theory that 20 is about the limit for any sort of successful education.

The school was very short of space, and our class had been outstationed for two years in a makeshift classroom in a local public building a short walk from the school. On the whole we'd had a very happy time there. We had the surrounding grounds as our own private playground, and as almost everything in those days was done as a class and taught by the same teacher we seldom went back to the main school, except for those few children who had school dinners. Most of us walked home for lunch as generally mothers didn't go out to work.

Thus far I'd had a very happy time generally at school. I was, I suppose, a star performer, and a good little lad to boot. I'd had a couple of corporal punishments there, certainly far less than the majority of lads, and probably less than most girls. To set the scene, and to save anyone asking about them I'll describe these briefly. Their main relevance is that they weren't relevant. By this I mean that as far as I can judge they didn't influence my reaction to the main event described later. The first frightened me, and the second was a non-event, but neither left me with any desire to see, read of, or hear of school corporal punishments.

The first punishment was part way through infant school, for talking in the morning line up before we marched into school, much to the annoyance of the young but somewhat termagant lady teacher who was conducting the ceremony that day. I still recall being extremely apprehensive when I found myself lined up with several other boys and girls in front of the massed ranks of older children in the top infant class taught by the lady in question, totally unaware of what fate awaited me. I soon found out though. I was second in the queue, and I watched horrified as the girl in front of me, from that same top class, was pulled alongside the seated teacher, turned with her back to the class, her dress pulled up on one side and her bare thigh slapped several times with a most alarming ferocity. She cried, and so did I as in quick succession I went under the teacher's arm, the leg of my shorts was pulled up and I suffered the same fate.

The second punishment, in my first year in the top class of junior school, was very different. Bend over a desk and one stroke of a gym shoe, together with several other boys. I can't even remember what this was about, probably something to do with forgetting sports kit, as the male teacher involved (not the same male teacher as in the main event), took us for the occasional football sessions on the school's tiny and rather nondescript playing field. These sessions were so occasional that lads often forgot their kit, hence the incidence of associated slipperings.

Besides these two personal experiences on the receiving end, by the time of the event which proved my nemesis I'd seen lots of other children spanked, rulered and slippered, usually on bare legs, hands and clothed bottoms respectively. The first two punishments were usually administered by female teachers, the latter exclusively by male teachers, of whom there were none in infant school and who were outnumbered two to one in junior school. As to recipients, boys were in the great majority, but plenty of girls got the slipper. Just as boys were slippered over their (invariably short) trousers, girls were likewise bent over one of the desks in the front row facing the class and given one or two strokes on the bottom over their skirts or dresses.

In addition to the above, in common with every other pupil in the junior school, in the two years there before I moved to the outstation, I'd seen boys from the senior school, and the occasional girl, waiting outside the headmaster's office to be caned. The cane was exclusively wielded by the headmaster, and reserved for senior school pupils. The headmaster was in charge of both the junior and senior schools and due to the rather strange layout of the school his office suite opened directly off the junior school playground. Caning time was afternoon playtime, so whether by accident or design the unfortunate recipients had to await the call to enter to meet their fate in the open playground surrounded by playing juniors. At that time most of us had no real idea what a caning involved. There was always a peculiarity about the very occasional girls who waited outside the office. The significance of this totally escaped me at the time, although I recalled it when I was reminded of it many years later by a chance woman acquaintance who had been at the senior school whilst I was at the junior school. She was attempting to persuade me that my admiration for the headmaster might be misplaced. He always seemed to me to very fair and gave me a very good write-up when I left the junior school to go elsewhere. However, if what she said was correct he certainly had another side to his nature! I could be persuaded to recount what she said, as it fitted the observed facts and was probably true, but I can't verify it.

And so to the main event, doubtless much to the relief of those who've got this far! Towards the end of my last term at the junior school our normal lady teacher was absent for a few days. Presumably it was pre-arranged, as a male teacher arrived to take us. I'll call him Mr Ford, although that wasn't his name. He normally took one of the classes below us, back at the main school. He was very young, by the standard of teachers at that time, probably in his mid twenties. He hadn't been at the school long, and although he stayed in the area he left teaching a year or two later.

Things went very well for the first day or so. Although like most of the other male teachers Mr Ford used corporal punishment, specifically by gym shoe, as his main sanction, it was hardly in evidence. A couple of boys maybe got a small dose each for something or other. The second day however it was PT in the afternoon. Although football for the lads was very intermittent, and I can't even remember if the girls did any sport at all, we children did PT once a week as a class. We didn't have PT teachers, the class teacher simply took the class through half an hour or so of very formal drills and exercises. The teachers didn't participate, indeed some of the more elderly ladies probably couldn't have done so. The class simply lined up in rows and columns and the teacher called out the actions to be performed. Usually PT was done in the school hall in bad weather or in the playground in good weather. In our little outstation we used the public hall upstairs in bad weather and the grounds outside in good weather. This particular day was a glorious so we were outside.

We had to change for PT. Boys wore navy PT shorts and girls wore a green PT shirt and green gym knickers, always referred to for some reason by pupils and teachers alike, as 'green things', as in "go and get your green things on girls", which signalled their departure to the comfortable upstairs changing room, whilst we lads had to manage with what was effectively a large cupboard under the admittedly fairly palatial stairs. For those unfamiliar with the indignities foisted on little girls in those days, and indeed frequently on not so little girls, see the third picture down in the Picture Test posting by Big John MOI which hopefully you should find here. Think slightly more abbreviated knickers by 1954, but you get the idea!

As I've said we stood in rows and columns for PT, maybe 5 across and 10 deep. Mr Ford stationed himself in front at one corner of the formation facing us. I was in the middle, one row back and immediately in front of me in the front row was a girl called Jennifer - again not her real name. As noted previously Jennifer, like me, was one of the older children in the class. She was a very pretty girl, indeed retrospective scrutiny of the class photograph indicates that she was certainly the prettiest girl in the class. She had blonde hair and very attractive facial features. In particular, and this is what I think sealed her fate, she came from a fairly affluent family. Her parents lived in the best part of the town and had been more than able to give her the best possible nutrition and environment. She positively glowed with health compared to the pallor then carried by many children, and, most important of all, she was considerably more comely than many of the girls, some of whom were fairly emaciated by modern standards.

Bear in mind that Mr Ford was the only adult present. There was no one else, teachers or otherwise on the premises. The back of the building, where we did PT, wasn't overlooked from anywhere. Apart from Mr Ford himself there were only children to observe what happened next, and he would have been well aware that those children would probably not read anything out of the ordinary into what on the face of it was a punishment for a perceived naughtiness, a severe punishment maybe, but a punishment nonetheless. Pre-teen children were not as worldly wise then as they are now. Further he could be pretty certain that no one, not even his victim, would complain. Children didn't in those days - they knew that a parent would almost always accept the teacher's account, not theirs.

You weren't supposed to talk during PT. Back then silence was imposed on children a great deal more than it is now. However we did chatter a little between ourselves and usually in PT teachers didn't take any action. Mr Ford bided his time, ignoring the first few chatterers. Fairly quickly he struck lucky. Jennifer part turned and asked me if I'd seen John, one of the other lads in our group of older children, almost trip himself up, which she obviously found amusing. Instantly Mr Ford struck. He shot over and asked if Jennifer had spoken. Very honestly, but probably foolishly she said she had. He quizzed her as to what she had said and to whom, and she told him. Quite a few teachers would have punished me as well, if they were going to punish anyone, on the grounds of guilt by association, but in retrospect I'm now fairly sure that at that stage Mr Ford wasn't in the least interested in punishing me, or any other lad for that matter.

He pulled Jennifer out to the front and made her stand hands on head with her back to us. Next he surveyed the assembled ranks, picked a lad with big feet and ordered him to hand over one of his gym shoes. Gym shoes had very flexible, but fairly thick black rubber soles. They stung mightily over the ordinary clothes on which they were normally used, but in this case the intended recipient only had thin cotton gym knickers as protection, which in itself made the circumstances unusual. Even more unusual things were to follow though.

He next ordered Jennifer to pull up the waistband of her knickers as far as it would go (the shirts were worn tucked into the knickers) and bend over and touch her toes, still with her back to us, both of which she duly did. I doubt if anyone twigged the purpose of the waistband bit at the time, I certainly didn't, but of course it both stretched the material tighter over the target area and exposed a little more leg. Much more unusual, and therefore notable, to me at least, and possibly to others, was the touching the toes posture. To be slippered you bent over a desk facing the class. The sight of a girl bent over touching her toes meekly awaiting punishment certainly excited me, and doubtless some other lads. Normally you only saw the recipient's face, with any associated grimaces and possibly tears, during a slippering. You didn't see their bottom, and certainly not tightly bent over.

Mr Ford still wasn't finished however. Jennifer's feet had to be just so far apart, no more, no less. Her knees had to be straight, and the tips of her fingers had to be touching the fronts of her shoes, not halfway to her ankles. Her back had to be arched, and her head had to be up, and so it went on. It seemed an age before all was as he wished. It must have seemed an age to Jennifer too. In reality it probably wasn't that long. Probably not even long enough to arouse any suspicion amongst children further back in the group who, frozen in position as we were, most likely couldn't fully see what was happening anyway. I however, effectively now at the front, and virtually close enough to feel the draught from the slipper when the punishment finally commenced, could see exactly what was happening, and I was hooked. The ritual, the tension, the enforced humiliation of the victim, all these played their part. I remember feeling very sorry for Jennifer, but I was still hooked! Doubtless Mr Ford felt something along the same lines, but without the sympathy for the victim.

The drama eventually moved into its concluding act. Mr Ford was of what I've since seen referred to as the one buttock at a time persuasion. Jennifer got four swipes, two to each cheek. For the record she yelped at the first two, sobbed almost inaudibly after the third and only cried openly after the fourth. A pretty brave performance I thought, especially as it was by no means unknown for girls, and sometimes even boys, to be reduced to tears by the more usual one or two strokes in much less trying circumstances! There might have been longer than usual between the strokes but I can't be sure. I didn't have a stop watch, and anyway I was concentrating on trying to turn myself into a slow motion camera so that I could replay every detail. The approach of the slipper, the impact, the victim's reaction, the lot!

After the punishment Mr Ford made Jennifer stay in position for a finite time, certainly longer than a few seconds. On being allowed to stand up she had to resume her hands on head posture in front of the class, and she stayed like that, sobbing quietly, until the end of the session, which wasn't very long.

Afterwards Jennifer didn't talk about it, and neither did the rest of us. Shortly afterwards we broke up for the summer and then dispersed to our respective secondary education venues. I suspect that to most of the class, probably including Jennifer, it was just a very severe punishment for something which was an 'official' offence but which normally might have attracted a slap at the most. To me, and, I'm certain now with hindsight and the insights of adulthood, to Mr Ford, it was more than that. It doesn't seem to have done Jennifer any great harm. Her posting on the Friends Reunited site for the school records a very successful career teaching around the world, a happy marriage, a family, and retirement to what most people would consider a pretty idyllic location in the West country. Mr Ford gave up teaching quite soon after I left the school and became an insurance agent. He lived quite near me for some time, and had a lovely daughter who certainly didn't give any sign that she might have been unduly subjected to her father's predilections. I struggled along somehow, making do with snippets from newspapers, and the odd (very odd! ) TV program and film until the Internet came along and my unusual interest became easy to indulge. Indeed, if I was so minded I could easily conclude it wasn't that unusual after all. I don't do so, because I'm well aware that a small minority can readily make itself look much bigger than the silent majority, especially on the web.

And the moral of this story? I still think that corporal punishment, up to and including a light caning, is a suitable way to punish very naughty children of both sexes in home and school, until they reach an age where they are relatively civilised, despite what Europe, our Parliament and assorted teachers, parents and social workers may say. It certainly didn't harm most of my contemporaries, and it gave us a respect for and a touch of fear of authority, which in turn enabled us to get a good education despite what were by modern standards grotesque class sizes. Not more than two or three children left my junior school each year unable to read, write and hold their own in arithmetic. That was out of around 100 children each year - there was another class of around 50 in the year in addition to my class of mainly grammar school hopefuls.

I can't say that corporal punishment never did me any harm because it did, but only slightly, and only because someone greatly exceeded the norm and I was possibly susceptible anyway. We don't ban road traffic because it sometimes kills people, it's far too useful to us. Nor, by the same token, should we ban corporal punishment because occasionally someone oversteps the mark and someone else is unduly influenced. Instead we should ensure that the sanctions for overstepping the mark are severe. No opposite sex punishments should be allowed in schools, except for female staff punishing very young boys, and all punishments should be in private. It wouldn't provide much fodder for people with my problem, but it would enable some sort of discipline to be restored to successive generations of young people who are now running out of control and harming themselves and society in the process.

Sorry folks, forgot I was behind a another server, and it's screwed up the link in the posting above.

For those who can't find the gym knicker picture in the Picture Tests posting by Big John MOI for themselves it's the third picture down here.

Again my apologies - it won't happen again!

Thank you, Another_Lurker, for sending in a very frank, interesting and well-written piece.

Automatic censoring is done by the software of Network54 and there are a few unpleasant words not allowed by our Moderator-in-Chief, Big Ray’s Old Mum, such as ‘C*untdown’.

Many thanks for that account.

I will share with you all my Road to Damascus event - which I am sure some people will say didn't happen - but very simply it did.

This was about 1960 and I went to a small mixed private (well, our parents paid for us to go there) school. My moment actually occurred when we were about 9. I won't go into details of what caused the discipline to be administered, but the result was that I along with the girl involved were stood before the headmistress - an absolute tyrant of a woman who had a better beard than I can now grow. Irish and very Catholic.

After the regulatory inquest into the atrocious behaviour the headmistress told me to go and wait in the corridor, outside the door, "but don't go away!".

So I did - and could hear everything through the very thin door. As AL in his tale tells of rerunning the video in his head, I playback the recording constantly. The headmistress told her to take off and hand over one of her pumps (plimsolls).

Then what has changed my life for ever. "Take your pants down". The major shock to me was not what that meant - but hearing our ogre of a headmistress say the word "pants". The girl made quite a fuss and I remember her being told that if she didn't do what she was told she'd get more. Presumably she complied as soon the "whap-whap-whap" came. Not just the three - not even a six-of-the-best - but a prolonged whalloping.

After a while things went quiet and she came out in tears and I was summoned in. And yes, it was pants down for me too. And when I'd taken them down, stood before her, pants draped round my ankles before bending over, what did this Irish Catholic woman say? If it wasn't so tragic I could laugh. "What do you think Jesus thinks about this sort of behaviour?"

At break time everyone of course asked what had happened, and I thought of playing it low-key, embarrassed as I was. Not the girl. "I had to take my pants down" she told the enthralled and horrified classmates.

My life was never the same again.

Girls certainly were whacked on the behind. And I can assure you that at least one was on the bare bottom - although not by a male teacher.

I can assure you too that every single word of this is true. So who's next?

Hallo to AL YAL & YAAL.

What a fantastic trio!

I've previously posted what started me off on the forum & it's currently on page 16, but for the benefit of new listeners:-


And it isn't riting we are talking about! Back in the infants at Oliver Goldsmith's again! We had outside toilets, even at that tender age, so this probably happened in May-Sept 1957, as any other time, using the cubicles would've meant being chiselled off the throne with an ice-pick!

Now, litte boys cannot or at least then could not resist running into the girls' loos. Getting caught meant Miss scolding you, slapping legs and bottom, then a dire warning that any repeat offence would see you delivered to the Headmistress for a REAL spanking!

We also believed this real spanking was what was delivered to those horrors caught red-handed gazing over the top of the toilet doors at girls on the throne, no "friendly" warning slaps here! Unsubstansiated rumours abounded that the slipper was in use for this, and the real sickos reckoned it was with trousers and pants down-as this was not unknown for some of us, boys or girls, at home.

And when one little snotty madam in our class called Cherry came back from a visit to the Headmistress's study accompanied by a severe-looking Miss Dutton and a howlingly tearful boy who appeared to be struggling to fasten his trousers up,we realised it might be just that & the bloody girl was invited to see it happen!

Anyone with a brain would have called it quits there & then. Well, not me! Thinking that my kiss-chases after my girlfriend didn't really count, as she often chased me into the gents, I went on with my wooing of Frances(not her real name). She was dark-haired & a Catholic & I chose the pseudonym because of this site's honourable Fran-my girl always wore green knickers, you see!

One break-time we were busily engaged in the usual toilet trail, if not toilet talk! Love often makes you a lot of things, including forgetful. If one of you wants to break things off to use the facilities, then it's not socially acceptable to clamour and yell silly things as you gawp at them over the toilet door.

It was also the wrong day to do it, as Mrs Savage(by name & nature!) was on playground duty and caught one miscreant inflagrante dilecto dangling and giggling. You hope,as the dangler, that, as the three of you make you way at the speed of light to the Headmistress's study, that Mrs Savage has seen the whole episode and knows you are not alone in sinning.

You keep hoping that, even after the summoned Miss Dutton and the HM express the opinion that such a crime as this is beyond comprehension and without precedent in the annals of education. Even after the gawped-at victim is consoled and invited to accompany you & Mrs Savage, who volunteers to deal with it in the appointed manner, you keep pleading that it wasn't just you.

Right up until Mrs Savage has you stood in the storeroom with the door closed, to attention by a gym horse, with obvious intent(that's you at attention, not the door!), you are still hoping justice will prevail-it does, but it's gonna be frontier justice!

Meanwhile, the victim has been stood a way back-to watch, and to not caught by the swinging arm? At least, that's what the victim is hoping is their level of involvement & that it ain't their turn shortly!!

At least I was, 'cos Frances had been the one caught gawping at ME! As I stood there, I was still petrified Mrs Savage was warming up on Frances before I got my medicine. However, one consolation, no slipper in sight.

Not needed, as I discovered in the brief period between Mrs Savage saying Right, and turning Frances over the gym equipment. Especially as there was an even briefer period between Mrs Savage pinning Frances into position with one firm hand and hauling down her tartan skirt with the other.

I never had time to be shocked or thrilled, as it was vest & t-shirt yanked up & knickers right down in a flash(and they were white that day), followed by 4 hand-spanks that may have been atomic ferocity to my 5-year old mind, or really were bloody fierce.

And my heart was in my mouth as Mrs Savage eased her grip & began"And now Stephen,".Not without good cause, as she went on "You will now discover why we cannot ABIDE liars" and Frances's protestations that I'd started it all were rejected as a further SIX rapid smacks descended on her bare bottom.

The noise the poor girl made after that defies description, but the look she gave me after getting dressed & heading back to the classroom with Mrs Savage doesn't. Pure, unadulterated hate! Needless to say, that love affair was a dead duck forthwith, as I should have been, too. Good job they never asked me any questions!!

Well, you good posters are the first people in nearly 50 years to know about this. It didn't start my interest in CP(I Think!), but it left me very ambivalent. I was so embarrased for Frances, at least for all of 10 secs, but I recall I was more s******y, and glad I managed to keep a solemn if pop-eyed face as it happened.Thank Christ there were no mobile phones or camcorders then, as I dread to think what I might have done to get happy slapping on the map in advance!

So, the 3rd R is ARSE, which I got an unprecented view of & I wonder if any of you have heard of or experienced the victim invited to view the miscreant tanned,or know of a jammier escape from just desserts!


AND-just over 2 years after I originally posted this,I can agree with all you Lurkers about video replays-even 50 years on!


Steve M

The best and very well written anecdotes for years!
These and similar occurences of CP were daily occurences at most every school ( I guess?) They certainly were at mine and those individuals I have disscussed this type of event with.
CP certainly made every one behave and achieve their potential. Yes it was sometimes OTT and sometimes plain sadistic, but it worked.

MIMI

And don't you just know YAAL, even in that unfortunate position must have had the Devil's own job not to answer the bearded HM:-

"Suffer little children,Miss?"

We've all grown up normal, too!


Steve M

If all this girls being caned/spanked at school was true then why when I did a search on google for any non porn related school punishment stuff did I find no refferences to girls being caned or spanked?
I found some school punishment records which all just had boys names on them, and always just one stroke punishments. Also any school history site I found just mentioned boys being caned and that girls always got lines or other punishment non caning/spanking ones.
It's not that I don't believe the people on here who say they witnessed girls being spanked, but there's no mainstream refferences to it on the internet, as I said other than on porn or "special interest" sites.

Is this some kind of cover-up?

Go to " Spanking facts and Research" and have a Gander.

ARNOLD

There's quite a fair bit of authentic stuff on Friends Reunited,though it tends to be this sort of thing:

"Do you remember Mr Sleezy and his slipper-girls & boys all felt it-I did!"

rather than gory details.

I think girls were always more reticent than boys and ashamed of it. I know being married to someone who's still peeved about their ONE detention in 7 years at Winchester County High School for Girls might exaggerate my perspective, but Sarah's fairly typical.

And, if it was private, like my viewing of Frances & YAAL's mad Irish Headmistress,I should think most girls would be even more inclined never to talk about it again,on the basis of what no-one else witnessed will never be made public.

