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Teachers Who Paddle

January 26 2009 at 1:00 PM
American Way 

 
I mentioned under another thread that I had hoped Corpun would pick up on this site. They did already. These young elementary school teachers paddle their students and attests to its effectiveness. Their testimonials should give other countries reasons to reconsider. I share their distain for those anti-corporal punishment zealots who impugn their motives and promote their agenda with their nonsensical arguments. If they phase out the use of CP on the secondary school level it would be fair to the students and not give their opponents fodder. Theyre close enough in age to high school students and on the front lines enough that their reasoned arguments should be listened to. Heres their link they started in August with frequent updates.

teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com

 
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American Way

School Paddle Auction

January 29 2009, 1:03 PM 

Shown at 1:45 into video is the paddle. The beginning of each school year a line is carved into the paddle. Often the paddles are made by the vocational high school students in their wood shop class. A notches indicate the age of the paddle. I wonder how many teachers will bid on that paddle. N.B. REnee welcomes imput from this estimable Forum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59oIyIgCs70&fmt=18

IMPLEMENTS

This section deals with the actual implements used in corporal punishment in school. The names of various paddles are from our links with Rebfs Paddles or Officeplayground. These are internet sites whose paddles we rated from HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE to HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Our criteria was based on the following:LENGTH, WIDTH,THICKNESS, and IMPACT.


COACH: This is by far the largest paddle we could find on the internet as the best example of the worst possible paddle one could use. This monster comes very close to the one mentioned by Ted Gup in his story in Salon.com a few years ago. The measurements are 27x 4x 1/2 and we at TWP consider this HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE for corporal punishment at any level. Finally, the IMPACT is so severe and bruising that any educator that contemplates using it should be stopped if other educators want the general corporal punishment policy to be retained. (www.reb-online.com/coach.htm)

18: This paddle, the glittle brother of Coachh is not much better and worst of all, is the most common paddle type used in schools today. The measurements are 18x3 1/2 x 1/2 and we at TWP believe that any paddle close to this size is HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE. Like gCoach,h the IMPACT of this paddle is too severe and bruising. Also, using this paddle opens educators up to the accusation of abuse. (www.reb-online.com/18.htm)

SCHOOL HOUSE: The idiot who invented this montrosity had to have been a sadistic sicko- certainly not a teacher! Its measurements are 25 1/2x 2 1/2 x 1/2 and because of that, TWPfs grade is HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE. The IMPACT is actually worse, not because of the holes, but rather the narrowness which would leave a horizontial bruise gstripeh across the buttocks. That and the holes are good only for wrecking careers and lawsuits. (www.reb-online.com/schoolhouse.htm)

TAKE ALONG: This strangely named paddle is o.k. if used carefully and applied to older elementary children such as 5th or 6th grade. The measurements are 11x 4x 1/2 and because of its thickness being 1/2, TWPfs assessment is MODERATE and the decision should be left to the individual educator. The IMPACT will be some redness but if the number of swats is minimized (no more than 3), there should be little residual effects other than a bit of soreness for about an hour.(www.reb-online.com/takealong.htm)

THIN: This paddle is the favorite of the contributors to this blog who all teach 3rd to 5th grade. The measurements are 13 1/2 gx3 1/2x 1/4 and the best quality of this paddle is that it is indeed thin! While the IMPACT will certainly leave a sharp sting, no bruising will occur except perhaps to the ego. TWPfs only wish is that the THIN was a little wider instead of 3 1/2 g. Still, the thin gets TWPfs HIGHLY RECOMMENDED ranking.(www.reb-online.com/thin.htm)

PADDLEBALL: The only paddle not made by rebfs paddles, we had to really search for this one. A teacher friend of ours who teaches preK showed us her little paddle but could not tell where it came from since she got it from another teacher who left for a position out of state. This cute paddle is meant only for prek to 2nd grade and, because of the light and thin balsa wood, should be double or triple layered to prevent breaking. Even then, the IMPACT will be only a lite sting with no chance of bruising if used with just one or two pops.The measurements are 8x5x1/5 and the single layer thickness is an estimate. TWPfs rating is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED and who knows- maybe a single taste of this paddle will deter the little terrors from behaving badly in school later!

