Any chance we can institute a new rule?

Name the school or don't get posted.

There are obvious exceptions-Doc & JJ, regardless of anyone's opinion on their respective veracity, would not be in a position to name.

But there are too many other people posting increasingly without regard to Lotta Nonsense's wise words-an un-named school is a fictional one.

Well, what about it, folks?


Steve M

Hi Steve. I yield to nobody, not even to you, in my unstinting admiration for Lotta Nonsense. Sadly I have to live every day with the trauma and guilt of typing with the hand that quite inadvertently may have precipitated her untimely departure from this estimable Forum!

I fully understand the reasons behind her immortal dictum that

An Unnamed School is a Fantasy School

first postulated, I believe, in the title she chose for this post from June 2004 in which she also sets out the principles underlying her edict.

Unfortunately, despite my admiration for Lotta, I cannot totally agree with those principles. I incline rather more to the even earlier definitive statement by Sarajane (who some say was not unconnected with Lotta Nonsense) which is to be found, under a heading which has become a Forum catch phrase, in this post from June 2002. In it Sarajane not only sets out very humane grounds for avoiding unnecessary criticism of the spelling or grammar of other contributors, but also defines the circumstances in which it may be reasonable not to name a school.

I do not though, totally agree with Sarajane either. To arrive at my position I would have to take something from each of these two very eminent contributors and add a little bit of my own:

• From Sarajane: If someone says simply 'I was caned at school', there's absolutely no reason to ask for the name of the school as the information would add nothing to one's knowledge and understanding of CP.
• Also from Sarajane: If someone says 'I was caned at an English school in 1999' or 'I was caned on the bare at an English state school', such events are (to say the least) extremely rare and to know the name of the school(s) would add very significantly to one's knowledge of CP.
• From Lotta Nonsense: In a tiny fraction of cases there may be good reason for not naming the school - e.g. where to do so would bring embarrassment upon the writer or upon some other person identifiable from the events described.
• And from me: If to name the school would lead easily to identification when one prefers to remain anonymous then it is always justifiable not to name the school.

Thus in my own case I have usually named my secondary school in posts which refer to it. If I have not done so it has been oversight rather than deliberate intent.

However, I have not named my Infant and Junior schools. To do so would possibly entail some embarrassment for a person whose punishment I have described here and who could readily be identified from FR if the school was named. In addition it would be fairly easy for anyone to directly identify me. I feel justified in this stance on the additional grounds of Sarajane's first dictum in my list above. Everything I have posted about punishment at my Infant and Junior school has been echoed by other contributors discussing other schools, or has been documented at other schools in sources such as FR. As Sarajane put it, to identify that school would actually add nothing to our collective knowledge and understanding of school CP.

As a relatively new poster both here and elsewhere, I've decided to put my filling into this , regardless of my lack of pedigree on the site. Why? Because I believe it is a very important issue. I am answering this from my personal perspective, no one else's, and I don't expect anyone else to necessarily agree with me, and certainly not to use my views as any guide either to good practice or to aid them in their decision making. Frankly, I wouldn't have the up on anybody like that!

It seems to me there are basically three sets of actors here- the poster ; his/her erstwhile comrades in arms in the school ; the staff who taught them and the current school leadership.

So lets take each category separately. ...

The poster. The poster on this and other sites chooses a personal degree of anonymity. Some make a major attempt to remain anonymous, others don't, some need to be anonymous for professional reasons ; others don't. Some are fun posters, some are serious.

Clearly with such a disparate collection of people , positions and motives. it is difficult to make hard and fast rules. . For example, in my case until a short while ago I would never have posted, full stop, Why? Because at that time I held , and had previously been in this position for nearly two decades, positions of some authority in Higher Education both here and overseas, where I would have been expected to pursue a corporate view, not paddle my own canoe so to speak.