They are always unable to keep a secret,unless it's about THEM. Though I'm sure Sarah won't mind me sharing her heinous crime;forgetting her DS apron & trying to wing it with a science lab-coat instead! No, she never tried being a private detective or secret agent as a career.


Steve M

Arnold

I reckon you weren't around then?

As Steven says it just wasn't talked about, although accepted. In my case the girl involved surprisingly blabbed what had happened at break, but after that the matter was NEVER again mentioned.

Even from my own part I recall someone a while later (and to me now it seems years later but probably was only months) mentioned me once "getting in trouble", my mates rallied round with "that was ages ago, it's all gone, forget it". The BIG fear was that our parents would have found out!

The girl (now presumably a woman in her late 50s actually) involved is not on Friends Reunited, and while I am (and hence I will never tell you the name of the school), and I do allude to a variety of punishment at the school, I have not and will not put this episode on there. That's the way things are and were.

YAAL

Hi Arnold Lane,

The 'Spanking Facts and Research' web site mimi refers to above is Colin Farrell's World Corporal Punishment Research site, which you will find here.

This is a huge and very authoritative site containing vast amounts of information. Mr Farrell is meticulous in referencing his sources. If an account is unverified he says so.

You say you did not find any references on the web to girls being caned or spanked. Here are three direct links to items on the Corpun site. All of these items were documented in UK newspapers, and two of them were the subject of court cases. I trust this is sufficient to satisfy you that they are what you refer to as 'mainstream'.

Headmistress canes girl pupil

Headmaster spanks girl pupils

Headmaster instructs female teacher to cane girl

There are hundreds of similar references, equally well documented, on the Corpun site. In addition, as Steve M says, the Friends Reunited site has numerous posts by girls who were spanked, slippered or caned. These of course are not verified, and therefore may not meet your criteria.

In seeking references to the corporal punishment of either sex on the web you must remember that corporal punishment in UK state schools was banned in 1987, before the web was available. In addition, when seeking references to the corporal punishment of girls you need to remember that far fewer girls than boys were punished in school. I'll probably get shot to bits on this but in my opinion until comparatively recently girls in general were better behaved than boys. Further, in the days when girls might have been subjected to corporal punishment, as mimi, Steve M and yetanotheranotherlurker say above, they were probably less likely than boys to brag about it or publicise it.

Actually your searching isn't too good:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/26/a5609126.shtml
The only other person I remember in Faringdon was the headmaster of the
school I attended. Although I never fell foul of him, I shared the common dread of him. He was old (to me), short, and his remaining hair was light brown. He had a violent temper and struck terror in our hearts by his shouting. He often used the cane and I remember on one occasion he caned a girl in front of the class after pulling down her knickers. Although I was only seven, I thought this was very wrong but never said anything about it in case I got the same. I was not sorry to leave Faringdon.

or page 23 of "Bomb in a Basket" by Peter Congdon:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BdPOH3JgJ1YC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22bomb+in+a+basket%22&lr=&sig=s9KHoyMHLmHDxghmMj97nBEErtM
Discipline at Johnston Terrace School was tight but not harsh. The older children were occasionally the recipients of corporal punishment and possibly deservedly so. My sister Barbara recalled an incident when a girl in her class had committed a misdemeanour and the deputy head teacher had taken the child's knickers down in front of the whole class and proceeded to give her a good hiding on her bare buttocks.

Not a school but an orphange:

http://www.redhill-reigate-history.co.uk/ppo.htm

"Many reminiscences were exchanged of course but oddly the majority ended up with the participant appearing in Mr Jupps office for a beating - and this was the girls as well. A show of hands indicated that almost all of us had suffered from L W Terrys' prediliction for caning young people and the general consensus seems to have been that had he been operating these days he would certainly have finished up in prison."

A later paragraph gives more details about what happened to the boys - we don't know about the girls, and maybe take our imagination one step too far:

"The most serious form of punishment was, of course, the cane. Mr Jupp had a flexible cane with the usual hook on the end. Should one be summonsed to his office in the evening, and then one could expect the cane from him. One would either be caned on the hands or on the backside, with trousers down, or both."

Then there's my favourite Friends Reunited entries:

St Margarets School for Girls, Folkestone
“As Ros says ...
Navy cloaks to the ground and berets on your head.Ghastly music lessons of singing, with girls one by one crawling out under hall chairs to exit unseen by teacher."Gettin g the slipper" by Dudley Hassan on bare flesh”

Templehall Secondary, Kirkcaldy
“Band (Science)
IT wasn't the girls palms Bandy wanted to warm in punishment Gordon **g** We were told to bend over and got a whack across the backside....we learnt very quickly to walk along the corridor.....lol”

Smithills Grammar School, Bolton:
“Mr Clements
O Yes ,Mr Clements, who made me take off my skirt when he caned me for making eyes at the younger teachers,”

In my Junior (primary) school, if my memory serves me right, I would say that boy and girl classroom punishments were about 50/50. Mostly rulered hands, smacked legs, OTK smacked bottoms ( sometimes bare) the occasional slippering and heard of but not witnesssed canings by the head.
At secondary school most classrom punishments were of boys, occasionally the treat of a girl. Canings were done in private by the head for boys. Girls got it from the senior mistress but for some reason or other these were rather clandestine affairs.
I have a feeling that female teachers loved getting boys phisically punished, some kind of anti male thing.
Girls tended to be really quiet and really sneaky, as if butter would not melt in their mouths:-). In reality they were just as naughty, just carefull not to get caught.
A good dose of feminine tears could obviate a well deserved whacking!

Arnold Lane:

Are you still in denial after the excellent contributions above?

Or are you just a troll who is trying to be controversial? As other have pointed out, there is ample evidence on the internet of such activities, and I can tell you from my own personal experiences that girls were frequently caned in some schools - I know because I saw the marks on several occasions! Or perhaps you think they got a mate to put them on with lipstick!
Wake up and small the coffee Arnold; life has moved on a lot since those days, but I can remember kids being caned in school (and at home) as well I can remember ration books - but then you'll probably tell us they didn't exist either because you've never seen one!

Hi Falling Star,

I think Mr Lane has gone to ground, or maybe he's had too much homework from school this weekend!

We'd both best keep quiet about the ration books though - gives away our age! Though come to think of it I've already declared my age on the Forum to anyone who can do simple arithmetic!

I'll bet Mr Lane can't even remember as far back as those funny ration ticket things the government issued in 1973, in case petrol supplies dried up completely, but which were never used.

Another Lurker:

Yeah, I'm not ashamed about the ration books - goes hand in hand with school corporal punishment in my view. I may be over 60, but I feel like a 20 year old - anyone know where there is one? - The old ones are the best!

I know what I saw when I was at school, and there are many good contributions from posters - some of the best I've seen in a while, so maybe Arnold has done us a favour.

Oh, Arnold Layne
It's not the same, takes two to know
Two to know, two to know
Why can't you see?

(From the original Pink Floyd lyrics)

Not gone to ground, however you are making a good case. If it was happening though, how come these headmasters, the ones in the papers, are in trouble? if it was typical punishment back then, why are they in court?

ARNOLD

The Helston case from 1964 got into the press for 2 good reasons-the Head dragged the Deputy Headmistress into the spanking routine. Also, crucially, the 2 boys at this school who were canoodling with the spanked(or is that spankees?)were NOT punished at all.

All of which left him looking like a major pervert and nothing else-which is exactly what he was.

The Janet Dines pallaver didn't actually result in anything for the Headmistress in question. I would have said that caning girls on their knickers was de trop for 1976, and that's why it made the papers.

By that time, too, there were a fair number of parents ready to complain, because THEY had grown up under a system where canings of this sort didn't happen in state schools. George, the ex-Headmaster on here, once most helpfully posted about 1960 being the year of a sea-change in attitudes, but I can't remember if that was just LCC?

I do remember my form-teacher in 3N in 1966 reminiscing about the expelled 4th-former, who'd probably fired an airgun at the Deputy Headmaster(and missed!). He had refused a caning, and trousers down had been ordered. That,I'm certain was quoted as 1959, and I'm also pretty certain Killer Kemp told us that the trousers-down lark had ended, even with Headmaster's beatings, some years before 1966.

The reason the Headmistress got away with it was the fact that the father had to admit HE'D tanned his daughter's backside a few times.

Don't think it was as widespread as our recent posts suggests-it wasn't. I'm a bit younger than some of our lurkers or stars(56),but even in their day, boys tended to get it much more often than girls, at least in secondary school. I'd have to guess, but I reckon about 1 girl to every 15/20 boys in my time,possibly 1 to 10/12 a little earlier.

In primary school, it was still usually boys, but maybe about 1 girl to every 10/12 boys, and maybe 1 girl to 6/8 boys in earlier times.

What was also interesting was the difference between schools-the incident with Frances was at Oliver Goldsmith's,Camberwell & that retained a savage CP reputation for years after.

Yet Halstow, at Greenwich, my next school, hardly ever used it. That difference was simply between London SE5 & SE10!!


Steve M

ARNOLD


YAAL's example from Smithills Bolton was from a girl who left in 1962, so assume some time between 1958-1962 for the whacking.

Mr Clements was still Head in 1980, too!

Bet he sat alone in that study thinking of all those knickers he'd had a flash of, too!

What I DO wonder about now is why we accepted being caned as a part of school life? I took it the once I got it, though if the bastard had said trousers off I would have decked him.

As I did on my last day,when he called me a degenerate. Best punch I ever threw & probably the only one I had to.


Steve M

re girls being caned by headmasters is another-lurker going to say what he ment about some peculiarity about girls waiting to be caned

Hi just curious,

Maybe - I'll see how I'm fixed for time tonight. Mainly hearsay though, as I said in the original posting.

‘Lad, Learn on’ an appropriate anagram for you Arnold Lane.

As one of the minority female posters on this site, who witnessed and received, it was quite the norm and accepted for girls to receive CP, dependant the era you attended school. What you have to take into account, - this was an expectable form of punishment up until the mid 80’s and 90’s (in the case of private schools). Yes, given less to girls than boys, but no less supported by government, parents and teachers alike

Mimi’s post is a fairly accurate account of Primary school classroom punishments as I remember. Most Primary schools dealt girls in similar manner to boys, both dealt by female teachers who outnumbered their male counterparts, but not unheard of for a male teacher to smack legs and ruler girls.

Secondary school level differed. - Some all girls schools, mainly the Grammar schools rarely if ever used CP, Co ed and private schools often ruled girls could be physically punished and those that did were in the main dealt with by female deputy or head away from the glare of the classroom, behind closed doors. Occasionally male teachers hand caned girls in senior school, this happened at one of the schools I attended , but again fairly rare and not much past the first or second year, the majority opt to send girls to the senior mistress.

Arnold, there is plenty of evidence on the web that confirms what my fellow posters and myself relay as a fairly accurate picture of the times. Rodney School was one of the last private schools to retain CP and caned girls as late as the 90’s, the private school I attended caned girls. Where incidences of CP were entered into punishment books, and not all were, these are subjected to the 50 year ruling and not available for public record having a few years to run, but may lead to a degree of eventual proof.

Not all authorities provided guidelines on what was deemed acceptable use of CP on girls, those that did, the majority stipulated girls should be punished by someone of the same sex. Rarely a headmaster/ teacher abused their position and ruling. Of those incidences reported, it was these cases that ended in courts and attracted media coverage, a somewhat rare exception from the norm classroom discipline.

Arnold, Too young or in denial, it happened, enough posters on this site witnessed, received, survived the school experience to know the difference between the teenage schoolgirl image portrayed in fantasy consensual sites, the one hand typists, and true facts.

Ketta

Very elequently put Ketta, and an exact description of the situation as I remember it.
Incidentally, my cousin, who was a music teacher, told me that on several occasions she was called into the headmaster's office to witness the caning of a girl.

Arnold - many of the regular contributors to this site have gone to some lengths to convince you that corporal punishment for girls in school did exist.
Frankly, if you are still sceptical after all this, you should move on, and keep your thoughts to yourself.

Mr C at my Junior school specialinsed in applying a ruler to the calves of both boys and girls.
At least every lesson one or more got it.
He is mentioned in FR for this, no I am not saying the school name even though I am not on the site.

Just for info, Falling Star - do you know if this was "posterial discipline" your cousin was called to witness?

... and Another_lurker - we wait with baited breath!!

Yes, apparently so. Sadly, my cousin died following an accident about 18 months ago, so I'll never know all the details.
She was at a mixed secondary school in the NW of England, during the late 70s/early 80s, and she told me that she was occasionally called in to witness the punishment of a girl by the headmaster. Apparently, whenever a girl was caned, a female was called in to witness the punishment. I imagine that this was to ensure that there were no allegations against the headmaster afterwards.
I'm afraid I don't have any more details.

Hi All,

First, my rather belated thanks to everyone who commented favourably on my previous posting in this thread. I'm amazed that anyone had the patience to wade through it, but I'm grateful to those who did. Quite cathartic writing it really, 50+ years is a long time to keep things bottled up! Sadly this account is probably even longer, but it's the only writing style I know. I blame programming in COBOL. Sorry, old programmers' joke!

I apologise for taking so long to respond to the recent prompts by just curious and Yetanotheranotherlurker to expand on the caning of girls in the senior school of the junior school I attended, which I touched on in my previous post. I must stress that this is for the most part information I had at second hand. I have never seen, or indeed had direct verifiable personal knowledge of, a girl being caned at school. Surprisingly perhaps for someone with a pronounced interest in school corporal punishment, I have only once seen a school cane 'in the flesh' so to speak. That cane was on the table in the prefects' room on the one and only occasion when, age 13 and a fourth former at a public school, I was summoned before the prefects' court.

Happily I didn't get to experience the cane as a consequence of that prefects' court appearance, or at any other time in my school career for that matter. My offence (running in a quad when late for a lesson) was so minor it only merited lines. Mr Lane, and possibly others, may doubt that caning of pupils by pupils ever happened. However I can confirm that, at least until 1960 when I left, prefects at that school (usually aged 17 to 18) were still beating younger pupils on the buttocks with a cane after 'due process' in the prefects' court. Least this arouses any lascivious thoughts of fifth form girls bending over for the captain of the school rugby team I hasten to add that it was a boys only school!

As I said in the previous post, some years ago I encountered socially a woman who had attended the senior school associated with the my junior school. She happened to be talking about a school reunion she had recently attended, and I said I'd been to junior school there. It soon emerged that we'd been contemporaries at the school, though she was of course a little older than me. At the time I had lived away from the town for several years and thus was out of touch with the school. I therefore asked if the headmaster at the time we were there, whom I said I'd very much respected, was still alive, thinking he might have been at the reunion.

It immediately became obvious that I'd said the wrong thing. The mere mention of the headmaster's name caused her to become absolutely suffused with anger. It has been my experience, and other people have made the same observation in this thread, that girls and women are normally very reticent about discussing any bad behaviour on their part or any punishments they may have incurred. This lady felt very strongly about the interaction she had had with the headmaster. So much so that she launched straight into the story of how she'd been caned by him for truancy in her final year at the school, telling me that he was a despicable character and that I was quite wrong about him.

Let me say initially that for anyone with visions of an 18 year old girl being caned, forget it, the school leaving age then for those at non-academic senior schools like that one was 15. She didn't state her age when the incident happened. As it was in her final year she was probably 14. I'll also say that I've no idea why she chose to confide in me, other than to confound my positive view of the headmaster, which was clearly anathema to her. I'm told I'm a good listener, and I freely admit I listened avidly, and even risked the odd question whilst trying not to appear too obsessively interested!

At that time of the conversation (around 1985) there was no internet, and the only material available to feed my 'special interest' was the odd newspaper report of court cases resulting from what little corporal punishment of schoolgirls was still extant. Her revelations were therefore the verbal equivalent of striking gold for me! In recounting what she said I haven't attempted to do so verbatim. I couldn't, it's too long ago now. In addition I have almost inevitably allowed my own assumptions and interpretations to infiltrate the account. For this I apologise, both to her and to you, but I don't believe it alters the essentials of what she said.

It seemed that she didn't feel she had been wrongly punished. What she still felt intensely angry about, and what had clearly made the same sort of indelible impression on her as watching my female classmate slippered had made on me, was what she referred to as 'the perverted and evil routine' that girls who were caned were subjected to. She said this was designed to ensure not only the maximum pain, but also the maximum humiliation for the unfortunate female recipients, and she blamed this entirely on the headmaster's misogyny. Lads who were caned, she said, had a relatively easy time. Not so girls though!

Postings in this thread by Yetanotheranotherlurker and Steve M concerning the girl at Smithills Grammar School Bolton who had to remove her skirt to be caned, make what I was told a little more believable. Although my own observations while at the school confirmed one detail of what my informant said, I've previously had a suspicion that she might have exaggerated somewhat to support her antipathy to the headmaster. However if Steve M's calculations regarding the date of the Smithills incident (1958-1962) are correct then this would have taken place a few years after the incident related to me. Since the Smithills headmaster concerned was still in post in 1980 we can reasonably assume that he was not censured for his practice in earlier years of requiring girls to partially undress to be caned. It is quite possible that other headmasters, including the one at my school, might have operated punishment regimes in the 1950s which, if utilised some years later, would certainly have landed them in court.

It seemed, from what my acquaintance said, that pupils in the senior school were well aware of what was involved in being caned, and the differing routines for boys and girls. In the junior school I certainly knew none of this, nor, I am pretty confident, did my classmates. No one in the junior school was caned. Further, the senior school was physically separate, although on the same campus. The headmaster of the two schools had an office accessed from the junior school playground, but that was really the only point of contact. Further, in my class at the junior school, older brothers and sisters if any were unlikely to have attended the senior school. They'd almost certainly have gone to grammar school or other academic outlets, which was where we in turn were bound. The parallel stream less academic junior classes might well have had siblings in the senior school, but classes within the junior school were very much self-contained units and little cross contact took place. All we knew of the process was the rumour that the rather nervous senior school pupils who sometimes appeared in our playground towards the end of afternoon playtime and waited outside the headmaster's door were going to be caned.

My informant said that both boys and girls were told by their teachers when they entered the senior school that the sanctions available for bad behaviour now included caning. Girls were also told that because they wore a variety of skirts and dresses (fairly long and fairly voluminous at that time) in materials of differing thickness, and often with underskirts or petticoats their attire frequently made caning for girls ineffective. By 'ineffective' she said, they clearly meant not painful enough! Further, some offences merited more serious punishment than simply caning on the bottom over clothes. For boys this might entail dropping their trousers and being caned with the minimal protection of underpants, or even having to remove the latter as well to be caned on the bare bottom. Only the headmaster was allowed to cane pupils, and clearly decorum would not permit him to extend this method of securing progressive severity to girls. This was a church school, and such activities might have caused some scandal even in those days! My comment not hers.

It had therefore been decreed by the headmaster that when pupils were to be caned they would be informed of the due day by a teacher. During the afternoon break boys would simply go to the headmaster's office, knock and wait to be called in. Girls however would go to the changing room and change into their PT kit. This was still the green PT shirt and green gym knickers as worn in the junior school. As per my previous posting, see the third picture down on Big John MOI's Picture Test thread which you will find here and think slightly skimpier knickers.

After changing girls would then have to put on their coats (which they'd have at school in winter) or their domestic science smocks (when they hadn't got coats) as they shouldn't wander round the school in gym clothes. My informant didn't comment on why it was ok to do PT in gym clothes, or indeed, in view of what came later, to be caned by the headmaster in them, but not to walk round the school in them. I'd guess that it was because in the senior school boys and girls did PT separately in a dedicated gym, rather than together in whatever space was available, as in the junior school. It was probably felt that it was undesirable for the older girls to walk round the school in PT kit. These were fairly prudish times, at least in public!

Girls were then required to go to the staff room, knock, and ask for a female teacher who would accompany them back to the changing room and verify that they were not wearing anything under the gym knickers. This done the unfortunate girl would be sent off to the junior school playground and the lonely wait outside the headmaster's office. Thinking back, I realised that this explained the peculiarity we juniors noticed when the occasional girl stood in our playground waiting to enter the headmaster's office to be caned. The girls we saw waiting for punishment, and I'll stress again that there were very few of them, were all wearing coats or domestic science smocks!
.
My informant said that when they were given this information the teacher didn't go into details of what would actually happen during the caning, although it was fairly clear they'd be caned on their bottoms. She said it was also obvious to her, given the nature of the preceding routine, there was at least a degree of misogyny involved, though she wouldn't have known the word at that time. She said one of the girls in her class did pluck up courage to ask how it could be fair for boys to be punished over two layers of clothing while girls only had thin cotton gym knickers for protection. The answer was that girls were punished with a lighter cane so it was necessary for them to have less protection. Once again, she said, the teacher failed to add 'to make it hurt more', but that was the inference they made.

That so much trouble was taken to impress the consequences of bad behaviour on the girls was, in my opinion, fairly typical of the time. Girls were certainly expected, and indeed required by society to be better behaved than boys and any tactics likely to bring this about were considered acceptable and frequently utilised. My acquaintance confirmed that despite this very frightening lecture on what could befall naughty children in the senior school, and especially naughty girls, very few girls were actually caned. She thought perhaps one or two a year in her class. As there were two classes in each year and four year groups this would probably mean somewhere between 8 and 16 girls caned each year whereas I'd reckon from my observations that probably 4 or 5 boys were caned each week of term, quite often two on the same day.

