There are some isolated references on this estimable forum to prefects administering corporal punishment, but I cannot find a thread specifically dealing with the subject, so here goes! My secondary education took place at a school where prefects were empowered to administer canings of up to 3 strokes. This school was the Nottingham High School, a public day school for boys. For the benefit of non-UK residents I will add the customary rider that in the UK a 'public school' isn't public! The Nottingham High School should not be confused with the Nottingham High School for Girls, or NGHS, which has featured in the recent Named & shamed and smacked legs threads. The two schools are situated in close proximity and now have many ties. In my day however the relationship was tentative, and formal links between the schools were few. The same cannot be said of their pupils though!

A few years after I left the school the prefects' rights to administer corporal punishment were withdrawn, at their own request. Normally I am no fan of Wikipedia, for reasons not relevant to this posting. However, I can personally attest to the accuracy of the article here which, up to the abolition of caning, describes the system of prefectorial punishment at the school while I was there.

The only time I saw a cane in my entire school career was at my one appearance before the prefects' court as a frightened 13 year old. Although the cane could not be used without at least a 24 hour interval to permit an appeal, it was always laid on the table in full sight of the unfortunates brought before the prefects' court. I happily escaped the cane for my offence (running in a quad where only walking was allowed), and was let off with lines. However a great many of my contemporaries, sometimes even quite senior boys, were not so lucky. Because of the compulsory 'due process' interval those sentenced to the cane always had to contemplate their fate overnight, and sometimes over a weekend!

I was a very well behaved pupil who had no disciplinary problems with masters at the school. However I was extremely wary of the prefects. Mainly drawn from the school's sports stars, their selection of victims seemed arbitrary, and frequently directed at those pupils who, like myself, did not distinguish themselves in sports or in the school's military cadet unit. On balance, I think a well regulated corporal punishment regime was, and indeed would be, beneficial in schools up to the age of about 13, and in some cases beyond that age. However, I think that allowing pupils to administer corporal punishment to other pupils was an abomination which should never have been permitted.

So there we have it. Even in the 1960's, in at least one boys' school, boys were caning other boys. I suspect that other visitors here can confirm that similar practises were widespread in boys' schools, and I hope that they will do so.

But what of other types of school? Taking girls' schools first, let me quote one of the most respected lady members of this forum, who is both erudite and witty. In her early days here, posting under a name other than the one she now uses, she said:

The ****** referred to took place at an all girls boarding school, prefects head of house could all hand out punishments which ranged from detentions lines and quite frequent leg slapping. The school had hundreds of pathetic silly rules

I have asterisked the initial subject because it is not relevant here, and I have not named the lady, or linked the thread in case she does not wish to comment. She does not actually say that prefects and heads of houses could dispense corporal punishment, but her wording seems to suggest this. I hope that she will be able to expand on the situation. Equally I hope that other readers will add their own experiences within girls' schools, if any.

We now come to much more difficult territory, that of mixed schools. It would seem just possible that prefect administered corporal punishment might have existed in these, confined to same-sex pupils, but surely the complexity of managing this would have ruled it out. I stand to be corrected by readers however.

Even more unlikely would be opposite sex corporal punishments by prefects. In an earlier post, concerning corporal punishment by prefects at my own school, I joked about 'fifth form girls bending over for the captain of the school rugby team', prior to saying that the school was all male. What are the chances of such a male-female pupil-pupil corporal punishment, or its inverse, ever having happened in practice. About the same as the chance of me climbing K2, I'd say! However, someone out there may be able to correct me!

To encourage contributions I'll open up the field a little. As with single-sex schools, many mixed schools had cadet corps or similar 'disciplined' activities. In this type of organisation punishments such as push-ups, runs, drills etc. were often used. Technically at least, these are corporal punishments. Can we produce details of an opposite sex pupil-pupil corporal punishment by including them? Over to you!

When I attended boarding school some prefects did give out some mild forms of corporal punishment such as leg slapping but I am not sure if they were really allowed to. In any case if you protested then you would probably have to explain the situation to the dormitory Matron and she was not exactly the most sympathetic person on the planet at the time.

I know some of my class mates claimed that a certain prefect slippered them, but when challenged to show the visible marks all they could display were some fading handprints across the back of their thighs which were obviously the result of a leg smacking.

I myself received the odd slap across the back of the legs from some prefects,but this was not in the context of any formal punishment, but happened in a rather random fashion, but always in the dormitory, never in the actual school itself. There is no way any prefect was authorised to hand out any serious type of punishment such as slippering.