Now, having moved away from corporate management, and into visiting professorships and the like, I can revert to my views without fear or favour, because at least in higher education there still is an expectation of certain personal freedoms. So I don't go to any great extent to hide my identity .Anyone with a few spare minutes could easily identify me- indeed on another site at least two have, thoughtfully , in each case writing to my private email. , none with malicious intent. Two others think they have, but haven't! I also decided before posting that I will never get involved in confirming/denying my identity on line, just as I have no intention to attempt to identify any fellow posters. Courtesy to each and from each. .

1. The School. Personally I do protect , and intend to continue to do so the identity of my schools ( I attended four in total). Whenever writing I will identify the type of school , and any salient features to the point at issue, but nothing further. The reason? Well it very much relates to the points made by Another Lurker. In respect of both identity( my 'public' persona does not relate to my schooling per se) and protection ( schools are not in a position to comment or hit back). Our perceptions of school are just that perceptions. They are personal rationalizations and beliefs, they are not , I'm sorry, the WHOLE truth ( every story is multifaceted, shaded and incomplete), yes and before anyone asks, I have a sneaking regard for some of the home truths the ethnomethodologists told us!

My exceptions ? Basically where the School is accused of breaking the law..or breachiong so otther vital trust.Name it or shut up!

Some may say that isn't adequate to test veracity ...well so be it , but I can tell you the canes were not made of candy!.

Schools have reputations, often hard won., and generally I believe that unless they have done something to breach trust , they have every right to expect certain loyalty from their alumnae. If an individual feels that for some reason of historical, social or personal record that trust has been broken, obviously the remedy lies in their own hands.

2. The Staff Past and Present This links with the last point. I have in my life met hundreds and hundreds of teachers. Some I agree with , some I think are mistaken, some I think are in the wrong job. Nevertheless I would say that nearly all these people genuinely believe they have the interest of their pupils at heart. Back in time I don't think this was much different EXCEPT that the social climate and norms of behaviour were substantially different than they are today. We can't interpret events thirty and forty years ago through the telescope of today's standards of acceptability. The classic here is , of course, bare bottomed caning. Remember when this happened ( and historically it did, and not as an adjunct to paedophilia ) our society was happy to hang men and women for murder, lock up our 'young offenders' in approved schools and borstals, where the regime was far from liberal, and the local Bobby could use his belt on the local kids. That isn't to be an apologist. That's just how it was.

3. I remember a very sad conversation with an old teacher ( not any of my schools) who was recounting how he had had a meeting with a boy he thrashed many years ago. The boy was still bitter, and the old man was despairing. He said. Of course I told him I wouldn't do the same now, even if it was legal, but the past is the past. I never knowingly took a boy beyond his limits. I looked and acted ferociously but , believe me, I was careful.

Now I can't judge who was right or wrong....neither can anyone other than the participants in that event. Many of that generation are now dead, so it is their memory we have have to consider. ...and who has the right of reply for them?

4. Other 'Comrades' Classmates and friends have the same rights and expectations as staff. They didn't ask to get drawn into our stories, so we should protect them. Names are not , in that sense important, unless it is someone who is known to not object Normally I feel indications will suffice and are appropriate.

These are only my views and how I will approach these issues. Others may feel they wish to reveal their schools or out staff who they liked/disliked etc., that is for their consciences. As I said I wouldn't dream of imposing my value system on anyone else, I just expect others to respect it as I respect theirs.

Finally you know we shouldn't get a undue sense of importance to any of these projects. No matter how historically accurate , and identifiable, very few of our reminiscences , or our stories will be the stuff of history!

On the other hand I can well see them recycled into undergraduate essays.........think on that!

A very thoughtful and informative post, prof.n. I have very much enjoyed your contributions to this estimable Forum so far, and I hope that you will find it possible to continue to post here.

Steve

Can I ask if this thread was instigated in light of our influx of fun posters, or was there another reason,

My personal view, it should be the prerogative of any poster to preserve as much of their identity, including the naming of their school as they so wish for what ever reason , in the same manner that other posters should respect their decision.