Subsequently the lady in question went right through to her final year without getting into any trouble. She said that in the intervening years the few girls who were caned always returned crying. Nobody talked much about it, but a friend who was caned told her it hurt terribly and the marks lasted over a week. Then, aged 14, she was drawn into going into the nearby city one day with an older friend who had a day off work, and thus missed school.

She forged a note from her mother to say she'd been sick and presented it at school the next day. Unfortunately what she didn't know was that when her absence was noted the 'school bobby' (later known as 'educational welfare officer', but not half so terrifying to children by then), had made a routine call at her home. Her mother had said she was at school, and when informed that she wasn't had guessed what she'd done and told the school to deal with it. She hadn't let her daughter know that she'd been found out. The woman didn't seem to have completely forgiven her mother for this, even after all the intervening years, sentiments clearly reinforced by the unpleasant consequences.

She was told by her teacher that she could be taken away from home and 'sent away' (being 'sent away' was the ultimate terror for all but the most recalcitrant children in the 1950s). However, because she'd previously been a good girl the ultimate penalty wouldn't be imposed on this occasion, but because of the truancy and because she'd forged the note she would be caned 'very severely' that afternoon. She said she was terrified. She'd had the odd slap and slippering in infant and junior school, as had nearly all children at that time, but she'd never been caned. Further, what did 'very severely' mean? She said she was too frightened to ask the teacher, and too ashamed to ask the few girls she knew who'd been caned.

The appointed time came and she managed to get through the ritual of changing into her PT kit and getting the 'layers' check carried out by a woman teacher. All this teacher did was her if she had anything on underneath her gym knickers. In view of my own later conclusions about what happened I suspect that the teacher knew that that particular issue was going to be largely academic, but this explanation didn't come up in our conversation.

She got through the domestic science smock clad wait outside the headmaster's door, and eventually she was called in. She said the first thing she saw was the cane on the headmaster's desk, along side a book with white card covers, which she later found was the school punishment book. The headmaster gave her a lengthy lecture, which she didn't really hear. All she could do was stare at the cane, which she said was a brown colour with a curved handle, and which looked absolutely terrifying. Eventually the headmaster stood up and picked up the cane and she was told to bend over the end of a side table in the office, which she did.

The headmaster then said that because she had been extremely naughty she must be punished more severely than usual, and she must push up the legs of her gym knickers at the back as far as they would go. I didn't comprehend this one straight away - melodramatic photographic representations of schoolgirl caning were not around at that time, or at least I hadn't seen any. However I rapidly worked out that she was indicating that she had effectively been caned on the bare whilst maintaining at least a pretension of decency. All she actually said was that she had done as he said because she was too frightened to disobey him.

She received four strokes, each of which she said was absolutely agonising. She jumped up in huge discomfort and in tears after the first stroke, but was told she would get extra stokes if she didn't stay in position, which she then forced herself to do. She next had to stand while he filled in the punishment book, saying as he did so her name, and "four stroke on the seat, truancy and telling lies". She said she realised at that point that this record of the event was much less than truthful, but that it somehow made what had happened legitimate in the headmaster's eyes. It didn't seem too inappropriate to ask how long the effects lasted. She said she was in pain until she went to bed that night, and the marks lasted for over a week.

I sympathised, said that it was dreadful, and found a form of words to indicate that my opinion of the headmaster might well be due for an overhaul. However, I discretely sought confirmation, at least of the ritual involved, from a couple of other women I knew who had been at the senior school around that time. The first simply gave me a look that said 'if I didn't know you I'd think you were a pervert of some sort' and said that she'd never been in any trouble so she didn't know anything about that sort of thing. The other was a bit more promising. She had the reputation of having been, in the local vernacular, 'a bit of a lass' in her youth. She said she hadn't been caned herself but, at which point my hopes rose. However she continued "there was a lot people didn't know about" and refused to say any more.

I still don't know for certain myself. I guess making a girl adjust 'legitimate' sports clothing to produce a greater degree of brevity would probably rank alongside making her remove her skirt and reveal her normally definitely not on view underwear. If so, and if the skirt removal story is true, the routine described to me might well have been considered acceptable at the time. The argument is often that if postings on Friends Reunited weren't true someone would contradict them. This argument is not totally reliable however. In my year list on Friends Reunited for the public school there were three girls' names the last time I looked. As I've already said, it was an all boys school! The confusion can be explained by a nearby girls school with a very similar name, but the important point is that no one has corrected the entries. Do Friends Reunited make that sort of correction if any one contacts them? I don't know. Would they have corrected the skirt removal entry if anyone questioned it? Again I don't know. The punishment book concerned will presumably become publicly accessible at some stage if it still exists. I'm told a lot of them disappeared before ever entering archives. Even if it was available, from what she said it would only record that a fairly inocuous, even if severe, punishment took place. It would not throw any light on the underlying humiliations and less than reasonable practices. Such things weren't recorded in this case, and presumably not in other similar punishments.

My position now is that on balance I accept what I was told. You will have to form your own opinion. This thread started by Arnold Lane in such a confrontational mode has actually yielded a lot of good stuff, and probably we should be grateful to him. I hope my own contributions can at least aspire to be ranked with the good stuff, and maybe someone can provide evidence that would make me feel just a little more secure in accepting what I was told and in documenting it.

And to those of you who've got this far, my most sincere congratulations!

What a supurb informative and articulate anecdote.
My only comment is that any punishment that requires special clothing and ritual is a bit dodgy to say the least.
That said, 4 strokes for the offence was quite fair.

A.L.

Thanks-I've no doubt this was an actual event, so please don't read anything nasty into me calling you a great story-teller!

I think the clincher is the Headmaster's bland entry into the punishment book. If it WERE ever audited,the lack of "On gym knickers" would not have raised an auditor's eyebrow about a girl bending over for 4 strokes,or a schools inspector's, either!

We shouldn't knock knickers-as I think I posted here some time ago, the end(or temporary suspension) of my career as Dennis the Menace impersonator at Primary school came when a dinnertime firing of rotten tomatoes at Monday's washing by local residents from their back alley got back to the school.

Good old blue-eyed, top of the class Stephen may have been very low on the list of suspects, but he would have been bending over for 4, and possibly 6, had that catapult been discovered.

Fortunately, as the irate washerwomen had only spotted a boy in fawn shorts, that didn't narrow the list of suspects too far in those days. What it DID do was ensure no teachers would be intent on "frisking" any girls.

And on Friends Reunited, Miss Clarke's class 1961 photo not only contains me,but the girl who hid the catty in her knickers for me! It cost me half-a-crown's worth of sweets and a whole week of being caught in kiss-chases,but I still think it was worth it-I've carried a torch for her for 45 years now!


Steve M

Hi mimi and Steve M,

Thank you for your kind words and your comments on my last posting. I hesitated on whether to post the item. The clincher was Yetanotheranotherlurker's Smithills Grammar School item from Friends Reunited, and your research, Steve, establishing the probable date of that incident.

I hoped that by posting it some more evidence of similar cases might emerge to confirm me in my rather belated acceptance of that sort of thing having happened. However I'd guess that by the 1960s any headmasters so inclined would have felt a little less secure in their assumed role as absolute lord of their own little fiefdom. This probably points to the 1950s as the latest such regimes were likely to exist. Even if there were similar disciplinary extremes, anyone who was subjected to them, or witnessed them, is inevitably going to be in their 60s now. As quite a lot of my generation don't use the web, and of those who do only a tiny proportion are likely to read this forum, the potential reporting base is, I guess, very limited!

As regards my own direct experiences of school CP, I've pretty much exhausted them now. However, I find this forum a place where there are a number of people, yourselves included, with whom I feel a certain empathy, albeit an electronic one! For that reason I'll certainly be continuing to lurk until something else tempts me in out of the surrounding darkness!

Best wishes,

Another_Lurker

A.L.

I'm glad we've helped you recount that after so long. You can usually trust your gut instincts,even at a tenderer age.

And now I'd better enter the confessional box. I've previously detailed how, for around 3 years in the early 70's,I had affairs of the heart and bum with 3 separate girls simultaneously.

One of them was a trainee teacher & eventually decided not to go into the profession. Time to say why,I think.

She was out training in classrooms in the 2nd year of her degree at a primary school in Essex. It was either somewhere near Manningtree,Romford or Ilford & can't remember which.

This was 1972, and said school had a Headmaster who was in his late 50's. He'd been there as head for 15 years or more when Barbara went there, and definitely was Lord of All I Behold.

Barbara was regaled with plentiful tales of both boys and girls being caned or strapped in front of the class in former days, as Mimi amongst others has probably seen. That wasn't the problem for Barbara,as it clearly no longer happened in public.

Nor was the fact that the Headmaster told her that beatings were still occasionally done by him or the Deputy Headmistress, as available, currently. Nor was Barbara massively concerned by the Head's suggestion that she should witness the next entries into the punishment book by him or his Deputy, on the basis of Barbara having HER forthcoming entries similarly witnessed.

Barbara didn't like the fact that said entries would simply have said 4 strokes on bottom,when she'd been told it was always at least 6, though, of course, all the previous public tannings had ever said on paper was 3 or 4 strokes-no mention of a tittering,giggling audience,nor the true number!

What "did" it for Barbara was the Headmaster's demonstration of the alternative punishment. This SHOULD have been carried out by the Deputy Headmistress, as it was a girl, but that lady was off sick.

Barbara was not shocked to find out that the alternative was trousers down/skirt off slippering or handspanking. She was amazed that the Headmaster was contemplating doing this to a girl(aged 9,I believe), especially using her as a witness.

However, what made it worse was that Barbara was expected to witness just a spanking and no more. Just to really show what could be done,the headmaster,with the miscreant across his knee & skirt taken down, calmly announced to Barbara that he'd never spanked a black girl before & so would have to make an example of this one.

With that,the little girl's knickers were pulled down and 9 spanks given.The Headmaster then casually said to Barbara, "And Sophie's(not the real name)little bottom is just as red as a white girl's,too. That's not only satisfied my curiosity, it's just struck a blow or 9 for racial equality,too!" Yes, it went down as 6 smacks on bottom & no more.

The Greeks have a word for it, as someone once said,and that word was & still is:-"YEUCCH!"


Steve M

I would suggest the following evidence shows Arnold Lane is suffering from an acute attack of Moon-shine, (white)Washing-Line Syndrome. The following official documents are completely genuine. They are maintained and displayed by an organisation with no particular axe to grind on the contents. They show from careful inspection that there is good reason to believe that female pupils were subject to corporal punishment, in some cases as rigorous as that applied generally to males.

I am also struck by the similarity of the Anonymous_Lurker's prose, punctuation style and length of contribuition to other historically illustrious contributors to this forum. Does anyone else get this feeling?

Links follow (hopefully)


http://www.thomaswolsey.com/punishmentbook.htm

http://www.thomaswolsey.com/punishmentbook2.htm

http://www.thomaswolsey.com/punishmentbook3.htm

A_Lurkologist said:

"I am also struck by the similarity of the Anonymous_Lurker's prose, punctuation style and length of contribution to other historically illustrious contributors to this forum."

Wow, 'historically illustrious'! I love it, I love it, more please, more!

Sadly however, I have to inform A_Lurkologist that his/her suspicions are ill-founded.

In the past I did make the odd very short contribution to this estimable forum using another name - if I recall correctly it was A Lurker. Under this pseudonym I even won a competition set by, if memory serves me correctly, Subscriptions Manager. I can't recall the question, but the answer I think was 'Lawrence of Arabia - Aircraftman T E Shaw'.

I then realised, in checking something via the forum indexing, that someone else had used the name A Lurker, though some time before my first contribution. As a preamble to my next contribution thereafter, made under the name 'Another_Lurker', I confessed to my sin, apologised to the real A Lurker, and said that in future I would use the name 'Another_Lurker' for my postings.

I've tried just now to track down the relevant postings, but the indexing is not 100% reliable, and in any event they may have disappeared into the fabled archives of this forum to which only those few who are party to the innermost secrets and rituals have access. I am sure one of these carefully selected guardians can verify my claims.

And finally, my congratulations to A_Lurkologist for tracking down the Thomas Wolsey School punishment book. I tried very hard to find it when I posted some links for Mr Lane earlier in this thread, but I couldn't recall the name of the school. It may be that 1931 is too far back to meet Mr Lane's criteria, but otherwise it certainly seems to contradict his rather bold assertion.

This posting hereby certified as the genuine and unaided work of the one and only historically illustrious Another_Lurker

Thank you Subscriptions Manager, I am indebted to you for reuniting me with that thread. I should have kept a copy of it at the time.

It was in fact only the second prize I had ever won, the first being third prize in the raffle at a lecture by one of Britain's Mountaineering luminaries.

These things assume a greater importance as one realises one is sliding fast down the scree slope of life!

A.L.

I'm fascinated by the mountaineering prize.

Probably nothing to do with spanking, but just what did you win, if it's not being too personal?


Steve M

Hi Steve M. As you observe, we are a few miles off-topic here! However, since you ask, the prize in question was a bottle of very cheap French red wine.

After scanning the first page of that Ipswich punishment book I would say that Headmaster handed out 6 strokes like he was handing out candy at Christmas.Boys or girls. I've known a couple like that myself.

Gone very quiet in the Arnold Lane camp, hasn't it?

A headmaster was prosecuted for caning an 18 year old girl on the backside in the 1960's, and was found not guilty (the age of majority was 21 until 1/1/1970 and 18 year olds were definitely considered to be children). This meant that the court considered the punishment reasonable, since the only national restriction was that the punishment should be reasonable. The school had parental authority whilst in charge of the child. 18 years old was probably quite rare, but up to & including the fifth year (now known as year 11), girls were commonly caned in some schools. Others used 'milder' punishments such as the strap or slipper. The inverted commas are because they could sometimes hurt more, depending on who administered the cane.

You are judging those times by the standards of today. Following the same reasoning, you could say witches were never burnt at the stake, or people were never hanged. Girls were caned, although less often than boys, and often when it was done by a man, it probably had more to do with sexual motives than discipline; nevertheless, it did happen to an extent where it was not extraordinary. Punishments such as the slipper or simple smacking may (going by memory) have been given to girls more frequently, as they were often for talking in class, and girls are more prone to this.
If by spanking, you mean put over the knee, I never saw this done to either
sex at school, but know it happened to friends of both sexes at home.

True not many girls were caned at school however I have known of some. I do know of a very elite private school in Sydney-SCEGGS that did cane girls (on their hands though-and nly the principal) and I am talking the 80's.
As I became more aware of my own desire to spank the naked female posterior I actually saw a professional dom/spankee who had a daughter at school, she said that had a special agreement with the principal should her daughter get into trouble. I didnt feel right asking for more info than that, prefeerring to keep my fantasises to myself.
I had a brief interest in Christianity when I wanted to get into the panties of this Christian girl-she had a nice bum. She went to a Christian school in sydney where she was paddled This was in the 80's. In terms of parental spanking, I went to a bible study where a 18 year ld girl informed me 'my dad was still hitting me with a stick last year!'
I visited a prostitute once who told me that she went to a Christian school in penrith where the teacher caned girls and boys on their bare bum, though I didnt believe her.
So cp did occur but the times Ive heard of have been by women to students apart from the one I considered untrue, propbably. These are the very few times I have heard from girls about being spanked, unless you want to believe the multitude of male middle-aged 'teen' girls like 'jencheers' who frequent ning and yahoo groups and seem to be spanked all the time, right until they leave home!

Good day! Returning here after a substantial absence, I'm delighted to see that the standard of correspondence is as high as ever!

Perhaps I could add my tuppence-worth in support of the extensive evidence that Arnold is mistaken. Some years ago I posted a report (under a different name) of an incident which occurred when I was at junior school. This involved a female teacher punishing a girl, rather than a male teacher, but the punishment was given in front of a mixed class. For convenience, I repeat the relevant extract from that post here:


"... On the other hand, girls were punished only rarely. I once overheard a boy ask if girls got the cane, and one of the girls replied "no, they get the slipper", in hushed tones as though she had been threatened with it. I think it's almost certainly true that girls weren't caned at that school, but it's also certainly true that the slipper was used occasionally. When I was in the fourth year, we were sitting in assembly at the back if the hall, and the headmistress told us about a girl who had been persistently disobedient: "I was obliged to chastise her", she said. Now that in itself doesn't specify details, but an accompanying incident suggests that the girl had been slippered. What happened is that one of the girls in my class, also sitting at the back of the hall, whispered to us "that's what I got": and that brought back memories of an event three years earlier, when we were seven-year-olds in the first class of the junior school.

My classmate was called Barbara, and I can remember the event she recalled quite clearly, even after nearly half a century. In the first term of that year, our class was taken by a female teacher from New Zealand who was quite
strict on classroom behaviour, and regularly slippered boys who chatted or otherwise misbehaved. The drill was that the boy would be told to come out to the front and bend over the seat of a chair; the teacher would then give him a whack on the bottom with her slipper, and tell him to go and sit down. This was quite a common occurrance, with maybe one or two slipperings a week. But the memorable event arose when Barbara was caught talking to her friend. There was an air of expectation when she was told to come out to the front. We were about to find out whether she'd get the same punishment as the boys.

The command "bend over the chair" answered that question for us, and there were some murmerings from the boys -- "cor!", one of them said. He was told to keep quiet, or he'd get it, too. But that was just the hors d'oeuvre: we
didn't anticipate the performance that we were about to see.

Our school didn't have a standard school uniform, and Barbara was wearing a yellow jumper and a dark red courderoy skirt. She wasn't a tall girl, and her first attempt at bending over the chair wasn't far enough. Her response to the second command "more!" wasn't enough, either. The teacher put her hand on Barbara's back and pushed it forward, so that the girl's rear was sticking up. And then -- she looked at the thick courderoy skirt and pushed that forward, too, revealing a tight pair of navy-blue knickers. Now the murmerings couldn't be suppressed, and there was another, louder, "cor!"; the slipper was raised, and then whacked down once on Barbara's upturned bottom.

As far as I could see, the force of Barbara's punishment was about the same as for the boys, and so I guess it must have hurt her more, with just a single layer of cloth for protection. Certainly she was starting to cry as she walked back to her desk. And there was also the humiliation of her punishment having been witnessed by around twenty boys. ... "

*****

Thinking back to that incident, I have a feeling that the teacher hesitated for a second before taking the slipper out of the drawer, no doubt because slippering a girl was unusual. But my memory could be playing tricks. On the other hand, the event itself was certainly real. Indeed, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't name the school concerned, nor the teacher, as there's no question of anything illegal having taken place. (Neither the teacher nor the pupil has been mentioned on Friends Reunited, as far as I can see.) The school was Gladstone Park Junior Mixed, in Sherrick Green Road, near Dollis Hill station in north-west London; the LEA was Willesden, now part of Brent. The teacher's name was Miss Ward -- "A. R. Ward", according to the signature in my report book for that term, Autumn 1957. In fact Miss Ward left after one term, and our class was taken by a variety of other teachers, finishing up with Miss Bruce (who is mentioned on FR).

I don't have any knowledge of other girls being slippered at that school, though I imagine there were the occasional instances.

Here is a straightforward unembellished description of a girl being publicly caned on the bottom in front of a senior school assembly from the Derby Evening Telegraph.

The school is real and there is a large quantity of other detail about the school and teachers unrelated to this incident, showing that this is being treated by the author as just one memory amongst many. The event must be verifiable by some of the many witnesses, teachers, school records etc. The Evening Telegraph saw fit to publish it without challenge,adding a picture of the school in 1970, plus no challenge has arisen subsequently.

Anyway, here's the link. (Don't cause this one to be withdrawn or deleted!)

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/bygones/school-stick-arithmetic/article-282133-detail/article.html

At the risk of sounding kinky, I cannot open this link or find the article in the website?
Any chance of a brief resume of the event?

Not to worry it opened at last. As you say a matter of fact type report. Thanks.

I think this Lane guy and others just want someone else to do the research they're too lazy to do, LOL. Yes, in many places it's happened. Bratty kids are girls 25-50% of the time and teachers are male about 50% of the time so figure it out if it's a place where CP is allowed and normal. Mr. Lane can believe whatever he wants to and it's not gonna change the reality he doesn't understand or the reality that's different than wherever he's from.

Girls were slippered and caned at school back in the day.
Statistically nowhere near as often as the boys, and I`ve never heard references of the utmost severity, ie, drawing blood, etc.
But it did happen, and sometimes by male teachers.

Girls are also given the paddle (swats) in certain parts of the States to this day, and even more so back in the day.

Please see my website.


Paul
SF&R: sfrsite.topcities.com

Paul
SF&R: sfrsite.topcities.com

Ha ha - another Brit who went to a boys' school whines to his fellow British males that he never was in a school or country where corporal punishment of girls was perfectly normal.

While it is highly unlikely that girls were actually caned in front of the class I can assure you that even as late as 1989 girls were smacked in front of the class. I cannot say that this actually happened in a mixed school, but I attended a girls school in which having your bottom or the back of your legs soundly smacked at the front was very common.
This type of punishment was only administered by female teachers and any suggestion to the contrary is pure fantasy.