I am quite sure there was no formal policy that allowed prefects to punish students, it was probaly just the result of some individual prefects overstepping the mark. There was no such thing as prefects handing out lines and detention. This simply did not happen.

Yes like Mandy I attended a very exclusive UK boarding school in the late 1970s. Prefects were not really authorised to hand out punishments but some of the dormitory monitors would give you the odd smack across the bottom if you infringed on any one of the many rules.

Sometimes it was done in a relatively light hearted manner and sometimes not.
The head prefect was more inclined to smack rather than any of the others. It was not really considered any big deal at the time and was a much preferred option than having to report to Matron.

There was an interview recently with a woman who is hooked on Femdom. When asked how it all started she recounted that as a 13year old girl she used to live in a boys' boarding school somewhere in the south of England (she even named the place),with her mother who was the school nurse.She said her mother who had full authority to spank and cane the boys,and did this frequently,also encouraged her to do the same to the boys.
This happened during the school holidays when the nurse was left in charge of the boys who stayed on and lived in the school.
She described vividly how she and some other girl friends of hers who were her own ageand came to stay with them for the holidays, used to have fun with the boys by tying them,undressing them naked and spanking and paddling them,and all sorts of other"games."
The boys had to endure all this because they were terrified of her mother who was a strict disciplinarian.
And some of these boys were their own age or even older.

Observer, huh?

Just goes to show you can't believe everything in the papers.

Mandy and Sheena, though you do not say so, can we to assume that both of you attended girls only schools? I think there was the odd mixed boarding school around, even as far back as the 1970s.

Observer, thank you for your contribution. I am a tad more credulous than my esteemed fellow poster Yetanotheranotherlurker. Further, in accordance with the dictum once laid down by one of the most sceptical and erudite members of this estimable forum, who can spot a suspect posting at 500 metres in a whiteout, I am prepared to believe that just about anything may have happened somewhere at some time!

However, I shan't be rushing out to buy any high altitude mountaineering gear just yet! I am afraid your submission fails to meet the required criteria on two grounds:

1. The girls doing the 'punishing' were not pupils at the school (it was a boys' school) and therefore had no official capacity within the hierarchy of the school.
   
   
2. The alleged incidents were not a consequence of any breach of school protocols official or unofficial, by the boys concerned.

Sadly, if the incidents did take place I have no doubt that in adult life some of the unfortunate lads will have found themselves paying substantial sums to discreet young ladies to replicate them. Still, doubtless this need will have given them the incentive to work hard and attain good jobs!

So, sorry, no score this time. However, I'm sure someone somewhere will hit the jackpot. Keep posting!

I could have easy stayed on subject by inventing a story about prefects at my school which would still be more credible thzn some "reminescences" on this thread.
I didn't invent my story because it can be checked by anyone being on the internet. If I find the name of the site I will send it to you. It's definitely a Femdom site RUN by this very woman Who simply recounted how it all started in her life. I know the truth is stranger than fiction.And I have no doubt that some of those poor boys WOULD have become addicted to Femdom just like her in their adulthood!
Any Psychologist will tell you that it is incidents like this which turn one into a fetishist.
And un/fortunataly we are all fetishists here since we are on this site. Otherwise why read it or post in it? For curiosity?(usual excuse).
I will answer your other points in another posting so as not to make it too long.

I think a lot of people are getting the wrong impression about prefects.
At my old boarding school (circa 1970) the head prefect was a wonderful girl and very popular with everyone. And it was not only because she was very outgoing and attractive. She was a great inspiration to all us girls and we all admired and respected her.

I personally got on very well with her as did most of the fifth formers. Naturally if you stepped out of line she did not shirk her duty and a visit to her study could result in some rather vigorous attention to your kyber.
However once it was over she usually gave you a hug and a kiss and invited you to join her for some tea and scones.

We kept in touch after school and still get together sometimes for a chat.
I always joked about how mean she was with the jam for our scones. We always have a good laugh and there is absolutely no hard feelings about the times she had to discipline me as we both agreed it was always well deserved.

Carla, I do not know what planet your boarding school was on but at the one I attended the head prefect certainly did not provide tea and scones after a seeing to.

The head prefect at my school was very tall and attractive, but so what.
She was not very sypathetic at all. She would never listen to any of your excuses and would go straight for your knickers for even the most trivial breach of the many rules that applied at that time.