When first joining this forum, there existed, "to be credited was to name a school", the reasoning I could understand to some degree, the forum more active in numbers and frequently divided opinions caused contributors to go to great lengths for verification, How many remember the thread Over and over again by Terry Im sure in some cases this put undue pressure on some posters to reveal information that they might not otherwise have done or to leave the forum.


Personally, I see nothing wrong in naming a school, only should someone feel comfortable to do so, most teachers and schools acted within the guidelines and law of times, and events of the day giving no cause or reason of redress, my view, if someone comes to this forum and can identify or relate to a particular school, by the most they have arrived here for much the same reason as most of us. The naming of teachers and pupils in particular is something Ive avoided unless to verify, that a certain teacher was at a certain school where such has been referenced , names mean very little to anyone other than the naming person and serve no credibility, gender is quite sufficient.

In my case, I felt no reason not to name attended schools, both had been swallowed up in the closures of time, however it wasn't until quite recent that I named my primary school, still in existence albeit in another form , my reasons the school in question was to be part of a documentary, not unlike of the popular TV series 7 up, a reverse view of life going back to schooldays, a comparison of then and now. Any references to pupils, teachers or events could have easily to lead to possible identification. The programme fell by the board for reasons I'm not at liberty to disclose, so disclosure of the school, no longer poses the same concerns for me or others .

Naming a school proved nothing conclusive in the course of events that might or might not have happened to a particular person. It might confirm to some degree if referenced back to FR that CP happened at a particular school , but that in itself was only as reliable as those who were contributing such information under a particular school , no reference to CP didnt prove it was non existent at that school in the same that a school like Bacons meant a posters claim was vaid. It wasnt unheard of in the earlier days of FR that some of its own contributors were not all that bona fide in what they contributed and FR suffered much the same as this forum.

Ketta

Just a brief (!) reply. Firstly thanks another lurker for your comments. .Ketta's posting raised one very important point I had forgotten...forgotten because of the ethnocentric tendency a tendency I exhibit as much as the next man, to see the world though our own glass darkly ,, and interpret messages only though our own experience.

When I read Ketta's post I realised that for many the world of the schools has changed. Many schools change ( eg comprehensivisation , reorganisations , renaming, relocation etc etc). So many of you will not be able to go back to the very stones which you trod , so to speak.

A few of us , by chance or good fortune (or not) , went to schools which stood long before us , and , with luck, ( I might not have said that in the full flush of socialist youth) will probably stand long after we are dust and forgotten .It brings to mind the famous hall scene from Dead Poets Society... even worse 'the Skulls' (.but I'd better not go there).

However the point is that these schools do actually keep in touch and value their alumnae, because they have a role in a tradition which you don't appreciate at the time you are in education there , but which acts as the life blood of the institution past and present. Alumnae are the future first 'old boys' : as parents, then fund raisers, then advisers, and lobbyists, and when their hair goes grey, ( not yet a long while , I hope) some become governors. This continuity , I feel places an obligation of sorts on these 'men ( or women) of good fortune ' , an obligation surely to tell the truth, yes, but to be gracious, and to preserve memory..; Think Mark Anthony's speech!

However , for others not so fortunate, their memories can have , like the feet of Ozymandias no meaning for their empires are fallen.

So I see myself not as 'obligated by membership, but as willing by cause of favour owed to protect the good name of this organisation, and not to let what are , in the scheme of the years 'minor' differences over petty matters obscure the essential good the institution has done. Let me put it this way . I know ( and its veracity I cannot confirm or deny) of a rumour about a Head of my school some twenty years before my day. If true it represents a couple of demerits against an otherwise outstanding record. Does it matter? Not in the accounts book of time. Does it do good to dwell on it ? No . Can we learn lessons from it ? Of course , and we must! But we don't have to name him or the School to achieve that..

Finally the long reach of memory. I posted some while ago on the Yahoo site a short piece regarding my first 'bad' experience in school. I won't repeat it as it would serve no purpose here, just suffice to say that for the best of reasons it happened that this incident occurred when I was five , a pre preparatory student in a huge 'public school ,( boys and Girl's senior department, plus preparatory (all boarding and day), and pre preparatory (day) . Although only five I had just been 'put up ' to the 8 year old form in Preparatory school ' to keep my interest'.. I therefore had little knowledge that day of the kids who shared my class.