I used to work at a similar forum to this some time ago. Since I am only in my late twenties I never actually received or witnessed any type of cp myself but the moderator of the forum,a woman considerably older than me, assured me that there was cp of girls at school even in the early 1990s. I was a bit skeptical about this but she had no real reason to lie to me about it.

However she was quite adamant that only the female teachers could apply cp to a girl and in most cases it was relatively mild such as a slap across the back of the upper thighs or bottom. She did mention the slipper but I cannot recall any mention of cane or strap.

She also mentioned that a lot of the people that wrote to the forum were probably too young to have witnessed any cp themselves at school and were most probably just recounting stories they heard elsewhere. She completely rejected any accounts of male teachers administering cp to girls and only really believed that accounts of cp from female teachers to girls were genuine.

So because this person had no experience of girls being punished by female teachers it never happened?
A real good example of a real bad example.
Read Corpun and various articles on the net.
I assure you that sex made no difference where CP was concerned.

Why do these strange females? (who for some reason mostly seem to have names ending in 'a') think school CP began and ended with what went on at their school or in some unspecified (and probably mythical) Forum?

In some schools and at some times male teachers administered CP, from smacks to the cane with a variety of implements in between, to female pupils both in front of classes and in private. It happened! Get used to it! Sometimes the teachers involved overstepped the mark and were quietly invited to find other employment. Very occasionally they went way over the top and finished up in well publicised court cases. Mostly however they simply followed the written and unwritten rules applicable to CP in the schools concerned and nobody thought it exceptional.

It was happening when I was in Junior (Primary) school 50+ years ago, which happens to be my only direct personal observation of it. I'm as sure as I can be that it was happening in some secondary schools at the same time. Plenty of other people have posted their own experiences and observations of it in this estimable Forum, both in this thread and elsewhere. By modern standards it wouldn't be acceptable, but at the time it was absolutely normal.

Why is this issue such a big deal with Asquilia, Angelina and others of their ilk who've previously posted similar rubbish to the effect that it never happened? I only ask because I really would like to know!

Tis cause they are wind up merchants.....

You're probably right Mimi, but just in case they are real I feel it necessary to have my little rant. They should be made aware of the realities of the educational practices their sisters had to undergo in former years!

Anyway, how about if I float this one, it's about as accurate as the 'a' brigade's mantra:

Boys were never spanked or caned by female teachers. It wasn't allowed and just never happened. This type of punishment was only administered by male teachers and any suggestion to the contrary is pure fantasy.

I am afraid most of the contributors are not paying attention. I simply stated that I had no personal experience of cp at school nor did any of my female friends, most of whom are around the same age as me, late twenties. I never said it did not happen at some time in the past.

However if cp was used as frequently on girls as some contributors suggest, why have there been so few postings with credible accounts of same from actual females that would have been the right age to have experienced this? Apart from some accounts of mild cases of smacking I have not come across any.

How about because whenever anybody has posted that type of thing here (or had it copied and posted without permission from another place for that matter) they often find themselves being called a liar or have their sexual identity attacked or get subjected to all sorts of unwanted attention.

I was caned at school in Australia in the 1990s. I know this wasn't common, I'm pretty sure it was actually very uncommon for girls to be caned by then, and not that much more common even before then. But it did happen to me. And the abuse I've had to put up with because I dared to write about it. Well, I wouldn't encourage anybody else to put themselves up as a target for that. Even though I'd love to read it.

How about providing some details about this caning? Was the teacher female, was it done privately, etc.

Well Angelina, "most of the contributors" aren't the only ones who are not paying attention, you're a little deficient in that area yourself!

You say:

However if cp was used as frequently on girls as some contributors suggest

The majority of contributors to this estimable Forum who comment on this issue say that in mixed schools, especially in mixed secondary schools, girls were subject to much less CP than boys. A notable exception was a contributor called 'ink-lined plane' in this and other threads, but his premise that an absolute orgy of CP of schoolgirls took place in the 1950s to 1970s was derided by several people including me.

And you say:

why have there been so few postings with credible accounts of same from actual females that would have been the right age to have experienced this? Apart from some accounts of mild cases of smacking I have not come across any.

I'm afraid you haven't looked very hard! Excluding the (usually fairly obvious) fantasy posts there are a number of credible accounts by females who have been subject to school CP to be found in this Forum. However it seems to be generally accepted that females are likely to be more reticent about discussing their experiences in this area than males. It is perhaps therefore not surprising that there are a somewhat larger number of equally credible posts by males who happened to observe CP applied to female schoolmates. There are several of the latter in this thread. If you have a serious interest in the subject I suggest you do a little more research.

As the old saying goes, there are lies, damned lies and statistics - and there seem to be rather a lot of the latter in your post above Angelina, none of them supported by any hard facts!

For instance you say:

I do not claim to have any expertise in these matters but apparently her judgment was 90% accurate. This was confirmed later.

How?

I am not exactly sure how theses figures were confirmed since this happened quite some time ago and I was only in my very early twenties at the time. However I can assure you that the woman I spoke of was very intelligent and I am sure she knew what she was doing.

We used to refer to her as "Ms Sherlock Holmes". This was done with great affection of course since she was and still is a wonderful woman.

Unfortunately she had to close the original forum down because she could not secure enough advertising revenue at the time. I suppose today it would have been a different story. Never the less I understand that she is moderating some other forums at the moment, completely unrelated to cp, and as far as I know very successfully.

Regards
Angelina

If girls were never spanked or caned in the UK then the UK must've been a lot different than how some other countries were or are.

btw, love how the first poster said "never" and then "especially never by men." Um, does "never" mean zero or doesn't it?

I think the author meant that girls were rarely caned in the UK during the 1970s and 1980s.
Of course there is a big difference between caning and smacking. Most girls would have received some kind of smacking if they had attended a UK school during this time.

Either some of the contributors are under 30 or they have been living on another planet.
My schooling was at an all girls school in the UK during the late 1970s and early 1980s. Smacking was so common during that time that it was not even worth talking about.
There would hardly be a day go by when at least two or three girls were not called to the front. I lost count of the number of times I had to bend over the front desk and I was not a particularly naughty girl, although I will admit I was never caned or actually knew any girl who was.

Hi SMG, thanks for your post. Yes, you're really confirming what Asquilia suggests above, that the excessive emphasis in this kind of forum on caning (as if actual life were a kind of porno video!) has served to obscure ways in which much milder forms of CP happened on a regular basis at schools in the UK during the 1970s and 1980s.

Can you tell us more? What was used on you when you had to bend over the front desk, the hand or slipper? Was your skirt raised or not? How old were you when you last received it? (Did it stop in the 4th or 5th form, for example?) Did the girls enjoy it as a kind of light-hearted theatrical performance, or were people frightened by the spectacle?

How are you coping with this sudden influx of new lady posters, each with an interesting confirmation of one another's tales of chastisement?

Subscriptions Office must be working overtime!

Red rings have been put round their names and these contributors will appear on the Unsubscribed list in the very near future.

Hi Nero

In most cases just the open hand was used, usually across the top of the upper thighs. some teachers raised your skirt and some did not. The smacks were usually very hard and most girls were in tears when they returned to their seats or close to it. As far as I can remember the last time I was dealt with this way in front of the class was in form 5, but I was slippered privately by the headmistress a few times in form 6.

I may be dim but what is form 5 or 6 ? Not heard of in Brit?

I guess that this would be equivalent to years 11 and 12 in the UK.

The common class designations in the UK were different in the 1970s from what they are now, Mimi. 5th form would be five years after entering secondary school, i.e. about age 16.

Our gym mistress used to smack girls even in 6th form. But this was not usually in a classroom situation but either in the gym or outdoors during sport or p.e.

She was the strictest teacher at our school, but also the most popular. She sometimes substituted for other teachers because she could teach quite a few subjects at form 6 level, but I never saw her smack a 6th form girl in front of the class.

She had the best behaved classes for obvious reasons and was a great teacher.
You could have a joke with her, and as long as you did not cross the line everything was o.k. Very few girls dared play up when she was in charge.

Gym mistresses were a law unto themselves and could get away with anything.
Most handed out cp like they were handing out confectionery.
Can anybody come up with a logical explanation as to how they managed to get away with it for so long?

Thanks for your useful contributions, Leanne and Kathy. Again, I think part of the key here is that these were regarded at the time as relatively mild and informal punishments, just part of the general rough and tumble of everyday school life, and therefore not such a big educational policy issue as were more serious punishments, such as caning. In the case of gym teachers, there was an obvious added rationale that the class was by definition geared towards physical education, so that physical punishment (rather than lines or detention) obviously made a kind of immediate sense within that context. I agree with you that it's strange to look back on today, but times change of course.

You say your gym teachers gave out cp "like confectionery," Kathy, but what was it given for--forgetting gym kit, chattering, failing to do handstands properly? Were there times when the whole class got it all at once? Was it just hand slaps, or did it involve bending over for the slipper?

"gym teachers gave out cp "like confectionery," "

That's where my school went wrong - OUR PE teachers never gave out confectionery at all

What's happened to Arnold Lane? Was he real because there's
enough factual information regarding the corporal punishment
of girls to satisfy the most sceptical.

This confirms my suspicions that for the most part only relatively mild forms of corporal punishment were administered to girls during this time, and only by female teachers.

However I am very thankful to be young enough not to have experienced any cp myself while I was at school. I think I would have given all those so called 'games mistresses' a very wide berth. I always thought the slipper was just a myth. I stand corrected

You would indeed stand, because if you were corrected then you would have trouble sitting down.
And if you think girls were not caned you would be mistaken.
Also in the midlands, North and Jockland girls would be strapped by teachers of either sex. It would have been rare for any girl to have not got it at least once.
Look at SF&R for details.

Amen to that, Mimi. But unless these youngsters are somehow compulsorily teleported back into the classroom discipline our generations had to endure they ain't going to believe us!

The slipper sounds severe enough, as for the strap: include me out!!!

Gym mistresses and cp? Don't get me started.

While I will admit that gym mistresses were in general quite strict they were also usually among the most popular teachers.

My gym teacher in secondary school was a great teacher. She was an outstanding swimmer and won a commonwealth games gold medal in swimming (for Canada) when she was only 19. She was relatively young when she taught me (probably late twenties). All the girls really liked her.

She used to crack a lot of jokes during p.e. classes, although I cannot remember any of them, and they probably would not be funny out of context. If you were seen to during a lesson it was because you probably deserved it and all was forgotten soon afterwards. By today's standards she was very severe and probably overdid the cp, but in those days it was just part of everyday school life.

So, just for clarity Leanne, if you gym mistress was Canadian, did you go to school in Canada or in the UK? Also, were there any classes where multiple whackings took place, i.e. occasions when groups of girls were lined up and spanked, or was it all on an individual basis?

I actually did the last two years of my secondary schooling in Wellington in New Zealand, but that particular teacher was originally from Canada but had come to New Zealand just for that particular job. After I left school I was friendly with her for a few years until she went back to Canada.

Usually she punished the girls on an individual basis, but if two or three girls were all playing up at around the same time then she would call them to the front and make them wait. This happened to me sometimes. This made you very nervous because she was very unpredictable. You never actually knew what she was going to do to you.

Sometimes she just told you off in a light hearted manner and gave you a few slaps across the back of the legs or bottom. Sometimes she said nothing but slapped you really hard. If you were really playing up you got slapped and then sent to wait at the office where she would also slipper you. She knew how to you make a girl cry if she wanted to.

Most girls, including me really liked her but were also a little bit scared of her because she did smack very hard. Looking back, I suppose I could have been a bit of a brat at the time and probably deserved most of the smackings I got. Of course by today's standards it was way over the top.

Thanks Leanne, that's very interesting and gives us a vivid account of how such punishments actually worked in the old days.

Why is Nero talking to himself?

I was just being polite and showing respect for other people, yetanotherlurker, something this forum has tended to lack over the past few years, and which is perhaps one of the reasons real conversations have been so hard to come by.

Thank you Research Assistant 2. As ever in this estimable Forum a very pertinent contribution from a senior member of the Management Team at just the right time.

I am sorry that Nero has found this Forum to lack politeness and respect for other people. I myself have found the exact opposite to be the case. Perhaps Nero should spend a few days at the other place where he will find the characteristics he erroneously ascribes this forum in abundance!

Thank you Research Assistant for this clarification.

In which case my unreserved apologies to Nero.

I reserve judgement however, I'm afraid, on Leanne.

My congratulations to the Subscriptions Office who have recruited another two ladies to this esteemed foro - Evelyn and Sally - to contribute their valued information.

I wonder if Subscriptions Office could clarify, in view of the very similar literary style of the two ladies, whether they could possibly be related to each other, or in fact to any other person on the ever-growing membership list.

Thank you.

PS What ever happened to Carl and his mats who seemed to have some function in running of this message board?

I would like to congratulate Nero on his very eloquent and pithy comments. He is one of the few posters in recent times who has the vision and common sense to appreciate and distinguish the accurate postings from the myriad of fraudsters and wanna bes.

It is very refreshing to read his comments as opposed to those of the many naysayers and doubters who are clearly operating with very ulterior motives. Keep up the good work.

Colin,

Evelyn and Sally are very closely related to each other and also to Cassandra and Angelina.

Carl and his mats are “doing the business” in WORTHING. Big Ray’s Old Mum is our moderatrix-in-chief, but Big Ray still gets his ‘scaner’ out from time to time.

Were any of the female contributors ever actually part of a sporting team themselves, rather than extolling the virtues of their p.e. mistresses?

I was asked to train with the British commonwealth games swimming team in 1979.

Details?

I was caned twice at school. Three strokes for not wearing a bike helmet, and six strokes for bullying. Both were given by my Principal who was male, but the female Deputy Principal was present. The canings were pretty private. We had to line up with anybody else who was being punished that day so that meant you heard anybody who was in front of you in the line getting their caning, but you didn't get to see it and I think that if there were boys and girls in the line, boys were always caned first so they had gone by the time girls were punished. I don't know that for certain, though, it's just an impression I have and it is the way it worked the first time I was caned. There were two boys being caned that day, and they were punished before me and were out of the way before I got the cane.

I was caned at a private boarding school in Scotland by the senior mistress. I do not wish to go into too much detail about the reasons for the caning but it was a result of some incident in the dormitory.

It was done privately in her office before lights out. I was bent over the back of a chair and had my skirt lifted. I then received four strokes across my knickers followed by another 4 across the top of my upper thighs.

There was no caning in the actual classroom, but you could be slippered in front of the class across your knickers and bare upper thighs. This was not very common but was even administered to senior girls. The most common punishment was thigh slapping. Even minor misbehavior such as talking in class could result in as many as 6 very hard slaps across the top of each bare upper thigh.

Anybody who says girls were not subject to severe c.p. in the UK from around 1970 to 1990 are deluding themselves.

Your punishment seemed very severe. I think it would have been more appropriate to just give you a good talking to.

Thanks, Jessica. I agree with Melanie that 8 strokes of the cane sounds severe, but from what you say it sounds like a "one-off" incident, and of course you don't say what happened in the dormitory leading up to it. One of the boys at my school in the 1970s was actually expelled after being found with a girl in his bed there, and within that kind of context I guess that any kind of cp might be a preferential option.

Did girls get embarrassed in the classroom when they were called to the front to be smacked, or was it such a routine thing that everyone became inured to it? Were you told to touch your toes or bend over the desk, or was it done standing up?

Subscriptions Manager, I appreciate that your work load is a heavy one, and, as I have said many times in this estimable Forum, you and the other members of the Senior Management Team do a superb job under increasingly difficult circumstances.

However now that we are innundated with what I, and I suspect other visitors here, consider Fantasy Posters, it may be time to revive the Fantasy Postings thread so sensibly suggested by Ketta some time ago.

I appreciate that the work of transferring posts into that thread is very substantial and likely to overstretch the present Management resources. It may well be that this Forum, with its long standing and honourable traditions, operates a recruitment policy similar to that of the ancient Chinese Civil Service, where applying for a job automatically disqualified one from being eligible to do it on the grounds that anyone who would risk the loss of face involved in a failed application could not be a suitable person for the appointment. Nonetheless I'll take a chance! Should the Management Team be in need of any extra bodies to cope with the present exceptional circumstances I'll volunteer my services - no task too menial!

Another Lurker, I am not particularly interested in fantasy postings either, and obviously there are plenty of those around, on this forum and others like it. But considering that corporal punishment was not abolished in private schools in the UK until 1997, I do not find anything inherently implausible about some of the postings above. Without wishing to get into any kind of acrimonious debate with you (or anyone else), I would just add that as a general rule a blanket scepticism about the prevalence of corporal punishment in girls' schools suggests to my mind (1) a failure of historical imagination, an inability to conceive that the world could ever have been different from the way it is now, and/or (2) a psychological discomfort with what one finds sexually arousing, which subsequently gets displaced into a denial that certain narratives could ever have happened, so as to keep them, as it were, at a safe distance.

Halfpenny, as you are an Honorary Life Member of this estimable Forum it is with some trepidation that I, a relative newcomer, approach you on this matter.

I know that there were some unfortunate and distressing circumstances surrounding the previous appearance of your accounts in this Forum, which led to items being withdrawn at your request. However, your exellently written and most realistic accounts are still available elsewhere on the web, a total contrast to the ludicrous and clearly imaginary stories presently being posted here.

You have already given a brief outline of your school canings in your posting above. Is there any chance that you might relent and post a more detailed account here for the benefit of more recent visitors who will not have seen the original and those who, like me, are fed up with imaginary spanking swimmers and smacked thighs?

Subscriptions Manager, once again I have to congratulate you on the incredibly prompt and effective action which has characterised the management of this estimable Forum throughout my time here. I don't know how you do it, I am just very thankful that you do!

Nero, it is pleasant to encounter such a reasoned and non-confrontational rebuff as that contained in your posting above. I trust you will not object if I defend myself.

I do not have

a blanket scepticism about the prevalence of corporal punishment in girls' schools.

Nor do I have either:

A failure of historical imagination, an inability to conceive that the world could ever have been different from the way it is now.

or

A psychological discomfort with what one finds sexually arousing, which subsequently gets displaced into a denial that certain narratives could ever have happened, so as to keep them, as it were, at a safe distance.

I'm in my mid 60's. I've seen the world change hugely during my lifetime. I was at school when corporal punishment was the disciplinary norm for both sexes in most types of school. I am well aware that girls were subject to school corporal punishment. I've seen it in mixed infant and junior schools and although I was in a boys only school from age 12 I've heard credible accounts of it in mixed secondary schools and single sex girls schools. If you look way way back in this thread you'll find a couple of my postings on the subject.

What I find objectionable about some recent postings in this thread, several of them now where they belong in the FANTASY POSTINGS thread here, is the deceit involved in constructing a fantasy story and then attempting to make it appear true by posting under several different names, each post reinforcing previous posts under the other fictitious names. If a poster knows his or her story to be true why would they find it necessary to bolster it by deception? They can tell the story straight and deal with any doubts or questions raised by readers. If a poster cannot personally vouch for a story but believes it relevant and possibly true they can say so. Again no need for multiple identities and deception.

People who post under multiple identities to give credence to suspect stories may be ignorant, in that they do not realise that their postings can readily be identified as from the same IP address, and indeed from the same computer. Ignorant or not, they are displaying contempt for readers of this estimable Forum.

Rant over!

Another Lurker, I'm sure that we're both basically on the same side, in that we want to see this forum flourish, and I can well understand your impatience with the obvious fantasists. However, it has to be said that every reminiscence or memory always has something of the selective, and therefore the fictional, about it. One of the most famous accounts of a spanking memory comes in Jean-Jacques Rousseau's autobiographical "Confessions," where the narrator recounts being spanked by his governess as a child, yet many people recently have pointed to the elements of feigning, melodrama and exaggeration in this account. I would argue, then, that the question of what is "true" or "false" is never a black and white issue: many things get embroidered in memory.

Moreover, within the context of this forum--where (unlike in a court of law) empirical "truth" is both impossible to determine and not the ultimate goal anyway--it would seem to me that an obsessive concern among participants with what is authentic (or inauthentic) is likely to be counterproductive. Many people (particularly women) who might wish to make a positive contribution to this forum are likely to be put off by a wall of scepticism, sarcasm, having cold water poured over them, or being otherwise made to feel unwelcome. (The most obvious culprit here over the years has, of course, been Lotta Nonsense.)

With my best wishes to you, and to the always helpful Subscriptions Manager.

Reply to Nero.

It depended on the teacher and whether you were called to the front for a leg smacking or a slippering. Most teachers made you bend over and touch your toes for the slipper. Leg slapping usually involved bending over the front desk although some teachers slapped your legs while you were standing up with your hands on your head. Some teachers did not make you put your hands on your head but just turned you around and slapped away.

This type of punishment was quite common so most girls just accepted it as part of normal school life. Apart from inspecting the hand prints after, usually in the cloakroom or playground it was not really considered worth talking about.
I know this type of punishment sound harsh by today's standard where a teacher is not even permitted to speak harshly to a student, it was normal procedure in those days in an all girls school. There is no way it could have happened in a mixed school, and anybody who claims otherwise is living in fantasy land.