Tea and scones was a tradition at my boarding school. It was great fun. As I said, the head prefect was a tremendously impressive girl, well liked by staff and students alike. It is not like the "me generation" of today where everybody is out for themselves.

In those days there was real friendship among the girls and even to some extent the teachers. Sure the discipline might have been strict by today's standards but at least everybody respected everybody else. It was a great school.

Before this thread descends into total fantasy...

At my direct grant grammar school (late 60s)I just missed the privilege which prefects had previously enjoyed (till early 60s) of giving the cane. However, we did have a rather nice second-best option. Prefects could take juniors (first and second formers) to the Headmaster, with the certainty that he would do an impressive fear-of-God act and at least threaten the cane. And about one time in three, he actually administered it to the junior offender - in the prefect's presence. Just one, occasionally two, strokes, smartly applied with the boy over the back of a chair. I confess, as a prefect I was always on the look-out for suitably naughty first or second formers to march along to his study, and achieved the cane sanction six or seven times, including one real little mischief-maker (Robin P - if you're reading this, Robin!) who made the dreaded visit twice and was caned both times. A third time, I did a deal with him and instead of the Head's justice, he took a smacked bottom from me in the boys' changing room. Extremely wicked.

These were boy victims only, but we were a boys school with a mixed Sixth Form - unusual back then, but the girls' grammar had a feeble Sixth Form with a thin range of A Level options, as I recall, and so girls had the chance to switch across to us into the Lower Sixth. There were only maybe two dozen girl sixth formers, and about half would become prefects, but I remember most of them were a bit squeamish about using the Head's caning route and they rarely did so. (Sorry to add that bit, but this is a real post - in the fantasy version there would certainly be several stunningly gorgeous girl prefects administering spankings to excited young males...)

Are you serving chips and salad to go with the pork pies?

At my school prefects served tea and doughnuts.

If Asquith is referring to my anecdote, I have to say it's frustrating and really rather wearying to see cynical responses to perfectly plain, unsensational posts. Why do these people bother even to come here, if they cannot bring themselves to believe things that are so utterly credible ?

I suggest Asquith takes a quick look at Graham Kalton's highly authoritative study of public schools in 1964, which recorded that a huge number of them gave some degree of authority to use CP to some senior pupils. This link takes you to it on corpun.com : http://www.corpun.com/ukscr1.htm

As I've said many times in the past, the fact that something indisputably happened to one or more somebodies in some place at some time does NOT mean that all the people who claim it happened to them are telling the truth.

If we're going to spot porkies effectively, we must remember that one of the oldest tricks in the fantasy book is researching true stories and then claiming falsely to have been involved.

Gosh, didn't realise that Lotta (aka Sara?) is still around. He didn't closely read my post - I was not at a public school but at a grammar school. So no art imitating life here.

And, as I clearly said, our prefects were actually not permitted to use CP. When I first went there, at 13, I remember being told - without great surprise - that they did have that authority a few years before, which would have been until perhaps 1958-60ish I think.

Peter need not worry.

My post didn't referred to his although he is right to say I didn't read his post closely.

As far as I recall, I didn't read it at all .

Oh dear, I turn my back for 5 minutes and World War Three breaks out!

Observer or Judy: Sorry if I have offended you. I wasn't suggesting that you were not accurately reporting what you had seen, I as saying that I was a little dubious about the contents of the story being true and that in any event it didn't meet the criteria implicit in my original posting, ie pupils punishing other pupils at the same school. You say in your second posting that the source was the web. If you do locate the site I would be interested if you would post a link here.

Peter, your posting certainly seems to me to be genuine, though I am a little surprised at the latter section regarding female prefects. You say they rarely followed what you term "the Head's caning route". Since we are very close here to my having to start honing my mountaineering skills, if you have the time would you be so kind as to say if any of those who did overcome their scruples actually got a boy caned and were permitted to stay and observe?

Lotta NonsenseAs one of your greatest fans, may I humbly apologise if I have incorrectly ascribed to you the statement that 'just about anything may have happened somewhere at some time'. The current non-functioning state of the forum search engine makes it impossible to check these things unless one accidentally stumbles on the post concerned.

If there's one thing everyone on this forum accepts, it must surely be that if you put one group of people in a position of absolute power over another group, sooner or later there are going to be abuses of human rights.