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

January 29 2009, 6:52 PM 

Dear Teachers Who Paddle: You mentioned in a previous post that the way CP has been carried out in other countries is very different from anything done in the States. Canada, England and Scotland should not have been lumped into that category. Implements like the strap differed in length, thickness and suppleness of leather. The Lochgelly tawse bore marks like M/H/XH on its handle and there were nursery, junior and senior canes. I differ with your belief that the strength and gender of the secondary school teacher versus the elementary school should really matter. One should consider whether it is administered judiciously, moderately and sparingly. Meek, little nuns have been known to be quite savage in meting out CP in Catholic Schools! After a child reaches the age when he or she can legally opt out of school they should be exempted. Principal Steve Halter paddling 17 year old Nancy of Booneville should never had been filmed. Did you notice how the CP critics used this atypical paddling to foster their agenda? Freshman and sophomore recidivism rate with suspension pales in comparison to corporal punishment in modifying behavior. If it isnt broken why fix it? Behavioral issues should not keep a child from a classroom. Students should not be given a choice between ISS or paddling; the choice that really mattered was whether they follow the rules; teachers should know what works best for their students. I am delighted you never quoted Proverbs but use a common sense approach to classroom discipline. This savage beating below shouldnt be lumped together with CP used in the States today or yesterday in Canada or in the British Isles. It may be in the interest of fairness that you consider making this distinction in future postings. BTW, I found the expression estimable Forum most appropriate and I didnt know that it was attributable to a single individual. Ill try not to forget to capitalize f. My apologies and kind regards.

http://www.corpun.com/vidkrs01.htm

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 12:58 AM 

I found something that might be worth sharing. Teachers Who Paddle welcomed comments and suggestions in a January post here and wrote about the nice things said here in their February blog. I believe they are for real. I know at least one reader here who doesn't. They're shopping for paddles this month! I added the bottom link because I believe this is the network 54 forum they must be referring to. Subscription manager. Always American Way.

Hello from teacherswhopaddle from Renee the editor. This is just an open invitation for your community to send to Jenny, Wendy, Michelle, and myself your comments and suggestions.

Looking forwards to hearing from y'all!


Renee



http://teacherswhopaddle.wordpress.com

MEMO TO ALL: Check out Portland.indymedia.org and Network54.com -The former is an anti-c.p. forum whom we at TWP challenged and the latter is somewhat pro who had some nice things to say about what TWP is trying to do.


http://www.network54.com/Browse/Society/Education/Schools

 
 

Bob T

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 3:14 AM 

American Way; I don't even know where to begin. I can only assume that your school experience was exactly the opposite of mine. Either that or you are simply misguided or wrong headed.

If you honestly believe that the teachers and Principals who enthusiastically endorse the use of CP in schools have pure motives you are a babe in the woods.

I looked at a school handbook that you linked and it looked to me like it was authored by a child abusing sadist.

One thing I know for sure from my own personal experience is that the only teachers and Principals who use CP are the ones who LIKE USING IT.


I would debate the issue with you but you are about 3 years too late. I have already debated and won every argument put forth on this forum. I no longer care enough to bother with you.

The fact of the matter is that SCP is child abuse perpetrated by child abusers hiding behind the en loco parentis concept.

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 4:44 AM 

With 200,000 paddlings a year occurring in 21 states, albeit in fewer and fewer districts, it's a reasonable surmise that some teachers and principals paddle students because they like to but there are many and I dare say the overwhelming majority don't. I don't think hundreds of thousands, perhaps more, of parents and school board members would agree that all administer corporal punishment because they like to or they would not advocate for it to continue. As far as the links to student handbooks I would suggest that you take up that debate with Colin Farrell. I believe that some schools that have corporal punishment as an option in the handbook don't use it. The decision to employ that option on a school wide basis is up to the incumbent principal and at times is left up to the teacher on a case to case basis. Whether "teachers who paddle" blog is on the up and up is another matter all together. I suggest you take that up with them. They have written to this forum welcoming feedback. Maybe others may care to opine?

 
 
Alan Turing

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 7:06 AM 

Bob T:

One thing I know for sure from my own personal experience is that the only teachers and Principals who use CP are the ones who LIKE USING IT.

I think it's time for me to put my professional hat on here.

