Here is a news update re a police experiment hereabouts. You may have heard about it. Can you guess which part of this is winding me up??


Two weeks ago a voluntary curfew for youngsters began in the Cornish town of Redruth. BBC reporter Alex Bushill went on patrol with the police to see whether Operation Goodnight had been a success.

Other forces across England are monitoring progress in Redruth
It's nearly 9pm and the streets are eerily quiet.
Where once there were gaggles of children grouped on street corners there is now simply calm.
The town is Redruth, the estate is Close Hill.
For the last two weeks children here have been subjected to a social experiment.
There has been a curfew here, where anyone under 10 has to be indoors by 8pm, and those under 16 have to be home by 9pm.
This was a Cornish community blighted by vandalism, graffiti and underage drinking, but after spending the night on the streets of this estate I notice a change seems to have taken place.
I joined Police Community Support Officer Mike Tidlesley who roams the streets to make sure children don't.

It's working because I'm not having to go down the police station with Andrew - spending four or five hours at a time

Michael Knowles
Andrew's father
He soon stumbles across one child he knows all to well.
Ambling about on his push bike, the boy is soon dispatched off home.
He may grumble, but with just two minutes to go before the curfew kicks in he decides discretion is the better part of valour and slinks off into the night.
PCSO Tidlesly says the child has not broken the curfew yet, but he will be sure to check up later.
Devon and Cornwall Police are behind what is believed to be the first curfew of its kind anywhere in the country.
Building consensus
In the two weeks since Operation Goodnight began they have become convinced it has been successful in getting anti-social behaviour reduced.
Official figures will be released in a month's time, when the school holidays end and the curfew is lifted.
But they are keen to stress this scheme is voluntary.
Although they can issue social orders against parents or children who flout the curfew, police emphasise this type of community policing is a product of building a consensus with local residents - bottom-up, not top-down policing.
And they may be winning over the critics.
When the curfew was announced, there were many who scoffed at the thought of being told to go home at a certain hour.

You're punishing the majority of children who behave for the crimes of a few...and potentially those causing the trouble aren't even under 16

Hannah Benny
Children's Right Alliance
Among them are father and son Michael and Andrew Knowles
Andrew, 15, has been in trouble with the authorities often and he was adamant he would ignore the curfew, regardless of the consequences.
At the time his father told the BBC that a curfew was part of a "nanny state."
"I pay my taxes, why should I be told what to do," Mr Knowles said.
But a fortnight later he has had a change of heart.
He told me his son has been home every night on time, that the family is getting along well and that the curfew has given his family the structure it has been missing.
"It's working because I'm not having to go down the police station with Andrew - spending four or five hours at a time, " Mr Knowles says.
His minded has changed about the scheme: "Yes, I was wrong and glad to admit it."
'Majority being punished'
There are others who aren't so convinced.
Hannah Benny, 18, from Penzance who represents the Children's Right Alliance in England, knows what it is like to grow up in West Cornwall, one of the poorest parts of the country with few facilities and poor job prospects.
For her the curfew is unfair.
"You're punishing the majority of children who behave for the crimes of a few...and potentially those causing the trouble aren't even under 16.
"If a few adults broke the law, you wouldn't impose a curfew on every adult in the community," Ms Benny said.
At the end of PCSO Tidley's rounds at the estate there has been no trouble, just the sound of silence.
And so another uneventful but successful night for the police and they are keen to stress the effect they are having on the ground.
They know that with other forces watching closely what happens here, this curfew could have far reaching consequences far beyond this now sleepy Cornish town.


Now, would anybody care to accompany me to Redruth in the very near future to deal with Hannah bleeding Benny? As if the concept of children's rights isn't bad enough, SHE'S A FLAMING ADULT ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Steve M

G'day Steve


We had this problem in Adelaide in the 50's, but solved it by a bit of ingenuity.

First, we had the local basket cases & abos weaving different coloured raffia. That made us a 50-foot diameter archery target.

This was positioned at one end(the Torrens end) of the Adelaide Oval. At the other end, a giant cataplut was created from the braces out of 4,000 unissued demob suits from the war.

Meantime, a quick telegram to Bob Menzies regarding an incident involving 2 wallabies, something for the weekend and a female police inspector from about 1951, ensured that floodlights spare from MCG & the 1956 Olympics quickly made their way to our lovely State capital.

Then, Koalas were fired at the target & the kids were given prizes for every successful shot-it was a great success!

I'd better add that we also had a thank you from Blighty for all the food parcels we sent you in WWII. The thank you was a couple of thousand German WW1 infantry helmets via Konrad Adenaeur.

Bloody ideal for ensuring our Koalas not only scored a hit every time, but were not even shaken by their 241 mph journey.

One small problem, Steve, may be identifying the abos & basket cases in Redruth. Aren't they the entire population in those parts, mate?

I must agree, mate, the bloody Hannah sheilah sounds in need of a sound spanking!


DS Bob

I'll be there Steve, just tell me when - assuming of course that by "deal with" you mean what I hope you mean! DS Bob's idea seems like good oil - and I don't mean all that stuff about catapults and koalas either!

Your message is so pathetic and silly I can't believe it. Youth crime is so serious in UK but you choose to make a laugh out of it. You should grow up.