Of course, 'absolute power' is (paradoxically) a relative term but that type of power can exist in a normal household just as it can exist in a worldwide dictatorship. It can certainly exist in schools and, in days-not-long-gone-by, it did exist in some schools.

That being so, we have to accept that every use and abuse you can imagine - up to and including murder - almost certainly happened at some school at some time or other.

However, just because children have been murdered at school, that does not mean that someone who comes along to this forum claiming to have been murdered at school is telling the truth.

Such tales, along with all others in an environment populated almost entirely by fraudsters, should be taken with a pinch of salt

I resemble that remark.

I would just like to set the record straight on the role of the prefect in the boarding school environment of the 1970s.

I attended a very prestigious boarding school in Scotland (UK) in the late 1970s and was lucky enough to be appointed head prefect. At the time I was considered quite a bonnie lassie, but that is beside the point.

Although there was a very strict discipline regime, particularly in the dormitory, the prefects had very limited power when it came to dealing out punishments. Under some circumstances both myself and my deputy could offer a naughty girl a wee taste of the slipper (tartan of course) but that is about as far as it could go. Any suggestion that the holy sundies could be relocated during such a session is pure fantasy.

I have to disappoint you on the girl prefects thing. Alomst nothing to report. Apart from anything, this was literally forty years ago and memory fails ! There may have been one or two incidents I didn't find out about - although my ear was usually open, since even at 17-18 my CP interest was keen. And as I mentioned in my first post, most of the trips to the Head only resulted in a (full force) bollocking for the little lad rather than an actual caning.

Most prefects were appointed in the summer of Lower Sixth, so that they served in the Upper Sixth. On reflection I don't think there were more than six girl prefects in my year. They were also slightly more "honorary" than the boy prefects - they had fewer duties and, for example, they were not attached to a junior form as many of the boy prefects were. In fact I bagged nearly all of my "march to Head's study" victims through the function of being form prefect to a second form class.

Two actual incidents, however. I do remember one girl prefect crossing swords with some little first form wretch, telling the prefects' room about it, and passing it over to the Head Boy who took the lad to the Head - he probably got caned, but I can't remember for certain. And I remember one other girl, Nicola Wells, who took a boy to the Head, he listened to her account, and then said thank you Nicola, leave him with me - possibly assuming that a ladylike young lady should not be subjected to watching the execution. Nicola told us this in the prefects' room: I'd like to think there was a glint in her eye and annoyance in her voice, at being denied the spectacle, but I honestly can't remember that !!

Thinking back, this non-involvement of the girls was not that surprising. They were a bit of an "add-on" to the school (and actually a welcome shaft of sunlight in a heavily male environment!). And the whole CP usage was much more part of the male culture, which the girls were not quite expected to embrace. Others may have an opinion on this last point. I'm almost sure there was no CP at the girls' grammar.

Lotta, thank you for your very succinct summary of the likely misuse of power within closed societies and the probability of probity in those posting on forums such as this. I think we agree in essence. However, I suspect I am somewhat older than you and therefore was around when the activity which forms the subject of this forum was far more common than it was in the years just prior to its demise. From your viewpoint I therefore probably appear somewhat over credulous. Should this lead to any disagreements between us I hope that we can agree to differ amicably!

Asquith, I'm not sure what you mean by "I resemble that remark". I do hope that you weren't indicating that you are one of Lotta's fraudsters! Or did you mean the next word along in the dictionary, which in my ancient Chambers 20th Century volume is resent?

Larena, I'm ashamed of you, you should have used the belt for skelping naughty lassies.  The slipper is far too sassenach! However if you did use a slipper I'm pleased to hear that it was a tartan one.  I trust this was the tartan!

Peter, thank you for taking the trouble to expand on your original posting. The situation you describe is as I would have expected. I expected that we would find pupil-pupil CP in single sex schools, and that it would be formally instituted only in boys' schools. However, one sometimes finds the unexpected out there!

So, keep posting folks!

"Asquith, I'm not sure what you mean by "I resemble that remark". I do hope that you weren't indicating that you are one of Lotta's fraudsters! Or did you mean the next word along in the dictionary, which in my ancient Chambers 20th Century volume is resent?"

Not a fan of British comedy then......

Try Googling the phrase

Hi Yetanotheranotherlurker. Oh dear, thank you for pointing this out and my apologies to Asquith!

I'm afraid that popular culture has been passing me by for over 60 years, and is likely to continue to do so!

