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Male Teachers Punishing Girls

July 4 2009 at 6:39 PM
Declan 

 
There has been a great deal of doubt about the issue of male teachers administering corporal punishment to girls in years gone by.

On another forum dealing with all subjects this is a posting in response to a thread entitled " Acceptable in the 70's" Most of the posts are about non political correctness, fashion etc. but a few raised corporal punishment. In reply to a post about sadistic teachers from a man, a woman wrote the following.

" OMG! When I was 14 we played an April Fool on our typing teacher by hiding in the cupboard till 12 o'clock,she was angry and sent us 7 girls to our Year Head, HE told us off then smacked us on our bums!!! I didn't think anything of it at the time but now I think - THE PERV. And yes there was some sadistic gits who you knew just loved whacking the kids hands with a ruler"

The lady does not give her age but is from the North East of England. She is a prolific poster mainly about TV soaps.

A couple of things though. How did SEVEN girls hide in a cupboard, and I would have thought that 14 year old girls would have realised that it was a bit off for a male teacher to smack their bums .Still, I have no reason to disbelieve her.

Title edited


    
This message has been edited by larry1951 on Nov 18, 2013 6:16 AM


 
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Another_Lurker

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 4 2009, 11:44 PM 

Hi Declan. You are quite right to raise little doubts about the above account, even though you are too much of a gentleman to dismiss the story out of hand.

Anything beginning 'OMG' or 'LOL' is fiction and should be treated as such! On the other hand, anything commencing 'IMHO' a contraction often used by Another_Lurker, bears the stamp of absolute truth! happy.gif

 
 
Emily McPherson

Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 4 2009, 11:59 PM 

Hi Declan, great to hear from you again.

Like all your postings, very interesting and humorous.

I know that this is a long shot, but have you ever considered the possibility that these 7 girls were the same 7 girls who were about to be tawsed by the Scottish senior mistress but somehow managed to plug into the power grid of the nearby nuclear power station thereby creating a very powerful electromagnetic field which resulted in them being transported through time and eventually into that rather large wooden structure.

Also the female teacher who discovered them was a rather low form of life in my opinion. Why go to the trouble of sending them elsewhere when she could have just as easily smacked their bottoms herself. Anyway it was a great joke and those girls should have been congratulated rather than smacked.

I actually believe the story because most people posting on other forums usually do not make stories up about school corporal punishment, especially if they attended school during the time when smacking,even of girls was quite common.

 
 
Amelia

Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 5 2009, 12:55 AM 

Hello Declan: great message.

I disagree with Lurker. The story is believable. What reason would that woman have for telling porkies?

However there was no reason for the girls to be punished since it was all done in good humor. The female teacher should have just laughed it off. Those girls were being very innovative.

Even though those smacks were probably very mild, the non-female teacher should have not touched those girls. Do you think that there is any chance that the woman concerned or any of the other girls might visit this forum and give a more detailed version of the events? Is there any way you can post on that other forum that you mentioned in order to encourage same?

Good bye for now.

Amelia

 
 
Miss Nagano

Male Teachers Smacking Girls

July 5 2009, 2:11 AM 

Greetings Declan from Nagano.

As always you have posted a very entertaining story.

Most of my friends, 90% of whom are British expats, agree with you that the story is highly believable.

Speaking for myself and all of my friends, we were only ever smacked by female teachers, however it is possible that there were some very low forms of non-female life around back in the day, who thought is was okay to smack a girl's bottom.

Those girls should have reported that git straight away. As for the mystery of how seven schoolgirls could fit into a cupboard. Well either it was a very large cupboard or some mysterious forces were at work. We could be talking X-files here.

Never the less it is always good to hear from you. Keep up the outstanding work and sayonara for now.

Your very humble correspondent

Miss Nagano

 
 
Nina

re: Male teachers Spanking Girls

July 5 2009, 8:09 AM 

Excellent posting Declan

However you may have inadvertently opened up a Pandora's box of unexplained phenomena. How did those 7 girls get into the cupboard? Was it the same 7 girls mentioned in a previous posting? Are you psychic? The mystery deepens. This could be a modern day version of "Picnic at Hanging Rock"

 
 
Declan

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 5 2009, 9:21 AM 

I think I have got as much information as possible about the seven girls in the cupboard. I am certainly not going to post anything on that forum about this forum.The lady has in fact been on again, this time about a flasher near her school. She was never flashed herself but some of her friends were ( she does not specify whether they were the same girls from the cupboard). She also thinks that some of her friends were physically abused as children, but it being the 1970s no one mentioned it.

