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Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008 at 8:35 AM
Lotta Nonsense 

 
I've mentioned this subject before and have been asked for further details.

A male friend of mine (well-known for presenting factual TV programs) assures me that nude swimming was a compulsory part of his education at the famous Manchester Grammar School.

If i remember correctly, the practice persisted up the 1970s then ceased when the swimming pool building was rebuilt in a position where passers-by could see the pool (and the boys) through the windows.

No girls or women were ever involved.

 
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Eric

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008, 10:23 AM 

Not even substitute teachers? But,honestly,if it was a mixed school(or was it?) there was bound to be some girls around the area. And even if it was a Boys'only there certainly must have been some female teachers at the school. I wouldn't think it would have been barred from them.
It seems to have been the normal practice in most schools across the USA where they had indoor school swimming pools. There is a whole forum on this on Voyforums with over 600 postings all agreeing that it went on up to the early 70s,when some parents decided to protest. But unfortunataly it's an all-American forum.
However there were two postings from English girls who mentioned that this practice went on in two different English schools,and they even mentioned them by name and area. one was in London and the other somewhere in the south of England. Unfortunataly I've lost all traces of them,and I don't know if it's on the same forum or somewhere else.
Again they don't give very much detail of what went on except for the area.
On the contrary the American postings go into the minutest details,some of them very shocking.
So could someone give us more details about these British schools which had these facilities?

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008, 10:48 AM 

It's an all-boys school and I've no idea whether or not women staff were employed. I imagine there must have been some women on the premises but, Britain being the country it was in the early/mid 20th Century, I doubt very much that any of them ever found themselves 'poolside' during these lessons.

If it happened, it happened.

But it's not likely.




 
 

Bob T

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008, 12:00 PM 

I can guarantee it rarely if ever happened in the US. No substitute teacher would be allowed to teach a nude swim class. If any female teacher ever walked in on a swim class it was an accident and she turned on her heel and left immediately. I suppose some curious and mischief making school girls may have peeked in on occasion, but it never happened in my class.

The school was Lake View High School in Chicago. It is a huge school. Look it up. There must be 2000 students at any given time.

 
 
Eric

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008, 2:09 PM 

If they were peeking you wouldn't know. Actually there are several confessions on this site, from now mostly middle-aged women, who say that as schoolgirls they used to take turns in groups to have a peek at the boys from a hidden closet in their locker room,which was usually next to the pool.
But back to English schoolgirls,there was another shocking, but at the same time funny,posting by a London ex-schoolgirl who said they once had an exchange visit to another school in Germany,and when they went to a swimming competition by the local school with other schools they were shocked when all the boys came out completely naked and did the competitions totally in the nude. She said it seemed natural to them and to the spectators who were both boys and girls.So they must have been used to it. On the other hand she said her teachers were very embarassed because they didn't expect this. But I think the local schoolgirls competed in swimsuits at the same event. But all the boys competed completely naked,and they didn't seem to mind.

 
 
Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008, 8:49 PM 

Eric,

"all the boys came out completely naked and did the competitions totally in the nude"

"But I think the local schoolgirls competed in swimsuits at the same event."


Please arrage the following words into a well-known phrase or saying:

       dreams in your

Then, in view of our non-aggression pact, please substitute "somebody's" for "your".

 
 
Eric

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 2 2008, 9:53 PM 

Dear Lurker,I'm not inventing this. It really appeared on a forum site. I saw it about 3 months ago. I can't remember the exact site but it was definitely a forum about nude swimming. If I come across it I will post it here.
So please don't jump to any hasty conclusions.

 
 
Eric

Re: An. Lurker

August 2 2008, 11:36 PM 

Dear An.Lurker,
I don't wish to start with these endless arguments all over again. So I will give you some facts to answer your ignorance.
1-- If you look at the list of titles on this forum you will find that there are many titles that are off topic,imcluding some titles that are called just that "Off Topic". Some of these topics are by several of the administrators themselves like Big John Moi and others. So you could tell them too to shut their mouths.
2-- This topic is still within the limits of the subject since it is about schools. And it is disrespectful of the author,whom you admire so much,to say we shouldn't discuss this subject.
3-- Your choice is very simple. All you have to do is avoid those topics which you don't like. There are many to choose from.
4-- If you take the above advice you will stop upsetting many people on this forum by your ridiculous accusations and arrogance,which you are doing every time a new topic comes up.
5-- If you decide to answer this posting please do it somewhere else,like starting a new topic yourself,where you can rant as much as you like without upsetting everyone.
So please leave us alone and let us continue with our discussion peacefully.
We have no time to waste with you.

 
 
mimi

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 3 2008, 12:53 AM 

Oh come on now, the pictures are obviously cobbled up with a bit of enhancement, just like pedos do when they superimpose little girls over adults kness. ( So I have been informed)

 
 
Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 3 2008, 3:16 AM 

No Mimi, the pictures are posed by 'actors' (I use the term in its broadest sense) for what are called CFNM (Clothed Female, Nude Male) sites. If you hover your mouse over the links you will see in the status bar of your browser where the pictures are coming from, and if you do the Google search I give above you will find the sites concerned, not that you would want to!

In my opinion some of the ideas Eric is posting here are drawn from CFNM sites. I've already had this out with him in the 'punishment witnessed by females' thread. He may not realise that the sources he is quoting are CFNM sites, but nonetheless that is what they are. In my post above I am merely trying to bring home to him the source of his frequent harping on this topic.

I have had a lot of pleasure from this Forum. I'd like the Forum to continue. In my opinion by edging into areas like CFNM we make it easier for people to point at this Forum as something undesirable.

I don't know how much you get around the web, but I get around it a lot as part of my job. There are already some very unpleasant people pointing the finger at a site often mentioned here, and which I understand has links to this site. We do not want these people to home in on us, and if they do we don't want them to find anything untoward! If we stick to factual school corporal punishment I do not see that we have anything to fear. If we get into other areas we may have!