Thanks, Jessica. Your attention to detail here is fascinating, and helps vividly to re-create an era now gone forever!

Can I just clarify a point please? In his post of Oct 7 at 5:46 Nero calls me "Yetanotherlurker".

My name is in fact "Yetanotheranotherlurker". The second "another" comes from my mother's side of the family.

There is another family in Burton-upon-Trent I believe where the first "another" comes from the maternal line, but we are not related to them.

I wouldn't want anyone to believe there was an fantasy element involved or confusion about names.

Congratulations Jessica for being brave enough to tell your story.

Your experiences are very similar to mine. Although I now live in Europe, I attended boarding school in the UK during my senior years, which was not that long ago since I am now only in my very early forties.

My first term at boarding school was quite difficult and I found it hard to settle down in class. Consequently I was asked to visit the front desk quite a few time where Miss settled me down very quickly. It was all well deserved and
looking back I am thankful that the teachers in those days went to the trouble
to make sure that each girl reached her full potential by providing a secure and quiet learning environment.

Being a typical rebellious teenager I managed to get into all sorts of trouble in the dormitory, some quite serious. My reckless behavior earned me two visits to study of the senior mistresses.Both resulted in a sound thrashing, well deserved in both cases.

I eventually settled down quite well and I had a very enjoyable and productive stay. I gained excellent results in my matriculation and am now pursuing a very successful career in the field of international finance.

Best wishes to you and all the other female contributors that have the courage and eloquence to come forward and relate their experiences.

Nero, yes, I think we probably are both of the same mind as regards the future of this estimable Forum. However, I note that nowhere in your reply above do you address the issue of posting under multiple names. This is nothing to do with selective memory, black and white issues etc., it is outright deception designed to give credence to a spurious story, and, as I said, displays contempt for readers of this forum.

As regards selective memory, things being embroidered etc. you are absolutely correct. I have no problem with this, indeed I am probably as guilty as anyone else, especially as regards distant events. I well recall discussing several years after the event an 'interesting' (that's climber's interesting ) mountain trip with some of the participants in a very pleasant pub session when we all recalled incidents leading up to the accident, some of which, in the cold light of the next morning I was darned sure never happened!

You are also correct when you say:

"Many people (particularly women) who might wish to make a positive contribution to this forum are likely to be put off by a wall of scepticism, sarcasm, having cold water poured over them, or being otherwise made to feel unwelcome."

Doctor Dominum, whom I trust will not object to me quoting him, made this very point recently when he said in the 'Kinky Teachers - maybe not?' thread here:

"Can you imagine what it would be like to be a woman who as a girl was caned by a male teacher on their bare bottom, and to be on this forum? The amount of fantasies of that type lead to an automatic assumption by many people that any and all such accounts must be fantasies and that isn't necessarily the case. I would believe such cases would be extremely rare, and would almost certainly involve a teacher having acted inappropriately, but sometimes teachers have acted inappropriately, and a person who was the victim of that - well, it must add insult to injury for them not to be believed simply because so many fantasists have muddied the waters."

However I would ask you to note his final paragraph. In my opinion people who bolster the credence of spurious stories by posting under multiple names are fantasists who have 'muddied the waters'.

As regards Lotta Nonsense, I've defended her many times elsewhere and I won't do so again now. I personally think she contributed a lot to this forum and I am sorry that she has, temporarily I hope, disappeared from view. Personally, I am truly sorry if I have ever derided a poster, female or otherwise, whose story was actually true. One can only follow one's own judgements. The alternative is to believe everything, which would be ridiculous. A short time ago I did suggest here the idea of a thread where posters would be protected from the sort of mauling that can happen sometimes in this forum, but the idea certainly did not exite a great deal of interest!

Regards,

A_L

Making a reference to Halfpenny's post being last in the
queue must have been like a punishment in itself.
I know it wouldn't apply in Halfpenny's case, as someone
would have had to be last, but some teacher's seemed to
enjoy prolonging the actual caning or slippering.
This happened with both girls and boys.
I would imagine other people came across this if their school
used CP at the time they were there.

Your story is a very interesting one, Christina, and testifies to how common corporal punishment was in private girls' schools barely ten or twenty years ago. It is good to hear that you are flourishing today and feel able to talk about your experiences so sensibly. Do you remember experiencing any sense of guilty pleasure at seeing other girls called to the front desk to have their bottoms whacked all those years ago? Or is this something that has only occurred to you more recently and retrospectively?

My word, what a busy evening this is proving to be! Jessica, I have absolutely no problems with the vast majority of your 'Reply to Nero.' posting above.

Just one thing though, you say:

There is no way it could have happened in a mixed school, and anybody who claims otherwise is living in fantasy land.

Sorry, wrong, whether you are talking about the slippering or, more likely, the slapped legs!

In my mixed junior school (now called primary school) in the early 1950s I saw female classmates punished by all the methods you describe and a few other variants as well. The leg slapping was only done by female teachers, and the slippering by male teachers, whether by inclination or school decree I've no idea.

In the junior school (ages 8 to 12) only girls ever got their legs slapped, if boys were punished by a female teacher it was usually a long wooden ruler on hands or bottom, a fate which sometimes befell girls as well. In the preceeding infant school both boys and girls got their legs slapped with equal abandon (lads wore shorts up to age 13 or so in those days).

If you have time to look at my post of 11/04/2008 in this thread (very long I'm afraid) you'll see my own experience of a mass mixed front of class leg spanking as a little lad - very painful, I didn't like it at all!

It occurs to me that in your statement that I quote above you may have meant in secondary schools. In that case I can't contradict you from personal experience as beyond 12 I was in a boys only school. However, I think you will find that other people here can! Alternatively you may be guilty of what Nero, in one of his recent posts calls

A failure of historical imagination, an inability to conceive that the world could ever have been different from the way it is now.

and be assuming that what happened in schools you were familiar with happened everywhere for ever! Please enlighten me if any of these explanations are applicable.

Since I am only in my early twenties, in most cases I have absolutely no idea what some people are talking about. Please explain?

Hello Nero

I am a very conservative and timid person when it comes to discussing matters like that. I hope you do not mind but I prefer not to say.

Best wishes

Christina

Busy indeed, Another Lurker, and suggests to my mind how this forum can be much more vibrant and interesting when its general tone is more welcoming and less negative.

Dear Mr Another Lurker

what did you mean by the phrase 'other variants'? Could you please be more specific? Many thanks.

Melanie, as an elderly, and therefore totally non-threatening male habitué of this estimable Forum, I like nothing better than explaining things to young ladies in their early twenties. Please state what is perplexing you and I shall do my level best to assist. Unless of course you've been swept away in the next purge of fantasy posters when Subscriptions Manager comes back 'on-shift' tomorrow!

Oops, after a lengthy session at the climbing wall followed by all this typing I'm losing control of my fingers. The post above addressed to Melanie is of course from Another_Lurker, ie me, and not from some Icelandic refugee from the banking crisis called Anjother_Lurker!

My, what a lot of night owls we are on this estimable Forum! Does anyone have any theories regarding a link to an interest in CP? My insomnia is hereditary, excacerbated by years of shift working and being on-call 24/7, what's your excuse?

Asquith, you say:

what did you mean by the phrase 'other variants'?

Well, my dictionary defines variant as 'a different form of the same thing' and that's just what I meant. School CP is (or rather was) school CP. You got hit with something, generally on a fairly tender portion of your anatomy and (usually) it hurt. However, it came in infinite variety, from a mild slap on the hand to a master at my secondary school who used to hurl a heavy four foot window pole tipped with a vicious brass hook at you like a javelin. Fail to duck, and you'd probably have been dead. Luckily (for us that is, in those days teachers could slaughter pupils with impunity ) everyone managed to evade the 'business' end but most people sustained collateral damage (to use the current military terminology) from the pole as it flew past.

However Asquith, I suspect you mean variants in the context of Jessica's spanked legs and slippering which according to her never happened in mixed schools! Well, first, as we say in computing, RTFM (generally construed as Read The Friendly Manual - though there are other variants of this ), or rather read my my post of 11/04/2008 in this thread. That covers some of the ground.

Next, smacked legs was indeed a reasonably common punishment for girls when I was at junior school. Any disquiet I've expressed about references to it in this thread and elsewhere was directed at certain multiple personality (and multiple name) posters who seem to talk of little else, and was certainly not a denial that it happened. In my personal experience only female teachers used it, probably because when applied to the thighs it inevitably involved lifting dresses or skirts, albeit usually only on one side. Girls invariably wore dresses or skirts then and they were rather longer than they tend to be now.

Jessica describes various modus operandii for leg slapping. I saw all these used on occasion, but most teachers would simply pull their chair clear of their desk, sit down, position the girl on their non-spanking arm side, both lift her skirt on the side away from them and hold her secure with their non-spanking hand, then reach across and spank away. Sometimes the victim was held facing the class and spanked on the front of her leg, sometimes the opposite, and sometimes a sideways position was used with the side of the thigh getting the attention. That's three variants for a start! I don't recall a teacher chastising more than one leg though.

I don't think we boys got any sort of kick out of these occasional glimpses of our classmates' legs, or at least not over and above that concomitant with any classroom CP. We regularly saw the girls in PT knickers anyway and nether garments weren't exposed during the spanking process. Mostly you were just thankful it wasn't you getting some sort of punishment, which with a female teacher was usually the ruler (not your fragile 12 inch variety) on hands or bottom for boys.

One one occasion only a female teacher used what could have become yet another variant of leg smacking, though fortunately for the victim it didn't. A very timid and usually well behaved girl was involved. I can't remember what she'd done, but she was due to get the ruler on her hands. She wouldn't hold her hands out, and when the teacher attempted to hold them she struggled and tried to pull them away.

She might well have found herself subject to a more serious punishment, but instead the teacher persisted with the original sentence. The girl was made to sit on the teacher's fairly high (by child standards) chair and put her hands one by one palm up on her thighs with the grim rejoinder that if she moved her hand the ruler would hit her (skirted) legs. The resulting strokes were fairly mild, just enough for justice to be seen to be done, presumably because of the angle of her hands and the risk that the ruler might indeed hit her legs. To her credit the girl didn't resist and kept her hands in position.

That's enough variants for now! Bed time!

Since this topic seems to be getting out of hand I will need to jump in and set the record straight. I was a secondary school teacher from 1972 to 2000 and taught in many different types of schools including mixed school and private girls schools and even boarding schools (girls only). I will attempt to answer some FAQ. (all questions apply to secondary schools only)

Q1. Were girls ever punished in front of the class in a mixed school?
ANSWER: NO
Q2: Were girls ever punished in front of the class in a girls only school by
female teachers?
ANSWER: YES
Q3: Were girls ever punished in front of the class in a girls only school by
non-female teachers?
ANSWER: NO
Q4 Was discipline in an all girls boarding school more severe than in a
non-boarding school?
ANSWER: YES
Q5: Did all female teachers use some form of cp in an all girls school?
ANSWER: NO
Q6: Did some female teachers go overboard when using cp in an all girls school?
ANSWER: YES
Q7: What was the most common form of cp used on girls in a classroom situation?
ANSWER: OPEN HAND SMACKING
Q8: Were girls ever caned or strapped in front of the class.
ANSWER: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE

Case closed

Thank you Miss Antimony. Your effort has touched even my flinty heart. Seldom have I seen such drama and pathos so expertly and concisely combined within a single posting, capital letters and all!

Now please stop posting rubbish, go away and learn something about school CP in the real world and above all pay heed to Nero's dictum above regarding:

A failure of historical imagination, an inability to conceive that the world could ever have been different from the way it is now.

For

'it is now'

please substitute

'you think it was post 1972'

Later, relents slightly, having previously resolved to stop being nasty to people.

As you are probably aware one of the many possible derivations of the name 'Antimony' is from the Latin words Anti and Monos, meaning 'not alone' and you are certainly not alone in your assumption that your experience of school CP was the only school CP that ever happened anywhere.

Fortunately many other people, including myself, have a rather wider view, based a much larger timeframe than the relatively short period from 1972 to the total abolition of school CP.

Quite an interesting debate going on here.

Unfortunately, I've met too many people involved in 1970's-1990's education(through being pupils in it, mainly)to believe girls were ever regular recipients of CP in any state school.

And in front of the class, all-girls school or not, is simply the staple of MALE-written pornography & has been since the 1890's!

Private schools are, of course, often accepted as a law unto themselves. Unfortunately, even those institutions had parents to answer to, and by the 1970's, the parents of teenage girls would have been of Another_Lurker's age,and very probably enlightened enough to react in an appropriate manner to any perceived abuse of their daughters by slap-happy teachers.

In an appropriate manner would probably be burning the f***ing place to the ground with the abusing teachers lynched beforehand.

I'm happy to say I have had many good times with girls a lot younger than me, a trait I share with fellow South London laddie, Charlie Chaplin. I've also met and talked to many more girls who were schooled in that era.

I've never met ONE who was punished corporally in class at secondary level, and very few of the many who were either spanked at home or slippered/caned at school.

If I'd come across any schools that DID regularly chastise naughty teenage schoolgirls and also existed outside of fevered imaginations, I'd have been forging references and applying for a job there like a shot!


Steve M

As a practicing teacher of some years I must thank and congratulate Miss Antimony for having the courage to set the record straight. She is a true hero and I salute her.

While I may be a wee bit younger than our esteemed Miss Antimony I will admit in my early years that my front desk was always open for girls that needed an attitude adjustment. However for the most part of my teaching career c.p. had already been abolished. This is beside the point since I believe all her answers to the FAQ are correct.

As for those merchants of venom lurking in the shadowy world of cyberspace, shame on you.
What right have you to attack a proud member of the teaching profession such as Miss Antimony. She is obviously a dedicated individual who has devoted her life to helping others achieve their goals. I know some cynics would say that it was just for the money.
What a joke. Do you think a few measly pence can buy years of hard work, sacrifice and dedication. This is a woman who actually helps other people. She does not waste her life cloaking herself in the anonymity of cyberspace, waiting to emerge like the original lungfish that emerged from the slime to spew forth its venomous bile.

As a proud member of the teaching profession, once again I salute Miss Antimony and all her fellow teachers, whether they are in the UK or its dominions or in every other part of the world.

Steve old chum,apart from my foreign lady friend who is not from blighty I have not met one female who did not receive CP at school in Anglettere?

Mimi and Steve are both correct because they are probably talking about different events.

I think Steve means that he never met any girl that was punished in front of the class with some sort of implement,whereas Mimi probably includes slapping, which most people do not consider as a serious form of c.p.

So may I suggest that they hold hands and sing "coombaya" together (metaphorically speaking of course).

On reflexion I realise that I may have underestimated the contributions to the teaching profession and education in general made by Miss Antimony and Another Miss who have posted earlier in this thread.

I have therefore sought to atone by posting a tribute to them here which I hope will give some indication of the regard I have for their contributions to this estimable Forum.

In reference to the reply from Lurker to Asquith.

It all seems very complicated. Would it not have been a lot quicker and easier for the teacher to just ignore the misbehavior and get on with the lesson?

1. Lotta Nonsense announces retirement.

2. A large number of "interesting" posts from ladies such as Christina, Miss Antimony, Another Miss, etc. appear in this thread.

3. These interesting posts are well-written, and could be taken as plausible in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

4. The many posts by Lotta over the years were always well-written if sometimes rather forthright.

... and ...

5. Lotta claimed in the past (sorry, I can't provide a reference but it was somewhere in this Forum) to have posted several spurious entries to Friends Reunited, and used the fact that they were not contradicted to suggest that FR entries should sometimes be taken with a pinch of salt.

I rest my case.

Seeing you asked in such a charming fashion.

The following was written about three years ago.

My name - at least the name I am using here - is Penny. I live in Australia, I'm in my mid 20s, and I have had sexual and sort of sexual feelings about spanking ever since I was a little girl - before I was five, I know I got strange feelings when I watched other kids getting smacked, and when it happened to me as well. I was fascinated when it happened to other kids. I didn't like it when it happened to me, but at the same time I knew there were elements of it that had some strange appeal. I got smacked a fair bit as a child - not an unusual amount, but my parents certainly weren't among those who didn't believe in it. I just got smacked with their hands until I was about seven and then I started to get the wooden spoon sometimes up until my early teens.

I went to a school that still used corporal punishment - mostly on the boys, but girls got it sometimes as well. And I was pretty well behaved and I used to really get a kick out of hearing that somebody had been smacked or even been caned. I thought it was schadenfraude (not that I knew that word, but that was the reason I thought I liked hearing about it) until I was 14.

By 14, I knew about sex and I knew I had sexual feelings when I saw some boys I thought were really cute, or when I read stories in magazines. Then I was reading a book from the library - 'Ghosts I Have Been' by Richard Peck. This book was about a girl called Blossom Culp growing up in American at the start of the twentieth century.

Quite early on in the book was a scene where a boy at her school bashed her and another girl up, and when Blossom woke up after being knocked out, she could hear the sounds of the boy getting thrashed with a paddle. Reading that passage made me feel a little strange, but I shrugged it off. But then a bit later, Blossom is talking to some girls - making a prediction of what will happen to them because they cheated on a test - and there's a great line that burned itself into my brain.

"But I can hear the sounds of bottoms being smacked and shrieks of pure pain."

That line aroused me - and I knew it had. It sort of came on me in a flash at that point - smacking and spanking and caning and all those things turned me on. This was sexual. It was such a profound realisation.

Over the next few weeks, I started exploring this in any way I could think of. I tried to steer conversations with my friends around to their experiences but that was hard because I didn't want to make them suspicious, I looked up every topic I could think of in the school library - looking up words like cane and spank in dictionaries, seeing what I could find in encyclopedias, looking at books on places like ancient Rome, turning to the chapters on schools just to see what they mentioned. There was a great social studies textbook - unfortunately I have no idea of the title - which had a drawing of a boy getting spanked in it, as well as a discussion on paddling in American schools. I made sure I walked past the Principal's office at the start of every lunchtime (all canings were carried out at lunchtime) so I could see if anybody was waiting to be caned and if they were I used to try and sit under the Principal's office window so I could hear what was happening - I wasn't game to try and watch.

And finally I decided to get myself caned.

As I said, my parents had smacked me when they thought I deserved it while I was growing up and I really didn't like it - even though I did have some positive feelings about it. They smacked with their hands until I was about seven and then they started using the wooden spoon and I really didn't like that much at all. I didn't get it that often, I don't think - maybe three or four times a year (actually that sounds like a lot, but it didn't seem that way at the time) and it started to get less common after I reached secondary school when I was 12 - I suppose that by the time I was 14, I'd got the spoon three or four times in the previous two years and hadn't got it at all for six months or so.

My school - a private school - still used the cane. Most of the times boys got it, but the school believed in equal opportunity and that meant that if a girl earned a caning it could happen. Girls didn't get it as often, mostly because they didn't do the things that got you caned as often, but I think also they tried a bit harder to avoid using it on girls. Equal rights meant it had to be allowed, but I don't really think that it was as equal as they probably said it was.

People only got the cane for pretty serious stuff, and most kids going through the school never even came close to getting it.

After I worked out that this was a sexual thing for me, I started to fantasise a lot about physical punishment. I imagined getting smacked in all sorts of ways. I looked up any references I could find to smacking and spanking in books, for example. But one of the big things I did - I used to walk past the Principal's office at the start of every lunchtime to see if anyone was lined up waiting to be caned - the way it worked was all canings were done during lunch, though I didn't know the whole procedure at that stage. If I saw people waiting, I used to head around to a bench that was just under the Principal's window to hear what I could hear. You could never hear the talking - at least not clearly, although sometimes the Principal did yell and you heard a bit of that, but you could hear the cane hit and sometimes you heard the person who was hit yell out. That didn't happen often - but the whole experience really did turn me on a lot.

I suppose I saw boys lined up once or twice a week on average - this didn't happen everyday, but it happened reasonably often. Girls - once, maybe twice a month. Sometimes it was one person, sometimes it was two or three - occasionally even more. A lot of people tried to seem tough and stood there as if they didn't care, but sometimes people were crying as they stood there waiting. I moved on as fast as I could past the lines - you really couldn't stay and watch.

And whenever I saw anyone, unless it was raining, I used to go and sit on my perch. Most of the time I got a seat there - occasionally it was occupied and I couldn't. That used to really upset me.

To start with, hearing the cane and imagining what was happening was enough for me - and imagining myself in that situation later. But over time, over six or seven months, I suppose, I began to want more. I wanted to feel it, I wanted to be punished, physically punished myself.

I had two possible ways of doing it - my parents or the school. My parents would have been easier - while by the time I was thinking of this, I hadn't got the spoon for a year, it'd been made clear to me more than once that this was just because I hadn't earned it. If I did, I would get it, and I could have come up with a way of provoking my parents into doing it. But as I say, I knew this was a sexual thing and the idea of getting my parents to smack me for sexual purposes seemed a bit too out there. I wouldn't have objected if it happened - and I was still scared of it, I have to say, because even though the idea turned me on I wasn't quite sure if it really would live up to my expectations and I knew that it hurt. But I wasn't going to provoke my parents into punishing me just because I found the idea arousing. That left the school - but the problem with that was that the cane was used only for pretty serious misbehaviour and I was a pretty well behaved girl. I didn't want to do any of the things that I knew would get me caned, because they would also wreck my reputation with my teachers and friends. You know, I could have done something like stolen something and got deliberately caught - but that would have wrecked my reputation for honesty. What I needed was something that would get me caned, but which wouldn't be regarded as really bad. But there wasn't anything like that.