Another amusing tale from the same thread. A chap wrote that boys used to compare the number of stripes on each others bottoms ( from caning)when changing for PE, and the one with the most was considered to be the hardest boy in class. The same boy used to win every week until it dawned on them that he had a naturally striped arse and had never been caned.

I do remember comparing slipper marks with another boy after we had both been slippered in PE, in fact many boys used to do this and were quite proud of it.

 
 
Heather

Male Teachers Spanking girls

July 5 2009, 9:24 AM 

Congratulations Declan. A very informative posting.

I also agree with the other forum members that the story is genuine. I also agree with the statement that the female teacher was a real wowser and should have had a sense of humour about a very funny joke.

As for that Cretan who decided to smack those girls, well don't get me started. As to whether the events described qualify for inclusion in an episode of the X files, well I will leave that for others to judge. Keep up the good work

Heather

 
 
Trainspotter

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 5 2009, 12:09 PM 

Well my wife was given the slipper at her school in the early 80s 2 times she recalls! There was none of the nosense that is somtimes talked about in the way of over the bare bum ect. It was simply a case of bend over and whack whack whack. She was even slippered 1 time in the sceience lab for knocking over one of those bunsen burners. She hated that as it was mixed comp school and the lads really took the micky out of her after the teacher had given her the slipper. Good it happend though as today she is well er ... should we say she dont mind getting her bum smacked happy.gif Each time it was over her skirt with her bending forward grabbing a desk. And each time by a male teacher. From what she has told me the science teacher didnt hit girls as hard as the boys who he would really whack hard but he was in her a words a bit of a perv as he tended to give the slipper more to the girls that the boys. For sure not PC these days and im glad its not allowed any more i would kill any teacher would tried to lay a hand on my kids happy.gif but as a memory of the past especially from my wife I find it funny I suppose ... oh the good old days happy.gif

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 5 2009, 7:58 PM 

Heather said at 09:24 on 05 July 2009:

As for that Cretan who decided to smack those girls, well don't get me started.

I have re-read Declan's post several times and I can see no mention of the male teacher who did the smacking being from Crete. Clearly Heather is trying to add some racial element to the story which was not present in the first instance. And please don't tell me that she was merely misspelling cretin as in that context cretin would not take a capital 'C'. Just what have you got against the inhabitants of Crete Heather? I think we should be told! happy.gif

 
 
prof.n

Re :Male teachers spanking girls

July 5 2009, 10:28 PM 

A.L.

I recall from my exposure to ancient history that Crete was the mythical (?) layer of the Minotaur, in the labyrinth beneath the palace of King Minos wasn't it ? Perhaps that's the link ?

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 5 2009, 11:57 PM 

I think you have it, prof.n! The key to this whole mystery! Crete was indeed the site of the labyrinth of Knossos, the lair of the Minotaur, beneath the palace of King Minos. Further there were seven schoolgirls involved in this escapade. The Athenians, after their defeat by Minos, were required at intervals to provide seven young men and seven young women to be sent into the labyrinth as food for the Minotaur.

Clearly the whole story recounted by the lady on Declan's forum is an allegorical account of this ceremonial sacrifice of young women to the Minotaur. The cupboard represents the labyrinth, the seven schoolgirls the seven sacrificial young Athenian women, the typing teacher represents King Minos, since it was on her account that they went into the cupboard, or rather the labyrinth. Quite why the gender of King Minos was thus transposed is not clear, but this sort of thing is not unusual in allegorical accounts.

And finally the male Head of Year who does the smacking, whom Heather, remedying an omission by the original story teller, informs us was Cretan, is clearly the Minotaur. The smacking obviously represents the young women being consumed by the Minotaur, the fact that it is 'on the bum' being symbolic of the sheer awfulness of such a fate.

 
 
Declan

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 6 2009, 5:16 AM 

A_L prof.n

Brilliant stuff about Crete. I'm afraid my ancient history is a bit limited so I'll take your word for it.

The forum I mentioned has now got a separate thread purely about caning and other forms of punishment. It has attracted about 100 posts in a day. Most are either from the anti smacking brigade or men relating their own experiences of the cane.