As I remember the tartan you displayed was pretty close to the mark. As for handing out more severe punishment to those young scallywags, I did consider it but I would have been overstepping my authority at the time.

Hi Judy

Could you please provide more details about tea and doughnuts? What kind of doughnuts were they, etc. Who was present? Did you have to be invited etc.

This kind of scenario really interests me because it was similar in certain respects to what happened in my boarding school.

I am proud to say that I was the head prefect at one of the most exclusive private girls academies in Dublin. During this time I took a very responsible and conservative attitude to discipline.

Never the less I am willing to admit that some of my fellow prefects tended to exceed their authority on occasion and would really have a go. I can assure you that when I discovered this, the prefects in question were sorted out in my study.

Academy? Dublin? I think and know not!

Hello Ellie May

Could you please provide some more details of how you dealt with those prefects that abused their authority.

You seem like a very fair and reasonable woman. I also attended a school where some prefects went a bit too far when it came to discipline. Thank you for your time.

Just a traditional slippering. Usually 6 of the best.

On the bare,pants,shorts,skirts or knickers?

Oh for Gods sake, a slippering in Eire, don't be daft.

I beg your pardon?

I do not want to go into too much detail for obvious reasons, but be rest assurred it was sufficient to solve the problem. There were no hard feelings afterwards and I am still quite friendly with some of the girls that were involved.

Not very descriptive is it?
Give us another example.

That was the only time I actually used the slipper. On the few other occasions that I needed to impose discipline, I just used my open hand.
This usually involved slapped thighs or bottoms, but not really very harsh, just to make a point.

In retrospect it was probably not such a good idea, but at the time it was part of the culture at that particular institution.

The institution word sums it up.
You were not in Dublin, you were not in an Academy and you did not slipper any girls.
Had a word with my pal who is involved in all the school properties in Dublin and has also taught for 40 years.
No such places ever existed.
Appologies for doing a Lotta.

May's account could still be true.Dublin is full of Catholic institutions,and some of these are very secretive. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a school under another name there. Your friend in Dublin is either very innocent or trying to hide the facts.

Just a glance at Ellie May's postings tells me he's a fraud.

Case closed.

Academy changed to institutions. Case nailed shut.
If the poster had said the school was in the Northern part of the ROI ie Louth/Cavan where there was a slight tendencey to British punishments ie cane or strap then there was a slight chance of truth. Dublin, second only to Cork for an opposition to anything British would be ingrained Catholicism.

I know a few girls that lived in Dublin and attended some similar types of schools mentioned by Ellie May. They are quite adamant that prefects were not allowed to slipper students. In fact they said slippering was not even used as a form of cp.

One girl told me that unofficially you could get a smack across the bottom with an open hand, but that is as far as it would go. According to her, most of the prefects were okay and did not try to boss you around. If you got caught doing anythig wrong then they would simply report you to a teacher, rather than take direct action themselves.

I do not claim to know anything about Dublin, but it was my experience that there was sometimes a difference between what was official policy at a particular school and what was actually carried out.

Although I never actually experienced any form of cp from a prefect myself, I heard plenty of stories from different sources about prefects taking the law into their own hands because they knew that there would rarely be any serious consequences for them. Of course these stories could just be some girls spreading gossip for their own reasons. Some appeared to be credible.
I am not sure about the story from Dublin because I do not know enough about that particular location.

To explain further to those wh are interested.
In Eire, academys exist to teach specialist subjects, like music the arts etc.
They do not have prefects etc.
They are similar to British colleges. IE for those over 18 with their leaving certificates, the quallification of which allows entry.
No one ever got CP at college did they.
They are not schools either state or private.

Were there schools in Dublin where prefects were allowed to punish students? I do not mean academies or places like that?

There was limited cp at some of the academies in Dublin in the 1980s, but certainly no slippering. There were no prefects as such, just Hall monitors .

The main form of cp was just a smacked bottom but sometimes a strap was used.

Nobody seems to be making the distinction between State and Church schools in Eire.
While from the many postings here it seems that State schools were very mild in CP,from the many reports I read over the years about Catholic schools there,it was a very different story. The strap was used constantly by nuns and priests,on the spot,at least up to the 70s,and probably way beyond that.