But that changed one day at our Monday morning assembly.

The school is located in an inner city area - an area surrounded by a lot of busy roads. Most kids came to school by walking if they lived close enough, or catching public transport if they lived far enough away. But a minority rode our bike to school.

There were strict rules on riding a bike because of the traffic. Nobody could do it at all until they were 12, and before you were allowed to ride your bike to school, you had to get a bike licence - this was just something the school did. To get your licence, you had to pass a test on the road rules, and you had to go on a ride with one of the PE teachers who would make sure you knew how to ride safely in traffic. I'd got my licence when I was 12 - I lived about a fifteen minute bike ride from the school, about a forty five minute walk - three quarters of an hour seemed a bit long to walk to and from school, and while I could have used public transport, the bike was cheaper. So I rode to and from school every day. My ride was actually a pretty safe one, because a lot of it was on a bike path through a park, but I still had to pass the test and get my licence.

At this assembly the principal announced that he was getting complaints from the police that children from our school had been seen riding bikes without wearing helmets. The law said we had to wear bike helmets and so did our school rules. This type of issue came up a lot at assemblies - not always about bike helmets, but about things like behaviour on public transport and in shops after school, and I didn't really pay that much attention to them because I generally behaved myself. But this time he got my attention because he was obviously more angry about it than normal (or at least pretending to be angry) and he ended by saying that he was sick of this issue recurring and so he was giving us a very clear warning that anyone caught riding to or from school without a helmet would be liable to be caned. It was very dangerous and it was illegal and it would be dealt with very severely.

That got my attention. Because riding a bike without a helmet didn't seem to me to be that big a deal really in terms of being really bad. Not a reputation destroyer certainly. But he said that people would be caned if they did it - and it was something I could do, because I rode a bike to school.

The real question was did I really want to do it. The idea appealed to me, but at the same time scared the stuffing out of me.

I went home that afternoon, went through the evening, and went to bed still thinking about it. And I hadn't made up my mind. But when I was in bed, I had ample opportunity to fantasise and indulge my fantasies and imagine being caned and the idea - now that I knew there was a much more realistic chance I could make it happen - really appealed to me an awful lot. And so before I fell asleep, I decided, mostly, that I would do it. I would break the rule in order to get myself caned. I was still scared of the idea, but I convinced myself that people obviously survived the cane so even if it proved to be absolutely awful and horrible, and nothing like I hoped, at least I'd know and I wouldn't be wondering all the time from then on. To be honest, I suppose I was a bit disturbed by the realization that I was sexually strange - and I think looking back on it, I thought that the worst result would be that this 'cured' me of that even if I didn't like it. It seemed sort of a 'win-win' situation.

I slept well, but woke up earlier than normal. I went to the bathroom to have my shower and I spent quite a lot of time looking at my bottom in the mirror before I got into the shower. When I was showering, I paid a lot of attention to washing my bottom properly - it just seemed right somehow to have it in a peak condition for this plan. When I dressed, I actually looked at my briefs to see which pair seemed thinnest, and I wore summer uniform - we had a choice at this time of year - because summer dresses were thinner that our winter skirt. If I was going to do this, I was going to do it properly.

When I left for school, I wore my helmet - my mother might have seen if I hadn't, and besides I wasn't a fool - I knew the rule existed for a reason. I wore my helmet until I was nearly all the way to school. Just before I left the park, I stopped, took my helmet off and put it in my bag. Then I rode the rest of the way to school. I'd made sure I would arrive after the time I knew a teacher would be supervising arriving cars - what I hadn't counted on was it being my own year co-ordinator. As I came through the gate, she called my name and demanded I explain what had happened. I told her that I'd forgotten my helmet and she instructed me to see her at recess. As I went into school after putting my bike in the racks I was already starting to have some serious second thoughts about what I was doing - but it also seemed a little late to be having such second thoughts. I was nervous all through the morning and when I went to see her at recess, I was really very nervous.

As soon as she had me in her office, she started lecturing me about the reason there were rules about wearing bike helmets. I endured the lecture - not that I had a choice - but by halfway through recess I started to get worried that she was taking this so seriously that maybe this was all the punishment I was going to receive. I'd expected her to tell me off and then to tell me that I had to see the Principal at lunchtime and to give me one of the notes I'd seen kids carrying as they waited outside his office. Recess was nearly over when she stopped lecturing me. As far as I can recall, what happened next was something like this.

"Give me your licence," she said.

"What?"

"Give me your licence. I'm suspending it until the end of the year - you can try and earn it back at the start of next year."

"Please, Miss! I need my licence to get to school."

"You can walk, or catch the tram."

"Oh, come on, Miss - walking takes an hour, and the tram costs money. I need my bike."

"Now, you look here - I'm trying to be generous. Didn't you hear the Principal yesterday? If I send you to him, you will get the cane. Do you want to get the cane?"

Now that it came down to it, I wasn't sure again if I did. I seemed to switch between wanting it and not wanting it - and suddenly I really didn't want it. But at the same time, a hour extra each day traveling to and from school - or spending my pocket money on tram tickets - those options didn't appeal either. If the choice was a detention or even two detentions, I think I'd have taken it - but I needed my bike licence.

"No Miss, but... I need my bike licence... I really do..."

She opened the drawer of her desk, rummaged around and pulled out a sheet of paper. She wrote at the top of it, and then halfway down the page. Then she put it in an envelope - the letters I'd seen kids carrying outside the office had often been in envelopes so I assumed it was one of those - and it was, but there was a detail I did not know about.

"Show that to your parents tonight - have them sign it, and take it to the Principal's office tomorrow at lunchtime."

I hadn't bargained on that at all, and I took the envelope in something of a daze, as I walked to the door. As I left, she told me that even keeping my licence, I'd obviously have to walk home that afternoon - because I had better not dream of riding home without a helmet.

I really spent the day in a daze. I'd expected to get everything over and done with by lunchtime - but now it was going to drag on for an extra day. I got told off for inattention a few times, but when my friend told the teachers it was because I was going to be caned, they gave me a lot more leeway - especially when they found out I hadn't done anything really seriously wrong. I mean, I had broken the rules, so I don't think the teachers had much sympathy for me, but it seemed I was right about the reputation thing - this wasn't going to cause me to be labeled as a bad girl from now on, or anything like that. A stupid girl, maybe - but not a bad one.

I did have my helmet in my bag and so I did ride home - rather slowly I suppose, but I had to go home, because I had nowhere else to go. When I finally got home, I went inside where my mother was starting to prepare dinner. Without a word - because I didn't know what to say - I handed her the envelope. She opened it, and read it - and I watched her expression turn rather cloudy.

"Do you know what this says?"

"I think so."

"It says that you rode to school today without a bike helmet - and that because of that, you're going to get the cane tomorrow."

I almost passed out when she said that. Of course, it was what I had been aiming at - but the clear announcement was still a surprising shock.

"I have to sign this to sign this so they can cane you. Look at it."

She passed it over and I looked at it. It was a form letter - at the top, a salutation had been filled in address to both my parents and halfway down the page was a space where the crime could be written in. Under that was a passage that reminded my parents that corporal punishment existed as part of the schools disciplinary procedures, and that their agreeing to its use was a condition of my enrolment. If they refused to sign the letter, it was possible that they could be asked to withdraw me from the school.

There was also, at the bottom of the typing, just above my coordinator's signature, a rather ominous pair of boxes. One was supposed to be ticked if the school wanted the parents to reinforce the punishment at home. One was ticked if the school felt that this was unnecessary. I was relieved to see that in this case, the second box had been ticked.

And under that were spaces for both my parents to sign, that gave permission for corporal punishment to be inflicted on me.

"Why does this say you weren't wearing a helmet? I saw you wearing a helmet. Is this some sort of mistake? Do you want me to phone the school."

I didn't have a good answer for that, but I knew an answer was expected. So I owned up that I had taken my helmet off before I got to school - and when I was asked why, all I could say was lie and say it was a dare. At that stage, my mother blew her top. She walked over to the drawers opened them, rummaged around, and pulled out the wooden spoon.

I fell to pieces at this point, and I begged her not to give me the wooden spoon. I pointed out that the school hadn't ticked the box asking her to punish me as well, and I pointed out that I was going to get the cane and surely that was punishment enough. She didn't pay any attention - she just grabbed me by the arm and pulled me over to the kitchen bench and pushed me over it. I objected verbally but I went where I was put. Once I was there, she lifted up the back of my dress to expose my underwear and gave me four hard whacks on each side of my bottom. I yelled and screamed, because it hurt a lot. An awful lot. But at least she hadn't pulled down my briefs - she'd only ever done that once with the spoon. Still it did hurt, and I really thought at that moment that my whole plan had been a really bad one.

As I stood up crying and rubbing, she took the form out of my hand - I was still holding it and left me standing there while she found a pen and signed the form. When she spoke to me again, her voice was calm and even pleasant.

"Go to your room and have a good cry - I'll call you when dinner is ready. And you'll probably want to wear thicker knickers tomorrow."

I went upstairs and into my bathroom where I stripped off my dress and pulled my underwear down to look at my bottom in the mirror. There were two red marks - one on each side - kind of round but not exactly and as I looked at them, I really did start to feel aroused. I was hurting, but I was also feeling very warm and so I stood there and I rubbed myself as I looked at the marks and imagined what the marks of a cane might be like. By the time dinner came, I was feeling a lot better about the choices I had made. My father had arrived home and he signed the note as well - but he didn't get angry or anything - just told me that he hoped this wouldn't ever happen again and left it at that.

The next morning was a repeat of the first one. I went into the bathroom and looked at my bottom. All signs of the wooden spoon had faded and when I felt my cheeks there was no tenderness to speak off. I showered carefully paying attention to my bottom, and again selected another thin pair of briefs - my mother might have given me good advice from her perspective but I knew what I wanted. I put on another summer dress and went down to breakfast. Mum had cooked me a proper breakfast - pancakes with golden syrup instead of the weet bix I normally had. Before I went out the door, she gave me the note in an envelope and then gave me a big hug.

"Don't try and be too brave, dear."

I rode to school - as I passed through the gates, my year coordinator was there again, and so was the teacher on duty. As I went through the coordinator called me over and asked me if I had the note signed. I said yes - and she told me to come and see her at recess again - and to bring my helmet with me.

Again, once I got into class my attention wandered a bit. I was less doubtful about my plan than I had been earlier, but I still had some doubts and I was still nervous. Teachers continued to make allowances for me, but one did say that she hoped I would be back to normal by tomorrow.

At recess, I went to see my coordinator.

She told me to sit down and she took my helmet and looked at it closely. Then she told me that it had been her plan to call me in this morning and give me a chance to avoid the cane - she had been going to offer me a two week suspension of my bike licence, in the hope I'd been scared straight by the thought of the cane.

But she'd seen me leaving the school the previous day on my bike - wearing a helmet. She'd considered the possibility that I'd somehow borrowed one but my helmet had stickers on it from a radio station so she knew that this was the helmet she had seen - and checking it now it had my name inside so it was clearly my helmet.

Therefore I had lied leaving my helmet at home. And she wanted to know why.

The only explanation I had was the same one I had given my mother. That I had deliberately not worn the helmet as a dare. She asked me who had made the dare and I refused to answer. And so she decided that she would not offer me a way out - and wrote a note which she placed in an envelope. I was now to give both these notes to the Headmaster at lunchtime. She told me that I had permission to leave class 5 minutes before the lunch bell so I could use the toilet and made sure that I knew I had to line up outside the principal's office within two minutes of the start of lunch.

The time between recess and lunch seemed to stretch out forever - but it also seemed to pass way too fast. As we got closer and closer to lunch, I got more and more nervous and really started to think that I was the stupidest kid in the world for making this happen. I wanted to stop it, ten minutes before lunch - and it seemed really unfair to me when I realised that I couldn't. I felt like - I've made this happen. I should be able to stop it. But I couldn't - and that thought terrified me. Five minutes before the bell, I asked for permission to leave and was allowed to. I went to the toilet and then as the bell went, I headed to the office.

Today there were two boys there, also standing there with notes. One was older than me - fifteen or so, the other was twelve - his sister was in my class. Both stood there stoically, as did I, as people filed past us on their way outside with their lunch. Some people looked at us sympathetically, others smirked. I really didn't want to be there, at that point. After everybody had passed us, the younger boy started crying - just quietly - and I knew how he felt. The older boy didn't cry, but he kept biting his lip and his hands kept, unconsciously rubbing the seat of his pants.

A few minutes into lunchtime the door opened and the Principal stepped out. He looked at the three of us - then pointed at the younger boy who followed him in. The door was shut, but through the door I could hear a lot more than I'd ever heard from outside. There was a pause and then the talking began. The boy had teased a girl in his class - called her fat - and the Principal spoke to him calmly and quietly about why that was wrong. It was hard to hear the boy - his voice was much quieter - until he suddenly started saying 'No, please, don't...' just once. The Principal told him to stop his nonsense and he stopped instantly. I heard the instruction to bend over - and a thrill went through me for an instant - I'd wondered if that was really said. Then a swish and a crack and crying, and a second swish and a crack and more crying, and then a third swish and a crack, and pitiful sobbing. This really did arouse me - but it also made me shudder in fear. Two things at the same time, both made more powerful than the other. I looked at the boy still outside to see what he was doing. There was a tear rolling down his cheek at this point.

The door opened and the younger boy came out of the office, rubbing his bottom and sobbing his little heart out.

The Principal followed him out and gestured at the other boy - and then looked at me and said: "I'm sorry you are having to wait so long, but it's unavoidable." They both went inside and this time the Principal was not at all calm. "You again!" was the first thing he said - and it rapidly became clear that this older boy was being punished for bullying. Well, he got a taste of it, from the Principal I think - he tore strips off him for about ten minutes as I stood there getting more and more nervous - this seemed to have been a really bad idea and the thought of having to face an angry Principal made it so much worse. After ten minutes though the Principal seemed to bring himself under control - and I could hear a lot of crying coming from the room as he said "Bend over." This time there were six swishes and cracks and they seemed harder than the ones before. When the door opened and the two people emerged, the Principal had his hand on the boys shoulder and seemed totally calm. He told the boy he didn't want to see him in this situation again - but if the boy wanted to drop in to talk he could do so anytime. I'm not sure the boy heard. He limped down the hall.

The Principal invited me in, and asked me for my note. I passed both envelopes over and he opened them and read them. While he was doing so, I looked at his desk - I could hardly avoid doing so, because sitting on it was a very interesting object. The cane was much shorter than I expected it to be - I would say it was about sixty centimeters long. It was a brownish yellow colour, and was pretty smooth but had kind of knobs along its length that had been flattened out somehow. It was sitting on a large black and red notebook which had the words 'Punishment Register' on its cover - both the book and the cane looked quite old to me - I know why the book looked old - it was a bit tattered, but looking back I can't figure out why the cane seemed old.

From what I can recall, after he'd read them, the conversation went like this - I'm not certain how accurate this is really, because I was very nervous and scared - and just a bit aroused at this point.

"Were you at assembly on Monday?"

"Yes, Sir."

"So you heard me talk about bike helmets?"

"Yes, Sir."

"And yet on Tuesday morning - on a dare - you rode into school without one?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Well, this is very serious. I cannot have rules like this blatantly ignored. I'm going to have to punish you quite severely. Tell me - have you ever been physically punished by your parents?"

"Yes, Sir."

"That's good." It seemed like a bit of an odd thing for him to say. He was silent for a second and then he spoke quite forcefully.

"Do you want to be caned on the hand or on your bottom?"

I almost passed out when he asked me that question. The Principal was, I suppose in his forties if I had to guess - old, but still young enough to be quite attractive. He was a nice man too - quite a lot of girls had crushes on him over my time at the school. I didn't but I could understand what they saw in him.

What got me though was his using the word 'bottom'. It wasn't a word I was used to hearing from a male. Backside - that seemed like a male word to me. 'Bottom' just didn't - and when he said it, it seemed like such a sexy word - an odd thing to say, but it's the only way I can describe it. Not that he said it in any sexy way. It was said in an entirely neutral, entirely matter of fact way, as if this was naturally the entirely appropriate word to use. And I suppose it was.

I hadn't expected to be offered this choice. I'd never actually heard of someone being caned on the hand at my school. I knew people were caned on the bottom. And that is most definitely what I wanted.

"On my bottom, Sir." It was just as thrilling when I said the word - but it was also, once again, frightening - because I knew it was a closer step.

"Very well. Wait here."

He walked to the door and out of it. He returned after about thirty seconds accompanied by our Deputy Principal - a lady. She came into the room, while he waited outside and I wondered if she was going to cane me. Now, I didn't really care if it was her - but at the same time... well, I suppose I did care, I would rather be caned by him. She leaned close to me and asked quietly. "Are you on your period?"

I shook my head. The Principal entered the room, and glanced at her and she shook her head. I guessed that was the reason for the offer of the hand as an alternative target. He stepped across to the desk and picked up the cane.

"Bend over."

I'd expected to have something to bend over - a chair, or the desk. But I was standing in the middle of the floor, and so I just bent over and touched my toes. That seemed to me to be the most appropriate choice.

He stood quite close to me on my left side. I felt the cane placed across the seat of my skirt and then it wasn't touching me anymore. Then there was a line of pain carved across the centre of my bottom, and I was bawling like a baby. I stood up - I couldn't help myself. The cane hurt a lot more than I had expected. Then I felt the cane touch my bottom again - while I was standing - and I decided I had better bend over again. I did so, and again touched my toes. As soon as I did so, there was a second explosion of pain. This was a lot worse than the wooden spoon. Again I stood up. Again the cane touched my bottom. This time I didn't bend - I thought that if I didn't, he would wait. He didn't. This stroke hit me while I was standing upright and god, it hurt. I could feel the tears pouring down my face. The cane touched me again and this time I bent really in a futile hope to get away from it.

"That's three for not wearing a helmet. Do I need to give you one for taking the dare?"

"No, Sir!"

"You won't take a stupid dare again?"

"No, Sir!"

"Very well. Stand up."

I did so. I was crying like I'd never cried in my life. My whole bottom was burning in absolute agony.

He took my shoulder and lead me to the door which he opened and I walked through followed by him and the Deputy Headmistress.

"I hope I don't have to see you again like this." And then he let me go, stepped back into his office and closed the door. The Deputy Headmistress walked past me and headed towards her office. I went and hid in the toilets until the bell ended for the end of lunch.

The pain of the cane faded away in a few minutes. By the end of lunch, I'd managed to compose myself reasonably well and the rest of the day passed without real incident. A few friends expressed sympathy and asked me a few questions which I answered as well as I could. Then I rode home.

When I got home, I bypassed the kitchen and ran upstairs to my room. I felt the need for a shower - and so I went into the bathroom and stripped off, and stood looking at my bottom in the mirror.

It was marked with three quite angry looking lines - that were quite shocking but very arousing indeed. I touched them and they were slightly raised and there was what seemed to be bruising around the edges. I was becoming very aroused at this point but before I could do anything about it, there was a knock at the door.

"What?"

"Can I come in?" It was my mother.

"I'm nude."

"I want to see the damage."

So I unlocked the door and let her in. She took me by the shoulder and turned me around so she could see my bottom. I expected her to be shocked, but her voice was calm.

"I expect that hurt."

"Yes, Mum."

"Good. Hopefully that means it won't have to happen again. Now have a shower."

I did have a shower. But, of course, I did more than just that. This was intense. I certainly wasn't cured. But I decided I didn't really want to be.

But I didn't think I'd deliberately get myself caned again.

My second caning at school, and this time there wasn't anything
deliberate about it. This story is probably somewhat embellished - I
certainly can't remember exactly what was said at all stages, and so
conversations are just similar to what was said. I do have a photocopy
of the letter sent home to my parents and so that prompted a few
memories of the discussions I had with my mother that would have
otherwise been lost, so I think there's a good chance there are other
things I have forgotten as well. I tried writing this totally as a
list of the facts and it turned out very dull for me to write and I
guess probably dull to read so while this isn't perfectly true, I
think it's close enough and interesting enough to actually be
interesting. At least I hope so.

This all took place when I was 15 years old and probably about six
months after my first caning. I was attending a co-educational private
school which was one of only a fairly small number of private schools
still using physical punishment (which they referred to as
'traditional discipline') where I lived (the state government actually
announced last week that physical punishment will soon be banned in
private schools, which is probably a very good thing, but I am glad
that they hadn't done that when I was at school). At the time this
happened, I was aware that the idea of physical punishment was
sexually charged for me, and it had become a common part of my fantasy
life. In terms of my real life... after I'd got myself deliberately
caned at school the previous year, I'd decided that this wasn't
something I would deliberately seek out again. I had enjoyed the
aftereffects of it and I really liked the memory of it, but the actual
experience had been considerably more painful than I had expected and
I didn't really want it to happen again. And because I was well
behaved at school and because the cane wasn't used all that often and
really wasn't used on girls all that often, I didn't really expect it
to happen again.