One or two are from women with interesting tales to tell. A scottish lady recalls how she was strapped, by a male teacher, aged nine for smudging some artwork. She says the strap was 1/4in thick and had five thongs and really hurt. Her hand was red for the rest of the day. In a later post she refers to the strap as a tawse, though she does not specify if it were a McRostie. She is very much opposed to CP.

On the subject of cupboards, I have just remembered that a girl at my school once hid in a cupboard during a lesson. She would also have been 14 and she got another girl to tell the teacher that she had been hurt in a motor bike accident. The ( female) teacher did not seem unduly concerned for her welfare, probably realising that it was a wind up. The girl soon got bored hiding in a cupboard and emerged, rather embarrassed as no one thought it was funny.I think the girls concerned had to visit the headmistress but I never discovered the outcome.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 6 2009, 8:46 AM 

Hi Declan. An interesting story about the 5 fingered tawse and its effect. I have seen it suggested that for a given weight and width of tawse the pain inflicted increases with the number of fingers into which the striking end is split. I have no idea why this would be so. If it is so one wonders if there is an optimal maximum number of fingers after which efficiency decreases with further division. Sadly we never covered really useful stuff like that in Physics! sad.gif

I would have thought that in classroom behaviour terms concealing oneself in a cupboard during a lesson would have counted as a fairly serious misdemeanour and one assumes the young lady you mention, together with her accomplice would have encountered a fate at least as severe as the seven girls in the labyrinth cupboard in your previous posting.

I don't recall any classmates taking to cupboards, but I do recall a music master fleeing into a storeroom attached to the classroom and refusing to come out. The poor chap was completely unable to keep order and we baited and tormented him with a degree of cruelty that only savages like teen-aged boys are capable of, culminating after several lessons with him taking refuge in the storeroom. He never reappeared at the school after that. I hope he found peace somewhere, perhaps in a girls' school!

And finally, I would remind you that as a member of this estimable Forum it is your duty to seek out and pass on any further items of interest from the new caning thread you mention for the benefit of people like me who are too lazy to find such sources for themselves! happy.gif

 
 
Halfpenny

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 6 2009, 9:21 AM 

Even though those smacks were probably very mild, the non-female teacher should have not touched those girls.

I truly don't understand this and I see it quite a lot here. This belief that male teachers (at least I assume that's what a non-female teacher is in the absence of large numbers of androids) were doing something wrong by inflicting corporal punishment on girls.

I can understand why people might think it's preferable that it be done by a female teacher but there's a difference between it being preferable and there being something wrong if for some reason it doesn't happen.

When I was at school, as I've indicated, canings were handed out by our Headmaster to both boys and girls. I don't think anybody thought there was anything wrong with that. This was the 1990s and we weren't completely naive. We knew there were men who liked school girls in a way that they shouldn't. But we also knew that he wasn't one of them. We trusted him and I've never heard anything to suggest that we were wrong to do so.

We trusted out teachers and because we trusted them we had a good relationship with them. If we hadn't trusted them, I don't see how we could have had that.

In the primary section of the school, the cane wasn't used but there was corporal punishment - smacking and spanking. Most of the time it came from your class teacher. Most of the primary school teachers were women, but there were a few men around and some of them smacked or spanked just as some of the women teachers did. If your class teacher happened to be a man and you did something to get your bottom smacked, he was allowed to do it. And again, I don't think anybody thought anything of it. They were trusted to do the right thing and act in the right way and if they couldn't have been trusted to do that, they wouldn't have been in the classroom in the first place.

I do know that not all teachers are trustworthy - anybody who reads the newspaper sees reports sometimes of teachers who've done the wrong things with kids. But it seems to me you either trust them or you don't. And if you don't trust them, how can they do their job. And if you do trust them, what's the problem?

I can see why it's sensible to have a rule that, where possible, certain things are only done by teachers of the same sex as the student involved although I'm not sure where the line needs to be drawn on that. Until we were in grade three, boys and girls changed for PE and sport together under the supervision of the class teacher and I don't see how there was anything wrong with that either. And even after that, boys were often supervised while changing by women because there wasn't any real choice (I don't recall it ever happening the other way around, but because female teachers outnumbered men, it was probably easier to avoid it happening). I can see why you want to avoid that happening when you can but I don't see why it's wrong when it doesn't work out that way.

And as a woman who was both smacked and caned by 'non-female' teachers as a girl, I am offended on behalf of those men - those good and decent, honest, trustworthy men who did so much for me and for my friends and family - at the suggestion they did something wrong by doing something that was part of their job, and was expected of them and approved of by our parents and, probably, by most of us.