I've considered posting a link to the very unpleasant and threatening site in question, as I think people who post or visit here should be aware of the dangers. I am not going to, because I already know that a number of people here are less than technically competent and they would inevitably visit the site in a way which would leave a trail leading back here for that site's operators to follow.

Subscriptions Manager, I've made my point. The person I wanted to see the pictures has seen them. Since the pictures are clearly annoted with their source I hope he got the message. Please delete the posting concerned unless you feel that there are reasons for it to remain.


 
 
KK

Lotta Nonsense ????

August 3 2008, 7:05 AM 

Lotta Nonsense, is it really you - the highly skeptical and disbeliving Lotta of old? Are you now peddling stories of compulsory nude swimming? Unbelievable! Did any of the boys have strap or cane marks on the bums?

 
 
Lotta Nonsense

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 3 2008, 9:38 AM 

I've never set foot in the school.

The subject was brought up during an innocent non-CP-related conversation about schooldays.

 
 
Eric

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 3 2008, 9:59 AM 

To begin with,Lotta did not invent the opening story. It is on the Telegragh website of Friday 1 August under feature "When Naked school swims were normal" By Jim White.
I do not quote phantom sites or dubious sites as our friend above is in the habit of doing.
With his Conspiracy Theories of:
Secret links to this site.
Mysterious people.
Threatining sites.
Infiltrating aliens.
And so forth,quoted by him above,without naming one single example,except two photos of dubious origin.
I suggest he would be more at home in one of these "Conspiracy Theories" sites. Instead of wasting our time with his ridiculous accusations,which appear on nearly every topic on this site.

 
 
mimi

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 3 2008, 12:15 PM 

By cobbled together, I mean't actors in the loosest interpretation of the word actor. As far as I could see there were clear lines around the males indicateing that they were superimposed over the background.
In any case its nothing to do with once legal CP and the site would be better off if the whole thread was deleted.

 
 
Bozo

Swim

August 3 2008, 3:27 PM 

In the 1970s our public school owner a cottage in a certain remote part of the country.
compulsory naked bathing sessions were rumoured to have occurred
at the behest of you guessed it Derek "the Mo" Skinner and pals
in freezing cold mountain streams.
Toughens ye oop lad....
This was just another of Dereks ingeneous tricks no doubt overseen with the usual grin.


 
 
Ketta

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 4 2008, 6:03 PM 

My elder sibling and husband attended the same public school, where under the supervision of the perv house master, boys from junior house through to leaving age were made to take the compulsory early morning dip nude .

The nearby girls school used the pool on occasions, but no suggestion that any of the boys or male staff were allowed within a mile of the activities, or vice versus.


K

 
 
Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 4 2008, 9:59 PM 

Eric,

You say:

"And it is disrespectful of the author,whom you admire so much,to say we shouldn't discuss this subject."

You make a lot of allegations against me. Unlike the allegations I make against you, which I document with quotes from your postings and other material, you don't appear to be able to do anything except blather about what I'm supposed to have done. Please indicate in your next posting where I say that we should not discuss this topic. What I said was that we shouldn't introduce your 'clothed female, nude male' fantasies into it - there's quite enough of them in other threads you've posted in! I notice that you are now floating another inappropriate (to this forum anyway) theme in poor old Bozo's spaghetti grader thread. Please stop it. If I want CFNM or penile fantasies I can readily visit sites that deal with them, as can anyone else who visits here.

As regards Lotta, yes I do admire her. She serves the same function in this forum as the official who stood behind Roman generals fortunate enough to be awarded a Triumph, or ceremonial victory procession. One of this official's functions was to whisper in the general's ear at regular intervals 'memento mori' which means 'Remember you are mortal'. In other words,'keep your feet on the ground'. That is exactly what Lotta does here, and has done superbly for a long time, barring a sad interval recently when she disappeared for a time.

And you also say:

"I do not quote phantom sites or dubious sites as our friend above is in the habit of doing."

Well actually, with the exception of the Telegraph site reference above, you don't quote any verifiable sites to justify your ramblings, or if you do I haven't noticed. As for me, the only dubious sites I've quoted here were to demonstrate where your CFNM fantasies were coming from, and as soon as I knew you'd seen them I asked Subscriptions Manager to remove the posting containing the links, which he did. Please note that links are real, quotes, unless they can be verified by links, are not. Please quote any other example of dubious sites I've posted here - or anywhere else for that matter!

As regards 'phantom sites' I have never quoted a 'phantom site'. I did post a link to a posting in another forum which was promptly removed by that forum's administrators. Happily someone else here followed the link before the material was removed and by dint of quick thinking was able to post the material anyway(thank you again, Yetanotheranotherlurker). The thread concerned is here and the history of what happened is quite clear. I also mentioned a site above which I said, for very good reasons which you may not understand, but which anyone familiar with the process will know are technically correct, I was not going to link here. That site is certainly not phantom, but the reason I am not going to link it here stands. Please indicate in your next posting where I have quoted a phantom site.



 
 
Eric

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

August 5 2008, 9:03 AM 

Dear A.L., You are getting on everybody's nerves on this site with your endless conspiracy theories.
My posting above is self-explanatory so I don't have to answer you back. I have no time to waste with you. And people don't want to see an endless tit-for-tat on these pages wherever your name(?)appears. Try and contribute something constructive for once. As I said people are fed up with you. I've already given you advice above that if you don't like a topic just ignore it and go to another topic of your choice. There are plenty to choose from. You can't dictate what members write about or what to say. That is sheer arrogance.
And you are utterly mistaken about what I write about,because I've posted and commented on every aspect of school CP and on nearly every new and recent topic that came up. Anybody can compare your postings to mine. So let us let the other members judge us on this, instead of filling these pages with endless and useless arguments all started by you.
If you can't contribute something useful to this and other topics go somewhere else and leave us in peace.

 
 
Eric

P.S.