The world is full of people who know "for sure", "from their own personal experiences", plenty of things. As many of these things known for sure are mutually contradictory, these people can't all be right. The trouble is, one individual's personal experience might not be typical.

Here's an example. I've mentioned it a few times in this Forum, but it bears repeating.

Some people have expressed the view, quite forcibly, that girls were never caned in English schools. Now I happen to have met three women who mentioned, in the course of conversation, that they had been caned at school, and I have no reason to disbelieve them. (I've given the full details elsewhere, and if anyone's interested I'll provide a link.) So -- the assertion that girls were never caned must be wrong. In fact, I've also carried out some statistical calculations to suggest upper and lower bounds for the number.

But suppose I hadn't met these three women, or that the conversation hadn't actually wandered into that area? Then, "from my personal experience", I'd "know for sure" that girls had never been caned at school. But I'd have been wrong.

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 12:56 PM 

I happen not to agree with all the positions teachers who paddle have advocated but I commend them for balancing the space given to those who oppose their position. I wondered why they singled out this esteem Forum until I put "teacherswhopaddle" through a search engine and found that IMHO they were being treated unfairly as in this recent link from "itdawnedonme". However, I found it profitable to search those sites because it did in fact engender a posting by "batguano 101", admittedly a rather peculiar name, worth reading in the Implied Observer. I disagree with the four young women elementary school teachers about paddling in secondary schools. I would caution them to be more careful in recommending blogs. This is the kind of criticism they welcome not the ad hominem attacks they have been the subject of. I think they expected that response but not to that degree. I think comments like mine and batguano 101 are what the teachers are looking for and they may have come to the right place when they asked for feedback.

http://itdawnedonme.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/kids-in-school-getting-an-education-plus-a-beating/

http://impliedobserver.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/is-corporal-punishment-addictive/

 
 
Steve M

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 1:52 PM 

BOB T

Now you should know better!

Isn't this enshrined in your constitution?

The right of every citizen to bear arms?

All they want to do is adapt it slightly-the right of every citizen to bare bums!

Seriously, any teacher advertising for the right to paddle may or may not be a paedo, nonce or pervert.

What they most assuredly are is useless as a teacher, if they need that crutch to get things done. I had plenty of teachers whom even I respected at school-all had one thing in common;they never countenanced the use of corporal punishment or sending you to someone else for it either.

In other words, they were dedicated professionals, dedicated to teaching at least.


Steve M

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 2:57 PM 

Corporal punishment is like any disciplinary tool including detention and suspension that can be used or abused. Teachers should be given the tools to employ that they deem helpful. It shouldn't be assumed that "ALL" teachers who paddle are incompetent or act out of perverted lust or uncontrolled anger. The student codes of conduct are openly published and approved by elected boards on how these three principle disciplinary tool should be administered. Churchill said something about democracies that might be worth considering and Jefferson said something about free press that might be worth considering as well. Certain decisions are best left to the people and not unelected commissions. For what it is worth IMHO this happens to be one of them.

 
 
Alan Turing

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 4:25 PM 

Steve:

I had plenty of teachers whom even I respected at school

And so did I. The difference is that some of them used corporal punishment, and some didn't. (There was also one temporary PE teacher who used it too severely, but that has no bearing on the present argument.)

In fact, my recollection is that all the teachers in my primary school used corporal punishment, even one lovely man who clearly hated doing it, but felt that it was expected of him. It wasn't hard, one whack with the slipper for a nine-year-old, used perhaps three or four times in the whole year. (That's three or four times in total, not per child!)

The point, surely, is to do with expectation. That was the way things worked in those days. Indeed, a secondary school in the fifties or sixties which didn't use corporal punishment at all on boys was such a rarity that books would be written about it. (Anyone remember A S Neill's Summerhill School? Lots of links about it on Google.)

 
 
Steve M

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 4:40 PM 

Yes, it may have worked well then, but does it have any place in today's allegedly civilized societies?

The problem with letting the people decide is keeping the marketeers out of it-otherwise you gey Dubya or The Spice Girls!