It's not like limiting it to your own sex removes all risk anyway. I thought about becoming a teacher and I'm a spanko. Odds are, I'd never have wound up in a job where I was allowed to do it, but if I was, I'd be more likely to be enjoying myself smacking a girl, than your average man would.

 
 
Declan

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 6 2009, 9:37 AM 

A_L

I will keep you all informed of any further revelations on that caning thread. I would prefer not to give the name of the forum on here for various reasons, not least the fact that fun posters might infiltrate it. Most of the posts seem genuine and it would be better to keep it that way

The girl who was tawsed aged nine almost got another strapping at senior school. The chemistry teacher was intending to tawse the whole class but agreed to let off those who had done well in a recent test. This girl got 75% so she avoided it, but about 20 others did get it, including girls and from a male teacher.

 
 

Another_Lurker

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 6 2009, 12:12 PM 

Hi Declan, I knew I could rely on you! happy.gif You are very wise to keep the identity of the other forum to yourself. If we can keep the 'fun' poster infestation confined to this estimable Forum there is at least the chance that it will run out of non-male names and thus destroy itself!

 
 
prof.n

Re: Male Teachers...a plea for equality

July 6 2009, 3:57 PM 

Well having returned from my excursion into the ancient world, -oh! and before going further, mea culpa for my last posting ...of course the Minotaur, doesn't live in a cake ( unless he had a very sweet tooth)....layer should of course have been lair......I promise to post and copy it 100 times......!!!!.- Still it does go to prove my Greek master had a point when he said all the world's stories, and all life are contained in Greek tradition.........

Halfpenny makes some very good points. , and ones with which I can empathise. However they stretch the topic thread, but I beg indulgence to explore them a little....
.
As those who have read many of my postings will know my school had the reverse problem ( although imposed not by choice, but by circumstance)..- teenage boys being caned by a woman. She found no problem , of course, given her background in the States ( which I will comment on further in a moment), but the School did find it 'advisable' to offer all boys the chance to be caned by man if they preferred.

To my surprise many did......despite a clear groundswell of opinion that within the 'management team' a rough approximation as to those who were allowed to cane, she was probably the fairest, and certainly the most thorough in listening and investigating. both sides of an issue. Her punishments were never given without explanation, or in anger. These were not my views , but those held generally in the school.. So the unwillingness to embrace this aspect of equal opportunity always puzzled me.

As I said she hailed from stint teaching in Texas ( she was a dual national , with US academic qualifications,) ending up as a VP before coming to the UK. Apparently in Texas in the early 70's there were no hang ups about who paddled. It was a co-ed High School system, and women were as comfortable paddling boys as girls, However it seems that over the last 30 years, two things have happened there. Paddling, where permitted, has become closely regulated, and certainly the women dealing with girls has become , certainly from some posts on this forum , a virtually routine assumption. Perhaps American Way can help whether this is reciprocated today (ie male-male only ) or is the choice with the teacher/student.

Of course we all see the sexual issue, but I take halfpenny's point, it is almost insulting to the teaching profession to assume sexual motivation, after all isn't that even more likely to be the case in terms of same sex relationships in the hothouse environment of boarding schools? In any case by the 70's here no boy would be caned in a state of undress ( any approximation to this would occur in the boarding houses at night, so again more likely to be subject of same sex abuse.....)I admit there is a greater problem with 'spanking' (UK idiom), but this is in respect of young children , and it always seemed to me to be more sensible in those schools where a mild implement was used , which eliminated much of the problem .

Of course there is the issue of size and weight, but if either paddling or caning is done properly it is not weight that determines the pain, and anyone who thinks the issue is just one of pure size / brute force , isn't fit to do the job!. Again in my case everyone recognised that our deputy caned as hard as the men , as a squash player ( accuracy) and a hard driving tennis player as well she more than made up for not being built like a prop forward.

It seems to me that there is a good case for equality , as has been made in the past by Dr. Dominum Indeed it seems to me to be the only starting point in a modern society. Of course we should allow for individual choice of same sex if desired by the student , as indeed I believe in many probably most cases corporal punishment should be one option out of a range of available punishments . Parents should have an opt out in state schools , and also one in which the child's view should when old enough be sought and given due consideration.