August 5 2008, 9:36 AM 

I have seen your two postings posted this morning on other topics. So you CAN contribute something useful if you wanted to,instead of wasting time(both yours and mine)with endless useless arguments. You seem to have taken my advice seriously.
So keep it up!

 
 
Pete

former MGS pupil

September 21 2008, 5:02 PM 

Yes, this did happen at Manchester GS until about 1976. Personally, I found it a very unpleasant experience. One correction: the rule that you had to swim naked wasn't abolished because the swimming pool was rebuilt and women could now see in. Two events happened. Firstly, one class rebelled and turned up in trunks, basically telling the gym teacher where he got off. Secondly, Jim White and friends in another class reported the school doctor whose prurient interest in the whole thing was beyond a joke. I guess at that point the teaching staff suddenly asked themselves, "What the hell have we been doing here?" It was a classic case of a prestigious institution failing to question itself. At least we can disappoint the "cnfm" crowd: it was a single sex school, no female staff. But it was an absolute disgrace to assume pupils were OK about this rule (or, if they weren't, that it didn't matter); a very dark period in the history of that school and it involved people who had no place in the care of children.

 
 
KK

Different times - different expectations

September 22 2008, 7:34 AM 

Pete, did all your classmates feel the same as you about swimming nude? My guess is that many boys would have found the first few times uncomfortable but they would have quickly come to be quite comfortable about it.

I do not think it is necessary to ascribe the practice of nude swimming to perversion rather than to convenience and practicality.

 
 
Beanokid

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

September 25 2008, 7:47 PM 

A college friend of mind told me that at his (all male) school, nude swimming was the norm. He also said that the gym teacher used to punish boys for misbehaviour in the pool by putting them acros his knee and whacking them with a flip flop.

In the novel "The Rotters Club" a boy is punished for forgetting his kit by being made to swim naked. The writer mentions that he's heard of school where nude swimming is the norm, but that having to be naked while your friends are in swimming trunks is very embarassing. There's also a nude swmimming scene in the film "Catholic Boys".

And, of course, one of the hippy progressive schools (Sommerhill?) practiced mixed nude swimming.

I agree that allowing a female teacher or pupil at a mixed school to witness the boys swimming naked is about as likely as an invasion of flying pigs. Mixed schools are incredibly prudish; a pupil would get whacked or suspended for being within ten yards of the opposite sexes changing rooms.

 
 
Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

September 25 2008, 11:15 PM 

I don't really want to get involved in this thread again, but Beanokid, I have to ask you, do you not see a certain contradiction in your statements above

    And, of course, one of the hippy progressive schools (Sommerhill?) practiced mixed nude swimming.


    I agree that allowing a female teacher or pupil at a mixed school to witness the boys swimming naked is about as likely as an invasion of flying pigs. Mixed schools are incredibly prudish


irrespective of whether the former is true?


 
 
Beanokid

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

September 26 2008, 2:34 AM 

Sorry for not explaining myself very well.

I believe there are or were what I called "hippy" schools (where there were no punishments, and hardly any rules or lessons); and some of these may have had a "naturist" element - people of all sexes swimming naked together if they wanted to.

I meant to say that in a normal co-ed grammar or comprehensive school, allowing girls into the boys changing rooms or having mixed nude swimming lessons would not have happened.

Andy

 
 
George

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

September 26 2008, 10:16 AM 

I would think that nude swwimming in a mixed school, at any point in time would ha ve been very rare. I also think, that while it may have taken place in a single sex state school, again it would have been rare.

I do however think it may have taken place a little more in church run schools, but stress it never took place at St Peters. Having said that, it was commom up to the mid to late 60's, for boys up to about 13 to swim naked in the local lake.

I think nude swimming in schools has always been comfined mainly to private schools and then more to boarding schools than day schools.I think two reasons exist for this. Firstly, in boarding schools boys will see each other naked almost every day, and would not be so strange to them. After all most of the time would be spent in the water so providing a certain amount of modesty....if was not as if they were running around a field. The second reason is that private schools were more inclined to have swimming at least twice a week and as an after school activity. Their pools were private and if boys wore trunks, these would have to be dried in the drying rooms after the lesson. Any saving in the amount of clothing the domestic staff had to deal with would be very welcome. Just take a school of 500 boys, who had two swimming lessons a week and boys swimming after school or at weekends only once. This would make a great saving of 1500 pairs of trunks to dry.Not a problem now with the big hot air drying machines, but certainly a problem before the late 1960's.


George

 
 
Scott the occasional poster

Nude swimming at my school

September 28 2008, 7:38 PM 

I went to a public school which had a prep school attached. In the 1960s, all boys swam nude, but by the 1970s, the public school boys were allowed to wear trunks but the prep school boys still swam nude under the control of one of the school's two known pervy teachers.

Scott

 
 
Daniel

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

November 9 2008, 9:55 PM 

Can't speak for schools---as I never attended a school with a swimming poll---but I do know that as a boy in the 1950's all swimming at the local YMCA was by gender and in the nude.

 
 
stuart

uk school

November 23 2008, 3:33 AM 

i attended a prep school in surrey in the 1970s where we had our swimming lessons in the nude. Boys only male teachers only in heeated indoor pool. aged between 9 and 13. when you went up to the senior school, you wore trunks.
can name the school if wanted. it did happen, we didnt really worry about.

 
 
Pete

Al this nude swimming stuff

April 28 2011, 11:58 AM 

People under the age of forty need to understand some facts, and, because those facts are alien to the ways schools operate today, they need to "take them on trust" from people who were at school in those times. At an ordinary English boys' Grammar School, such as I attended in the 60s, there was so much corporate nudity (usually in the context of PE / games, changing / showering, "locker-room" situations generally) that is simply WAS NOT AN ISSUE. Most boys felt silghtly uncomfortable the first time they had to participate in coprporate nude showering - maybe 2% were distressed to the point of tears - but you just had to get on with it and, after once or twice, everyone was completely used to it. So, to a boy raised in that manner, swimming in the nude would be no big deal - indeed, no deal at all. And if you got caned / slippered / whatever on your bare bottom (not a frequesnt event, but not unheard-of) it wouldn't be the "bare bottom" aspect that would be distressing, it would be the PAIN. I don't imagine for one moment that there was not a small number of gay or bisexual teachers in or around the PE department who derived pleasure from situations in which boys were undressed, but that wasn't important either because they never "did anything about it".