After I posted I got an email. From a boy I had never heard of , but who confirmed my story. He was there and saw it all....two desks behind....but as I was so much younger didn't know me!. He went through that school from 8 to 18 ..and ended up a member on the same group site as me I wonder why? .....perhaps nothing is coincidence!

I do not think that we should insist on a school being named. In any case it would be easy to name a school that the poster did not attend, but had a reputation for severe corporal punishment, such as Bacon's.

I have mentioned the name of my grammar school on here, but there was just normal corporal punishment there. The head gave out regular canings and the PE teachers , and one or two others, handed out a few slipperings. There is no mention of corporal punishment amongst the memories on the FR site, but this only confirms what others have said, that the CP memories on FR are the tip of a very large ice berg.

For those of you who know my school there is a picture of the PE teacher who must have amassed 100s of slipperings in his time , including myself once. He is pictured with the 1964/5 rugby team. He taught at the school until retirement so it must have a frustrating last few years for him, unable to use the gym shoe.

A teacher from the school that I still see told me he ( the PE teacher)can see the playing fields of the school from his house and looks over there through binoculars to check how the PE lessons are going, and complains about modern teaching methods.

"A teacher from the school that I still see told me he ( the PE teacher)can see the playing fields of the school from his house and looks over there through binoculars to check how the PE lessons are going."

His case comes up next Monday.

Brian Damage, for clarification and the avoidance of doubt perhaps you would be kind enough to point us towards any statute of English Law which would prohibit a citizen whose property overlooked a school playing field from surveying said playing field, occupied or otherwise, with or without binoculars.

I must admit that the teacher who looks down at the playing fields of my old school seems to behaving oddly, but I don't think that he is perving at girls, just looking at how they teach PE today. He was not considered in any way odd at school, but looked upon as a highly respected PE teacher.

He started a tradition , which continues to this day , of a school which has great success at various sports. An outstanding example of this is a girl from my school who won a senior doubles match at Wimbledon only yesterday against world class opponents. She is 17 and will also be appearing in the junior singles tournament.

Hi Big John MOI. Perhaps they were infra-red, the binoculars that is, not the girls! Or maybe someone is fairly good at layers.

In any event your enviable ability to produce the appropriate picture at the right time is clearly as excellent as ever!

Great picture Big John. However I reckon my old PE teacher is a bit further away!

He lives about 400 metres from the school and if he wanted to perve binoculars would not be good enough. Next time I go past his house ( quite difficult as it's cul-de -sac)I'll check to see if he has a hubble telescope in his bedroom.

Another_Lurker observes above:

"for clarification and the avoidance of doubt perhaps you would be kind enough to point us towards any statute of English Law which would prohibit a citizen whose property overlooked a school playing field from surveying said playing field, occupied or otherwise, with or without binoculars."

This leaves me still with the feeling that for clarification and avoidance of doubt should such a statute exist, Another_Lurker would undoubtedly present it to us "as a matter of public record".

What do Academic Art Thefts, Illegal Bonus Payments and Destruction of the Twin Towers have in common? Answers on a postcard, from Lurkerland.

A Lurkologist, in the course of looking for something else I have just discovered your post above. I have no idea how I missed it before, possibly something to do with the posting discontinuities made necessary by people who don't log in or who have in the past caused distress to the Management of this estimable Forum. Which of these categories you belong to I do not know, but I'll be charitable and assume it is the first!

I have absolutely no idea what your post above means. As far as I'm aware I have no connection with Academic Art Thefts, Illegal Bonus Payments or Destruction of the Twin Towers. Nor, despite a fair amount of past delving in the archives of the Forum, do I recall anything hinting at or establishing any such connection for Fran of Wembley, whom you apparently believe me to be.