At home, I had managed to get the wooden spoon from my parents twice
in the previous six months (not including the time I'd got it just
before my first caning). It wasn't common but I don't think my parents
wanted me to get the idea that I was too old for it. But I really
hadn't done anything really seriously wrong at home either - getting
smacked wasn't seen as a really serious punishment or anything.

A few weeks after the school year started, my whole class went on
school camp - this happened every year, we just went away for a week
as a class. It wasn't real camping in tents or anything like that - we
went to a location in the bush or near the beach and stayed in huts
and did activities like orienteering and ropes courses and
bushwalking. I'm sure there was supposed to be an educational purpose
to it, but we really saw it as a little holiday.

We were assigned to rooms randomly among our sex. They did this at all
our camps to try and break up friendship groups so we would get to
know other people. And this particular year, I was put into a room
with five other girls - I'll give them all names so we can keep them
straight (and I will use the name Penny).

There was Kylie - Kylie was a rich bitch. She was mean and nasty, a
bully really, who loved to give everyone she didn't like a really hard
time. She was popular among some of the girls and a lot of us who
didn't like her pretended that we did because we didn't want her to
start picking on us. She was a ringleader, head of a little clique.

At the other end of the social scale was Michelle. Michelle was a bit
of a geek. She was pretty smart, but mostly what made her a geek was
that she didn't fit in very well socially with other girls. She wasn't
really interested in the same music as most girls, or clothes, or
makeup, or anything like that. It was silly things too - well, they
seemed silly at the time - like the fact she always used to wear a
singlet, which everybody saw when we changed for PE, and she always
avoided showering after PE. And she got away with it too.

She lived with her father and brothers, and I really don't think she
had anyone to tell her much about girly stuff, even if she had been
interested. She really wasn't that different from the rest of us, but
she was different enough that being stuck for most of five days in
contact with Kylie - well, the teachers should have known better, I
think, than to make that happen.

Besides Kylie and Michelle and me, there were three other girls in the
room - Tasma, Jackie, and Chloe. They were... well, just ordinary
girls really. Like me. Tasma was on the fringes of Kylie's clique and
so they latched onto each other, but Jackie and Chloe and I were not
really a part of that. We weren't in the popular kids, but we weren't
unpopular either. This story though, mostly concerns Kylie and
Michelle - and me, because I'm the one telling it. But my part in it
was strictly supporting cast along with a number of others.

The camp was a pretty nice one. Some camps we went to were very
rudimentary - old wooden huts deep in the bush. This one was new, and
was near the beach. It wasn't luxurious - but there was carpet on the
floor and the toilets and showers were actually in the same buildings
as the rooms we were occupying. On some camps, we had to walk to and
from ablutions blocks and I always hated that. This was much better in
most ways - but the increased privacy was a problem in terms of
teachers supervising us. To know what was going on in the rooms, they
had to walk down a corridor past our rooms rather than just past huts,
and the modern insulation probably made it harder to hear what was
happening as well.

Trouble started the first day - we got to the camp site a little after
lunchtime and after we'd eaten and unpacked (which mostly consisted of
dumping bags on the beds to claim them, it was decided that we would
go down to the beach for a swim.

The list of clothing we were supposed to bring on the camp was quite
clear that girls had to bring one piece swimsuits. And that's
precisely what I had - my mother had the habit of checking such lists
and making sure what I took was appropriate. Everybody else had one
piece swimsuits as well - except for Kylie. Kylie, being Kylie, didn't
think rules applied to her and so she had a bikini - not an incredibly
revealing bikini, but still she knew she was breaking the rules. But
though our class teacher, Mrs Connery wasn't happy about this, I
suppose she didn't want to make a major case about it. She told Kylie
off, but I doubt she cared much. And she was allowed to wear it.

When we got to the beach, Kylie initially tried to match up with her
clique for beach games and was most disgusted when she was informed
that all activities for the day had to be done with your room mates.
Well, right from the start, she started teasing poor Michelle about
anything that caught her fancy - Michelle's lack of chest development,
and the fact that she... well, she really needed a depilatory if she
was going to wear swimmers. This probably wasn't true - it was
teasing. It wasn't nice to listen to Kylie - but it also didn't seem
to be worrying Michelle too much. And Kylie couldn't be too obvious
about it - Mrs Connery had her eye on her. And even at one stage came
up and asked Michelle if everything was all right. Michelle said that
it was.

That was just the start though. Over the next few days everytime she
had a chance, Kylie gave Michelle a hard time. Tasma backed Kylie up
all the time - I think she saw a chance to get herself more into the
clique. Jackie and Chloe occasionally made some comments as well - you
didn't want to get on the wrong side of Kylie because then you'd be a
target.

Me... I was probably just about as bad as Jackie and Chloe to be
honest. But I honestly can't remember being like them. I think I've
probably blocked it out a bit. Because I really feel deeply ashamed of
the fact that I might have done what I remember them doing. Maybe it
doesn't seem as obvious when you do it, maybe I was a little bit
better. But if so, it won't have been by much. I didn't have the
popularity to take Kylie on, and I wasn't brave enough to put myself
at risk.

I don't want to go into all the bullying - most of it probably
wouldn't sound that bad, anyway, and Michelle seemed to shrug most of
it off. And maybe I was a little better than the others looking back
on it, because she started to hand around me. And I supposed I tried
to be a friend.

Thursday evening... I suppose that is the bit I have to talk about.

Our group went canoeing on the Thursday, and I shared a canoe with
Michelle all that day. We talked a bit - not about anything important
to me, I honestly can't remember what we talked about. We only got
back to camp just a little before dinner, and those of us who'd been
canoeing were sent to the cabins to shower. There was going to be a
sort of a mini-disco on that final night of camp - nothing at all
special, but most of us didn't really get the chance to do things like
that very often - it didn't fit into the schools ethos.

Now this camp was a modern one and that meant that the shower
facilities were a lot more modern than in most camps. In particular we
had proper shower cubicles - cubicles with doors. On previous camps,
we'd had a curtain at the most and often we hadn't even had that.

We all grabbed a cubicle - Michelle was at one end of the row - and
went in and started showering. White - or cream, perhaps - tiles and a
pale coloured floor. There was a drain in one of the middle showers -
all water from the end showers flowed towards that drain.

Midway through the shower, Kylie suddenly gave out a melodramatic scream.

"Michelle! You're disgusting! You're weeing in the shower!"

Kylie was in one of the middle cubicles, I was between her and
Michelle on the end. I looked down, and there was a yellow flow
passing through my shower towards the centre - and it looked like
exactly what Kylie was saying. But Michelle's voice came from the
other side. "I am not!"

"You are, I can see it. It's either you or Penny? Is it you, Penny?"

"No." It certainly wasn't.

"It's shampoo. I've got yellow shampoo, and I've knocked it over."

"Oh yes, very likely."

"It's true!" Michelle's voice was obviously close to tears.

I heard the door slam open to my left - Kylie's cubicle - "OK, you
little scrubber. Prove it. Show us your shampoo."

"What?"

"Show us. Open your cube and show us."

Now - look, I had my doubts. To me, I thought that it was possible
that for once, Kylie had a point. It did seem as if Michelle had done
what she was being accused of - and I was standing in it. I also
knew... I knew Kylie. She would tell everyone about this and I thought
it was likely that after talking about it a few times, she'd stop
saying it was Michelle that had done it - and it would suddenly be
Michelle or Penny.

I wanted to see this shampoo. If it existed, well, we were both off
the hook - because there was a perfectly innocent explanation. If it
didn't - if she'd lied...well, that would prove she had a reason to
lie.

So I pushed my cubicle open as well. And stepped outside to join
Kylie. Yes, we were both naked - and I was dripping wet as well.
Nearly all the girls showered together twice a week after PE, so it
wasn't unusual to see each other naked. Michelle was one of the
exceptions though. She seemed to be shy about her body - she'd even
been changing on the camp by sneaking into a toilet cubicle.

"Open the door, Michelle." I wanted this solved as fast as possible.

"Give me a chance to get dressed."

The other girls had also joined us. "Come on Michelle, we've seen it
all before."

"Just a minute."

Her towel was hanging over the top of her cubicle door - and Kylie
reached up and grabbed it. Now she had no way of drying herself. If
she was going to get dressed in there, she'd have to put her clothes
on wet.

"Please give me my towel back!"

I was getting frustrated. I honestly felt that this was silly.
Michelle brought a lot of her problems on herself, it seemed to me.
Sure, there were some things she couldn't help - and none of what she
did was an excuse for people teasing her - but she seemed to be her
own worst enemy. We were all girls - her shyness was just giving
people another excuse to tease her. On top of everything else.

"Michelle - come on. Just open the door and show us the shampoo. We're
all girls, we've all got the same bits. You're just being silly. If
you've got the shampoo show us."

There was silence - and then the handle was turned. And the door opened.

And Michelle was standing there naked - with a large birthmark
covering her stomach and chest.

She had the shampoo in her hands - and it was yellow. But nobody was
looking at that.

"You're a freak." Kylie's voice was scathing. "You're an ugly freak."

The look on Michelle's face was horrible as she slammed the door.

I stayed behind after the others had gone... I'd told her she was
silly to hide her body. And I felt really responsible for what had
happened. While I dressed I tried talking to her, but all I could
hear was sobbing. I knew I was missing dinner - and I was hungry - and
her constant crying got on my nerves. So eventually... well, I told
her that if she didn't want my help, she could stay in the shower all
night. I wasn't her babysitter, and if she was going to be such a baby
that was her business. She should grow up.

When I got to dinner - I found that Kylie and Tasma had told everyone
about the birthmark and Jackie and Chloe had backed them up. When I
was asked, I said that yes, I'd seen it - what else could I say?

Michelle didn't come to dinner. And she didn't come to the dance
after. We should have told Mrs Connery what was happening, really -
but then again, Mrs Connery should have noticed her absence. I didn't
report it though - I assumed she cry herself out, and sleep on it and
we were going home tomorrow. And if had told and got Kylie in trouble,
that would have made me a target.

I'm not trying to avoid responsibility for what I did. I'm just trying
to be honest about my feelings at the time. I should have told Mrs
Connery, and ignored Kylie. But I didn't.

When the disco finally ended - and we went to our room - there was no
sign of Michelle. And the room was a mess.

Clothes were strewn everywhere, bags were open.

At this point, Jackie went running and got Mrs Connery.

We went through all the strewn baggage trying to work out what was
missing. All our money was gone. Her daypack was missing, along with
clothing. Lots of Kylie's clothes were missing as well - we found them
later stuffed down a toilet.

Mrs Connery questioned us - sharply and effectively - and we confessed
about what had happened in the showers. We didn't talk about any of
the previous incidents. But that was enough. The teachers organised a
search along the main roads, and into the nearby town. And they found
Michelle wandering about, half hysterical, trying to figure out where
to get a taxi.

Mrs Connery came back and came into our room and told us that Michelle
was safe - and that she was going to get to the bottom of this.
Michelle didn't return to our room - I believe she stayed in Mrs
Connery's room that night.

The following morning it was announced that rather than leave at
lunchtime to go back to school, we would be leaving straight after
breakfast. We were not popular with our classmates as that meant every
group missed out on one of the camp activities. But, frankly, the
anger of our friends wasn't our major concern. Mrs Connery had phoned
the school and spoken to the Principal and they had decided to leave
the investigation until we returned to school. When Mrs Connery told
us this, she was very deliberate in emphasising that the Principal was
extremely angry.

We went back on the buses - Michelle was put on a different bus from
us. We had a three hour trip back to school and everybody on the bus
knew that we were facing serious trouble when we got back to school.
This was caning territory - and girls didn't get caned that often - so
the boys especially were having a great time discussing what was
likely to happen to us. Kylie was... well, she was attractive, a lot
of the boys liked her - and they probably got a great thrill out of
talking about her getting caned in particular. The rest of us... well,
we were incidental compared to Kylie - I was of some interest, simply
because I had been caned before - as had Kylie in Year 7, I found out
- and some of the boys, more familiar with the cane than I, took
particular pleasure in telling me that if the Principal had to cane
someone a second time, he really caned them very hard.

When we got back to school, the five of us found ourselves taking to
an empty classroom fairly near the Principal's office. Michelle was
taken off by herself - I found out later to be interviewed by the
Principal, Mrs Connery, and our Year Coordinator, Mr White, about
exactly what had happened.

We were left sitting in that room for over an hour - Jackie, Chloe,
and Tasma kept asking Kylie and me what the cane was like, but beyond
saying that it hurt, I really didn't know what to say - I certainly
wasn't going to risk talking about it openly, given my sexual interest
in it in case Kylie picked up on that. Kylie didn't talk much about it
either. She said that it hurt, but it wasn't really that big a deal.

Sitting in that room, with time to think... well, I was scared. My
caning the year before had hurt and I was afraid of it. But at the
same time, I was, I suppose a bit excited. But I was also really
ashamed at the situation I was in - and I knew something that Jackie
and Chloe and Tasma probably didn't. That your parents found out if
you were going to get the cane. And my parents had extremely strong
views on bullying.

My parents believed in physical punishment - normally administered
with a wooden spoon on the seat of my briefs. It was enough to hurt me
perfectly effectively for their purposes - but it didn't do any long
term damage.

But a couple of years earlier, my older brother had come home from
school with a note that said he'd been bullying somebody and he hadn't
got the spoon on his underpants which had been normal for him as well.
Instead he'd got a proper belting - with a belt - across his bare
backside. He'd screamed for mercy as it was happening - and it was a
very scary experience even for me. And it looked like I was going to
be bringing home a similar note - and I was terrified at the thought
of a belting like that. I was somewhat excited by the thought of being
caned again, amidst the fear - but that type of belting... that didn't
excite me at all. I probably had the feelings for that that my parents
would have said I was supposed to have!

The belt didn't injure my brother or anything - I should say that. My
parents were never brutal.

When the teachers finally came in, the Principal sat down at the desk
at the front of the room. The other two teachers sat down at pupils
desks as we were doing as he shuffled through the papers he'd brought
with him.

"Right. I've spoken to Michelle and I have to say that I am absolutely
disgusted with all of you. Bullying and teasing are not acceptable,
and given how long you have all been at this school, you should know
that. Here and now is your one chance to speak in your own defence.
And I would warn you that if you don't have a defence, then your best
course is absolute honesty. Whatever you have done already is done
already - and you are going to be punished for it. Dishonesty now will
simply lead to more severe punishment. Total honesty now - facing up
to what you've done in a way that convinces me that you understand
what you've done - might lead to some degree of leniency."

"Kylie Gilroy first - according to Michelle, you constantly teased her
about her appearance while you were on camp, you made fun of her...
stage of development, you made fun of her supposed lack of physical
hygiene, you made some very inappropriate comments about her body
hair, you falsely accused her of urinating in the showers, you forced
her to expose herself to you by taking her towel, and then you told
everybody that you could that she had a birthmark - knowing that this
would embarrass her. Is this a fair summation of events?"

"Yes, Sir - except..."

"Yes?"

"I thought she had peed in the shower, Sir. I really did."

"I see - well, that hardly matters compared to anything else. Is the
rest accurate?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Very well - thank you for your honesty. Tasma Ende. According to
Michelle, you were involved in all or nearly all of the things that
Kylie initiated? Do I need to go through them again?"

"No Sir."

"Well, is it true."

"Yes, Sir."

"Thank you for your honesty. Penny Jordan."

My turn.

"According to Michelle, you were involved in some of the general
teasing that Kylie and Tasma have already admitted to, and
specifically you forced her to expose herself, pretending to be her
friend - and then you called her an immature baby because she was
upset about what had happened, and told her to grow up? Is this
accurate?"

"No, Sir... I didn't force her to expose herself. I told her to come
out because I thought that was best. I really did, Sir. I was trying
to be her friend."

"But were you involved with some of the teasing? And did you call her
those names?"

"Yes, Sir."

"So is it mostly accurate?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Thank you for making that clear. Chloe Thomas - according to
Michelle, you were involved in some of the general teasing that the
others have admitted to, and you told some boys about her birthmark.
Is that accurate?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Thank you for being so straightforward. Jacqueline Ward - the same
applies to you. Involvement in the general teasing - do you agree?"

"Yes, Sir."

"Thank you girls, for not making this any harder than it needed to be.
Now, I'm sure you know what is going to happen - you will be caned on
Monday. For now, I'm going to give you the notes that you need to take
home to be signed by your parents."

I heard Chloe, sitting next to me, groan.

"I also want you to consider of how much worse the consequences of
what you did could have been. Michelle was extremely upset. She could
have done far worse than just run away. I hope you will all apologise
to her for your behaviour - I can't and won't force you to do so.
You'll have to make that decision for yourself. Come up and get your
notes."

He sealed them in envelopes before he came them to us and wrote our
parents names on them.

"Make sure you get them signed and bring them back on Monday. My
office at lunchtime."

Mr White spoke up. "Actually, here at recess, first."

"Very well - Jackie, Chloe, Tasma, you can go and join your classmates
- Penny and Kylie wait here for a moment."

The other three girls went while Kylie and I stood waiting.

"I've caned both of you before. Now I want you to understand something
- the first time children are caned, they are often very scared of the
unknown before the caning takes place. You two have been caned before,
so perhaps you feel that you know what to expect? Well, let me tell
you this. I can cane much harder than I did this first time I caned
you. Don't think that you have any idea of what is going to happen to
you on Monday - because you don't. That's all. You can go."

I went - straight out the door and straight down the hall to the girls
toilets where I locked myself in a cubicle and masturbated. All the
fear of what my parents would do to me. The fear of the cane as well -
were far less important at that moment compared to the feelings that
that last statement had aroused in me.

Soon after I was done, all the fear returned. But that... that was incredible.

I spent the rest of the day in my class doing free activities - we
were home from camp early so we were allowed to read, or play games
just to pass the time. Michelle was in one corner of the classroom.
Her eyes were red, as if she'd been crying. Chloe actually spent the
afternoon crying, but the teachers didn't say anything.

Just before the bell went we retrieved our bags from where they'd been
left and I lugged mine to the gates. My father was picking me up -
considering the amount of baggage I had I could hardly ride my bike.
And also sitting there waiting was Michelle - she was being picked up
from there as well.

"Hi Michelle."

"Hi Penny."

"Look Michelle... I've got to say, I'm really sorry about what
happened on camp. I shouldn't have called you a baby. I should have
stood up to Kylie."

"That's OK - I hope you're not in much trouble."

I pulled the note from my pocket where I'd placed it. "I am a bit."

She reached inside her coat and pulled out an envelope. "Snap."

"You're in trouble?"

"Yeah. I shouldn't have run off. And I shouldn't have stolen
everybody's money. And I should have told Mrs Connery what was
happening."

"Oh, gosh, I'm sorry."

"Don't be. I mean I don't want to get caned - but I'm not complaining.
They're right. You're right too. I do need to grow up."

My father pulled up. "I have to go."

"See you Monday."

"Yeah."

I loaded up my bags and got into the car. Dad asked me about camp -
and I decided to delay telling him about certain details. I told him
it went OK. On the way home, Dad revealed that he was going away on
Sunday for a couple of weeks - work took him away periodically - and
when I heard that I decided that I would delay handing over the note
to my mother until my father was gone. I knew he'd find out
eventually, of course. Mum would not keep this secret.

Mum and Dad probably thought I was tired out from camp. Or getting
sick over that weekend. I wasn't exactly in a happy mood. And I had to
bribe my little brother not to tell Mum what had happened - news had
got around the school. My little sister was young enough that it
hadn't percolated down to her level.

Finally on Sunday evening, after Dad had left, I faced the music.

"Mum, I have a note from school."

"Oh?" I handed it over - it wasn't that unusual for me to fail to
discover a note until I was packing up my homework on a Sunday night.

She opened the envelope and began to frown as soon as she started
reading. As she read her eyes flashed and her lips became set very
hard. She was obviously getting very angry. Not surprisingly. When she
had finished reading, she passed me the note - and pointed at the
section which described my offence. I have a photocopy of the note, so
I can quote the charges precisely:

Teasing and bullying another girl while on camp. Your daughter was one
of a number of girls involved. Her general conduct during the camp was
also rather poor.

Besides this handwritten section, the note was a form letter - it was
an 'Authorisation for Corporal Punishment'. It laid out the schools
policy on corporal punishment and told my parents it had been decided
to cane me. They had to sign the form - both parents if possible, one
would do - but if they didn't, I could be expelled. Very ominously
there were two boxes - one of which was to be ticked if the school
wanted my parents to reinforce the punishment at home. The other to be
ticked if that was not considered necessary.

The first time I was caned, the second box was ticked - but my mother
had given me the wooden spoon anyway. This time, the first box was
ticked - the school wanted my parents to back them up.



"Penny - did you do these things?"

"I don't think there was anything wrong with my general conduct..."

"That's like arguing about whether the getaway car ran a red light
Penny. Did you tease and bully another girl?"