It's a mistake to judge other cultures by the norms of our own, and other cultures can be separated by TIME as well as by geography. Let's remember that the age of sexual consent - within marriage - in Victorian England was TWELVE, and that Mary was almost certainly no older than 14 or 15 at the most when Jesus was born, whereas Joseph the carpenter would have been in his mid to late twenties at the same time. Such behaviour today would result in gaol sentences and people being put on the sex offenders' register for life - and that's fine as well, because that is the way we have chosen to govern our society today, but we make a great mistake if we sit in judgement BY TODAY'S MORES on people's behaviour against a different set of social norms, and we make an equal mistake if we assume that children who were obliged to behave in certain ways which were normal at the time would be distresed in the same manner as a contemporary 14 year old would be distressed if he was transported in time back to 1965 abd was - for example - obliged to queue up outside the school medical room, in a corridor which was a thoroughfare, waiting for his annual examination by the school doctor, clad only in his underpants (which were to be removed on entry to the medical room). Such a time-traveller would be mortified, and undertasndably so. To us, in 1965, it was totally normal.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: All this nude swimming stuff

April 28 2011, 9:23 PM 

Hi Pete, and if you're a new contributor, welcome to the Forum. A stirring and obviously heart-felt post, but did you not notice that this thread had been dormant for over two years! Were none of the more current concerns in this estimable Forum of interest to you?

A number of people here will certainly agree with you that the past is another country; they do things differently there. Even Prof.n and I agree on that one! happy.gif But must we have nude swimming at school all over again? Thank you, but no!

This was the favourite topic of the not at all late lamented (at least, not lamented by me) contributor Eric, who contrived to insert it into virtually every post he made under his numerous pseudonyms, and always with boys doing the swimming and female teachers doing the supervision. See a typical sample in the second post of this thread. That post also contains Eric's intensely irritating catch-phrase, which followed nearly every ridiculous assertion that he made. "Unfortunataly I've lost all traces of them,and I don't know if it's on the same forum or somewhere else."

 
 

StevefromSE5

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

April 28 2011, 9:43 PM 

PETE

If you are the same guy that posted on this thread in 2008, then Manchester Grammar is NOT a typical UK Grammar school, because it's part boarders for a start. So, I'd guess a number of us won't have experienced that at all, either, even if many of us were at Grammar in 1965 or earlier.

Most typical Grammars like mine at Maidstone would not have tolerated those things that you mention in 1965 for three reasons:

Firstly, Headmasters tended to be ultra-vigilant regarding anything from staff or pupils regarding what is known as "The English Disease". Even if Homosexuality had been legalised by then, I suspect most Heads would have ushered anyone who felt that way into the small room where a pearl-handled revolver was waiting for them to end it all, as they clearly had no future in society.

I trust that doesn't sound melodramatic, because it was very much the prevailing attitude and moral high-ground of the day.

And, secondly, if you thought Headmasters were relatively unenlightened, what about parents? Any teacher coming out of the closet in those days would have been more likely to be lynched than sympathised with.

Thirdly, most of us had outdoor swimming pools, often close to boundaries with the local housing(on the bloody cheap, of course, heated pools cost a bomb). So that put nude swimming right out of the window, neither upsetting the solid local citizenry, nor exciting the local paedophiles in the process.

Medicals?-I've never heard of any school that had other than one medical early in your first year; ours was done behind curtains on the main stage, you dropped your trousers and pants on request of the doctor as you faced him as part of your examination.

Yours wasn't typical, though I'm sure it wasn't the one and only that was run that way.



Steve

 
 
prof.n

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

April 28 2011, 10:11 PM 



Hi Steve, Another Lurker, Pete,

Just a quick point. We couldn't have nude swimming as our pool was indoors ( and heated!) but shared between ourselves and the sister school . Though times were strictly segregated , there always was the possibility of 'error' , although changing rooms and showers were accessed from opposite ends of the building.

Nude showers following PE , games and swimming were , as I think in most schools, normal practice. We had boarding accommodation so the issue of nudity was not such a big thing.

But I'm pretty sure nude w swimming would have produced some reaction from parents.

We mustn't forget that whilst Steve's comment's are broadly correct , there were others who did abuse young boys, some who got away free because the courts and government chose to look the other way- for example Derek Slade.

 
 

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

April 29 2011, 3:38 PM 

No nude swimming at my prep school (mid-late 70s) in the normal course of events. However, forget your swimming trunks (not a problem for boarders but easy for us day boys) and it was birthday suit time which I saw happen a few times. Outdoor pool which was said to be heated but didn't feel it most of the time.

 
 
The Apache Kid

Re:Nude Swimming

May 3 2011, 1:34 PM 

Until you had passed your 25 yard swimming test at my school,all swimming was compulsory and,in the nude.

If,for whatever medical reason,that you were excused,you would still have to attend which meant just sitting at the side of the pool fully dressed and,being the only one fully attired,feeling more exposed than if you were sitting there naked.

The Housemasters, and their families however,could choose to swim in trunks for,Isuppose,the sake of modesty.

 
 
Fred

Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 10 2011, 3:39 PM 

People often get confused about the school system inthe UK - it will get even more confusing once Mr Gove has finished destroying it.

Public schools and prep school are fee paying - Grammar school and comprehensive are run by the state.

All public schools and prep school are also know as private schools - still with me? By and large, in the past schools in the private sector had much less respect for individual children/students than those in the State sector did. For example teachers in private (ie public!) schools were still allowed to beat children long after it was illegal in state schools.