Oh Oh lack of humour alert.
It is ridiculous and totally illegal to impose a curfew on anyone IMHO.
You start with young people and before you know it, it is OAPs, or coloureds etc. Just like Nazi Germany.
The answer of course is to deal with law breakers corectly in the first instance.
The curfew should be individually administered by the parent on the miscreant. IE what was called grounding.
Petty crime should result in real community service. Violent crime, robbery, burglary should result in a custodial sentance at any age.
The do gooders should be fek*d of to somewhere like Craggy Island until they see the light and do good to victims rather than perps.
Mr Angry from Ireland "up the rebels"!

MIMI

Sounds like a combination of Violet Elizabeth Bott and Walter from Dennis the Menace posting.

I'd suggest if they think it's such a problem, why aren't they out there talking to the parents or families instead of wasting time like us posting!!

More importantly, I'd also suggest, as someone born in 1952, my generation & even subsequent one has been subject to this sort of stuff from the scumbag press.

And I've survived it all, with my sense of humour intact, ditto your good self!


Steve M

Hi Mimi and Steve,

Yes, zolwa2000 seems to have been somewhat offended by DS Bob's inimitable style. I do hope he didn't read some of DS Bob's past contributions to this estimable forum or his day will have been seriously spoilt!

Mimi, We'll have to agree to differ on the curfew for the under 16's. Living where I live I can see the benefits that might accrue. In addition, the Cornish one appears to be voluntary in that if anyone refuses to observe it the police can't actually do a great deal unless they can persuade a court to issue an ASBO. This would probably require evidence of actual anti-social behaviour, not just refusing to obey a curfew.

I suspect what is actually happening in Cornwall is an attempt, almost certainly doomed, to get back to the (commendable in my opinion) situation that existed when I was a teenager. Back then if a policeman, or any other adult in a position of authority, said 'jump' you jumped, though it was permissible to politely ask 'how high?'

Sadly though, got to disagree with you about the Craggy Island solution for the do-gooders, Mimi. Whatever has Craggy Island done to deserve that! No, put them on the top floor of a tower block on a sink estate where yobs have vandalised the lifts (and the shops and the bus shelters and the buses and the .....) and let them commune with the sort of people they affect to defend. Their rose tinted spectacles will quickly get nicked or broken by the local low-lifes and they'll pretty soon get their feet back down to earth on the same planet the rest of us have to live on!

Regards,

A_L

You're the only sane person left on this forum,Mimi.
What next,bring in a dictatorship,and shoot everyone on the street after 9pm?

Eric, bring in a dictatorship? The UK has had one for years.
We are up to our necks in laws, it is imposible not to break one at some time or other.
Every single driver is a criminal because every time they drive they break the limit.
Its impossible not to with the gearing in modern cars. A painter was fined for smoking in the workplace ie his van? He does not paint his van does he so how can it be a workplace. Any barrister would get him off if he had recourse to one.
As we all know the legal representaion is not available unless one is either rich or really poor.
Still at least we have " Hard Labour" as a continual punishment.
The blight of our society is alcohol and drug abuse. People will damage themselves for a few hours respite from having to be sober and taking in the nonsese.
And if I am sane, God help all here

Well Steve, I guess from your response one can assume that you see children as something less than human beings as you don't seem to believe they have "rights" or that they should be treated fairly as one might treat an adult. Using the rationale of the curfew, perhaps we should take away the driving licenses of all adults because some adults break traffic and speed limit laws and create a difficult problem. That certainly would greatly reduce the number of driving offenses but I wonder if you would gladly give up your privilege to drive because of it. Sheesh.

Where's the fairness?,

In terms of severity a voluntary (read the description in Steve's post) curfew of 20:00 for under 10's and 21:00 for under 16's bears about as much resemblance to total loss of driving privileges for an adult as having a very minor filling does to having all your teeth out with no prospect of any replacement!

Please at least use comparisons of similar relative magnitude.

No one would suggest that children don't have rights, they do. They also have responsibilities. However in our current society the sort of children being targeted by the Cornish curfew have far too many rights and few if any responsibilities, or at least that's how they see it!

This may sound terrible but I remember there was a curfew in Chicago for anyone under 17. 10:30p.m. on weekdays and 11:30p.m. on Friday and Saturday. Every night a message would be put up on the Television at 9:58. "It is 10p.m. Do you know where your children are?"

Mr Fairness

I'd happily take away every driving licence in the country & force people to take trains & buses if it meant no animal was ever killed on the road again!

Unfortunately, given the standard of SOME police driving.................!!!

In all serious, I don't drive anyway, but children have the right solely to be fed, clothed, watered, and not abused. They don't have the right to be loved and wanted, any more than any of us adults do, though, like you, I would suspect the world might be a better place if they were. Fat chance it will ever be the case!

I am all for treating kids as adults, but only if they are capable of responding to it by recognising and acting upon their social responsibilities as adults, at least on some occasions. Not all kids are imbued with the brain cells to grasp what that entails, so let them stay indoors and wreck their own homes, not other people's!

Steve M

Steve, I agree with you about cars.
I make sure my cat is away from the road at night even though I live in a country lane.
I have to drive, I look forward to the demise of cars and the return to horses or shank's pony.
I think that responsible adults have rights and children have none, apart from the right to protection against criminal acts.
They should of course be fed, sheltered and loved without question.
Everyone should have responsibilities of reason.
Do unto others etc.