Eric there is still a church influence in most state schools.
The Christian brothers were very free with the strap in male only schools.
The vast majority of schools in the Southern parts of the ROI did not have CP.
To the very West a cane or strap was used, sometimes very liberaly if an interview on TG4 is anything to go by.
To the Northern parts of the ROI a cane was used.
Virtually no CP after the ban circa 1980.
There was no official CP in Dublin academys, any such thing was totally illegal and I don't see how it could be done other than by in private by consentual adults. This is because to get to an academy unless you are really gifted you would need a final leaving cert ( like A levels) These are obtained at 18.
So "smack bottoms " are 99% fantasy.

Mimi,you don't know anything about Irish politics. The C.Church there is more powerful than the State. You are just assuming things. Any laws passed by the state there could easily be ignored in these catholic institutions,which have an amazing degree of autonomy.
I know this is a hot subject but these are facts.

Eric I think you misunderstand.
The church was very powerfull in the recent past. I cannot see what that has to do with CP in Eire? Especially in line with the academy nonsence.
I have written two examples of female CP in Eire from people I have met who got it
It was banned 25 odd years ago end of story.
The church has limited power in anything now, its just a meeting place for most people who are religeous.
In fact a lot of teachers hated the church because of the contraceptive ban and the fact that it caused misery to lots of teenage girls.
My teacher friend had 3 suicides due to pregnancy in her classes alone in 30 years. She is religeous but has no time for the pope and the Catholic organisation.
BTW I am Irish and I live in Eire.

Another surprise!
I've got lots of Irish friends. You Irish are such nice people.Honest.
And I agree with many of the posts here that there wouldn't be such a thing as cruel prefects in Ireland,ever. It's a purely British institution.

Eric, having Irish friends in Blighty is nothing compared to living in Eire wether one is Irish or not.
Also don't ever make the mistake of thinking the Republic is anything like the occupied six counties, chalk and cheese is the politest description.
The country is just about the most foreign place in the world compared to Britain. Like the USA we are seperated by a common language.
Yes there was CP in Eire, it varied from school to school and was open to interpretation and the whim of the Principal, who either allowed it or not.
It was clarrified by the ban.
From what I can glean, the use of the strap on boys in particular could be most draconian, especially by the Christian Brothers.

I agree with you there,Mimi,and it's what I said further up,especially by Cristian Bros. But I was referring to prefects,not teachers,in my last post.

The great thing about the Irish is how perfectly they have been able to pretend to themselves that the very worst abuse possible to imagine was not happening on their door-step. Put simply, the more literate Irish are out and out self-deceivers, and always have been, The abuse (especially of women and children) by the church, in the nation of Ireland, has frequently matched acts more commonly associated with the nazis.

In fairness, the last few years have seen the Irish presented by the evidence for this of various documentaries, in their newspapers, and by mealy mouthed apologies from the government, and the catholic church.

One true story that sticks in my mind (from the 50's I think) is when a bus of unsuspecting irish boys in the 'care' of the state stopped unexpectedly. As the boys were taken out, two (I think) dentists were waiting for them. Each boy was held down as each of their teeth was pulled from their mouths. The worst 'screen nazi' simply drilled a few holes into Dustin Hoffman's good tooth. These screaming kids had every tooth yanked out with pliers (still awake, with no painkillers, of course).

But Irish society has always been as sexist and class (caste) based as India. What happens to the 'untouchables' (or Irish 'peasants') doesn't even count as something to be noticed by the richer or better-off Irish. Do you not wonder why so many poor Irish men and women fled to the UK mainland as soon as they were able?

Being spanked would have been the same as one of us being tickled by a feather for poor Irish kids. Every kind of CP happened in the nastier schools and institutions of Ireland in the past. The worst monsters (priests) the catholic system ever produced were little gods in their Irish parishes, and at their command, Irish policemen would drag screaming kids from their parents, and place them in the worst abusive homes one can imagine.

Irish apologists are vastly worse than nazi apologists in my eyes.

Want a teeny-tiny taste, go watch "The Magdalene Sisters".

BTW it is no coincidence that in the late 80s (or early 90s) Ireland saw the establishment of fantasy schools for adult women, with strong emphasis on CP.

The truth is that all abusive cultures are 'kinky' cultures. The pity is that adults fail in their moral duty to distinguish between 'play' and real-life suffering. Those people that can only enjoy their kink if at the same time something similar is being forced on an unwilling person somewhere endanger all of us.

Of course, Ireland is not unique in its mass abuse of children in the recent past. For millions of native american canadians, any CP of the type that commonly occurred in english schools of the past, would have been warmly welcomed, compared to the punishments they actually suffered on a daily basis. Like in Ireland, the churches and government of Canada have recently apologised for the decades of abuse heaped upon these innocent kids.