I had the misfortune of having a very wealthy uncle who convinced my recently widowed mother that she was letting me down by sending me to a state school and insisted on payng my fees for a very expensive public(ie private!) school.

Nude swimming for boys did take place at the private school, girls from a neighbouring schooldid use the pool at the same time (with costumes on). Boys were beaten bare assed in front of class and female teachers.

Not long ago either, I left in 1999 when corporal punishment was made illegal in all UK schools.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 10 2011, 10:02 PM 

Hi Fred,

I don't think I recall your name here before, so if the above is your first post, may I say a personal welcome to the Forum.

You have chosen to start in a thread with a long history of contention. I'm going to be totally honest with you and say that my initial thought was to post the words 'And pigs might fly' in very large letters and leave it at that. But I've been in a lot of trouble with my very esteemed fellow contributors lately for being rather too blunt, and besides there is something about your post which intrigues me. It is, shall we say, perhaps rather better constructed than those of the last person to make that sort of claim. So first, a minor point of correction if I may please:

Corporal punishment wasn't made illegal in all UK schools in 1999. It was made illegal in England and Wales in 1999. Scotland followed in 2000, and Northern Ireland in 2003.

There, that was fairly painless, wasn't it, and I think we can reasonably conclude that your Public School was in England or Wales can we not?

Now I'll try to summarise what you say above if I may.

At a Public School (that is to say a school which belonged to the HMC) in England or Wales, right up to 1999:
  • Boys swam naked in the school's swimming pool at the same time as girls from a neighbouring school who wore swimming costumes.

  • Boys were beaten on the bare bottom in front of a class and sometimes in front of female teachers
Now I was at a Public School from 1954 to 1960 and that sort of thing would have been quite newsworthy, to say the least of it, at that time. The odd boy was still being beaten on the bare bottom. Indeed one contributor here recorded a case, which I find totally believable, where a boy and girl were beaten together on the bare bottom. But that incident, and other incidents I know of, were at Prep Schools, and involved younger children. I don't think many boys at Public Schools were beaten bare bottom even in the late 1950s. That it should be happening in 1999, in front of classes and in front of female teachers I find amazing. Not impossible, nothing is impossible, just amazing!

As for the swimming, again I am truly amazed. I would have expected such a situation to have made headlines by 1999! There was a well known mixed boarding school with advanced educational ideas where it is said that children used the pool naked. That isn't quite the same thing as you claim, and in any event I don't think that school was ever a member of HMC. Now I can point you at pictures on the web purporting to show just the situation you describe. I used a link to such picture here in this thread very briefly in response to another contributor who kept claiming that sort of thing was commonplace, to illustrate where I thought he'd got the idea. I'm not going to post such a link again, because the site involved is a fetish site, and I really don't want to put the overworked Management Team to the trouble of deleting the link for me when I've made my point.

So where does this lead? Well one of our very early and sadly missed contributors laid down a principle here. The relevant bit is:

Also, in recent times, a number of contributors have been asked to identify schools referred to in their postings. This has occurred only in circumstances where a contributor describes very unusual happenings at school.

Clearly, if someone says simply 'I was caned at school', there's absolutely no reason to ask for the name of the school as the information would add nothing to one's knowledge and understanding of CP.

However, if someone says 'I was caned at an English school in 1999' or 'I was caned on the bare at an English state school', it's a different matter. Such events are (to say the least) extremely rare and to know the name of the school(s) would add very significantly to one's knowledge of CP.

Now I think your claim about the bare bottomed beating of boys in front of the class and in front of female teachers at a Public School in 1999 is probably quite enough to invoke the above principle. Add the swimming and I think there's absolutely no doubt.

Would you care to name the school please?

 
 
Former Naughty Schoolboy

Compulsory Nude Swimming

October 10 2011, 11:05 PM 

I find this hard to believe, I am certainly not calling posters on this topic liars but it would just seem weird to me. Swimming was compulsory while there was a focus of physical education in most schools both primary and secondary but this has waned and for my daughters they elect sports they wish to play for their school however school sports is often on a weekend.

As for my school swimming experiences I wore a navy-blue speedo swimming brief which was the required swim wear. Girls had to wear a navy blue one piece costume with a diagonal lighter blue stripe that went across the mid riff. Boys and girls swim times were seperate and we all had to shower after swimming. You always knew which boys had made a visit to the headmaster in the showers after swimming. There was only one occasion where I had cane stripes on my bottom in those showers. There was no way I would have undertaken swimming if we had have had to go nude.

 
 
KK

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 12:51 AM 

I understand the photo below was taken recently during a school swim class. The photo has been edited to hide the identity of the boys and to comply with standards of decency. Note the complete absence of towels or clothes of any kind. The "house trained" unicorn often joins the boys in the pool.

[linked image]

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 1:56 AM 

Hi Fred,

Please take no notice of my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor KK. He lives in a remote and beautiful part of the world where unicorns abound and he can't resist posting photographs of them because he knows that we have very few left in the wild in the UK.

Besides everybody knows that while quite docile with young naked males unicorns are absolutely terrified of schoolgirls in swimsuits, so I ask you, it's hardly likely that the poor thing would go into the pool, now is it?

Trust me, once we have the name of the school all eager students of mythical beasts (yes, I'm afraid there may be others sad.gif) will be silenced!

Can I also encourage you, please, to recount any recollections you have of bare bottomed punishments, your own or other people's. I myself am a  bottle green gym knickers  man, said garments being the apparel of the young lady being punished of course, not mine - bottle green doesn't suit my complexion. However I am in a minority here and the majority of the readership simply can't get enough accounts of bare bottomed beatings of boys per se, let alone those involving being punished in front of the class and/or in the presence of lady teachers. I do hope that you won't disappoint them.

 
 
Jenny

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 2:44 AM 

Hi Another_Lurker

... mythical beasts...