No, on second thoughts, I'll amend the above. With Another_Lurker complete honesty comes as part of the package. I did once pay someone who was clearing my back jungle garden at a ridiculously low price a little more than they'd asked as neither of us had anticipated the unfortunate plunge into the long forgotten and heavily overgrown pond, and the water did, after all, go over the top of their wellingtons. Is this the Illegal Bonus Payment you mention? If so I can assure you that it was all fair, square and above board, and recorded on the invoice as 'Extras to estimate'.

Past experience tells me that I'm unlikely to get it, but I really would appreciate a précis of your post above pitched at a level comprehensible by Another_Lurker, one of the very few habitués of this estimable Forum without a tertiary academic qualification to his name and thus limited in his ability to grasp the cryptic or the complex.

I've no idea why Academic Art Thefts, Illegal Bonus Payments and the Destruction of the Twin Towers in New York should be related. But, as a schoolboy living in the borough of Willesden in the fifties and early sixties, I recall the discussions about how we would become part of the new London Borough of Brent by merging with the adjacent (and a bit more up-market) borough of Wembley.

Ah, Wembley. Didn't that used to have a football stadium with, if I recall correctly, Twin Towers? Weren't those towers destroyed when the new stadium was built?

And didn't someone called Fran come from Wembley?

Hi Alan Turing. Ah, well done! You may possibly have got the Twin Towers connection. Now how about the Academic Art Thefts and Illegal Bonus Payments?

As for Wembley, my sole connection with the place is that the one and only proper football match I've ever attended in my life was a Youth (or it could have been Schoolboy) International at Wembley Stadium when it still had the twin towers. England v Germany I think it was, almost certainly 1953 or 1954 (though it could just possibly have been 1952). I've no idea who won or what the score was!

A_L, I'd have thought you would have been at wembley in 1980!
Forest was a power in those days but not quite that day.

PAUL

I'm trawling the net to get the line-ups for A_L, if I can find them.

But, it's a sure bet, if it was 1952 or 53, then Duncan Edwards was captaining the England team;by 1954, just short of his 18th birthday, he won his first full England Cap.


Steve

Hi Paul b. Somewhat off topic, but as contributions are a bit thin on the ground today I shall assuage my guilt and respond to your post. Almost every male born pre-1950 has at least one obsession from the trilogy of football, steam engines and real ale. Many, possibly even a majority, are preoccupied by all three.

For some reason, despite both visiting Wembley Stadium and living alongside a railway in my formative years, and spending my teens in an area where real ale was in plentiful supply, I never developed an interest in any of them. Hence I quite genuinely have absolutely no idea what befell Nottingham Forest in 1980, or any other year for that matter. If I did have an interest in watching football I certainly wouldn't pay ludicrous sums of money to sit in a freezing cold stadium miles from the action, I'd buy a big telly and watch in comfort!

Hi Steve, I might have guessed that with your attention to detail you'd be looking to fill in the missing bits. Despite my somewhat dismissive remarks about football to Paul b, if you do come up with anything I'd be very interested. One's past assumes an increasing importance at my advanced age! The only thing I can be sure of datewise is that it was between September 1952 and July 1954 inclusive.

How did I come to be there despite having absolutely no interest in football? Well the trip was organised by the father of one of my classmates. As I was the class swot I think he saw me as a desirable foil for his son, who certainly wasn't! As a result he persuaded my parents I'd enjoy it. From memory, I did, but not enough to develop an interest in football!

Hi A_L

Have found the book & ordered it, so will return when the line-up is with us.

In the meantime, have a see what the well-dressed number 7 of his day was wearing a little after your Wembley Trip:-




The question regarding those "shorts" might be whether Stan's ability to send the opposing full-back the wrong way every time was because he went one way & the shorts another even in the slightest breeze.

Or, did he just pioneer illegal immigration with them?


AND-were they shorts at all? Here's a list of what most of the First Division were going to be wearing in the 1953/4 season:-




So, Arsenal, Man Utd. et al running around in STOCKINGS & KNICKERS!