It seems to me that in many ways the arguments for corporal punishment in the UK were substantially lost though concentration on the exceptions .physical and sexual abuse, combined with an unwillingness by heads to give parents in the state sector the right to opt out (for fear of diminishing their personal power), the larger debate on punishment and reward , positive and negative reward systems etc., was sidetracked.

Funnily enough the real lesson from this has not yet been learned, and part of the reason for the inexorable march of indiscipline in our schools doesn't depend on the cane or not the cane, because despite one's views on the efficacy of this approach, there are many other disciplinary techniques which can succeed : but rather on HOW the debates are handled. The opponents of the pc brigade haven't learned yet how to mount a successful defensive campaign, so soon ..bye bye all sanction except the nuclear option of exclusion/expulsion.........

Obviously the abolitionists will disagree, but it seems to me that we should whenever possible use a mixed economy approach, no one answer suits every child or situation., and we should not use tecniques where there is good evidence that in a particular case it may do more harm than good,but we should aim to do the best for each .

 
 
American Way

Re: Male Teachers Spanking Girls

July 7 2009, 12:40 AM 

here

In the states it is not all that unusual for a female principal to paddle a boy but less so on the secondary school level and even less so than in the days of coeducational Catholic schools run by Sisters. This may prove worth persusing on the issue of gender, class and education. Moderation in all things including moderation is the American Way.

 
 
prof.n

Male teachers a plea for equality.

July 7 2009, 2:19 AM 

American Way,

Thanks for the post and the link, which raises some interesting points , in a relatively structuralist framework.

I'm particularly interested in the transference, or I guess the author would prefer transposition, of the maternal role for women teachers into the classroom, but the concentration on the predatory role for men, rather than a paternalistic model . The boys socialise better in this framework than the girls, who are always recognised as potential sexual actors in a way boys are not.


If you reverse the framework, and place the ideological structures and processes of authority and punishment in female hands the authority 'cues' change , the existing process loses its essential fluidity ,, and I would agree transmutes into a far less democratic form because the formal structure of power is more crystallised in the individual ( feminisation) than in the institution( traditionally patriarchal). . In a sense then in a such a situation boys may benefit from female teaching in that , if nothing else it challenges the set role plays and preconceptions of the male patterning of education.. For example , a boy facing an interview the Head or Deputy for a disciplinary infraction, probably has a fairly good idea of the line the interview will follow, the boundaries not to cross and the verbal and non verbal clues as to the outcome. Replace the male with a female and the structure and function of the process changes.

Even in my school the number of boys who went into an interview expecting a certain line to be followed, only to find themselves completely unprepared for a less covert, less frontal assault on them , but a framework of questioning which depended on negotiation and mediation , which completely baffled and defeated them

Equally I know not only from the school example where the female deputy head used to become frustrated that boys generally seemed unable to read her body language. and other non verbal clues, which is a major problem I have seen this replicated in Schools and Universities from that day to this. Boys and frequently Male students will ride straight through a veritable barrage of non verbal warnings , and are then , surprised and even angry or hurt, when the women in charge sees their actions as disruptive or unacceptable. Essentially they are less intuitive and tuned into different social frequencies. For many years my deputy in university management was a lady I use to her annoyance joke that she had to be my director of intuition and feelings, if we were to make rounded decisions.

Certainly my first teaching post in a school was with an independent girls school teaching to the old 'Special' level and Oxbridge exam papers in the upper sixth. My work colleagues at the University joked it must be a really cushy number ( remember I was only five or six years older than than the girls in the class)...in reality it was quite daunting, as my non verbal cues were effectively scrutinised every minute of every lesson,

It took time to break down barriers and ratchet down the social 'threat' level to one where learning could effectively commence. Without that trust, which actually involves a sustained pattern of predictability between both the students and teacher , there is no basis for the learning culture to take hold , and predominate the social relations of the classroom..

So even in the US system which is massively committed in the public system to co-ed , there is a problem of masculine and feminine learning cultures and ideological structures which flow from that. . Boys will on this model accept a female authority model better than the reverse with girls.....but even in the case of boys there is still a real learning gulf between their experience and role models against the feminisation of the eduction process
Dr, Dominum of course has raised this issue with the role of female year tutors and the equality laws. It would be interesting to know whether or not these teachers adopt their management styles from their essential socialisation ,and thus define their roles personally, or whether the school ideological framework , which I expect is quite patriarchal , dominates the actors and prescribes their roles.

And now, as promisedm I'll not digress further from the topic.........

 
 
 
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