"Yes, Mum."

"Who?"

"Michelle Quinn."

"Michelle. That mouse? Oh, Penny."

"It wasn't just me, Mum - it was Kylie and..."

"Kylie Gilroy? You went along with her while she picked on Michelle?"

"Yes Mum."

"I am so disappointed in you, Penny. I am so angry at you. And you
left this until your father was gone, didn't you?"

"Yes Mum."

"Why? Do you think I can't use the belt?"

"Oh God, NO, Mum. Please, not the belt."

"That's what we did to your brother isn't it?"

"Yes, but..."

"Should I treat you differently just because you are a girl?"

"No, but please, Mum, I can't stand the belt. I can't take the belt."

"Penny, this isn't about what you think you can stand. Or you think
you can take."

"Please." I was crying - and whining.

"What did you do?"

I told her everything. I can't remember exactly what I said, or even
close to it. I just know it was a total confession delivered in tears
to a mother who showed not the slightest sign of sympathy. When it was
done, though... she walked to the kitchen drawer and pulled it open
and took out the wooden spoon. I have never been so relieved in my
life to see that spoon.

"Come here."

Whenever she gave us the spoon once we were tall enough, it was always
while we bent over the kitchen counter. She tucked the spoon under her
arm as she undid my jeans and pulled them down. Then she pulled down
my briefs exposing me to her. I hoped my little brother was upstairs.
On only one previous occasion had she used the spoon on my bare
bottom.

"Next time, it will be the belt," she said as she pushed me over the counter.

She delivered hard and fast twelve smacks with the head of that spoon
to the left hand side of my bottom. It hurt a lot and I made no
attempt to avoid crying. When she was done, I heard her speak.

"Go back and watch television, Chris. Your sister has been very naughty."

And I cringed when I heard that. Then another twelve smacks with the
head of the spoon on the right side of my bottom.

"There'd better not be a next time, Penny. Now go to bed - I don't
want to see you until breakfast."

I pulled up my briefs and my jeans and held them up as I went up the
stairs. I got undressed straightaway and straight into bed, and tried
to rub away the pain. I fell asleep eventually and was woken by the
alarm.

I showered then, and examined my bottom in the mirror. There was some
bruising on the right hand side of my bottom - not a lot, but some -
and I tried to imagine what it would look like by afternoon. I dressed
in school uniform - summer uniform - and put on the thickest pair of
briefs that I had. Unlike my deliberate caning the year before I
didn't want to feel this one anymore than I had to.

When I went downstairs, Mum was cooking me breakfast. She always
cooked us breakfast the day after she'd smacked one of us, and I was
reassured by the smell. But as she served me, she still looked very
cross.

"Mum... are you all right?"

"No, Penny, I'm not all right. I'm still very upset with you, I'm very
angry and I'm very ashamed. But I will get over it, Darling. This is
my problem, not yours. You've misbehaved, you're being punished for
it. That should be the end of it. It will be - soon, I promise. Now
I'm driving you to school today. Your letter is signed, it's on the
counter. And I will pick you up this afternoon and by then, hopefully,
I'll be OK. For now eat your eggs."

I ate my breakfast and eventually got in the car with Mum. She drove
me to school and dropped me at the gates.

"Bye Mom."

"Oh give me a kiss, Penny."

I did so. "You are a very naughty girl, Penny - but I love you."

"I'm sorry, Mum."

"So am I. Now go, before I get cross again."

The day was a bit of a blur. I had lessons, but I had a hard time
concentrating. And at recess, I went along with the others to the
classroom - Kylie looked very surprised to see Michelle there. Jackie,
Chloe, and Tasma, I think had already spoken to Michelle.

"What are you doing here?" Her voice was very flat.

"What do you think? I'm going to get the cane."

"What? That doesn't make any sense!"

"And yet..."

"Oh... well, I'm sorry you are going to get the cane. That's really unfair."

"Thank you."

Kylie looked out the window, away from Michelle.

"I'm sorry... about the other stuff too."

"Thank you."

"I mean it."

"I believe you."

Everyone went silent. As we waited. Chloe spoke.

"Did they tick the box on your forms? The one about your parents
reinforcing things?"

We all nodded - except for Michelle. "No, they let me off that bit.
What happened to you?"

Chloe spoke: "Well..." she flushed... "My father spanked me. I must be
the only fifteen year old in the country who still gets their bottom
smacked at home."

"Hardly!" I was speaking. "I got the spoon - and almost got the belt.
I think parents who send their kids to a school with the cane aren't
exactly up to date on modern child rearing!"

Jackie spoke quietly. "My parents just talked to me."

"What, a lecture?"

"No, they just talked."

Kylie was incensed. "Well, that's unfair. I'm grounded for three
months. God, I wish my parents smacked me."

"I wish mine didn't." This came from Tasma. "My parents are like
Penny's - I don't think our wooden spoon has ever been used for
cooking."

Discussion died down at that point and after a few minutes, Mr White,
our year coordinator came in with the female Deputy Principal.

"Right, girls, do you all have your letters?"

We indicated that we did. Mr White pointed at Jackie and Chloe. "You
two, bring them here."

They both walked up. He took the letters. "Right, you two can go.
Consider this to be your one and only warning."

"We're not getting caned?"

"Not this time."

"But that's not fair!" Chloe almost exploded.

"Would you rather be caned?"

"No, Sir, I mean... my father... well, he spanked me for this - and
Jackie got off with nothing!"

"Really?" Mr White looked at Jackie. "Is that the case?"

"I suppose."

He handed back her letter. "In that case, you see the Principal - and
I will be writing to your parents to remind them of the conditions of
enrolment in this school. Chloe, you can go." He cast his eyes among
us. "Did any of the rest of you get away with it? Besides you,
Michelle."

Kylie spoke quite quietly. "My parents didn't hit me, Sir."

"Did they punish you?"

"I'm grounded."

"That's all right then - it's up to them how they reinforce the
school's punishments." He got up and walked out the door, leaving the
Deputy Principal in the room.

"All right, Girls. I need to know - are any of you on your periods?"

Tasma raised her hand hesitantly.

"In that case, Tasma, when the Principal asks you whether you want to
be caned on your hand or your bottom, please say hand, to avoid
embarrassment. The rest of you will have the choice. See you all at
lunchtime."

And so at the start of lunchtime, we found ourselves lined up outside
the Principal's office. We were the only ones there to be caned that
day, and I assume the others felt as nervous as I did. None of us were
crying, but I was certainly close to it.

After only a minute or so, the Principal opened his door. Through the
door, I could see the Deputy was already present. He looked along our
line - and pointed at Michelle. She followed him in. I could hear much
of what was said.

"No matter how much you are bullied, Michelle, you can't go around
putting yourself in danger in the way you did. And we can't tolerate
stealing - I know you planned to give the money back, but that is what
taking without permission is. Now if you are bullied again, you should
tell us about it. If you don't do that, we can't help you - and I
don't want you to have to go through this again. Now - do you want to

be caned on the hand or on your bottom?"


"My bottom, Sir."

"Then bend over."

There was a pause of a few seconds and then there was a swish and a
crack and a cry of pain.

"Under the circumstances, I think that will do."

The door opened and Michelle stepped out rubbing her seat, with one
hand and her eyes with the other. The Principal pointed to Jackie. She
went in.

"All right, Jackie. I'm going to give you a choice. You can go home
this evening and see if your parents have decided to punish you - I
will phone them and explain the situation - or you may simply be caned
now."

"Caned now, please."

"All right. Jackie - I believe you only went along with what happened
because you were afraid. But fear is not an excuse for bullying. You
should have gone to Mrs Connery if there was no other way of avoiding
such a choice. But first of all, you should have just walked away."

"Yes, Sir."

"Do you want to be caned on the hand or the bottom?"

"On the hand, Sir."

"I see. Are you left handed or right handed?"

"Right handed, Sir."

"Please put out your left hand.... palm up. It's probably easier if
you close your eyes, Jackie."

A swish and a crack. And a squeal. And next to me, Tasma began crying.

"Hand back up, please. Keep your eyes closed. Good girl."

A second swish and another crack and a chocking coughing sound.

"Put out your right hand... that's right."

A third swish and and a third crack and a lot of crying.

"That's it. Come along."

The door opened again and Jackie came out crying and rubbing her hands
together. The Principal pointed at Tasma. She walked into the room
very slowly.

"Tell me, Tasma. Is popularity worth this?"

"No, Sir."

"Well, at least you've learned a valuable lesson from all of this
then. Your behaviour was awful on that camp. Bullying another girl to
make yourself look good - deplorable. Now do you want to be caned on
your hands or your bottom?"

"Hand, Sir."

"Put out your left hand. That's right. It's easier if you don't watch."

A loud, short swish and a loud crack of the cane. And a shriek of pain.

"Hand out again."

Almost instantly a second crack. And the sound of a thoroughly repentant girl.

"Other hand. Keep your eyes closed."

A crack. A shriek. And then almost instantly a second crack and a scream.

"It's over."

And again the door opened and Tasma came out her face screwed up with
pain, and her hands tucked in under her arm pits. The Principal
pointed at me, and I forced my legs to move.

As I entered the room, he took my note from me, and pointed to the
middle of his floor. The cane sat on his desk next to an open book,
with columns filled with handwritten text.

"This is the second time you've been in here, isn't it, Penny?"

"Yes, Sir."

"That isn't good, is it? And for bullying, which is even worse. Do you
know, Penny, that Mrs Quinn, Michelle's mother, phoned me this morning
to tell me that Michelle was upset that you were going to be caned,
because you were her friend?"

"No, Sir."

"Well, she did. And yet, on Friday, when I questioned you, you agreed
that you had teased Michelle, and that you'd called her a baby and
told her she should grow up? Is that true?"

"Yes, Sir."

"But she is your friend?"

"Yes, Sir."

"You teased your friend. Penny that doesn't make things better. I hope
you see that."

"I do, Sir."

"Do you want to be caned on the hand or the bottom?"

"The bottom, Sir."

"Then bend over."

I bent straight over to touch my toes. I heard him step around me and
I felt the cane placed across the seat of my skirt. Then I felt pain.
A line of pain. I stood up - and I was crying. The cane just touched
my bottom again and I bent over again - and there was a second line of
pain, even worse than the first. And again, I stood up - I just
couldn't help myself. I've read stories of people staying down when
they were caned - well, I couldn't manage that, and thank heavens,
they didn't expect me to - if like in some stories, I'd got extra
strokes for standing up, I'd probably still be there. Again the cane
touched my bottom - and again I bent over. I wanted to get this over
and done with as soon as possible. And again, the cane hit me and the
pain was awe inspiring. The wooden spoon had hurt me, but this was on
another plane. And again I stood up. He touched me with the cane
again, but I couldn't bend. He tapped me with it - nowhere near enough
to hurt, but enough that I felt it, and I forced myself down. As soon
as I was down, the cane hit again and I realised that I was yelling.
And standing upright and my hands were behind me and on my bottom as
if I could pull the pain away somehow.

"Please move your hands, Penny - if you wanted them caned, you could
have chosen that. I don't think you want both at once."

I moved my hands away, and realised they were shaking. I forced them
in front of me and slowly bent over. I felt the cane placed on the
seat of my skirt again and I... well, I whimpered. It sounded like a
ridiculous sound even to me, and I was embarrassed at making it.

Then the cane hit again and the pain was worse than ever. But...
also... inside me... I realised there was something else. Amidst all
the pain was the type of sensation that I got when I was
masturbating... not orgasm... just the very beginning of the
feelings... the first few times I masturbated I didn't climax - I'm
embarrassed to say that it took me a few attempts to reach that
stage... but the first time I did, a little before I did, I felt a
tension for a second and from that point felt that I'd finally got the
hang of it. That was felt again at this moment. Not orgasm, but the
promise of it. That's the best way I can describe it. I also had it
again later on, the first time a boy who knew roughly what he was
doing put his hand down there.

I didn't want another stroke, despite this feeling. If I'd been asked
if I wanted another stroke, I'd have said no. But I didn't have a
choice and so as the cane tapped me again, I bent over again. And when
it hit, there was the same tension amidst the searing agony.

But it was over. I was lead to the door and past Kylie. And I walked
gingerly up the corridor - and then much faster when I thought nobody
was looking into the toilets and into a cubicle where I dropped my
briefs and began masturbating as fast as I could trying to hold onto
the pain and the tension.

I realised there was crying coming from the next cubicle - Tasma was
in there - and I realised she could hear me and probably knew what I
was doing but I was beyond caring. And her crying actually made it
better.

I came - much more intensely than I ever had before. And then I began
crying even harder than I had before as well. It was the end of
lunchtime before I felt able to leave. And when I went back to class,
and sat down at my desk, I could feel all the marks - not from sitting
down so much, just I could still feel some pain from the cane and as I
sat through that afternoon, I was feeling constantly on the edge of...
well, sexual excitement. And it got a bit stronger everytime I looked
at one of the others. And god, it was embarrassing because I was
surrounded by boys in the class as well, and they kept looking at me
and that made it much worse.

At the end of the day, I went out the gates where Mum was waiting for
me. As I climbed into the car, she asked me.

"How many did you get?"

"Six."

"Six of the best. Quite an achievement."

I looked at her and she was smiling. It didn't seem like she was still angry.

When we got home and went through the door, she told me to come into
the kitchen. Sitting on the counter - where she normally smacked me -
was one of dad's thick leather belts. I stopped cold. Mum smiled.

"You're not getting it. I just want you to see it. Because I am
serious - if you get reported for bullying again, you will be belted.
Now - let me see the damage, the cane has done."

She made me lean across the counter - the way she did when she smacked
me - and lifted my skirt and pulled down my briefs. She drew in a deep
breath as she looked at my bottom - and I was concerned that somehow,
maybe, she could see I was still aroused. She was my mother after all
- an expert in me!

"Well, I'm sure that hurt, so we won't dwell on it anymore. Go and
have a shower, Darling."

I went up to the bathroom and stripped off - and stood looking at my
bottom in the mirror.

Half a dozen dark red lines, almost going to purple. I was shocked to
be honest. Shocked that this was legal. They looked a lot worse than
they felt. But they felt pretty bad.

But as I looked at them, and touched them and touched myself... I felt
pretty good.

Many thanks for your excellent accounts, Halfpenny. It's also interesting to see from the documents how relatively recent these canings were: March 1995.

A very interesting story from Halfpenny. In view of the fact that corporal punishment was abolished in Australian schools in the 1980s, which of the following is the best description of Halfpenny's account:

A (pork pies)

B (pork pies)^2

C (pork pies)^3

D (pork pies)^4

I will tally up the votes and post the results within the next day or two.

I think halfpenny's account will satisfy all the doubting Thomases.
After all she did have a genuine document to back her story up with.

Quite apart from your offensive tone, Celine, your information is incorrect. Legislation on corporal punishment in Australia varies from state to state, and between private and public schools. It is still technically lawful in South Australia even today. See
http://www.crin.org/resources/infoDetail.asp?ID=18621&flag=news

"After all she did have a genuine document to back her story up with. "

Oh stop it - please - not a dry eye in the house. My sides are hurting.

Please stop it.

"I shall change my mind about that if any of them hasn't split his sides with laughter" -- Lotta Nonsense, post at September 17 2008, 8:05 PM in the thread "war years..hands or bare bottom

"Oh stop it - please - not a dry eye in the house. My sides are hurting." -- Skeptikos, post at October 10 2008, 4:51 PM in the present thread.


I wonder, could they possibly be related?

Nice idea but 'fraid not. No link with the esteemed Lotta.

My sides are splitting quite independently, thank you.

No relations of Lotta have contributed to this thread.

Celine and Asquith are very closely related indeed.

If indeed as some of you lurkers out there are proposing, Halfpenny's accounts lack credibility, then how do yo explain the document she produced, which to all intents and purposes appears to be genuine?

By the simple explanation that the caning chit appears to've been filled in by a 14 year old, not a bloody teacher, judging from the handwriting!


Steve M

Some of these accounts are very interesting, but the only believable ones would be those sent in by female posters who recall being punished by female teachers. Even in the 1970s it was completely out of the question for any girl to be punished by a non-female teacher.

I attended quite a few different schools, both mixed and single sex during the 1980s in the UK. I never saw or heard of any girl being punished by a non-female teacher in any context whatsoever. Also girls were never punished in front of a mixed class by teachers of any gender. It was not allowed.

Single sex schools (all girls) were a different matter.
The punishments were not formal but rather random or ad hoc.
Most female teachers used some sort of c.p. in the class. Most involved an open handed slap either across the bottom or back of the thighs. Very occasionally some teachers would use a ruler. Teachers who used some form of c.p. usually had better behaved classes as far as I can remember.

While I have heard of girls being slippered or strapped privately at some other schools, I never actually experienced any of this. Nearly ever girl that attended a single sex school in the UK say between 1970 and 1990 most probably would have received some form of c.p. albeit very mild.

Hi Steve

Maybe the teacher involved had partaken of a liquid lunch that day. But seriously apart from that minor detail are there any other details that give you reason to doubt the credibility of this account?

Wether its true or false it is certainly good one handed typist fodder
About time to lock this thread and start a new page as its a sod to load when you have not got broadband.
Its bad enough having to tap into the wires with an extention lead and crocodile clips when you live in the back of yonder.

I only hope Arnold Lane is still around to see what his thread turned into!

Some responses, mainly in reverse order to the postings concerned:

Madam Antisceptic, not sure what Lurkers you are referring to but I do hope it isn't me! If you take the trouble to look back to October 8 2008 @ 20:29 in this thread you will see that it was me who asked Halfpenny if she would be willing to re-post her experiences here, as I had seen them elsewhere. I regarded them then, and still regard them, as extremely well written and true insofar as I can judge. See my message to Halfpenny below.

Halfpenny, thank you for responding to my request. I am very sorry that once again you have been subjected to some stupid comments. Please remember though that Celine/Asquith are one and the same person, and that 'her' negative comment is thus cancelled out by 'his' positive comment, in other words she/he doesn't actually know what they think, they just type whatever comes into their head.

Sceptic, I don't know how many of Lotta Nonsense's posts you've read, but none of the current crop of new Lady? posters is even in the same league. As for Skeptikos being Lotta, I don't think so, and the IP evidence from Research Assistant 2 seems to confirm this. However, I have to say that if Lotta did want to return under a completely different identity she is more than clever enough to spoof the IP address, it isn't that difficult. Why would she do so though, she has a loyal fan base here under her original name, one of whom (me) is still concerned that he appears to have been holding the smoking gun when Lotta made her abrupt departure.

Asquith/Celine, very sorry to hear of your multiple personality problems. We all have a little of the opposite sex somewhere in our personalities but happily the majority of us don't feel the need to go to the lengths of actually pretending to be the opposite sex!

Lesbos, you say

It all seems very complicated. Would it not have been a lot quicker and easier for the teacher to just ignore the misbehavior and get on with the lesson?

This was the early 1950s. In those days if you were going to get it at school (and indeed in other facets of life) you got it! With classes of 50+ to control teachers generally couldn't afford to let children think they might get away with anything. Every punishment was played out as a little mini-drama 'Pour encourager les autres'.

Steve M, forgot to say very glad to see you back! I don't think you've made a close study of teachers' handwriting styles though. Most of them are worse than Doctors. I've done various bits of programming for teachers and the 'program spec' is usually boardering on illegible.

Mimi, as I've said before, short of somehow shipping all these youngsters now posting back to classrooms as they used to be they ain't going to believe us! Sorry to hear you can't got broadband, this page certainly must be tricky. Too many fun posters and split personalities!

Ah, I see Celine is over here as well. So I think I'll post my charts again in reponse to this:

A very interesting story from Halfpenny. In view of the fact that corporal punishment was abolished in Australian schools in the 1980s, which of the following is the best description of Halfpenny's account:

Once again, you don't seem to understand that when (or if) corporal punishment was abolished in Australian schools depended on whether or not you are talking about a government or non-government school, and also what state or territory it's in.

A couple of states did abolish corporal punishment in the 1980s in government schools - Victoria did in 1983, and New South Wales did in 1987 (although it reintroduced it in 1989). But they were the only two cases of abolition in the 1980s and they only affected government schools.

In 1995, Halfpenny could not have been legitimately caned in a state school anywhere in Australia - but there isn't a single jurisdiction where it couldn't have happened in a private school in that year.

I've taken the liberty of making up four charts that outline the legal situation with regards to corporal punishment in schools across Australia - I am hoping that a visual representation might make things easier for those people who just don't seem to be able to read explanations of the law. Four charts - one for 1980 (any chart from about 1930-1980 would be similar), one for 1990, one for 2000, and one for today, that shows whether or not corporal punishment was or is permissable for both boys and girls, in both government and non-government schools at a particular time.

I could probably provide sources for every datapoint, but I'm not going to waste my time doing that unless I am asked to on specific points.









By the way - noting the comment on handwriting. For about the last twenty five years all Victorian teachers have been 'strongly encouraged' to write in Victorian cursive. In my experience, this has lead to a very strangled hand for many of us who learned to write in our own way, or with an older style. Vic cursive looks quite babyish when used by an adult anyway, it's even worse when a teacher can't do it well.