Degenerates-no wonder we lost 3-6 at home to Hungary that season!



Steve

Just for the record and I assume Paul b is a fan of theirs( Wolves), Nottingham Forest lost to Woverhampton Wanderers in the 1980 League Cup Final. In the same year Forest beat Hamburg to win the European Cup.

I suspect the England v West Germany game attended by A_L was a schoolboy International. These games were very popular at the time and many schools arranged trips to Wembley.

Thank you Steve and Declan. I am indebted to you both for the information. Steve, I'm not very happy about you laying out money for books, but maybe you collect them anyway - I hope so!

I remember those baggy shorts! I also remember the football boots we had at Junior school (never had to play after that), heavy, rigid soles, lacing well up the ankle, with solid toe caps, the sort of thing you could happily have dropped an outside door on and not noticed. And great big nailed on studs consisting, I think, of layers of hard leather, or maybe wood. Absolutely lethal, and we didn't have shin pads.

Whilst I don't know much about football, I think it was possibly a harder game in the past than it is now, both physically and financially. At one time back in the 60s I lived near a man who for a time was acting manager of Notts County. He certainly didn't live a life of luxury, very far from it!

You know your football Declan!
Needless to say so does Steve.

This thread seems to have turned into a football thread, but as it's Steve's thread I'll make the assumption he doesn't mind.

I mentioned yesterday that I used to live near (and in fact knew fairly well as a neighbour) a man who was manager of Notts County in the 60s. I've just looked him up on spec and to my amazement I find that he played for various First Division clubs pre-war. Am I right in saying that way back then the First Division was the top rank of UK football?

Ernie Coleman (though neighbours his own age nearly all called him Tim). See Wikipedia here. A gentleman, and a man who knew his sports injuries. He once looked at a shoulder problem I had which the medical profession had faffed about with for over a year. He said not to worry, it would clear up of it's own accord but it would always be a bit noisey. Spot on - it was absolutely fine within a month, but it still creaks and grinds audibly 40+ years later!

Despite the fact that I assume he must have been quite a high ranking player, football hadn't treated Ernie very well financially. His car was one of the oldest in the area and the family certainly weren't well off. I think the pampered darlings playing at the top level today with their vast houses and flash cars are extremely fortunate by comparison!

If Tim Coleman played for Arsenal in the 30s he must have indeed been a top class player, and yes the first division was the top tier then.

I also used to live near an ex Notts County manager who fell on hard times.This was none other than Tommy Lawton , one of the greatest footballers of all time. After a distinguished career he briefly managed Notts County in the 1950s, but when I knew him in the late 70s he was getting on the same bus as me in the mornings and then wandering around Nottingham, going to the pub where people would buy him drinks , and then going home and pretending to his wife that he had been at work all day.

He was persuaded to write a book by a journalist but no publisher would touch it thinking that no one would be interested in some old blokes memoirs. He did find a job working for the local paper and was ok during his later years. His book, adapted by a writer is an outstanding read but was I think published after his death.

Oh dear Declan, you've just made me a little sad. I never knew Tommy Lawton except at second hand, but I'm very sorry to hear that he fell on hard times. I guess all the good footballers from earlier eras must have wished they'd been born a lot later when there was big money in the game!

When I knew Tommy Lawton at second hand in the mid 60s he was running a pub at Lowdham. His daughter was going out with a lad with whom I worked and for whom I used to navigate on car rallies. We often used to go to spectate at National and International rallies and being a little older, and a lot less wild, than my colleague, I sometimes found myself 'minding' the young lady while he pursued his own devices. Sadly I lost touch with them when I changed my job.

I have no objection whatever to this thread going the way it has!

Tommy Lawton was England's centre-forward when he stunned the football world in autumn 1947, signing for 3rd Division South Notts County from 1st Division Chelsea. He got the maximum wage(limited by Football League rules from 1905-1961!!) wherever he went, but the Notts County chairman had a part-time job for him as a car salesman worth another £10 a week(which WAS the maximum wage for footballers then!).