Such as well-behaved schoolgirls - particularly those named "Jenny" wink.gif

We didn't have compulsory nude swimming at school - well, it wasn't compulsory anyway. In fact, I think it might even have been against the rules. I didn't take part of course. "I wasn't there, Miss, I've got an alibi - I was having a fag1 behind the bike sheds." happy.gif




1For the benefit of US readers, "fag" is UK slang for cigarette.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 6:32 AM 

Hi Jenny,

You didn't did you? Tut tut! You have deeply shocked me! In fact you shocked me so much that you caused my blood pressure to soar temporarily. Excitement does that you know!

I thought if schoolgirls can really be that naughty, did I read what Fred said about those visiting schoolgirls and those bare bottomed beatings correctly? I put a crease in my mouse pad as I frantically forced my finger over its surface to position the cursor for a scroll-up. Then I pushed the left mouse key down into the innards of the laptop as I rocketed the scroll bar up. Looks like at least 50 quids worth of repairs to me! But all in vain, he definitely said:

Boys were beaten bare assed in front of class and female teachers. sad.gifsad.gifsad.gif

Yet another case of blatant gender inequality! Almost on a par with that I've just mentioned here over in KK's 'The earliest mention of the school paddle in the USA' thread! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 10:58 AM 

Hi Former Naughty Schoolboy,

I can recall a name containing 'Naughty' here before, but I don't think it was you, so if this is your first post here may I say a personal welcome to the Forum.

Your swimming experiences at school seem to have been fairly normal. Fred's school experience, with the somewhat, ahem, unusual swimming arrangement with girls from a nearby school and the rather startling corporal punishment method, both as late as 1999, was certainly atypical! But I have every confidence that he will identify the school and put all our minds to rest.

You say that you have personal experience of school CP. Although this estimable Forum branches out into many diverse areas, such as this thread, its core is discussion of school CP experiences posted by contributors. Any account you are inclined to give, either of your personal experience, punishments you observed, or the general CP regime at your school would be much appreciated here. Unless your experiences are as unusual as those claimed by Fred nobody will ask for anything that would identify your school, though dates, and general locality, eg North of England, are very helpful to set the scene.

If you decide to post and none of the currently active threads seems to fit the bill, have a look back in the Index or start a new thread if you wish, via the Post now! link top right of the Index page. In this case you need to fill in a title for the new thread.

 
 
Yetanotheranotherlurker

Nude swimming

October 11 2011, 11:15 AM 

This Facebook discussion may prove of some interest:

https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2232710443&topic=5997

 
 
Jenny

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 12:44 PM 

Hi Another_Lurker

You didn't did you? Tut tut! You have deeply shocked me! In fact you shocked me so much that you caused my blood pressure to soar temporarily. Excitement does that you know!

Sorry I caused you hypertension. sad.gif

Of course I didn't go skinny dipping at school, what sort of girl do you think I am? (Hmmm, perhaps that's best left unanswered.) I was a good, sweet, little girl who always behaved herself - as everyone knows girls do. wink.gif I might have been told off if I'd been naughty. sad.gif


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 3:33 PM 

Hi Yetanotheranotherlurker,

Hmm, an interesting find! But I don't think that Shears Green Junior School was ever a member of HMC, The Headmasters' Conference, or since 1996 The Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference, the normal criteria for describing a UK school as a Public School. Of course I could be wrong. Some former Junior Schools are Universities now, or so it seems sometimes ............ happy.gif



Hi Jenny,

Well of course I was joking when I said above that your revelations regarding your skinny dipping activities led me to revisit Fred's post. After all, I know that you were merely attention seeking. From your contributions here it is clear that you were never naughty or in any trouble at school, and what's more that you have managed to lead a bland and blameless life ever since. I have never doubted that that is correct. It is isn't it? Errm Jenny, did you hear me, I said ........... happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 
Rob94

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 11 2011, 6:56 PM 

No we didn't have nude swimming at my school. Also we were not forbidden to wear anything under PE shorts, in fact it was compulsory to do so. All boys had to wear swimming trunks under them. I don't know how real the danger was, but the school were worried about unsupported dangly bits during vigorous excersise leading to a hernia.

 
 
Former Naughty Schoolboy

My school experiences

October 12 2011, 12:21 AM 

Dear Another_Lurker,

I attended school in the United Kingdom's midlands during the 1960s into the early 1970s. Corporal punishment was frequently used to maintain discipline and it took the form of slippering for boys and girls and the cane for boys only. Slippering was the most frequently used punishment as any teacher could administer the slipper and it was used to punish for trivial offences such as talking in class. Boys were usually slippered in front of the class and girls were slippered privately either in the classroom or taken to a teachers staffroom for their punishment.

The slipper was not a slipper in the traditional sense but more a white flat soled plimsoll (an old fashioned tennis shoe); I did have one schoolmistress whose slipper was a hard rubber soled mens tartan slipoer and she gave me my most painful slippering with her weapon of choice. I was slippered several times during my schooling.

The cane could only be administered by the headmaster and deputy headmaster and the maximum number of strokes that could be administered was six as per regulations. The headmaster kept three canes in a cabinet in his office and they were all crook (umbrella shaped) handled canes. The cane was administered to the buttocks in the bending over and touching toes position. My headmaster caned me giving three times giving me four strokes on my first visit when six strokes for my second and third visits to his study. The cane was a very, very painful punishment and I remember my canings vividly.

sincerely,

 
 
Forner Naughty Schoolboy

Underpants for PE

October 12 2011, 3:29 AM 

This is another interesting one, there were no restrictions on what boys could wear under our PE shorts so I wore briefs under my shorts. Me and a friend of mine were held back one afternoon by the PE master for general misbehaviour, he punished us and an additional full PE class which we had to perform in our underpants and vests as our PE uniforms were dirty from the class earlier in the day, at the end of the class he gave us six strokes of his slipper.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: My school experiences

October 12 2011, 8:36 AM 

Hi Forner Naughty Schoolboy,

Truly excellent! We seldom get an instant response like that from new contributors. Thank you!