Who said Communism was so bad??happy.gifhappy.gifwink.gif


Steve M

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 18 2009, 6:32 PM 

It might come as a surprise to some that the ACLU and Human Rights Watch use the race card in arguing their anti corporal punishment position but not to me. African American teachers in Mississippi and Latinos teachers in Texas preside in districts that have a pro corporal punishment position. The principle of subsidiarity results in the statistical skew toward minority students being paddle not racism. 47,000 in Texas and 7.5% of the student population of Mississippi and significantly less in the other 19 states are paddled. The numbers attest to it being used as a deterrent. It's interesting that 1n 2003 there were 22 states that permitted paddling and in 2009 there were 21 states. This is remarkable when the states that do not permit it have a disproportionate control over the media as witnessed by the space given to those who oppose corporal punishment. Their blog provides a welcome balance regardless of your views. The principle of subsidiarity applies to who, where, when and how or whether corporal punishment is administered so school districts decide. It's not an Athenian democracy nor is it mob rule. Monroe would be proud. Georgia is a state that permits corporal punishment and the four anonymous teachers are from this state who and are under the authority of a single school district. Some one asked this relevant question of them this month.


If your local school board was to consider dropping c.p., how would you state your objections to it?

This person must be a school board member.

First, as an employee of that board, I would NOT take a stand -directly anyway. Rather, the principals and teachers would probably meet with central office administrators to voice our concerns and questions about policy changes.

Second, the top brass (aka Chief Superintendent) would report to the board his and our misgivings about such a policy change -such as the probability of a higher number of suspensions. Think of the U.S. Army Generals advising the U.S. President on war strategy. In both cases, the elected leadership will make the final decision -as it should be.

 
 

Bob T

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 19 2009, 1:43 AM 

First of all I find it incredulous that American Way quotes Churchill to support a position on SCP. I think Churchill wrote about the brutality he suffered at the hands of his school Admins. and was not a proponent.

Second I think we should take a look at the demographic in those areas where SCP is strongly supported by parents in those school districts. I think I have seen some of the people who support having their children beaten at the hands of some teacher or principal who clearly does not love them. Here is a fair representation of those type of parents... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaxECcTjCuw

 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 19 2009, 11:39 AM 

More than twenty years later more than 20% of British teachers still agree with the 49.9% of the Parliament, not necessarily teachers in 1986, that corporal punishment should be permitted in school. You can look at this as half full or half empty but in any event more than one out of five teachers are not permitted to use a tool that they think is still of value after not being in use for over twenty years. I imagine some teachers were infants at the time of the ban. The United States school districts leave room for reevaluating as in the third link.

The four young (look at their graduation dates)teachers (however they may have voted) from teacherswhopaddle from Georgia don't sound like rednecks nor do they seem like brutes to me. Here are Twiggs County, Georgia results who reversed the ban presidential election (third link) results.

Twiggs County 53.0% Obama 2,402 votes to 46.0% McCain 2,087.


http://www.todayinhistory.de/index.php?what=thmanu&manu_id=1526&tag=22&monat=7&year=2035&dayisset=1=en

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3123827/Teachers-Bring-back-the-cane-to-restore-order-in-schools.html

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/jul/23/georgia-corporal-punishment-thing-past-most-school/


 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 19 2009, 9:54 PM 

A statistic worth noting from the USA. The pendulum will swing or the numbers will at least stabilize when reason prevails over the fear of litigation. The anti corporal punishment propaganda can hardly be characterized as rational.

Total students paddled
Year Number Percent1
1976 1,521,896 3.5
1978 1,438,317 3.4
1980 1,408,303 3.4
1984 1,332,317 3.3
1986 1,099,731 2.7
1988 898,370 2.2
1990 613,760 1.5
1992 555,531 1.3
1994 470,683 1.1
1997 457,754 1.0
1998 365,058 0.8
2000 342,038 0.7
2003 301,016 0.6
2004 272,028 0.6
2006 223,190 0.5

 
 
Steve M

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 19 2009, 10:17 PM 

Big question here, and sorry I've missed the answer already if you've previously mentioned it!!

How many states actually permit paddling?

And, sorry, 2nd question-is it permitted in parts of a state, or does a State legislature ban definitely apply state-wide?