My late father maintained until his dying day in 1998 that Tommy Lawton was peerless as a header of the ball. The only one who came near in Dad's opinion, was my own idol(still is), Denis Law.

Both had the uncanny knack of appearing to go up a second or so too early for a header. Then, they hovered at the top of their jump for a split second, before powering a header past the helpless goalie or to a better-placed colleague for a simple goal.

Everton signed Tommy before the war from Tranmere, aged 17, for the unheard-of monster-fee-for-a-teenager of £6,500!!!! Within 3 years, he'd shot them to the League Title & was twice 1st Division top scorer.

Not long after he went to Notts County, he went on England's summer tour, in which they played Portugal, then a 2nd-class nation in football. But Portugal were not quite so bad that they were expected to lose AT HOME 0-10. But they did, Tommy scoring 4.

The entire Portugese team snubbed the official banquet. Rumour had it they were paranoid Tommy might try heading or shooting a bread roll their way!!

And, yes, Stanley Matthews was also in the forward line that day!


Steve

Hi Steve. I knew professional footballers from past eras had it tough, but I didn't realise they had it that tough!

You say that the maximum wage for footballers was £10 a week in 1947. I think that equates to about £300 a week today. So even with his part time car sales job Tommy Lawton was only on around £600 a week in today's money when he moved to Notts County.

How on earth did it work though. Surely First Division players must have had a higher maximum wage than players in lower divisions? Or would the reality have been that most of Tommy's colleagues at Notts County would have been on a lot less than £10 a week?

Incredible really, what do top players in the Premiership get per week today, and are they really worth that much more than a player like Tommy Lawton, or even Ernie Coleman? And (you can always rely on Another_Lurker not to pull his punches) as a football supporter don't you feel a teeny bit guilty for patronising a sport which is so clearly paying over the odds and thus contributing to the vast inequalities in today's society?

According to his book, Tommy Lawton had extra payments from Notts County. It was believed that receipts from one turnstile were given entirely to Tommy after each home game in cash.I have no idea how much this was but it would have been quite substantial. During his time at Notts he had a very smart sports car and lived in a large house in Mapperley Park ( about half a mile from me )

When he was the manager of Notts he lived in rented accomodation and when sacked was evicted from the property with little notice, and he had a young family at that time.

I have been to his old pub in Lowdham quite a few times, but not when he was running it.

Modern footballers at the same level as Tommy actually get about £80,000 a WEEK. So you won't get Wayne Rooney ( not fit to lace Tommy's boots) running a pub or travelling by bus when he retires.

A_L

That was the MAXIMUM wage-there was no minimum!

So, if you were plying your trade at, say, Rochdale in Div 3 North, you'd probably be on £7-8 a week & £5-6 a week in the close season.

Whereas, as an established first-teamer at, say, Derby County, then established 1st Division stalwarts, you'd be on £10 a week & £7/10s in the close season. I thought the £10 jumped to £12 in 1948 or 1949, but've just looked in the Sunday Chronicle Football Annual 1947-8.

It went up to £12 winter,£10 summer for the start of that season. Minimum wage for a player aged 20 or over was £7 & £5 respectively.

Incidentally, when Jimmy Greaves brought his first car, aged 19, in 1959, the maximum was still in force, so it was a real sensation that someone so young was the first player at First Division Chelsea to own a car. OK, it was only a 1937 Ford that cost him £35, but Greavesie never forgot it.

Wonder what Mr Abrahmovic would have made of that at The Bridge?? John Terry, Chelsea & England captain, is mulling over moving to Man City as we speak. Chelsea are only paying him the pitiful sum of £140,000 a week & he's so motivated by wanting to play for the glorious team of tradition and achievement that is Man City, that the £155,000 a week on offer from their owner, Sheikh Yamoneymaker, is, of course, a mere bagatelle to be trifled with in JT's deliberations.

Steve

And now comes the rather surprising news that Sven Goran Ericsson is to become Director of football at Notts County.