The Irish, Scottish and Canadians LOVED the strap for one reason, and one reason only- because the strap can be used on far more kids, far more of the time, in far more ways, without risking a backlash. Where the strap ruled, every kid was likely to frequently suffer extreme painful humiliating punishment.

Where the cane or slipper was the common instrument of punishment, punishment was far less frequent, and far less frequently applied to well behaved kids.

In the USA, the paddle seems to be an exception to this observation, although the paddle is near 100% about inflicting a punishment of maximum humiliation. Bending and presenting buttocks to experience pain links to common slave punishment, dominance behaviour in apes, and, of course, anal sex. The americans are extremely comfortable with male teachers beating the bottoms of teenage girls. Funny that, because to read the comments of some on this forum, you might imagine such a situation could never arise in an english-speaking nation largely based on our culture.

Too many adults have no problem, or actually enjoy, humiliating their kids. Such adults commonly associated with the churches of their area. When these people control the district or council, kids, of whatever age, under the control of their parents, can be expected to be spanked at school, and spanked at home. Whatever form of punishment is commonly given in public will be less severe and less humiliating than punishments given in private.

Why the dispute about these easily proven truths? Well that's easy. For the first time in our cultural history, beating and humiliating kids is largely forbidden. We accept these rules by adjusting our values. As we do so, imagining a time when other values ruled becomes harder and harder. This leads to historic revisionism, where increasing numbers of people become CP 'deniers'.

"CP never happened in schools in the past as described because ***I*** can't imagine a system existing that would have allowed it." The arrogance of the poorly educated person with limited imagination. And, of course CP deniers are encouraged, because many of those abusers from the now white-washed past are still in power today.

And they were taught by hundreds of years of British rule, no wonder a few bad habits were picked up.
Catholic worship for a time was carried out in secret as was speaking in Gaelic. Both punishable by death.
The vast majority of "Irish" are of Norse, French and English descent. The indigenous lot being largely wiped out in mass genocide.
The Mag sisters were nothing compared to British Borstals, approved school and English public schools.
How one can describe a standard 14" "Cathoilc" strap or ferula as abusive compared to 3ft Tawses and 3ft Canes beggars belief.

Mimi, ignore him! We are dealing here with the biggest wind-up merchant to hit the Forum in the time I've been monitoring postings actively. The way he spouts socio-babble might indicate he's member of one of the 'jobs worth' interfering professions. The anti-religious bias certainly fits that, but their profile doesn't usually include such overt racism.

I've emailed some of ink-lined plane's postings to a psychiatrist of my acquaintance who confidently diagnoses him as a 'nutter'.

Hi Lotta. I'm pleased that your psychiatrist acquaintance confirms my opinion of ink-lined plane. The nuttiness I can just about tolerate, the anti-religious rantings and the racism I'm not so happy about.

You and I will have to be careful though. We've posted more or less in tandem twice tonight and people may start to talk!

Happily I am sure that Subscriptions Manager will if necessary confirm that:

1. You've been an active member of this forum far longer than I have,
   
   and
   
   
2. Our IP addresses (or IP address ranges) indicate different ISPs and residence in different parts of the country, and that almost certainly ('cos not many people use the combination I use) we have different operating systems and browsers!

It may of course come as a shock to our current infestation of fun-posters and multiple personalities that unless they are fairly well clued up they leave the above set of 'finger prints' every time they post.

'Happily I am sure that Subscriptions Manager will if necessary confirm that:


1. You've been an active member of this forum far longer than I have,

and

2. Our IP addresses (or IP address ranges) indicate different ISPs and residence in different parts of the country, and that almost certainly ('cos not many people use the combination I use) we have different operating systems and browsers!' (Another_Lurker)

Confirmed.

Thank you Subscriptions Manager. Your invariable courtesy and helpfulness despite what must presently be a crippling workload are what make this estimable Forum a place of refuge from the increasingly chaotic world in which we currently find ourselves.

I Can't understand how you could allow people like this "Lurker" to offend and insult other posters in this manner.
It seems every time his name pops up it is only for this purpose. I'm afraid he is putting a lot of people away from this site,which seems to be his intention,so he can have a monopoly on this otherwise interesting forum.
It would be a pity if this forum is reduced to nothing but bite-backs and accusations and name-calling as is happening every time this person posts.