The cane and slipper seem to have been common to much of the Midlands, though in parts of the Black Country they used straps or tawses because they had a local leather industry to support. I went to school in, and still live near to, Nottingham. The slipper was fairly widely used at Junior school, even I got it once as part of a mass slippering, and I was a very good little lad. It can't have been very hard though, because although I can remember getting to the front of the queue and bending over the desk, I can't remember whether it was one or two whacks. At secondary school the Prefects and the Headmaster caned, and the Masters used a variety of implements, including slippers. My Form Master in my first year used a giant leather soled sandal. Happily I escaped all CP at the secondary school.

May I please encourage you to take a look at the Corporal Punishment Survey thread, which you'll find by clicking here. You'll find lots of people have recorded their more memorable school CP experiences there, including some names you'll still see posting. Not me though. My experiences pale into insignificance at the side of all those canings! sad.gif

You might find it interesting to record your canings, and indeed any slipperings that made a particular impression on you. The easy way is to highlight the survey questions in the first post of the thread and copy/paste them into the Message Text box on the posting page and then go down them answering them. It might bring back some happy memories! happy.gif

For reasons I won't bore you with not many threads are active at the moment, but as noted in my earlier post, if you work your way back down the Index pages click here you might find some other threads of interest and possibly wish to contribute. At the bottom of the index page there are links to all the other 49 index pages, so you're unlikely to run out of stuff to look at while you're here!

 
 
LudofLodz

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 12 2011, 9:48 PM 

Hullo my friend Another_Lurker!

Please your influence with management. Get thread sent to loveable madcap loon Boris Johnson forthwith!

What publicity for Olympics:

"Thought you knew the English? Come to Olympics and discover something amazing!"

Tell you what as well, no chance in Polska for this-too damn cold!!


Ludovik

 
 

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 13 2011, 7:48 AM 

I have followed this thread from afar with some intrigue. Swimming did not (could not) occur at our school until the second half of my tenure at the school I was working. It was only when a pool opened close to where we were located that it became possible. Nude swimming never even made the agenda! Although mixed swimming lessons were standard if only for practical reasons as the classes were mixed.

In my role as Head I would assist at times for certain events but as I was no great swimmer - I was happy to delegate proceedings to the Gym teacher and his assistant. We had a rule that for swimming classes over 30 pupils then when possible 3 teachers had to be present for safety reasons.

I know that at different times for differing reasons corporal punishment was used in the swimming class and was witness to this myself a few times (Although 1 of those times it was heard by all I would say but not seen) with only 1 time where I had to discipline a child myself. The standard punishment was the slipper or should I say gym plimsoll. The pool hall had 2 pools in it. A larger one which our school would "invade" for the 1 hour of lesson and a smaller pool which remained open to the public although they were never many people in the other pool when we visited. Discipline was quite rigid not only because of the nature of the Gym Teacher (who was also a friend of mine and one of the members of staff I could most certainly rely on and trust!)At times Feared by the pupils but not loathed I always felt they had a healthy respect for him. And actually could be quite a jolly chap when it permitted and allowed a certain amount of banter and back chat in the good sense between himself and the children under his charge. But only to a certain point and he would always make it clear when enough was enough and it was time resume "order" as he would say.

For some reason it was the punishment I did not see which sits firmly in memory. I was attending the 2nd year swimming class and they were preparing for a Gala and it was rote work of doing lengths forward crawl, back crawl, butterfly. One of the top swimmers or fastest was a girl whom I will just call J who was 12 or possible 13 at the time. It was just after she had finished her first 4 lenghts and was at the other end of the pool when commotion broke out. Apparently another girl had made a remark of which no one ever found out what was actually said. Then J pushed or shoved the other girl who slipped and went flat down on her side. I recall clearly the way my friend ran over and starting shouting loudly at J. His assistant also went over and attended the poor girl who landed on the floor.

As I walked round I saw him take J by her arm into the girls changing rooms, as did everyone else in the pool including a few members of the public. His shouting echoed through from the changing room and must have lasted a good 5 minutes. I was assisting with the girl who had been pushed , she was ok apart from being some what shook up. Then the shouting from the changing room stopped and they seemed like a lull of maybe 20 to 30 seconds. I was not the only one that sensed something was about to happen. In my position as Head it would have been fully acceptable for me to have followed them into the changing room but I felt it was already been dealt with and also we had the other girl to attend to.

The silence was broken around after half a minute when I and everyone else in the pool heard the Gym teacher (who still seemed very angry) shouted in a loud voice for J to bend over. You could have heard a pin drop as by now all ears and eyes were focused on the girls change room. A second later everyone heard the very clear sound of the plimsoll striking her wet bottom. I think he must have given her around 8 whacks with the slipper and it was only on the last few whacks that we heard her crying. I wondered for a moment if he would insist she came back to finish the lesson but alas did not and she was told to change and go sit by the entrance.

The thing about this incident was everyone heard this including the public. When we had finished the lesson and were getting ready to leave I enquired after J and had words with her myself. She was very red faced no doubt from the embarrassment of being slippered in such a public place and of course for the tears shed. I did for a moment ponder the option of giving her the cane but felt after speaking to her that the situation had been dealt with sufficiently. I spoke to my colleague on the way back to school who had by now calmed down. He make a private quip that J would not be "sitting still" for the rest of the day.

The slippering which I thought about for quite some time afterwards was given over her swim costume which was an all in 1 piece as standard and not across the bare bottom, but I doubt very much it would have made an inch of a difference. I had cause to Cane J the following year but she never repeated her rash actions in the swim lessons as far as I recall.

But back to topic Nude swimming ? not where our school was concerned.


 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 13 2011, 10:45 AM 

Hi LudofLodz,

You say above:

Please your influence with management.

Them's fighting words, my friend! But being as you are a higgerant foreigner I shall forgive you - but just this once! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

Hmmm, if Boris Johnson is a loveable madcap loon I must get a book on how to become one. Have you seen the size of the budget he controls?