Thanks


Steve M

 
 
American Way

20 States 2009

February 19 2009, 11:09 PM 

From Family Education Magazine: If you live in a state where the practice is allowed, how is it working? Do you want to see the practice continue? If you live in a state where such punishment is banned, would you support its re-introduction into the classroom?
Where the states stand on corporal punishment:
Alabama--Legal
Alaska--Illegal
Arizona--Legal
Arkansas--Legal
California--Illegal
Colorado--Legal
Connecticut--Illegal
Delaware--Illegal
District of Columbia--N/A
Florida--Legal
Georgia--Legal
Hawaii--Illegal
Idaho--Legal
Illinois--Illegal
Indiana--Legal
Iowa--Illegal
Kansas--Legal
Kentucky--Legal
Louisiana--Legal
Maine--Illegal
Maryland--Illegal
Massachusetts--Illegal
Michigan--Illegal
Minnesota--Illegal
Mississippi--Legal
Missouri--Legal Montana--Illegal
Nebraska--Illegal
Nevada--Illegal
New Hampshire--Illegal
New Jersey--Illegal
New Mexico--Legal
New York--Illegal
North Carolina--Legal
North Dakota--Illegal
Ohio--Illegal
Oklahoma--Legal
Oregon--Illegal
Pennsylvania--Illegal
Rhode Island--Illegal
South Carolina--Legal
South Dakota--Illegal
Tennessee--Legal
Texas--Legal
Utah--Illegal
Vermont--Illegal
Virginia--Illegal
Washington--Illegal
West Virginia--Illegal
Wisconsin--Illegal
Wyoming--Legal


Posted by Arrow2u
November 25, 2008 1:21 PM
NO ABUSE
First, let me say that I have been an educator for nearly 20 years. I've witnessed changes in schools, with teaching, testing, and students. Things have gotten worse! There's a great deal more to accomplish because of standardized testing and money. Not only has student attentiveness diminished over the years but so has their classroom behavior as well as their basic respect about themselves and toward their teachers/adults. This CAN BE TURNED around with the inclusion of corporal punishment as an option for teachers or principals. Perhaps there can be a designated trained person at the school that disseminates the punishment? Ironically, teachers are sent to training several times throughout any given school year. Well, couldn't teachers also be trained in how to apply the paddle appropriately with clear distinctions between punishment and abuse! If a teacher crosses this clear line then they should know that they too will face disciplinary action including 1) Warning and Immediate Retraining Hours; 2) Written Notification Included in Teacher's File and a Monetary Fine; 3) Teacher Unable to Apply Discipline; 4) If done then Immediate Job Dismissal. This policy and procedure would work for me, and it definitely will inspire a change in student attitude and attentiveness during lessons. It's a win-win for the school, for teachers, and for students who are there to actually learn in a structured, supportive, learning environment.
108 people found this comment helpful.


 
 
American Way

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 19 2009, 11:12 PM 

From a previous post.

Re: Southern USA CP regulations January 23 2009, 4:50 PM

I hope these observations, all to the best of my knowledge, may prove helpful for those unfamiliar with corporal punishment in the states.

Where corporal punishment is allowed has everything to do with achieving a consensus among the adults. Time passes so quickly that in a matter of years those schools employing corporal punishment become fewer and fewer. This makes it less likely that a parent can say we were paddle and it didn't do us any harm. Grandparents can still say that. Few larger urban schools still employ corporal punishment where some would say it would do the most good. As their population grows more cosmopolitan a regional custom becomes less acceptable and more likely to involve unwanted publicity and litigation. Public schools are more concern with order while Church related schools salvation so use a biblical rationale.

Every Catholic school in the USA bans corporal punishmnets. A policy formed by their bishops, perhaps to put their own house in order. Each district either permits or bans corporal punishment within its jurisdiction. A principal writes the rules and determine who administers the punishment. The district can be a county or a smaller entity. The state legislature and governor can, of course, ban, continue or reinstitute corporal punishment througout their state. They can choose to extend their authority even to private schools.


 
 
Steve M

Re: Teachers Who Paddle

February 20 2009, 3:19 PM 

Thanks for the info.

Rather worringly for me, as I suspected,the majority of paddling states also have the death penalty, to which I've fundamentally opposed since the age of 6.

And a lot of them are ex-slave States, too.

I don't wish to suggest such views should be ignored as the squawks of sub-human apes. But it is significant that lots of these states have a poor record on human rights, and you have to ask if states that still pass 60-75% of death sentences on blacks can handle paddling without keeping paedos and sadists completely out of things.



Steve M

 
 
 
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