Back to the main topic. I have mentioned another forum which I look at, and the 31 year old IT worker called Nathalie has been back, on a new thread about whether the slipper was preferable to the cane. She has basically ignored the title and mentioned how she was given the ruler at school. On her profile she mentions football as one of her interests, so she would be welcome on here.

Another female describes how she was slippered on the backs of her thighs when wearing a leotard in PE and says it was reeeeeeealllly painful!!!!! She doesn't give her age but leotards sound like a more modern thing.

I will look out for any more posts of interest.

Hi Steve and Declan. I find the money involved in today's football quite amazing. I suppose the excuse is the same as that for banking salaries/bonuses, that they have to pay the going International rate. Even so I think the whole thing is a bit precarious, as witness the Setander (is that the correct name for that TV company?) Scottish Premier League fiasco. Not quite the Premiership I know, but indicative of what could happen. I can't understand why football fans don't give the whole thing a little push to restore some sanity. If you all stopped buying season tickets and paying your Sky Sports subs for a period normality and common sense would quickly be restored!

As Declan points out, we've been well ahead of the news with the extended discussion of Notts County managerships. I wonder if Sven will get the takings from one of the turnstiles in cash at the end of every game? I suspect not, but you never know!

Interesting developments on your other forum Declan. Now the slipper on the thigh, that is a new one on me. And I'd guess that reeeeeeealllly painful!!!!! would be a fair description if it was anything other than a tap! I've no direct comparative experience, but many of those who have (or claim to have) seem to suggest that the cane on the thighs is more painful than the cane on the buttocks. Presumably the same would apply to the slipper.

If I recall correctly data on Corpun.com indicates that in South Korea (I think) schoolboys are supposed to be caned on the buttocks whereas schoolgirls are supposed to be caned on the thighs. Rather surprising if indeed punishment on the thighs is more painful. However, I think the conclusion was that school beatings were pretty endemic there and both sexes got beaten with whatever implement came to hand on whatever portion of their anatomy the teacher could reach, so any sexual bias got evened out!

Ought to check I suppose:

Yes, high school students up to 10 whacks using wooden sticks with a diameter less than 1.5 cm and length less than 60 cm, males buttocks, females thighs, 3rd and 4th paragraphs down here.

Lads mistaken? for girls and caned on the thighs here.

Girls mistaken? for boys and beaten on the buttocks here.

Well, at least Sven is unlikely to feature in any spanking sensations.

Though I would lock up your wives & daughters in Nottingham forthwith!


Steve

Hi Steve. Yes, his reputation does precede him, so to speak, and not just in the football area.

£2m a year, a mere £5480 a day, give or take a few pence. I can't help thinking of Ernie Coleman with his very second hand Austin Cambridge and Tommy Lawton travelling on the bus, but then I presumably don't understand the difference between a Director of Football and a Football Manager!

The money football manager's receive is totally obscene,also the players too.
I wouldn't refuse it though, being honest. If someone is willing to pay you
vast amounts of money you'd be insane to turn it down.

Hi Paul B. You say:

I wouldn't refuse it though, being honest. If someone is willing to pay you vast amounts of money you'd be insane to turn it down.

In view of the standards I once had it saddens me to say that I agree with you.

But then I blame my moral decline on that nice Mr Brown who has reduced the return on my savings to nearly zero. In addition, by cunningly arranging that none of the things I buy appear in his cost of living index (which consists only of those items which are falling in price such as MP3 players and bulk bags of supermarket crisps) he has ensured that my meagre pensions are static and completely unable to cope with the soaring inflation on those things I do have to buy, like proper food and gas and electricity!

As a result, if any football club out there wants to offer me the post of Director of Football, or even humble Manager at any salary over a miniscule £1000 a week you won't have to ask twice. Think of the enormous benefits - a new broom completely untainted by any preconceptions or hang-ups (or even any knowledge ) about the beautiful game! Just post your offer and your contact number below and I'll get straight back to you!