I realise that the nude outdoor swimming would be impossible in Poland. It is well known here that Poland is perpetually subject to sub-zero temperatures and that most of the country is under glaciers. That's why Poles are such superb high altitude Mountaineers - they only have to step out of their back door to practice!

I myself have heard many stories of your far off land. Where I live Polish surnames are more common than Smith and Brown. The local airfield had a Polish squadron during WWII and a great many stayed here afterwards. When I was a little lad one of my best friends had a Polish name. Curiously one of my best friends still has a Polish name, but he's not local. The lady teacher who administered the spanking that set me off on a school career dedicated to avoiding getting into trouble was married to a Polish airman, and so was the my own class teacher at the time. As there's not much else to read here at the moment, the full story of that epic and life shaping event is to be found here. Those regular contributors who can already recite the story forwards AND backwards are excused! happy.gif

But back to those rather unusual swimming and CP arrangements described by our recent one-time contributor Fred. I hesitated to mention this at the time, but it is possible that Fred's contribution was no more than a strange bug in the Network54 software. I, and a few others here who have been initiated into the arcane secrets of the Network54 software interface, know that the Network54 auto-censor is called Fred. This is the software that prevents you writing naughty words like ass or snigger in your posts. I can do it, because as noted, after years of hard study and compulsory twice a day self-flagellation I have, like Renee over in another thread, been led down those secret stairs and into the dungeon-like room wherein lay enlightenment. The ceremony wasn't quite as exciting as Renee's was though! sad.gif

Anyway, enough of secret ceremonies, back to Fred! As I say, I can write ass or snigger with impunity, but you just try it! Fred will have you for sure! And anything as clever as that could easily have written the contribution in question! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 
LudofLodz

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 13 2011, 12:23 PM 

So, Another_Lurker, an auto censor can write posts in England?

I think it is programmed by Boris Johnson! You know like I do the looning is a mask for clever man.

We do have swimming pools really-one good thing about being Warsaw packed(excuse awful pun)-they tried to educate mind and body. Lots of gymnasia, lots of pools and a few statues of Lenin which are now gone. No complaints, got a damn good education from them thanks to saying right thing aged 5!

Think our hot elks (your Nigel Molesworth) work harder than yours in pools, at least from what I experienced living in England. Australian elks usually feet up drinking chilled stubbies by pool like sensible people in hot country!

And no nudies around in either country in the pool. Cant guess if nudist camps pools are same, though!

If this still happened now, think of health & safety-how could lifeguard be highlighted if everyone is starkers? Got it-different coloured bathing cap!

Ludovik

 
 
Scotty the Occasional Poster

Re: Compulsory Nude Swimming at School

October 13 2011, 4:39 PM 

I will just add in the information I know from the schools I attended

Prep school 1968-72, we swam in the newly built municipal pool so wore trunks
Public school 1973-75, we swam in the school's hardly heated indoor pool in trunks but 10 years earlier swimming had been nude. The associated prep school still swam nude in the same pool and there were reports of "hot day" swimming in lieu of PE also being nude for the younger public school boys
My other schools I never went swimming but I assume it was clothed

Scotty

 
 

compulsory nude swimming in public schoos

March 8 2014, 12:57 AM 

In the united states it was compulsory in middle schools and high schools and the YMCA's and most summer camps for boys to swim in the nude.
I had to in middle school. I did in High School also, but I believe I only had swimming briefly (meaning a couple of weeks) in P.E. Physical Education
We rotated and did different types of sports, this was in 1970's. Open Nude Showers were always there. i'm pretty sure that may still be happening in all schools.
It is interesting. I go to a health club most men under 30 years of age put on a towel and and remove shorts or swim suit. i'm
pretty sure this is because of Homosexuality being more excepted by the general population. I guess they don't want to be on display
for fear of being looked at in way thats sexual. People my age (that still go to a health clubs) think nothing of it except maybe how old their getting, when you see somebody 20 or thirty years younger undressed and they are in good shape, you really start feeling your mortality especially if you looked that way when you were younger, but what I've got to say and part of this conversation that is not directly involved, but the shape of some of the younger people, a great number are morbidly obese. the good thing is that they are at the gym the bad thing is most that of the kids I see regularly don't seem to benefit by it. I guess this means what your eating is probably a little more important than how much your moving. Living on too much processed, fast and sugary junk food!

 
 
jd 19

No so shy in rural England!!

March 10 2014, 11:35 AM 

It is interesting. I go to a health club most men under 30 years of age put on a towel and and remove shorts or swim suit.

happy.gifhappy.gif The young men of our local rugby club are not known for such shyness!! Any excuse and their clothes are off. They just love to display themselves usually after consuming copious amounts of alcohol, although I don`t think they have much of a problem displaying body parts for any reason happy.gifhappy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: compulsory nude swimming in public schools

March 10 2014, 11:13 PM 

Hello johwl ,

I don't recall a contribution from you before, so may I please say a personal welcome to the Forum. You are the second person to reopen this thread after a dormant interval of more than two years, so it may still have some mileage left in it!

Those unfamiliar with the strange ways of this estimable Forum may wonder how greatly admired (well at least by me and two other persons around at the time) once regular contributor Lotta Nonsense came to open a thread on 'Compulsory Nude Swimming at School' in a Forum dedicated to School Corporal Punishment. Let ever helpful Another_Lurker enlighten you all. And no, you don't have a choice in the matter! happy.gif

Discussion of the issue was originally started by once regular contributor Eric on July 30 2008 @ 1:57 PM in the on-topic (well, most of the time anyway) punishment witnessed by females thread. After an initial comment in that thread later that day at 11:10 PM refuting Eric's claims about boys at school swimming nude supervised by female teachers, Lotta seems to have decided that a dedicated thread, this one, was required, and the rest is history - or was until this latest revival! happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: No so shy in rural England!!

March 10 2014, 11:29 PM 

Hello jd 19,

A funny lot, those rugger playing types! And as for the songs they're given to singing when inebriated exuberant, well the less said the better! happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

 
 
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